Cinco de Mayo Ruined by Maddon, Angels lose 3-1

After a brutal few weeks, it looked to be a win maybe. Shohei Ohtani pitched again but didn’t hit. While wild per usual, he was filthy. 5+ innings, 7 strikeouts, 6 walks, and only 1 hit. All with no runs allowed. The offense, both hands behind their backs, were able to get a run. But then, when it seemed things were going well for once, Maddon brought in Junior Guerra who blew the game and got only 1 out.

Yes, the offense blew chance after chance to score more and they deserve 49% of the blame, but Maddon gets the 51%.

Recap

The Wild Ohtani-San

It was a tense start to the game as Ohtani was wild per usual. He didn’t allow a run in the first, however. The offense took offense to that and did squat.

So Ohtani went out there again. A bit more control this time and got through the second cleanly. The offense did nothing again although they actually tried.

Shohei now looked calm and pitched more confidently, he allowed a hit but no runs. The offense, desperate, went old school. After Rojas got a double down the line, back to back bunts made it 2nd and 3rd with one out. Trout was IBB-ed and Walsh was regularly walked to get the Angels a run. Only 1 run though. 1-0 Angels.

It looked to be a 1-2-3 inning for Ohtani, but then a 4 pitch walk ruined that. He did get the best batter though, giving everyone a sigh of relief. A bloops single and a HBP gave them 2 runners on with no outs. Instead, a K and a line drive double play meant no runs.

That’s fine. Because Ohtani had himself a 1-2-3 5th inning. Trout got hit by pitch again. Right on the elbow pad. Again. Fans were not happy. No runs again. Still 1-0 Angels.

But as usual, things fell apart in the 6th. Two wild walks was too much for Maddon and C-rod came in.

C-rod Time

C-rod came in and broke a bat. A gb out but runners at the corners. Then he hit the next guy in an 0-2 pitch. But he was able to get the gidp to keep the lead. And then the offense did squat.

Maddon what are you doing?

So instead of using C-rod to go multiple innings, he only goes one and Guerra comes in for the 7th. And he blew it. He was as wild as Ohtani but without the stuff. So he gave up a 3 run bomb and ruined the great game of Ohtani. It was after that he was pulled.

Slegers came in after to not make it worse and he did his job. Almost like you would use him instead. 3-1 Rays still. Not that the Angels can score again.

Aaron allowed a double but nothing else in the 8th. He was ready to come in. And he did his job right. But the offense can’t say the same. Get two in, gidp. No runs. Same old same old.

Claudio came in and pitched a clean 9th. Which just makes the earlier decision worse. It was the last chance for the Angels to come back. And they went down quietly.

Coming up

The Angels loss makes them 13-16 on the year. The team will try to avoid being swept tomorrow. Please drink responsibly.

85 Comments
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johnlweitzel
Member
5 months ago

Someone in the bullpen told the pitching coach, “yea, Guerra is ready.” That was a lie. He pitched what – 3 over the plate.

2002heaven
Trusted Member
5 months ago

Yet another defining series against the other 2020 World Series team ( good thing we didn’t play against them last season during the regular season ) and we got trashed just like we did against the Dodgers. They traded away Blake Snell and they’re still kicking our ass without him. 😩  💩 

AnAngelsFan
Trusted Member
5 months ago

6 walks in 5 innings is not a great game.

Simba
Member
5 months ago
Reply to  AnAngelsFan

Ryan was a bit like that, at least in the early days. Lot of walks, lot of Ks. Ryan was about 10Ks/9, 6 BB/9, Shohei is at 14.5 K/9, 9 BB/9. So actually more extreme than Ryan.

AnAngelsFan
Trusted Member
5 months ago
Reply to  Simba

He did not have a 14.5 K/9 and 9 BB/9 rate last night. He had a 12.6 K/9 and a 10.8 BB/9 rate. I’m not saying Shohei is a bad pitcher. I’m not even saying last night was a bad game. I’m saying last night does not meet the definition of great.

If Shoehei had pitched a great game, Maddon wouldn’t have had to use Chris Rodriguez until the 7th inning and Guerra never would have touched the mound.

Simba
Member
5 months ago
Reply to  AnAngelsFan

Fair enough, but 0 runs earned is all you can ask, other than more innings. He has yet to go beyond 5, which of course is a stark difference between Shohei and Ryan.

FungoAle
Super Member
5 months ago
Reply to  Brent

..and we did not even brush back their best hitter. Soft team, no fiery attitudes.

AnAngelsFan
Trusted Member
5 months ago
Reply to  FungoAle

Shohei threw inside twice to the next batter, including a 3-0 pitch that almost nailed the guy. It was subtle, but I think that was Shohei’s way of sending message. He just isn’t the kind of guy that would actually intentionally bean someone.

Chris Rodriguez couldn’t afford to send a brush back pitch, because there were too many guys on base. Guerra can’t afford to give up a pitch, and after Guerra gave up a home run, Slegers and Claudio would have looked petty if they had thrown at someone.

JackFrost
Super Member
5 months ago
Reply to  AnAngelsFan

Rodriquez DID hit a guy. That was partly how the bases got loaded. He then got out of it with the GIDP.

AnAngelsFan
Trusted Member
5 months ago
Reply to  JackFrost

He hit him with an 84 mph curveball on an 0-2 count. I’m pretty sure Rodriguez wasn’t protecting Trout with that one.

JackFrost
Super Member
5 months ago
Reply to  AnAngelsFan

Gotcha. I did not watch on tv but instead followed on GAMEDAY and did not see that it was a curve.

Last edited 5 months ago by JackFrost
Angels2020Champs
Super Member
5 months ago
Reply to  JackFrost

The curve hit his back foot after he hopped too

AnAngelsFan
Trusted Member
5 months ago
Reply to  JackFrost

I watched on TV and to me it looked like Shohei was sending a sign for the first batter after Trout’s walk. He went inside with a splitter early in the at-bat and then when there were 3 balls he threw a fastball inside that was close enough it took a second to figure out if it was ball 4 or a HBP.

It certainly wasn’t a clear message, but I got the impression Shohei decided to concede ball 4 and send a subtle message. But, of course, he walked the next guy too, so maybe he was just wild.

DowningDude
Super Member
5 months ago
Reply to  JackFrost

I’m always fascinated with how people spell Rodriguez with a Q (Rodriquez) … i mean that letter on the keyboard is out in left field … HOW DOES THIS HAPPEN?

Fansince1971
Super Member
5 months ago

Sad thing is that the pitching has been better than the offense.

Fansince1971
Super Member
5 months ago
Reply to  Fansince1971

Meaning the last few games.

AdelitasBarTJ
Member
5 months ago

Cinco de Stinko

DowningDude
Super Member
5 months ago
Reply to  AdelitasBarTJ

Stinko de Mayo

Senator_John_Blutarsky
Super Member
5 months ago

BTW: Detmers got lit up last night. 1.2 IP, 3 runs, 3 hits, 1 HR. 16.20 ERA.

Yes, just one game and he will have better.

AdelitasBarTJ
Member
5 months ago

Detmers is an overrated, low ceiling, low velocity, and low spin nibbler. Guess it makes him the perfect Angel pitcher.

Senator_John_Blutarsky
Super Member
5 months ago
Reply to  AdelitasBarTJ

That skill set worked well for Greg Maddux.

Just sayin’

JackFrost
Super Member
5 months ago

Maddux- the exception that proves the rule.

He is probably the one pitcher in Major League history who was dominant without having a blow you away fastball.

Not likely that Detmers is another Maddux.

Last edited 5 months ago by JackFrost
2002heaven
Trusted Member
5 months ago
Reply to  JackFrost

There’s a lot of non hard throwing aces ( Scott McGregor, Jim Palmer, Dennis Leonard, Walker Buehler, SHANE BIEBER!!, Mike Boddicker threw slower and slower and slowest. Comes down to movement and command which this team can’t seem to find anymore. This team hasn’t developed a All-Star pitcher ( either reliever or starter since the 2000’s ( Jered Weaver, K-Rod, Ervin Santana, and John Lackey……yes we went the entire 2010’s decade without a home grown All-Star pitcher after 2009. ). 😖  💩 

JackFrost
Super Member
5 months ago
Reply to  2002heaven

Dude, I understand about movement. If you read my comments from a couple of days ago I talked alot about the relative value of off-speed pitches vs. fastballs and discussed movement (I pointed out that if a pitcher lacks a power fastball he can make up for it with good movement on a two-seam fastball or cutter).

Of the guys you mentioned only Jim Palmer is in the Hall of Fame and could be considered “truly dominant” and on the level of a Maddux. I didn’t grow up seeing Palmer play, and only saw him towards the end of his career, but I would think his fastball was around 94 or so at least when he was younger. I don’t think the data on speed is available for the older guys. But I’ll give you Palmer.

Still, I think the overall point is a valid one. Bieber’s avg fastball velo over his career is about 93 mph so I guess he is an outlier for current pitchers.

Walker Buehler on the other hand has an average fastball velo of 96.6 mph over his career, so he supports my contention as his fastball is very good.

As for our guys (Angels) Weaver would be a counter argument as his fastball was never great with a career avg speed of 88 mph. But even though I loved Weave I would not call him “dominant” since he really only had two great seasons over a 12 year career (2011 and 2012).

Lackey I would not call dominant either as he had only one season with an ERA below 3.00 and that came with the Cardinals.

Most of the other well-known Halos hurlers were all classic heat guys, including Clyde Wright, Frank Tanana, Bo Belinsky, and of course Nolan Ryan.

But I do agree that we have developed very few stud pitchers.

DMAGZ13
Trusted Member
5 months ago

I don’t get the excitement over Detmers tbh. He’s a soft tossing lefty that’s not going to miss many MLB bats. Sounds like a worse Canning

Senator_John_Blutarsky
Super Member
5 months ago
Reply to  DMAGZ13

The only excitement is that he’s all we got.

JackFrost
Super Member
5 months ago
Reply to  DMAGZ13

Tend to agree. He was leftover table scraps from the draft.

He was what you got if you were not high enough to get the top three or four guys….

Senator_John_Blutarsky
Super Member
5 months ago

When the manager makes the decision to put a player into a game, the decision was made with the full expectation that the player will perform. If Junior shouldn’t be in the game, then Junior shouldn’t be on the roster.

Perry constructed the roster, if we seek to cast blame – he’s the BOTG.

WallyChuckChili
Super Member
5 months ago

Update: Breaking News

We have a longer losing(4), than a winning(3) streak.

Now if we win tomorrow and Sweep the dodgers…

Nevermind.

Last edited 5 months ago by WallyChuckChili
UtahAlumnus
Trusted Member
5 months ago

Big “if” if I’ve ever seen one lol

WallyChuckChili
Super Member
5 months ago
Reply to  UtahAlumnus

comment image

Senator_John_Blutarsky
Super Member
5 months ago

comment image

Fansince1971
Super Member
5 months ago

I’m sad for her

UtahAlumnus
Trusted Member
5 months ago
Reply to  Fansince1971

Isn’t a contusion just an owie? Really justify the IL for that?

H.T. Ennis
Admin
Super Member
5 months ago
Reply to  UtahAlumnus

They probably felt that he was the furthest from returning of him, Upton, and Stassi, and we really needed another body (Ward) tonight

Mia
Super Member
Mia
5 months ago

Not what you want to see.

Eric_in_Portland
Super Member
5 months ago

While we might be in last place in our division we are not last in the AL, just 13th of 15

Angels2020Champs
Super Member
5 months ago

We will will 7 of 10 to close the season to secure 12th pick in draft

Eric_in_Portland
Super Member
5 months ago

I don’t need a translation. I can read that perfectly.

Fansince1971
Super Member
5 months ago

Remember the days when you were translating to 100+ wins?

Eric_in_Portland
Super Member
5 months ago
Reply to  Fansince1971

I sure do. Those were great days. Let’s see. 7-3. So that’s like 113 wins. Yippee!

WallyChuckChili
Super Member
5 months ago

CRod shoulder irritation

Eric_in_Portland
Super Member
5 months ago

Seriously?

Angels2020Champs
Super Member
5 months ago

Are we really surprised??

Time to pay $100s to see our minors play at the big A

WallyChuckChili
Super Member
5 months ago

Joe just said it

GrandpaBaseball
Super Member
5 months ago

Yep and I knew some excuse was coming back to us so he did not have to say I blew it.

JackFrost
Super Member
5 months ago

You think Joe made that up about the shoulder irritation?

If you are right and that comes I out I can tell you I’ll be done with Joe (as a supporter). That would be the worse case scenario since it would mean that not only has he lost all his instinct, his common sense as a game manager, but more damning than that would be that he has no integrity and lacks the leadership I thought he had, which is to take ownership of one’s mistakes.

I hope you’re wrong and think you probably are. But if you’re right that is pretty damning for Joe Maddon.

Last edited 5 months ago by JackFrost
Fansince1971
Super Member
5 months ago

Grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change; the courage to change the things I can and the wisdom to know the difference.

H.T. Ennis
Admin
Super Member
5 months ago

https://twitter.com/Jack_A_Harris/status/1390172319134326785

As I mentioned in the gamethread, Guerra-Mayers-Iglesias for 7-8-9 is defensible. I would, in fact, prefer it to trying to get 9 outs from Mayers and Iglesias.

Angels2020Champs
Super Member
5 months ago
Reply to  H.T. Ennis

And I was being belittled for saying we still had 9 outs to get and they weren’t coming from a just off the IL Mayers and Iglesias who WE KNOW can’t pitch in 3/4 a reliever’s situations

JackFrost
Super Member
5 months ago
Reply to  H.T. Ennis

What about keeping CRod in ? He is the best reliever you have right now?

Why fail to mention that, the most obvious thing to do at that moment.?

You potentially still have the other guys for 8th and 9th. You need to get the maximum value out of your best reliever, no ?

H.T. Ennis
Admin
Super Member
5 months ago
Reply to  JackFrost

That was with the caveat that CRod was injured, which it appears he might be. I didn’t cushion this particular comment because I thought I implied it with the linked tweet.

Are you able to see the tweet in the above comment? Just curious because I don’t know if/how it shows up to different people.

Angels2020Champs
Super Member
5 months ago
Reply to  H.T. Ennis

Everyone has the right answer when they’re sitting back making decisions for a team and players we as fans know little about. Reality played out and we found out CRid wasn’t feeling tip too. We have no depth. And what we have to begin with outside a few shiny pieces are questionable at best.

Last edited 5 months ago by Angels2020Champs
JackFrost
Super Member
5 months ago

BTW, I DID issue the caveat in the game thread that my criticism of Maddon was only if CRod was not injured. So I was smart enough to realize that it could have been the reason he was pulled. 😉

JackFrost
Super Member
5 months ago
Reply to  H.T. Ennis

Okay thanks. I did not open the link.

If CRod is injured then Joe is off the hook in my book. As I mentioned in the game thread my heavy criticism of Joe was given the caveat that CRod was not injured.

H.T. Ennis
Admin
Super Member
5 months ago
Reply to  JackFrost

It appears as a link? Interesting. The tweet looks embedded to me. I will have to poke around and see how the features work.

Are you on mobile or desktop?

JackFrost
Super Member
5 months ago
Reply to  H.T. Ennis

Using my iPhone right now.

JackFrost
Super Member
5 months ago
Reply to  H.T. Ennis

Perhaps I am not using the terminology correctly, but it looks like a “link” to me.

H.T. Ennis
Admin
Super Member
5 months ago
Reply to  JackFrost

Just checked on my phone, and yes you are right, it just displays a link. On my laptop the entire contents of the tweet are shown without my having to click anything.

This was enlightening, as I now know I will have to describe the contents of any tweets I post so I don’t miss anyone.

Hope you have a good night!

Charles Sutton
Editor
Trusted Member
5 months ago
Reply to  H.T. Ennis

When you are logged in it appears embedded and when you are logged out it looks like a link.

WallyChuckChili
Super Member
5 months ago

We are wasting shohei Ohtani!!!

WallyChuckChili
Super Member
5 months ago

comment image

DMAGZ13
Trusted Member
5 months ago

I’m serious about Fletcher. He hasn’t set the table at all. I’m wondering he’s just a flash in the pan. If he’s not going to slug he has to get in base with his slap hitting, but he lucked out with the high contact rate. Could be regression to the mean. His contract is reasonable. But it might be time to drop him in the lineup.

Last edited 5 months ago by DMAGZ13
WallyChuckChili
Super Member
5 months ago
Reply to  DMAGZ13

The Calhoun effect.

Not the same after signing a bigger contract.

But I still believe in Fletch

Simba
Member
5 months ago

Hopefully not the Chone Figgins effect.

UtahAlumnus
Trusted Member
5 months ago

In a year with such parity to start the season, Angels still finding a way to bring up the rear of the division.

UtahAlumnus
Trusted Member
5 months ago
Reply to  UtahAlumnus

Even Texas ahead of us in the standings.

Last edited 5 months ago by UtahAlumnus
nishiogawakun
Trusted Member
5 months ago
Reply to  UtahAlumnus

It’s sad. Same thing over and over, even teams that are supposed to straight up stink seem to be ahead of us.

Angels2020Champs
Super Member
5 months ago

There is a game tomorrow btw, it’s against the Rays with Heaney pitching

Angels2020Champs
Super Member
5 months ago

You ok JHW?

Angels2020Champs
Super Member
5 months ago

Well WE are Angels fans so there’s always that’s going on with us

JackFrost
Super Member
5 months ago

Thanks but no thanks.