LA Angels Monday News Crash: On The Outside Looking In

Happy Monday all, and hope you had a good weekend. Let’s dive into some Angels links, shall we?

The Angels didn’t have a lovely weekend, losing the series to the rebuilding Baltimore Orioles and the newly remodeled Camden Yards. Sunday’s loss came before the Angels’ faithful could even daydrink at brunch, which gives a new meaning to “Easy like Sunday morning”. GM Perry Minasian is taking responsibility for the ineffective roster construction ($), though it seems a little late for that. The Angels are 38-48, 4th in their own division, and 12th in the AL. Barring a major miracle, they will find themselves watching the playoffs from home for yet another year. On the bright side, Shohei Ohtani received some praise for his pitching improvements over at FanGraphs, while Jake Mailhot suggests Patrick Sandoval use the 4-seam fastball less and the sinker more. Perhaps coincidentally, that’s exactly what Sandoval did on Saturday to great success. (Unfortunately, the Angels couldn’t muster any run support and lost, 1-0.)

Feel free to add more links in the comments below.

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jcstein
Trusted Member
1 year ago

I think the Yanks would be a good trade partner for Shohei. We could get Volpe (SS), Wells (C), and Waldichuk (P), as well as a bullpen arm and one of their failed starters–like Gil and/or Loaisiga. They get a massive boost this season, we end up with close to MLB pieces.

The Yanks would basically move Stanton to RF, Shohei DH / RHP. We would have a bunch of prospects that would potentially fill some holes, and hopefully 1-2 work out.

Senator_John_Blutarsky
Legend
Reply to  jcstein

To make any trade involving Ohtani get close to acceptable, a third or maybe a fourth team would need to be included.

I don’t think PTP has the gravitas to pull something off that would be positive, so we’ll be destined to wait for the assets in the farm to ripen in 5 years or so.

DowningDude
Legend
1 year ago

Holy crap! I hadn’t even seen this play ….
https://youtu.be/EREi9VVhajY
no wonder why people were enraged around here.

Mikeal1st
Trusted Member
1 year ago
Reply to  DowningDude

Remember when we were excited about the team…?

aces666high
Trusted Member
1 year ago
Reply to  DowningDude

Great example of a poorly coached, lazy, stupid team.

Fansince1971
Legend
1 year ago
Reply to  DowningDude

I would have fired that first base coach immediately after the game. Looks like he was dreaming of a pizza.

DowningDude
Legend
1 year ago
Reply to  Fansince1971

Wouldn’t YOU be dreaming of pizza too???? (especially if it looked like you were perpetually smuggling a watermelon)

Last edited 1 year ago by DowningDude
DowningDude
Legend
1 year ago

Im gonna side with “oddball Team Jersey Poo Poo’ers” this time around. Barf ….

comment image

Love, JackF and DowningD

Last edited 1 year ago by DowningDude
Angels2020Champs
Super Member
1 year ago
Reply to  DowningDude

Might just get the ASG patch as a keepsake this year.

Home white/gold version looks better.

Last edited 1 year ago by Angels2020Champs
Brent
Super Member
1 year ago

https://twitter.com/katiejwoo/status/1546641739947151369?s=20&t=1d2vKeHUVXxSOszQrP0mBA

lolwut – yet Trout won’t participate. What does he have to lose this season?

Angels2020Champs
Super Member
1 year ago
Reply to  Brent

🤢🤮 depending on the rest of the HRD participants, I might just sell my tickets.
Wish the marketing campaign of let the kids play and MLB’s inclusions of future stars matched better… as is this is one last attempt at a money grab for higher ratings 👎🏻

Angels2020Champs
Super Member
1 year ago
Reply to  Brent

Why even give the $1 million prize money at this point? It’s not enticing the guys they want to play, does Pujols need another millie (I’m sure he’d ‘donate’ it or whatever). Could you imagine the hunger from one of the Future Stars going after it? Nope we want the ratings in StL to be good instead

Mikeal1st
Trusted Member
1 year ago
Reply to  Brent

When did they start counting weak double play groundouts to third as home runs?

James
Trusted Member
1 year ago
Reply to  Mikeal1st

That’s a real shifty way of looking at things

Cowboy26
Legend
1 year ago
Reply to  James

For Grandpalorian, This is the Way

2GA2Join
Super Member
1 year ago
Reply to  Brent

My predictable response….
Can he just stay on the mound and keep pitching when the game starts?

h27kim
Trusted Member
1 year ago
Reply to  2GA2Join

With a 50 mph fastball?

Senator_John_Blutarsky
Legend
Reply to  h27kim

That’s 10 MPH faster than his last season in the bigs

DowningDude
Legend
1 year ago
Reply to  Brent

Awesome.comment image

Brent
Super Member
1 year ago
Reply to  DowningDude

Alex coming back as a skeleton gets me every time.

DowningDude
Legend
1 year ago
Reply to  Brent

I wish ole atomburn would rejoin the community so we could give him the credit he deserves for making this amazing gif …

benjiface
Trusted Member
1 year ago
Reply to  DowningDude

Pure magic

Rallymanatee
Trusted Member
1 year ago
Reply to  Brent

Did somebody say Alex is coming back?! That’ll boost ratings.

Cowboy26
Legend
1 year ago
Reply to  Rallymanatee

Hopefully with skin

DowningDude
Legend
1 year ago
Reply to  Cowboy26

“hey – we gotta be better than this.”

 😂 

Angels2020Champs
Super Member
1 year ago
Reply to  DowningDude

Poke poke

DowningDude
Legend
1 year ago

comment image

FungoAle
Super Member
1 year ago
Reply to  DowningDude

Badass Weaver!

Rallymanatee
Trusted Member
1 year ago
Reply to  DowningDude

Memories!

benjiface
Trusted Member
1 year ago
Reply to  Rallymanatee

Back to when we had pitchers who could pitch…and stuff

benjiface
Trusted Member
1 year ago
Reply to  DowningDude

Best baseball-related GIF of all time and space and age. This thing should be in the HOF, just like Bobby Grich should

Angels2020Champs
Super Member
1 year ago

Anyone see that Doyer employees at the Latrine might strike before the All-Star game? It’s money already spent by me but I would be pretty stoked if that somehow threw a wrench into the festivities. It’s not like getting in/out of that parking lot is getting any easier (if they’re are people picketing). I’m also sure the blue collar worker deserves more money from MLBs insanely priced events as is. But I digress. I’ve already contributed enough to the monopoly as is.

https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/34227337/dodger-stadium-concession-workers-threaten-strike-ahead-all-star-game

I would be interested to see what our (Angel Fans) demographic, socio-economic and so forth is… just out of curiosity. I know going to home games and traveling to them that we are good bunch. I never hear one of us get too nasty towards opposing players or umps and the ones on the road are just happy you’re there with them!

comment image

The ESPN article has a typo… make ends meet (meat). 🤫🫣

Last edited 1 year ago by Angels2020Champs
Twebur
Legend
1 year ago

FAMOUS DODGERS VENDORBANNED FROM THROWING PEANUTSOver Safety Concerns
https://www.tmz.com/2022/07/06/famous-dodgers-vendor-banned-throwing-peanut-bags-fans/

Angels2020Champs
Super Member
1 year ago
Reply to  Twebur

The year 2022 people!!!

comment image

Angels2020Champs
Super Member
1 year ago
Reply to  Twebur

It would be AMAZING if the reason for the strike was for Owens!!! 🫤

The behind the back, must have been
comment image

Last edited 1 year ago by Angels2020Champs
2002heaven
Trusted Member
1 year ago

Steph is just another serviceable 2B
Not a Joe Morgan, Ryne Sandberg, Paul Molitor, or Lou Whitaker, not even in Grich’s league either. Haven’t we had enough gutty little walk-on type guys to bloat Disney’s production department on the next inspirational movie idea? It’s time we actually developed a thoroughbred athlete besides #27 by accident.

Senator_John_Blutarsky
Legend
Reply to  2002heaven

Does the Plumber have the ceiling of Adam Kennedy (career OPS of .711)?

GrandpaBaseball
Legend
1 year ago

Adam Kennedy and Fletch have little power or none at all, so OPS is not a measure of their value really. Plumber has the ability to hit, that’s for sure. Kennedy did have power when it counted though 🙂 

Cowboy26
Legend
1 year ago

If a player has no power and does not walk much, I would think their “true value” maybe hidden from us all.

jcstein
Trusted Member
1 year ago
Reply to  Cowboy26

Fletcher was one of the -if not the-top defensive players in baseball prior to his getting hurt. If you look at his runs saved versus innings, he’s in platinum glove territory. He also walked a decen amount prior to last year.

Cowboy26
Legend
1 year ago
Reply to  jcstein

And how does that platinum defense going to help out our award winning offense?

jcstein
Trusted Member
1 year ago
Reply to  Cowboy26

A run saved on defense is the same as a run scored on offense. I thought that was well known at this point, and this is why guys like Kiermaier and Hayward were hot commodities.

tanana40
Super Member
1 year ago
Reply to  2002heaven

Of course, Grich should be a Hall of Famer so we would not expect Stefanic to be at that level.

GrandpaBaseball
Legend
1 year ago
Reply to  tanana40

He does not belong in the HoF, very good player, yes, Great Player, no, and that is why he is not in the HoF currently.

Cowboy26
Legend
1 year ago

Stefanic? how can you be so sure since his MLB career has just commenced?

tanana40
Super Member
1 year ago

Ten years ago, I would have agree with you. Today, I don’t think he will ever make the Hall of Fame, but the analytic guys have convinced me that he should be in the HOF. His career WAR is higher than Biggio, Sandburg, and Alomar who are all in the HOF as second-baseman.

For example, read, https://www.beyondtheboxscore.com/2022/1/15/22884570/bobby-grich-hall-of-fame-worthy-mlb-second-baseman

DowningDude
Legend
1 year ago
Reply to  tanana40

I recall that at the old site, Rev or Matt Welch made a very convincing post about Grich. He’s clearly HoF in my opinion.

Cowboy26
Legend
1 year ago
Reply to  tanana40

Grich was ahead of his time understanding the value of high on base percentage when the entire league was fixated on average.

his defense was elite while providing respectable power. Considering his contemporaries and the era he played in, he is definitely HOF worthy.

MarineLayer
Super Member
1 year ago
Reply to  Cowboy26

And lets not forget about grit. He had plenty of that.

Jim Atkins
Super Member
1 year ago

Grich is right in the middle of the top 10 or 11 second basemen according to Jay Jaffe’s JAWS system. All the others, besides Robinson Cano, are in the HOF.

benjiface
Trusted Member
1 year ago
Reply to  Jim Atkins

Therefore, HOF’er

benjiface
Trusted Member
1 year ago
Reply to  Jim Atkins

And if he’d played on the East Coast his whole career, he’d already be in the HOF

benjiface
Trusted Member
1 year ago

Wrong.

MarineLayer
Super Member
1 year ago
Reply to  tanana40

Thank you for pointing that glaring omission out.

gitchogritchoffmypettis
Legend
Reply to  2002heaven

Demand a Champion at Every Spot on the 25 Man but Make Sure I have Heard of Him and Feel He Will Be Awesome but Also Be Sure He’s not an Overpriced Free Agent and Also Make Sure He Never Gets Hurt!

  • The CTPG Fan stands for Fanatic moto
benjiface
Trusted Member
1 year ago
Reply to  2002heaven

How long must we endure this stupidity? Lawd give me the strength to endure!

RexFregosi
Super Member
1 year ago

Some of you likely have figured this out already but it clicked on me this weekend –

Shohei is going to the Mets.

He came to Anaheim for Billy and a Billionaire that would spend. Billy is gone and the Billionaire has a spending cap. But now in NYC, there’s Billly and a Billionaire that doesn’t have a spending cap. He’s headed to the Big Apple. Mr Hedge Fund will get him.

So, has anyone eyed out what we should get in the next months year for Shohei from the Mets? A Starter, A Position Player, and 3-4 top prospects (?)

Angels2020Champs
Super Member
1 year ago
Reply to  RexFregosi

It’s not like every MLB is going to be going after his services, but the Mets are definitely one of them will (if given the opportunity).

Jeff Joiner has posted a good article on the main page about our trading options. That includes the trade simulator, so we can all go to it for ourselves and play around.

I’d be willing to trade Arte and Shohei to the Mets for their owner and Alonso. I looked, the trade simulator wouldn’t allow it 😖

RexFregosi
Super Member
1 year ago

Steve Cohen may be the only owner who can both afford him and is willing to spend. Maybe the Dodgers but Cohen is hungrier.

RexFregosi
Super Member
1 year ago
Reply to  RexFregosi

Bassit, MacNeil

And their Top 3 propects:  Francisco ÁlvarezBrett Baty and Ronny Mauricio 

I would do this because

jcstein
Trusted Member
1 year ago
Reply to  RexFregosi

No chance. Why would the Mets trade top talent from their MLB roster when their goal is to win NOW?

2002heaven
Trusted Member
1 year ago
Reply to  RexFregosi

Rather get Yankees, Braves, RS, or Astros prospects.

2GA2Join
Super Member
1 year ago
Reply to  2002heaven

I wonder if we’ll have to swing a 3 team trade then.
 😀 

ihearhowie3.0
Super Member
1 year ago
Reply to  RexFregosi

I dont think any team would offer 2 MLB players and 3-4 top prospects for a guy they know they can sign.

The Mets are an obvious destination but I think people sleep on the Giants here. Would be a really good fit in several ways. Plus the whole Toyko Giants / San Francisco Giants thing would have some synergy.

Either way it’s a shame this is a realistic convo now. At the beginning of the season I saw no way he’d leave his comfort zone here but man the Angels have a way of setting themselves on fire.

Senator_John_Blutarsky
Legend
Reply to  ihearhowie3.0

So you’re saying we need to get Tony Reagins a GM gig BEFORE we look to trade Ohtani?

2002heaven
Trusted Member
1 year ago

comment image?itok=SY7CTRHN
Why sweat it when you see The Big A parking lot full of them to see #17 and #27

Last edited 1 year ago by 2002heaven
DowningDude
Legend
1 year ago
Reply to  2002heaven

I bought a used MBZ with a 5.5l engine at 50% of the present base price of a 2022 Honda civic. Do i fit your cookie cutter ASSumption?

Last edited 1 year ago by DowningDude
VladimirTrout27
Trusted Member
1 year ago

Minasians comments with Fletcher are comical. Hitters 6-9 since the 15th of May, RISP under .200 (.173 when i checked on Saturday), lowest in league and tied for lead in GIDP. And Perry is like uh well we were a diff team 1.5 months ago, so he may approach trade deadline differently. He and Arte let it disgustingly awful. They’re gifting outs and helping teams by killing their own rallies for about 2 months and Perry has done minimal to help. Oh yeah, firing Maddon worked out great. I liked that he did the interview and took blame, but his ineptitude is front and center.

Last edited 1 year ago by VladimirTrout27
gitchogritchoffmypettis
Legend

I know. All the other teams have been making big trades to fix their line ups for weeks and weeks now, but not us. Why wouldn’t Moreno Malvado just send his army of evil to other teams owners and get some late July trades done in May? What a dick.

VladimirTrout27
Trusted Member
1 year ago

I like Stefanic so far, but say he takes 2B, Fletch 3B, relying on Rengifo as SS? And I think Suzuki has better OBP than Stassi which is shocking… I think a better hitting, om base middle infielder would help and use Rengifo as utility and rotate Stefanic. But you won’t have Fletch until late July, so may need someone now, which ironically dictates them making a move before deadline which goes back to your point. Why wait so late when they could’ve added at least 1 bat sooner. I said this a while back. Had they made the trades prior to facing subpar teams imagine how closer they’d be in W/C?

1. Stefanic
2. Trout
3. Ohtani
4. Ward
5. Walsh
6. Stassi
7. Marsh/Rengifo
8. Rengifo/trade
9. trade/Fletcher

Ironically Jose Iglesias is having a decent season offensively. So yeah there are guys out there who can hit above avg at SS or 2B and get on base that don’t K a lot.

Angels2020Champs
Super Member
1 year ago

So is Cron. I wish we played in Denver moar!

gitchogritchoffmypettis
Legend

The biggest problem with trades is you need someone to want to trade with you. Not a lot of those GMs in May.

VladimirTrout27
Trusted Member
1 year ago

1000%! You have to overpay when there’s no urgency on the other side. But consider how much WAR is from a salary standpoint and consider the slide in standings since May, there were options to make for non Allstars, i.e. Miguel Rojas -Mia, Kyle Farmer – Cin, or Jose Iglesias – Col. Overpaying for them won’t be as steep, but I get your good point.

gitchogritchoffmypettis
Legend

See, thing is, I know the Reds aren’t trading Farmer, and I don’t see Mia making any whispers of letting Rojas go either. Why would those teams trade those guys?

VladimirTrout27
Trusted Member
1 year ago

Farmer is going to be 32 soon and Cincinnati is going nowhere. You’re for keeping him until 33, 34? I don’t see his value getting better. Rojas is 33. Those 2 teams would rather have prospects than aging infielders. Hey man I’m trying here. Could go for Cesar Hernandez who hits into double plays? lol. The other thing is Halos are desperate so if they’re calling, teams are gonna try to rob them. But you could say that was probably self-inflicted

Last edited 1 year ago by VladimirTrout27
Senator_John_Blutarsky
Legend

Vlad – that lineup still ain’t pretty.

DMAGZ13
Trusted Member
1 year ago

I’ve seen enough glimmers or sparkles of play to believe that there’s more talent in this roster than before but it’s just at rock bottom coaching / analytics/ culture. I think Perry is correct to say there are pieces on the team, but he’s incorrect to say it’s individual. I’m a teacher and if all my kids are failing them it’s really my fault not theirs. You always have A kids and I hate when teachers take full credit for that because those students will be great no matter what. The bottom will always be bottom minus massive personal changes. It’s on the middle group that you have the most influence.

I personally believe of you took the same exact team and depth chart but swapped coaches and front offices, they’d be at least .500.

That being said, Perry is not up to the task of head GM and de facto President of Baseball . That’s clear. He survived year 1.5 on common sense (hey we need pitching) but is really bad on in game management.

I still believe there are pieces to trade tough. He has rehabbed the rep enough to change League perspective that it’s really a culture problem vs talent.

DMAGZ13
Trusted Member
1 year ago
Reply to  DMAGZ13

I believe the Angels have some trade pieces that a smart org would sell high and get sneaky good prospects :

Walsh: could revert back to a power hitting bat on righties with a real coaching/ analytics staff. Could play a real role on upcoming team

Iglesias: shaky for sure, but could be closer or 8th inning guy for team trying to be Braves or Royals.

Ward: definitely played above his head for a month but would be useful to a real contender as a bench bat.

Fletcher utility guy that could be brought on to fill a middle IF role

Marsh OR Adell: flashes say they still have talent despite our terrible major league coaching.

Suzuki “ veteran presence” catcher

Syndergaard : is paying most salary means that there will be a need for a #3 starter material . Maybe another team unlocks velocity.

Lorenzen : someone who needs him in the bullpen.

These are guys that can get you maybe 5-6 prospects and maybe an OF bat with power and 3-4 power relievers. That’s the major glaring need. Guys that throw 100. Multiple

Last edited 1 year ago by DMAGZ13
gitchogritchoffmypettis
Legend
Reply to  DMAGZ13

And Ohtani. And Sandoval. Might as well trade them too. And you’ll probably get back 2/3 of what you’re thinking will come back to us…. it would be The Great Reset though.

GrandpaBaseball
Legend
1 year ago

Seriously Gitch, what do you believe the answer to turning this version of the Titanic around is?

gitchogritchoffmypettis
Legend

I actually want them to stay the course. Have a good draft this year. Keep developing prospects. Keep being stuck with Trout and Rendon and Iggy. I think we have Loup and Tepera and Bradley next year. Hope they progress to the norm cause they probably will. Add moar pitching and get a SS/2B and 4th OF. Keep developing Rengifo as a utility, Adell, Marsh, etc. Decide if you want to trade Ohtani and if so get a SP in return. Onward and upward.

I knew we weren’t winning the WS this year. Even when I thought we had an off shot at the play offs (we actually still do) it was a “F**k it, we’re makin the playoffs!” style hope. I never bought into the “THIS IS A MUST MAKE THE PLAYOFFS! YEEEEAAAR!” thing cause I don’t tuck my own dick and start crying when people say terms like “Trout Window” and “Wasted Ohtani” or start demanding post season time because “standards” or “been so long” or what ever cunty neeeeed people want to whine.

We have what we have. Things will go how they go. I say work with it. When orgs completely change course it almost never works, it just prolongs the suck. It seems like Arte’s adjusted his style some. Let’s let shit develop….. but that means booo hooo, we still aren’t the Astros yet. But go out, get mooaaarrr pitching, get some offense up the middle, get better this winter. See what happens.

Change for change sake is for bored housewives. Either hatch me a whole new plan (Full rebuild or 300M payroll) or stick with the plan we got.

ihearhowie3.0
Super Member
1 year ago

This is probably the most likely course of action. The time to rebuild was ~4 years ago, they’ve kinda boxed themselves into the middle since then.

Senator_John_Blutarsky
Legend
Reply to  ihearhowie3.0

…but that was the conventional wisdom 5 years ago. So we’re signed up for the 10 to 12 year “no rebuild” rebuild?

People who continue to feed Arte’s wallet are just stupid…and stupid of this level can’t be fixed.

Jeff Joiner
Editor
Legend
1 year ago
Reply to  DMAGZ13

I know the simulator is just a tool, but I’ve been playing around with this a ton lately.

Ward’s play has never been better but he also has just a 75 OPS+ since June. He might’ve had a good start to the season then turned back into Ward. Not sure what he’d net, but probably is our best trade chip.

Thor likely brings back a reliever or maybe a catcher depending on how much salary the Angels pay. And it would be worth it to pay most of the salary.

Lorenzen is on the IL and can’t be traded. He’ll need to both get back and show good velocity to have value. If he does, he’s netting a meh prospect as he’s also a rental. I’d really try to extend him before trading him.

Suzuki is toast and has no value.

Trading Iglesias would free up future payroll but not net a lot of talent. However, if there’s one area of upcoming talent on the farm it is bullpen help. Maybe offer to cover this year’s salary, grab an OK prospect, then be freer next year?

We need Fletcher too much to trade him, especially for what he’d net. There’s absolutely nobody on the farm ready to take his place and he’s not so great that he’d net a great return.

gitchogritchoffmypettis
Legend
Reply to  Jeff Joiner

But which starting pitcher will we get when we trade Escobar?

Cowboy26
Legend
1 year ago

Pablo? Isn’t he dead?

2GA2Join
Super Member
1 year ago
Reply to  Cowboy26

Can we bring back Eichhorn?

DowningDude
Legend
1 year ago
Reply to  2GA2Join

Always thought his name was wild … Not often you can put two H’s next to each other.

VladimirTrout27
Trusted Member
1 year ago

Ya know what’s funny is Quintana has reformed lol…. just saying

h27kim
Trusted Member
1 year ago

Another datum in our (expensive) castoffs being successfully repurposed elsewhere.

RexFregosi
Super Member
1 year ago
Reply to  Jeff Joiner

Ward has regressed from April, but as you say, he’s still has more value than Marsh and Adell (maybe).

I’d rather give up Adell/Marsh today than Ward. I’m not sure the difference in the return for any of the three would really be that much different anyways but today, I’d keep Ward.

Senator_John_Blutarsky
Legend
Reply to  RexFregosi

Ward will be 29 before next season. I’d keep the 23 year olds.

VladimirTrout27
Trusted Member
1 year ago

and controlled thru 2026. Being that they’ve overspent on other areas, he’s a cost effective player

Last edited 1 year ago by VladimirTrout27
h27kim
Trusted Member
1 year ago
Reply to  Jeff Joiner

Also, unless Fletch can prove that he’s healthy and productive, no GM would trade any more than a used baseball for him.

ihearhowie3.0
Super Member
1 year ago
Reply to  Jeff Joiner

Pretty high stakes trade deadline and draft for Perry this month to say the least.

Senator_John_Blutarsky
Legend
Reply to  ihearhowie3.0

So it’s the “most important draft of our lifetime” ?

I wonder where have I heard a shtick similar to that….. 😂

gitchogritchoffmypettis
Legend
Reply to  Twebur

Keep it up Jack Stephan.

Cowboy26
Legend
1 year ago
Reply to  Twebur

Yet 0 for 7 with runners on base. He needs to provide customer satisfaction 24/7.

Twebur
Legend
1 year ago
Reply to  Cowboy26

Using a Plumbers Snake to unclog those bases takes some time….clogged bases are an ongoing problem on this team. Lots of shit goes down those drains.

Cowboy26
Legend
1 year ago
Reply to  Twebur

Hopefully it doesn’t require a complete repiping.

Twebur
Legend
1 year ago
Reply to  Cowboy26

If it does, hope it doesn’t require Jackhammering the slab…..messy and costly.

Cowboy26
Legend
1 year ago
Reply to  Twebur

But can Jack pitch?

Jeff Joiner
Editor
Legend
1 year ago
Reply to  Twebur

And to me the glove looks like it plays at second. Not the best range I’ve ever seen, but far from the worst either. And he makes all the routine plays.

Granted, I haven’t been watching a ton. But if the knock on him was no glove, I’d say he’s probably more of a meh glove.

Fansince1971
Legend
1 year ago

I’m not sure this Organization cares about anything else than fans showing up and buying overpriced food and merchandise.

The two ways to do that is (1) win consistently and make the playoffs or (2) have ‘draw’ superstar players like Trout and/or Ohtani. By keeping folks in the seats and having high attendance, the value of the franchise remains maximized.

I think Arte recognizes this and started out really wanting to win (ie Option 1). His early years of ownership were definitely consistent with that. And the fans rewarded him by selling out Angel Stadium consistently. Season ticket sales exceeded 30,000 per game alone.

Now, with all the losing over the last 8 seasons, I think Arte has decided that option B is the most reliable way to keep fans in the seats and he cares less about winning. If you have a Trout AND Ohtani- folks will still come through the turnstiles in droves. So Cal loves it’s superstars.

I think Arte also is aware that all the losing will cause attendance to go down even with Trout and Ohtani in the lineup. Therefore the chances of increasing payroll are low as Arte will not risk losing money.

At the same time, Arte is not going to agree to blow it up because 3-5 years of 10,000!people showing up for games would lower the value of the franchise.

As a result, I expect the status quo. High priced superstars who put butts in seats and the rest scrubs.

Last edited 1 year ago by Fansince1971
Angels2020Champs
Super Member
1 year ago
Reply to  Fansince1971

trÅdition

fyasko51
Trusted Member
1 year ago
Reply to  Fansince1971

It looks like attendance has gone down. Last year, attendance took a dive. The home games look empty and the fans to do go are the away teams fans.

gitchogritchoffmypettis
Legend
Reply to  fyasko51

It is down…. even their BS attendance numbers that count a ton of empty seats as “sold” show a significant drop per game, around 7000 from 2019…. the reality could be twice that as I doubt ticket brokers are doing crazy business at the big A. The place looks half full most of the time cause it is, and that’s with a bunch of Japanese tourists coming to sit in the sun, look at their phones, and then watch 4 Ohtani at bats.

He’s gonna need to eventually build a winner in order to make money, which he likes. He probably has spread sheets that have shown him that “human billboards” don’t work…. though I think Trout’s the last one of those unless he extends Ohtani. Guys like Rendon or Upton weren’t signed for that purpose, again, there are spreadsheets that will tell him if a guy is a big attendance driver before you sign him.

So he’s in a hole. He’s gotta dig out either way. Let’s hope he does it via the farm and development.

gitchogritchoffmypettis
Legend
Reply to  Fansince1971

Gah I hope you’re right. Just cause I’ve had to read this same f***ing idea so many times on here that I want it to actually happen to you guys. Just have Trout, Rendon, maybe Ohtani, and guys like Rengifo. Let’s do it! Don’t even waste money on guys like Raisel, Thor, etc. Steven Dugger is available, so is Gosselin…. I want Gossselin to start 150 games next year. Let’s really do the “butts in seats” team!

The only way it could get better is the “full tear down” team where Brandon Marsh is our best player next year. I’d also love for that to happen to a bunch of CtPG cause I’m a people pleaser and I want folks to get what they ask for.

DowningDude
Legend
1 year ago

Where is the petition to sign? I can use moar Brandon

Fansince1971
Legend
1 year ago

Hey – it’s not what I want at all. I want a solid, well constructed ballclub and a solid farm system providing new players and depth.

But what I want doesn’t matter.

gitchogritchoffmypettis
Legend
Reply to  Fansince1971

We are all greek olive farmers shaking our fists at Olympus.

Cowboy26
Legend
1 year ago

Opa! Opa!

red floyd
Legend
1 year ago

I’ve been a hardcore fan for over 50 years. At this point, I don’t give a shit. That’s how bad this is.

benjiface
Trusted Member
1 year ago
Reply to  red floyd

There are no words at this point

Jeff Joiner
Editor
Legend
1 year ago
Reply to  red floyd

Most disappointing year in a long, long time.

SC_Halo
Trusted Member
1 year ago
Reply to  Jeff Joiner

agree and that’s saying a lot considering the 1987-2001 years of missing the playoffs. 1995 for that 16 year abyss is like the 2014 season in our current run of misery away from postseason.

jefeRey14x
Member
1 year ago
Reply to  red floyd

Yeah. I feel this too. The promise was solid. So far to fall.

gitchogritchoffmypettis
Legend
Reply to  red floyd

I have been an Angels fan for 150 years! I hate the Vernon Tigers! I miss Gene Lillard…. and stadiums that can burn down with a single dropped cigarette….. and cigarettes…. I haven’t been this disappointed since those candy assed ballplayers started wearing mits.

Angels2020Champs
Super Member
Brent
Super Member
1 year ago

Next thing you’ll tell me is hockey players, including goalies, will start wearing helmets/masks. Psh.

Marshallx89
Member
1 year ago

After dropping the series to Baltimore, i’m convinced we have to move pretty much any asset of value that will not be in the picture in the next 2-3 years as that is now our window to win. If we try to be buyers at the deadline (or do nothing) we’ll just remain a ~.500 ball team.

max
Trusted Member
max
1 year ago
Reply to  Marshallx89

I dream of .500

Fansince1971
Legend
1 year ago
Reply to  max

Yep that’s a dreamer

h27kim
Trusted Member
1 year ago
Reply to  max

I fully expect that we’ll fail at properly tanking and wind up just a bit below .500 by the end of the season, with like 76 wins.

max
Trusted Member
max
1 year ago
Reply to  h27kim

trAdish

gitchogritchoffmypettis
Legend
Reply to  Marshallx89

But the Trout window.

Senator_John_Blutarsky
Legend

Trout window

comment image

Brent
Super Member
1 year ago

Some windows don’t have the capability of opening.

James
Trusted Member
1 year ago

This team needs to figure something out fast and fix this mess if they have any aspirations of retaining Ohtani long term. The ⏰ is ticking here.

gitchogritchoffmypettis
Legend
Reply to  James

Trade Ohtani. I don’t like it. But the “change” everyone wants will involve trading Sandoval and Ohtani…. not Rendon.

Jeff Joiner
Editor
Legend
1 year ago

I’d hate to trade Ohtani, but it could do wonders for us in many facets.

For one it would net a big haul of talent. Probably a starting pitcher and a starting position player to go along with a nice prospect or two. For a team this top heavy, that would be great.

Secondly it would clear up lineup construction.

We could go with the more traditional 5 man rotation, meaning one less starter is needed, creating one more guy’s worth of depth.

We could rotate more guys through the DH spot and create more lineup flexibility.

gitchogritchoffmypettis
Legend
Reply to  Jeff Joiner

The “HE PITCHES AND HE HITS!” thing is cool and all, but it’s also kind of starting to make me feel like a Maserati owner.

Senator_John_Blutarsky
Legend
Reply to  Jeff Joiner

At the very least, PTP should find out Ohtani’s value in the open market.

max
Trusted Member
max
1 year ago

‘In the open market’ means what? Free Agency? not trying to be obtuse

Senator_John_Blutarsky
Legend
Reply to  max

Sorry – my wording was bad. The intent was to test his value prior to this trade deadline.

h27kim
Trusted Member
1 year ago

Oh, I suspect that offers are coming in–not sure how serious they are, though.

ihearhowie3.0
Super Member
1 year ago
Reply to  Jeff Joiner

One of the under-thought about parts about having Rendon, Trout AND Ohtani is that only 1 of them can DH for the next 5 years.

The PR hit for trading Ohtani would be devastating for Arte. They’d have to win almost immediately after kinda like the Nationals post-Bryce for it to not sink him permanently with fans.

Senator_John_Blutarsky
Legend
Reply to  ihearhowie3.0

Arte is 100% industrial grade teflon. If the drug dealing employee contributing to the death of a player didn’t dent him, nothing will.

2GA2Join
Super Member
1 year ago
Reply to  James

I’m concerned that train has already sailed.

Ohtani wants to be on a winner.

Ohtani has power to decide who he will play for after 2023.

If we are going to trade Ohtani, we really better do it before the first game of 2023, to get maximum value. If we’re going to trade him, we need to get maximum value. It is going to hurt so enormously much emotionally and historically to lose Ohtani already… so we need to get good players that make this team better.

If I put all those pieces above together, to get Ohtani here long term would mean we’d have to show him we can be a winner before first pitch in 2023. Given how bad we look, I’m not sure that is possible.

Cowboy26
Legend
1 year ago
Reply to  2GA2Join

I would love to keep Ohtani. Hopefully the ship hasn’t left the station too.

Angels2020Champs
Super Member
1 year ago
Reply to  Cowboy26

Trains leave stations, ships leave yards (like I said, grammar nazi humor is fun too!). Woohoo being a NZ citizen!! I learned English before American

comment image?noredirect

Cowboy26
Legend
1 year ago

Danke fur diesen Kapitän Offensichtlich

comment image

Angels2020Champs
Super Member
1 year ago
Reply to  Cowboy26

I get the joke, I’m making fun of myself… in every post today I’ve included multiple typos, after the first all on purpose.

Just trying to get people to laugh AT me at this point and I think I’ve succeeded with you, whew. Took a min.

Or I guess we can go back to fixing all the Angels problems, they sure like listening to us 🙄

Haven’t seen LanaBanana and Gia around here as much, can’t say I blame them in this environment. I’ve always held them in high regard, must be tough be an Angels fan and get the machismo treatment around here. Hope you ladies are well, please come back soo to give us some much need diversity!! Might help if the angels play well, so Go Angels!!

h27kim
Trusted Member
1 year ago

I thought Kiwis spoke a dialect of Australian? 😛

Last edited 1 year ago by h27kim
MarineLayer
Super Member
1 year ago

Ultimately, Minasian soft pedals just how bad he’s done so far and fails to explain how he will fix things. His level of cluelessness is distressing, but unsurprising. This interview also proves Arturo must move on to the next low-paid, inexperienced intern. I bet there a dozen or more commenters here who could do a better job for the money Arturo pays. Who would you nominate to replace him?

YOUknowulovetheIE
Trusted Member
1 year ago
Reply to  MarineLayer

I think he built the right team, injuries just screwed this team, once again. I’m over the gm musical chairs. Give the guy 5 years.

MarineLayer
Super Member
1 year ago

Cool. Trout will be 35 and Ohtani will be long gone.

Sorry, the middle infield, outfield depth, catcher depth were always going to be a problem. There is a foreseeable lack of high end starting pitching, and Minasian totally whiffed on Loup, Bradley, and Tepera. Expensive and crappy is a bad look. I’m giving him a pass on Iglesias because I supported that move. Rendon’s injury was foreseeable given he never even recovered from last year’s injury and there was no Plan B. Other teams seem to be able to make good waiver wire pickups. Villar is better than nothing, but there is so much more that already needed to be done. Other than that, he’s been awesome.

Cowboy26
Legend
1 year ago
Reply to  MarineLayer

Are you tracking our minor leagues? I realize we are not stuffing the MLB 100 lists but the talent level is rising while some of our athletic projects from the past are starting to show life.

There is no question that Arte will need to spend more to improve this ball club. But The only way out of this mess even if Arte spends a billion dollars on payroll is to rebuild our farm system. Considering its status after both JeDi and Epps ran it into the ground, I like what Perry is doing there. His major league moves have been way less than inspiring so why not hire a POBO to keep the progress the organization has made intact while completing a highly competitive major league roster?

Fansince1971
Legend
1 year ago
Reply to  Cowboy26

I agree 100%

gitchogritchoffmypettis
Legend
Reply to  Cowboy26

I’m still unclear…. or not sure what other people think is clear…. about what a POBO does. It’s like the POBO is Prester John for CtPG. What is it that you think a POBO will be doing that PTP is NOT doing? And more importantly, how do you see him/her/zximer/thar/it getting that done?

2GA2Join
Super Member
1 year ago

Does? All this time I thought POBO was Perfectly Organized and Balanced Organization?
That’s why everyone keeps saying that if we get POBO then all our problems are fixed?
 😀 

DowningDude
Legend
1 year ago
Reply to  2GA2Join

I thought we were all pining for Peter Bourjos.

gitchogritchoffmypettis
Legend
Reply to  2GA2Join

Ohhhhhhh…. yeah, I want that.

Cowboy26
Legend
1 year ago

Well in this case it would be someone who could effectively oversee all aspects of the organization not just trades & free agency but also the draft and the player development. And, more importantly someone who is in place so that the Owner won’t meddle in ongoing baseball operations.

Pretty much what Bill Stoneman did from 2003 until his retirement in 2009. Other than lowering beer prices , Arte pretty much just let those he was paying run his baseball team.

Last edited 1 year ago by Cowboy26
gitchogritchoffmypettis
Legend
Reply to  Cowboy26

You mean…. the General Manager? That’s what a GM does.

Does anyone on this website actually know what a POBO does…. other than give us fantasies re “stopping the owner from owning and stuff” which I’m 100% sure a POBO that is paid by an owner doesn’t actually do?

Fansince1971
Legend
1 year ago

To my understanding a POBO runs all of the baseball decisions from scouting, player development, MLB roster decisions etc. Marketing decisions are kept separate.

The only reporting would be to the owner re budget. From that point on it’s the POBO running the show.

gitchogritchoffmypettis
Legend
Reply to  Fansince1971

See, that just sounds like a bunch of CtPG bullshit strung together…

Baseball. Scouting. Development. Roster. Hero.
Marketing. Drug pushing. Trump. Evil. Malvado.

I’m gonna need a source for this other than the guys you keep seeing repeat this on here.

Marketing and huge roster decisions are never separate and never made without the owner involved. I want to see the the article where the Cardinals owner is like “I woke up one morning and looked at the news on my phone… Holy shit, we traded for Goldschmidt AND extended him!!? Then, like a year later I almost choked on some pizza when I saw on TV we traded for Arenado! That crazy POBO. I just leave everything to him!”

h27kim
Trusted Member
1 year ago

I agree that someone who just has the title of POBO without full authority over the entirety of baseball operation while the owner takes the back seat is no POBO. I also doubt that this is very likely to happen, ever, as long as Arte owns the team.

Last edited 1 year ago by h27kim
Cowboy26
Legend
1 year ago
Reply to  h27kim

I doubt anyone of any ability or notoriety would take a non-titular head POBO position without getting damn near full autonomy.

This is why we need this position filled.

gitchogritchoffmypettis
Legend
Reply to  MarineLayer

You realize that most grown ups with complex duties can usually perceive several issues that will likely arise… and also, at the same time, realize that they will likely not be able to fix all those issues in say one season, so they do their best to mitigate them, knowing some of those efforts will fail, while having a larger long term plan that addresses the whole organization.

It’s called compartmentalizing. It’s what real life grown ups do. I seriously doubt that, in internal meetings that you weren’t invited to because you don’t matter, PTP came across as a lot less clueless when discussing the middle infield depth, etc.

I’m also sure that none of the GMs out there were like “Tepera, Loup and Bradley!?! That’s gonna be a disaster.”

He’s just got to stay the course with his Braves/Brewers/Cardinals/Blue Jays FO hires and work on that farm. It’s the most reliable way to have options when it comes to addressing multiple roster issues. Till then, it’s gonna be patchwork.

ihearhowie3.0
Super Member
1 year ago

At this point the farm is the only way he gets another GM job again.

steelgolf
Super Member
1 year ago

I’m with you, give PTP 5 years to build a team, and hopefully fill voids with home grown talent.

gitchogritchoffmypettis
Legend
Reply to  steelgolf

NO! Only constant change and turn over can get an organization the results we need!

Jeff Joiner
Editor
Legend
1 year ago

I think he made the right pitching moves but his position player moves and management are sorely lacking.

He brought in a bunch of scrubs and hoped one would pan out as a SS. Same way Eppler built a bullpen and with the same results. This resulted in not only a starting lineup that was lacking, but also a lack of depth for the inevitable injury or two.

He cut Upton while the team was still in Tempe, setting off a shortage of OF’ers for months. I’m not saying Upton was the savior, but we had Jose Rojas in the outfield during the opening homestand.

Instead of learning from that shortage, he sent Adell down to AAA and DFA’d Thomas, leading to Tyler Wade starting in center.

I liked all of the pitching moves he made, although the contract to Iggy worried me a bit.

2GA2Join
Super Member
1 year ago
Reply to  Jeff Joiner

Yes, this. I don’t blame Perry for Loup/Tepera/Bradley. At the time, everyone was like “wow, good bullpen he’s built this year”.
Now that said, I’m not sure “why” those players are all suddenly regressing this year… it could be partly bad coaching/management here, which is Perry’s responsibility.

Jeff Joiner
Editor
Legend
1 year ago
Reply to  2GA2Join

Definitely.

Once again players who left the Angels are having resurgent years: Quintana, Jose Iglesias (who improved immediately upon leaving last year), etc.

2GA2Join
Super Member
1 year ago
Reply to  Jeff Joiner

big time ouch

gitchogritchoffmypettis
Legend
Reply to  2GA2Join

comment image

smithy610
Super Member
1 year ago
Reply to  Jeff Joiner

He cut Upton while the team was still in Tempe, setting off a shortage of OF’ers for months. I’m not saying Upton was the savior, but we had Jose Rojas in the outfield during the opening homestand.

He cut Upton because they were going with Taylor Ward in the OF. The plan was Marsh-Trout-Ward. Unfortunately, Ward got injured during Spring Training.

Perry has not been perfect, and there are a enough things to blame him for, but Rojas being an OF for a very short while wasn’t one of them IMO. Ward’s vast improvement this season actually shows Perry’s (and Maddon’s) decision to stick with him and cut Upton was the right one. It was just unfortunate that Ward hasn’t been healthy all year long as we would have preferred him to be.

gitchogritchoffmypettis
Legend
Reply to  smithy610

“He did exactly what we’d been clamoring for for years and I hate him hate him hate him!!!”

ihearhowie3.0
Super Member
1 year ago
Reply to  smithy610

Trout gets hurt every year. The OF depth needed to be much more legit behind Adell and Marsh considering the high likelihood at least one of them flamed out. Rojas and Wade playing outfield this year has been one of the big, clear things you’d point to as a failure of the front office.

Upton probably needed to go but his departure should have also brought a Dexter Fowler league minimum guy right away. Lagares ended up being that eventually to crappy results but he or someone like him should have been in place before opening day.

Last edited 1 year ago by ihearhowie3.0
ihearhowie3.0
Super Member
1 year ago
Reply to  Jeff Joiner

100% agree there appears to be a lot of learning on the fly with Perry that I think Maddon even alluded to on his way out. He said something to the effect of “Perry is new at this” which was subtle but man did it perk my ears up.

h27kim
Trusted Member
1 year ago

No, he did not build the “right” team. I think he took the big risks for a short term gamble. (To be fair, I was happy that he did and I’m still unsure if I should be unhappy.) The “right” team, though, would not have been feasible given the limits likely imposed by the owner (and, again, the kind of approach that Dodgers took when the new ownership came in is not the kind of thing that almost any team would take on–i.e. take on loads of bad contracts with prospects, bloat the payroll, and release them, but also deepen the roster along the way, etc..

gitchogritchoffmypettis
Legend
Reply to  MarineLayer

It’s so true. When a guy doesn’t just come out and tell you everything you are already thinking…. maybe even doesn’t tell you everything he’s thinking…. this is an obvious sign that a man is clueless.

If only we could all tap into the tactical genius of Simple Jack the way some folks on CtPG do.

ihearhowie3.0
Super Member
1 year ago

There are enough crumbs now during his time here to suggest Perry is at the minimum showing inexperience and learning curves. Something you’d think the team would want to avoid after a string of failed first-time GMs.

At worst he’s showing that he’s someone that’s miscast as the main decision maker and was better cast as part of the peanut gallery just offering ideas.

Rallymanatee
Trusted Member
1 year ago

Has anybody brought up how much it would improve the pitching situation if Ohtani could learn how to pitch in a regular 5-man rotation? How many more starts a season might he get, 10ish? And conversely, how many fewer would go to the Suarez/Silseth/TBD/bullpen opener? When a team only has 2-3 reliable starters, a 6-man rotation is a terrible idea.

Cowboy26
Legend
1 year ago
Reply to  Rallymanatee

This is an interesting concept. I just wonder with his 2 way status if this is even doable.

Last edited 1 year ago by Cowboy26
gitchogritchoffmypettis
Legend
Reply to  Rallymanatee

I think the value of this should totally be explored. Ohtani’s a great DH, but it’s not all that hard to find a solid DH. Ohtani’s got an .820 OPS. Trey Mancini has .779, Garret Cooper .827, Hunter Dozier .785.

Getting “stuck” with a mix of guys like that and maybe Adell/MacKinnon may not be the end of the world, especially if you get some guys who will DH and fill in at positions AND you get 5 more Ohtani starts.

The sticker is that, though it may be smart, no one wants to see Ohtani just pitch, and Ohtani doesn’t want to just pitch, so there’s that.

Rallymanatee
Trusted Member
1 year ago

Why couldn’t he pitch and hit if it were a 5 man rotation? What am I missing? He pitches and hits in game 1 and then DHs 4 games with occasional days off.

Senator_John_Blutarsky
Legend

Love that draft choices can now be traded…

Atlanta and Kansas City are finalizing a trade that will send center-field prospect Drew Waters, right-handed pitching prospect Andrew Hoffmann and a third minor leaguer to the Royals for the 35th pick in Sunday’s draft, which has a $2.2 million slot value, sources tell ESPN.

jcstein
Trusted Member
1 year ago

Only the competitive balance picks.

Cowboy26
Legend
1 year ago
Reply to  jcstein

Atlanta trades 3 minor leaguers for a CB draft pick? They must have targeted someone they really like.

Last edited 1 year ago by Cowboy26
MarineLayer
Super Member
1 year ago
Reply to  Cowboy26

it would be so cool if we had a brain trust like them.

Cowboy26
Legend
1 year ago
Reply to  MarineLayer

Apparently we got the wrong side of their brain.

DowningDude
Legend
1 year ago

I got an email from MLB saying that Ohtani was also selected as a pitcher to the ASG.

Ah, Bollinger reported yesterday:
https://twitter.com/RhettBollinger/status/1546247417577803778

MarineLayer
Super Member
1 year ago
Reply to  DowningDude

So we have two ASG starters and we’re one of the very worst teams in the AL. So 2022.

Senator_John_Blutarsky
Legend
Reply to  MarineLayer

This is why being selected to the ASG is just an individual accomplishment and reflects nothing on team success. This is why Ohtani and Trout are great for entertainment purposes, but insignificant as it relates to the Angels winning championships. Yes, I know there’s a lot wrong that contributes to the losing record. However, its still a fact that having “Babe Ruth” and “Mickey Mantle” on the roster has not generated wins or championships.

MarineLayer
Super Member
1 year ago

I couldn’t agree more. It means you have to spend a lot more on payroll to give them teammates who can help them actually win on the field. If you’re going to be cheap, then you have act like Oakland and TB, constantly trading away expensive assets for cheaper future talent. Arturo doesn’t do either, and has no infrastructure to improve through the draft or finding diamonds in the rough.