Angels Lost 5-4 This Time

Carson Fulmer is today’s Angels starting pitcher tapped for greatness (or not-so-greatness?). Game on.

Inning #1:

Lawrence Butler flied out to center. Miguel Andujar popped out to short. JJ Bleday flied out to Rengifo at second. Ho Hum. Anthony Rendon popped out to second. Luis Rengifo singled on the ground through to center. He stole second. Taylor Ward then homered. 2-0 Angels.

Let’s hope streaky dude is back on a streak. Brandon Drury grounded out. Logan O’Hoppe singled to left off the glove of the third baseman. Nolan Schanuel hit a blast to right center. 4-0 Angels.

Zach Neto flied out to pretty deep center field.

Inning #2:

Brent Rooker grounded out to third. Shea Langoliers walked. Abraham Toro struck out on a foul tip. Seth Brown hit a two run homer. 4-2 Angels. Zack Gelof hit a ball that could have been a gap double but Jo Adell ran it down for the third out. Mickey Moniak popped out to second. Jo Adell flied out to right.
Anthony Rendon flied out to short.

Inning #3:

Max Schuemann grounded out to Zack Neto. Lawrence Butler lined out to right. Miguel Andujar walked. JJ Bleday grounded out to Schanuel. Luis Rengifo grounded out to first. Taylor Ward flied out to right center. Brandon Drury flied out to right.

Inning #4:

Brent Rooker flied out to right. Shea Langoliers struck out on a foul tip. Abraham Toro flied out to Ward in left. Logan O’Hoppe struck out. Nolan Schanuel also struck out. Zack Neto grounded out to short.

Inning #5:

Seth Brown singled on a single to left. Zack Gelof popped out to Rengifo. Max Schuemann grounded to third resulting in a double play. Mickey Moniak grounded out to second base. Jo Adell walked. With Jo Adell moving, Lawrence Butler couldn’t catch the Rendon double and Adell was gunned down at the plate. Sorry Jack Frost, but this is an important play, The announcer sounds like he is huffing Helium, though.

Rendon made it to third on the throw, whereupon Luis Rengifo flied out to center to end the inning.

Inning #6:

Lawrence Butler struck out swinging. Miguel Andujar flied out to short. JJ Bleday walked. Max Crouse came in to pitch for the Angels. Brent Rooker homered to tie the game. 4-4 tie. Shea Langoliers and Abraham Toro both walked. Toro did not see a single strike. Seth Brown singled to score Shea Langoliers. 5-4 Oakland. Taylor Ward flied out to right. Brandon Drury flied out to center. Logan O’Hoppe singled on a liner to center. He advanced to second on a wild pitch. Nolan Schanuel walked. Zack Neto flied out to left field.

Inning #7:

Jose Quijada came in to pitch for the Angels. Max Schuemann lined out to Schanuel. Lawrence Butler flied out to left. Miguel Andujar singled on a grounder through the middle. JJ Bleday grounded out to short. Mickey Moniak popped out to short while Jo Adell popped out to second. So did Anthony Rendon.

Inning #8:

Brent Rooker lined out sharply to right. Shea Langoliers walked. He was caught stealing by Logan O’Hoppe. Then Abraham Toro struck out. Luis Rengifo walked on four pitches. Taylor Ward flied out to right bringing up Brandon Drury. Drury flied out to center. Logan O’Hoppe singled to second. T.J. McFarland came in to pitch for the Athletics. Nolan Schanuel struck out swinging.

Inning #9:

Seth Brown came in to face Roansy Contreras. He grounded out to first. Zack Gelof struck out swinging. Max Schuemann singled on a grounder though to left. Lawrence Butler lined out to center. Lucas Erceg came in to replace T.J McFarland on the mound. Zack Neto lined out to second base. Mickey Moniak singled on a liner to left. Jo Adell struck out swinging. Anthony Rendon grounded out to end the game. The Angels lost 5-4 this time.

Photo credit: Rex Fregosi

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GrandpaBaseball
Legend
4 months ago

Encouraging to know that Arte see’s the future in building with new faces that are young. Now if we can come up with more scouts that actually know who wants to stay in school. But today is a start. Good for the Angels, just don’t stop here.

John Henry Weitzel
Editor
Super Member
4 months ago

Trade thread up.

clover_black
Super Member
4 months ago

Estevez banner being removed as we speak

RexFregosi
Super Member
4 months ago
Reply to  clover_black

Who?

smithy610
Super Member
4 months ago

JJ Cooper
@jjcoop36
·
12m
Phillies No. 5 and No. 7 prospects (as updated yesterday).

Ton about the two Phillies pitchers here with more to come.

https://baseballamerica.com/stories/rising-phillies-pitchers-to-know-plus-four-insights-friday-intel/

Roy Hobbs
Super Member
4 months ago
Reply to  smithy610

It was a solid deal. We got 2 legit prospects. Good depth and one may workout for us as a starter next year. Let’s see what we get for Anderson.

Mia
Legend
Mia
4 months ago

Two pitchers for the price of one?????

Arte won that one!

No but seriously they both look like high upside guys. Great move.

Senator_John_Blutarsky
Legend
4 months ago
Reply to  Mia

…until Arte figures out he needs to pay them both 😀

Pineapple12
Super Member
4 months ago

I WAS TOLD PERRY SUCKS

“BREAKING: The Philadelphia Phillies and Los Angeles Angels are finalizing a significant deal that will send top pitching prospects George Klassen and Samuel Aldegheri to the Angels, sources tell ESPN.

Closer Carlos Estevez is headed back to the Phillies in the deal for George Klassen and Samuel Aldegheri, sources tell ESPN. @Ken_Rosenthal had Estevez first. The best staff in the National League gets even better.”

https://x.com/JeffPassan/status/1817328221219930246?t=arUwRiLi8AnzNeJTlIhJjQ&s=19

Last edited 4 months ago by Pineapple12
Eric_in_Portland
Legend
4 months ago
Reply to  Pineapple12

Klassen’s stats look very good and Aldegheri wrote a classic poem.

RexFregosi
Super Member
4 months ago

Roses are red, violets are blue,
Klassen’s an Angel, and I am too.

that one?

Senator_John_Blutarsky
Legend
4 months ago
Reply to  Pineapple12

They are the #23 and #28 rated Phillies pitching prospects

So not the “top” pitching prospects

Last edited 4 months ago by Senator_John_Blutarsky
Pineapple12
Super Member
4 months ago

Well Baseball America begs to differ …

“Phillies No. 5 and No. 7 prospects (as updated yesterday).

Ton about the two Phillies pitchers here with more to come. baseballamerica.com/stories/rising

https://x.com/jjcoop36/status/1817330306439155983?t=uSbrIUnhKn2vRD8cWrdr_A&s=19

Pineapple12
Super Member
4 months ago
Reply to  Pineapple12

A quick reminder for the trade deadline: Public prospect rankings quite often are not updated during the season. If you think George Klassen and Samuel Aldegheri are not good because they were ranked in the 20s before the season, you do not know ball. They are both very good.

https://x.com/JeffPassan/status/1817331137712169006?t=1SM-5UmESpOqDDauDrYwfw&s=19

Senator_John_Blutarsky
Legend
4 months ago
Reply to  Pineapple12

7. George Klassen, RHP
Summary: Klassen could not throw strikes in college, and while his command has not always been ideal as a pro, he has mostly been able to as a pro. His fastball sits mostly 96-98 and will get to 99, with not ideal shape. What has been carrying him his his hard slider/cutter at 88-92 and his mid 80s curveball. Klassen has not pitched deep into games and has already eclipsed his innings total from last year. While the Phillies have been cautious with him, his lack of full starters workload is making questions about him being a reliever louder. He is still a pitch or two short of a starter’s arsenal, but for now they have already done some of the hard work.
Trade Deadline Thoughts: Unless he is the deal breaker on a key deal I expect the Phillies to direct teams to other arms in the organization in actual trade talks.
Preseason Rank: 22

13. Samuel Aldegheri, LHP
Summary: Aldegheri had his first healthy season last year and has gotten stronger and better with hard work over the offseason. He is sitting more 90-94 up to 95 with a 4-seam fastball (that he works up in the zone) and sinker. His slider is an above average pitch he can use for chases away to lefties or break it in on righty’s feet. His curveball is a below average pitch that is just a change of pace strike stealer. His changeup has improved, but is still not a real weapon yet, and his platoon splits show that righties hit him harder than lefties (he has yet to allow an XBH to a lefty). He will need his command and stuff to take another step forward to make him more than a back end starter, but he has been improving year over year.
Trade Deadline Thoughts: It isn’t that much different than Jean Cabrera. Aldegheri has value (and some teams will prefer his left handedness) and the Phillies cannot carry all of these pitchers through the next offseason. He could headline one of the mid tier moves that it seems like the Phillies are heading towards.
Preseason Rank: 13

Senator_John_Blutarsky
Legend
4 months ago
Reply to  Pineapple12

I agree that different publications have different ratings.

Eric_in_Portland
Legend
4 months ago
Reply to  Pineapple12

Aldegheri 23rd rated prospect for Philly, Klassen #28. Both are 40s…so Senator, you beat me to it!

tanana40
Super Member
4 months ago
Reply to  Pineapple12
Twebur
Legend
4 months ago

Why do I have a feeling this guy will be the next coming of Mayfield / Plumber 3.0
May as well buy a house in SL my friend, worst places to live. 

INF Keston Hiura has been outrighted to Triple-A Salt Lake
https://x.com/LAAngelsPR/status/1817269724927140296

Senator_John_Blutarsky
Legend
4 months ago
Reply to  Twebur

Organizational filler AAAA player

Twebur
Legend
4 months ago

Nolan Schanuel OPS March thru July.

https://x.com/JeffFletcherOCR/status/1817019447535894768

Cowboy26
Legend
4 months ago
Reply to  Twebur

Even more impressive is Nolan’s slash line since June 11th (38 games 159 PA’s -about 1/4 of a season) has been .308/.420/.431 where he still has more Walks (24) than Strikeouts (23) The Angels’ record over that period of time is 20-18.

Twebur
Legend
4 months ago
Reply to  Cowboy26

Maybe one day he’s going to command and receive a Trout like mega contract………

Be rich enough to open up his very own “San Manuel Schanuel Indian Casino” 

Eric_in_Portland
Legend
4 months ago
Reply to  Twebur

tonight might be the night Schanny passes Ward in OPS…or is it the other way around?

RexFregosi
Super Member
4 months ago

Cashman plays Jazz while Perry plays on his bongo drums 🪘

Heefy can keep his beard

Twebur
Legend
4 months ago
Reply to  RexFregosi

Perry plays on his bongo drums Ron Burgundy-esq “Yazz” flute.

FungoAle
Legend
4 months ago
Reply to  RexFregosi

Hell of a pick up by the Yanks.

Perry is in over his head and I still say that year 4.

Cowboy26
Legend
4 months ago
Reply to  FungoAle

Meh.

Twebur
Legend
4 months ago

Anything new we don’t already know? Or same old blame Arte and Perry?
Can’t read Too cheap to pay.

Only 4 of the last 516 picks from the top 3 rounds of the MLB Draft haven’t signed. That’s 0.78%.

This year, Angels’ 3rd-round pick Ryan Prager won’t sign.

I talked with him, and it raised some questions about the Angels’ pre-draft due-diligence.

https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/5661952/2024/07/27/angels-ryan-prager-mlb-draft-unsigned/

Roy Hobbs
Super Member
4 months ago
Reply to  Twebur

I read it and if it’s all true they didn’t do their homework. It’s pretty simple, if we draft you, will you sign with us and if so how much will it take. Either they did not know the answers to those questions or he reneged on what he told them. He either didn’t want to play for the angels or wanted more money. They should have known both of those answers ahead of time in less he changed his mind.

Twebur
Legend
4 months ago
Reply to  Roy Hobbs

Looking around at other posts, some claim he didn’t want to play for this organization, period.

He might have John Elway’ed and Eli Manning’ed us…….but then the question is why? Who told him about our trAdition? Is he a CTPG guy, secretly lurking here, knows the ways of evil Arte? Will this be more common in the coming years? That 0.78% going up, all because of our draft choices? Oh the palace intrigue.

————————-
I won’t even go to the “Sam No Hat” connection with the interview with this kid……Sam’s sabotaging us 😀

Fansince1971
Legend
4 months ago
Reply to  Twebur

Here you go:

Sam Blum
By Sam Blum
Jul 27, 2024
ANAHEIM, Calif. — In the modern era of the MLB Draft, it is incredibly rare for a player selected in the first three rounds not to sign with his drafting team.

In the past five drafts, it only happened four times. Four of 516 draft picks — a minuscule 0.78 percent.

Of those four players, two didn’t sign because of medical concerns raised during their physicals. In the bonus pool era, particularly with college players, there’s almost no reason for a top-10-round draft pick not to sign.

So when Angels third-round selection Ryan Prager announced he was going back to Texas A&M, it was pretty shocking. And it raised questions about the Angels’ process in selecting him.

“A week before the draft, (myself and the Texas A&M coaches) had been talking,” Prager told The Athletic on Friday. “And that’s when I became, ‘OK, I’m super comfortable and I’m perfectly content if I end up going back to school.’

“I think we communicated that very well. I can’t speak for the clubs and if they knew extremely well. But I knew we had talked about it and we were very content with having both options.”

Prager said he went into the draft with an open mind and was willing to sign under ideal circumstances. But he also said he made it clear to teams ahead of the draft that he was willing to return to Texas A&M. He felt he had unfinished business after losing in the College World Series finals, he wanted to earn his degree and he felt comfortable with the Aggies’ development plan for him.

And while he praised the Angels’ professionalism during the negotiations, he ultimately chose to go back to school.

It is unclear how much communication the Angels initiated with Prager ahead of the draft, communication that would have given the team an understanding of how much of a bonus he wanted, or if he even wanted to join their organization.

Angels general manager Perry Minasian and scouting director Tim McIlvaine declined to comment .

Prager said he couldn’t recall any specific conversations with Angels scouts. But he believed them to be in attendance to watch him pitch, and that his advisors had spoken with the team.

“A lot of it has to do with the Angels,” college baseball insider Kendall Rodgers said on his D1Baseball podcast. “It sounds like the Angels were not the preferred team that his camp would have liked to go to.

“(Prager) had a very clear idea of what he was going to sign for, and the Angels were unwilling to do that. Most of it is that the Angels botched this whole thing.”

It is commonplace during the pre-draft process for teams to check with players — particularly those with leverage — about whether they’d sign and the price that it would take, specifically to avoid this situation.

The Angels are known for employing a relatively small amateur scouting department, and the question now is how much due diligence they did ahead of selecting Prager.

Prager declined to discuss how much of a bonus the Angels offered, or if the organization’s history of poor player development played a role in his decision.

For the Angels, who already have a weak farm system, missing out on a top pick is significant. Prager had a 2.25 ERA in 19 starts for the Aggies this season. They will get a compensation pick at the end of the third round next season. But it will be later than pick 81, where Prager was selected this season, and they’ll lose bonus pool money this year, as well. Slot value for the 81st pick is $948,600. Not signing Prager lowers the Angels’ bonus pool cap from $12,990,400 to $12,041,800.

It is a costly mistake by the Angels. And it’s unclear if they were aware of Prager’s mindset ahead of time.

“I just think the right situation all around,” Prager said when asked what it would have taken for him to sign. “Knowing what was here at A&M, it was going to take the right situation to leave it. That’s kind of how we went about it in the first place.

“We weren’t going to settle or take a situation that wasn’t the very best.”

Prager had Tommy John surgery in October 2022 and missed the 2023 season, giving him a medical redshirt. He enters the 2025 season with two years of collegiate eligibility remaining, although he will turn 22 in October.

The Angels have become known for getting creative in how they utilize their bonus pool. They’ll often look to save money with below-slot value picks early in the draft, then utilize the extra cash on over-slot high school pitchers later in the draft. They continued that tradition this season, signing high school right-hander Trey Gregory-Alford, their 11th-round pick, to a round-record deal of $1,957,500, according to MLB.com‘s Jim Callis. All but $150,000 of Gregory-Alford’s signing bonus will count against the Angels’ bonus pool.

The Angels were able to sign the rest of their top-10 round picks, going over slot to sign second-round compensation pick Ryan Johnson and fifth-round pick Dylan Jordan, while signing the rest to under-slot deals.

It’s worth noting that Texas A&M is considered one of the most lucrative schools for NIL deals, and it’s possible that could have played a role in this negotiation. Rodgers reported Prager’s NIL deal with Texas A&M is “well north of $500,000.”

Prager said his goal is still to be a long-time big-league pitcher. But he held all the cards in this situation and had the choice to leave school under only the most perfect of circumstances. This was not that.

The Angels were excited about the pick. After he was selected, McIlvaine broke down the selection.

“We’ll see what kind of strength and conditioning he’s been doing and get him on our path,” McIlvaine said. “Delivery-wise, I don’t know if I want to touch anything because there’s a deceptive piece to it too, that he gets a ton of outs with already.”

Clearly, the Angels thought they’d sign Prager without an issue. And clearly, that was not to be. The question is if they should have known that ahead of time.

Twebur
Legend
4 months ago
Reply to  Fansince1971

It would Fun to draft him next year, just because.

One thing he might have missed out on by not signing with us, is a quick trip to a MLB roster.

Roy Hobbs
Super Member
4 months ago
Reply to  Twebur

That would be great Karma and then we would have the leverage. There are no guarantees, he could be drafted by another bad organization.

Eric_in_Portland
Legend
4 months ago

it’s interesting that we appear to have given up on 2025. Trading Anderson would mean we have Soriano and Canning, period. Can Sandy return ever? Can Detmers bounce back?

Our current rotation is Anderson, Soriano, Canning, bum, bullpen. Trading our #1 pitcher for players who may or may not help in 3 years works only if we’re giving up on 2025 and if we have no intention of re-signing Anderson beyond this contract.

It also sends the signal, along with the giveaway of Iglesias (ERA 1.91, WHIP 0.77), that pitchers are not given the leeway hitters are, that this is a bad destination for a pitcher.

A pitcher with the equivalent of a .168 BA with a 30 OPS+ would have been DFA’d long ago. But I digress….

Building the farm system is a great idea if we trade players like Ward. Dealing Anderson or Heefo makes us, in my opinion, even worse than we are.

I wrote more but realized it was long-winded so….TL;DR, keep Anderson unless it’s a blockbuster. Keep Rengifo, too. Trade or extend Estevez.

Fansince1971
Legend
4 months ago

Sorry Eric – I disagree with most of this. What you are proposing is exactly why this team stays stuck in the middle to lower middle. A rebuild takes several seasons- if the Angels committed to one the horizon would probably be 2027 at the earliest. Look how long it took Houston and Baltimore

The only way to accomplish a rebuild is to trade assets while they are of value. Anderson was terrible last year but he’s good this year so he has trade value. That is the time to trade him.

Estevez was pretty awful last year, but he’s good this year. Again, strike while the iron is hot.

Rengifo is nearing free agency. The team is not built for success. If he could bring a few good prospects in return- it’s gotta be done.

I see zero reason to extend Rengifo under the circumstances. My guess is he wants to explore free agency anyway and then you risk losing him for nothing (see Ohtani).

A rebuild is always tough on fans. Nobody likes to lose with very little hope. However, this team has lost consistently even with two MVPs. So, I think it’s time for a complete rebuild. At least when the team sucks it will be suckage with a goal/direction as opposed to the rudderless suckage of the last decade.

Cowboy26
Legend
4 months ago

Not to worry EiP. Pretty soon it will be Heeeere’s Johnny to the rescue in Anaheim.

https://www.milb.com/gameday/chihuahuas-vs-bees/2024/07/27/751541/preview

Roy Hobbs
Super Member
4 months ago

I understand your frustration. Anderson is in his 30s, has an expiring contract next year, and we are not likely to re-sign him. Also, it is highly unlikely we are close to being competitive in 2025. Heefo is the same but just 27 and many here would like to see him traded as opposed to extended. 120 OPS+ hitters don’t grow on trees though. Even if you don’t trade him now, he could be traded over the winter. He’s probably not part of the long term future so it makes sense to see what you can get both now and in the winter.

Anderson, Estevez, and the relievers on expiring contracts should absolutely be traded for whatever assets you can get. It is true, we may need to get worse before we ultimately get better.

Eric_in_Portland
Legend
4 months ago
Reply to  Roy Hobbs

Not only do I disagree with you, I also agree with you. Torn, mixed emotions

Roy Hobbs
Super Member
4 months ago

What is it that you don’t agree with Eric?

Eric_in_Portland
Legend
4 months ago
Reply to  Roy Hobbs

The idea of going 40-122 next season

Roy Hobbs
Super Member
4 months ago

I get that.

Roy Hobbs
Super Member
4 months ago
Reply to  Roy Hobbs

It’s possible we have a rotation of Soriano, Canning, Silseth, Detmers, and Dana next year and they all pitch to their ceilings. Then again, it might not happen. There is room for hope regarding our starting pitching, and we could acquire additional starters via trade and FA signing, or maybe even one of the guys we drafted. Things look a bit better for 2026 though. It just may take next year to figure out our BP and Starting pitching for 2026. I don’t think next year will be that bad. We might have a healthy Trout and maybe a youngster or two will break out. The key will be to not get tempted and stay the course for 2026.

Twebur
Legend
4 months ago

Agree to disagree…..and, agree to agree.

Eric_in_Portland
Legend
4 months ago
Reply to  Twebur

me too, sort of

Twebur
Legend
4 months ago

With the recent dominance by the A’ss over us………I think this Sam No Hat guy is a treasonous traitor spy! He has access to our clubhouse, all the binders of our proprietary “The Angel Way” 😂…. and he hangs out with the A’ss? Ward was going to Pittsburgh for all that talent, then Sammy goes to Pittsburgh for the Philly Series? And Ward is still Angel. He hates Arte, he hates the Angels, he hate us! He’s sabotaging us!

Prove me wrong I say! 😀😀

And by the way, it’s been a while, but FUCK the A’ss! Forgot how much I dislike these guys! 3rd best team in the AL West, Again! They are on their 3rd successful rebuild in the last 15 years. And the Angels haven’t even decided if we should start a rebuild. (Sure wish we could figure out where they find all these bats)

Sam No Hat secret meeting with a Spy in our Home Land!
https://x.com/RFWill149/status/1817054443688558717

Fansince1971
Legend
4 months ago

As we approach the trade deadline this year, last year’s Quero and Bush trade for what was essentially a 1 month rental of Lucas Giolito still frustrates me. It was just SOOO STOOPID.

Quero is a 21-year-old top-100 stud prospect and will likely be in the Majors in ‘25 . In 72 games this season at AA he has 70 hits with an .OPS of .822 with 12HR and 53 RBI.

Bush, age 24, is 7-2 between AA and AAA with a 2.12 ERA and a WHIP of 1.029. He will likely be called up when rosters expand.

Even with a good farm system this would be considered a bad trade With the Angels terrible farm system this trade was devastating.

Let’s hope the Org is not fooled again by the Angels position (less than 10 back of 1st) in a terrible Division and foolishly buy at the deadline. This is a year to trade anyone other than Neto, O’Hoppe, Schanuel and Joyce for young talent.

Last edited 4 months ago by Fansince1971
MarineLayer
Super Member
4 months ago
Reply to  Fansince1971

Minasian was and is a sucker and I have zero confidence he will make good deadline moves.

Pineapple12
Super Member
4 months ago
Reply to  MarineLayer

Giolito trade turned out as badly as humanly possible.

Does Perry get any credit for the deadline move that brought us our franchise catcher?

Last edited 4 months ago by Pineapple12
Fansince1971
Legend
4 months ago
Reply to  Pineapple12

For sure. But that was a different kind of move. A young player that helped fill a need for Philly for a top prospect that helped the Angels. I like those kinds of moves for this team as opposed to trading away young talent for a mid-season rental of a veteran player.

If the Angels still had Quero (for example) the Org could be looking to trade him to fill a place of need such as a young stud 3Bman.

The Angels had no business being buyers last year at the deadline. It was more stupidity from an Organization that is setting the standard for incompetence.

Last edited 4 months ago by Fansince1971
Pineapple12
Super Member
4 months ago
Reply to  Fansince1971

Totally.

So assuming that Perry will be allowed to sell oppose to buy, he’ll have the opportunity to continue to add young talent to the org.

Last year’s f-ck up doesn’t automatically guarantee Perry will f-ck it up again. Just gotta wait see what happens.

Last edited 4 months ago by Pineapple12
Cowboy26
Legend
4 months ago
Reply to  Pineapple12

It’s apples and oranges. Selling in this case is from a position of strength. Buying last year obviously was not and was more out of desperation.

As I’ve alluded to before, I dont believe the Angels have been in this similar position for many years with the exception of an occasional Packy Naughton deal. Much of this was their own doing.

So we really dont know how effective Perry will do in this new found position. He obviously has the ability to identify talent. I think the O’Hoppe trade illustrates that along with his body of work as a former scout and AGM. But definitely , like the draft the decisions the Angels make here will definitely impact both the short term and long term success if this team.

MarineLayer
Super Member
4 months ago
Reply to  Pineapple12

Yes, but that and Neto are literally the only ones that a clearly positive. Maybe I’m missing something. But… there is a whole pile of crap he is responsible for. I’m too GA to go through it and value my sanity too much to remind myself of it.

JackFrost
Super Member
4 months ago

Well, the last two nights really encapsulate what is holding the Angels back from being a winning team. While the Angels DO have talent, it is mostly on the offensive side and in the bullpen. Aside from two guys (Anderson and Soriano) the starting pitching is horrid.

That is point number one. But the larger point is organizational, and it has to do with all of the factors that make up “culture” and those intangibles that are so important to winning. In a sport where the margins between winning and losing are typically very small these things usually make the difference.

So many 1 run losses. The Angels players have heart. The effort is there. I don’t attack them on that account. Wash has them giving effort. But the Angels organization most importantly lacks “brains.” This of course starts at the top with good ol’ Arte and flows down through Crapino and all the underlings. But really it begins with Arte’s refusal to hire smart baseball people to carry out insightful analysis and make key decisions across the board. As for Perry, I think he has at least been passable. He’s made some very good decisions and some not so good. However, he does not have the organizational acumen around him and in the minors that would tend to support his success as a GM.

Let’s start with scouting. We all know Arte thinks very little of this craft. It has been the case for quite some time that the Angels org has been just bad at drafting and developing players. Perhaps more importantly they are worse at preparing for opponents. For as long as I can remember they have been horrible at advance scouting. This is an important part of the game. Compared to most of the teams the Angels face they fall miserably short. Series after series you see them unprepared for the opposition. This is most obvious in that their pitchers are clearly unprepared for the opposing hitters they face.

Yeah, I know every team has their routine of pre-series team reviews. But I would just love to be a fly on the wall for one of these Angels chats. I continually see them pitching to batters they should not be pitching to and throwing pitches to batters they should not be throwing. This is what advance scouting is for. The manager of course does not have the time to prep for every opponent and know who is hot and who is thriving in what situation etc. They need the stats and the lowdown in order to adequately prepare.

The most recent example is this series against the A’s. How in the world are Wash and staff allowing Brent Rooker to beat them? He has beat them two straight games! If I were a manager I would go into each and every series asking myself “What player on the opposing team will I not allow to beat me?” I think the exception would be when you have an incredibly balanced offensive opponent. That does not happen often though. The A’s are certainly not that.

Rooker has CLEARLY been their hottest hitter. He killed us in Oakland and over the last 10 games he has been blistering. He has a .342 AVG with 7 HR, 16 RBI and a .947 SLG percentage ! The Angels had to know this. At least they should have. For chrissakes it happened right in front of their own eyes ! You simply can’t pitch to this guy right now. Let somebody else beat you (if they can, and I have my doubts since Oakland is not a deep team offensively). By not pitch to him I don’t mean walk him automatically every AB, but rather don’t give him anything good to hit. You instruct your pitchers to only pitch him just off the plate or only on the outer edges of the zone. If he swings and gets himself out, then great. If not, then let him take his base.. But you CAN’T give him the long ball.

If the Angels had just done the smart thing, the obvious thing, then they are likely 2-0 in this series instead of 0-2. By just doing one thing.

But no, it didn’t play out that way. Because the Angels are not “smart.” They try hard and they have heart, but so do most if not all other teams. You need every edge you can get in baseball. You can’t afford to do stupid things ( such as dumb baserunning by Moniak on Thursday and Young/Adell last night). Details matter. Preparation matters.

While I do feel Washington has brought some real positives to the team (such as his emphasis on defensive consistency and the utilization of regular defensive drills) it is just not enough. But as I suggested earlier he can’t do it all by himself.

The Rooker example is not an isolated case. I think back to recent series with the Guardians when Ramirez beat us repeatedly, or a last season series in Cleveland where a scorching hot Naylor beat them repeatedly with HR’s day after day, game after game and the team made ZERO adustments by saying ‘”This guy won’t beat us again today.”

So, while I really like alot of our players I am just sick and tired of seeing an organization who falls so flat when it comes to the really obvious, mental and strategic aspects of baseball.

Last edited 4 months ago by JackFrost
DMAGZ13
Trusted Member
4 months ago
Reply to  JackFrost

Frost, this is what I’ve been trying to find out more about the last 6-7 years. The Angels don’t have any insight on the secret sauce that teams like the As, Rays, Dodgers, Clevelands,, Braves and a bunch of others do. Game day operations. Strategy , scouting, game plan. We don’t have it. I believe that if we had any of this, they’d be closer to a .500 type of squad over the past 6-7 years. This is outside of the individual player minor league development or scouting. It’s the stuff that our staff should be having the players do. I wonder how many of the Jam Jones, Jordyn Adams, Jose Rojas, David McKinnon would’ve been more serviceable AAAA players than total bums

Roy Hobbs
Super Member
4 months ago
Reply to  JackFrost

I agree the biggest weakness is starting pitching and I believe their bullpen may be pretty decent going forward, but I do not agree that they have much offensive talent, which also contribute to the results. I think their offense is right behind the bullpen. Without Trout, they essentially have 3 players, Neto, Logan, and Heefo. 2 above average and 1 average player. If you’re generous and you toss in Schanuel, they have another “average player”, so generously 4 players against another teams 7-9. The few guys we have cannot sustain a team. They’re not going to hit everyday. Ultimately we need 2-3 stars and 3 more average to above average players. Next year will be another development year but ultimately, barring significant change, long term they need 2 OFs a 2B, a 3B if they trade Heefo, and a DH. 2 of those players need to be middle of the order bats.

I forgot about Ward but he has been a slightly below average player this year. He either get’s traded, needs to perform at a higher level, or gets replaced in 26 when they might have a chance to win. The club needs to methodically and incrementally start addressing these needs while also trying to build a minor league pipeline. They’re not just all of a sudden going to show up in 2026 without a plan that acquires them.

My plan would be that I assume this is what I need to compete in 2026-27 and if there are surprises that’s great. I would not count on Trout to be healthy or for Moniak, Adel, or Schanuel to be the answer although 1 or more of them will be playing all of 2025. I’m Hoping Moore can play 2B next year and they can add 1 more starting position player, then add 2 more in 2026 so that you don’t have to find them all at the same time. In the mean time we have trades we can make and 2 more months to see what Moniak, Adel, and Schanuel do this year. They’ve all been different levels of bad this year but if they do well for 2 months, or in Schanuel’s case 3 months, you may find one or more of the players you’re looking for. Maybe you go shopping in 2026 as well. For now they just need to acquire as many assets as they can.

JackFrost
Super Member
4 months ago
Reply to  Roy Hobbs

Have to disagree a little bit about the offensive talent. You did admit you left out/ forgot about Ward. We shoudn’t do that. Despite his current slump (maybe coming out of it a bit, hit the HR last night etc..) he has for most of the season been a top 10 OF in the AL and probably top 15 in all of baseball. He needs to be included.

So, here are our talented bats. I say they are all “good” and a couple (the first two) are “very good.” With the news that Trout’s MRI was negative it is likely he WILL be back soon so I am including him :

Trout
Rengifo
O’Hoppe
Ward
Neto
Schanuel

So, that is at least 6 good bats. I also differ with your assessment that most other teams have 7-9. I don’t think there is any team with 9 good bats. Maybe Baltimore… But most teams don’t have 8 or even 7 good bats, so I think you are off there…

Last edited 4 months ago by JackFrost
Roy Hobbs
Super Member
4 months ago
Reply to  JackFrost

That’s fair, we just disagree on Ward and Schanuel. If it was me, I would not include Ward in my long term plans because of his age and his numbers are what they are. He has 97 OPS+ for the year. I know you really like him but a 30 year old 97 OPS+ player is not who I would want in left field. Schanuel is only 22 and you’ll have the rest of this year and all of next year to see what happens. He’s been doing better for the last 3-4 weeks but prior to that he was awful and Trout is not currently playing. Everyone has another 2 months this year and next year as well for most. The bottom line though is that I believe we are at an offensive disadvantage against most teams right now.

Roy Hobbs
Super Member
4 months ago
Reply to  Roy Hobbs

The short answer is, for whatever reason, we are currently 26th out of 30 teams for runs scored. We are only ahead of the Rays, Mariners, Marlins, and the White Sox. That combined with the fact that we are 29th in runs given up per game. It’s a miracle we have won as many games as we have.

Last edited 4 months ago by Roy Hobbs
Senator_John_Blutarsky
Legend
4 months ago

comment image&ct=g

halofansince1978
Super Member
4 months ago

At this point losing to the A’s must be a thing!!

Twebur
Legend
4 months ago

A’ss blowing up, like they do. Wake one morning thinking they blow….next thing you know their offense BLOWS UP! Then they trade for and develop some pitching….then 4 or 5 years later trade everyone away, and start over……………while the Angels, continue with- trAdition.

This is how the A’ss roll. We been debacled by them, fleeing from their bats.
https://x.com/volcaholic1/status/1816429182617899160

Pineapple12
Super Member
4 months ago
Reply to  Cowboy26

Dana is that dude!

Jeff Joiner
Editor
Legend
4 months ago

I was following on game day. Saw the 4 spot in the bottom of the first and told my mom. “I have to see how they blow this.”

Fire sale begin yet?

Cowboy26
Legend
4 months ago
Reply to  Jeff Joiner

Sorry guys I was at the game tonight. So you know it was not going to end well.

But WTF was EY thinking? That was one of the worst 3B Coaching decisions I have ever seen.

Last edited 4 months ago by Cowboy26
Pineapple12
Super Member
4 months ago
Reply to  Cowboy26

Sorry you didn’t get to catch a W tonight, CB!

And that send was BONKERS lol

JackFrost
Super Member
4 months ago
Reply to  Cowboy26

That play totally changed the momentum and turned the game.

DowningDude
Legend
4 months ago

I demand a refund on my pre-paid playoff tickets

Cowboy26
Legend
4 months ago
Reply to  DowningDude

Dont Worry . Uncle Arte will apply it to next years golden fan experience.

Last edited 4 months ago by Cowboy26