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LA Angels Tuesday News Crash: Downward Spiral

September 19, 2023

The Angels ratcheted downward another four spots on the Fangraphs Power Rankings to number 24.

Hold onto your butts. Patrick Sandoval starts tonight. Maybe they should use Loup as an opener and do things up right. Kyren Paris is suffering from left thumb soreness after making a tag on Saturday. Reid Detmers is sick. Jared Walsh habla Ingles with Sam Blum on the Athletic if you have access.

The Reds designated Hunter Renfroe for assignment on Monday because they reinstated outfielder Stuart Fairchild from the COVID list. All this is notwithstanding the fact that they placed outfielder Harrison Bader on the IL with a right groin strain. Renfroe apparently did not impress. Meanwhile, Guardians pitcher Tanner Bibee is now on the 15 day IL with right hip inflammation.

It looks like the Guardians are trying to get Lucas Giolito’s slider back to the way it was before he came to the Angels.

The title of this article about the Orioles clinching a playoff spot says “The philosophy paid off.” Presumably, the philosophy is “The philosophy of not sucking.”

The Tampa Bay Rays say they have a deal to build a new stadium in St. Petersberg.

Photo credit: Rex Fregosi

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Super Member

Kiyotchan

6 days ago

Neato Neto has tied the game with a homer!

Legend

DowningDude

6 days ago

Reply to Kiyotchan

There is a gamethread

Super Member

BannedInLA

6 days ago

Joe Adell has been activated. Nice.

Super Member

FungoAle

6 days ago

Reply to BannedInLA

The band is getting back together, Trout coming too?

Super Member

BannedInLA

6 days ago

Reply to FungoAle

Doubt it, though I’d love to eat crow here.

Trout’s 4-8 week prognosis has predictably turned into 10 weeks and counting.

Legend

Senator_John_Blutarsky

6 days ago

Reply to BannedInLA

It’s a bitch getting old

Super Member

Brent

6 days ago

https://x.com/TalkinBaseball_/status/1704249544198824052?s=20

Shohei Ohtani underwent elbow surgery this morning, his agent says

Ohtani is expected to be able to hit by Opening Day 2024 and pitch again in 2025

(via @chelsea_janes
)

Last edited 6 days ago by Brent

Super Member

MarineLayer

6 days ago

Reply to Brent

I half expect him to in the dugout tonight and DHing early next week (I know he’s on the IL).

Super Member

Brent

6 days ago

Remaining schedule:

3 @ TB
3 @ MIN
3 Home VS TEX
Day off
3 Home VS OAK

What’s your prediction for the rest of the season?

I’m guessing 4-6, being swept by TB, 1 win vs MIN, 1 vs TEX, and 2 vs OAK (losing the finale).

Legend

DowningDude

6 days ago

Reply to Brent

Math isn’t your strongest subject

There are 12 games left. 4-6 is only 10

But I agree 4-8 should be the total making me be the only winner in pre-season record picking at 72-90.

Super Member

Brent

6 days ago

Reply to DowningDude

lol you’re right…. messed that math up. 4-8.

Last edited 6 days ago by Brent

Super Member

BannedInLA

6 days ago

Reply to Brent

Dat be American edumuhcation for you !!!

Super Member

Brent

6 days ago

Reply to BannedInLA

I was told to lead, not to read, mmmkay hooah.

Legend

gitchogritchoffmypettis

6 days ago

Reply to DowningDude

We need to do a pre-season “How many games will our starting 25 man roster miss to injury this year?” pick.

If the gods hate us, we all pick high and they “get” us by Trout playing 155 games next year and Rendon having 16 WAR.

Super Member

Brent

6 days ago

Reply to Brent

4-8*, not 4-6 ::Facepalm::

Legend

DowningDude

6 days ago

Reply to Brent

Super Member

FungoAle

6 days ago

Reply to Brent

Phil said the fans deserve that the Angels finish the season out strong. He has me convinced, 5-7

Super Member

MarineLayer

6 days ago

Reply to Brent

Whatever the math, I’ll take the under.

Trusted Member

Marcotor

6 days ago

I am confused. The Angels can’t develop talent, but we’re all rooting for an earlier position to “waste” a draft pick?

Legend

Twebur

6 days ago

Reply to Marcotor

……we need to root for something. And we are kind of good at losing.

Trusted Member

2GA2Join

6 days ago

Reply to Marcotor

If we have a low draft pick, then we have no choice, and lose the ability to pick the players that get taken earlier.

If we have a high draft pick, then at least we have the choice of picking from more players.

If you miss out on certain players that are good, then you don’t have them for sure.

Whether or not we are good at developing is a separate issue that comes afterwards. But we are guaranteed to not develop the superstar guy if we didn’t draft him in the first place.

Editor

Legend

Jeff Joiner

6 days ago

Reply to Marcotor

I think Perry has recognized that the Angels don’t develop talent so he’s taking college players that are pretty much already developed and can be in the bigs soon.

The earlier we draft, the more likely we are to get a guy who has been developed by an SEC school and can bypass getting screwed up by our minor league system.

Legend

Cowboy26

6 days ago

Reply to Jeff Joiner

Then how do explain the renewed focus on International signings? The 66ers have won 2 Cal League playoff berths the last 2 years playing very young international players.( Or as Tom Kotchman would call them “The Dominicans”)

It would appear that our development struggles are happening primarily at the higher levels of the organization.

Legend

gitchogritchoffmypettis

6 days ago

Reply to Cowboy26

I know it may seem like PTP’s been around for ten years because of our high daily bitch rate, but he hasn’t. From what I can tell with my Lylin Eyes the farm system is getting better at developing guys, but isn’t GOOD yet… which is probably realistic improvement when talking about 5 baseball teams changing what they do and how they do it.

PTP’s college guy first picks have been meant to plug holes fast and bypass development all together…. even teams with good development tend to need 3-4 years to mold a guy.

So it’s kind of two separate groups of prospects. But you are right, the lower level kids do seem to be getting better as a pool, if not overflowing with top 100 prospects.

Super Member

FungoAle

6 days ago

Reply to Jeff Joiner

But I thought Perry was building this super farm?

Super Member

FungoAle

6 days ago

Reply to Marcotor

Higher the better, to question that requires a mirror.

Legend

gitchogritchoffmypettis

6 days ago

Reply to Marcotor

Honestly, unless our pick is in the top 5 it doesn’t really matter if we pick 8th, 10th or 11th. Just look at all the chapped twats around here who love to list off all the players that were available after every pick we make in the draft.

I’m rooting for three more scouts before next draft.

Legend

Senator_John_Blutarsky

6 days ago

Reply to Marcotor

Yes. The higher the talent, the higher the floor. We live for very high floors

Super Member

nishiogawakun

6 days ago

Just learned about a published team focused satisfaction survey that the NFL Players Association has and it was really interesting. I wonder if this isn’t far away from the other leagues. I’d be VERY interested in learning the Angels scores. To me, it would either put to rest a bunch of rumors or really make things clear.

https://nflpa.com/nfl-player-team-report-cards

Legend

Twebur

6 days ago

Reply to nishiogawakun

Perceived as a world-class elite franchise coming off a Super Bowl Championship season.
Lots of low grades……..
https://nflpa.com/kansas-city-chiefs-report-card

Legend

Cowboy26

6 days ago

Reply to Twebur

All this study proves is that happy & content players dont necessarily translate into wins for your franchise,

Trusted Member

Marcotor

6 days ago

Reply to Cowboy26

But.. the beach! The Rally Monkey! Disneyland! MIKE F’ING TROUT! What player (FA or potential draftee) wouldn’t LOVE to come here?

Legend

gitchogritchoffmypettis

6 days ago

Reply to Marcotor

Taxes. Fanbase. Hobo poop…. everything a kid from Georgia dreams of.

Super Member

nishiogawakun

6 days ago

Reply to Cowboy26

I think that is a fair take, after all, it’s just data. But in the podcast I listened to discussing it, it was mentioned that having a generational talent is one of the best “deodorants” for other deficiencies. Given that baseball players’ careers tend to be longer than football players’, and that it takes longer to become an UFA, I wonder if these things are considered more? Or maybe there’s more longer term consequences that a survey taken only once so far won’t capture yet. Even more I’d be curious about the same survey for minor league teams.

Last edited 6 days ago by nishiogawakun

Legend

Twebur

6 days ago

Adell sighting.
Free Jo
https://x.com/JeffFletcherOCR/status/1704214100455129555?s=20

Legend

DowningDude

6 days ago

Reply to Twebur

I preferred Blair over Jo Tootie and Natalie

Legend

Twebur

6 days ago

Last game of the season is October 1st, it’s a day game. That is Groundkeepers Day. That is where our head groundskeeper escorts “Punxsutawney Phillip” out on the field, in front of owner Sh’Artey Moreno. If Phil emerges from his dugout and sees his shadow, supposedly this means he will hang around for another year as manager.

If no shadow appears, and I assure you there will be a full, bright sun, what 2nd rate/washed up/unknown puppet/leftover/tank commander of a manager do we hire this time around? My guess someone already in the org., or a fired M’s manager Scott “Lemon Butt” Servais (just to piss us off).

Trusted Member

2GA2Join

6 days ago

Wait, Moore just got claimed again?

I feel like I missed something. Wasn’t he like our best reliever? Why did Cleveland just let him go now? Did they wave the white flag too? (I don’t follow what is going on as much anymore)

Legend

DowningDude

6 days ago

Reply to 2GA2Join

Cleveland is out of it now. Nearly impossible to catch the Twits.

Legend

Twebur

6 days ago

Reply to DowningDude

Cleveland is out of it now. Nearly impossible to catch the ~~Twits~~ Ravens.
And it’s only week two in the NFL season

Legend

DowningDude

6 days ago

Reply to Twebur

CLEVELAND SUCKS

Legend

Twebur

6 days ago

Reply to DowningDude

…..at least we’re not Detroit…………..we’re not Detroit!

Legend

gitchogritchoffmypettis

6 days ago

Reply to Twebur

SEAGULL!

Trusted Member

grichmanpoorman

6 days ago

CQ: The Orioles’ philosophy is plainly “to suck very bad for 4-5 years, and then not suck.”

Super Member

MarineLayer

6 days ago

I love how Paris’s minor injury turns into a 60 day IL stint. So Angels.

Editor

Legend

Jeff Joiner

6 days ago

Sandoval’s down year is among the most disappointing things this year. I really expected him to hit his prime and emerge as a solid 2 behind Ohtani.

He looked so great during the WBC, further building up my hopes.

But he took a major step back.

Last edited 6 days ago by Jeff Joiner

Super Member

MarineLayer

6 days ago

Reply to Jeff Joiner

Giolito’s rejuvenation in Cleveland proves that the Angels coaching and culture is completely broken down. I suspect if Sandoval ended up on a team like the Guardians we see similar results.

Super Member

matthiasstephan

6 days ago

Reply to MarineLayer

Is it Wise? Driveline? Are they being too rigid with spin rate? Trying to standardize too much?

Trusted Member

Mikeal1st

6 days ago

Reply to MarineLayer

The Angels appear to be following a philosophy for pitching that makes players worse. His ERA is the same but WHIP has fallen to 1.00.

Trusted Member

grichmanpoorman

6 days ago

Reply to MarineLayer

Rejuvenation? He has a f*cking 5.86 ERA with Cleveland. And is that really your theory? That our coaches got in there and effed up his delivery in the 12 hours between the time the team traded for him and the time he started sucking?

Super Member

MarineLayer

6 days ago

Reply to grichmanpoorman

It’s the last two games, including the seven inning shutout with 12 Ks.

Legend

Cowboy26

6 days ago

Reply to MarineLayer

One of the games was against the Angels. the Other game was against the Rangers. Considering Detmers last start against the struggling Rangers in Arlington not sure thats any great feat either.

I’m with you G Man. I’m not predicting anymore sunshine with Lucas despite the Cleveland pitching brain trust. My forecast for Gio remains cloudy with a chance of hyperbole.

Last edited 6 days ago by Cowboy26

Trusted Member

Mikeal1st

6 days ago

Reply to Jeff Joiner

I’m not sure last year’s good start wasn’t more disappointing, my hopes got up a lot more after that. It felt like a mor Buttercup year than this one. Don’t get me wrong, this year was another Buttercup… I just think last years was wors IMO.

Legend

Cowboy26

6 days ago

Reply to Jeff Joiner

Well it doesn’t help that he leads the majors this season in giving up unearned runs.

Legend

Twebur

6 days ago

Reply to Cowboy26

He needs to add some more “spinal fluid” to help him get through the error-prone defense. He’s down about a quart. Dr Nick should know this.

Legend

Cowboy26

6 days ago

Reply to Twebur

I’m in agreement Tweebs. Sandy has given up 23 unearned runs to date which is about twice as much as anyone else in the league . I know our defense is bad but I think this mostly a mental issue with Sandy where he falls apart as soon as his defense lets him down.

Editor

Legend

Jeff Joiner

6 days ago

Reply to Cowboy26

Agreed. Baseball is one game where trying too hard and/or getting frustrated can make things worse.

Trusted Member

SC_Halo

6 days ago

Reply to Jeff Joiner

if buttercup was a pitcher…

Super Member

FungoAle

6 days ago

Reply to Jeff Joiner

Hitters are laying off the slop and making him throw strikes, getting hit and allowing 9.1 hits per 9 innings. Also, strikeout to walk ratio is 2-1, not good. Translates to inconsistencies.

Legend

Fansince1971

7 days ago

Orioles philosophy was to trade for young players and use the draft to stock up on talent. Scouting. Player development. All of this led to a team that was mired in 100 loss seasons to suddenly emerge as a 100 game winner.

The Angels should have a similar approach and patience. But they won’t due to their marketing-centric, meddling and impulsive owner.

And so it goes.

Legend

Fansince1971

6 days ago

Reply to Fansince1971

Oh and did I mention the Orioles have a total payroll of $100m which is than half the Angels?

Last edited 6 days ago by Fansince1971

Super Member

MarineLayer

6 days ago

Reply to Fansince1971

It will interesting to see what happens when all the young players reach the big contract portion of their careers. Maybe they can lock them up early like Atlanta did and keep the band together.

Super Member

matthiasstephan

6 days ago

Reply to MarineLayer

First we have to see who actually plays well in the band.

Trusted Member

Biggiswrth

6 days ago

Reply to Fansince1971

I don’t buy this. If we want to tear it all down and be TERRIBLE for 3-4 years, then yes we can build the same way. The Angels have access to $200 MIL for payroll so they can still spend and not be aweful, but they aren’t restocking the minors well to keep the pipline going. We should shed a lot of payroll this offseason and start working on the youth foundation we are building. Draft picks will be good, but our development at the minor level needs to be better.

Trusted Member

2GA2Join

6 days ago

Reply to Biggiswrth

This is the Dodgers method. When they did the big rebuild but simultaneously stocked up on expensive free agents and Boston’s players to get them through the rebuilding of their farm (which sure didn’t take long, since now they are cranking out top prospects again).

The fact that they went from the McCourt era back to dominating again gives me hope that we can do it too, with the right owner and management.

Trusted Member

Biggiswrth

6 days ago

Reply to 2GA2Join

Yep, with the rigth management and plan, the Dodgers method can be put in place with this team. They aren’t small market and have a top 10 payroll year after year. They just need a better plan with FA in the future, but change some of that money (payroll) over he next 203 years and invest in the lower levels of players, staff, and resources. Build the foundation, but bring in guys that still put butts in the seats. The Angels shouldn’t ever be one of the worst 5 in baseball with that payroll amount. A lottery pick and restocking in the draft shouldn’t be the “full” plan here.

Legend

Fansince1971

6 days ago

Reply to Biggiswrth

The Dodgers method will not be put into place here because the Angels Organization cannot hold a candle to the Dodgers. Until Arte and his cronies are gone nothing will change.

Last edited 6 days ago by Fansince1971

Legend

Cowboy26

6 days ago

Reply to Fansince1971

Thats true we only choke in the regular season instead of the playoffs.

Legend

Fansince1971

6 days ago

Reply to Biggiswrth

I get what you are saying and somewhat agree that without solid player development, the tear down, draft and develop/rebuild is less likely to be successful.

That said, the Angels have been mired in the middle for a decade. What they are doing is not working. Yes they put a ‘competitive’ product on the field by spending money but lack a cohesive philosophy regarding scouting, drafting and developing players.

Honestly, I don’t expect any of it to change until this Org is torn down and rebuilt with new ownership. Until then the team will be mired in mediocrity.

Trusted Member

2GA2Join

6 days ago

Reply to Fansince1971

I think the foreign scouting can be a big deal too. Historically the Dodgers were really strong on that. During the McCourt era, I figure that dried up, but it seems they have tapped into it again. And look at the pitchers the Astros got out of the international scouting too. We need to crank that up.

But overall, the main change seems to be a new owner, because Arte has shown that he just doesn’t put the focus and the money in the right places.

Legend

Cowboy26

6 days ago

Reply to 2GA2Join

you can’t hit it big if you’re only scouting half the action.

Legend

gitchogritchoffmypettis

6 days ago

Reply to Fansince1971

If you look at upcoming free agent markets pretty much every team is gonna become “farm focused” soon. There are going to be very few free agents out there that aren’t either meh or a big financial mistake…. like Ohtani this winter.

It’s not gonna surprise me at all if a bunch of teams look like the Astros to Braves model soon where they develop a lot of players and then pay them large but not overly large money for their prime via early extensions. I think the days of trying to get most of a players prime years cheap have passed. Teams will look to keep and pay a good player through age 32 or so and then let him go be overpriced on the FA market.

This will lead to a lot of teams having lean years full of failed prospects. Also overpaid failed prospects.

The Angels bitch ass fan base may not enjoy this much…. I do think, in the long run, it will be good though. I just don’t know how many 38 year old players will be around once guys like Trout’s contract run out.

It’s also not gonna shock me if we trade Trout and finally do a rebuild…. a rebuild that would likely mean Arte sells, so there’s that for those of us that think that’s gonna make a huge difference. I’m fine with watching Neto/Shamwow/O’Hoppe and some other kids flounder for a couple years if the team really goes out and tries to farm the shit out of things.

Super Member

nishiogawakun

6 days ago

Reply to gitchogritchoffmypettis

Good points, and honestly, there is something kind of nice about seeing some of the same faces year after year. I find it also a little interesting given that some leagues/sports (like college basketball and football too) seem to be going full transfer portal/mercenary mode in the opposite direction. It’ll be interesting to see where things are in 10 years time.

Legend

Fansince1971

6 days ago

Reply to gitchogritchoffmypettis

This is exactly where I am. I’d rather win 70 games with kids who are improving and learning the game than win 70 games with a bunch of overpriced and overhyped free agents.

Your analysis of the future direction for franchises and free agents is really interesting. I think you are spot on.

Legend

Cowboy26

6 days ago

Reply to Fansince1971

Its same approach of the Trashstros. in fact it is key personnel from Houston that has rebuilt the O’s.

Member

Roy Hobbs

6 days ago

Reply to Fansince1971

It’s unfortunately water under the bridge at this point but, not trading Ohtani to the Dodgers for some key pieces going forward, has really made the future more challenging. They didn’t need a haul, just some key pieces. They have a nice group of young players who will get more expensive by the time rebuilding takes place. The Dodger method makes the most sense if they are willing to spend the money and they have the right people in the organization making decisions. That’s a giant if. And even the version of Trout from last year was still 130 OPS+ player with potential for improvement. The right people could make this organization a playoff team very quickly while rebuilding the farm.

Legend

Fansince1971

6 days ago

Reply to Roy Hobbs

The “right people” is the issue. We can only hope that Arte tired of all of this and sells the franchise.

Super Member

AnAngelsFan

7 days ago

Well, at least that Giolito article is about him returning to his March/April slider, rather than about the Angels ruining him. It sure would be nice to be the team that fixes a pitcher for once.

Editor

Legend

Jeff Joiner

6 days ago

Reply to AnAngelsFan

That would require hiring competent coaches and implementing quality video teams. Those cost money that could be better spent on free agents like Rendon.

Arte knows what he’s doing.

Super Member

MarineLayer

6 days ago

Reply to Jeff Joiner

as I’ve been saying for a long time, Rendon is toxic. How do the plan to get rid of him.

Legend

Cowboy26

6 days ago

Reply to MarineLayer

I thought that was your job ML

Super Member

MarineLayer

6 days ago

Reply to Cowboy26

Give me the authority, and it will be the first move I make.

Legend

gitchogritchoffmypettis

6 days ago

Reply to MarineLayer

And yet…. still a just plain better all around guy than you. It eats at you so so much. You probably weigh 120 lbs now. What’s he getting 38M next year? And the two years after?

Man I love that guy. By the time he collects all those dollars you’ll be a hemorrhoid with shoes.