It is done. The dust has settled. The Angels have made some moves, so have others. Here’s what the staff here at CtPG has to say about the year’s Trade Deadline.
Jeff Joiner: Ok, the trade of Marsh came out of left field about as quickly as Marsh chasing a low liner. It was unexpected. However, for years I’ve posted trade ideas for a catcher and I’ve railed against how top heavy the offense is. Marsh looks overmatched by MLB pitching to me and likely Bourjos 2.0 so I’ll take a good hitting catcher for that all day. But Marsh has enough upside to make this comment look bad.
I think the Angels really missed a chance to add Hosmer and prospects. Hoz is a better player than Walsh and adding a Gore or Snell for next year would’ve easily justified taking on a salary of only $13 million. Or take on Meyers and get a prospect. Either way, it was short sighted not to buy some prospects when the chance was there.
I think the same short sightedness led to the team not adding cash to Thor to get a decent return. I’m fine with Iglesias being a salary dump, though I do hope Perry knows the Braves system well enough that Davidson is a usable piece.
John Henry Weitzel: Marsh Trade: Z–
F this trade, Perry should be fired for this. “Oh but we need a catcher.” Who cares about catchers?! Also, we have Stassi still, so we are giving up on him? “But long term!” Why Marsh? Why trade the only good defensive outfielder on the team who is still a rookie for a catching prospect that we can cross our fingers for? Adell I get, but now who will play CF so Trout can stay on the field for more than a month?!
Thor Trade: C
We weren’t getting much for Thor anyway as a rental, so 2 OF prospects make sense since we sabotaged the team last trade. He can come back, but won’t count on it.
D-Cell Trade: B
It is a salary dump, sure, and he will get better most likely, but getting a decent lefty arm and money back to make this team less top heavy is a good move. Depth is needed for the Angels and having now 10 SP options for next year is amazing. Just don’t send him on waivers like you did with Packy, Perry.
Jessica: This trade deadline was garbage but the Angels also had little to work with. I give the deadline an F overall. I mean, you can’t expect much from Thor so that was really a wash. Iglesias had some potential for a return but we got nothing really there as well. Marsh was traded for a catching PROSPECT that many are high on because he’s a top 100 baseball prospect. Well, Marsh was #38 overall last year so it really was a step down because Marsh proved he can handle it at the MLB level and was a top 5 defensive player in the outfield (and probably CF replacement for Trout in the near future). Sure, his bat was not there yet but he hasn’t reached his ceiling. Honestly, they potentially downgraded for 2023 and beyond unless O’Hoppe turns out to be an All Star or Gold Glove Winner.
Personally, I would have loved to see them dump Ohtani for a haul. Looking at what the Nats got and knowing the Angels would have received even more just makes me sad.
Turk’s Teeth: The only through-line I see among these three trade deadline exchanges is cost-cutting. Shorter Arte-to-Perry: “I’m not paying for this shit.” It feels like a set of spite trades to clear salary, and it’s clear that Minasian was not given much room to bolster prospect packages by sending cash back. The sunk cost of Rendon and Trout, along with Ohtani’s arbitration case, looms large – it’s obvious the GM is once again going to be working with very little to do much in the offseason.
The Marsh trade feels like Moreno just telling Perry to get this longhair off my field. Despite Marsh’s contact issues this season, I still liked his ceiling. He delivered 2 WAR with his glove alone in his first 162 games. OF defense has been a trouble spot for the team pre-Marsh, and now it’s measurably worse – not a great feature when you’re pitching-starved and need to help assist young rotation arms in every way possible. Moniak is arguably more contact-averse and injury-ridden than Marsh. Clear downgrade, and puts further pressure on Trout’s aging curve as he roams the field.
O’Hoppe is a nice prospect – a consensus top 100 guy among those I trust. It’ll be interesting to see how he gels with the new class at Rocket City, where the pitching reserves are building. I have no issue with his profile – the franchise needs a catcher. Only Edgar Quero (2-3 years away) fills that role, and O’Hoppe is probably 1-2 years from making an impact.
I don’t think much of Moniak or Sanchez – fourth OFs at best, Sanchez a role-player with maybe an Orlando Martinez like trajectory. Tucker Davidson looks like a long reliever and taxi squad arm. The most likely outcome for all three is they provide short-term organizational depth and wash out of the system in a couple years.
This trade deadline’s result is basically O’Hoppe and salary dumping, plus the premature subtraction of an elite defender in the outfield. The Angels are not a better team, but at least they failed fast on the Iglesias contract?
Charles Sutton: Perry has given new meaning to the phrase tear it all down. Moniak is less than Marsh. Chavez is less than Iglesias. Who knows if O’Hoppe will ever be better than Wallach? We got rid of a lot of salary. Hopefully the plan is to extend Ohtani with that money. I guess they might use it to acquire an actual Shortstop in the off season.
Rev Halofan: If O’Hoppe ever makes an All-Star team, today was a great day. So check back in July of 2028 and compare, otherwise the only palpable manifestation of today will be Angels pitchers missing Marsh in the outfield the next three or four seasons. Moniak is a defensive and offensive downgrade, a fourth OF, but a way to get Ward and Adell in the field every day. A big big hope would be Tucker Davidson is the sixth starter in Spring who is serviceable as a 4/5 during lean/injured times for the staff over the next few seasons, basically an off-brand Barria, not that we desperately needed one.
Rahul Setty: For me, this deadline was charitable at best. I’m glad the club escaped the Raisel Iglesias contract and can repurpose some funds, but I’m not convinced the other moves were necessary. To say Brandon Marsh has swing flaws is an understatement, but he’s young, coachable, an elite defender at the club’s biggest position of need (defensively, calm down heathens), and is on pace to produce average value despite striking out 36% of the time. No complaints with O’Hoppe—perhaps I’m privy to nationalism here, but I’m not convinced it’s enough for Marsh, let alone the positional headaches the trade yields. As for the remaining acquirees, well…facepalm.
Buster Olney on Ohtani
http://www.espn.com/video/clip/_/id/34351207
In the end, Perry probably sees the trade deadline as him replacing Marsh with Moniak, got back some pitchers for losing Thor and Iggy, and a couple of lotto tickets he hopes to cash in later.
His real prize was O’Hoppe. I’m hoping he is right. Because if O’Hoppe turns out to be the starting pitcher in 2023, beating out Stassi, and turns out to be a solid player – that’s one less position to be worried about, and one more selling point for Ohtani to stay: “See, the team IS getting better.”
*starting CATCHER, not starting pitcher.
Well here’s his starting at bat from tonights Trash pandas game. https://twitter.com/TaylorBlakeWard/status/1555758124388126720
I don’t disagree with this view in principle: in the medium term and beyond, these trades aren’t too bad.
But in the short to medium term, I don’t think it’s deniable that we created more holes than not, especially in positions where we are weak, eg OF. Not willing to absorb money probably did hurt the returns. These do not look to be moves by a team looking to be competitive in 2023 or 24.
As a couple days have passed, I checked back in with myself. I am still really disappointed about trading Marsh – a fun and exciting young player, under control for 6 seasons and excellent defender who just needs developing on the offense side. He is WAY more of a sure thing than O’Hoppe who probably has less than a 50% chance of ever playing at the major league level in the next 3 years much less contributing.
The rest of the moves were salary reductions which probably show where Arte’s mindset is.
To me, none of these moves made the Angels farm stronger and they clearly weakened the big league team. That’s a pretty awful trade deadline result.
My prediction- Marsh will be an Allstar within 3 seasons. Raisel will return to being a top-5 closer. And Thor will find his groove.
The Angels organization is just awful.
Seeing Marsh become that will be a stinger for sure.
I’ll start by saying for as crappy as the Angels have played, you have to consider outside of Trout and Ohtani, they had players other teams wanted. I’m not for salary dumping unless it helps immediate future. Adding money to Iggy or Thor could’ve improved the return. I get that Philly overpaid for Marsh, but he’s GG potential and heir to CF. So now it’s, let see what Adell can do. The fact that he’s not there everyday in LF worries me. Houston and Seattle got better and SP finally improved this year, but the offense tanked mid-May and on. So what is going to help this team get better next year? $ and trades? This was the time to properly set that up, and the Angels didn’t do enough
If Ohtani does not re-sign, this deadline will go down in the annals of Angels baseball along side of Nolan Ryan leaving as the most significant disasters in franchise history
Marsh was pretty close to 600 ABs and hadn’t shown any offensive ability. Maybe a different team could help him, but the Angels definitely couldn’t. I think it was the right move to trade him.
I truly believe the instructions by analytics and coaching this year hurt the approach at the plate. The historical futility for a team with competent offensive players says something. I agree change of scenery will help Marsh. He’s young enough to add a little more power and adjust his swing. I don’t see 300, but I wouldn’t be surprised he lowers Ks next yr and hits like .260 w 20+ homers and 20 SB
Barria should’ve been traded for prospects.
Why?
His stats were good at the perfect time to get a quality prospect.
Define quality. Because I’m not seeing it.
He’s been the best reliever: 2.60 ERA and a WHIP below 1.
And still has potential as a back-end starter
Not Barria. But the quality prospect we would have gotten.
https://www.fantasypros.com/mlb/players/taylor-ward.php
As usual the organization is gonna regret not trading him while his stock was still high.
This Front Office keeps shooting itself in the foot time and time again (Hansel Robles, Dylan Bundy)……….SOME OF YOU THINK HE’S A BUILDING BLOCK AND I ASSURE HE ISN’T~~ THIS IS A BAD ORGANIZATION THAT CAN’T SCOUT, DEVELOP OR COACH.
💪 💪 💪
His stock isn’t even that high. Bad defense and his hitting has declined.
Maybe he didnt get traded because he really never had any trade value. In fact his only perceived real value was during the first 6 weeks of this season with his breakout offensive production before he got that wall stinger on May 20th. He hasn’t been the same since. I doubt any team with half of brain would have given us any real value for him despite what the Trade Simulators say.
That they listened on Marsh and Ohtani suggests they probably listened on Ward. We need capable OF so I’m not mad about it if his market was weak.
I’m OK with the Marsh trade, but we should’ve traded him earlier. His track record in the minors wasn’t all that good, and when he was #38 we likely could have gotten a better haul for him. The reality is, he had about 600 ABs and stands at around an 80 OPS +. Hopefully O’Hoppe pans out and becomes at least a backup catcher at the MLB level.
It would be awesome of Moniak could get it together and become a playmaker for us, or at least a 4th outfielder.
except that we’re not the Oakland A’s who have a track record at fixer upper projects.
Are you talking about Moniak? It’s better to get something for Thor than nothing at all.
Fletcher running like Grandpa. Hopefully he can get back to normal
Yep, Iwuz right in 2018 Halos Heaven.
Mike Trout becayme a injury prone veteran after all, but the thread was too caught up in Trout Mania Forever With Us. We’ll you all got what you wanted a $30M+ a year player who’s hurt yet again. Now we got a former overall #1 pick bust playing his position. LeBron James gets replaced with Kwame Brown………..
But muh emotional attachment to players
Yeah, of course emotional attachment to players.
That is what being a sports fan is about. What is the alternative?
Being attached to laundry.
Being attached to watching a winning team.
Yes, a team that is made up of players, lol.
It takes a whole team to win, not just 1 player.
Hence why we need to improve the whole team.
Another offseason of hope and faith. We’re going to once again hope “Arte understands he needs to open up the wallet” or “I hope Arte spends more on the team”.
Can’t wait this offseason, lets gooooo!!!!!
Did I say “one player?” Lmao.
I thought the whole point of sports fanaticism was being attached to laundry.
Then its a good thing I don’t wear sweaters.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ftUR6AFTNMA
😂 😂
Moniak in CF tonight
The experiment starts.
Although hope is not a strategy, let’s O’Hoppe is a difference maker.
Perry gets a grade of B from me for shedding Thor and Raisel’s salaries.
I remain unconvinced on any of the prospects purely due to the ineptitude of the Angels player development staff.
As for the money saved from the trades, I’m of little faith that it will be spent wisely.
except Thor’s salary was already shed since he wasn’t signed beyond October 1 or whenever the 162nd game ends. With 40% or so of the season remaining it means Arte stops paying Thor now instead of later this year. The effect is Arte saves about $7mil or $8mil. That’s it. It has zero effect on anything in the future.
Iglesias is another matter. This is why the 20 pitcher strategy was important. Instead of paying $16mil to a closer we’ll be able to figure out who in the minors can get it done, for a lot cheaper. Let’s say Bachman’s the guy. Right there we’ll have saved $15mil that can be used on someone else in 2023.
Please. Let’s keep the pain coming this winter! Trade Trout and cash. Trade Rendon and cash. Trade Stassi. Trade Sandoval. Trade Loup and Tepera plus cash. Trade Ohtani for a haul. Trade Ward. Trade Walsh. Trade everyone older than 26. I want to see the weeping over what we get for Trout and Rendon. I want to have a 130M payroll 70M of it paying guys on other teams. I don’t want to sign anyone to a multi-year contract for a couple years. I want 20 team’s top 30 prospects to arrive on a our farm and I want to complain bitterly that none of them will develop at all and all of them will starve to death anyway. Seriously, f*** this entire roster. Let’s really burn it down and see what we have in four years. I love prospect watching and I’ll also love Mr Demandachamp’s reaction to our April line up once this culling really takes hold. No more big free agents ever, no extensions accept the Eloy Jimenez type that we can afford a few screw ups on. Most of our beloved stars leave at age 29. Let’s do it.
Yes we can!
Sounds like a great idea
Pain is just weakness leaving the fanbase.
“Some of them will starve to death anyway” lmao
B- depending on what they get next year with that money
Iggy Deal
I originally thought there was no way they could get rid of Iglesias and his $14 a year, and I hoped they’d get rid of Tepera and Loup instead. Well, dumping Iglesias is the same thing, so that’s the trade off, although I can see Perry looking to trade one of those relievers still sometime in the Winter Meetings.
I don’t think the bullpen needs Iggy tbh. “With some luck and health” as Perry said, they will have some options. Joyce, Bachman (depending on what they do with him) Murphy, Quijada, C-Rod, they will find someone to fill the role.
Perry says he likes the Tucker guy from his days in ATL, so maybe they picked up another 6th starter or swing man.
B – O’Hoppe for Marsh
If we view this not in the context of the other trade, then Perry was looking to adjust organization depth.
Our catcher’s suck, and Max Stassi has been really bad offensively, staring at strike 3 down the middle. Also, he hasn’t necessarily behind a magician behind plate.
Losing Marsh sucks because he has stellar defense, runs the bases well and seems like a great guy. But obviously they are focusing on Adell’s offensive potential and searching for a consistent role for him. Also, they have Jordyn Adams down in AA who seems to be doing a little better with the bat, and he also has a good golve. This is also about keeping Ward in the fold next season.
D Syndergaard for Moniak
They definitely are swinging for the fences here. Perry says hes going to the roster, but I wish they put him down in AAA to find his bat. I wonder if bringing him close to home (Carlsbad) is going to help him?
Moniak was drafted #1 the year we got Matt Thaiss. Nick Senzel was drafted up there that season and he sucks too.
They must really be banking on Adams becoming a stud if they got rid of Marsh. Unfortunately, he is still a year away and hasn’t really impressed.
Woah, Milwaukee just DFA’d Lamet. Go, Perry, go!
I’d gamble on that.
The Marsh move hurts, but mainly because I’m a fan.
Marsh could turn into Devon White 2.0 and probably remain a fan-favorite for years. Or he could be Peter Bourgeois 2.0. I think Marsh is a better hitter than .220 and a gold glove winner, but the cold reality is that Marsh is a .220 hitter and not a gold glove winner. More importantly, an outfielder had to go. And it had to be Marsh. Not trading him would have been a missed opportunity at this point where his value is on the fence and we did get a good return for him based on what we hear.
The Thor trade is also fine. In hindsight, we keep hearing what a great mentor for the younger arms he was, so in that sense, I think having him around the rest of the year could have been also fine. But again, the reality is that we got a down-payment on Ohtani’s arbitration for 2023 (which frees up other areas), as well as a couple lotto ticket players. That’s actually a win in my book, although I did enjoy watching his starts. He’s a battler out there and I expect him to do well based on what we saw.
I’m the most pleased however with the Iglesias trade. Not because I dislike Iggy– I think he has the potential to be a star in the WS if his mental game is strong that day. However, this contract was going to start huurting us in a couple years when his velocity goes (it already may be going already) since that’s really all he has. $16 million/year for what is now essentially a three-year contract can be turned into Shohei Ohtani money.
TLDR; Nothing world-changing, but pivoting adequately for next season. Which probably means Ohtani re-sign is #1 priority. (I’ll leave that for another discussion not here).
I hadn’t considered Marsh being Devon White. I loved Devon White. If we had Devon White in center and Trout was allowed to get some rest in left or right, I’d be happy.
Me too, Devo was my favorite baseball player when I was a kid.
The problem with trades is someone has to want what we trade. Unfortunately no one lets Angels fans pick who gets traded to their team. Marsh had value… which is why he’s gone.
Fortunately no one lets Angels fans pick who gets traded to their team.
It was said that Marsh looked excited to be going to Philly, which is cool.
Things must have been pretty bad here if you’re excited to be going to Philly.
What are they, like 2 games out of the final Wild Card spot ?
At least he will be playing in meaningful games there …
Well then lets just hope that O’Hoppe doesn’t turn into Junior Felix.
I like the Devon White comparison.
I think that it could apply to Marsh….
I think I’m still going around in circled processing all what happened and the different angles to look at it.
However, the one thing that I find really disturbing is not kicking in some salary in the Thor and Iggy trades to get better returns. Those costs for this year were already budgeted… money “spent.” So Perry should have been able to use those players to improve the team as much as possible.
But no… Perry had to essentially give Arte a refund back for the rest of the money on those contracts, and then get what he could with what value was left. Give me a break, this team is in desperate need of improvement.
But then again, I’ve read in a few places the notion that it is possible those other teams weren’t offering much in return for money kicked in, so we’ll never know for sure. It indeed takes two sides to agree on a trade, and we don’t know what the other teams were saying.
Money back on Iglesias would likely spread into Years 2, 3, 4 and kill our chances at Ohtani and the incoming Navapile 3.0
Exactly. It was another in a series of short sighted moves by Arte with regards to acquiring and developing talent.
As you said, the money was budgeted. And with the Phillies already over the luxury tax threshold, every dollar sent to them would have saved them $1.50. Looks like a great opportunity to buy a legit prospect wasted.
Same with taking on Hosmer and/or Meyer. Let’s say you are happy letting Thor go for free. Then use that savings to take on a Padres contract and snag one of their prospects.
There was just so much more that could have been done. But Arte was focused on the immediate rather than the future. He values cash to buy free agents. He doesn’t value prospects.
I think his record proves that and yesterday was an extension of that philosophy.
Not thrilled with the Marsh trade, but mostly because of the timing. It always seemed unlikely that both he and Adell would have a place in the same outfield going forward, particularly after Ward started to produce. Trading one of them in the off-season or right after spring training would have been a more purposeful, artful maneuver… because it potentially could have netted us a player to help with THIS god-forsaken season. But the AA catcher looks like a maybe-stud. Whatever.
Exactly…. could be good, whatever…. kind of sums it all up.
I think I need some of you to pass whatever it is you’re smoking. We saved money for Ohtani and basically swapped two Bourjos clones in need of a scenery change for each other. And we got a catcher and a couple other flyers in the process. That’s what happened. Let’s not make it more or less than it is.
Catcher has been a free out for most of the last decade around here, not to mention free runs against because of shitty SB prevention and other “veteran/defensive specialities” on our end. This kid is Mike Napoli to me until he falters (ok maybe more like prime Chris Iannetta but when’s the last time we had even that?). Either way we should see what we’ve got in 6-18 months.
Regarding Ohtani, clearly they want to try keeping him. Hopefully they now have enough money combined with the rest of this year’s development of the last two draft classes to do that. If he declines an offer this winter, don’t be surprised if he’s moved for 4+ players before spring training and the WBC hit. Either way it’s not the end of the world with him.
Coming back to the scenery change thing, I can’t stress this enough. The Streak and events since seem to have mentally fried some of the players (and apparently fans too). Marsh’s ABs have long been disastrous with no sign of improvement. Walsh’s ABs are now routinely embarrassing, Iglesias seemed to be in a daze half the time, so on and so forth and it all feeds on itself. Something needed to be done to break up the culture of failure around this club – for both the club’s sake and some of the players’. Marsh was one of the people I suspected/hoped could be swapped. I was hoping Walsh might go too in exchange for the Hosmer/Myers and prospects possibility, but oh well.
Other than that last bit, this was a medium-good trade deadline given where we stand. We might keep Ohtani afterall and some of the toxic performers are gone, opening up opportunities for others and hopefully incentivizing those still around to snap out of it. If they don’t, let’s ship some more out in the winter. Either way we’re on a somewhat better path than we were on Monday.
Hurr durr dee failure fish head Arte. See?
Well said. I’ve cooled my jets a bit with your clarity
I like Charles’s idea of going after an actual SS in the off season simply because most of the best FA’s out there besides Judge are SS or 3B. We have way too many weak spots to fill with the amount of money perceivably available, but I started thinking yesterday that maybe going after DeGrom might be the wisest thing to do first. If we have to keep enduring this 6 man rotation idea for Ohtani’s sake, we desperately need another true ace. Ohtani, DeGrom, Sandoval, Detmers ain’t bad for 1-4.
The SS pool isn’t that great but does have some promise.
Correa will cost a ton so will Turner.
Dansby Swanson is probably the smart play here. League average bat but has been a positive with the glove since 2020 and will cost a fraction of the other two. He’s also only 28.
Xander will be there too. That’s 3 absolute studs in Correa, Xander, and Turner to go along with the very good Swanson. I’m saying there’s enough there to fill the need.
I was also good with bringing Iglesias back this year. He’s played well and is much better than Squid.
What site are you using? I looked at sportrac 2023 free agent SS the other day, and Correa wasn’t listed. I too, thought Swanson would be a good get.
Turner is my top choice for the offseason. Not only he is the best but we nab him from the dodgers .
Swanson too but any of them would be great.
I would like Turner better just as a SS goes. I figured Swanson is cheaper and saves more for Shohei.
Correa has a weird contract that allows opt out, I think. No guarantee that he’ll take it…but who are we kidding, unless things go really south.
Ah, thanks for the info.
Scott Boras is his agent. You really think he wont opt out?
Rendon, Trout, Ohtani and a top SS?
Yes, not my money – but that’s at least $160M for four players.
If we’re predicting what Arte will do, I’m not seeing it.
If we’re playing fantasy baseball with Monopoly money, might as well include Judge too
Xander can hit, that for sure, but his glove work is maybe average. Correa would need to use his opt-out. Dansby is younger than Turner and will be cheaper. Signing Shohei is just being hopeful as I believe that window is closed. Someone mentioned signing deGrom, do we need more injury prone players?
Everyone who dons the halo is injury prone, so might as well go for it
Dansby would be ideal; he’s a cheaper alternative to Turner or Xander.
He would certainly help offensively.
Ummmmm. Swanson. It’s true, I’d like to have him on the team.
Trouble is, he’ll be 29 next season right? So that’s probably a deal breaker. From this point on I want to only sign free agents that are under 27 years old and publicly promise not to get hurt.
I hope not. Angels just drafted their future ss, no point in going out and signing a huge FA.
My grade on the Angels trades of yesterday: “P”
P for Padres
ummm, yes, I concur. this is the best answer.
Can Adell play CF now since he won’t have to deal with those pesky corners?
Adell should play the Field of Dreams. That way the ball just rolls into the corn and he throws his hands up.
This would be perfect. He could dive after everything no matter how close or far and it’s still a double.
What if he got permanently lost in the corn?
If it bounces off his head and goes into the corn, is that a homer?
🎶 If I only had a brain 🎶
I know its hard to believe but, according to Cots , Arte has spent within 2% of the CBT Threshold in 2022 ( $207,000,000) and within 5% of the threshold in 2021 ($199,000,000) Next year the CBT goes up to $230,000,000. I think the proof of Arte’s willingness to compete at least enough to keep Ohtani interested in staying here will become extremely evident this offseason if his budgeted spending goes up proportionately .
Sorry, take back your Rec’s. I got wikipedia’d They didn’t update their CBT tax threshold for this year. It is actually $230,000,000 for this year and $233,000,000 for 2023. So I guess Arte is still just a cheap bastard.
https://www.mlb.com/glossary/transactions/competitive-balance-tax
Damn right. Don’t break the narrative.