Um wow this is one way to indicate you are going for it!
The Angels traded prospects Ky Bush and Edgar Quero to the Chicago White Sox for starting pitcher Lucas Giolito and Lefty reliever Reynaldo Lopez.
Giolito is a RHP with 131 Ks in 121 innings this season. He was an All Star in 2019.
He turned 29 on July 2 – he is three days older than Shohei Ohtani.
Lopez is a league average reliever (103 OPS+) this season. He has K’d 52 in 42 IP. He too is 29 years old. 1994 is well-represented on the Los Angeles Mound of Anaheim.
Giolito and Lopez are both free agents after this season.
Bush and Quero were top prospects in a barren Angels farm system but this is about getting Ohtani to the mound in October. This is about Perry Minasian telling Buster Olney to skip the in-game dugout interviews. This is about wondering if the Yankees are wasting the career of Gerrit Cole and wondering to where he will be traded, can you jump on the Bronx dugout and corner Aaron Boone and ask him, huh? Can you Mister ESPN senior citizen named “Buster”.
This is about 2023 not 2026.
Biggest headache now is Giolito wore uniform #27 for the Pale Hose and that ain’t happening with the Halos. What IS happening is a legit #2 arm making 10-12 starts down the stretch for the Angels, a lefty arm for an inning here and there and a team totally on all systems go from here on out.
Maybe Giolito will try to sign with whatever team Ohtani picks as a free agent.
At first it seems that we overpaid by a lot. But consider this, we could’ve traded the same two to Oakland and got that starter & reliever with years left of team control, then face Quero and Bush in our own division for years to come (Until they were traded away in pre-arbitration years).
In effect, Quero is blocked by O’Hoppe & Thaiss and that wasn’t going to open up any time soon. Gio was also a victim of pitching for a terrible team.
Overpaid? Yes, a lot, not really. The White Sox got some MiLB talent for rentals, there were worse trades to be made for the Halos. It would be nice to shore up another reliever, like a set-up/8th inning guy.
Could be in the top 5 worse Angel trades of all time but time will tell.
It will take time to tell if it is the worst deal of all time, but determining whether it was a bad/good deal will only take until the end of the season.
What’s the current Top 5? How does this one compare to #6?
Quero being blocked and eventually being a Rule 5 would be terrible. We’re fine at catcher and besides I believe we have another catcher of note working his way up.
I’m late to finding out because I went straight from Oppenheimer to bed last night and straight up died, but there is no amount of good Ky Bush and Edgar Quero (who I was excited about) can do that will make me feel good if we hold onto those pieces and don’t buy and do our absolute damnedest to make the playoffs.
We’ve been needing to tear it all down for years and our half-assed attempts at soft rebuilding have caused a decade of woes for us fans. Get rid of those guys. Throw it all at the hopes of one big year. Then, at the end of it all, move EVERYONE by any means necessary.
Finally, you pick up the broken pieces and you start over from scratch, creating the juggernaut that all these other teams have created.
If you’re of a different opinion than me and you still believe that top heavy lineups and starting rotations that Arte won’t spend beyond are the way to go or if you’re even just a sentimentalist, you STILL make this move– but for Ohtani’s sake.
I repeat, there isn’t really a defensible reason to hold onto these guys, overpay or not.
Quero might pan out, but his numbers at AA don’t jump off the page and he’s not considered a defensive-minded catcher. I’m okay with pulling the trigger on Quero for a rental with O’Hoppe on the team. Bush has potential and may pan out, but again his numbers aren’t jumping off the page this year (well, they are but for the opposite reasons). I think the deal works well for both for the Angels. Hopefully Giolito and Lopez have a solid end-of-year.
Agreed.
The tear down is coming if/when Ohtani walks. You’re all going to have new prospects and sell-offs not far from now. The time for that was not when Ohtani is on the roster and the team has at least some chance at the postseason.
I think many people have provided many defensible reasons for days… so I disagree with your last statement.
There are lots of different opinions, and we can see the direction that the team is going for now, so let’s hope things work out and enjoy the rest of this season.
Eh, I’m always going to hold back on any excitement from any signing/trade just because these rarely pay off for them it seems. Obviously, I hope it works out for the best, but restraint in excitement is the move here for me.
By definition, deadline trades are risky and may or may not prove to be worth it in the long run – the point – is that the Angels are making a clear declaration that they’re attempting to win a WS this season. Are the odds a bit long? Perhaps, but this team has been irrelevant for the better part of a decade.
These are potentially exciting times. Enjoy the ride
Slotting in at #2 going on Friday night is five days rest for him.
Exciting move. However, I thought Quero and Bush were supposed to the good. How iare they the compensation for a rental of two guys? BTW I don’t really think Giolito all that much. He’s serviceable right now. If truly healthy, he has stuff. But I’m unsure he has been truly healthy since a few years back. I imagine the FO checked that. But wow.
Strap in boys. This is gonna be a ride.
Silseth or Giolito vs Toronto on Friday?
I’ve been sidelined for the last 5 hours with work, etc.
All I can say is F*CK YES !! The team is going for it and they’ve essentially taken the exact approach that some of us “gamblers” have been advocating for.
NICE.
One of the more significant pieces of news here is that this pushes the Angels into luxury tax penalty territory, which also pushes back the compensation pick for QO Ohtani to a pick after the fourth round next year. No longer a top 100 pick for Ohtani.
It’s really all or nothing now.
Yeah Arte really is going all in on trying to persuade Ohtani that he’s “committed to winning” at all costs. And like you’ve mentioned, the farm has and is in shambles, so it’s about time Arte finally makes a decision to act on one extreme. I for sure do not think this is going to be the last major move Perry makes. He’s putting all of his chips on the table.
What does Perry have left to trade from the farm system now?
This was his “big splash”.
Would not much of anything be an acceptable answer?
Perry makes. He’s putting all of his chips on the table.
A reason why, in spite of a very good TDL season last year, he’s not a good enough GM seemingly to turn this franchise around. As for Arte….. Arte is Arte. Somewhere in the recesses of his mind, he must believe that Shohei will forego his burning desire to play in a world series, to be with this team that is likely years away from being a realistic contender.
Unless the White Sox are still paying parts of the money due to these guys so the Angels don’t fall into that compensation zone.
It’s Arte. The only thing predictable is the schizophrenic unpredictability of it all.
I don’t know about you, but i’m damned excited to get that fourth round pick. He might be a serviceable player. I’m not sure why everyone is so excited with a 15% chance of making the playoffs, and depleting an already poor farm system.
Anyway…….
I really feel like Arte is going to sell if it all burns down. He is not going to want to own a team with old Trout, Rendon and no Ohtani that can no longer avoid a rebuild.
So…silver linings,
BFD Poor Arte will have to pay an extra $1,000,000 in Competitive balance taxes?
This is more symbolic than anything.
No – poor Angels future because the compensation pick for Ohtani leaving is significantly less valuable.
My eyes are on Trout. Honestly, I will forever love him, but if he comes back cold down the stretch then I’ll have much less sympathy for this “wasted” narrative. He’s got to know this is going to be one of his best and possibly only shots for a while, and we’re going to need all hands on deck. MVP Trout could single handedly change the tenor of this team. There’s no doubt he wants to win as much as Ohtani, so prove it.
Good trade
?
I Bury Paul
McCartney?
McAnulty
was trying to post a GIF, but obviously am too technologically challenged lol.
Stoked that we are going for it! with a once in a lifetime player and our long time fav, Bush will likely flame out and quero be another average catcher. I posted a while back about going through my old baseball america top 10 collection to un-hoard my house, and as I burned them reading about all these top prospects who were so touted that five years later had mostly never even made the bigs. . . farm systems are assets to achieve a goal, and Sho time is the greatest player ever, , Trade it all and come what may. . We are all ready for something special so let’s roll the dice!
We are trying to make the playoffs with Ohtani AND Trout.
Who the f-ck cares about Edgar Quero and Ky Bush lol ?
BLOW UP THE FARM, PERRY
I think he already did . With this trade our farm ranking goes from 23rd to 33rd
Yes, beat me to it.
The math ain’t mathin there…
He just did. Next year we will be at the bottom.
They already are with this trade.
https://www.fangraphs.com/prospects/farm-system-rankings
An angle here that I haven’t seen discussed is that if this fails to get us to the postseason and Ohtani walks, a rebuild and tear down that recoups some of these prospects is way more likely anyway. We gave up Quero and Bush to go down swinging and play what might be our last meaningful August and September games for the foreseeable future.
Oh and you get to watch Babe Ruth in person for a few more months if you care about stuff like that.
“Oh and you get to watch Babe Ruth in person for a few more months if you care about stuff like that.”
I care a lot about that lol. The best player ever is on my favorite team (for maybe the last time) — of course you go for it.
I am unable to understand how that POV isn’t universally shared amongst the fanbase. Maybe I’m the crazy one huh?
I am in agreement with you. I’m in favor of this trade and trying to win baseball games and I am appreciating Ohtani to the max this year *because* I know his time here is likely running out.
There is value to a lot of fans of prolonging his run as an Angel during a ridiculous MVP season. Having the team play meaningful games adds to that a lot.
BTW Lopez is no slouch. In his last 8 games hes allowed No Earned Runs, a 1.1 WHIP but an an OPS of only .427 Among The teams hes had success against are Detroit, Toronto & Atlanta so I expect Phillip to put him to work right away.
Devenski had a nice scoreless run too
Devenski had what – a good month, month and a half run?
If Reynaldo could do that, through say, August, it would still be a huge boost to the pen.
I know it is a lot to give up but I look at it this way: having an extra wild card spot made it so the Angels would be buyers, but that same extra WC meant you have to overpay to make a deal over all the other teams with similar aspirations.
For what it’s worth, the chisox Reddit community loves this trade. Multiple posters are saying they’d have traded both for just Quero
They’re right – Quero for the two would have been an arguably fair trade.
Adding Bush is the overpay, imo.
Fair in a vacuum or in a trading market where supply is low and demand is high?
Not saying I don’t care we surrendered both….but these were imperfect prospects coming from a horrible system. It seems like another team with more quality prospect inventory could easily top Quero alone.
The Angels have to overpay to get pieces like Giolito. They rarely “win” trades.
Is overpaying at the deadline exclusive to the Angels though? I feel like we see it every year? Teams deal real prospects for relievers, for rental sluggers etc.
Not exclusive to the Angels – but I also don’t get why it hurts fan so much to admit when their team overpays. This is a desperation play, but sometimes low-odds bets pay out.
I think the clearsighted view here is that the Angels overpaid b/c they had to, it’s a huge risk, and the odds are against the team, but they’ve decided to go all-in this year, because they feel Ohtani is a historically unique player (not untrue), and maybe they pull off a miracle.
But if they don’t beat the odds, the downside is steep.
Nobody is hurt here. Just pointing out your critique assumes an unrealistic environment that never is impacted by market dynamics.
Markets go up and down. Especially so at trade deadlines. The trade deadline is the definition of desperate time for buying teams trying to maximize whatever their opportunity is.
I know for sure that the Angels won the Syndegaard-Moniak trade.
Marsh-O’Hoppe trade is also arguable.
True that – but I can also guarantee you that Minasian (or anyone else for that matter) hardly believed this was the Moniak they’d get. Moniak had no value when they traded for him.
Sometimes lottery tickets pay out.
Another point on this: it’s not a great comp, because the Angels were the sellers in the Moniak trade. They weren’t giving up prospects – like Chicago in this trade, they were attempting to maximize prospect return for a short-term rental.
I’m almost always in favor of getting prospects in return for rental players. I thought Moniak for Thor was a fair return at that time.
So it kind of proves the opposite point – the Angels were the White Sox in that trade – Philly gave up on Moniak after a quarter-season of MLB plate appearances. The Phillies made it to the WS, but I don’t think Noah and his 97 ERA+ for their team was the deciding factor in that run.
Same. White Sox probably had wood for Quero. Cease was the arm to get.
Cease is WAY too good to be traded for Quero and Bush lol
So, you throw in another piece !
Piece for Cease !
Get it ?
Could we get that piece from the Dodgers pipeline tho ? You know, an actual top prospect haha
Yeah, Cease is signed through 2025 and you need a No.1 when Shohei bolts
The local prospect guys get butt hurt when we trade then away but based on all the reading I’ve done, both Quero and Bush had question marks. Edgar has questions about his durability long term at C based on his frame and his defense, mainly pop time if I remember correctly. He’s a bat first prospect. He definitely would not overtake O’Hoppe until 2030. Next, Ky Bush has been injured all year and maybe I’m wrong but he had control issues? It hurts to lose him, but a couple of weeks ago I read on this site that our farm sucks and fangraphs says these guys are all marginal guys in the 4th tier sans O’Hoppe and Neto.
Bush has been back for two months. He had oblique issues early in the season, but has made eight straight starts, some quite promising.
TT, I remember you were a fan of the Bush pick when it was made. I’m sure you still had some level of attachment to his prospect profile.
Ultimately, if he turns out as anything more than a #3-4 starter then credit to him and the White Sox.
Trading away Dana, Albright, Kochanowicz would hurt much more imo
He was good value at #45. That was only two years ago – he’s 22 at AA, and only a year or two away from making MLB impact. It’s not emotional – really the opposite.
I mean, this is a team that doesn’t value comprehensive farm development, so I get it. They’re “all in”. It’s not a system with a five year plan – hasn’t been in ages.
Sure, but I was curious about your current projection for Bush.
The major league team is competing for a playoff spot and needed a legitimate SP added to the rotation. I’m not up in arms about trading away 6 years of what Bush could be for what Giolito is, alternatively quite satisfied with it.
If you are of the belief that we should’ve traded Ohtani and kept all the prospects, I get it.
I think Perry is trading what he needs to to go all-in this season, despite any future risks. The Angels win a lot of “moments” at the expense of long-term franchise health, so it feels very familiar. I understand the fan enthusiasm, but it’s not how teams building for sustained success operate.
Bush will almost certainly find his way into an MLB bullpen, and perhaps the backend of an MLB rotation in the next two years. I think he has 2/3 ceiling – but there’s no guarantee of that, and he might also become an up-and-down starter, and much will depend on health and FB refinement.
The Angels currently have a 15% chance of cracking the playoffs, and are battling six other teams at the moment to try to get WC3 and win a one-game contest in the most high-volatility matchup in the game.
As I’ve said, it’s a low-odds bet. I don’t make many of these sorts of bets in my own life, but I can see how a team that hasn’t won a playoff game in over a decade would make a bet like this.
Wild cards are now 3 games series. Which makes going all in (especially on a front of the rotation starter) much more rationale than the old 1 game crap shoot,
2021 Braves: 52W-54L after July 31.
Fair point. I’m still reliving 2021. But “much more rational” might be pushing it.
*If* they can beat TOR, NYY, BOS, SEA and CLE, they can try to win a short series – still crazy volatile, but at least two chances to win!
We’ll know a lot more a week from now.
I am not sure about Toronto watching them almost sweeping Dodgers and really scared of Mariners now with Julio Rodriguez appearing to return to form, but Angels got ‘reasonable chance’ at MFYankees, Red
Sux, and Guardians. We still have 6 games against the Rays, who are really scuffling. Glad we did not face them before ASG, but the Angels are locked and ready to win 5-6 games against them in August and September. I might be crazy to say this but I sheepishly predict 2-3 WC teams from AL West.
BTW, not that I am complaining, but why don’t the Angels play the Rays 7 times, when we will have played all other AL East teams 7 times. Is that because Angels play the Dodgers 4 times while playing other NL teams 3 times? It is unbalanced. Not quite like NBA.
But most not so much.
We disagree on Bush – I get that. I suspect we’re looking at different things.
Hey, hey HEY! What is with this reasonableness? Don’t you know that you have to agree with everything or else be flaming each other???? 😇
I don’t hate the trade, but my biggest fear over the last couple weeks was that they’d go on a run against mediocre to bad teams, convince themselves they had a chance, keep Shohei at the deadline, then run into good teams. After tomorrow, I think 21 of the next 24 game are against teams in playoff position. This trade and the decision to keep Shohei could look really bad really quickly.
The question is really whether the compensation picks for Shohei and Giolito will yield better prospects than Quero and Bush. Other downside is that a bunch of the teams in playoff position also have stacked farm systems, and the yield for Ohtani could have been significant. The double header tomorrow is huge now.
Of course, the other upside is that we get to enjoy Shohei for a couple more months.
As far as I know, you do not receive draft compensation for mid year acquisitions
There are no compensation picks for Giolito, and the Shohei pick will fall in the 70-80 range, so no – Bush himself was selected at #45, and Quero is a top 100 prospect.
Sam Blum couldn’t even hit send on his most recent Blummer of an article crying about Ohtani being off the market before this trade got announced.
Fuggit guys sports are supposed to be fun. Let’s just root for the Angels, appreciate Ohtani for 2 more months and if it crashes we all go down together.
All the good will Blum built up with me this season went away with that article.
Weird behavior from a journalist. His feud with Arte and Angels PR team is seeping into his work.
I know right? Is he supposed to be a beat writer or a columnist? It seems like he clearly hates this team.
There is no question his writing took a slant after they singled him out for being negative. He went from basically a neutral writer who made honest and accurate criticism to a guy that is searching for criticism even in 50/50 situations.
He’s an activist…I could see him gluing his had to the pavement in front of Arte’s car.
Sam Blum turned into TJ Simers real quick.
Ouch!
And The might just be an insult to TJ Simers
Never liked him
Sam has been a bit jaded but it’s refreshing to me to not have another Roger Lodge, Gubi or Fletcher.
Sammy is concerned. I will X (formerly twitter) him Remember that Sho No Trade Before Deadline Magic Number is still 2. With that message, he will sleep better tonight in Detroit.
Refreshing in what way? He tries to be a contrarian but he comes off as a dumb ass.That article he wrote a a month go tracking David Fletcher in SLC just so he could complain about the organization all the while Fletcher is getting called up was some weakness journalism.
I know the Athletic is probably not doing well financially since The NY Times acquisition and is cost cutting mode but compared to some really good writers over there we definitely got stuck with the D team
BTW Why do you think Jeff Fletcher is partisan? he typically calls it straight. Actually tries to get trusted Off The Record background ( which is even harder now with the COVID restrictions) and I thought his 3. part expose n what was wrong with the Angels Org during the last off season was thorough and well done .
Refreshing in that not one of those guys I mention would dare say anything negative. It’s way too obvious in that you know you won’t get answers on the record. I just go along with it by mostly ignoring.
Surprised Langston has not been pushed out for his analysis that does not always put the organization in the best light.
I’m not a Twitter guy so I don’t read everything Blum writes but he challenges the process and I’m ok with that.
I can buy into that. Either it works or will be a huge giant explosion of a failure. Either we are walking on the moon or the spaceship explodes on the launch pad. It’s gambling but it’s not my money and I have no control so might as well just sit back and watch.
If the Angels explode, Apple with the assistance of David Beckham and Masayoshi Son would be happy to take the ownership at $3 billion. Everyone wins.