I am not happy, Angels fans. Not happy. Here are your links.
Well, Perry had himself a trade deadline. It wasn’t good, but it happened. Marsh got shipped out to Philly for a catching prospect. I hate this trade. More detail on hating it later today.
Oh and Thor got sent to Philly too, for OF ‘prospects’. STuff we wouldn’t need if, you know, Marsh was here.
D-Cell was sold to the Braves. It is a decent trade if you think it is a salary dump, which, it is really. Frees up money for a more balanced team.
What is more important is that Ohtani is still here. So, enjoy him the rest of the year as the Angels look to lose 100 games.
Oh yeah, there was a game yesterday, which the Angels won… somehow.
Trade time! Lots of trades to keep track of, so visit MLB Trade Rumors if I miss any.
Big one, Juan Soto and Josh Bell go to the Padres. Nats’ farm is now in the top 10. WOW.
Hosmer also goes to Boston, something the Angels should have done.
Oh yeah, Padres ALSO get Brandon Drury. Preller is making JeDi jelly.
Gallo to Dodgers. Watch them fix him. Also send Mitch White to the Blue Jays.
Whit Merryfield is now a Blue Jay. Now he has to get his shots.
Mahle is going to the Twins. Reds are tearing it all down.
St. Louis got Montgomery from the Yankees? That is weird.
Phillies get David Robertson from the Cubs.
Mariners male a move, get a catcher and pitcher from the Tigers.
Everyone made a move, except the Rockies. At least I can laugh at them to make me feel better about the Angels.
Anything I missed? Post below for upvotes.
Hey yall. Wanna watch something fun instead of just churning the same cream into green misery butter for another 20 min? Watch this YouTube video of the BatBros. They are guys who test bats…. that’s what they do. Tons and tons of bats.
But in this video get on a sportrack cage and they hit a bucket of High School balls, then a bucket of 2021 MLB balls, then a bucket of 2019 MLB balls to see how juiced the 2019 balls really are….
Just popped an ale, perfect timing
That is some serious hotness in the 2019 balls. The year Rendon has 126 RBIs and Pete Alonso popped 53 homers as a rookie.
if Trout and Rendon had played 100 games so far in 2022, we’d be looking at playing October – lots of bad injury mojo crushed this season more than the front office
Hearing Ward talk about possible nerve damage (from crashing into the wall) affecting his swing speed hurts, too. He was on fire. Having 100% Ward, Ohtani, 100% Trout, and Rendon at the top of the lineup was good while it lasted. The problem is, we didn’t have any depth to cover sufficiently once someone went down – including DFletch.
Doubtful. We saw Mike crushing and could not overcome the shallowness of the roster. LF, RF, SS, 2B, 1B and C are all subpar.
Right. But before Ward crashed into the wall we were 10 games over .500 and were one of the highest scoring teams. Things fell apart right after that and the lack of depth reared its hideous head.
Yeah. But a good GM plans to have almost all of his good players get hurt for most of the season. Then he plans for even more players to get hurt. He actually has like a 50 man roster ready to go.
And if injuries happen more than one year in a row that’s also got to be someone’s fault. It can’t just be really shitty luck.
was that a reply to me? I wasn’t implying luck was the only factor, which is why I said our lack of depth destroyed us, so I agree. The bad luck part is when you put money into a contract and that player becomes absent due to injury for years, that’s bad luck. If Juan Soto gets hurt, would folks say it was a bad trade? Probably. But how would anyone know that would happen? They went for it at the potential cost of depleting their depth. If he stays healthy, it could pay off. If not…they could become the Angels of 2023.
Yeah… I was just throwing some stupid your way. Sure, lack of depth destroyed us, but it destroys almost everyone who has a 50/50 or 60/40 roster. I was mungoing the idea that a team sucks, or an org sucks or a GM sucks because “depth” because almost every fanbase can complain about that… the main thing that saves most teams is rookies or has beens surprising. In our case, if Matt Duffy suddenly had a .700+ OPS etc.
But a team only gets a 25 man roster and MAYBE gets to stash some OK depth at AAA. It’s not like a GM can plan for 45% of his offense or pitching staff to be injured and still win.
I’ve been very high in the Fire Perry mantra because I think he’s made a mess of the big league club, but he’s dramatically improved the direction of the farm system. Now, the more I study prospect rankings lists, it’s very political and based on things like historical outcomes of other previous prospects in the same organization and scouting grades from when they were first identified. For example, everybody is in love with Dodger prospect Diego Cartya, but our own Edgar Quero produced a higher OPS at a younger age in the same league but he’s nowhere to be found on anybody’s radar. A lot of these prospect lists still have our old prospects at the top based on projections from two years ago.
Check it out but AA Rocket City is producing a winning and competitive culture. That’s why Sonny D and O’Hoppe went there right away, Low A IE is above .500, the long suffering Bees are also above .500. Tri City has been a wasteland but Zack Neto is already changing that. The kid can hit.
Most likely, the Angels will not get a ton of respect in farm rankings this year but I think they’re closed to mid tier than rock bottom under Eppler. Their farm won’t get respect until 2024 when some of these prospects become undeniable. In reality, O’Hoppe, Neto, Bush, Bachman, Quero should be too 100 prospects , with Joyce, DiCharia not far behind. But will the Baseball America people label them as such? Probably not.
Pitching down there is better thanks to the AA Coach Michael Wuertz teaching the slider. But if you watch the batters, they look more alert to pitch recognition than before which causes so many whiffs. Watch Jordyn Adam’s progression.
Unfortunately we still have not see that kind of development at the big league level. Is that a matter of talent in the players or talent in the coaching staff? Based on the offensive slumps of Trout, Ohtani, Rendon and Walsh, I can’t think it’s a talent issue, but superior scouting and implementation from coaching . That may be the hardest transaction by Perry.
Some of the other things that I think might seem crazy, but is not crazy, is that Perry’s trades yesterday might have been about building some kind of good will with other teams. The relationships of GMs and their willingness to trade with each other cannot be discounted. One thing is that I imagine Perry having friends around the league that do want him to succeed, so they might be willing to engage with Perry. However, since we don’t have a lot of talent in the minors our leverage is a lot lower than other clubs. I think in a couple of these trades, Perry has to take what he can get for an asset, even if its just salary relief. All of these GMs know that owners probably care about the bottom line first, so in a sense they are also doing Perry a favor by taking on his bad contract mistakes from the summer.
Everybody knows that Ohtani requires a haul in return. But if you do a solid for me now, maybe I do a solid for you later. Or multiple teams get involved to help you out. Who knows.
Another thing to consider is that we will never know the order of negotiation, only the order of when they closed, which are not always the same thing.
Also, not every team is invested in helping the Angels succeed. Maybe they want the Angels to keep crumbling so they can get Trout or Ohtani. Or even a prospect. Remember how nobody wanted to trade with the Lakers and support Kupchak because they saw breaks in the Lakers’ foundation and pounced. It took Rob Pelinka time to even make things happen again.
The trade value machine only looks at players versus other players, but does nothing to take into account any leverage in these transactions.
I’ve never been on the fire Perry train because I think GMs need time for their plans to come to fruition. And I think you may be right about his relationship savvy, because he pulled a bunch of baseball people from the Cardinals, Braves and Doyers. I can’t recall that happening with any of our past GMs. I know people are hugely impatient on this site…trout window…have to win now now now. It kinda makes me not want to read it. Like, give him some time.
You both may be right but I am also sure you are not right because, when I are fustrated like a little pink child, I get mad. And that makes me sad. Which makes me soooo mad. And then thoughts and possibilities that don’t add up to me shitting on the people I need to blame just piss me off.
Drowning in a self perpetuating cycle of mad-sad-mad-sad! At least a blog is a great place to dissipate a rage boner.
Boner Dissipation… my favorite feminist hardcore band.
Weren’t they a Folk Band at Woodstock?
They do need time. The ancient history Angel example is Harry Dalton, who was an absolute wizard in Baltimore building a system that sent tons of players to the Major Leagues. He engineered the Ryan trade, then had little immediate success. He did lay a foundation for the Angels system to produce, which took some time as Dick Walsh had left it in a sad state. Later, Buzzie Bavasi took all the credit for much of Dalton’s efforts. Dalton went to Milwaukee, who not long after, knocked the Angels out of the playoffs. I am not certain how much is too much time, but it seems to turn around a sorry franchise that has no interest in tanking in 18 months is asking a lot.
Thanks for the “ancient” history lesson. Just read Dalton’s Wikipedia page. Interesting he was responsible for Grich and Baylor.
It’s not the fans, Perry was hired to win, win now. It was not focused to embark on an organization overhaul to put some blueprint into place. That comes with the territory but needed to perform now. Per that charter, he has failed. Clearly has failed to acquire big league talent to help the club, 2nd year in a row. His team had 85 losses in 2021 and might hit the 95-100 loss mark this year, with baseball people from other organizations.
Good, informative post.
Wait. This is positive. You can’t do that!
All I know is the baseball gods kicked me in the dick for talking mad shit about Moniak for years…. now that shit bag’s on my doorstep.
Oh shit, your Moniak dream is coming true tonight as he is playing CF!
Just don’t strike out as much as Marsh
Perry the spin doctor.
All I read was blah blah and more blah from a guy trying to keep his job.
I’ll say it again. It’s not Perry just like it wasn’t Eppler or Dipoto. It’s Arte. Pure and simple. Ain’t nothing going to change until/unless he sells
I wish Perry would be strait forward and honest. Something like….
“Honestly, I thought we had a pretty solid team when I put it together in March. I knew Velazquez wouldn’t hit, but his defense would be valuable with our pitchers and we had the hitters through the line up to carry him. I just wish these players would do their jobs and actually hit, catch and throw. Nothing beyond what they have already shown they can do, I’m not living on a prayer here, just their norms. I also wish these guys would stop doing what ever it is they do to “get in shape” because it apparently turns their muscles and tendons into crepe paper. These dumbf**ks took a perfectly good roster to start the season and shagged it to death.
I also wish Arte would NEVER sign another contract over 150M again, and I wish the fans wouldn’t demand that he does. It makes my job difficult. It would also be cool to not be saddled with a broken down has been for a manager who big times me instead of doing what I tell him to do with the roster, so then I have to fire him and let his rooster boy friend manage the rest of the season.
It would also be cool if some of you reporters did your jobs and asked some tough questions like “Is Mike Trout really a leader? And why is the guy always hurt?”, “Does it bother any of you guys that Matt Wise and Jeremy Reed are going to be hobos soon because you can’t stop sucking?” or “Aaron Loup, are you a drunken f*** up?” instead of just trying to convince me I need to trade Ohtani to the Dodgers or Yankees for a bag of balls.
And I want to take a second to give the fans a special message from my heart. I’d just like to let CoachDad and Jr GM know they can go f*** themselves. My plan was good. If we could just get players to, you know, play, it would’ve been a pretty good season. I worked for Alex Anthropoulos in very successful organizations for years and none of you can even carry the jock of the guy who carries my jock when it comes to actual knowledge and experience. So eat a bag of dicks.
Thank you. God bless you all, and God bless America,”
that wouldn’t be accurate, however. Straightforward and honest would be more like “the owner wouldn’t let me spend past a certain amount so I had to fill the roster with scrubs we picked up from the Yankees because I had my reasons to think if they’d been Yankees they must be good. Cashman told me so. Also, I knew that every team has injuries so we needed depth but I couldn’t figure out where to find it.”
That’s sounds more realistic
Perry Minasian is digging a hole for himself that he may not recover from. Arte sells the team and PTP is out on the blank alone as Arte will not have his back. Arte keeps the team and if things don’t work out PTP is out at the end of the blank, sword to his back wondering wtf, where is Arte? Arte has his fall guy set up to take the fall.
I think that PTP is not a salesman enough. With as many contenders trying to make the Playoffs and needing pitching, it seems to me we did not get enough for Thor.
Offing Iglesias was odd in that he was doing his career pattern, every other year. When he was inked to the contract that was not an Arte type deal. Arte has never allowed a relief pitcher to be signed for big money. So now we will be back to picking up scrubs for the pen and hoping for the best. If the money used for D-Cell goes elsewhere, say Ohtani for now, that leaves nothing for the pen. With Iggy I believe that it was coaching that once again choked the chicken and could not get their star relief pitcher back on track.
If you are not a Minasian camper, then look no further than the strange, timed release of another Iglesias. We really needed a SS, and the one we released is having a very decent year is Colorado this season. He put Fletcher at SS and was unable to see that Fletcher was going to get injured playing at SS. If GPB could see last off season and explaining here that Fletcher was not going to hold up playing SS why then GPB either got lucky predicting it or the big-league GM missed seeing that coming. By releasing Iglesias early last season nothing was accomplished as no money was saved and Iglesias was not going to get a raise and at best another one-year contract. As for Fletcher, he is the best fielding 2B in the game and can be a most capable hitter as we have seen in the past, so keep him there.
By trading Marsh PTP showed very little confidence in his coaching staff. Marsh had lost all of his confidence in the last month. His problem was twofold. His hands and his elbow placement during his swing. I am not an MLB batting coach, only taught young kids through Jr. College kids batting. All LH hitting players on the Angels have had the same issues this season. The opposing pitchers start off high and in, followed by low and away. Other teams have picked up on where the batters set up, to far off the plate, and unable to keep their head and eyes on the pitch and unable to have a more compact swing by keeping the hands leading with the hips turning and elbow in towards the body. They all are bending at the waist and extending the arms.
Is Perry Minasian learning as he goes? Of course, he is and I would not want him around if he wasn’t. We all learn as we go along and that is what finding success is all about. PTP had the whole works blow up on him this season. How did Iggy do? Or Tepera and Loup? Trout and Rendon? Fletcher and Ward? How about Marsh and Adell? Walsh and Stassi? So. you see not all can be laid on PTP. But Minasian did put together a decent starting staff, although I still think there is one pitcher that deserves a few starts that has not received his chance this season, but it may come about now.
Do Joe need to go? I believe he did. On a daily basis not one player new what line up was coming and what was expected of them. He showed lack of leadership and that showed in so many ways, such as not getting his face in the umpires faces and backing his players. Pulling pitchers to early. “Resting” players way to much and claiming that it would help cut down on injuries and have players rested at the end of the season. By reliving Joe of his responsibilities change things, no. But then Joe wasn’t returning next year anyway.
Perry but together a roster based on need and also based on affordability. How could anyone anticipate that Wade would be so terrible on the bases, or Squid could not hit ML pitching, or Duffy being injured. I would have used some of the scrubs he used as they were the same players that kept our heads above .500 last season. They fit the budget too. Any and every GM has his hands full rounding out a roster that will work out, especially if you only have a few bucks to work with.
We still have the jury out on the 2021 draft results and it’s way too early to objectively access what this year’s draft will bring, but they can’t be any worse than what past drafts have accomplished.
To grade Perry Minasian on a year and a half of work in as short of a timetable of work as there has been is tough, but at this point I will give him a C+. Working for Arte is not easy. Working for a owner who is as involved as Arte is in day to day running of the team is impossible. And with the obstacles in the way in terms of contracts and players return on those contracts is something very few would take on.
How would you approach this coming off season if you had the job? Should Perry stay or go? Do you trust Arte to do the right things to turn all this around? Do you want Perry’s job really? Why?
Agree with your third paragraph Grandpa. I had said this much yesterday. In short, the Closer is a volatile position. Very few if any (not named Josh Hader) are good year after year after year. So, Raisel has had a bad year. This is the life of a Closer. I fully expect him to be excellent again next year. He will just be doing it for the Braves and not for us.
Perry threw a bone to his old team. Funny how people act like they were doing us a favor, by taking him off our hands, lol.
Im ok with trading Raisel. You cant have a good season every other year if your making the type of money that Iglesias was making. More money you make, higher the expectations. Same thing can be said about Loup and Tepera. Them 3 alone have lost a lot games for the Angels this season, a lot.
Closers are frosting on the cake. Our cooks are out sick, our oven doesn’t work and we’re short on ingredients…this cake has bigger issues.
Get rid of the contract we can move. If we get a young functional pitcher out of it down the line… bonus.
Good point about the salary and expectations. I agree.
But the fact remains that closers run hot and cold, thus it will not be easy to find a cheap and truly reliable option there.
There are also a LOT of Closers who are good for a while and then flame out (ie…Ernesto Fieiri). We certainly don’t need a closer this year, certainly don’t need to pay a ton to Raisel who is now questionable (don’t make it seem like a guarantee he’ll be back to good again next year). I’d rather see us save the money, get a prospect, use the money saved to re-sign Ohtani or sign additional FA’s this offseason.
Interesting. A lot of folks wanted him traded. Once he was traded, folks are disappointed. A lot of folks wished to sign Ohtani. In order to do this, we had to free some payroll. We do this and folks are disappointed. Perhaps we were in a no-win situation?
Perhaps our 2023 closer will be Ben Joyce (if he can throw strikes and his arm doesn’t fall off first)?
Iglesias is actually good this year. He has two blown saves and all of his rate stats are strong AF still. That’s why the Braves traded for him.
You think they are eyeing Joyce for 2023? Seems to be someone you’d like to pull up sooner than later…as long as he can throw strikes. He can’t throw any harder and that might not last forever.
I think they plan to bring a pile of 2021 arms to camp this March for pen auditions. It’s what I’d do.
I agree with you. It is a good thing to lock up a closer. He was a good investment because even Hader didn’t have a track record as long as Iggy. BUT, two issues:
First. You can only trade what other teams want for what other teams are willing to give you. A fact most Angel fans seem totally unable to grasp over the fifteen years I’ve been reading their online comments.
Second, as some have stated as part of their doomer mantra, shit teams don’t need a closer.
Just about everyone who has been pissing about Iglesias all season hasn’t really looked at his current stats compared to other closers, much less what he’s likely to do over 3 years. It’s all “his fastball’s lost a tick” as he Ks 12 per 9 and has a 1 WHIP.
But Iggy, to spite his contract, still had value, so the Braves took him. His value TO US was lowered though because, if your team isn’t gonna have 50 save situations a year, why pay a closer?
It wasn’t stupid to sign Iggy because we were trying to create a strong bullpen. It also wasn’t a mistake to trade Iggy now that we see that the team sucks well beyond a blow pen. What will be totally boner is to admit we need a rebuild to the point that we no longer need a closer…. and then not rebuild.
Agreed. Our needs change as the years move on and paying a bunch for a closer isn’t (unfortunately) at the top of our list at this point. Made sense when the future was bright, but now we have too many holes to fill…again.
Thing about closer stats…they don’t mean as much as it seems. Look at Percival. If he had a 2 run lead and Bonds was up, he didn’t care about his ERA/WHIP or anything else. He just cared about the S. Throw a fastball at 98 and if he hits it out, fine. Percy knew he still had another out to work with. The mental game of a closer is a unique thing that is tough to quantify. I’m not sure if Iggy hasn’t lost that mental edge.
You’re right about us not needing a closer now, but that other goop?…Um. Bullshit.
Saying stats don’t matter is up there with guy who declares his kid is smart…. he just isn’t good at taking tests…. you know, the things that measure knowledge and intelligence.
I mean, here….
Thing about closer stats…they don’t mean as much as it seems. Look at Iglesias. If he had a 2 run lead and Judge was up, he didn’t care about his ERA/WHIP or anything else. He just cared about the S. Throw a fastball at 98 and if he hits it out, fine. Iglesias knew he still had another out to work with. The mental game of a closer is a unique thing that is tough to quantify.
The above would actually be THE COMPLAINT people make about one closer (Iggy) as they compliment another closer (Percy, their man crush). All the while, those statistics that don’t matter in a what are usually compressed 20 pitch appearances all show Iggy as better than Sir Percy.
I think Iggy has a chance to get back to being good, but he doesn’t feel very reliable these days.
In 2019, he lost 12 games and had an ERA of 4.16. Percy never lost anywhere close to 12 games in a year. 2020 was Covid nonsense. 2022, Iggy is struggling. So, he was good last year and essentially back in 2016-2018. The Braves are hoping he regains that form, while there is a real risk his best days are behind him.
He has 6 losses and an ERA over 4 this year so far. Prime Percy from 2001 to 2004 never had 6 losses in a year and never had an ERA over 4. So yea, maybe stats do matter. Like this…
In less than 8 years, Iggy has 43 losses and 156 saves. In 14 years, Percy had…43 losses and 358 saves. So, maybe Iggy will get 200 more saves and not lose a single game in the next 6 years to match that because, as you say, Iggy is better than Sir Percy.
So when do you head out to Philly to start your coaching gig?
The two biggest problems are we have a meddling owner who won’t spend what it takes to compete, and probably the weakest least knowledgeable GM intern in quite a while who won’t/can’t tell him to back off and what needs to be done. No winners are possible with this tandem running the show.
The Padres fan site is one Google search away…. where they were actually saying that about AJ Preller about six years ago.
May God give you for every storm, a rainbow,
For every tear, a smile,
For every care, a promise,
And a blessing in each trial.
For every problem life sends,
A faithful friend to share,
For every sigh, a sweet song,
And an answer for each prayer.
Chills. RIP Vin
Vin Scully, ah, the way he called a game, you felt that you were there, could actually see the action on the field, with clarity and immediacy.
He voice rang clear, like a bell, calling the plays, telling stories, a love of baseball everywhere evident in his expressions and descriptions.
I guess I love Vin Scully. It’s hard to say this considering I never met the man and know nothing of his personal life.
But for someone to give me, as a kid and as a man, an astounding appreciation for the beauty and traditions of baseball, I can’t help but feel a deep sense of gratitude and appreciation.
So it is with deep sadness that we recognize the passing of a man who gave us so much of the game that we love and lived most of our lives….
RIP Vin Scully
Just wow and what a life lived! I gave the news to a dear friend of mine who played for the Dodgers in the 80s and had many long conversations with him as he was a Scully favorite. He said he would miss those talks and while I’m a little envious of never having that opportunity, strangely I still FEEL like I knew him as well.
Doyer guy. Dead. OK.
After 1-4 the Padres lineup looks a little Meh especially now that Voit has been bounced back to Washington. The Doyers still seem much much deeper 1-9.
Minasian tried to clean up some of his worst mistakes, an overpaid Iglesias and a wasted second round pick for a diminished Thor. We don’t need an intern who is learning on the job.
Nobody expected Thor to be vintage Thor after just coming back from TJ surgery. Even Ohtani took an extra year to start getting back into form. Maybe The Angels sign him in the off season and he improves and gets stronger.
If we signed the semi-not recovered version for $21M per – what’s the new Thor 3.0 going to cost?
Not cheap. Probably going to look for a 4 to 5 yr deal with an AAV of at least 28m, probably closer to 32m. At least that is where his agent will be.
Perry better start selling apples and pencils on the street corner to come up with that amount of coin.
I did expect a dominating version seeing how we gave up draft capital. He was not that and I don’t see Syndergaard getting more that $15-17M per season. Let’s see how he navigates the rest of the year but I am good with never seeing the guy again.
The AAV was high because it was a 1-year deal, and a chance for Thor to rebuild value. He’s a good #2-3 type guy now, and he should settle right into a 3-4 year at 15-17 AAV. Which isn’t a bad type contract. I think the Angels will be invdiscussions with him over the offseason.
A healthy Fletcher helps too with solidfying the infield. Duffy being hurt again sucks too as he was a plug in play all over the infield.
This offseason will be one of the biggest in memory. We have Upton contract off the books, and realeased a lot of money via our trades. If the draft pick pitchers start to put it together, we get C-Rod back, and a few additions, I feel we will be ok for a small 1-2 year window.
Ooh I forgot about C Rod! He sure looked like he had a bright future. Hope he returns to form.
Disagree. I expected his average velocity to be a lot higher considering he was 2+ years away from TJS and still relatively young. Many pitchers have comeback with greater velocity in a shorter period of time . Jacob DeGrom, Yu Darvish Stephen Strasburg, Zach Wheeler, Charlie Morton, and of course Justin Verlander are just a handful of examples. And Verlander is much much older.
The question is whether its possible for him to increase his velocity in the next couple of years. Ohtani has proven this is possible. So has old man Verlander. If the Angels can resign him for a much lower AAV this could be a steal.
I would love to have him at 15m to 18m AAV, at 25m+ AAV I think the cost is too high for The Angels budget.
I don’t really see anyone lining up to pay him 25M AAV. I could be totally wrong…. only takes one team…. blah blah. But I think your 15-18M is just about where most GMs… err, I mean POBOs…. will land. Maybe less.
I sensed that Thor would have a great next season after adjusting to TJ surgery.
Was sure hoping we could resign him for around 10 mil….
Ohhhh…. you spoke my inner secret thoughts. His sinker actually looks really good. His off speed stuff was also generally locating well. It’s his first season back from TJS. If he picks up say 3MPH of velocity he could be pretty effective again. And I liked the cut of his jib. 3 years 30-40M or something? I’d be really glad to get that and see what happens if the floor is what we saw this year.
Wasted 2nd round pick? No.
Essentially, we ended up using that 2nd round pick on Mickey Moniak and Jadiel Sanchez.
Actually, we spent a 2nd round pick on 1 year of reliable mid rotation starting pitcher…. which is also more than most 2nd round picks produce in most cases.
True. Full edit: We spent a 2nd round pick for 3/4 of a season with a reliable starting pitcher and Mickey Moniak and Jadiel Sanchez. We’d have to hit pretty big with that 2nd round pick to beat that payout.
Dude. You better turn in an “If I Were Perry” this off season. I can’t wait to see what a real man of mental stuff comes up with as apposed to an “intern”.
IIWPM. One of the best things about CtPG. Everyone gets a chance to show everyone else how smart the brain connected to the mouth is.
Dan Patrick talked about how he could see the Angels giving Ohtani 60/mil a year based on him being a 2 way player, as they’d likely pay 30 mil/yr for two individuals instead who had equal talent to his at either position.
Do you realize how bad it would be for the franchise to tie-up $60M in annual payroll for one player?
It’s not my money.
Its not your money, it’s Arte’s. And Arte will just pull $30M away from some other part of the team so its status quo for the budget.
If Arte says “we will raise our payroll to accommodate a historic player” cool. But he has shown he wont.
Do we realize Dan Patrick is a dumbshit who probably can’t name 7 guys on our team? And do we realize that no POGBOM is gonna offer that contract unless it’s like for 3 years.
A DH and a guy who starts every six days. He’s valuable but not at that price.
And how long can we reasonably expect him to be available to perform at his current level on both sides of the ball?
I would give it another 3 years. The shoulder and elbow issues may come into play by then, thereby greatly affecting the pitching side of his play. He would then transition to being a DH full-time.
Which is unfortunate, because while I marvel at his power, I think Ohtani is better as a pitcher than a hitter.
Dan Patrick is delusional.
The problem with this thinking is that doing what Ohtani is currently doing is certainly going to fall victim to “diminishing returns.” Because there is no real precedent for this (and no Ruth, did not come close to what Shohei is doing, in fact he gave up being a two way player very early in that endeavor) it is hard to say how long his body will allow him to keep doing it… It would be reasonable to expect that at some point, maybe in three years, maybe in four, his body will rebel and at least one skill will suffer significantly.
If so, it may become necessary for Shohei to “pick one” and go with it. At that point if you are locked into a long term deal that pays for both you will be screwed. Unless of course the contract is unique and stipulates payment based upon two-way participation to some extent. In short, it could be an incentive laden contract with a large guaranteed base.
I wonder if down the road, when being a two-way player starts taking it’s toll, Ohtani would consider switching to a reliever. Would that be any less stressful?
…except he can’t pitch as often as other pitchers and usually doesn’t field (DH). So, perhaps he should be paid as 4/5 of a top pitcher’s salary and add a DH, rather than every day player?
Still a ton of money
We should just get two 8-7 pitchers for $30MM each.
We cleared 37+ million in payroll yesterday.
That is about what it will take to sign Ohtani.
That is the only thing that makes any sense.
We got zero Major League players in return.
Unless of course you count Chavez…I don’t.
Look for an Ohtani extension coming soon!!
Sure, Arte cleared money to sign Ohtani. What Arte confirmed he isn’t doing is expanding payroll. So we’ll have Ohtani, Trout and Rendon surrounded by the likes of Goose, Squid and other non-descript AAAA players.
All that Perry accomplished thus far was to continue the cycle of the last 6+ years.
The only hope now is for Ohtani to tell Arte and Perry that he intends to test the open market after next season.
RE: What Arte confirmed he isn’t doing is expanding payroll.
He’s got to do something to put a winner on the field. Part of keeping Ohtani is ensuring he gets Ohtani to the playoffs.
RE: Part of keeping Ohtani is ensuring he gets Ohtani to the playoffs
Source: Ohtani’s lips. saying he wants to be on a winning team.
Ball is in your court. waiting for your source……..
Arte’s own actions. He’s shedding salary obligations to hopefully give the money to Ohtani. If Arte was going to “be different” he could have kept Raisel and wrote the big check to Ohtani.
BTW: I understand Ohtani wants to win. Yes, he said he wants to win. But how does anything that occurred in the past 24 hours put a winner on the field in 2023?
The point remains if Ohtani wants to win consistently and get paid massive amounts of cash, it ain’t going to be on an Arte owned franchise.
RE: BTW – totally true. I hear ya.
All I know is my dad can kick both your dad’s asses. Also, no way Louis Lane can have sex with Superman.
He could shed salary obligations and still increase payroll to give Ohtani his big payday. They’re not mutually exclusive.
(Funny, i’m now “arguing” for the guy I was just arguing against….)
You’re right in your statement, but we were talking about the ability to build around the salary black hole of Trout, Ohtani and Rendon. Just those three players will pretty much blow our entire budget and leave us with Navapile type players to fill in the rest of the team. In other words, we won’t build a winner.
My point was that Arte will have to increase budget significantly to actually build a winner and it starts with a more serious run at international talent and building the farm along with other higher profile* injections.
DD, I think you have it nailed. Arte’s words don’t matter, his actions are the only real indicator and there’s no reason to believe that he changes his SOP. I do believe he will make a strong effort to sign Ohtani but then won’t expand beyond he traditional budget constraints and that roster will be even more top heavy. Not sure how it gets fixed as the Trout and Rendon contracts are long term burdens at this point.
I read somewhere where someone pointed out that this entire thing could end up just jockeying to “save face.” Which is the worst thing for us the fans, who want to see wins.
What I mean is that Arte/Perry are setting next season up now so that Ohtani is still around to sign. They clear some payroll to show good intentions. They sign a few players this winter to show “hey, we want to win.” Then a year from now, we totally lose out on Ohtani to the Dodgers who pay him $500MM (while we offer $350MM). Then Arte/Perry can claim to the fans “boo-hoo, we made a strong attempt to keep the player, we’re not the bad guys who lost Ohtani, we tried, but he wanted to leave, it wasn’t our fault, etc”.
Let’s hope so. Whenever I see someone waste my eyeballs on a vague theory of Moreno Malvado’s evil plan for baseball evil I hope it happens. I’m always down to see how deep a sadsack really goes…. like the James Cameron of ineffectual negativity.
Well, I don’t mean for it to sound like some moustache-twirling sinister plot, but there is something to be said about PR.
Perry probably doesn’t want to go down in history as “the guy who traded away Babe Ruth.”
And Arte doesn’t want to go down in history as “the guy who decided to let Babe Ruth go.”
If we get outbid by the Dodgers, everyone can blame the lack of a salary cap, of Ohtani wanting to leave, etc etc.
Oh no sir. I am the one who always sees the sinister plot… me and Andrew.
Even if Ohtani becomes the Angels highest AAV player, there remains no evidence to suggest there’s a clear path to 2023 competitiveness.
One thing bugged me more than anything yesterday (I’m ok with the trades).
It’s the nugget that said the Phillies were already over one luxury tax threshold.
Wish Arte would get the message that to win, he needs a bigger payroll.
Go get a real SS and real SP this winter.
If he really cared, all Arte needs to do is look at the payroll San Diego added
yep. one thing i misjudged about Arte was his willingness to do whatever it takes to win – i thought he had a consuming desire to win at all costs and fixate on the WS Trophy – what better bright, shiny toy is better than that?
In 2004 i thought we had George Steinbrenner. Crazy aggressive.
His ownership just seems content to compete for division titles.
Unfortunately ultra competitive Arte was consumed by Big Splash Arte.
Wasn’t he trying to do just that when he gave those massive contracts to Pujols and Wilson in one year, then Hamilton the next? He wanted Greinke at first, and when that didn’t pan out, instead of keeping his money, he threw it at Hamilton.
I don’t think he wanted Pujols for 10 years just for the glory of division titles. I would argue that getting Pujols is “his willingness to do whatever it takes to win.”
Then he gave Trout that massive extension. After getting negative ROIs on Pujols, Wilson, Hamilton, etc., Arte could have been gun shy at that stage and ordered his management to trade Trout instead before his looming, then-groundbreaking contract extension. But he did not. They sat with his agent and gave Trout what he wanted.
Same thing happened again in the 2019 offseason. Gerrit Cole was the big target, and when he didn’t get him, he didn’t sit pat. He got Rendon instead.
If not for nothing, Arte can spend and WILL spend.
The problem is, his big signings didn’t pan out. He didn’t invest properly in his drafting and scouting in augmenting failed signings by having cheap talent up in the pipeline. I would argue that getting Mike Trout in the draft was pure luck. And even when he had that cheap, superstar talent – Mike Trout in his rookie contract, and Ohtani in this current contract – the other moves he’s made didn’t pan out (Upton, Rendon so far, etc.)
If there were times he seemed gun-shy on spending money, I actually don’t blame him. He’s been burned multiple times before, albeit mostly his own fault. There are a lot of things he can be blamed for for the ugly direction this team has taken, but not spending is really not one of them, or much lower on the list.
yes agree, he’s been agressive and has spent, we are in Top 10 of spending always. He was willing to get Cole too.
And yes, it would have helped immensly if he had picked better players to invest in than Wilson/Pujols/Hamilton/Wells etc.
My point is he needs to spend more and be in Top 3. He seems intent on not exceeding the luxury tax thresholds.
That’s his budget. His budget isn’t to spend what it takes to get to the WS.
To win, he needs to get players and that will mean exceeding the thresholds
I don’t think he “needs” to be in top 3. The problem is that he tries to both spend aggressively (where it’s visible) and pinch pennies (where it is not). The end result is that we wind up with a Potemkin Village–except this one has real, expensive adornments (but still built on shitty, fake foundations). Worst of both worlds: if you want to be cheap, then be cheap but try to run the ship more efficiently. If you want to spend, spend a little bit more so that the expenses actually count when it matters. But Arte falls between the two stools–sort of reverse goldilocks problem: doing everything just wrong enough so that nothing really works.
Agreed. Essentially, he’s spent money – just not in the right places. Also, some bad luck has to be thrown in – like Rendon. Maybe we could’ve expected some regression, but not a complete absence.
Arte has been aggressively foolish. He knew Hamilton’s history and still gave him 5 years. (As a side note Hamilton’s time here did coincide with Kay’s “activities”)
Arte was the one who bought into all the Pujols hype and gave the guy with the concerns over his true age a 10 year contract.
Arte’s weaknesses created the current situation. I just don’t trust him to make smart monetary decisions going forward, but as noted above “it’s not my money”.
Arte exceeded the CBT only once in his 20 years of ownership while running the minor league system in the ground and almost completely ignoring the international free agent market. (Thank You Roberto Baldoquin) That is not someone who is consumed to win at all costs.
You know who’s always in it to win at all costs? People who don’t have to pay the freight or take the punches.
I can’t tell, do people around here think the Yankees, Red Sox and Dodgers just ignore making a profit to “WIN!”? Cause no, they don’t. Let’s see what the Padres look like in 8 years…. I plan to enjoy it, but that could be the ugliest post binge come down I ever see.
No one wants to consider the financials, to be in the top 3 payrolls that money has to come from somewhere, and most here assume Arte is hauling home truckloads of money year after year, based on what? A leaked financial statement of a team that is much better run than the Angels?
All I ever seem to read is “CHEAP Arte can afford it!”.
Too many people think you can just print money or he doesn’t have any other expenses.
I didn’t read any of this because I just know that Arte doesn’t care about winning championships. Your facts are mushy compared to my belief that I know what I’m talking about.
All kidding aside, I am pretty sure there is a number that allows the business to, you know, remain a business instead of a glorified beanie baby collection or street racing car and he won’t really go past it because he’s not 10 years old.
Well, we did get a cartoon version of Steinbrenner: he certainly didn’t lack a willingness to throw money at the stars he liked…as long as they were whom he liked and on his own terms. He has never been exactly “cheap,” in the literal sense anyways. The problem has always been the misplaced priorities: the money is there, but it has to be spent on flashy signings that Arte likes and, to fund these, less visible side of baseball operations can be underfunded attitude. To be fair, this “sells,” up to a point: most people know only Trout and Ohtani. Even knowing who mid ranking stars are takes a certain degree of attention. The ranks of fans who pay attention to the draft or the minors, let alone the bench makeup, are small. BUT the catch is that, when the team loses, even casual fans know, and the fact that the team is losing with superstars compounds the problem–b/c people around the world who tune in just to watch Ohtani can see a loser team, even if they have no sense of who the other 25 guys are or might be. I don’t think consistently fielding a losing team with superstars that has a large (b/c of the commitments to the stars) but not “large enough” (b/c of “economizing” on less visible aspects of running a baseball team) works in the medium to long run even for the bottom line–i wonder how team’s profitability has been changing since 2014. Surely, something has to change, right? (But then, what do I know–the Cubs were run like this for a full century–never a “poor” team, certainly with well-paid stars, but never quite “right” as an organization for long, long time…)
Actually, if Arte really really cared for real he’d look at the IndiGuards, Brewers, Cardinals, Braves, Twins, Astros, Rays etc and realize all he has to do is copy them…. but have 20-30% more money than they do to spend on payroll and still turn a profit.
Was it really that much? It looks like they only added about $10 million, while still having to pay a significant portion of Hosmer’s deal. Wil Myers comes off next year, so that’s $22+ Million. With their payroll already over $200 million looking at next season, I don’t think it will be a stretch even with Soto getting a big raise – and they have 3 stretch drives to convince him to stay.
We only shed $16 mil. Thor was coming off the books anyway. The moves seem to have been made to save Arte money for the rest of this year. I think it was Jeff who last night said we have no idea if Arte will take this savings and apply it to 2023. I’m sceptical.
I’m too GA to look up the exact numbers but let’s say payroll *was* $190 mil. With the deals yesterday we’re down to @ $155 mil. With Trout and Rendon not playing that makes us, currently, an $85 mil team. We’re not going to win much at that level.