Angels Day Two Draft Thread

Rounds 3-10 will take place today. Check in for updates.

I’m at work so please feel free to update the thread yourselves as well.

So far, the Angels added Pac 12 player of the year Alberto Rios from Stanford in the third round. He’s another guy with a strong approach at the plate who could move quickly through the system.

Here he is ripping a double off Colorado’s first round pick.

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MarineLayer
Super Member
4 months ago

The worst thing about this draft was wasting the second pick signing Tyler Anderson. Typical Angels blunder.

Fansince1971
Legend
4 months ago

Interesting article. Whisper numbers of Ohtani getting $1 Billion in his contract. And lots of other things we have been discussing including attendance pre- and post- Ohtani (spoiler- no real change) and whether Ohtani will pay for himself (per an executive- no way).

https://www.sportico.com/leagues/baseball/2023/shohei-ohtani-free-agent-contract-unlimited-potential-1234729982/amp/

Cowboy26
Legend
4 months ago
Reply to  Fansince1971

Let the delusions of extreme exaggeration begin

ihearhowie3.0
Super Member
4 months ago
Reply to  Fansince1971

Really setting the table for shock when he takes a perceived discount to be a Dodger.

Nothing about Ohtani’s comments and past decision making suggests hes just going to sit there and sell himself to the highest bidder regardless of team/org quality.

Fansince1971
Legend
4 months ago
Reply to  ihearhowie3.0

If you are right – and I’m not sure you are with this decision other than likely wanting to stay on the west coast – then any team who really wants him would be wise to give up a bunch of good prospects to get him as a rental and have him get comfortable there and play in the playoffs in his uniform. Those could be the kinds of intangibles that make a difference in his ultimate decision.

smithy610
Super Member
4 months ago
Reply to  Fansince1971

I read Fletcher’s book on Ohtani. Was Ohtani’s only reason not to sign with the Dodgers back in 2018 was because there was no DH option yet in the NL? The book didn’t seem to be clear about it.

Although Kershaw was quoted as saying the meeting with Ohtani for the Dodgers’ pitch was a “waste of time.”

Turk's Teeth
Editor
Super Member
4 months ago

Been a bit of a negative nelly this year, but calling it as I see it. This is one of the least inspiring draft classes I’ve seen from the team since the Will Wilson and Matt Thaiss drafts, perhaps rivaling the 2012-2014 stretch.

Ironically, the Angels will probably have two of the first prospects to reach the MLB in Schanuel and Minacci, and we’ll hear, repeatedly in fan forums and on Twitter/Threads, that the pundits are shit, and the Angels clearly have a much better farm than anyone realizes – look at how many reinforcements are coming up!

But it’s not a “farm” if you’re largely bypassing it. The Angels aren’t growing anything to speak of – they are ordering ready-to-go meals, and quickly warming them up / taste-testing them to serve to a hungry MLB club always just shy of contention.

I think there’s another hidden cost in this approach, in that part of farm development is getting players used to long seasons, travel grinds, and creating physical conditioning and daily preparatory routines to avoid injury across punishing MLB calendars. I don’t think the parallel injuries to rookies and aging veterans alike are all coincidental. Young inexperienced players are being thrown into combat, are going as aggressively as they can, and there’s a tax to that. We’ve seen injuries across the board to most of the recent key draftees from the past two years – Bachman, Bush, Joyce, O’Hoppe, Neto – and inconsistency from others rushed too quickly (Silseth, Mederos).

There’s a time-tested reason why most other teams don’t do it this way. We’ll see over the next year or two if the pattern continues to repeat itself.

Kiyotchan
Super Member
4 months ago
Reply to  Turk's Teeth

As Shohei apologist, I have to list the followings.

2021: Sho played in 155 games. Started 23 games as starting pitcher.
2022: Sho played in 157 games. Started 28 games as starting pitcher.
2023: Sho played in 89 games out of 91. Started 17 games as starting pitcher.

How does he do this without major injury? Is he just made different, or sheer luck? Just maybe, Angels coaches should observe how he conditions himself and what diet he consumes.

Last edited 4 months ago by Kiyotchan
Kiyotchan
Super Member
4 months ago
Reply to  Kiyotchan

I am so f’cking grateful for Kuriyama to convince Sho to remain in Japan and explore and develop as 2 way player. He did not have to subject himself to “unintended” abuse of minor league grinds. No knowledge of Dodgers’ minor league system, but it could not have been pleasant.

Last edited 4 months ago by Kiyotchan
Turk's Teeth
Editor
Super Member
4 months ago
Reply to  Kiyotchan

Well, he’s also had 11+ years of pro baseball seasons to develop such a routine. He had TJ along the way, and only played in >90 games in Japan once, in 2016.

So Sho has had some time to warm up to this. 🙂

Still a unicorn, though.

Kiyotchan
Super Member
4 months ago
Reply to  Turk's Teeth

I also remember his undergoing knee surgery because he had ‘split patella’ in 2019.

Going through his NPD days, he had several calf and ankle injuries, which led to his not playing many games. He was ‘forced’ by Kuriyama not to play game before and after he pitched. Of course, Kuriyama was concerned about overusing and hurting Japanese baseball’s treasure. Remember that Ausmus used to do that until Maddon freed Shohei from that restriction.

He is truly one of a kind. I, as many Shohei fanatics, sincerely hope he stay healthy for many seasons.

Senator_John_Blutarsky
Legend
4 months ago
Reply to  Kiyotchan

I fear that his workload will exact a toll that will come due during his early 30’s.

tanana40
Super Member
4 months ago

That is what I am thinking also. He is overworked in my view.

Kiyotchan
Super Member
4 months ago
Reply to  tanana40

The problem is that we have no precedent to compare with. So, he will probably continue to perform two way until he starts failing in one respect significantly. No disrespect to Babe Ruth, but he did not try to do what Sho has been doing. In fact, I read that he was glad that he was being converted to bat only once he was traded to the Yankees.

My best surmise is that he will give up starting pitcher first in few years and consider possible conversion to short inning reliever. If he gives up pitching all together, I can see him becoming OF or 1B.

smithy610
Super Member
4 months ago

This is what I think will happen too – assuming he’s blessed with good health, he’ll do this two-way thing SUCCESSFULLY for 3-4 more years. Then he’ll concentrate on one-way – I think as a hitter, because who can resist that power? So at 50M a year, you’ll be paying a DH for a good 5-6 years of that contract, maybe also as a occasional bullpen piece.

ihearhowie3.0
Super Member
4 months ago
Reply to  Turk's Teeth

I think the ready-to-go meal analogy is extremely sharp and accurate. Our success stories like Neto and Detmers and Joyce don’t really involve any successful involvement from the Angels player development apparatus.

Fansince1971
Legend
4 months ago
Reply to  ihearhowie3.0

I think it could be basically a concession that College level coaches are better at developing players than the minor league coaches we have in place. Does not make me very happy.

Jayman28
Trusted Member
4 months ago
Reply to  ihearhowie3.0

I don’t think Joyce is a success story yet, Joyce’s arm became a blown gasket after like the fourth game

Fansince1971
Legend
4 months ago
Reply to  Turk's Teeth

So I’m guessing you are not grading the Angels ‘23 draft an “A” 😂

steelgolf
Super Member
4 months ago
Reply to  Fansince1971

Going to be interesting to see how everyone grades this year’s draft.

Cowboy26
Legend
4 months ago
Reply to  steelgolf

Ask me in 2 years.

steelgolf
Super Member
4 months ago
Reply to  Cowboy26

I like to see the initial grade and reasoning, and then revisit in 2 to 3 years and do the same grade with reasoning.

HalosFanForLife
Trusted Member
4 months ago
Reply to  Turk's Teeth

The whole game is going through a dramatic change and we’re just scraping the surface. Just heard of a college losing out on a kid they thought they had locked up to a 7 figure NIL deal. Yes. $1 million plus. (This from a big insider who said the numbers are about to start getting crazy.) The big alumni are going to determine the college’s power rankings. It’s play money to some of these guys and they will not like getting beat by their rivals.

MH252525
Trusted Member
4 months ago

Honestly nothing changes until Arte leaves. He’s too entrenched in having control. His college friends defend his ability to play billionaire fantasy baseball. People criticize the organization and instead of seeing that pretty much everyone says the same things, they don’t care to change their ways.

Arte watches October baseball and signs the guys that get hot for a few weeks. He put a f’ing intern in charge of his team because he thought he could setup a team differently than literally every other successful team conducts business.

I haven’t been to an Angels game since Opening Day of last season and even then that was only because a group of my friends were.

Because everyone knows Arte is playing billionaire fantasy baseball he has to hire guys that aren’t anywhere close to the best people available. Who worth their salt would want to come work for a guy that does your job in a horrible fashion and then you get a lot of the blame for his stupid ass decisions.

Feel free to sell yesterday Arte.

ihearhowie3.0
Super Member
4 months ago
Reply to  MH252525

I think you’ll hear he’s selling again shortly after Ohtani bounces. It’s just a question if he feels like the franchise deserves some kind of prospect value before he does that or if his bizarre narrative of not being the guy who traded Shohei is more important to him.

If Shohei leaves, its because the team sucked for several years. Its not like theres a version of this that is not embarrassing.

Last edited 4 months ago by ihearhowie3.0
smithy610
Super Member
4 months ago
Reply to  ihearhowie3.0

Where’s the good business sense in that? Ohtani is what drives (or drove) the price of the team. Without him, good luck getting 2.5B bids.

I don’t care too much to get into Arte’s history, but man, you wonder how this kind of person, with how he has ran this team and how he pulled out the deal, had a great business acumen in the past that caused him to back into his billions.

Cowboy26
Legend
4 months ago
Reply to  ihearhowie3.0

Why would he sell the team after Ohtani leaves? It more value before the season started and Arte ain’t losing money from what he was offered in January

ihearhowie3.0
Super Member
4 months ago
Reply to  Cowboy26

Why attempt to sell in the first place? Because he’s an emotional loser who is going to rage quit when he realizes fans aren’t going to forgive him for fumbling an Ohtani/Trout era.

Fansince1971
Legend
4 months ago
Reply to  Cowboy26

I am not sure that Ohtani affects the value of the franchise that much. The television and MLB.com deals are what drive the increased value of franchises. Angels have the OC market – somebody is going to offer $3B for that with or without Ohtani. The real question to me is that if Arte signs Shohei and adds say $550 million in payroll obligations, does that increase or decrease the value of the business. Typically payment obligations are considered debt and lower the sales price because the new owners become obligated to pay the debt.

Kiyotchan
Super Member
4 months ago
Reply to  Fansince1971

I am not arguing with your point, sir, but just to provide a counter point, but Ichiro was well known to increase the number of visitors to Seattle from Japan.
https://mynorthwest.com/34263/seattle-likely-to-lose-millions-as-ichiro-effect-moves-to-ny/
I don’t know how that would affect the value of Angels, but I am certain there is someone much economically more intelligent than I, who can come up with more accurate number.

Jayman28
Trusted Member
4 months ago
Reply to  Kiyotchan

Sounds like Arte is taking note from their ownership. The recipe of: we don’t need to make the playoffs ever and suck every season, but we will put one player out there to butts in the seats like it’s a Twitch hot tub streamer live throwing money just watching them.

Kiyotchan
Super Member
4 months ago
Reply to  Jayman28

Seattle, the only MLB team not to reach WS, has been historically unfortunate. Of course, the trio of Ken Griffey Jr, Alex Rodriguez and Randy Johnson prevented Mariners of being shipped out of Pacific Northwest and they have former US senator Slade Gorton and Nintendo then chairman Hiroshi Yamauchi to thank.
https://www.tampabay.com/archive/1991/10/04/mariners-move-to-st-petersburg-is-a-done-deal-some-observers-say/

I still believe Mariners would have reached WS if it weren’t for the horrific attack of 9/11 by Bin Ladin. After that, Pat Gillick and their ownership not spending to add another bat to terrific trio of HOF Edgar Martinez, soon to be HOF (probably unanimously) Ichiro, and John Olerud is the main reason why they did not reach another playoff in IMHO. So, I partially agree with your point.

Even after Ichiro agreed to be shipped off to MFYankees, it took them additional 10 years to reach the playoffs. So, trading Ichiro did not net them anything. (I know, Ichiro was worthless when he was traded in 2012 at age 39.)

Last edited 4 months ago by Kiyotchan
Fansince1971
Legend
4 months ago
Reply to  Kiyotchan

Understood but there is a point on the graph where the cost of Ohtani exceeds what revenue he is generating. What that number is I’m not sure. But the bean counters will know.

If Arte were to offer Ohtani say $70 million per season and he agreed to stay, I suspect that deal would lower the value of the franchise because the liability side would outweigh the asset side. That’s just an example since I don’t know where those lines intersect.

Cowboy26
Legend
4 months ago
Reply to  Fansince1971

Yeah but that point wont be in the beginning year of Ohtani’s record deal.

Cowboy26
Legend
4 months ago
Reply to  Fansince1971

Do you go to the games? Do you see the influx of Japanese fans dressed in Ohtani garb that are coming to watch Ohtani play that wont be here next year or the year after?

The TV deal is concerning with Sinclair’s bankruptcies while the stadium situation is in limbo until everyone wastes millions with endless investigations. $550 million would be returned in spades to any buyer and would be the only real revenue stream that you could count on with this team for years to come.

Last edited 4 months ago by Cowboy26
Fansince1971
Legend
4 months ago
Reply to  Cowboy26

There were fans before Ohtani and there will be after Ohtani.

I agree that Ohtani is an asset but that worth is quantifiable. Is it $30 million a year in revenue? $40 million? $50 million? A buyer’s team will quantify it and factor that in to any offer as an asset. It will be factored in along with other assets like merchandise, concessions, tv revenue etc.

The buyer’s team will obviously also factor in liabilities like expenses to operate a club such as payroll, coaches, stadium upkeep etc. The cost of Ohtani is a liability. If he is paid say $60 million a year that’s a $60 million liability.

So there is a point where the cost of Ohtani is greater than what he brings in. At that point he would be a liability. For example if he were paid $100m per year, he would likely cost significantly more (liability) than he generates (asset).

So there is a point where a huge Ohtani deal would be enough of a liability that it outweigh the asset side. What that number is – I don’t know. But it is incorrect to view Ohtani as a limitless asset.

Last edited 4 months ago by Fansince1971
Cowboy26
Legend
4 months ago
Reply to  Fansince1971

I didnt say he was limit less but What I am saying is that he such a unicorn the revenue he generates will far out weigh the negatives from the end years of a large extension.

Dont get me wrong I’m not advocating for the signing. But a buyer acquiring this team next year with Ohtani locked up long term has to be considering this to be an asset that positively affects the team’s value

Fansince1971
Legend
4 months ago
Reply to  Cowboy26

Agreed that Ohtani is both an asset and a liability. At $30m I suspect the metrics very much tip towards asset. I just don’t know where the balance point is where the asset side balances with the liability side. But there is a number and any sophisticated buyer is going to know it or at the very least approximate it.

Jayman28
Trusted Member
4 months ago
Reply to  Fansince1971

This, and Arte is going to have to sell the team without Shohei on the team. But there is people that think that Arte is going to say to Shohei: “hey bro, I need you to like sign an extension here so I can get a higher asking price since you drive up the value dude, so like please sign a contract extension here man”.

Cowboy26
Legend
4 months ago
Reply to  Jayman28

Why does Arte need to sell the team. his cost basis is essentially zero at this point.

JJ is right he aint letting this franchise go until he’s horizontal. And hell probably haunt all of us after that too. along with everyone else from the Native American burial ground the Big A was built on.

Last edited 4 months ago by Cowboy26
Jayman28
Trusted Member
4 months ago
Reply to  Fansince1971

When I went to the games, I hardly saw them, maybe like 10 on average.

Fansince1971
Legend
4 months ago
Reply to  Cowboy26

My presumption is that if someone offered Arte $3.5B he would sell and not look back. I suspect he felt that was more likely if the team made a playoff run and that is why he authorized the additional payroll. I think he and his people equated playoffs with justifying a higher sales price.

With this team’s probable failure to reach the playoffs and Ohtani likely leaving, I would not be surprised if he seriously explores selling during this offseason.

MarineLayer
Super Member
4 months ago
Reply to  ihearhowie3.0

I wish he’d just take his three billion and go away.

ihearhowie3.0
Super Member
4 months ago
Reply to  Jeff Joiner

I don’t think he’s in it for the long haul. Ohtani leaving is going to be a historic badge of dishonor for the franchise and Moreno specifically. Whether he’s planning on selling soon or not, the negativity is going to be a lot more visceral and permanent.

Jayman28
Trusted Member
4 months ago
Reply to  ihearhowie3.0

Arte is never going to ever repair his legacy of being a dimbulb owner. They think resigning Sho will make him like this Top G, but in reality, he is going to continue to make a bunch of bad decisions.

DMAGZ13
Trusted Member
4 months ago

If you look it up, Joe Redfield was in the portal and committed to play for Georgia. In the article it says he wants to be a Dawg but will monitor the draft, he expected to go rounds 7-10. If they want this guy they’ll have to pay him .

Last edited 4 months ago by DMAGZ13
Angelz4ever
Super Member
4 months ago

So tired of the “…trade Ohtani before you lose him for nothing” drivel stories. if the Halos make a qualifying offer, and Ohtani rejects it and signs with a contending team, we get their 1st round pick or a supplemental (At end of 1st round) pick-That ain’t nothing!

Of course, not as good as having Ohtani for another 7 or 8 years.

Turk's Teeth
Editor
Super Member
4 months ago
Reply to  Jeff Joiner

We actually only get a CB pick between the second and third rounds, because the Angels are one of the ~10 teams which do “not receive revenue sharing and did not exceed the luxury-tax salary threshold the previous season”.

So a pick roughly in the neighborhood of #65-75 each year.

Eric_in_Portland
Legend
4 months ago
Reply to  Turk's Teeth

does that mean if a team does exceed the luxury tax then they get a better pick?

Turk's Teeth
Editor
Super Member
4 months ago

Nope, those teams (there were 6 last year), get a compensatory pick after the fourth round.

Turk's Teeth
Editor
Super Member
4 months ago
Reply to  Angelz4ever

Does it adjust your opinion at all to learn they get a pick after the second round, not the first?

Roughly where they’ve selected names like Nonie Williams, Jahmai Jones and David Calabrese in recent years?

They do not get a first rounder or first round supplemental pick.

Cowboy26
Legend
4 months ago
Reply to  Turk's Teeth

Arte must be pining for revenue sharing next year

Fansince1971
Legend
4 months ago
Reply to  Angelz4ever

Hey Angelz4ever – as stated above – you are incorrect in your basic premise. Angels would not get a 1st round pick – it used to work that way but was changed to a second round pick. It’s actually worse than a 2nd round pick because it’s between the 2nd and 3rd rounds.

Last edited 4 months ago by Fansince1971
Cowboy26
Legend
4 months ago
Reply to  Fansince1971

So what’s a second round pick again ?

Fansince1971
Legend
4 months ago
Reply to  Cowboy26

Yep – part of the reason I HATED the Anderson signing beyond the obvious payment of a guy for a single good season.

Kiyotchan
Super Member
4 months ago
Reply to  Fansince1971

I don’t mean to add to your blood pressure, but the projected starter for the third game against upcoming Asstros series is Tyler Anderson.

ihearhowie3.0
Super Member
4 months ago
Reply to  Angelz4ever

As others have pointed out – there is real value to getting established prospects that functional organizations have developed. Asking us to develop anything at this point is a real gamble.

FungoAle
Super Member
4 months ago
Reply to  Angelz4ever

No kidding, seriously, “drivel” nailed it. We lost with him, we can lose without him.

Turk's Teeth
Editor
Super Member
4 months ago

Chase Gockel is quite a name. I think they’re just making these guys up with AI at this point.

grichmanpoorman
Trusted Member
4 months ago

OVERSLOT 101
Here is my imperfect understanding of how this particular draft phenomenon goes down… and why were able to draft a kid projected as a 4th-round talent in the 8th round.

> Barrett Kent is a promising HS pitcher from Texas. Good but not TOO good. Inconsistent velo on his fastball. Projected as a fourth round talent (126th overall according to MLB).
> Projected slot for 126th pick: $500+K
> Kent tells teams he thinks he’s worth more than that, and will go to Arkansas instead of signing if a given team won’t pony up more.
> Most teams will not pony up more, but some (hint: Angels) might.
> Either with his knowledge or without (with, hopefully), Perry and co. start scheming to draft him later, after the fourth round, and steer him away from Arkansas with a bonus exceeding his $500K slot.
> Since team is bound by a cap bonus, they purposefully draft inferior (or, at least, less valued) talents earlier in the draft, expecting to sign them for less money than their slots, creating a bonus surplus.
> They draft Kent, hopefully with pre-draft deal, for an amount that will probably exceed his expected slot by a fair margin.

Thinking he’ll take no less than $800K. Probably a mil, right?

Sorry if that was pedantic. Just need to get it out of me.

Turk's Teeth
Editor
Super Member
4 months ago

When they reallocated for Caden Dana and Mason Albright, it was $1.5M and $1.25M respectively. Kent is a similar risk/reward pick – targeted for the 3/4 round like Dana and Albright. Similar money they gave to Kochanowicz in the third round in 2019 ($1.25M).

Probably a 4-6 yr development path for all these kids – Angels haven’t really hit on a prep pitcher since Tyler Skaggs (and he was developed in Arizona’s system, and traded back near maturity).

grichmanpoorman
Trusted Member
4 months ago
Reply to  Turk's Teeth

They haven’t drafted that many, either. I don’t think you can draw any conclusions with such a limited specimen pool. They seem to be doing a good job with Dana and Albright (who’s been pitching much better lately).

Turk's Teeth
Editor
Super Member
4 months ago

They really haven’t had the draft pool monies or early round picks to draft many prep pitchers, but they’ve drafted a fair number:

Hunter Green, Joe Gatto, Chris Rodriguez, John Swanda, Jerryell Rivera, William Holmes, Connor Von Scoyoc, Erik Rivera, in addition to Kochanowicz, Albright and Dana.

All had substantial bonuses, drafted in the past decade or so. Cam Bedrosian is really the only homegrown prepster that made a dent that I can recall.

Fansince1971
Legend
4 months ago

The problem of being a middle of the road team is most evident on draft day. When you are picking 11th-14th you have to get pretty lucky to find an impact player. It can happen of course but takes a bit of luck.

If you really suck you get the opportunity of drafting the best young players in the country who can have a true impact.

Cowboy26
Legend
4 months ago
Reply to  Fansince1971

Huh? What’s the difference your ranking makes when you get to the middle rounds? The slotted bonus is inconsequential at that point . It’s all about the 5% overage and the under slot kitty

grichmanpoorman
Trusted Member
4 months ago

Here’s the potential overslot signing that all of us (actually, a pathetic little smattering of us, it appears) have been waiting for…

https://www.mlb.com/prospects/draft/barrett-kent-806010

Rallymanatee
Trusted Member
4 months ago

I was hoping the Angels would snag this dude just cuz I know him. That’s Cole Schoenwetter with my son (did some private lessons with him this summer). He pitched for the high school down the street from me and is my boss’s son. He went to the Reds in the 4th round. Very happy for him.
comment image

FungoAle
Super Member
4 months ago
Reply to  Rallymanatee

I was just thinking about you. I remember your posts about Cole from a couple of months ago. As I was looking at the Reds selections and noticed that he did get drafted in the 4th. Pretty good!

DowningDude
Legend
4 months ago
Reply to  Rallymanatee

German names make me chuckle sometimes.

“Hi there … I’m Mr Beautiful Weather … nice to meet you!”

Turk's Teeth
Editor
Super Member
4 months ago

First thoughts on picks 3-6:

Rios doesn’t have a position – catcher’s body, below average defender everywhere he’s been tried. Was expected to go around the 4-7 rounds. Angels will have to figure out where to put him on the field.

Redfield was tagged to go in rounds 7-10. Unranked, not in BA top 500 draft prospects. Has suggested he’ll opt out if not paid well. Talent-wise, comparable to a lot of late round redshirts.

Clark is a Day Three type, someone you take a flyer on at, say, round 14 or 17. The FB might make him a bullpen piece if you squint just right.

Minacci is the first slot-appropriate pick – college performer who is probably a quick mover to the MLB ‘pen. (High effort delivery may also point to injury risk.)

None of these picks thusfar have any eye toward long-term farm development that I see. Bench and bullpen pieces, all focused on the near-term.

Last edited 4 months ago by Turk's Teeth
grichmanpoorman
Trusted Member
4 months ago
Reply to  Turk's Teeth

They also appear to be well under $1million at this point in terms of expected pool savings… unless they have a massive, unexplained hard on for Redfield. So seems likely they have a HS overslot in mind a la Dana or Albright.

Turk's Teeth
Editor
Super Member
4 months ago

Parker Detmers, maybe?

Still, with the deepest college bat class in a decade, it’s a bizarre year to choose to forego much of that just to pick up a prep pitcher or two in round 11 and 12.

grichmanpoorman
Trusted Member
4 months ago
Reply to  Turk's Teeth

Yeah, true… but consistent with recent history. According to MLB, there are two Top 50 prospects that haven’t been drafted yet (as of the 6th round) and a few more Top 100s… https://www.mlb.com/draft/tracker/2023/all

grichmanpoorman
Trusted Member
4 months ago

Cameron Johnson, a LHP who went to the same FL school as Albright, and an OF from AZ… Chowlowski (probably butchering his name).

grichmanpoorman
Trusted Member
4 months ago

Detmers would be a fun pick… didn’t realize he was in the draft.

Turk's Teeth
Editor
Super Member
4 months ago

They tend to go back to the same wells again and again, so it would not surprise me at all.

grichmanpoorman
Trusted Member
4 months ago
Reply to  Turk's Teeth

Right! Same rationale with the FL pitcher possibly.

Kiyotchan
Super Member
4 months ago
Reply to  Jeff Joiner

Probably most famous for its tennis program, which produced/developed likes of Andre Agassi, Boris Becker, Bjorn Borg, William sisters, Jeniffer Capriati, Monica Seles.

They have hired many famous MLB former and active players as coaches, but they have been limited to few singles here and there with no home run.

Last edited 4 months ago by Kiyotchan
FungoAle
Super Member
4 months ago
Reply to  Turk's Teeth

Thanks for the insight, I was hoping to have your thoughts here. I really have no insight beyond the 1st round, have not had the time this year to walk through the various scouting reports.

Fansince1971
Legend
4 months ago
Reply to  Turk's Teeth

Thus far I would say this draft has been underwhelming. From my vantage it looks like players who might (emphasis on might) rapidly get to the big club and cheaply fill holes.

Is that freeing up money for Shohei?

Or, is he lowering the payroll so the sale value goes up?

Interesting stuff.

Turk's Teeth
Editor
Super Member
4 months ago
Reply to  Fansince1971

Draft pool money is a fixed allotment – there’s no savings to be had here for future free agent activity. You basically play the chips you’ve been given – if you’re saving, it’s because you plan to spend big on a couple players in your draft class.

I think Perry just fucked up with his second round forfeiture, reached for a quick-to-the-show first baseman, and is saving for a lottery ticket or two in the 11th and 12th rounds.

Fansince1971
Legend
4 months ago
Reply to  Turk's Teeth

Great info. Thank you!

Cowboy26
Legend
4 months ago
Reply to  Fansince1971

Except if you don’t spend it then you don’t spend it

tanana40
Super Member
4 months ago
Reply to  Turk's Teeth

You mean “Clark” is a Day Three type, right? Not Chalk?

Turk's Teeth
Editor
Super Member
4 months ago
Reply to  tanana40

Clark – yes. Will edit.

Angelstan
Trusted Member
4 months ago
Reply to  Turk's Teeth

Two roster spots are likely coming available. DH and 1B. Angels have Trout, Ward, Moniak, Adell, and a host of other minor leaguers as OFs. They have plenty of catchers also. Neto is the SS and they have Soto and others. MIF is pretty stacked. So drafting hitters and pitchers makes sense, especially at 1B As noted before, they look to get cheaper players per round and build depth by signing more guys. I’m unsure whether it works but it’s what they do.

Turk's Teeth
Editor
Super Member
4 months ago
Reply to  Angelstan

This is just my opinion, but I think it’s fairly well-supported, based on the Angels not winning a playoff game in 14 years:

  • It doesn’t work, and it’s not how you build a farm.
  • The Angels increasingly draft from need, it gives fans a quick hit of dopamine in the first few months when a handful of recent draftees matriculate, but the thinness of the system is exposed again by the All Star Break.
  • The analysts that ritually rate the Angels farm in the bottom five, or bottom third of the MLB are not wrong.

Compare the Angels system to the Reds, Rangers, Orioles, D-Backs, Cardinals, Rays and you can see how recent farm-driven organizations renew. And despite often picking toward the back of the pack, Dodgers, Braves, Astros continually find gems through smart scouting and development.

This year’s draft thusfar reminds me of this year, and this year. Only without the second round prep acquisition in each year.

Last edited 4 months ago by Turk's Teeth
MH252525
Trusted Member
4 months ago
Reply to  Turk's Teeth

I’m not a scout by any means at all but I remember being downright dismayed when the Angels signed Maitain and I saw him in Rookie Ball. I said right then and there even here that he would never hit even in AA. He didn’t look athletic at all. He wasn’t in to the game. He looked distracted the entire time. Sure enough.

This year I went to their High A squad and not a single guy stood out to me. The team was absolutely pathetic.

Arte treated his scouts horribly, I think the best ones left. They certainly don’t develop the players they draft well. I’d just trade Ohtani for guys that have developed without having heard a word of whatever nonsense the Angels are preaching.

Turk's Teeth
Editor
Super Member
4 months ago
Reply to  MH252525

The High-A team has been an excruciating watch since minor league realignment. It’s really starved for talent.

Kiyotchan
Super Member
4 months ago
Reply to  Turk's Teeth

Is that just Angels issue, or is it MLB wide problem? If it is the latter, even with decreasing number of MiLB teams, this is pointing toward general reduction in baseball talents world wide. I am aware that the similar phenomenon is occurring in Japan, where there is a sharp drop in birth rate over 20+ years and therefore less boys playing baseball. And MLB is talking about expanding to 32 teams. Manfraud is out of mind! Well, he already is, nobody is arguing that.

Last edited 4 months ago by Kiyotchan
MH252525
Trusted Member
4 months ago
Reply to  Kiyotchan

I can’t believe Manfred thought it best to go announce the draft picks. Surely he has to know pretty much everyone associated with baseball hates him and it was nice to have former players with each team call out their picks on day 1. Such a bad look for MLB to have the draft contain booing every couple of minutes.

Turk's Teeth
Editor
Super Member
4 months ago
Reply to  Kiyotchan

It’s not systemwide that I can see. The Angels have drafted largely from the college ranks in the past few years, and have not injected the A-ball clubs with much high ceiling youth talent. They shuttle most of their most promising draftees aggressively to AA.

Fansince1971
Legend
4 months ago
Reply to  Turk's Teeth

100% spot on. I wish sometimes I had been born and raised a Cardinals fan. I admire that Org so much.

MarineLayer
Super Member
4 months ago
Reply to  Angelstan

If MI is stacked,why is Velasquez the starting shortstop?

Fansince1971
Legend
4 months ago

The 2015 Draft was an example of how good choices really can change a team for a decade or more.

The Angels were coming off a great regular season in 2014 in which the team won 98 games and took the AL West by 10 games. So they had a pick at the end of the first round which was the famous Ward pick.

Houston had won 70 games in 2014 and were a team that was improving. The Astros had two picks in the first 5 – what a great opportunity. And they didn’t miss drafting Alex Bergman and Kyle Tucker. That draft changed the landscape of the AL West with an already improving Houston making the next step.

In 2015 Houston edged the Angels by a game for the wildcard winning 86 games. By 2017 the juggernaut was in place with Houston winning 101 games and winning the World Series.

So the 2015 draft changed the face of the AL West and was the nail in the coffin for the Angels.

Last edited 4 months ago by Fansince1971
FungoAle
Super Member
4 months ago
Reply to  Fansince1971

This is a draft thread, which player are you commenting on?

Fansince1971
Legend
4 months ago
Reply to  FungoAle

It’s a draft related comment. Who put you in charge?

Turk's Teeth
Editor
Super Member
4 months ago
Reply to  Fansince1971

The Nats are having a draft like that at the moment – with Crews, Morales and Sykora in the bag.

The Reds and Giants are cleaning up as well.

Fansince1971
Legend
4 months ago
Reply to  Turk's Teeth

Le sigh

Cowboy26
Legend
4 months ago
Reply to  Fansince1971

The 2010 draft and subsequent Pujols & Hamilton signings changed the talent base of this organization . By 2015 the die was already long cast and piled onto every subsequent year . 2014 was about eking out one more division title before everyone not named Mike Trout would fall off a cliff

Fansince1971
Legend
4 months ago
Reply to  Cowboy26

Agreed but my perspective was more that 2015 was the final nail because it led to Houston’s 7 year long dominance of the AL West.

Turk's Teeth
Editor
Super Member
4 months ago
Reply to  Fansince1971

It might have been the tipping point, but the 2010-2014 draft classes were brutal for the Angels. A lot of those also coincided with the most punishing CBA in a generation, where the Angels were ritually losing first and second round picks due to free agent acquisitions.

The Angels need to break the cycle, but I honestly don’t see how they do it without a comprehensive teardown. That’s not going to happen absent new ownership. They need to hit bottom, bring in a new wave of scouts, analysts, conditioning coaches, go hard in the Latin markets and exploit better drafting position.

This year’s draft is not what a team with a 5 year plan looks like.

Hatcher_Is_My_Homeboy
Trusted Member
4 months ago

lol OT: Some reporter at ASG just asked Shohei what he thought about playing for a “small market” team in the Angels.. Ippei even rephrased the question for the guy (Angels small market?) but he still asked anyway. The Ohtani delusion / Angel hate is so real. I bet you the guy was from Milwaukie or something too.

Last edited 4 months ago by Hatcher_Is_My_Homeboy
Senator_John_Blutarsky
Legend
4 months ago

Ippei should have channeled his inner Harper and told him “that’s a clown question, bro”

Kiyotchan
Super Member
4 months ago

That must have been on MLB Network, which I do not have access to. (Yes I am extremely cheap.) I am curious as to how Shohei answered that question. My best guess is something along the line of “I am blessed to play for the Angels.”

Kiyotchan
Super Member
4 months ago
Reply to  Kiyotchan

Of course, that comes from the belief that Shohei’s favorite movie is Bull Durham.
https://youtu.be/SB_LjL0lUJ4

Jayman28
Trusted Member
4 months ago
Reply to  Kiyotchan

Going to need a source on that as well

Hatcher_Is_My_Homeboy
Trusted Member
4 months ago
Reply to  Kiyotchan

Yea on MLB Network. Sho’s response was great. He basically said the Angels fans are amazing they come out every night because they love our team and we love them back. He then went into the standard answer he has been giving about not worrying about trade and free agency stuff and just focusing on winning ball games.

Last edited 4 months ago by Hatcher_Is_My_Homeboy
Kiyotchan
Super Member
4 months ago

Thank you for confirming Sho’s favorite movie.

I understand that University of California, Riverside is planning to offer special course this winter, “Communication with sports media” with Professor Sho and Ippei as adjunct Professor.

Jayman28
Trusted Member
4 months ago
Reply to  Kiyotchan

I’m going to need a source on that. This is the second statement you made that is totally out there.

Fleckstein
Trusted Member
4 months ago
Reply to  Jayman28

Wasn’t it Spock that said, “Humor, it is a difficult concept”?

Jayman28
Trusted Member
4 months ago
Reply to  Fleckstein

I don’t know since I never watched Star Trek

DowningDude
Legend
4 months ago
Reply to  Jayman28

Me neither Jayman.

Google tells us that someone named Saavik said:
Humor. It is a difficult concept. It is not logical.

No idea who that is

DowningDude
Legend
4 months ago
Reply to  Kiyotchan

🤣

grichmanpoorman
Trusted Member
4 months ago

Haven’t seen anything that resembles an overslot yet… in fact, all picks seem like underslots and pool-savers. Was hoping/thinking they’d take the Aiden Smith HS OF dude in the 4th but alas…

steelgolf
Super Member
4 months ago
Reply to  Jeff Joiner

So a possible reliever.

Senator_John_Blutarsky
Legend
4 months ago
Reply to  steelgolf

or Arte’s new investment portfolio manager.

ihearhowie3.0
Super Member
4 months ago
Reply to  Jeff Joiner

Player-GM

Cowboy26
Legend
4 months ago
Reply to  ihearhowie3.0

What was his Wonderlic score?

Last edited 4 months ago by Cowboy26
Kiyotchan
Super Member
4 months ago
Reply to  Cowboy26

That is actually an intriguing question. Harvard athletic site listed him as “Selected as the PSFCA East-West Game Kicker (East) in 2020 … Listed as a five-star prospect and ranked inside the top 15 amongst kickers” That means that NFL might be interested if he chooses to forgo this draft. He got another year to graduate from Harvard. He is economics major.

Based on above, he is 9 to 1 that he is NOT signing. Angels will save draft pool money for later rounds or year draft, right?

FungoAle
Super Member
4 months ago

Classic photo, Jeff. Perry means business.

FungoAle
Super Member
4 months ago
Reply to  Jeff Joiner

I like these lesser state schools who crank out ball players. LBSU Dirtbags at the top of the list.