Angels trade outfielder Brian Goodwin to Reds for Packy Naughton and a PTBNL

Just before the trade deadline Monday afternoon, Ken Rosenthal of The Athletic announced that the Angels had made another move:

The return is LHP Packy Naughton (10/10 name) and a PTBNL or cash.

Goodwin, 29, was a nifty little find for Billy Eppler just before the 2019 season. He has been remarkably consistent over the 1.5 seasons he spent with the Angels and can play all three outfield positions. In 166 games, Goodwin had 567 PA and hit .258/.327/.469. With the Cincinnati Reds just 1.5 games out of a playoff spot in the NL Central, this is a move for them to win. With starting outfielder Shogo Akiyama underperforming, perhaps Goodwin will slot directly into the lineup for them.

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2002heaven
Trusted Member
3 years ago

Paahtrick Nawtin frum Bawstin Mass
Yuh dirty bastids!! 😀 

gitchogritchoffmypettis
Legend

I wonder if I will feel happier if we extend Dylan Bundy? He sure has looked good. I wonder how much of Super Dil is due to Callaway and if that may make him want to stay here and not suck…..

Brent Maguire
Editor
Trusted Member
3 years ago

FWIW, MLB Pipeline has Naughton as the Angels 13th best prospect now. I think that says more about the Angels system than Naughton himself, who looks like a fringe MLBer. I think the trade is basically fine but it really depends on who the PTBNL is. Like Turks mentioned in this thread, Goodwin has a few years of club control and the dude was very solid in basically a full season of work. Is Goodwin a great player? No. Is he a good player under team control who is a serviceable, everyday option in the outfield? Yup.

Naughton seems like a fine depth piece but it’s hard to envision a dude with a 87-91 mph fastball being much of an impact player. The margin for error is so slim, even though the reports on his command and change-up are pretty good. I pretty much expected the returns the Angels got for TLS and Castro, given their impending free agency, but I was a tad surprised that Goodwin didn’t fetch a bit more. I’ll reserve full judgment until we hear more about the PTBNL though…

WallyChuckChili
Legend
3 years ago
Reply to  Brent Maguire

Usually when “or Cash Considerations” is added, the PTBNL isn’t anything to write home about. If not CC, the PTBNL will not change your mind unless the change of scenery thing applies after the initial disappointment has passed bc you forgot he was even in our system

AnAngelsFan
Super Member
3 years ago

In this case, it could be insurance. The teams may have agreed to a specific PTBNL not on the 60-man roster, but the “cash considerations” clause was added in case something happens to that player before the trade can be completed.

At least, let’s hope so.

2002heaven
Trusted Member
3 years ago
Reply to  Brent Maguire

Typical Eppler maneuver
Nuthin that will move the needle much. Other than how much anybody cares to credit BE for being in the same room as Arte, Anthony Rendon, and Joe Maddon during the Rendon signing, and Shohei Ohtani for two months in 2018 he didn’t bring in anybody of huge impact yet after 5 yrs ( either through trade or the farm ). These trades will do almost nothing to propel us outta the AL West Basement in 2021 ( Texas & Seattle will be a lot better than us next season ). Jedi got better by fire sale after the 2018 season……sorry Jedi haters, but the Mariners will be better than us soon just as we watched the Braves and A’s. You couldn’t getta postage stamp for Hansel Robles nowadays in 2020 as opposed to 2019.

BushLeague
Member
3 years ago

Sad to see Goody go, but this does create a clearer path for Adell and Marsh, which I am very excited about. Not ready to comment on what they got in return. We have no idea who that PTBNL is.

2002heaven
Trusted Member
3 years ago

Just I sed back at the old haunt
When you’re dumb enuff to pass over Dakota Hudson, Pete Alonso, Dustin May, and Shane Bieber then you suck. NYT article points out that he’s a novice at raw talent scouting and player development. That Dodger series last month was ugly and humiliating, and truly exposed the divide between our pathetic scouting and player development and that gigantic Big Blue and White Behemoth.  😫  😥 
PS Arte would turn down buying a brand new Lamborghini for $200 ( because he didn’t get for free!!! LMFAO!!! )

DMAGZ13
Trusted Member
3 years ago

Is this another Dillon Peters? Lefty slow fastball junk ballers with deception?

Eric_in_Portland
Legend
3 years ago

should Eppler come back in 2021 this sets him up nicely to trade Bundy for very little at the next deadline.

LAAFan
Trusted Member
3 years ago

I don’t mind it, honestly. Given that the Angels are in organizational hell, Goodwin was gonna be losing at bats anyways, whether to Upton and his massive contract or to Adell and his development.

gitchogritchoffmypettis
Legend

I just got off CTPG in alternate universe #3. Most of you there were complaining bitterly that Eppler needs to go because he did not trade someone like Goodwin for pitching. Many of you were angry about the PTBNL because you don’t know how those rules work this year.

Weirdly, alternate gitcho had a huge rage boner for firing Eppler but it was because he wants a return to the glory of Tony Reagins…..

Turk's Teeth
Editor
Super Member
3 years ago

I wasn’t in alternate CTPG unless my false memory chip is acting up again.

Was cool with what Eppler got for the Tommy/Castro trades. Didn’t want to trade Goodwin, though, and don’t like what we got back in return (as currently known).

Also not agitating to fire Eppler, because I think he’s already sufficiently made the case against re-upping his contract all by himself.

Rahul Setty
Admin
Trusted Member
3 years ago
Reply to  Turk's Teeth

It’s almost like people can have nuanced opinions. Imagine that!

PatrickNaN
Trusted Member
3 years ago
Reply to  Turk's Teeth

I don’t even worry about Eppler anymore. 5 losing years, ~25th ranked farm system with no pitching, one of the worst teams in baseball with one of the highest payrolls. I don’t care how many excuses you have or what business you are in, no one keeps their job after results like that. Eppler is gone and it’s not even worth a lot of emotional energy worrying about it.

BruinsAngelsKings
Trusted Member
3 years ago
Reply to  PatrickNaN

Clearly you did not watch dan guerrero keep his job at UCLA while all of his revenue sports hires were c pretend failures. No AD hires/fires 4 FB coaches and keeps his job. Unless you are UCLA.

AdelitasBarTJ
Member
3 years ago

I couldn’t second this fast enough. Between Eppler, Guerrero at UCLA, and Helton at USC, Southern California sports sure has some real beauties.

gitchogritchoffmypettis
Legend
Reply to  PatrickNaN

Yep, this year was the big gamble for him. It doesn’t look like he’s gonna come out ahead.If our big line up of hitters had mashed, Bundy did what he’s doing and say Canning, Heaney and Ohtani pitched well, plus a bullpen that wasn’t candy assed, and the team made a good short season showing he might have been ok. But he’s probably done.

gitchogritchoffmypettis
Legend
Reply to  H.T. Ennis

Yep. If we’d done any of the above Eppler would have something to point to and declare “progress!” but he doesn’t have that. Like I said above, I don’t think he has done a horrible job as far as decisions and moves go. Generally speaking all we can do is list the names of players he didn’t draft, which is a dickhead move you can do with any GM, or complain about a long list (or even short list post hindsight) of FAs you wish had signed here. Hell, even the draft position we always got, till this year, seemed to always fall well out of obviously good pitching picks. But even if all that’s the case, if you’re deciding to keep a GM or not this guy doesn’t have anything to point to but a plan, so unless Arte/Joe really likes that plan, Epps is done.

gitchogritchoffmypettis
Legend
Reply to  Turk's Teeth

Eppler’s most likely out because of “life”. I honestly don’t think he’s half bad, and I don’t think anyone else was going to do much better with the bags of flaming shit and Tommy John surgeries he’s been given. He’s made some nice moves, most of what people really rail against are larger issues that Branch Ricky couldn’t fix like payroll (early in Epp’s tenure) and a lack of players to/willing to sign in the last couple years.

This is why so many people around here can never communicate what they would have done differently when they start spluttering about what ever move they are complaining about and then declare “I don’t have any answers, but it’s his job to magically make what I want to happen happen.”. Most GMs have some boner moves, most of Billy’s are OK, hell, even Stassi worked out OK. But nothing can overcome just plain never being able to sign or acquire pitching and Billy can’t, even if the reasons are largely not because of his moves.

You have to ask yourself, is there a good reason to sign him to a longer contract? Unless a whole bunch of what Billy has done has all been part of a master plan with Arte that Arte is accepting some responsibility for in the privacy of his own thoughts, plus Arte wants to see if the “draft a million toolsy CF/SS kids and trade em for pitching” plan works out or something, then there just isn’t any real reason to bring Eppler back.

But “He didn’t get the haul we expected for TLS” or “Brian Goodwin is at least as good as Kole Calhoun! How did we not get tons of pitching prospects for that!” isn’t going to be why Eppler gets tossed. Those are just tantrums frustrated people are throwing because something happened, so something can be complained about. Billy will get let go because some exciting guy that Maddon likes is available and Eppler just plain has nothing to point to.

Though it will be hilarious around here if he gets extended.

It will not be hilarious if he gets a job someplace else and kicks ass, which is far more likely than it was with Soth.

Rahul Setty
Admin
Trusted Member
3 years ago

What’s the magnitude of what Eppler has done right and done wrong, though? Because five years of having respectable draft picks and player development hasn’t amounted to much value creation on the pitching side, and nearly every free agent has busted badly (including Cozart and Justin Upton, who I’m including in that group). Eppler’s pro scouting team and trade record is the feather in his cap, and I cut him some slack at the beginning of his tenure for Hamilton/Pujols and starters breaking, but there’s no pitching pipeline to speak of which has been the annual problem.

DowningDude
Legend
3 years ago

Eppler best GM ever.

DowningDude
Legend
3 years ago
Reply to  DowningDude

This trade was all for Naught-on

El_Duderino
Trusted Member
3 years ago
Reply to  DowningDude

What we got for Goodwin was Pack-ticall-y Naughton.

DowningDude
Legend
3 years ago
Reply to  El_Duderino

Weird Al already parodied this guy: https://youtu.be/zq7Eki5EZ8o

2002heaven
Trusted Member
3 years ago
Reply to  DowningDude

Evuh!!! 😁 

PatrickNaN
Trusted Member
3 years ago
Reply to  2002heaven

Evuh!!!

NorCalHalofan
Trusted Member
3 years ago

This is an organization trying to save face. Teams always talk about putting their best nine out there every day. This trade is the truth to that lie. Goodwin is the second best outfielder on the team. But if you release Upton you look like an idiot for wasting $100 million dollars in left field. If you reduce Adell’s playing time you are admitting that maybe your drafting and player development sucks. Goodwin a good player and a team guy who gets stuck paying the price for an organization that has no idea what they are doing.

BushLeague
Member
3 years ago
Reply to  NorCalHalofan

This is exactly what needed to be done in order to accelerate the development of Adell and Marsh. These guys are both still super young and would normally still be in the minors working on improving some things. But, there is no minor leagues this year, so instead they gotta get thrown into the mix and start figuring things out. Moving Goodwin makes that possible. I could care less how they “perform” this year. The more we lose the higher draft pick we get anyway. Let them get their feet wet and get more comfortable being on the big stage.

gitchogritchoffmypettis
Legend
Reply to  BushLeague

Though we may see more of the Walsh/Thaiss types than Marsh. Those guys we need to make cut bait decisions on sooner. Marsh we know is either getting traded for pitching or is in our future plans.

Commander_Nate
Member
Trusted Member
3 years ago

Dibs on first comment panning the Marsh trade.

GrandpaBaseball
Legend
3 years ago

ls Marsh coming up soon?

Greatjake
Member
3 years ago

Or Ohtani is going to get starts in the OF.
Or Fletch is going to get looks in the OF while Barreto/Rengifo battle to the death

Charles Sutton
Editor
Super Member
3 years ago
Reply to  Greatjake

I suspect Fletch needs some time off his feet.

Greatjake
Member
3 years ago
Reply to  Charles Sutton

Good point

GrandpaBaseball
Legend
3 years ago

Goodwin was signed through 2021 so today was a good trade date to receive something halfway decent, but a 15th or 22nd rated player in the Reds system for that matter any teams system is just giving a valuable piece away imho. l am aware that we are lacking in trade pieces but the last 3 trades l think we come up short. l have this feeling Arte is keeping Epp’s one more season, otherwise he should have gone through the front doors by now.

Eric_in_Portland
Legend
3 years ago

that’s self-renewing. It suggests that if Eppler is coming back next year he won’t be fired because he would have already been fired. And if he isn’t fired in 2021 he’ll come back in 2022 because he wasn’t fired previously. Ow, my head.

BruinsAngelsKings
Trusted Member
3 years ago

So, without having dealt Simba, conventional thinking is they attempt to resign him, right? If yes, what do you think the terms are?

John Henry Weitzel
Editor
Super Member
3 years ago

QO for him I bet. He takes most likely.

DowningDude
Legend
3 years ago

re-sign

El_Duderino
Trusted Member
3 years ago
Reply to  DowningDude

Thank you. This has been driving me nuts lately.

DowningDude
Legend
3 years ago
Reply to  El_Duderino

There was an entire fanpost by yeswecan (maybe) at the old site on resign vs re-sign. Classic fanpost.

El_Duderino
Trusted Member
3 years ago
Reply to  DowningDude

“The old site”. lolz

DowningDude
Legend
3 years ago
Reply to  El_Duderino

You prefer: “tumbleweeds-R-us?”

El_Duderino
Trusted Member
3 years ago
Reply to  DowningDude

Geez why are they even trying.

JackFrost
Super Member
3 years ago

Dodgers traded Stripling to Toronto for two PTBNL.

The guy who we were supposed to get.

Senator_John_Blutarsky
Legend
Reply to  JackFrost

We dodged a bullet there…..

gitchogritchoffmypettis
Legend
Reply to  JackFrost

I forgot to watch what he got up to. Last I heard around here we were all railing against the FO after Stripling’s first start of the year went well…. then I heard nothing. Now I know why, that’s not a good FIP.

Eric_in_Portland
Legend
3 years ago

interesting correlation: our GM is as good as our club, which makes perfect sense since he put most of it together.

(after looking it up) Trout, Pujols, Heaney, Bedrosian are the only players left from 2015 which is pre-Eppler

Last edited 3 years ago by Eric_in_Portland
Cowboy26
Legend
3 years ago

Well you also should include David Fletcher, Jahmai Jones, Jarod Walsh, Jose Suarez, Jaime Barria & Taylor Ward on that list since they were all Eppler inheritances.

Eric_in_Portland
Legend
3 years ago
Reply to  Cowboy26

I was trying to figure out how to phrase that exact thing.

...Rev Halofan
Editor
Trusted Member
3 years ago
Reply to  Cowboy26

DiPoto drafted Keynan Middleton too

cornzzz
Member
3 years ago

I’ll miss Goody. One of the few bright spots for the last 2 years. Wish him the best in Cincy.

Packy Naughton is a great name.

According to Jeff, the PTBNL is also a pitcher.

JackFrost
Super Member
3 years ago
Reply to  cornzzz

Unfortunately a great name does not equal great FIP.

2002heaven
Trusted Member
3 years ago
Reply to  JackFrost

I’m still waiting for Odrisamer Despaigne………damm shame that guy had such a cool name, but was terrible.
Jaime Maggio of KCBS/KCAL sports news only non Latinx to correctly pronounce his name. 😀 
Oh driss sahmer…….de spahn yay

Last edited 3 years ago by 2002heaven
Senator_John_Blutarsky
Legend
Reply to  cornzzz

The deal is PTBNL or cash…..

Commander_Nate
Member
Trusted Member
3 years ago

Let’s hope Packy will attacky the strikezone…

..
.

DowningDude
Legend
3 years ago
Reply to  Commander_Nate

Man that comment was wacky

max
Trusted Member
max
3 years ago
Reply to  DowningDude

Maybe a bit tacky?

Turk's Teeth
Editor
Super Member
3 years ago

Unless the PTBNL is a real winner, this feels like a crap exchange to me. The Reds have a weak farm, and Naughton is the type of player that gets an NRI to spring training every year. Basically Hoby Milner.

Goodwin has been delivering a performance that is value-equivalent to Calhoun since the Angels acquired him, on a rate basis, and he cost nothing at two mil per year. He was controllable for two more seasons.

BartonSpringsMatt
Member
3 years ago
Reply to  Turk's Teeth

We also chose not to get anything at all in return for Calhoun, if that makes you feel better…

Commander_Nate
Member
Trusted Member
3 years ago
Reply to  Turk's Teeth

Wait, really? I like Goodwin and didn’t think we’d move him, but seems like a solid move to me. Or did they reschedule April Fool’s this year too?

Turk's Teeth
Editor
Super Member
3 years ago
Reply to  Commander_Nate

Do you think Hoby Milner is a 2+ WAR player? That’s basically what Goody delivered the team across his first 550 PAs. Solid everyday player. Signed through 2022.

For the #22 in a bottom ten farm system.

Commander_Nate
Member
Trusted Member
3 years ago
Reply to  Turk's Teeth

Hmm, I initially saw higher rankings than that (14 and 12) plus the 2019 Pitcher of the Year for the org. Plus young LHSP with many years of control. Will defer to those with more knowledge but initially I was thinking Joe Saunders as a reasonable expectation.

Turk's Teeth
Editor
Super Member
3 years ago
Reply to  Commander_Nate

I’m going by Longenhagen’s rankings at FG, because I like his analysis and he updates his rankings far more frequently than MLB or Baseball America. Otherwise I like BA’s rankings, if they’re fresh.

AnAngelsFan
Super Member
3 years ago
Reply to  Turk's Teeth

Longenhagen has the Reds at #22 and Naughty as #20 in the Red’s system. He also compares Naughty to Ryan Yarbough, who is better than both Milner and Saunders.

Oops, I see that Logenhagen does have him as #22 in the Reds organization, but he did still compare him to Yarbough this May.

Last edited 3 years ago by AnAngelsFan
Commander_Nate
Member
Trusted Member
3 years ago
Reply to  AnAngelsFan

K/BB ratio of 3.72 is pretty sweet too. Should have him talk to some of our current staff.

Jeff Joiner
Editor
Legend
3 years ago
Reply to  Commander_Nate

Really low BB/9 rate. I like pitch to contact guys. Perhaps with Simba and Fletcher behind him he could work.

But still, I have to think the PTBNL is someone of consequence.

Turk's Teeth
Editor
Super Member
3 years ago
Reply to  AnAngelsFan

I think that’s all consistent with my initial assessment – #22 guy in a bottom-third farm. On the Angels, he’s our #19 best prospect – same tier as Leo Rivas and Sadrac Franco.

Longenhagen didn’t say he’d be as good as Yarbrough – he said he could potentially carve out a role like Yarbrough. Basically a swing / spot starter role. Yarbrough is another lefty, late-bloomer, so there’s a cosmetic comp there.

Still think Milner is a good comp. Funky delivery, command lefty, underwhelming fastball. Milner was also a starter through age 24. They both hit AA at 24, then Milner switched into a long-relief/swing profile as Naughton likely will (and as most analysts project).

This still seems like a significant underpay for 2+ years of Goodwin. Which is why the PTBNL better have some value.

max
Trusted Member
max
3 years ago
Reply to  AnAngelsFan

Number 22 in the Reds’ system is like what, number 4 in the Halos’?

PatrickNaN
Trusted Member
3 years ago
Reply to  max

Ha! In terms of pitchers, almost certainly.

Greatjake
Member
3 years ago
Reply to  Turk's Teeth

Keith Law had him at #11

Turk's Teeth
Editor
Super Member
3 years ago
Reply to  Greatjake

Law says the upside case is fifth starter, and he’s the most optimistic.

Turk's Teeth
Editor
Super Member
3 years ago
Reply to  Commander_Nate

Saunders was a first round pick (#12) with a mid-rotation projection on draft day.

DowningDude
Legend
3 years ago
Reply to  Turk's Teeth

Covered in Odd Man Out (great book BTW). Just watch out for the Bani-Dogs.

Jeff Joiner
Editor
Legend
3 years ago
Reply to  Turk's Teeth

Fangraphs pegs him with a FV of 40. He did have a better 2019 and I’m happy with pitch to contact guys. Decent BB/9 numbers but bad K/9 numbers.

Prospects and farms are your domain, but yeah Goodwin for a 40 seems bad. PTBNL better be someone notable.

Turk's Teeth
Editor
Super Member
3 years ago
Reply to  Jeff Joiner

Again, I just think we invite 5-10 guys like this to spring training every year. He’s a funky command lefty with a middle inning profile like Hoby. Team already has that now for league minimum.

Took awhile to find a corner OF who could play as well as Goody did. Seems odd to give that away for a taxi squad player who is both low ceiling and low probability.

Turk's Teeth
Editor
Super Member
3 years ago
Reply to  Jeff Joiner

I mean, if the Angels got Roa or Richardson, then it’s a more interesting package. But I suspect it’s a guy in a similar tier to Naughton. We’ll see.

John Henry Weitzel
Editor
Super Member
3 years ago
Reply to  Turk's Teeth

Well those are the 12th and 13th best Reds prospects according to mlb.com. (Packy is 14th there)

Turk's Teeth
Editor
Super Member
3 years ago

Baseball America: #20 (Upside case: 5th starter or lefty reliever)
Fangraphs: #22 (Upside case: middle reliever / spot starter)
Keith Law: #11 (Upside case: 5th starter)
MLB Pipeline: #14 (Upside case: middle reliever or 5th starter)

Ranked in roughly the order I trust.

MLB Pipeline has already slotted him into #13 in our system and Fangraphs at #19. These are lower marks than Barria and Suarez achieved, so you can kind of slot him into the pecking order below Sandoval, Barria and Suarez.

Last edited 3 years ago by Turk's Teeth
Senator_John_Blutarsky
Legend
Reply to  Jeff Joiner

It’s PTBNL or cash…..it’s not going to be notable

Jeff Joiner
Editor
Legend
3 years ago

This year it might. Only guys on the 60 man roster can be traded so a prospect normally in AA can be PTBNL.

gitchogritchoffmypettis
Legend
Reply to  Jeff Joiner

Yeh, the Reds actually have some guys I wouldn’t mind getting as a PTBNL. There are actually a couple pitchers outside their top 10 I like. I also wouldn’t gnash my teeth to nubs if they got Michel Triana, who is a Cuban Maitan type (gasp!) but I think could become a really good hitter and 1B with some luck.

JackFrost
Super Member
3 years ago
Reply to  Turk's Teeth

Ugggh. This was my fear; that Eppler would revert to his stupid and shitty ways after making what looked like a good move for Castro.

This is exactly why I suggested we hold on to BG. If Milner is the comp for Noughton we ought not to have done this deal.

PatrickNaN
Trusted Member
3 years ago
Reply to  Turk's Teeth

My comment that this was OK was based on the assumption that we were going to trade Goodwin. I think this is a heavy buyers market so I think it’s hard to get much of anything.

Am I correct that you are basically saying we shouldn’t have traded at all? Because I can definitely get behind that. Trading for tradings sake in a buyers market isn’t necessarily smart.

gitchogritchoffmypettis
Legend
Reply to  Turk's Teeth

My Reds fan friends have said the noise is that it’s Richardson or Roa. They have also heard Jacob Heatherly, who is apparently a hurt yet talented lefty.

He’s a low top 30 prospect, but if Joe Boyle is the PTBNL I’d be happy. If he gets some control and a change up or cutter or what ever he could be an ace like G Rich without God hating him.

PatrickNaN
Trusted Member
3 years ago

They are talking about him on the broadcast, sounds like better than I expected really. 14th in their system and a pitcher.

Maybe my expectations are low, but that’s at least kind of something.

AnAngelsFan
Super Member
3 years ago
Reply to  PatrickNaN

+ a PTBNL. Sometimes those turn out better than expected.

Eric_in_Portland
Legend
3 years ago
Reply to  AnAngelsFan

wasn’t Rengifo a PTBNL?

Rahul Setty
Admin
Trusted Member
3 years ago

Yes.

Turk's Teeth
Editor
Super Member
3 years ago

All PTBNL means in this case is he wasn’t on the Reds’ extended roster. They can’t name anyone the trade off the 60-man until the off-season.

John Henry Weitzel
Editor
Super Member
3 years ago
Reply to  Turk's Teeth

So we won’t know until the offseason?

Turk's Teeth
Editor
Super Member
3 years ago

Unless there’s a leak.