LA Angels Thursday News Crash: Trigger Warning

This is the list of the Angels 30 top prospects in 2023 according to MLB. Here is the overall top 100. Edgar Quero and Logan O’Hoppe made the list. Bleacher Report gives the Angels a grade of C for their draft picks. Now A-Rod has joined the “trade Ohtani” bandwagon. He wants to throw Trout in as well.

The Astros are coming to town. J.P. France is expected to pitch Friday. He held Ohtani hitless in three at bats the last time they faced off.

Rob Manfred met with the Mayor of Oakland and they talked about stadium deals for the Athletics. The Athletics, for their part, have formally begun the application process to move to Las Vegas. On the topic of Manfred, he hopes to be re-elected as MLB Commissioner. He says Pete Rose will remain under his lifetime ban notwithstanding MLB’s new relationship with gambling entities. The MLBPA wants to tinker around with the pitch clock rule in the off season.

Here is a list of the players who have benefited the most so far by the ban on the shift.

Anthony Bemboom just accepted his outright assignment with the Orioles. The White Sox acquired Mike Mayers from the Kansas City Royals while the Dodgers acquired Tyson Miller from the Brewers. The Mariners claimed Adam Oller off waivers from the Athletics and sent him to Triple-A. Matt Bush is back with the Rangers now. They inked a minor league deal.

There was some discussion of this in comments yesterday but, for those who haven’t seen it, here is the new Yankees uniform patch.

Photo credit: Rex Fregosi

163 Comments
Newest
Oldest Most Voted
Inline Feedbacks
View all comments
DowningDude
Legend
8 months ago

Cobb / Ohtani:
Forgot I had captured Alex Cobb’s comical reaction to Shohei hitting a dinger in Yankee stadium:
comment image

DowningDude
Legend
8 months ago
Reply to  DowningDude

I caption this as “unbelievable (shaking head) …. what the Fxxx? (raises hand)”

Kiyotchan
Super Member
8 months ago

I am more than ever relieved that Sho did not take part in HRD.
https://www.charlotteobserver.com/sports/mlb/charlotte-knights/article277225753.html

Last edited 8 months ago by Kiyotchan
GrandpaBaseball
Legend
8 months ago

Jake Marisnicks, remember him, has signed with the Dodgers. He was on the cheating 2017 Asstros, short memories the Dodger brass has.

DowningDude
Legend
8 months ago

How can we forget – he leveled our catcher – Lucroy

Kiyotchan
Super Member
8 months ago
Reply to  DowningDude

This is the right YouTube clip.
https://youtu.be/2PRPtB5iEds
Noe Ramirez probably should have been ejected. It was interesting to see that Marisnicks was trying to calm down Houston bench. He succeeded in manipulating the occasion to avoid any unnecessary injuries from brawl.

Last edited 8 months ago by Kiyotchan
DowningDude
Legend
8 months ago
Reply to  Kiyotchan

Jake was calming down his bench because he accepted that he was due to get hit. Marisnick was ok in my book afte that. He also mentioned that he hit Lucroy because he saw Lucroy moving as the ball was arriving and decided to go to his left – ended up right into Lucroy. He gambled wrong and went straight in. Tough play. It’s in the past now. Turn the page.

Kiyotchan
Super Member
8 months ago
Reply to  DowningDude

Totally agreed. I don’t think he is a dirty player. He plays hard, not meaning to hurt the other. He was also suspended for two games, and I don’t think he appealed.

Angelz4ever
Super Member
8 months ago
Reply to  Kiyotchan

I agree, in the moment I was pizzed, but as a former catcher, you go to certain places as the throw is coming in and you know you’re heading for a collision where you are in an disadvantageous position. It wasn’t done intentionally, Marisnick didn’t load up and actually foolishly lead with his face and head.

Last edited 8 months ago by Angelz4ever
Angelz4ever
Super Member
8 months ago
Reply to  Kiyotchan

I was watching this game and much props to Marisnick. He got payback as he rung Lucroy’s bell and had the class to tell his bench to throttle it back.

GrandpaBaseball
Legend
8 months ago
Reply to  DowningDude

I could not remember Lucroy’s name, thank you.

Cowboy26
Legend
8 months ago

Nor could he after that collision.

DowningDude
Legend
8 months ago
Reply to  Cowboy26

comment image

DowningDude
Legend
8 months ago
Reply to  DowningDude

I made this gif – same game as the Marisnick hit.

Angelz4ever
Super Member
8 months ago
Reply to  Cowboy26

Lucroy: “Someone answer that phone!”

Simba
Trusted Member
8 months ago
Reply to  DowningDude

Perhaps a coincidence, but Lacroy’s numbers dropped significantly after that play in Chicago, and then he had virtually zero playing time after that in subsequent years.

Kiyotchan
Super Member
8 months ago

This is the first of probably 4 or 5 installments regarding NPB and MLB gentleman agreement (that they will not ‘steal’ each other’s players) and international baseball draft. Today, being a slow day in baseball, I thought it is timely as I look forward to November, when NPB post their players for next season. Yoshinobu Yamamoto at age 25 is the best pitcher, who is rumored to be posted and garner at least $200MM x 7 year. Some American analysts liken him to DeGrom.

I have discovered additional elements to posting system of NPB players to MLB.
https://bleacherreport.com/articles/1831683-mlb-npb-japan-posting-system-explaining-rules-format-and-bid-process

-Before 2014, the highest bidder to a player’s NPB club had the exclusive right to negotiate a contract with the player in 30 days. (Red Sox paid $51MM posting fee for Dice-K Matsuzaka, who flopped after 2 years of moderate success while Yankees paid $26 MM for Kei Igawa, who only won 2 games in 2 seasons.)

-Presently, the maximum bid is $20MM, and the player has several best bids to consider from instead of just one MLB team. This change was supported by both MLB owners and MLBPA, who felt that more money would be available for American and Latino players.

-Posting fee does not go against CBT.

I am guessing here but all MLB teams who were interested in Sho probably bid the maximum $20 MM including Angels. He initially whittled down to 7 finalists, Dodgers, Cubs, Padres, Giants, Mariners, Rangers, and, of course, the eventual pick Angels.

This still does not answer why he selected the Angels, but it does explain why he said during ASG media Q&A that he was not an FA in 2018 when he came from Nippon Ham Fighters.

Biggiswrth
Trusted Member
8 months ago

I got bored at work today…. roast me and this.

Screenshot 2023-07-10 194626.png
Fansince1971
Legend
8 months ago
Reply to  Biggiswrth

Don’t hate it but I doubt the Rays would be in on Ohtani bc $$$$ and unlikely that he would sign there.

Last edited 8 months ago by Fansince1971
Jeff Joiner
Editor
Legend
8 months ago
Reply to  Biggiswrth

I’m writing an article featuring a few of the ones already posted and probably a couple of my own.

Turk's Teeth
Editor
Super Member
8 months ago

Like others, I’m pretty astonished that Schanuel got $5M+ (the most the Angels have ever paid a draftee, btw).

It makes little sense. I usually generate my “consensus rankings” report for draft prospects, based on a composite average of 15-20 prospect media reports. That composite would have put Schanuel around #26 – basically worth ~$3M.

It’s a marked overpay to give him full slot. I do think he would have fallen into the 20s if the Angels hadn’t selected him.

Hurston Waldrep, who was ranked as high as #6 by Fangraphs, and had a composite average of roughly #11, was paid just under $3M today by the Braves. That Schanuel would get $2.3M more from the Angels than the Braves paid Waldrep is something else.

steelgolf
Super Member
8 months ago
Reply to  Turk's Teeth

That would be the same Braves that make the playoffs. Boy, Perry is really betting the farm on this kid, hope it turns out okay for them.

FungoAle
Super Member
8 months ago
Reply to  Turk's Teeth

Uninspiring moves by Minasian this draft

tanana40
Super Member
8 months ago
Reply to  Turk's Teeth

A few days ago, your analysis of the how the “win now” mentality impacts the Angels’ farm system was so helpful. It it is pretty clear that at the MLB level, we are always trying to compete because we had Trout and Pujols (and Hamilton in 2013/2014) and now Trout and Ohtani. It seems that in the pre-Minasian years, the organization just had bad scouting or did not care about the farm system for many years. I was hoping that the last three years things had changed (with Neto’s arrival and the trade for O’Hoppe and perhaps some bullpen pieces that have been called up). But instead we are rushing players and drafting to “win now” instead of developing a deep farm system which a playoff team needs. While I like Schanuel, I thought that they drafted him partially to save on the slot money and then they could use the savings for latter picks. But that was not even the case. I also like Rios but much of the draft after that seemed like we were throwing darts at board and hoping that we find a good player or two.

Anyway, thanks for your analysis.

Angelstan
Trusted Member
8 months ago
Reply to  tanana40

Perry is trying to win now also because Perry might not have a job next year or the season after. He is auditioning to remain the GM whether the team is sold or not. So things tend to get slanted.

BannedInLA
Super Member
8 months ago
Reply to  Turk's Teeth

These questions and debates are eerily similar to NFL draft debates.

Overdrafting or not drafting according to “value” real or perceived.

The question ultimately comes down to players panning out in the bigs or flaming out.

What do you think his ceiling is or is there a comp that you like?

Thanks

Last edited 8 months ago by BannedInLA
Kiyotchan
Super Member
8 months ago

Two positives. No Yordan Alvarez or Tempura tomorrow. Tempura gave up a solo homerun to Alvarez in the opening game of 2022, which led to Angels defeat.
https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2023/07/yordan-alvarez-jose-urquidy-to-begin-rehab-assignments.html

Twebur
Legend
8 months ago

Safe to assume Angel fans would be at the bottom of the league in fan defense, because Angel Fan and trAdition. Besides the team doesn’t catch well, why should we?

Banana Ball Rule 8: If a fan catches a foul ball it’s an out. A fan caught a foul ball to end the game. 

https://youtu.be/ttSTpS6QzWc

Guest
8 months ago
Reply to  Twebur

Angel fans at the stadium are more interested in batting a beach ball or standing up for The Wave than they are in paying attention to the play on the field. MAKE SOME NOISE!

PedroCerrano
Super Member
8 months ago
Reply to 

Truly thankful that they extended the netting at stadiums. People with no attention span in a dazed stupor after staring at their phones for most of the game don’t tend to have cat like reflexes.

Last edited 8 months ago by PedroCerrano
BannedInLA
Super Member
8 months ago
Reply to  PedroCerrano

I’m not bothered by the beach balls or the wave because it’s one of the few occasions in which Angels fans show any signs of life.

Being silent and/or face glued
to smartphone is more annoying to me.

TBH, I’ve had more fun being an Angels fan at opposing stadiums than I have in Deadahiem over the years and that
includes Chaves Ravine.

JackFrost
Super Member
8 months ago
Reply to 

So true. I have been complaining about this for years. I used to grab the beach balls and puncture them with a pen… Boy I got some nasty looks for that.

BannedInLA
Super Member
8 months ago
Reply to  JackFrost

Not surprising in the least. You’re about as “fun” as stage 4 cancer.

Cowboy26
Legend
8 months ago
Reply to  JackFrost

Back in the day The ushers used to carry a hat pin in their Breast pocket for that very reason.

JackFrost
Super Member
8 months ago
Reply to  Cowboy26

Tell that to “Banned” cause he seems to think the game is about hitting beachballs around….

BannedInLA
Super Member
8 months ago
Reply to  JackFrost

Miss me with your straw-man tripe.

Cowboy26
Legend
8 months ago
Reply to  JackFrost

Better or worse than The Wave though?

clover_black
Super Member
8 months ago
Reply to  JackFrost

or like… enjoy the game yourself and let people do what they want?

bUt tHe BeAcHbAlL..

BannedInLA
Super Member
8 months ago
Reply to  clover_black

Naw, some people
thrive on smearing their misery like feces onto everyone around them.

JackFrost
Super Member
8 months ago
Reply to  clover_black

Ummm, kinda hard to “enjoy” the game when a big fat beach ball is flying in front of your face every two minutes, and especially when Trout is up with the bases loaded, lol.

Not too different from the “food” people who only go to the game to stuff their faces with overpriced stadium food and socialize with their friends. These are the kind that make a trip to the food lines every inning and walk in front of you at the most inopportune moments… but nevermind clover… just enjoy it when people do that to you bro.

Last edited 8 months ago by JackFrost
clover_black
Super Member
8 months ago
Reply to  JackFrost

lmfao seek therapy

tanana40
Super Member
8 months ago
Reply to  Twebur

During batting practice in about 2018, Albert Pujols hit a shot right at me in the left field corner of the Big A. I was stunned and the ball almost tore my glove off, I missed the ball.

Cowboy26
Legend
8 months ago

45!

https://twitter.com/Jared_Tims/status/1679549934943739904

Even Rengiblow couldn’t screw this one up.

Last edited 8 months ago by Cowboy26
Twebur
Legend
8 months ago
Reply to  Cowboy26

4 years ago for Angel fans, is the equivalent of 28 years, kinda like dog years.

Skaggs alive and Arte attended the game. He’s not there much anymore. Seems like a lifetime. trAdition.

Senator_John_Blutarsky
Legend
8 months ago
Reply to  Cowboy26

But he tried his best….

Jeff Joiner
Editor
Legend
8 months ago
Reply to  Cowboy26

Incredible day and night. I interviewed Ty Buttrey on his drive to the ballpark. Heard the emotion in his voice.

My son was 1 and I didn’t want to leave his side. So I flipped on the game at home.

Vic breaking down just a tiny bit at the end was so perfect. It’s where we all were.

BannedInLA
Super Member
8 months ago

Really amped up for the resumption of baseball tomorrow. We should have a clear indication – based on team performance – what direction the team takes vis-a-vis the trade deadline.

It would appear that we’re not going to get Moore & Neto for a few more days, nothing on Rendon and the Drury thing was obviously worse than initially assumed.

Cowboy26
Legend
8 months ago
Reply to  BannedInLA

so you should be ready for the crash back down to earth about 8 PM tomorrow night.

Twebur
Legend
8 months ago
Reply to  Cowboy26

8PM? Game starts a 6:38 PM…..I’m leaning 6:58PM crash back down to earth, that is a more accurate timeline. By 8 PM I’m watching “The Golden Girls” on my VCR. Thank God for all those stolen tapes from Blockbuster Video. “Be kind rewind” my ass. I didn’t even return it.

halofansince1978
Super Member
8 months ago
Reply to  Twebur

Ohtani will pitch like his unicorn self.

Big let down will be about 7pm on Sat.

Twebur
Legend
8 months ago

At home always give up runs in the first. Down 2-0 after top 1/2, 6-2 final. They own us. They know it, the Angels know it, we know it, everyone knows it.

JackFrost
Super Member
8 months ago
Reply to  Twebur

Nail on the head Twebur. Ohtani will walk the lead-off batter. Then he’ll steal 2B. Unlike us the Astros will get a productive out moving him to 3B with one out … Sac fly to CF makes it 1-0.. Then a two out solo HR makes it 2-0 just like you said…This probably happens about 10-12 minutes into the game…..

Last edited 8 months ago by JackFrost
JackFrost
Super Member
8 months ago

He hasn’t been pitching that way lately.

BannedInLA
Super Member
8 months ago
Reply to  Cowboy26

There are plenty of things to be cynical about such as our rotten culture, moribund cities, illegal proxy wars and shattered economy, but sports isn’t one of them.

Funerals see more joy than some
of the people that comment incessantly around here.

Last edited 8 months ago by BannedInLA
Twebur
Legend
8 months ago
Reply to  BannedInLA

I’m not feeling much joy about the Angels or our rotten culture.

“Culture is — it is a reflection of our moment in our time, right? And in present culture is the way we express how we’re feeling about the moment,
And we should always find times to express how we feel about the moment that is a reflection of joy, because as you know, it comes in the morning,” 

max
Trusted Member
max
8 months ago
Reply to  Twebur

I ‘like’ the way this person says ‘right’ like the previous words strung together were so profound, yet obvious. Arrogance

Jayman28
Trusted Member
8 months ago
Reply to  BannedInLA

Things are going to get worse than better

BannedInLA
Super Member
8 months ago
Reply to  Jayman28

Yes, you make your position clear every 5 minutes.

Kiyotchan
Super Member
8 months ago
Reply to  BannedInLA

I don’t know if you have Apple TV+ free subscription, but I am rewatching 6/9 game against the Mariners. You will see exploits of Sho, Moniak, and Neto, which would fire up any Angels fan. If not, there are YouTube highlights available. I consider it a good appetizer before the main course tomorrow night.

BannedInLA
Super Member
8 months ago
Reply to  Kiyotchan

Exactly, there are positives to be found and joy to he had. The fact that this team has nosedived at the precise moment that key injuries hit cannot be understated.

Really looking forward to seeing Neto, Moore,
Drury, etc return to the fold and HOPEFULLY fuel a playoff run.

Jayman28
Trusted Member
8 months ago
Reply to  BannedInLA

Sounds like more copium right there

BannedInLA
Super Member
8 months ago
Reply to  Jayman28

Sounds like you need to expand your vocabulary. Copium was tired on Twitter months ago and you’re dropping it every third word here.

DowningDude
Legend
8 months ago
Reply to  BannedInLA

It is quite gormless

Jayman28
Trusted Member
8 months ago
Reply to  DowningDude

That’s too bad

Jayman28
Trusted Member
8 months ago
Reply to  BannedInLA

Half the team is injured and some of them aren’t coming back anytime soon and you still think they can turn the season around? Delusional

BannedInLA
Super Member
8 months ago
Reply to  Jayman28

Did I say that?

The answer is, no,
I didn’t. I pointed out that the team
played much better not too long ago when much healthier.

I then posited that with some injured pieces returning, they might play better and win games against key teams.

I’ve consistently stated that if they’re “in it” at the deadline and thus not trading Shohei, they should be aggressive at the deadline and go all in.

If they’re out of it, they should Sell.

These are essentially playoff games in July.

Last edited 8 months ago by BannedInLA
Kiyotchan
Super Member
8 months ago

Big news for 2024 season! Angels do not open their season in Oakland! They don’t play division foe until May 17.
https://twitter.com/JeffFletcherOCR/status/1679543728766328832

steelgolf
Super Member
8 months ago
Reply to  Kiyotchan

Yet they still open the season on the road, this time the way In Baltimore, who have a pretty good team.

halofansince1978
Super Member
8 months ago
Reply to  steelgolf

When is the last time we opened at home…three years?

Kiyotchan
Super Member
8 months ago

At your service, sir. According to BBRef, last year was the last time Angels opened at home. They played against Asstros, Ohtani against Valdez. Tempura gave up solo homeruns to Bregman and Alvarez in 8th inning, which sealed a defeat the Angels. Angels clubhouse cafeteria no longer serve Tempura as of May this year.

Last edited 8 months ago by Kiyotchan
halofansince1978
Super Member
8 months ago
Reply to  Kiyotchan

Not as long ago as I thought!!

AnAngelsFan
Super Member
8 months ago

It’s something like once in the past 5-6 years, though, so it may be recent, but remains quite rare.

Kiyotchan
Super Member
8 months ago
Reply to  AnAngelsFan

The one before last year was 2021 according to BBRef. Angels played on 4/1/2021 at home against White Sox, Bundy vs Giolito. The winning pitcher was Mike Mayers.

I agree with you both. It feels like Angels have not started at home at all for the past 6 seasons. I think our brains are playing a trick on us.

steelgolf
Super Member
8 months ago
Reply to  Kiyotchan

I’m pretty sure they started last season on the road in Oakland. Maybe BRef is talking about their home opener.

Kiyotchan
Super Member
8 months ago
Reply to  steelgolf
steelgolf
Super Member
8 months ago
Reply to  Kiyotchan

Yeah, I looked it up and they did open at home. I guess I was just remembering all the years they would open on the road against the A’s

Kiyotchan
Super Member
8 months ago
Reply to  steelgolf

Like I said earlier, it is kinda amazing how our brains are tricked because I thought Angels have opened their seasons away for the past 6 years myself. They actually opened at home in 2021 and 2022.

However, posters like Cowboy26 keep me on my toes (which is a good thing). I (almost) always triple check before I post facts like numbers, win loss record and especially the results of Angels games.

JackFrost
Super Member
8 months ago
Reply to  steelgolf

I think it was three straight years somewhere here recently …

Twebur
Legend
8 months ago

Not that it matters, but that means we finish the season at home most of the time if you start on off on the road. Which might be great if, let’s say, “you’re fighting for a playoff spot at the end of a season”…as if we would know anything about that. 😀😀😀😀

Kiyotchan
Super Member
8 months ago
Reply to  steelgolf

I would say this is still better than Dodgers and Padres, who will open their season in Seoul, Korea, which is 17 hours ahead of west coast standard time USA. I know this is Manfraud/MLB thing for international ‘expansion’, but it is bit surprising that MLBPA is also supporting it. What are MLBPA/agents getting in return, I wonder?

Twebur
Legend
8 months ago
Reply to  steelgolf

I see exactly 9 wins in March/April 2023. If we are lucky.

Can’t wait!

JackFrost
Super Member
8 months ago
Reply to  steelgolf

Yep. That’s a real tough opening series…

Cowboy26
Legend
8 months ago
Reply to  Kiyotchan

Not sure this will affect you Mr Chan since I didnt think you’re going to be raound next year after the Unicorn.

comment image

Kiyotchan
Super Member
8 months ago
Reply to  Cowboy26

Jeff Fletcher talked to Mariners podcast yesterday, and he did not update the odds of Angels re-signing the rainbow farter. So, I am going to stick with his 30% for the Angels and 40% for Doyers. I will modify the remaining 30% to include Seattle Mariners having 10% based on the fact that he admitted to having dinner with his agents in the Emerald City and said few nice things about the place.

In conclusion, you still have 30% chance that you would have to tolerate my Delusional Hyperbole for at least until next year’s trade deadline.

Last edited 8 months ago by Kiyotchan
Simba
Trusted Member
8 months ago
Reply to  Kiyotchan

If his primary motivation for moving is winning, difficult to see Seattle in the picture. I would think the meeting was just to generate interest and drive his price up.

Kiyotchan
Super Member
8 months ago
Reply to  Simba

Reasons why Seattle may be in the picture.

-Driveline is located in Seattle. He spent last two off seasons there.
-They have Castillo, Gilbert and Kirby. I have previously posted that Mariners would have better chance of catching Asstros for division title as Rangers are now plummeting this year. They definitely need to add more consistent bats off season (or J Rod and Kelenic start hitting better), then they will be contenders for a while.
-Mariners do not have any active Japanese player.
-Ichiro.

Thus, 10%.

Senator_John_Blutarsky
Legend
8 months ago
Reply to  Kiyotchan

If he went to an AL West team, I’d prefer it be Seattle. Signing him to a 10/600 contract would hamstring them for a decade. Much like the Angels not winning with Ohtani (and Trout) in the lineup, I would not envision Seattle winning with Ohtani.

Seattle has been exposed this year – they really aren’t that good.

JackFrost
Super Member
8 months ago

If there is one thing we can be certain of it is that Ohtani WILL win wherever he goes after he leaves us …

Last edited 8 months ago by JackFrost
Senator_John_Blutarsky
Legend
8 months ago
Reply to  JackFrost

It certainly would be trAdition

Twebur
Legend
8 months ago
Reply to  Cowboy26

He and probably 68.4% of Angel fans on the Last Helicopter out of Saigon.

IMG_2081.jpeg
GrandpaBaseball
Legend
8 months ago

Today’s last piece. During Fox Sports coverage during the All-Star break I muted anything that included Ortiz and ARod as I have no use for them as cheaters. I understand that younger fans such as my younger boys and my grandkids do not completely understand why I dislike them for cheating, they did not know the game prior to 1990 or 1994 or 1996, wherever thew line is drawn.

We true fans who read the back of all our baseball cards, subscribed to Sporting News and Baseball Digest to learn everything we could about the player’s and their stats and learning the history of the game, all that was washed away by cheating. I don’t just dislike Bud Selig for being spineless, but that he was aware years before the fans the cheating was happening, but that the owners were making more money than ever before because of the cheating. Manfraud did the same spineless moves in dealing with sign stealing.

The biggest winners of the PED’s use where ARod, Bonds, Ortiz, Sheffield and Sosa along with Clemens. I was aware that something was different as far back as 1997, I thought that it was the balls and that was before Rawlings took over making the MLB baseballs. The fans started hearing about steroids in 2000, but the fans still loved their Mac, Barry, Sammy, etc. I hated that the writers were being flummoxed and awarding Bonds MVP’s every year. I stopped attending games from 1999 to 2003, I never attended any games in the Angels pennant years. I had two good friends that were former MLB player’s and our conversations were about the cheating.
I regress.

I have issues with TV Sports executives not knowing that they are dealing with cheaters, or if having that knowledge don’t care. Heck even the 2002 Angels had 3 users. I hope that Baseball Digest comes out of the ether and Rick Cerrone bars any mention of the PED users.

Jeff Joiner
Editor
Legend
8 months ago

I had to turn the game off for a couple of innings when Arod and Big Roidy were given all that coverage.

They both suck. I can argue ARod actually has an MLB career without roids but Papi clearly doesn’t.

For some reason Papi has always gotten a free pass. I guess somehow in the last few years people stopped caring about Arod.

GrandpaBaseball
Legend
8 months ago
Reply to  Jeff Joiner

I love you Jeff, but ARod was busted twice for PEDS, he said twice he used them before quickly recanting, there is no question that he cheated. As far as Ortiz goes, he does and has always gotten a free pass, and I like you just can’t wrap my head around it. It’s a mystery just like where do elephans go to die?

JackFrost
Super Member
8 months ago

I think Jeff’s point was that ARod had produced at an All Star level prior to using roids… Just look at his early years in Seattle — he was an absolute stud. But big Papi did very little, almost nothing in Minnesota before he got to Boston… Big difference.

2002heaven
Trusted Member
8 months ago
Reply to  JackFrost

He also still produced after 2010 (PEDs were banned by that time).
He wasn’t as good a DH as Miguel Cabrera either.
BTW Billy Beane is still a good GM!!!

Last edited 8 months ago by 2002heaven
PedroCerrano
Super Member
8 months ago
Reply to  JackFrost

There is all kinds of speculation that ARod juiced earlier.

JackFrost
Super Member
8 months ago
Reply to  PedroCerrano

Never tested positive back then…

Cowboy26
Legend
8 months ago
Reply to  JackFrost

Never tested positive back then…

There FIFY.

Hatcher_Is_My_Homeboy
Trusted Member
8 months ago

Have to add Mark McGwire to the top of the list of guys who have gotten a pass. Guy was a hitting coach in the league for years despite the admitting cheating. Everyone else has had to at least be on the outskirts of the game.

MarineLayer
Super Member
8 months ago

At least Bonds and Clemens weren’t invited too.

2002heaven
Trusted Member
8 months ago
Reply to  Jeff Joiner

But what about talking about the game?
Does that matter at all or is all about your past? I thought this was a country about second chances especially if you didn’t harm anybody.

2002heaven
Trusted Member
8 months ago

PED’s were legal during their time.
Meanwhile Ty Cobb and Keenisaw Mountain Landis were both avowed racists and will get to remain in the MLB HOF because MLB didn’t have a Adam Silver as commissioner.

GrandpaBaseball
Legend
8 months ago
Reply to  2002heaven

PEDS being legal or not at the time it is still illegal to cheat. If the players felt, they were not cheating why didn’t they come out in favor of PED”s in public, and why still use them when they were banned. Using bad behavior to justify bad behavior is just wrong.

If you cannot see that using PEDs was wrong and was cheating I now can see you are truly to far gone to even read your comments.

steelgolf
Super Member
8 months ago

My son refers to Ortiz as Big Flappy. He knows Ortiz was a cheater.

Guest
8 months ago
Reply to  steelgolf

Cheating in baseball is an interesting topic. Fans love to jeer the cheating players, yet the desire that many players in the past and continuing into the present have to cheat is so very strong.

Cap Anson used to take a short-cut by running in between the pitcher’s mound and second base when the umpire was watching the ball in the outfield. The Black Sox Scandal. The Spitter was outlawed, yet many pitchers sneakily continued to throw it for years. The sandpaper. The spider tack. The greenies. The steroids.

Before replay, outfielders would pretend they caught the ball when they knew they had trapped it on the ground. The sign stealing scandal. No doubt another gambling scandal is just around the bend now that the relationship between the gambling world and MLB is cozier than ever.

On close plays, Pujols would step off of the first base bag so he could catch the ball earlier so that the umpire would hear the pop in the mitt before he could hear the runner’s foot hit the bag, tricking the umpire into calling a safe player out.

Pitch-framing is cheating.

Cheating is ingrained into the woodwork of baseball, just like the anger is that fans like to throw back at the cheaters.

Last edited 8 months ago by GhostGuest
DowningDude
Legend
8 months ago
Reply to 

+1 and who knows what latest cheating methods, communication devices, men in the white shirt, trash cans, peds, New drugs that beat detection are likely being employed every day. The cheaters are everywhere – the stakes are way too high to NOT cheat

Twebur
Legend
8 months ago
Reply to  DowningDude

The players are 2 steps ahead in detection. You have to be stupid, lazy or very unlucky to be caught.

You ain’t cheating, you ain’t trying.

Kiyotchan
Super Member
8 months ago
Reply to  DowningDude

And some computer hackers somewhere in Africa are getting richer.
https://techcrunch.com/2023/07/11/banks-hotels-hospitals-latest-moveit-mass-hack-victims/
I have frozen my accounts last year with all three major credit companies.

Senator_John_Blutarsky
Legend
8 months ago
Reply to 

For me the difference is gamesmanship (trapping the ball, pitch framing, sign stealing, hiding the ball trick, Pujols’ off the bag trip, etc.) and things are defined as illegal by baseball rules (doctoring the ball, gambling), and state or federal laws (drug use).

I’ll admit that my knowledge of baseball “law” and state & federal statutes is limited – so there may be some gaps in the assessment.

tanana40
Super Member
8 months ago

Recommended for reading the Sporting News! The Angels beat write for SN was Dick Miller. My parents could not afford to buy me a subscription each year but they did anyway.

GrandpaBaseball
Legend
8 months ago
Reply to  tanana40

I had to always buy my own, would purchase every week at a Rexall Drug store. At 14 I would make a $1.00 per hour and safe until I got enough for the Sporting News and Baseball Digest. Baseball Digest back in the ’60s would feature the older write often enough that it exposed us to some great names. Sporting news was weekly and was a treat sitting around with the brothers and Dad comparing players and leagues. Thanx for unlocking some memories there.

GrandpaBaseball
Legend
8 months ago

The same group that held MLB back by wanting to take a lot of time to either get out of the box between pitches or take a lot of time between pitches to throw pitches, now wants more time added to the clock? If not during the season at least during the post season.

ry tough on Robert Manfred even to the point to referring to him as Manfraud for many years. I still believe one thing to be true-that he only cares about the owners, how he looks, and the money. He does not care about the game of MLB or MiLB or its integrity.

With that said, his best move, and there has not been many, was to add the pitch clock as everyone loves it, except the players. They do not agree with the changes in the count as a penalty? They can’t think fast enough to figure want to throw or as a batter what maybe coming down the pike? The pitchers have issues with being limited to only 2 throws over to first base to nail a runner.

That fans not only like the clock added-they love it. Attendance is up across the boards in all demographics. Fans like the limits put on the shift also. They don’t care about larger bases. The fans hate the “Ghost runner” in extras. So not everything is upbeat and honky dory Manfraud, but don’t mess with the clock, the fans love it. Let well enough alone and the players will adapt.

MarineLayer
Super Member
8 months ago

I like everything except the ghost runner and the larger bases. I’m undecided on the limited throws to first. I love the pitch clock.

Kiyotchan
Super Member
8 months ago
Reply to  MarineLayer

Don’t mean to be argumentative, but I actually like both Kansas City extra inning rule (that’s what people used to call for Cal Ripken/little league baseball games) and larger bases.

Alternative to KC extra inning rule is to allow games end up in a tie. NPB games are declared a tie if they remain with the same score after 12th inning. However, tied baseball games for American baseball fans are probably like pouring cold milk into perfectly steamed white rice and eating it with chopsticks for Japanese. Another reason I like KC rule is it forces teams to consider small ball tactics. To me, bunting, stealing, and hit and run are fundamental strategies of baseball which make the game more entertaining to watch and second guess.

I like larger bases because they lead to more steals and they are safer for the players. I would have liked them better if MLB employed extra base at 1B for batter runners (as in softball game) again for safety reason (that may have saved Urshela from injuring himself) and for finally doing away with the asinine batter runner (have to run in the runner lane) interference call at 1B.

Last edited 8 months ago by Kiyotchan
JackFrost
Super Member
8 months ago
Reply to  MarineLayer

Yeah, the pitch clock has worked surprisingly well. I didn’t think I would like it but it turned out that I really do.

Last edited 8 months ago by JackFrost
BruinsAngelsKings
Trusted Member
8 months ago

Fuck a-fraud!

Twebur
Legend
8 months ago

Dooooooooooooooouche bag.

IMG_2079.jpeg
BruinsAngelsKings
Trusted Member
8 months ago
Reply to  Twebur

That POS a-fraud should not be allowed to have anything to do with baseball!

While we’re at it, manfraud can FO as well. You’ll continue to keep your agreements with betting sites but still ban the all-time hits leader for betting!?!?

I get it, he bet on games, that’s a no-no But now that MLB has agreements with betting sites it looks…foolish.

Jeff Joiner
Editor
Legend
8 months ago

I can’t throw a game when I bet from my seat or couch.

Pete Rose did throw games when he was a manager.

Dude deserves to be banned.

GrandpaBaseball
Legend
8 months ago
Reply to  Jeff Joiner

I agree with you Jeff, but I also agree with it looks fooolih of MLB to have tie in’s with the Gaming industry, just like 3 o’s in foolish. The big thing missing is integrity. Even if the gambling brings in a billion dollars a year, there should be someone to stand up and just stay no. But money talks and the rest walks. Even the MLBWA (writers) doesn’t care as witnessed with Ortiz elected to the Hall.

Kiyotchan
Super Member
8 months ago

This is vintage hypocrisy of sports betting along with all the major sports franchises who decided to sleep with the up and coming shiny entity with no condoms. The gambling site commercials always come with 1-800-GAMBLER as if that would excuse them from committing multitude of tragedies in human life. I predict that there will be a scathing scandal in next 5 years involving a player, coach, or even another officiating crew who will have been talked into influencing a game or two. Unfortunately, all federal, state, and local governments benefit from domestic gambling activities, so they will go on instead of letting the money travel to foreign/off shore gambling sites.

Last edited 8 months ago by Kiyotchan
Twebur
Legend
8 months ago
Reply to  Kiyotchan

The Sports world has bigger problems than gambling. Most people do not destroy their lives by getting a little action on a game. Like everything now, the tiny minority get all the attention.

I’ll take 10/1 odds you don’t agree…

Take the Ass’tros tomorrow night, money-line them. Take the over, the Angel bullpen alone might cover that.

JackFrost
Super Member
8 months ago
Reply to  Twebur

Already got my bet in on the Astros. The one silver lining to Angels sucking is we know they’ll do Angel things against good teams like Houston … at least we can make some money on their suckitude.

Last edited 8 months ago by JackFrost
Kiyotchan
Super Member
8 months ago
Reply to  Twebur

Are you talking about Pat Fitzgerald, as one of the bigger problems that Sports world has? You are absolutely right. Those people who are addicted to gambling will have life long self destroying problem regardless of easier access to gambling or not, so we should ignore them. It is society’s problem. That’s why we pay tax. Our government should handle the sh’t portion of the society.

The certain east coast cable company whose name I have endlessly vowed not to utter this site featured certain gender soccer team as Arthur Ashe Courage award winners last night. They even declared they would continue to support transgenders. What happens when a transgender originally XY joins USA rival team? Would they still continue to support that individual even though that person might give the team ‘unfair’ advantage?

Part of me likes to drop controversial subjects, usually something around politics and religion. The remaining portion knows I have no f’cking idea how to solve them.

Pineapple12
Super Member
8 months ago

The Angels signed 1st rounder Nolan Schanuel to a $5,253,000 deal. That’s slot value for the 11th pick.

https://twitter.com/CarlosACollazo/status/1679496245432426496?t=zubTQPOZs83wjiedytFI-Q&s=19

GrandpaBaseball
Legend
8 months ago
Reply to  Pineapple12

With all due respect here Pineapple, your post seems rather redundant does it not. For a guy with only a little knowledge such as myself, I ask you did the Angels get a deal?

If a player is drafted at #11, as Schanuel was and who should have been drafted later in RD1 or even in RD2, do you think that signing him for less (Say as a #24 pick or later pick slot) to save money for must have draftees later in the draft, would have been a better deal? I concede that drafting is a crap shoot, but there is a business end to it also.

It could be argued that we overpaid for this player, what do you think?

Jeff Joiner
Editor
Legend
8 months ago

Agreed. I figured the entire point was to save a million or more on the signing bonus then add a higher upside guy later.

They must really think Nolan is worthy of #11.

We shall see.

Cowboy26
Legend
8 months ago
Reply to  Jeff Joiner

Thats a head scratcher for sure.

Pineapple12
Super Member
8 months ago

I literally posted news, brother.

Personally, I am moderately surprised Nolan Schanuel didn’t sign for underslot. It only matters if Perry can’t sign the 2 HSers.

Senator_John_Blutarsky
Legend
8 months ago
Reply to  Pineapple12

Yes, I’m surprised as well.

It’s just another confirmation that every time it seems like I’ve figured Perry’s thinking out, I’m humbled to learn that my interpretations are not even remotely close.

MarineLayer
Super Member
8 months ago

Maybe that’s because his thinking isn’t as good as you’re giving him credit for. For all the credit he gets around here, we haven’t seen it reflected in the club’s on-field success, which is what I think is the best way to judge him.

GrandpaBaseball
Legend
8 months ago
Reply to  MarineLayer

On the field success is reflected in the W-L record which is improved. But Perry did acknowledge that he needed to fix the roster with better replacement players by bringing in Urshela, Renfroe, Drury, Estevez, Moore. No one could have predicted all the injuries to key players and off years by others any more than one could predict that Thaiss, OHoppe and Neto would be so valuable. While PTP does not bat 1.000, he is still the best we have seen around here since Stoneman.

BTW, I am slowly coming to believe that this team is jinxed. In the 2000’s we should have won 3 or 4 WS. In the 2010’s we should have won 1 WS. Since Arte purchased the team we have won 0 WS. Our FA Agent signings fold like cheap suits, has anyone ever seen a team have so many injuries as the Angels have had in the last 10 years. Seems like we should lead in all of Baseball in TJS in that time.

Can’t blame Perry for this mess, imho. Recently someone here wrote that there is enough blame to go around, and that is so true. I do understand your frustration in PTP, I have it too in this years draft, but what can we do but sit back and watch what happens, right?

Cowboy26
Legend
8 months ago

But isn’t our Allstar training staff responsible for all of these injuries?

smithy610
Super Member
8 months ago

Well, I wouldn’t exactly characterize all our FA signings as bad under the Arte Era. When Arte came, he made a big splash with Guerrero, Colon, Guillen and Escobar.

With Vlad leading the way, the Angels had an incredible run of AL West dominance from 2004-2009, with them just barely missing the playoffs in 2005 (ended up 4 games back of eventual division winner Oakland). They were a consistent 90 game winner in that span, even just barely missing that mark in 2005 with 89 wins.

All this downfall really started when Vlad left the team. Maybe he’s the one who cursed the Angels on his way out….

DowningDude
Legend
8 months ago
Reply to  Pineapple12

You used the word “deal” and he thought you meant the Angels got “a deal” when in fact signing the contract is also knows as an act of “making a deal”

This deal was no BARGAIN but we will have to wait and see.

I have no horse in that race – I have no idea if he sucks or if he’s good. We know where Turks and Gramps stand and some others spoke loudly. I have no idea.

grichmanpoorman
Trusted Member
8 months ago
Reply to  Pineapple12

This makes me a little less content with the pick, admittedly. Seems like a textbook underslot… unless another team in the Top 15 was interested in Schanuel (how to pronounce that? Shan-WELL?) and was willing to pay him slot.

halofansince1978
Super Member
8 months ago

Our 15th round pick SS Caleb Ketchup…best name ever?

Senator_John_Blutarsky
Legend
8 months ago

…but we all know it was Colonel Mustard in the Library with the Candlestick..

GrandpaBaseball
Legend
8 months ago

 😂 

Senator_John_Blutarsky
Legend
8 months ago

KLaw on the Angels draft (below). He talks about who they did draft, not the players that were available when they drafted. For most that expressed concerns with the Angels draft approach, the issue is who was available at their selection.

Hell, it’s all a crapshoot anyway….

The Angels went for a quick-to-the-majors guy again in the first round, taking FAU first baseman Nolan Schanuel (1) with the 11th pick, betting that his tremendous performance this spring will help him move as quickly as their 2022 first-rounder Zach Neto did. Schanuel can definitely hit and he showed power this spring, although his batted-ball data was more very good than elite and he may not have the same kind of power with wood bats against better pitching. His plate discipline is exemplary, though, and that should speed him to the majors.

Alberto Rios (3) had all of eight plate appearances in his first two years at Stanford, but broke out this year with a .384/.405/.707 line, leading the team in doubles and homers — even more than first-rounder Tommy Troy hit. He doesn’t chase, has bat speed, and hits good fastballs. The rub is that he’s in search of a position — he’s caught a little bit, and maybe could have stuck there with work, and played left field with below-average range, but the Angels announced him as a third baseman. I have no confidence that’ll work.

Outfielder Joe Redfield (4) is the son of the former Angels outfielder of the same name, a transfer from JUCO to Sam Houston State who hit .402/.485/.683 for the Bearkats this spring. He has a very wide stance and has no stride, but his hands are quick and he’s short to the ball, which should produce contact, perhaps without that much power. The Angels could try to give him a stride and more of a weight transfer to see if he can start to drive the ball. I like the bat speed and pitch recognition here.

Right-hander Chris Clark (5) pahks his cah in the yahd, but the Crimson starter had a near-5 ERA this spring with too many walks and a lot of hard contact. He’s mostly fastball/slider and either could be a 55, although his max-effort delivery inhibits his command.

Wake Forest right-hander Camden Minacci (6) was the Deacons’ closer this year, working 94-97 with a plus slider and throwing both for strikes. He didn’t show a third pitch but I think the delivery would allow him to be more than a one-inning guy if he has one for lefties.

TCU’s Cole Fontenelle (7) had a great year for the Frogs, hammering fastballs in his first year there after transferring from a junior college, but he doesn’t hit offspeed stuff well and played mostly first base in college, although the Angels also announced him as a third baseman, which appears to be some sort of new market inefficiency.

Right-hander Barrett Kent (8) is a sinker/slider guy with a very mechanical delivery where he falls off hard to the first base side after release. He’s 91-94 mph and the slider is just okay, although he’s definitely projectable. He’s an Arkansas commit and I assume a big over-slot guy in this spot.

steelgolf
Super Member
8 months ago

KLaw was being generous in my opinion. I give them a grade on the border of a D to D-. Unless of course people think that high contact, no power 1st basemen that you are going to try and convert to 3rd basemen, is the next “Cryptocurrency”.

Fansince1971
Legend
8 months ago
Reply to  steelgolf

Right – this is a total crap shoot (emphasis on crap?) draft. I guess all drafts are a gamble of sorts but some are more than others. D is the grade I assign for now – but, who knows?! Maybe that grade go up over time.

Senator_John_Blutarsky
Legend
8 months ago
Reply to  Fansince1971

I was also in the D+/C- range for this draft. Perry’s first draft was 2021…it would be interesting to see how those picks are performing after 2 years in the system.

MarineLayer
Super Member
8 months ago

My knee-jerk reaction is to agree with your grade, since I have not liked Minasian’s picks much, except Neto. I heard several teams saying we sniped them with the Neto pick. I haven’t heard anyone say that about any of our picks this year.

JackFrost
Super Member
8 months ago
Reply to  steelgolf

Why would they convert him to 3rd? They need a 1B pretty badly …

Last edited 8 months ago by JackFrost
smithy610
Super Member
8 months ago
Reply to  JackFrost

I could argue that they also need a 3B pretty badly.

Last edited 8 months ago by smithy610
steelgolf
Super Member
8 months ago
Reply to  smithy610

Yep, right now we have the 40 at 3rd, so we need another 3rd baseman to play 60% of the games.

Senator_John_Blutarsky
Legend
8 months ago
Reply to  smithy610

It can also be argued that we have a pretty bad 3rd baseman.

Jeff Joiner
Editor
Legend
8 months ago
Reply to  smithy610

Agreed. And I’m completely on board with signing Urshela for 2 or 3 years this off season. His was a freak injury. Rendon is a constant injury.

On the rare occasion Rendon is healthy, Urshela gives us a quality rotational piece to keep guys fresh. Once Rendon goes down, Urshela gives us an MLB caliber third baseman.

smithy610
Super Member
8 months ago
Reply to  Jeff Joiner

I’m not opposed to bringing Urshela back either, and for him ending the season injured, he would probably come in with a reasonable price. We do need that infield piece that can rotate around the diamond reliably. Gone are the days where you only have your “everyday” 1B, 2B and 3B. Between Rengifo and Urshela, who basically have the same role, I’d go with Urshela. And as of now, I have no faith that Fletcher can go back to his old self. Maybe Fletch needs a change of scenery, because it doesn’t seem like he’ll get a second chance here.

JackFrost
Super Member
8 months ago
Reply to  smithy610

Not as badly as they need 1B.. As much as we hate the Rendone deal and hate his fragility, when he’s healthy we know he’s gonna be the starter… We don’t have that certainty at 1B except for the stop-gap measure of Moose …

smithy610
Super Member
8 months ago
Reply to  JackFrost

“When he’s healthy” is doing a lot of work here.

steelgolf
Super Member
8 months ago
Reply to  JackFrost

Still going to need a 3rd baseman roughly 60% of the time.

JackFrost
Super Member
8 months ago
Reply to  steelgolf

True. I would have been okay with drafting a 3B with the 1st Round pick, but I ALSO understood and was okay with the 1B pick.

MarineLayer
Super Member
8 months ago
Reply to  JackFrost

Because it’s easier to find a random 1B somewhere, or just plop your worst fielder there. It was the explanation why we signed Rendon in the first place, and Unfortunately the need didn’t change since the signing, but with much more limited payroll as a result.

grichmanpoorman
Trusted Member
8 months ago
Reply to  steelgolf

Eh. I can’t say I’m stoked with the draft, either… but aren’t our impressions solely informed by what other people have written these players, and how they’ve ranked them? Your D to D- is a third-generation VHS pirate tape of Star Wars. One would assume the team has insights/information we don’t.

Last edited 8 months ago by grichmanpoorman
Jeff Joiner
Editor
Legend
8 months ago

This is the opposite of the Eppler era drafts. Billy took raw athletes and hoped they’d figure out the fundamental part of the game: controlling the strike zone.

Perry is taking guys who control the strike zone well but aren’t good athletes.

The perfect player is one who is both athletic and has good control of the zone. Personally I think it would be easier for an MLB team to make a guy quicker and more fluid in the field than teach him how to control the zone and hit.

Cowboy26
Legend
8 months ago
Reply to  Jeff Joiner

But can you really teach speed JJ?

steelgolf
Super Member
8 months ago
Reply to  Cowboy26

Nope. You can work on agility and reaction time. Possibly work on running mechanics, but the speed just is what it is.

Senator_John_Blutarsky
Legend
8 months ago

Is it true that Arte is nearing a sponsorship agreement with “Chico’s Bail Bonds” and their advertising will soon adorn Angels uniforms?

comment image&ct=g

steelgolf
Super Member
8 months ago

It would force me to buy a jersey if they did.

JackFrost
Super Member
8 months ago
Reply to  steelgolf

Looks like a PADRES home jersey.