LA Angels Weekend News Crash: Heads a Rollin’

Missing the playoffs for an eighth straight year means some heads needed to roll. Those heads are never at the top of the organization, Arte’s friends are set.

So the two hitting coaches are getting the axe and Mike Gallego is being moved.

No word yet on Gallego’s future but he will be with the Angels in some capacity. I’ll reach out to him to see if I can figure out where. He’s back in Scottsdale enjoying his new granddaughter.

If you missed my interview with Gallego this season catch it here.

All news regarding the Angels will start and finish with Shohei Ohtani for a while. Back in Japan he said he had a negative impression of the Angels this year. Trade speculation is going nuts.

In some good news both Luis Rengifo and Brandon Marsh are finalists for gold gloves.

And the official site takes a look at five rising prospects in a farm system they categorize as “on the rise.”

That’s about it for Angels news. Now for news around the league…

The playoffs are fun, they are exciting, but make no mistake they are still a crapshoot.

Dodgers president Andrew Friedman basically said the same when speaking to the media.

So while the Dodgers have some changes to make this off season, Roberts won’t be one of them.

I think we all loved it when the Padres beat the loathed Dodgers. The NLCS is tied at one game apiece after a thrilling game 2 in SD. I can’t go this entire piece without linking this mammoth shot from Schwarber in game one.

I’ll be rooting for the winner of this series regardless of which squad wins the ALCS.

Speaking of teams we hate, the Astros continued success means Houston haters are running out of ammo per SI. Maybe. We also thought the Patriots stopped cheating after SpyGate only to learn they were cheating with soft footballs that were easier to catch and harder to fumble. So let’s give it a few years before we say they’ve stopped cheating.

But at least Bob Kraft finally found true love at 81 years old. The old guy always did love a happy ending.

The Astros saga illustrates what I consider to be a huge problem in modern media and society. Everything is either/or when most things are actually “and.” In the Astros case they drafted great players and developed them well. These great players were very good without cheating but were simply great with cheating. Yes, like the Patriots, the Astros are both good and a pack of lowlife cheaters.

Earlier this week I wrote about what the Nationals sale might tell us about the Angels sale. At that time there was no clear leader to buy the team in DC. That looks to have changed as Ted Leonsis’ Group is expected to close that deal. There’s still no timeframe, however.

The off season is perfect to fix nagging injuries. So far this week, Jose Ramirez has announced he’ll have hand surgery and a pair or Mariners are going under the knife. All are expected to be ready for Spring Training in 2023.

At this point I wonder if the surgical team yells “Norm!” when Fernando Tatis Jr. walks into the room. He had a follow up procedure done this week.

On that note, I leave you with the greatest TV theme song of all time. Please fill in anything I missed and post your favorite TV theme songs below.

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Mia
Legend
Mia
1 year ago

Thought this twitter thread might be of some interest here.

https://twitter.com/angelsmilb/status/1584030614231035905?s=46&t=TNQAIjfhGqisp0hLYQRA7Q

DowningDude
Legend
1 year ago
Reply to  Mia

Could also be JackFrost

Jayman28
Trusted Member
1 year ago
Reply to  DowningDude

I bet my money it’s JackFrost

JackFrost
Super Member
1 year ago
Reply to  Jayman28

It’s not.

DowningDude
Legend
1 year ago
Reply to  JackFrost

🤣

Cowboy26
Legend
1 year ago
Reply to  Jayman28

I would bet money that Jack Frost would think you’re serious.

DowningDude
Legend
1 year ago
Reply to  Cowboy26

And don’t call him Shirley

WallyChuckChili
Legend
1 year ago

Sorry Jeff, but the Greatest TV theme song of all time.

The Munsters
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=oFCnvH2E-6A
or
Sandford and Son.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=T5DnqW3F57E

Cowboy26
Legend
1 year ago

Im kind of partial to this one. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D8rViF7V_oA

JackFrost
Super Member
1 year ago

“Sanford and Son” was definitely a classic.

Loved hearing that opening music with the jalopy going down the street..

Angelstan
Trusted Member
1 year ago

Correct answer is either Theme to the Rockford Files or Hawaii Five O.

red floyd
Legend
1 year ago
Reply to  Angelstan

Not bad choices. I vote for UFO

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1qDy4OMAkgY

DowningDude
Legend
1 year ago
Reply to  red floyd

WKRP? CHiPs?

DowningDude
Legend
1 year ago
Reply to  DowningDude

And Three’s Company

max
Trusted Member
max
1 year ago
Reply to  DowningDude

SWAT

DowningDude
Legend
1 year ago
Reply to  max

Silver Spoons

Cowboy26
Legend
1 year ago
Reply to  DowningDude

Facts of Life?

DowningDude
Legend
1 year ago
Reply to  Cowboy26

comment image

gitchogritchoffmypettis
Legend
Reply to  DowningDude

This needs to inspire a shared image database on CtPG where anyone can pull this up as needed.

BannedInLA
Super Member
1 year ago
Reply to  Angelstan

I’ll take “The Twilight Zone” and “The Sopranos” for $1,000, Alex.

GrandpaBaseball
Legend
1 year ago

Rengifo up for a gold glove award. Not the Stone-Cold Glove Award? Shohei was not considered for a Gold Glove? No Walsh either. Rengifo!!! I want some of what those guys are smoking. Gawd has the sport changed.

Cowboy26
Legend
1 year ago

Jack of all trades master of none GG award.

BannedInLA
Super Member
1 year ago

Did Walsh play enough to qualify for the GG?

Commander_Nate
Member
Trusted Member
1 year ago

Juan Rivera > Juan Soto.

gitchogritchoffmypettis
Legend
Reply to  Commander_Nate

At cooking. You forgot to clarify.

red floyd
Legend
1 year ago

And definitely at frosting the tips of his hair.

JackFrost
Super Member
1 year ago

Rangers just signed Bochy to a 3 yr deal.

Rangers Hire Bruce Bochy As Manager – MLB Trade Rumors

We can’t have nice things.  😕 

Last edited 1 year ago by JackFrost
Mikeal1st
Trusted Member
1 year ago

Proof the MFY are evil. They have a player they refer to as Vader?
I’m sure Putin is a minority owner also.

Parting with coaches means it was either a mistake to hire them or now fire them, but still a mistake.

Is it just me that thinks that not only do the Angels need a better system for developing MiLP’s but a big part of that system is not rushing them to the majors? Like, let’s build a winner at AAA before jumping to the majors. Minasian, “I think the best way to break in players is for them to force our hand,” sounds right but will it happen?

I love stats, and the FanGraphs article, but we all knew anyway. Didn’t we?

I don’t think the Dodgers really need to do anything except add an Ohtani and a Trout.
“Houston’s Haters Are Running Out of Ammo”? I still have plenty of clips left… so I read the article, and I have left ammo now. Sounds like a really well run minor system… but I still have ammo… somewhere around here.

Marsh = BAMF

https://www.sportingnews.com/us/mlb/news/brandon-marsh-hair-greasy-phillies/ty5fs1can6aqae3ukljqkp4o 

smithy610
Super Member
Angelstan
Trusted Member
1 year ago

I don’t understand the whole Ohtani issue. Unless he has very differing views, he likely only wants to play on the West Coast. The Angels would never trade him to the Dodgers or Padres. They won’t trade him in the division. So long-term that leaves only the Giants.

If they trade him anywhere else, he likely wouldn’t re-sign there unless he somehow likes NY. So I don’t get all of the speculation. Where do people think this is headed?

cookmeister
Trusted Member
1 year ago
Reply to  Angelstan

Why wouldn’t we trade him to the Padres?

Dodgers I understand because of the PR nightmare, but if they offered May, Cartaya, Lux + we would have to seriously think about that

Mikeal1st
Trusted Member
1 year ago
Reply to  cookmeister

I could see the Angels trading him to the Dodgers.

cookmeister
Trusted Member
1 year ago
Reply to  Mikeal1st

I can too now. 4 months ago I would have said no way but, now I can definitely see it

Mikeal1st
Trusted Member
1 year ago
Reply to  cookmeister

Add Ohtani to that team and the crapshoot of playoffs is over. He brings one win per 5 game series and two wins per 7.

gitchogritchoffmypettis
Legend
Reply to  Mikeal1st

No. No he doesn’t. I’ve seen it.

JackFrost
Super Member
1 year ago
Reply to  cookmeister

Lol on your Dodgers offer  😂 

Try Will Smith, Buehler, Lux, Graterol and Bobby Miller. Then maybe we’ll talk.

cookmeister
Trusted Member
1 year ago
Reply to  JackFrost

dodgers wouldn’t offer that.. if it was 3-4 years of Ohtani maybe.

Ohtani deal is going to be a little lighter than the Soto deal. A top prospect and two good young major league players would be tough not to at least look at

JackFrost
Super Member
1 year ago
Reply to  cookmeister

Well, then the Dodgers “ain’t getting no Coke.”

Last edited 1 year ago by JackFrost
gitchogritchoffmypettis
Legend
Reply to  JackFrost

You know what his actual value is on simulators (which tend to be right about trades)? 56. Not 256. He makes 30+ million now.

JackFrost
Super Member
1 year ago

I don’t give a shit about “simulators.” Simulators way overvalue prospects.

gitchogritchoffmypettis
Legend
Reply to  JackFrost

Cool story. But as I said, the simulators tend to be right about what teams get back in trade for players. So get ready to give a shit about not getting what you wanted if we trade Ohtani, and have a good angry weep.

Since he got paid Ohtani’s just not that valuable to an org. That trade you want is a 134/52 (turns out Ohtani’s 52) lopsided trade to us.

Yeah, no ones giving up that amount of cheap WAR… even just in “crappy prospects” much less cost controlled MLB talent. You wouldn’t make that trade either if it was us trading for Ohtani.

JackFrost
Super Member
1 year ago

That may be true that the simulators tend to be close to what happens in MLB trades.

But maybe, just maybe that is why so many teams get screwed and lose the trade when they deal their established stars for prospects

gitchogritchoffmypettis
Legend
Reply to  JackFrost

So, when the Doyers laugh out loud at that trade proposal all PTP has to do is tell them;

“You know Andrew, I’ve heard that the reason some teams get screwed on trades is because the data we all use to determine the value of players is wrong. So you should totally give me three times what you think Ohtani is worth.”

And Andrew Freidman’s like, “Oh. I hadn’t thought of how I need to make sure you come out ten miles ahead on this trade cause CtPG guy says Ohtani’s worth so much. Sure, let’s do this!”

Maybe, just maybe, this whole line of reasoning is full of shit. You know the other team in any trade is gonna want to also not get screwed right? And they go into the trade knowing they have to pay Ohtani and Ohtani’s not staying here.

But hey, to each his own magical unicorn. Maybe Newonwerz will do something stupid and sign Ohtani for forever for everything cause Bade Root.

JackFrost
Super Member
1 year ago

Lol.

My “offer” was at least partly tongue in cheek. Really I was trying to prove a point. I wasn’t proposing that as something I think or thought could happen, but trying to point out that 95% of the trades folks here and elsewhere come up with for Ohtani are getting the Angels way too little back in return.. When they do that the tend to play into and perpetuate a system that makes the rich teams richer and the poor ones poorer.

My post was really trying to show that, and hopefully people won’t be as willing to give him away for nothing…

Last edited 1 year ago by JackFrost
Fansince1971
Legend
1 year ago
Reply to  JackFrost

‘and hopefully people won’t be as willing to give him away for nothing’

Who are these ‘people’ you speak of?

If it’s the peeps on CTPG….who cares what fanatics think? It makes zero difference and I promise you no one who is truly involved is listening to or reading info from this site.

If ‘people’ are folks in the Angels Organization, then I am truly laughing out loud if you think they read and consider your (or anyone’s) post.

JackFrost
Super Member
1 year ago
Reply to  Fansince1971

“cookmeister” is the one who brought it up in this thread… so I was referring to him as one.

As for your analysis re: impact or effect of our commentary, this is a subtle thing. Ever heard of
“propaganda”? Do you understand the idea of “winning the hearts and minds”? These concepts are about psychological influence and do not represent any concrete change.

That said, many times concrete realities are seeded in ideas and concepts. In fact, they usually are. So, in an abstract way, dialogue and ideas on sites like this can and DO sometimes impact physical reality…It is the same reason a loud and vocal fanbase can influence team personnel decisions.

BTW, how do you think it came about that certain decision makers in the org decided to abandon “Build Me Up Buttercup” as the self-destructive 7th inning “Fight Song.’??

Or perhaps you know the story of why Bill Stoneman ultimately decided not to trade Erstad in the middle of the 2002 season ?

This community and the Angels fan community in general had ALOT to do with those decisions…

Last edited 1 year ago by JackFrost
Fansince1971
Legend
1 year ago
Reply to  JackFrost

I’m not sure I buy fully into that thought process. Maybe, the Buttercup thing. That’s a fan base issue.

But the trading or retention of players, I highly doubt anyone in any management position listens to fan commentary as part of their decision making.

Now, I’m sure with a very popular player like Ohtani, the thought of losing butts in the seats or the loss of national and international attention (and jersey sales) might factor in. But not what fans say on chat boards.

Interestingly, all this “trade Ohtani and get a buttload of players” chat on this board is somewhat late. The time to do that was during the 2022 trade deadline when he was making $5 million and his trade simulator value was around 100. His value has now been cut in half by the $30 million, lack of team control after 2023 and looming contract.

I was urging the Angels to trade Ohtani at that deadline on this site but they clearly were not listening.

Last edited 1 year ago by Fansince1971
JackFrost
Super Member
1 year ago
Reply to  Fansince1971

But the trading or retention of players, I highly doubt anyone in any management position listens to fan commentary as part of their decision making.

If this is what you think then you don’t know your Angels history. The retention of Erstad in 2002 was definitely impacted by Angels fans. Actually it was solely because season ticket holders protested in masse by flooding the front office with phone calls when news of the trade leaked prior to it being executed… Stoneman reversed his course and the rest is history…

So, yes, fans CAN impact personnel decisions. It admittedly does not happen all the time, but it CAN happen on occasion.

Last edited 1 year ago by JackFrost
Cowboy26
Legend
1 year ago
Reply to  JackFrost

Really? I remember the trade rumor in the post 2001 off season but neither me nor any of my many season ticket holder friends ever told me they called the Angels front office in protest.

Most everybody I talked to after the fact was more like: “boy Ersty kind of sucked the last year after the seminal 2000 season so maybe we can get some good players for him.”
Of course everybody was relieved when he captained the team to the World Series even with another disappointing offensive performance in 2002.

Here’s the article: https://www.upi.com/Sports_News/2001/12/12/Deal-for-Erstad-falls-through/12851008207446/ Apparently the White Sox GM knew this was going to be a tough sell to Angel management but I doubt the phone was even ringing.

Not sure if it was going to be that great of trade anyways as Jon Garland really only had one really good season in the White Sox 2005 Championship season and Singleton flamed out after his eventual trade to Baltimore. Maybe this was Stonemasons way of getting the front office (Disney) to commit to ponying up some future cash to keep Ersty. But, ironically, it was eventually, the evil young Arte that did.

JackFrost
Super Member
1 year ago
Reply to  Cowboy26

Yeah, apparently, Erstad knew about the fans
calling the team saying they wanted him on the roster because when he eventually left the Angels he paid for a full page add (think it was OC Register but not sure) thanking the Angels fans for everything.

Players don’t usually do that.

Last edited 1 year ago by JackFrost
gitchogritchoffmypettis
Legend
Reply to  JackFrost

I don’t see how this makes anything apparent. Plenty of players take out ads thanking fans if they play on a team long enough and it has nothing to do with a season ticket holder revolt to keep them on a team.

JackFrost
Super Member
1 year ago

“Plenty of players” take out ads thanking fans?

I don’t recall seeing this too many times. If by “plenty” you mean alot, then perhaps you could rattle off ten times where that has happened before…

Last edited 1 year ago by JackFrost
gitchogritchoffmypettis
Legend
Reply to  JackFrost

Harrison Bader, Andrew McCutchen, Freddie Freeman, Jimmy Rollins, Ryan Dempster, Yu Darvish, Elvis Andrus, Evan Longoria, Jason Hammel, Jon Lester, Barry Zito, Eric Hosmer, Nolan Arenado, Tim Hudson, Corey Hart, Todd Helton, Billy Butler, Nick Markakis, Chase Utley, Max Scherzer, Ben Zobrist, David Price, Roy Hallady, Paul Goldschmidt, Jake Arrieta, Jonathan Lucroy, Danny Valencia, Carl Crawford, Carlos Ruiz hell there are even college players like Dylan Dusek who have done it.

Then there’s guys who do it on social media. Then there’s all the guys from other sports who do it.

Jack, why not just realize that when ever I question what you say it’s because I’m right?

JackFrost
Super Member
1 year ago

Alright then. Nicely done.

Does not mean you are ALWAYS right however.

Last edited 1 year ago by JackFrost
WallyChuckChili
Legend
1 year ago

Compared to the amount of players to leave a team in all those years. 29 is not plenty.

Maybe a few.
Like .0735%

gitchogritchoffmypettis
Legend

Know how many of those guys I recalled took out an ad because the fans forced the FO not to trade them? 0%

JackFrost
Super Member
1 year ago

Look, just because you were right about “plenty” of players taking out ads does not mean you are correct about what happened with Erstad.

This Erstad issue was actually something that was talked about quite a bit back at Halo’s Heaven. It is not something I made up.

Cowboy26
Legend
1 year ago

Considering that the add was taken out 5 years after the botched trade attempt I doubt there was a correlation.

JackFrost
Super Member
1 year ago
Reply to  Cowboy26

The add was taken out when he left the Angels. That is kind of what one would expect, I think.

gitchogritchoffmypettis
Legend
Reply to  JackFrost

Then the fact that we suck and also have total shit luck is also seeded in the ideas and concepts constantly put forth by the fanbase. The fans… even more powerful and constant than ownership. The factor that is truly present in every equation. The generator of bad Ju Ju.

Blame the fans. We got rid of a song and kept gritty overrated fantasy man Ersty because of them. The team also makes most of their bad decisions based on the environment and atmosphere they create.

BannedInLA
Super Member
1 year ago
Reply to  JackFrost

Edward Bernays wants to re-tweet this post.

gitchogritchoffmypettis
Legend
Reply to  Fansince1971

No! They totally read this site and listen to me. Then they ignore me. Which is why PTP is a fool and Arte is evil.

Fansince1971
Legend
1 year ago

Ha! Exactly

Cowboy26
Legend
1 year ago
Reply to  JackFrost

Well, here’s my offer: comment image

JackFrost
Super Member
1 year ago
Reply to  Cowboy26

One of the great scenes in cinematic history.

Great primarily for the underplayed manner that Pacino delivered the line.

And btw, this would be my response when teams come calling and wanting to give us three or four crap prospects for Ohtani. Meaning: I am not trading him for anything that you are prepared to offer…

Last edited 1 year ago by JackFrost
Dogface1956
Trusted Member
1 year ago
Reply to  JackFrost

At least half of the teams must win the trade.

JackFrost
Super Member
1 year ago
Reply to  Angelstan

What’s happening is what always happens.

Namely, it is East Coast media trying to pry our superstars away from us, preferably for pennies on the dollar…

Remember Trout’s Free Agency? The same shit happened, only the East Coast a-holes in the MSM (and some Dodger loving West Coast media as well) failed to achieve their aim. They are at it again, and nothing would make me happier than for us to thwart their attempts at Corporate Welfare MLB style.

Last edited 1 year ago by JackFrost
Fansince1971
Legend
1 year ago
Reply to  JackFrost

No one is going to need to ‘pry’ a year from now. He’s gone after 2023.

JackFrost
Super Member
1 year ago
Reply to  Fansince1971

Fine. If Ohtani decides on his own to leave after 2023 more power to him.

We’ll keep him for 2023 (hopefully with a new owner and new GM) with the new mojo and do everything to win and make the playoffs. I think the new World Series champs Astros will be fat and happy from their recent win and will be ripe for a hangover/letdown.

If and when the Angels make the playoffs next season the signing of Ohtani will go from basically unlikely to more than likely.

gitchogritchoffmypettis
Legend
Reply to  JackFrost

But why do I want Ohtani on the team after say 2026?

Have we learned nothing the last 10 years?

Senator_John_Blutarsky
Legend
Reply to  Angelstan

Wait – if we trade with the Giants we could get Wilson back!!!!!

WallyChuckChili
Legend
1 year ago

I thought we were out on Wilson?

gitchogritchoffmypettis
Legend

OK. I’ll bight.

No, we’re out on Beuhrle…. but Granderson may still be avails.

red floyd
Legend
1 year ago

What do you think it would take to get him?

gitchogritchoffmypettis
Legend
Reply to  red floyd

A Klondike bar.

Dogface1956
Trusted Member
1 year ago

Theme song my favorite has to be Dragnet, a classic. Dum, Da, Dum, Dum.

red floyd
Legend
1 year ago
Reply to  Dogface1956

The story you are about to see is true. The names have been changed to protect the innocent. Of course, since Arte and Andrew aren’t innocent, we’ll keep their names!

Dogface1956
Trusted Member
1 year ago
Reply to  red floyd

Joe Friday would have taken care of Artie a long time ago, he put up with no shit on his watch.

red floyd
Legend
1 year ago
Reply to  Dogface1956

comment image

Dogface1956
Trusted Member
1 year ago
Reply to  red floyd

Never been high in my life, but I have been accused of being “far out.”

Jim Atkins
Super Member
1 year ago
Reply to  red floyd

The Blueboy episode!!!!

Dogface1956
Trusted Member
1 year ago
Reply to  Jim Atkins

My favorite or the kids that where ripping off markets and sporting good stores because they were going set up a new society on the channel islands. Classic Joe Friday.

BannedInLA
Super Member
1 year ago

I wonder if Nevin has any ‘juice’ vis-a-vis coaching positions?

And yes, I look for any excuse to use vis-a-vis in a sentence.

gitchogritchoffmypettis
Legend
Reply to  BannedInLA

PTP needs to adjudicate vis a vis the confluence of factors and base line outcome expectations for a myriad of stake holders.

BannedInLA
Super Member
1 year ago

Touche’

Eric_in_Portland
Legend
1 year ago
Reply to  BannedInLA

you used it, ipso facto you’re a smart’un

FungoAle
Super Member
1 year ago

Not that he was ever in consideration, Bruce Bochy to manage the Rangers. Good hire.

gitchogritchoffmypettis
Legend
Reply to  FungoAle

Bummer.

RexFregosi
Super Member
1 year ago

not good

Twebur
Legend
1 year ago
Reply to  FungoAle

Could’a? Would’a?
Should’a….yes we should have tried to hire him over Nevin

Last edited 1 year ago by Twebur
Senator_John_Blutarsky
Legend
Reply to  Twebur

Nevin is a FOP (Friend of Perry). Maddon was not.

Eric_in_Portland
Legend
1 year ago

yes, the Astros drafted great players but we remember they were able to because they deliberately tanked, getting the first pick in 2012 and 2013 and 2014 and then the second pick in 2015.

Of course not all the top picks pan out. Still, Correa and Bregman helped a lot.

Looking over all the picks from those days I see that, in fact, they had many “failures”, too. So now I’m leaning back to the draft position helped but did not create all that much of an imbalance. Brady Aiken didn’t sign with them, Mark Appel didn’t turn into an All-Star. Hmmm…I feel all gitchy looking at actual players and their numbers and not jumping into my initial perceptions.

gitchogritchoffmypettis
Legend

Yup. The tank just doesn’t work all that well. Even less so now. When the Astros did it they were generally in a one team race to the bottom, the Cubs kinda did it too but were far less committed. As soon as a couple other teams started doing the “full rebuild” dance it just became less beneficial.

What really chaps my hide is that, the cost of a guy like Sean Burnett aside, just the cost of a top 5 1st round pick today….. If you took the difference between the slot value of #1 and #6 and invested that in research and salaries for guys who can find you value in MLB cast aways you’d come out miles and miles ahead.

Altuve, McCormick, Maldonado, Pena, Alvarez, Diaz, Valdez, Urquidy, Javier, Garcia, Montero, Maton, Neris, Pressly…. none of them had anything to do with draft pedigree or being a top Intl FA like Guriel. Hell even Stanek… he was a busted 1st round pick.

Houston’s not good because they got some early early draft picks. They are good because they find meh players with shitty haircuts and bring out the killer in them.

This is why just getting Newownerz Da Unicorn to buy the team doesn’t just give me auto-shivers. I want the new guys to be cheap and evil enough to truly be cheap and evil the right way. “Just gives me mah Ohtani tug job with a side of pay roll bump lahk smart unicorn now! Mets now!” isn’t gonna lead to long term joy for this boy.

Cowboy26
Legend
1 year ago

They would be Jeff Luhnow & Mike Elias when they were still with the organization. Of the current roster, Only one starting pitcher and only about 1/2 of the bullpen and bench were acquired by Click. The Asstros are still very much Luhnow’s team despite his ignominious dismissal almost 3 years ago.

gitchogritchoffmypettis
Legend
Reply to  Cowboy26

Luhnow or Click. Doesn’t matter. They aren’t killing the AL because of 1st round picks they tanked to get. They are killing us because they find and develop cheap talent.

Cowboy26
Legend
1 year ago

They are killing the league because of developing primarily first round picks they drafted, trades they have made and international signings they have developed. Their later round picks ( 2nd round on) really haven’t contributed during their earlier World Series runs as these picks if they showed any value were used for trade fodder. This is the first of the recent Astros teams (2017 through 2022) that has enjoyed significant contributions to the rostered latter round picks from their own drafts. (Specifically Chaz McCormick (21st Round 2017) & Jeremy Pena (3rd Round 2018)) Prior to this year the few Astros later round picks that have hit such as Josh Rojas, Ramon Laureano & Patrick Sandoval were traded away for off season swaps or in season Deadline players.

But of course , as is true with all baseball teams, you can never really close the books on any drafts or UDFA/International signing until 10+ years from their inception.

h27kim
Trusted Member
1 year ago

Someone (I think it was Jeff Joiner) pointed out that the value of getting a higher pic is not just the higher pic, but the larger pool of slot money that you can use down the draft order. Curious if we can find good examples of that strategy (esp those that worked out well) from the “tanking” teams in the past decade or so.

Last edited 1 year ago by h27kim
Angelstan
Trusted Member
1 year ago

Something else is going on in Houston. They routinely pick up rejects from other teams or guys that are underperforming and suddenly become terrific there. If it was the same coaching staff and GM, you could give them credit. But it isn’t. Something is amiss.

Montero from Seattle is the latest example. The list goes back to Cole, Musgrove, Morton, Presley, and a host of others. They have the Midas touch on pitchers. Verlander just put up a statistical test at 39 that likely isn’t humanly possible. What’s the deal?

h27kim
Trusted Member
1 year ago
Reply to  Angelstan

Also, Dodgers’ MO–and, once upon a time, Angels (esp wrt bullpen).

Mikeal1st
Trusted Member
1 year ago
Reply to  Angelstan

Un-detectable anabolics?

Charles Sutton
Editor
Super Member
1 year ago
Reply to  Mikeal1st

Ha ha! “Team chemistry.”

Mikeal1st
Trusted Member
1 year ago
Reply to  Charles Sutton

HAH!

Angelstan
Trusted Member
1 year ago
Reply to  Mikeal1st

As they used to say, something in the water down there.

gitchogritchoffmypettis
Legend
Reply to  Angelstan

Crazy as it sounds, it’s mostly execution. Look at their pitch charts. they somehow manage to get guys they can teach and then get them to throw their best pitches in the most effective spots. Scouting, coaching, pitchers who will actually go to meetings and follow through on info…. it matters.

Dogface1956
Trusted Member
1 year ago

Didn’t they use some kind of computer program to analysis the pictures throwing motion and help them throw at the most optimum level. I seem to remember ready about why can’t we do that on Halo Heaven.

Cowboy26
Legend
1 year ago
Reply to  Dogface1956

We hired their bullpen coach, Doug White for one season as a pitching coach with mixed results. This past season Houstons long time pitching coach, Drew Strom left and took the job with the D backs and had some success in Arizona but not overwhelming.

So whatever the Astros do it must be a system wide thing

gitchogritchoffmypettis
Legend
Reply to  Cowboy26

From just a couple random things I’ve read over the years they just plain outwork most teams on all sides of the ball. They run like a football team. Meetings, video analysis, “installing” things that each player and pitcher is going to focus on doing… and players either do it or they get the Ken Giles treatment. And yes, they probably do it all through their system. And use steroids and sticky stuff. And cheat any other way they can because baseball team.

The Cardinals are similar from what I hear.

Cowboy26
Legend
1 year ago

Luhnow came from the Cardinals system which ultimately led to this: https://www.nytimes.com/2016/01/09/sports/baseball/former-cardinals-executive-christopher-correa-pleads-guilty-to-hacking-astros.html Apparently Luhnow didn’t think it was prudent to change his passwords when he moved to Houston. Of course no-one else at the Cardinals knew anything about this. Although MLB didnt agree. https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2017/jan/30/st-louis-cardinals-hacking-scandal-punishment-houston-astros-mlb But apparently the Cardinals Penance wasn’t enough of a penalty to deter Luhnow from his own cheating scandal.

gitchogritchoffmypettis
Legend
Reply to  Cowboy26

All baseball mans cheats.

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WallyChuckChili
Legend
1 year ago
Reply to  Dogface1956

Pine Tar

JackFrost
Super Member
1 year ago
Reply to  Angelstan

Perhaps they have found a more elaborate way to cheat than banging a trash can in the dugout ??

red floyd
Legend
1 year ago

Now our hitting coaches aren’t Mallee-able.

BannedInLA
Super Member
1 year ago
Reply to  red floyd

English majors everywhere are swooning over this post.

Cowboy26
Legend
1 year ago
Reply to  BannedInLA

I dont know I kind of cringed at Reeding this.

red floyd
Legend
1 year ago
Reply to  Cowboy26

I would Nevin make a bad pun!

Eric_in_Portland
Legend
1 year ago
Reply to  red floyd

as Dremble Wedge sang, “you Phil me with inertia”

DowningDude
Legend
1 year ago

weird dream last night. i was eating lunch with Shohei and he would ONLY eat Onion Tempura. Not the shrimp tempura, not that huge orange thing, not the string bean, not the broccoli … the ONION.

RexFregosi
Super Member
1 year ago
Reply to  DowningDude

I have a feeling it left a negative impression

gitchogritchoffmypettis
Legend
Reply to  RexFregosi

Can you imagine the thigh squeezing that would be going on here if he’d come out and said “I loved this last season, I had so much fun, it was fantastic, don’t change a thing!”?

BannedInLA
Super Member
1 year ago

He would then be accused of Mike Trout’ing carefree into the offseason.

Shoehei’s comments are perfectly rational BTW.

gitchogritchoffmypettis
Legend
Reply to  BannedInLA

Yeah. It boils down to “Player said it’s a lot more fun to win.” and everyone shits themselves. But is he gonna go play in Tampa for 6M a year? nope. It’s just a factor, like the extra distance from New York to Japan or the quality of Japanese food in Chicago or the difference between forty million and thirty two.

BannedInLA
Super Member
1 year ago

He’s in such a great position leverage wise. Peak of his playing powers and can essentially call his shot, IMO, between OC, LA, SF, SD or NY.

He’s getting a minimum of 200 million regardless. As you said, it comes down to ease of travel, food, entertainment, etc.

gitchogritchoffmypettis
Legend
Reply to  BannedInLA

I secretly hope Seattle choses to embrace the grenade of a ten year contract with Ohtani. I love him, but I also think he has 50M a year DH written all over his later years.

2GA2Join
Super Member
1 year ago

I agree with that last sentence, and have said that same thing too.
However at the same time, I do think that someone will be willing to overpay for Ohtani, so I do think it is possible to get a rather interesting set of players for return in a trade. I’m not saying it is guaranteed… just that I think it is possible. If we accept a crumby return, then well shucks.

gitchogritchoffmypettis
Legend
Reply to  2GA2Join

Oh yeah, we need to trade him. Why we would pay him 30M this year just to hope to pay him 400+ million after that when we have a lot of building to do just doesn’t make sense.

matthiasstephan
Super Member
1 year ago

Do you honestly think his arm falls off?

Even if it does (seems unlikely with as hard as he works), why wouldn’t he transition into a position player. The DH is only to save risk on his arm, right? He could play OF (as he did in Japan), with a rocket of an arm in RF.

gitchogritchoffmypettis
Legend

I don’t want to bet 40+ million a year (for several years) on that. I don’t want to pay him to be a very good two way player when he becomes a pretty good DH who COULD be an outfielder with a rocket arm and we just have never seen that yet.

Angelstan
Trusted Member
1 year ago
Reply to  BannedInLA

They fired the manager. There were a slew of injuries. The owner is now seeing the team. I expect Ohtani would say it was a weird year.

gitchogritchoffmypettis
Legend
Reply to  DowningDude

But what did this dream tell you, oh Joseph of the Hebrews, about how incredibly unhappy he is, how badly he needs to be on an East Coast team and how Arte is the monster to blame for this as well as inflation, high gas prices and the lowering quality of the common t-shirt?

Dogface1956
Trusted Member
1 year ago

My thoughts on the Astros vs. Yankees is that at the very least the team “I hate or the team I really hate” is going to lose.

halofansince1978
Super Member
1 year ago
Reply to  Dogface1956

Sports: The only place you’re allowed to hate…ain’t this fun!!

Dogface1956
Trusted Member
1 year ago

Hate when properly directed can be a powerful motivation, not that I hate anyone or anything I love all of gods creations.

red floyd
Legend
1 year ago
Reply to  Dogface1956

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Senator_John_Blutarsky
Legend

The speculation in DC is that the sale won’t close before the Winter Meetings

Cowboy26
Legend
1 year ago
Reply to  Jeff Joiner

If Jack Kent Cooke was willing to draft Magic at Buss behest even though the Laker deal wasn’t consummated than Arte can sure as hell take direction from Stan Kroenke or Steve Ballmer at the next trade deadline.