Morning Angels fans. Let’s see what the damage is, but first, some links.
Angels News
In a span of 6 hours, Trout goes on IL, Rendon injures his knee, and Ohtani gets another finger injury. Oh and the Angels lost.
How bad has the injures gotten? Well, 7/9 of the best lineup we could muster is currently injured.
Well, what is the good news? Ummm, Adell is back up? We are really desperate here, huh?
Any better news? Well, the x rays are negative for Rendon and Ohtani’s blister would only hurt his pitching so he will not pitch until after the all star break.
Around Baseball
Tigers somehow accomplish the impossible. 12K, 2 hits, 0 ER, and a loss. That has never happened before.
Change year to year happens, but sometimes it does surprise you. Last 4th of July vs this year’s.
Well, time for All Star Game injury replacements. David Bednar, Kyle Tucker, Wander Franco, and more to come. Maybe there is a chance for more Angels after all…
Nelson Cruz has been DFA-ed. He is actually hitting better than last year. Huh.
How sweet, Andrew McCutchen met up with fans he met 8 years ago. Pirates fans in LA, huh.
Anything I missed? Post below for upvotes!
I’d like to point out that WTY, while he didn’t throw 12K, threw a no-hitter and lost.
well an 8 inning no hitter.
I think 4 weeks is extremely optimistic. I would say more likely 8 to 10 weeks.
https://twitter.com/RhettBollinger/status/1676723571291480064
With a rehab assignment, he might be back for the last two weeks of the regular season.
For all intents and purposes his thickness is gone for the 2023 season.
Then, we just have to win enough to get to the playoffs, so we can see Trout in October. Easy peasy! 😉
Making the playoffs this year Kiyot? Good one lol
According to FanGraph calculation, Angels have 19.3% chance. Much higher than I thought. 😙
I really don’t want to say this to you man since you are a nice person, but, that sounds like copium man
If there is a silver lining to be found, it’s the fact that the Angels & Trout opted quickly for the surgical solution. I was slightly concerned that they would hope for a natural recovery, waste a month before realizing that rest alone won’t resolve the problem, thus eliminating the possibility of Trout returning late in the season.
Let’s hope he recovers quickly and is examining tape re: his swing whilst on the mend.
Someone mentioned that Jose Ramirez of Guardians (formerly Indians) did have the same surgery and was able to return in 4 weeks after surgery. So there is that.
Checked BBRef, Ramirez played on 8/25/19 when he sustained the fracture, had surgery probably on 8/26/19, and he was back on action on 9/24/19. This sounds encouraging.
https://www.cbssports.com/mlb/news/indians-jose-ramirez-fractures-hamate-bone-in-right-hand-could-miss-rest-of-regular-season/
Rendon is not on IL yet.
https://twitter.com/JeffFletcherOCR/status/1676707438907768832
Adell will smash the ball
Hitting from the clean up spot
can Sandy do it?
Sandy has two outs and is already losing it.
Addendum: Zach Weiss in replace of Gerardo Reyes
No offense to Zach Weiss, but I hope we don’t see him pitch because that means that we will lose.
So I was double right?
Ha!
One of my old time favorite movies when I was in high school.
Overall I like this line up .Lets hope Moniak learns the strike zone before NL pitchers stop throwing him strikes. I like Escobar in the 2 hole. hes the old school prototypical . 2 (Not Angels no. 2) with limited strikeouts some speed and can hit and run.
Interesting the Squid is getting the start over Fletcher 2 days in a row. Phillip is probably still pissed about Fletch’s DP that wasn’t on Monday
Lugo’s splits this year: Not much difference in terms of BA between LH and RH bats. LHB hit 4 HR vs RHB hit 2 HR. RHB hit into 4 DB as opposed to LHB into 1 DB. Velazquez because he would be LHB against Lugo in my opinion.
Velazquez sucks vs RHP. This year is no different. Fletch SHOULD BE a much better hitter vs RHP’s than Squid.
Yes, I agree. He USED to be. And there is a little bit of advantage in that Squid is going to be steal threat only IF he gets on base. And that is big IF.
Let me be clear. I love both Trout and Ohtani, but Angels should trade them together to a contender. This will helps the Angels unload Trout’s contract, and give this team something more than one rental player since Ohtani is a free agent after this season. Trout returns in September, so the team can’t even take advantage of him now. I know Trout has a no trade clause but he has to be excited if he can go to a playoff team.
Rendon doesn’t have too much time left, so we will have to deal with keeping him around. He should just retire after this contract since the Angels gave him enough money to retire comfortably.
Well, Baseball is a team sport, it’s not lile Basketball where you can contend every year with just two stars
A few days ago I apologized to everyone because it seemed that we started losing right when I left the country.
However, things now really turned bad in the last few days coinciding with me flying down to Mauritius. Unless there is another Angels fan on this small island (or there is an astronaut Angels fan), I’m pretty sure I’m the most distant Angels fan there is. And that there is a correlation between my proximity to the stadium and wins.
I guess I need to ask my boss if I can work remotely and then buy myself a trailer I can work in outside the stadium.
I was just messing around with this for fun, but interestingly while I was typing this, I thought back to where I’ve lived, and it has been a very long time since I’ve lived anywhere closer to the stadium than where I lived from 2002 to 2008….
Breaking —- the sky is falling (and its Arte’s, Nevin’s fault) , plus clearly #33 and #52 aren’t performing so send them away. now. and forever.
and just put Shohei up on Craig’s list for four AA prospects – they will be guaranteed All-Stars. Promise.
I hope that part about Craigslist and the AA prospects was sarcasm. I really do.
Nah. He was dead Siri-iss
This team will fall below .500 before the All-Star Break and could very possibly not get back above it for the rest of the season.
next series are Dodgers, Astros, Yankees, and then Pirates, Tigers – we will go 2-12.
And then it will get harder.
😆
if we lose tonight and *then* go 2-12 that’d be a nice 3-19 stretch. We could blame Maddon like we did last season.
Here comes Houston chasing down Texas on a winning streak, yay 😔
It is uncanny how Colorado, Red Sox, Baltimore, and White Sox came so close to beating all the teams that Angels are competing for WC spots and flat out failed at the end, So disheartening and much sadness all around.
can’t be. Impossible.
Valdez and Altuve are both hurt. I’m sure their fans are saying their season is over and that they should trade them both plus prospects so they can compete next year or sometime in the future.
i think they should trade Tucker, Pena and Tucker too for prospects and they should wave the white flag on 2023 – the window is closed – blow it up and start over.
and its clearly the owners’ fault there too.
They don’t have to, they have a competent ownership group and most likely minor league depth. Comparing the Astros and Angels is like Apples and Oranges
If the stated goal is to be competitive for a championship, the status quo will not generate the needed results.
I have been an advocate for trading Ohtani for the simple fact that unless ownership goes through a full rebuild to include the baseball operations top to bottom, the “reload” strategy will not achieve the stated goal.
The model to have used with Ohtani was what Texas did with Teixeira and the Braves. The Rangers offered Teixeira a contract extension and when he declined, the trade was consummated. This trade positioned the Rangers for their championship runs in 2010 and 2011.
The trade window to get anything that will provide multi-year value is closed. Yes, trading Ohtani “now” would net more value for the Angels than a compensation draft pick, but trading Ohtani now all but guarantees he signs elsewhere.
The probability that Ohtani signs with the Angels is likely less than 30%, but it’s better than zero. Perry and Arte made their bed on this one, and it’s full of crap. The only way it gets better is to sign Ohtani.
I get this thought process and it is a reasonable argument. I would counter, however, that unless resources become basically unlimited (which the past says they will not be) signing Ohtani to some giant record setting deal is more likely to hurt the team than help it in the long run. The danger of yet another bloated contract with an aging player is counter to the goal. Additionally, dedicating $140-150 million to 3 players is only fine if the owner is willing to support an approximately $300m payroll. But nothing about Arte says that would be the case.
Given the lack of success this team has had with younger and healthier Trout and Ohtani – to me it’s better to get what can be gotten for Ohtani at this trade deadline. It will not be insignificant due to the fact that Ohtani could be the difference for a team between the playoffs and a Championship.
Yes, the haul of prospects would have been better last trade deadline- but it will still be vastly superior to either 1) a single 2nd round compensation pick or 2) saddling this team with nearly $150 million in payroll to three players who have shown no ability to win consistently together.
I understand the thought process and respect the perspectives. Thanks!
Fair enough perspective.
As you can read elsewhere, I think otherwise, because with this owner, I really don’t think signing Ohtani long term will benefit us…. because Arte will then have his new marquee player and skimp everywhere else… for the next 10 years.
Ohtani surrounded by AAAA players. That last sentence is indeed an exaggeration, but explaining my thought.
I understand the thought process and respect the perspectives. Thanks!
So then why did he not skimp this year with a record payroll? And Why did he start spending money on the farm system the last couple of years?
This is the new Arte 3.0. The question is will the new Arte 3.0 revert back to the old Arte 2.0 or still spend money on the farm system and target strategic high priced free agents like Arte 1.0 did?
I think the answer to that is tied directly with offers for the team… If the salesprice doesn’t change Arte will invest to make the team better… At the end of the day he is what he is : a businessman.
the difference in player personnel in terms of $$ is Drury. Our payroll is the same as last year plus Ohtani’s new salary plus Drury’s salary. That’s it.
I think Perry was creative with the payroll, getting better players this season than last but he really didn’t have much to work with.
Tough Crowd report. There appears to be a three-way spit at CtPG. One third believe that Renny is an addition to the team. One third believe Fletcher is the better long-term choice. The remaining one third wants both gone.
At this point of a downward spiral, does it matter, after all the team is sinking in quicksand and it is only a matter of minutes before the complete suckage takes place. 😁 😄
The fourth third want Neto & Drury to come back healthy right after the All star Break so it really won’t matter who our back up infielders are.
I have always admired your creative math, Cowboy-San! Will be looking forward to Neto and Drury return to action. Confident that Neto will be back shortly after ASG assuming that he will have some sim games or rehab games during the break. I have not heard much about Drury with shoulder contusion, which can be tricky at times. Hopefully our Sammy would ask the question soon.
Cortisone shots should be passed around the club house like eye black, let’s go!
…or they can visit the White House and get some better chemicals.
Hunter ain’t sharin
Hunter Renfroe = cocaine bear?
He would be my first suspect politricks aside
It would explain his horrible RiSP numbers
All they have to do is mandatory random everybody who works at the W/H…but they wont.
Everyone wants Neto & Drury back.
The Fletcher vs. Rengifo debate is essentially shuffling deck chairs on the Titanic.
Tom Verducci in today’s on-line edition of Sports Illustrated:
“The Angels are a Mercedes 300 SL Gullwing with a blown engine. They are a Tuscan villa with backed up plumbing. They are Southern California on a rainy day. Baseball’s contribution to empty artistry.
With Trout and Ohtani as teammates for the past six years, the Angels:
My thoughts exactly. What about the last five seasons makes anyone believe this year will be different. Those who do not learn from the past are doomed to repeat it.
It is time for systemic change and a rebuild in my opinion. It can only be partially done because Trout and Rendon are likely not tradeable.
I’m also hoping the team is finally sold this offseason with a new owner committed to building a baseball organization first where marketing is handled separately from baseball decisions.
Some fans on here have been drinking the insanity kool aid since 2015
There FIFY
And this is from a Knicks Fanatic..
https://twitter.com/awfulannouncing/status/1676649155601506308
That dude is, always has been, and always will be a certified jackass.
He is the one who openly questioned why Shohei does not speak English to reporters. He got so many negative responses that he later apologized for misspeaking; he did not want to be viewed as racially divisive. I often wondered if he was criticizing a Caucasian foreign player who does not speak English, he would have apologized.
But, he is not afraid of calling Angels fans irrelevant. Click bait?
But…….
He also doesn’t know shit about baseball…
I was hoping Stephen A was going to be a victim of the ESPN purge
Ha ha. Totally.
He’s awful. Always has been, but BSPN is likely scared of the inevitable backlash for firing him.
I cannot find Estevez on any All Star lists…what am I missing.
I have not found any credible piece of evidence that Estevez has been selected, either. There was a questionable reddit account that promoted Shohei giving up his pitcher’s selection to Estevez. That would be a worthy cause now that Shohei is not pitching. It is story perfect, heart warming for Shohei to relinquish his two-wayness for his buddy.
I just knew you would have the straight scoop K.
That would be super good guy move by Ohtani!!
But manfraud is not a nice person so we will see?
Estevez in place of Ohtani (P) makes perfect sense. I didn’t want Ohtani (and Trout) to participate at all but it unfortunately required varying injuries to keep both players out.
File that under “Be Careful What You Wish For”.
i think its on Kari Lake’s web site that says not only is he in, he will be starting
Yu Chang of Red Sox is another player who had hamate fracture earlier in the season. Per MLBTR, he is slated to return to R Sox lineup this week. His last game was on 4/24, so he has been able to return to action in about 10 weeks. Not quite 6-8 weeks that most people suggested.
According to Medical New Today, a simple fracture is typically 6-8 weeks for recovery, while one requiring surgery may be 3+ months.
Yu Chang had surgery, so 10 weeks is actually a fast recovery.
You are correct in that in many medical articles I have read in last 48 hours that the surgery results in 2-3 month recovery. Sounds like there are two different types of hamate fracture surgery. It is noteworthy that many NPB batters suffered this particular affliction. They are often encouraged to practice swings at home (1000 swings per day is pretty normal for them, it could be Samurai tradition who practiced their sword swings 1000 times a day).
One player I follow closely is Kotaro Kiyomura, who plays for Nippon Ham Fighters. He also played for the Little League team of Chofu city (where I grew up) who won LLWS championship in 2012. He had hamate fracture two seasons ago in late March and took him 3 months to return to action. He is doing very well this year, by the way.
Giffy hitting .428 in his last 5 games with a dinger and a 2b and 3b. Let’s keep him in there
Unfortunately even during his hot streak hes still not hitting with runners in scoring position (.208/.313/.64 splits this season) which probably explains his 5 strikeouts hes amassed in those 5 games ( 17 PA’s)
This is why I will never understand Phillip’s decision that had him PH over Moustakas in the 9th inning to end that Rockies game 2 Sundays ago.
Of course With Rengifo its the total package including his consistently horrible defense and clueless base running as well.
Reported from Dr. Ira Ishkabibble, after examining Phil Nevin’s brain matter found that his Brain Bumper Bearings had not absorbed the full impact of managing at a level further than T-Ball when addressing substitutional Baseball. Long term prognosis is dismissal later rather than sooner.
As some of you, who are regular perusers of MLBTR, American baseball scouts have more than ever been paying attention to NPB players, especially pitchers. I have mentioned two names previously, who Shohei has intimated that they are better than he.
Yoshinobu Yamamotto (Orix Buffalos) has again pitched well this season with ERA 1.89 at pace of 200+ SO this season.
Roki Sasaki (Lotte Marines)) has probably the best season with ERA 1.69 with at pace of 220+ SO this season. I will not be surprised if he pitches another perfect game this year. He was just selected as starting pitcher for Pacific League in NPB ASG.
Yamamoto is expected to be posted after this season. He is someone that Canning can emulate should Yamamoto be acquired by the Angels.
Sasaki just became 21 years old, so probably 2028 season, but he can always do Shohei by jumping to MLB, let all MLB teams to interview him and drool before he chooses Angels.
Even though I suspect American sports agents are singlehandedly destroying major sports franchises, I hope they are working on some deal to alter MLB and NPB gentleman agreements that they do not avail their players for midseason trades, Can you imagine how much they would profit if Yamamoto, who is MLB ready, is available now?
Interesting take, which seems to follow the general consensus here. But I am confused, how are agents destroying franchises? Are they threatening ownership with fatal “accidents” if they don’s sign their clients? Holding guns to owners heads and making them sign ridiculous contracts?
Isn’t an agents job to advocate, and maximize the value they can obtain for their client? I’ve never understood the thought process that a player – ANY player, should accept less than he is worth just to make fans feel warm and fuzzy.
Economics was not my major, but if it weren’t for Mathematics, I would have loved to take it further than just Macroeconomics and Microeconomics that I took in my senior year. I really did not have to study much and still aced both courses, laughing out loud at those freshmen who barely passed the courses because they drank too much over weekends before midterm and final exams.
Because of how NPB is operated with no agents, players salaries are well controlled. There is no cap on salaries, not longer than 3 year contracts, no CBT, and NPB players salaries are calculated based on their numbers on the field. There was one notable player led strike due to one idiot owner who insulted baseball players’ intelligence when owners group attempted to contract the league to 10 teams instead of present 12 teams due to 2 teams economic hardships. Players were successfully got Japanese baseball fans support and the deadlock was solved to player’s favor. Except for that, there has been relative peace between players and owners, and they have been flourishing, especially after this year’s WBC championship.
I truly believe the American system of using agents is inflationary and invites unnecessary haves and have nots not only between teams but players. It is amazingly good for a small number of players, but not so much for other fringe athletes. MLB is probably the worst, NBA somewhat better because of their cap system and NFL somewhere in between. Just my opinion and observation.
I’m so over this current Org.
The Athletic = Sam the Hat?
I really cant blame them
Yes, the great Angel whisperer Sam Blum.
Sam: How in the hell is this team #6 in MLB in runs scored? Is this part of a disinformation campaign?
This certainly is THE No.1 question/complaint/comment I read quite often during the in-game threads. “Why are we swinging at the first pitch?!!!”. “Why are we not running up the pitch count?!!!”
Do we think EIP or possible Allen B are Sam Blum burner accounts? Kiyo?
Thats an insult to EiP . hell that might even be an insult to Allen B.
LMAO. Maybe the 20+ tweets a game, incited Sam to want to ask.
well, I’m taking the long view. I mentioned yesterday that if we go up swinging at and making contact on the first pitch 8 times in a game we’ll be out 6 times. So that’s 6 pitches, 6 outs and it’s like giving two free innings to the starter.
That’s the difference between getting him out after 5 or getting him out after 7 innings. Swinging at the first pitch allows the other team to rest their bullpen. I’m thinking, especially in the first game of a series, be patient, make the starter throw a lot, get the bullpen into action as early as possible so that in games 2 and 3 they’re getting fatigued.
EIP, I hope you know I was just funning with you. I too dislike the 6-8 pitch innings, team needs to grind better than that. I personally don’t mind Athletic (Blum) seeking comments on the apparent lack of game plan.
hey, no offense taken at all! By this time we all know each other well enough to chuckle at our witticisms!
I remember my dad trying to teach me the game as a kid, and one of the pointers he mentioned was that a good leadoff hitter tries to see a bunch of pitches. Not grounding out to second on the first pitch.
We do that way too much.
Some of the recent numbers show how hard it is on batters after going 0-1, so pitchers are throwing more strikes to start an AB. As a result, more batters are looking to swing at the first pitch if it is the type and location they like. This makes it the opposite of Trout’s traditional AB, where he is down 0-1 or 0-2 at the drop of a hat. I think the key is sometimes swinging early if you get something you like, and the rest of the time doing as your dad suggested.
Good points
Hmmmm.
What do the Angels have to hide ???
The same thing they are hiding with their player medical information.
And everyone knows their injury management program is so inept that MLB selected their Trainer to be on the AL Allstar staff.
Maybe Manfraud likes the teams elite obfuscation and misinformation reporting skills.
Frostad is on the All Star team…you could build an entire stand up routine around that weird factoid.
Another bummer summer of meaningless Angel baseball. They couldn’t have made it through July at least and lessened the distance until football starts?
Totally how I’m feeling. On July 4th last year I was jobless and the Angels sucked. At least this year I have a job.
Losing Trout right when he started to produce was typical late season Angels luck. Rendon was the worst signing since Hamilton and the pitching is unreliable. I do not believe in this team now making the playoffs so it’s time to see if someone will offer a kings ransom for Ohtani. It won’t be fun losing the best player in baseball but we need to get something before he leaves eventually anyway. We can throw in Ward and Rengifo to help carry his luggage to whatever destination that happens to be.
When a certain approach results in the same unfortunate result year after year – It is time to try something different. So I agree with you.
Interesting article on that front.
https://www.si.com/mlb/giants/rumors/phoenix-suns-sabotage-sf-giants-shohei-ohtani-pursuit-yuta-watanabe
Cliff Note Version:
-Yuta Watanabe, NBA player who recently played for Nets, is a good friend of Shohei and has expressed interest in playing for a team in the city that Shohei would be playing for.
-Giants fans seeing that twitter from Watanabe hoped that the Warriors would sign him, They were disappointed to hear that he singed with the Phoenix Suns, and they have been trolled by Diamondbacks fans, who now think that Shohei would be traded to Phoenix.
I guess it is not a delusional hyperbole to think that Diamondbacks may offer Corbin Carrols.
Maybe we can triple down on our Fletchers.
You are also trading kind looking Jeff Fletcher of OC Register in addition to our beloved Fletch plus Shohei? Wow, you are generous. I don’t know if Jeff would appreciate the desert’s dry heat, though.
I am of the opinion that Ohtani needs to be traded. DBacks would be a good place; but, not sure how willing they would be to part with Gallen, Carroll and others?!?!
Because of Angels clear need of decent offensive and defensive OF, Carroll should be #1 choice, but Gallen would be close second if they are desperate enough to make that offer.
I guess you did not read my post. Which team do you suggest? Doyers, Reds, or Diamondbacks? Would you trade Shohei if Sheehan and Miller, De La Cruz, or Caroll is offered?
I would prefer a trade to the Giants for Kyle Harrison (LHP), Luis Matos (OF) and Carson Wisenhunt (LHP). Those are the Giants 1st, 3rd and 4th prospects. All three are top 100 prospects with Harrison at #13.
We would all prefer those prospects but you guys are delusional to think that any team would offer them for a 2 month rental player.
Of course, it is my delusional hyperbole talking, but if Diamondbacks who made their last playoffs in 2017 are desperate enough, they may be courting for Shohei 2 mo service despite loss of Corbin Carroll, who I am sure you would take.
I would be happy to trade for Ohtani if I did not have the contracts of Trout and Rendone to worry about and my team was not the Angels. 🤷♂️
I’m not sure about this exact list of players, but I do believe that Ohtani carries so much value, including massive press/marketing hype value, that a team that is dedicated to go “all in” would pay up for Ohtani.
I do not believe that trading Ohtani will boil down to someone going on some “trade calculator” on a website and offering whatever balances perfectly.
Anthony Rendon games played:
2020: 52/60
2021: 58/162
2022: 47/162
2023: 43/88
= 42.4%
2021-2023: 148/412
= 36%
Anthony Rendon has played 42.4% of games as an Angel. If we remove 2020, Rendon has played in 36% of total games since the 2021 season.
Rendon was good in the pandemic-shortened 2020 season finishing 10th in MVP voting.
Since the 2020 season, Rendon has on played in 148/412 games (36%), putting up a sub .700 OPS in that time.
Anthony Rendon is signed thru 2026 totaling $114 million ($38 mill per year).
This would rank as the worst signing for most clubs.
Under Arte this is third behind Hamilton and Pujols but liking surpassing Gramps soon. Sadly, there are a host of others not far behind.
Nobody saw this rapid decline occurring with Rendon. The team had no 3rd baseman, no other stout hitter to support Trout in the line-up and…no 3rd base prospects even in the pipeline
Hamilton was an ill choice due the fat chalk lines and Alert was on the wrong side of 30 for a 10-year contract. While Rendon has greatly underperformed, I don’t think anyone would have predicted this bad. His swing has looked atrocious. Does he even want to play anymore? For me, I don’t even bring him back this year and questionable for next. Eat the cost and draft a 3rd base prospect.
Didnt you mean “….the wrong side of 40…”?
Thanks for that fact check, yes…40! btw. he sucks on the MLB Network
Exactly.
The fact Arte believed Albert’s stated age despite all the evidence to the contrary is on Arte.
I didn’t think it would be this bad. I thought it would start to get bad about this year or next but that we’d have gotten really solid value out of him until now.
I’ve never complained on this site that Rendon was a bad move. It looked solid at the time. Only hindsight tells us that he would suddenly fall apart.
There were more cautionary signs with Pujols and Hamilton.
It would be interesting to let Dr Strange look into a future timeline where we extended Ohtani with $500MM, and tell us if that will become #1 on that worst contract list.
Wow, what the heck just happened?
Injuries galore.
The Sho proven human by a blister and a hangnail.
Making the playoffs seems to be slip-sliding away.
And, the “trade Shohei before it’s too late” refrain is getting louder again.
What is most apparent to me is that good teams rise to the occasion when adversity strikes.
It will be interesting to see if Nevin and the current roster can plug the gap and keep the Halos in the hunt.
Let’s see if Nevin can deal with adversity and prove us wrong….
It ain’t over yet, my faithful Halos Brethren; but, damn, things sure did go south in a hurry…….
I think with the recent swath of key injuries, the Angels will not be making big name trades and send out their prospects. Sucks. We could see Renfroe moved or a Devenski moved for some lower level prospects.