Angels Listless in Loss

This game was a microcosm of the 2023 Angels. Starting pitcher Reid Detmers was effective but not efficient. The offense loaded the bases with no outs in the bottom of the fourth and scored no runs .

The Pirates immediately made the Angels pay by taking a 2-0 lead in the top of the 5th.
Expectations for the offense were low with Rengifo leading off and Squid playing short. So this kind of looked a a 2022 game minus Jack Mayfield

Detmers went 5 innings giving up 2 runs. He did strike out 9 Buccos though.

Cy Rookie kept the Angels off the board and Gerardo Reyes gave up a bomb to make it 3-0 Pittsburgh.

Honestly from this point on I was primarily watching boxing. The Angels weren’t showing any fight. Although they did a bit by loading the bases in the 9th. But they didn’t score

Tomorrow we’ll see if we blow the series or just lose this one.


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angelslogic
Super Member
8 months ago

Same shitty line up pretty much today.

FungoAle
Super Member
8 months ago
Reply to  angelslogic

Lil Shitty Shitty Bang Bang…

Kiyotchan
Super Member
8 months ago

I don’t mean to add to the somberness that some of us are having today, but there is some creditable chance that this game might be the last home game for Sho as Angel.

Here is Rhett’s twitter saying that Sho is not a projected starter for upcoming series in Detroit. His thought for Sho probably pitching on next Apple TV+ Friday’s game is likely outcome, but another way of looking at it is that he may not be in Toronto next weekend.
https://twitter.com/RhettBollinger/status/1683171340537454593

Kiyotchan
Super Member
8 months ago
Reply to  Kiyotchan

I feel good that Peacock/Comcast/NBC is thinking that Sho still would be in Toronto next Sunday. Next Sunday Peacock MLB Leadoff game is the Angels game @ Toronto. Disclaimer: I don’t receive $ from  🍑 -ch  🐓 .

Twebur
Legend
8 months ago

Now, 7-4 Rangers.

HatcherIsMyHomeBoy
Trusted Member
8 months ago
Reply to  Twebur

They just worked over the young Doyer starter brought him in the zone and got busy. Give them credit

FungoAle
Super Member
8 months ago
Reply to  Twebur

Rangers do have some sticks. 3 guys; Jung, Heim and Taveras have stepped up their game. Plus…7th ranked farm. Sure to take over as the head of the class in the AL West for the next few years.

FungoAle
Super Member
8 months ago

Watching the HOF inductions, the “Crime Dog” Fred McGriff, what a class guy. Pure baseball. But just turned the channel with Rolen’s turn coming up. Not worthy.

halofansince1978
Super Member
8 months ago
Reply to  FungoAle

Rolen is NOT a Hall of Famer.

MarineLayer
Super Member
8 months ago

Where is Bobby Grich?

HatcherIsMyHomeBoy
Trusted Member
8 months ago

The Doyers are just freaking relentlessly attacking the Rangers buttholes. Muncy with a Grand Slam. 4-0 Doyers in the 1st.

Fansince1971
Legend
8 months ago

The better the Dodgers do, the more likely they will aggressively go after Ohtani in a trade to set themselves up to win a WS.

HatcherIsMyHomeBoy
Trusted Member
8 months ago
Reply to  Fansince1971

Zero chance Arte ok’s a trade to the Doyers. They could offer freeman and mookie and he’d still say no

Fansince1971
Legend
8 months ago

Probably true. But they do have a lot of prospects. They can probably offer the best deal of any franchise, but you are probably correct in terms of.Arte’s viewpoint.

Twebur
Legend
8 months ago
Reply to  Fansince1971

Not 100% certain this opinion is accurate? But, tell me the last time the Doyers made a big trade involving their “Top Prospects” where those “Top Prospects” turned out to be the “Top Prospects” they were claimed to be? I honestly don’t remember any. They get away from that organization and they seem to become Meh.

FungoAle
Super Member
8 months ago
Reply to  Twebur

Dodgers and Yanks have always had helium in their prospect farm reports..

Speaking of farms, Angels are 3rd from the bottom by looking at Fangraphs who still have Neto and O’Hoppe as rookies so the Angels really only have one 50 FV player in Quero. Looking closer, the Angels have the “fewest” count of players who even grade high enough (35+ FV) of all MLB teams. Not good Per-Per.

HatcherIsMyHomeBoy
Trusted Member
8 months ago
Reply to  Twebur

They do a great job at fleecing teams. They know which of their prospects are legit vs not.

MarineLayer
Super Member
8 months ago

If we plan to trade Ohtani, it should be with the team that offers the best package. If it’s close between the Doyers and somebody else, then somebody else should get him. Make the Doyers way overpay if that’s what they want to do. Since they think they’re the front runners in the off season, they probably won’t offer much of a package.

FungoAle
Super Member
8 months ago
Reply to  MarineLayer

Angels are not likely to get much as a rental. Maybe 2-3 top 100 prospects at best but wont include teams top prospects. Maybe 3rd to 5th ranked types..

HatcherIsMyHomeBoy
Trusted Member
8 months ago

Only downside of the predictable Rengifo 2-4 last night was the fact that Phil would double down instead of taking the performance as the fools gold that it was. Most likely Back to 0-5 today and at the top of the lineup that ls going to hurt .

Kiyotchan
Super Member
8 months ago

As you predicted, our unpredictable and little or no short memory hee-fo is leading off. The sad truth is that we never had a good lead off hitter on this squad. It would have been ideal if we had someone who would be patient, not swing outside the zone, and battle off tough pitches after 2 strike count.

Simba
Trusted Member
8 months ago
Reply to  Kiyotchan

If Rendon comes back and they play him, I think I’d give him a try at lead off. He doesn’t deserve to be in the middle, sees a lot of pitches, and walks a fair amount.

HatcherIsMyHomeBoy
Trusted Member
8 months ago
Reply to  Simba

Agreed. I was saying this earlier as well.. when he plays which is now probably not for the rest of the season again. His only valuable skill set left is he is patient at the plate and works the counts. Best option for lead off we have then Neto. But Phil wouldn’t / won’t do it either way. He absurdly still thinks Rendon is a “middle of the order “ bat

Last edited 8 months ago by HatcherIsMyHomeBoy
BannedInLA
Super Member
8 months ago
Reply to  Simba

I’m totally in the minority here, but I’d slot Trout in the leadoff slot.

Despite being “past his prime’ he’s still a .360 OBP guy with power that my, see pitches and run the bases well – even if they don’t send him on steals.

Trout
Ohtani
Moniak
Ward

These are my top 4 if healthy.

HatcherIsMyHomeBoy
Trusted Member
8 months ago
Reply to  BannedInLA

Not a bad idea either but Phil would never do it

FungoAle
Super Member
8 months ago
Reply to  BannedInLA

I remember the years Mike was lead off, young and electric. Good choice.

Claret
Trusted Member
8 months ago
Reply to  BannedInLA

It’s been ages since Trout batted leadoff – it was mostly during his rookie season – but I don’t think there has ever been a better leadoff hitter in MLB history. Henderson and Raines never had that kind of power.

Claret
Trusted Member
8 months ago

And his two hits were flares. Sure, a hit is a hit, but it’s not as if Rengifo is locked in and crushing it. And he’s still a train-wreck in the field. When he makes a play he’s treated like the slowest kid in the class. We’re all thrilled he didn’t boot the grounder toward the stands or throw it toward the press box. He makes routine plays look difficult.

HatcherIsMyHomeBoy
Trusted Member
8 months ago
Reply to  Claret

Lol yup. I just don’t get at least trying to see if Plumber can catch lighting in a bottle for a few weeks. We know what Gifo and Escobar are already. Plumber story is untold

DowningDude
Legend
8 months ago

FREE THE PLUMBER!

BannedInLA
Super Member
8 months ago
Reply to  DowningDude

We agree on this point. I attempted to will it to existence today. Alas, I failed miserably.

FungoAle
Super Member
8 months ago
Reply to  DowningDude

Nah, time to cut bait. Would rather see Fletcher up.

Cowboy26
Legend
8 months ago
Reply to  FungoAle

Sure if was trying to tank.

FungoAle
Super Member
8 months ago
Reply to  Cowboy26

Plumber and Fletcher suck, but Fletcher can actually play defense and runs bases better

Last edited 8 months ago by FungoAle
Cowboy26
Legend
8 months ago
Reply to  FungoAle

Not anymore. Obviously you haven’t watched him play lately. The dude is painful to watch.

BannedInLA
Super Member
8 months ago

I concur, but my assumption is that Phil is taking the orthodox approach that 90% of managers would in this late stage – sink or swim with the veterans…

BannedInLA
Super Member
8 months ago
Reply to  Claret

The soft bigotry of low expectations.

HatcherIsMyHomeBoy
Trusted Member
8 months ago
Reply to  BannedInLA

Just so the record shows. Plumber might end up sucking just as bad if. not worst than Gifo / Escobar.. That’s a very real possibility that we should all acknowledge. This is the classic case of wanting the young backup QB to take over for the struggling perpetually underperforming vet.

The back up QB might end up sucking just as bad but as fans we want to see it dammit! 😂. the floor is so low there is literally nothing to lose.

BannedInLA
Super Member
8 months ago

Agreed, but we basically know what we have with Rengifo at this stage.

I’m actually the less critical of Rengifo than most
around here and I think he’s a fringe roster player, but .210 is .210 in the end.

Simba
Trusted Member
8 months ago
Reply to  Claret

I’d actually say Rengifo’s two hits were legit – opposite field liners that dropped in. A bit soft, but definitely not flares. Bottom line he set the stage for Shohei twice, who was 0-fer.

Can’t disagree on the defensive comments though. Even when he made the play he made me wince.

Last edited 8 months ago by Simba
Kiyotchan
Super Member
8 months ago

Today’s Lineup:

Rengifo 2B
Ohtani DH
Moniak CF
Ward LF
Moose 3B
Thaiss C
Escobar 1B
Cabbage RF
Squid SS

Must be Renfroe’s scheduled day off.

Go Halo’s! Get that series win today.

Kiyotchan
Super Member
8 months ago
Reply to  Kiyotchan

I hate Sammy’s skewed view (of the lineup shot among other things). So I decided not to copy and paste his twitter picture of the line up. Hope this helps.

Last edited 8 months ago by Kiyotchan
Twebur
Legend
8 months ago
Reply to  Kiyotchan

Must win today….or it’s into the lake of fire.

https://www.youtube.com/live/m82bI1QCRdA?feature=share

DowningDude
Legend
8 months ago
Reply to  Kiyotchan

Get well soon, Neto

Cowboy26
Legend
8 months ago
Reply to  DowningDude

Signed Coach HassleMoran.

I feel really bad about jamming up your back when I tried to get you killed at home plate last Monday

BannedInLA
Super Member
8 months ago
Reply to  Cowboy26

Ah shit, that’s where is occurred didn’t it?

BannedInLA
Super Member
8 months ago
Reply to  BannedInLA

Can we say shit around here? Oopps, I said Shit
again.

Fansince1971
Legend
8 months ago

https://theathletic.com/4695610/2023/07/17/shohei-ohtani-trade-packages-angels/?amp=1

This is an interesting article. I generally think Bowden is a good sports writer.

Simba
Trusted Member
8 months ago

Saw the game in person. Great seats up close behind home plate.
Wish I had those 3 hours back.
Most anemic performance I’ve seen.
Sad donkey here.
That one cured me of my optimism.

Cowboy26
Legend
8 months ago
Reply to  Simba

I was there too. Not sure I would agree on the most anemic performance, as Ive seen much worse out of this ball club in the past. But The alcohol certainly helped yesterday.

Last edited 8 months ago by Cowboy26
Simba
Trusted Member
8 months ago
Reply to  Cowboy26

Their bases loaded “rally” in the ninth was courtesy of 3 walks/HBP. The lack of hitting has been masked by home runs following opposing teams walks/miscues. No home runs means no runs for a team that can barely put a ball in play.

HatcherIsMyHomeBoy
Trusted Member
8 months ago
Reply to  Simba

Straight up .. they are so bad situationally when they aren’t hitting tanks it’s so hard for them to score. They are still top 5 in runs per game despite being awful sub 20 in high leverage and RISP. If they could even be decent there we’d have a top 3 offense. It’s been sickening to watch the Doyers execute the last few days before our games start. Nearly flawlessly

Last edited 8 months ago by HatcherIsMyHomeBoy
BannedInLA
Super Member
8 months ago
Reply to  Simba

I’d posit that MANY teams in the current era of MLB fall into this category.

It’s an HR or bust game.

Jimmuscomp
Trusted Member
8 months ago

A win today means 5-1 in the last 6. That pace would bode well over the course of a month.

Yesterdays game was awful, but if it’s simply a blip, no worries. If it’s the first of a losing streak, goodbye 2023.

BannedInLA
Super Member
8 months ago
Reply to  Jimmuscomp

This is a rational take.

BannedInLA
Super Member
8 months ago

We figure to roll out a similar lineup today as yesterday, but there’s a realistic chance it fares much better today as we’re facing a righty. Albeit their best starter.

Stefanic – 2B
Ohtani – DH
Moniak – CF
Ward – LF
Moose – 3B
Thaiss – C
Renfroe – RF
Cabbage – 1B
Squid – SS

Yes, I’m inserting the Plummer over Rengifo today as more importantly, I suspect that Phil will too.

The other permutation is Moose at 1B and Escobar at 3B, but I like my stated lineup above.

Big day from Ohtani, me thinks…

Last edited 8 months ago by BannedInLA
Kiyotchan
Super Member
8 months ago
Reply to  BannedInLA

Pretty close, except that Rengifo is playing, Renfroe not playing, and Plumber not playing. Probably something to do with righty lefty match up.

BannedInLA
Super Member
8 months ago
Reply to  Kiyotchan

I was stupid to think Rengifo would find the bench after a 2-4 outing.

Glad to see Cabbage is playing & Renfroe is sitting, frankly.

I am concerned that we’re over utilizing Moose, but our options are limited.

Just Win (Today) Baby.

Cowboy26
Legend
8 months ago
Reply to  BannedInLA

I hope that thud sound you hear is not the head of Cabbage falling back to earth.

With The 3 outcomes game that everyone here laments ( Although The Angels dont emphasis walks as much as they should IMO) he potentially looks like the poster child for it.

last night it was display with all the glory. Im hoping today will be different.

BannedInLA
Super Member
8 months ago
Reply to  Cowboy26

If your fears are confirmed, it would explain the reluctance of the organization to call him up sooner.

Those calling for Daniel Murphy are probably on to something…:

halofansince1978
Super Member
8 months ago

We now have four good teams to jump over.

Jerry’s Kids
MFY
Sux
Jays

And Cleveland is just 1/2 game behind us.

A tall order at best to make the third W/C.

Not giving up…but. It is gonna be tough.

Not time to trade Ohtani yet…very soon.

frosse
Member
8 months ago

April record 15-14
May record 15-13
June record 14-13
July so far: 6-9
Average team. It is what it is.

Kiyotchan
Super Member
8 months ago
Reply to  frosse

Just realized that Angels are mathematically eliminated from winning 15 games this month.

Last edited 8 months ago by Kiyotchan
DowningDude
Legend
8 months ago
Reply to  Kiyotchan

Darn

Senator_John_Blutarsky
Legend
8 months ago

One loss sends the “Pollyanna syndrome” crowd looking for a ledge. What’s even funnier is the battle cry of “the next game is must win” knowing full well that a loss in the “must win” game will be rationalized to indicate there’s still a chance.

There’s still room for you with “accept reality” team. The Lagavulin 16 is poured and waiting 🥃 . Life is very good – you really can love the Angels without the manic behaviors.

DowningDude
Legend
8 months ago

I’m on the team minority – too much one way – push back the other. Too much the other way – push back opposite.

* We won’t make the playoffs

* We won’t trade Ohtani

I’m OK with all of that – not gonna cry if anything shakes out one way or the other.

But push back against overflowing hopelessness and over-exaggerated polyanna-ness. Ride the baseline.

Kiyotchan
Super Member
8 months ago
Reply to  DowningDude

San Diego with $276M payroll and $25M tax are 48W-51L with 5.5GB WC3, 4th place in competitive NL West. San Diego FO and GM are under tremendous pressure to push for playoff contention. With Pythagorean formula, they would be 55W-44L, which would place them in WC1 in NL. I don’t think San Diego are giving up. In fact, if they win today and sweep Detroit, they are on the trend of being buyer rather than seller. They have next series against Pirates, and if they sweep them, Soto, Snell, and Hader will not be available for trade.

Angels, being in 4th place in fairly competitive AL West, have different pressure point in the Unicorn. If Angels somehow manage a win today, and at least win 2 against Detroit, we would still have Sho as Angel in Toronto.

Is this a perfect example of “waiting for the other shoe to drop”?

Last edited 8 months ago by Kiyotchan
Cowboy26
Legend
8 months ago
Reply to  DowningDude

So you’re going with the highest probability prognostications.

Seems reasonable and conservative enough.

Im going with:

  • We Trade Ohtani at the deadline and get back just a bunch journeymen filler and overrated prospects.
  • Despite the Trade we make the playoffs anyways and shock the shit out of the anti Angel/Pro Doyer industrial media complex.
DowningDude
Legend
8 months ago
Reply to  Cowboy26

Sounds cool!

Kiyotchan
Super Member
8 months ago
Reply to  Cowboy26

I got some extra pills for Delusional Hyperbole. Unfortunately, they only help for few hours.  😉 

MarineLayer
Super Member
8 months ago

Being a .500 team means you win about half your games and lose the rest. What we’re seeing is a .500 team doing what it does.

Twebur
Legend
8 months ago

I come here to see Pollyanna. I stay for her manic friend, Karen.

Very hard to take this 1 of a kind – horrible franchise seriously.

Regardless of the outcome today…see you tomorrow….…probably after another Karen loss today, riding on her sad Donkey…shitting everywhere, stinking up the place, with lots of flies.

Free rinse and repeat season after season of losing.
Free the IL, the DL, the 60 day IL. The retro active IL placement because of misdiagnosed injuries.
Free us from the bazaar shoulder dislocation, the poorly conditioned soft tissue rib cage muscle of so many, the shin bones that don’t heal. The broken wrist bones from K’ing and K’ing some more. Free us from the fractured pelvic bones, just like when old people fall down and break their hips and end up in a home.
Free Max Stassi from his captures. Please give Arte the financial strength to pay his ransom and free him. And Free Stassi from the likely Stockholm Syndrome that is likely infected his mind.

Free us from the pain and embarrassment of being an Angels fan.

BannedInLA
Super Member
8 months ago

I reject the Pollyanna pejorative.

There is nothing “Poly” about saying if this team is realistically in contention, particularly with IL reinforcements on the way (Drury, Trout & O’Hoppe) that they should go for it at the deadline with an upgrade or two.

We have the greatest player ever – in his prime – and this league seems fairly beatable. MLB playoffs are more “lightning in a bottle” than any team sport I can think of so why not the Angels?

I’ve also stated repeatedly that if they fall “out of it” prior to the deadline, they should Sell.

Last edited 8 months ago by BannedInLA
TrojanBoiler
Trusted Member
8 months ago

Dropping an egg tonight sucks.

But also, we were missing our starting C, 1B, 2B, SS, 3B and CF…

People bitching about Perry are crazy to me. He’s done a great job for the most part. The roster depth has been great. He just needs to fire the coaching staff.

Angel_in_the_Outhouse
Member
8 months ago
Reply to  TrojanBoiler

When I get frustrated about our struggles it’s good to be reminded that we are not talking about our opening day starters just failing to produce. Early on we got to see the potential of having all the players in the lineup and what could be.

But then one by one we saw a majority of them going down with injury. Until it was the B squad mostly trying to hold things together. And, when you think about it, still hovering around the .500 mark is not bad for a B squad. Still frustrating, but being decimated by injury after injury to key players is going stumble any team. Heck, even injuries to the back ups like Jo Adell.

Yes, we all went into this season with high hopes looking at the starters and the back ups brought in. But I also remember the caveat everyone tempered their hopes with… “if we can stay healthy”.

Well, we couldn’t stay healthy. But I do still hold out hope seeing not only some of the injured players slowly coming back, but also getting to see some of the young kids who will be our future getting a chance to show what they’ve got. And ones like O’Hoppe, Neto, Moniak and Cabbage give me some optimism.

It’ll be a hard climb to get back into contention, but not impossible. If we were 10 games under .500 then, yeah, it’s over. But around the .500 mark if we can put together a long winning streak and get a lot of help from those above us falling into a slump, then who knows.

Dinkycreek
Member
8 months ago

It is very obvious looking at the very low RISP average that this team is not taught, or thought even given to, situational hitting. Only 17 hits in the last 3 games. Urshela could do it but everyone else wants to jack it out. This is on the MANAGER!

Fansince1971
Legend
8 months ago

It was the best of times
It was the worst of times

Fansince1971
Legend
8 months ago
Reply to  Fansince1971

…..it was the age of wisdom, it was the age of foolishness, it was the epoch of belief, it was the epoch of incredulity, it was the season of light, it was the season of darkness, it was the spring of hope, it was the winter of despair.

Pretty much explains every Angel season

CAoldskoll
Trusted Member
8 months ago

Was at game last night when Ohtani pitched lousy. Today, another bad batting performance vs the Pirates?? Hope he is not tanking on purpose hoping to get a trade. That would be insulting to fans

Jayman28
Trusted Member
8 months ago
Reply to  CAoldskoll

Can’t believe they lost to the Pirates lol, so much for hope and faith

laughing-spongebob.gif
Cowboy26
Legend
8 months ago
Reply to  Jayman28

You know how much I hate losing to the pirates.

BannedInLA
Super Member
8 months ago
Reply to  CAoldskoll

No offense, but that is an asinine take.

Tanking will only hurt his chances of being traded and by every account, utterance and measure, he would never intentionally tank as a matter of being a competitor, not to mention “honor”.

Ocham’s Razor dude,
it’s a matter of fatigue during the dog days of Summer for his poor pitching performances.

Kiyotchan
Super Member
8 months ago
Reply to  BannedInLA

There were at least 4 Japanese articles which described Sho’s frustration after the second strike out and banging his helmet twice on the bat’s rack during yesterdays game. Apparently Nevin was asked about that ‘unusual’ behavior at postgame, and Nevin answered Sho does get frustrated as any other human being.

Simba
Trusted Member
8 months ago
Reply to  Kiyotchan

Sho actually audibly yelled at the ump. I’ve seen plenty of dismayed looks at the umps but never noticed a verbal expression of disgust before.

Last edited 8 months ago by Simba
WallyChuckChili
Legend
8 months ago

Angels consecutive homerun game record ends…

HatcherIsMyHomeBoy
Trusted Member
8 months ago

Phil confirms what we thought .. they wanted cabbage hacking 2-0.. he says he would have given him a 3-0 green light too lol

Pineapple12
Super Member
8 months ago

lol

Eric_in_Portland
Legend
8 months ago

counting on a homerun or a bases clearing double, with no faith in Escobar and/or Stefanic (who would have pinch hit).

I haven’t worked out the odds but I suspect that a walk to Cabbage, to make the score 3-1, would have been better…I mean the odds would have been better with Escobar up in a 3-1 game, with us needing a single (1 in 4?) while the odds of a Cabbage HR, heck an Ohtani HR, would be something like 1 in 15 or 1 in 20.

WallyChuckChili
Legend
8 months ago

Ohtani win the Hat Trick.
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