Happy Thanksgiving all! There’s so much to be thankful for in life. This little community of Angels/baseball enthusiasts is definitely one of them as is baseball in general. It is great chatting about and enjoying the great game with you.
Ok, so let’s get going we have a full plate of links to go with your full plate of food.
The Angels are raiding the Mets for good pitching. First it was Thor for a year and a cool $21 million. This week Perry Minasian picked up my off season piece and did exactly what I said he should: sign Aaron Loup.
This week Noah took to the talk circuit and talked about the signing.
As we know, Syndergaard is back healthy after Tommy John surgery just like Justin Verlander. What can we expect out of them in 2022?
The Angels are still on the prowl looking for pitching. Kevin Gausman is a current target. Gausman is a guy whose spin rate took a nosedive after the umps started checking for the sticky icky. Not sure how deep I’d want to go here.
The Angels are filling holes in the roster but still have a ways to go. One addition this week was super utility man Tyler Wade who gave a really nice Q and A to The Athletic.
Of course, as talent comes in roster cuts must be made. Keon Wong and Hector Yan were given their release.
The Angels were also in on Steven Matz who went to the Cardinals for 4 years and $44 million. That’s a pretty decent gamble considering his injury history. But if he’s even 75% of what he’s been the last few years, that’s a good signing.
It also takes another good arm away from the Mets, which angered owner/insider trading extraordinaire Steve Cohen who stated “I’ve never seen such unprofessional behavior.”
Perhaps he doesn’t have a mirror.
There could be another flurry of activity as MLB moved the non-tender deadline up to November 30th, one day before the CBA expires.
Taking a look at non tender candidates, there’s definitely some talent Perry might find intriguing. Some swing and bullpen arms, maybe a backup catcher. These are the depth moves that often separate teams over the course of a 162 game marathon.
I’m kind of surprised Perry didn’t claim former number 5 overall pick Kyle Zimmer. After all, he could have cut loose Sam Selman or Jimmy Herget to add Zimmer’s upside.
Sorry to bring up a subject likely to upset your stomachs on the day of a feast, but Artificially Big Papi and A-fraud Rodriguez are on the Hall of Fame Ballot. They hit the list just as PED poster boys Barry Bonds, Roger Clemens, and Sammy Sosa take their last laps.
Perhaps the Hall inducts a “Steroid Class” and denotes that these were the biggest players in the game but their career numbers are as artificially inflated as their egos. I’m not talking about individual plaques that would make them seem equal to the real HOF’ers, I mean one exhibit that notes the dark chapter of the game factually.
And, no, Pete Rose likely throwing games because he owed his mob bookies money doesn’t make him better than the steroid guys or worth of induction. But, hey, if you’re going to commit a crime and break baseball’s most sacrosanct rule, make sure to write a check to cover your tab.
Now that the Tums are kicking in, let’s head for the dessert portion of the day. Hard call between pumpkin and pecan pie here for me. Might as well go with a bit of each.
Ohtani took two slices of pie this week. He was named to the All MLB Team’s as both a hitter and a pitcher.
Enjoy your holiday, be safe, and wish for a full slate of Spring Training games.
Billy had nothing to do with those signings. I imagine he now understands how owners work and the best thing is to do what they want and not try to actually build a team properly. Max would have been cool but not for 40.
Shit happened fast today…..
“Boy, that escalated quickly. I mean, that really got out of hand fast.”
– Ron Burgundy
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sHpMJJP7v_s
Billy is bringing the heat. Whoa.
Stroman is still out there. I dislike the Lorenzen deal simply because it ties up an additional $7mil. I suspect we’ll see by Tuesday what we’ve got, pending trades.
I don’t know if they’ll pull it off as far as attracting a guy, but I’m pretty sure the budget’s going up this year at this point. Lorenzen is a pitching depth upgrade for sure, but I doubt anyone in the FO is like “we don’t need Stroman or Ray anymore”. They’ll still offer contracts to those guys…. but holy f*** not 40M a year.
I talked to my friend that’s a Reds fan and he said it’s a good move for the Angels and he’s sad to see Lorenzen leave. He thinks Lorenzen is going to be a solid bullpen piece for us but that we could try to use him as a starter and if it doesn’t work pivot to the pen quick.
I’ve seen the Angels are in on Robbie Ray and that he’s not close to signing since he still needs to have his formal meeting with Perry. But honestly, I’m hoping we land Stroman instead. Idk how I would feel giving Ray a 5-6 year contract which I think he will get. I would be comfortable giving Stroman a 4 year, but if it was make or break then 5 years max. It’s just crazy seeing what Cohen offered Max. That’s absolutely ridiculous haha.
I want a couple multi inning guys. Lorenzen, Suarez, Barria seem to be fighting for a rotation job with that as the fallback. Too bad we can’t pair C Rod as the other.
I’m all about consistent Stroman over career year guy.
Yeah, the Scherzer contract is crazy, but Cohen’s already lost two front line starters, and Stroman ain’t coming back either. He had to do SOMETHING.
Well, 43M each of the next three years issss…. something. They’ll also be paying Lindor and De Grom 30+ million a year over the life of that contract, Cano 24M for most of it, Pete Alanso will get his arb money, and they have Canha and Marte to pay…. plus a big pile of 8M type players. So I guess we’ll finally get to see if “other Arte” can buy his way into a winner the way “original Arte” keeps refusing to do.
I keep hoping “build a farm system Arte” shows up here at some point.
Is this the opposite of the Buzzie Bavasi move – replace two 8-7 pitchers (or three) with one ace (for 43M)?
$1M less than Gravemen AAV. He better be solid.
Yikes, the dominoes are falling fast today it seems.
We were never going to get Max, Arte is like a Boras fiddle.
I didn’t want that guy anyways. I believe the Mets will be sorry they signed him. 40 million a season for a pitcher is beyond stupid.
Yeah, as good as Max is, $40 mil per season is crazy.
He would have been making more than Trout !
I mean, at $40M, I think I would lose interest. Cohen and the Met’s are in panic mode.
Jon Heyman is a Boras fiddle. To those guys PTP calling and asking what the Max asking price is up to equals “INTEREST!!!”.
We’re the Mets of the west, Max to Queens
I am sorry but these owners look like absolute fools by first spending like drunken sailors and then locking out the players crying poverty. I used to love MLB but I am really beginning to understand how stupid some of these billionaires and millionaires are.
Well, they will actually lock out the players because they don’t have a binding and legally ass covering labor agreement after Dec. 1.
Head scratcher….
https://twitter.com/ByRobertMurray/status/1465153579543674883?t=up-CKQ90asCR6T1gb4Ws5A&s=19
Why the hell would they sign him?
This is TrAdition on steroids.
Never heard of him….
Local Fullerton boy coming home. He was drafted by the Reds in 2013. He’s only started 2 major league games in the last 3 years but those starts were pretty stellar. 9-2/3 innings 3 ER’s 14 K’s no BB’s
You have to remember. With a 6 man rotation , even if we sign Scherzer, Barria Detmers Junk or Canning would have to fill the last spot .
No kidding. Someone has been diving in the dumpsters. I guess they can put him in AAA? Or the pen? If he is in the rotation then…… yuck.
He is also the best 4th OF option. I’ll be shocked if he’s being seriously expected to be a regular starting pitcher, though.
If the team is looking to lorenzen as a 4th OF it would mean the Angels are open to trading some other OF not named Upton.
I’m half (or even 80%) expecting that Adell will be dealt for a starter, Means, Castillo, Marquez, or someone similar, probably packaged with Canning etc.
I cannot picture Lorenzen getting serious time as an OF. I like the guy, was always my sleeper for saves in my NL only roto league. Granted, 3-years ago. Still, feels pricey to me as he has not shown anything the last two years and bigger names are still available.
You’re right about Lorenzen as an OF. He’s insurance, bonus depth. I doubt he’s the plan for OF #4. That’ll be Marsh or Adell. Lorenzen should be fine, barring further injury. He had an arm issue he played through in 2020 and missed half of 2021 because of it. If he knocked the rust off with the IP he got last year and stretches out to be a starter this winter he should be fine, not fantastic, but better than our depth last year.
Because he fit within Arte’s budget
I guess it is one way to waste 7 million.
That seems like a lot of money for a guy with that kind of risk profile?
Either the budget is way up in 2022 or other things are in play. Maybe a depth guy like Barria is getting moved and this fills that eventual void
Or the Angels are just going to resign Iglesias and call it a season which would look a lot like other recent seasons.
this feels like a Q move.
Yeah, too much. Feels like a $4M guy. He wanted to go to a team where we can mimic Ohtani in being a 2-way player. Lorenzen can hit. Youtube the home run hit on the 1st pitch after his dad’s passing. Memorable.
So if this is true and Lorenzen will be in the rotation, I smell a stud shortstop coming. This would give Angels: Ohtani, Thor, Sandoval, Lorenzen, Sicario and Detmers (or Canning/Barria who I hate)..
I think they’ll still try for Ray/Stroman first. Failing that they may actually take a shot at Raisel or other pen arms first.
Lorenzen’s not a bad pick up. He’s got good stuff. Came off an arm injury last year but worked some innings and didn’t break in half. He was a good pitching prospect that they put into the pen to get him to the MLB and he was effective so he kind of got stuck out there. They were gonna put him into the rotation, but then he got hurt. As a possible back end rotation guy he’s not a bad pick up, at the very least he’s a once through the order guy out of the pen.
No lie, he will also quiet possibly be one of our back up OF too. He’s fast and can probably do a good job if he gets in the rhythm of it again. Hits OK too.
I wanted him as a side order after signing the main FAs. Here’s his Bref in case any of you want to actually know what you’re crying about.
My bet is the FO is still trying to sign another starter.
I’m actually quite fond of the move. A bit pricey but pitching’s gotten expensive in general. He’s a good gamble gor pitching depth and I’d been fairly impressed with his OF work and bat. Not someone you want penciled in every day, but he’d make a very good 4th OF, both defensively and offensively.
The dudes just going to be pitching. Nothing more. It ain’t like he”s a Shohei Ohtani
We may see him in the OF for 20 innings next year, something like that. He basically makes it so that if we have a serious depth crunch for a game or two we have an emergency plug in and can add a needed arm or infielder.
CtPG rips there collective blouses in sorrow because the other kids are getting good presents today and none of the cool kids wear Lorenzen..
So, we now have 3 pitchers who can hit (still counting Walsh). And we are in AL (although NL’s probably gonna have DH next season….)
There goes Jon Gray to the Rangers…
Damn, was hoping the Halos might snag him if the top tier was deemed too expensive. I’m not losing sleep over it.
Gray was my second favorite target after Stroman.
Would be so nice to have one dependable guy to kind of solidify the rotation.
Gausman to the Jays
https://twitter.com/jeffpassan/status/1465138688724283399?s=21
Breaking: Blue Jays thank Robbie Ray for the memories.
In other news, please, someone, just sign with the Angels. I love how we act like we have a whole buffet of choices laid out before us around here when really there are about 5 pretty girls at this dance and 11 teams trying to shake a leg.
F it . its time again Arte goes for the Menage a trois just like in his rookie season.
Eat a banana. Light some candles. Put on Bill Withers. It’s time for serious night time Arte.
Arte play this when Perry signs Robbie Ray and trades for Castillo.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bEeaS6fuUoA
Arte did the Foursome in his rookie season. Don’t forget Guillen.
I was only talking about pitchers.( Escobar & Colon) But you’re right I forgot Arte used to be a “two way player”
We signed Wilson and Pujols in the same off-season – so multiple big contracts isn’t unheard of.
(And we have signed multiple pitchers, even more than our usual two stop-gap set – if one recalls the Dipoto Four (for the promise, not the results).
And me still stinging from our failure to sign Hector “the closer who never was” Nerris.
Gausman must have a really magnetic personality.
Let’s see how well those parks in East work as a degausser
I’m sure you’ve seen this meh short bit…
Nov. 28: Angels, Reds discussing Castillo deal
The Angels and the Reds have had preliminary talks on a trade for ace right-hander Luis Castillo, according to a report from MLB.com’s Jon Paul Morosi. The price remains high, however, and no deal appears imminent.
The one thing I like is that, if the price is high and Perry isn’t closing it at the moment, it’s because he is not interested in dealing Adell or Marsh.
Castillo will cost Adell/Marsh and Detmers probably. To land him we have to surpass an offer out of the Dodgers system. Thing is, I’d do it. Castillo is almost certainly going to be better than either. I’d also offer him 5/125-6/150 as soon as I trade for him.
Thats still a lot to give up for a player that has only 2 arbitration years left until free agency and there’s no guarantee he signs an extension. I wonder what kind of deal we could put together if we take on Mous as well?
Hah! THAT was my original IIWPM. I got us both Staumont/Minor from the Royals, then Cessa, a back up catcher and Castillo from the Reds but we took on Garrett and Moose’s money but then we signed Thor and adding Moose plus Minor/Garrett/Castillo put us way over 180M which was the limit I was working with.
Moved Walsh to RF, Moose to 1B, signed Hanser Alberto and had him and Velasquez play SS…
MUSCLE!
I just checked Moustakas remaining contract situation. its a bad contract with $38 million and 2 years left bad. Thats like Robinson Cano territory bad. And Mous hasn’t accidentally ingested any bovine hormones to give his team a break.
So I’m not so sure I’d want to do that deal now.
Actually, look at the total owed to Cano by two teams…. sheeesh, nasty.
Reds: We see you just Drafted 20 pitchers, we’d like half of them.
The Red Baron signs with Texas as well.
I feel ill
Eh. He wants a job. Taylor Ward’s WAR will be higher.
Not his dWAR
I like Kole, but sadly, even his defense can’t drag his dWAR into the positive ever. Not in a single season yet.
Yet even a broken down lump of coal is still better defensively than wrong way Ward.
Except when he plays us.
Jim Bowden. The master of the obvious:
https://twitter.com/JimBowdenGM/status/1465049341127712783
Marcus Semien to Texas for 7yr/175M
Wow.
https://sports.yahoo.com/rangers-reportedly-sign-marcus-semien-to-7-year-deal-strike-first-in-shortstop-market-222510114.html
One Angel killer leaves the division another returns
We Canha catch a break.
Semien that way
That is a lot of money for a 30-year old – which also makes him the only ‘vet’ on the roster?
Why is Texas laying out that kind of contract unless they are planning to spend heavily (they need pitching too – good thing we are moving on that already)?
New stadium etc… I am guessing it was fairly empty last year.
They clearly don’t want another season of low attendance.
And I am guessing they will be spending more.
Not Sure but Bora$ had to get this deal done first to establish the floor for his younger client Corey Seager’s mega deal after the CBA shutdown
Boras did Marcus right with that deal. However, that contract will not age well for Texas.
Scherzer is supposed to sign before the Dec. 1st lock out. According to Boras puppet Heyman, the Angels are one of the teams in along with the Dodgers, Giants and Mets.
https://twitter.com/jonheyman/status/1464984708450852867?s=21
Have to imagine the Dodgers have a serious leg-up with all the other contracts coming off the book and the need in the rotation.
I would be shocked if the Dodgers don’t resign him. Now Arte has said in the past he would go past the budget for the right player, and I do believe Scherzer fits that category where Arte can gush over the marketing potential. But again I don’t see him leaving the dodgers unless the Dodgers don’t want to pay him top dollar
Need ? How about luxury.
They already have one of the best starters in baseball in Buehler and Urias and Dustin May will be returning after a year off.
Maybe a sleeper like the Cardinals will land Scherzer :
Dodgers: Max Scherzer Could be Lured Away by Cardinals (msn.com)
I have a sneaky feeling the Giants swoop in and snag him from LA’s grasp.
If Arte doesn’t pull the trigger and snags Scherzer, that would be my second best option because fuck the dodgers (November)
Could be. With Posey’s retirement they’ll have extra money on hand.
Angels are going to announce Max or Ray before the deadline.
It is hard to see Max wanting to get involved with a 6-man rotation but maybe he feels it will prolong his effectiveness. With Mike Nelson Trout stumping for Max, it might convince Max to sign here. The 3-year contract timeline fits in well when Shohei is due his first real contract.
Ray is young enough, great swing and miss stuff and maybe he has harnessed his control issues. Max used to struggle with control early in too. Not elite like Max.
Stroman is way too chatty on Twitter, I don’t think the Angels want any part of that. That is not how the Angels like to do business. Regarding Max and Ray, they are radio silent. Digging the intrigue.
My vote is Ray
I agree with Jeff that Ray is a big regression waiting to happen.
He had a career year in 2021. What are the chances he repeats that?
Not good.
I’d rather overpay for Scherzer knowing the 3rd year will be bad. If we nab him we’ve then got a very good 1-3 and essentially we’ll have a playoff ready team all except for our closer (Raisel ?). If we can’t get Max I’d like to see Stroman.
His 2021 numbers align with his 2017 numbers pretty closely. He has nearly done this before
(yes, this is his first Cy, and his numbers are marginally better, depending on where you squint).
It was either Jack or Fungo that said that Ray looks like Max before he became Max and that’s pretty accurate. Ray his really sick stuff, always has. Sure, it’s a gamble, but so is the mileage on Scherzer’s arm. I’d be nervous, but Ray may be the guy with the most potential to be a staff ace for 5 years while under contract, so if we sign him I understand.
Also, if you toss out a bad 2020, Ray is about 700 IP into a trend of having a WHIP below or around 1.35 with last year being the dreaded “career year” everyone fears (though most of those same people will complain about “regression” if you sign the same player post career year). He may not match last year, but there’s a good chance last year was just more progress for the guy.
Interesting as this is the first time a Boras client has indicated he will sign before the CBA expiration. Considering his motivation to extract every last dollar out of the clubs despite what other agents typically do, what do the Owners & players know that we don’t?
The new CBA could be better for players, worse for players, or the same for players.
In two of those three scenarios it makes sense for the player to want to sign and avoid the risk of the third.
In two of those scenarios it makes sense for owners to want to avoid the risk of the third.
Coaching staff moves:
https://twitter.com/ken_rosenthal/status/1464748751931781133?s=21
But can he pitch?
Better. He went off on Alex Bregman and the Stros hitting coach, declaring that he will kick said coach’s ass. Thus he is gritty and will most assuredly be able to pump a steady spray of grit all over the Angels club house and toughen those Nancy boys up. Of course, he didn’t actually kick anyone’s ass, but it sure made a bunch of fight tourists love Nevin online because they could be vicariously tough through him, while Nevin was vicariously tough through himself and no one actually did anything tough at all while Bregman suckled on his World Series ring as he slept soundly that night.
I have no idea if Nevin’s a good base coach. I doubt anybody does. His soul qualification around here is gonna be all dick and biceps with zero actual blood on the ground. He could be a total pussy with a big mouth. We have no idea.
But hey, grit. That same grit that carried Nevin to multiple World Championships as a player. Who needs pitching when you have grit?
Years of “we don’t retaliate” has made a lot of Nancy boys. Noe was our only Grit Master!
I never understood that about Scioscia. Dude was hard nosed as a player. Didn’t take stuff from anyone.
But as a manager he’d watch his guys get beamed repeatedly and never do anything about it.
I think, in the case of the Shohei situation some folks are engorged with from last season, the problem is two fold. First, there’s a difference between beaning a guy and trying to throw strikes inside, then hitting a guy accidentally.
In my past, the rule was pretty clear, if I threw at a batter over this I was a dick. BUTTT. If they kept having inept pitchers try to throw inside and hit more than one of my guys I’d be OK hitting someone in the ass.
Intentional BEANING gets retaliated against generally. But there are factors, one of which is who is involved. Which pitcher do you have doing the retaliation? Is it a guy you don’t mind losing for a while? What other players are involved? If you only have one good player on your team do you want him to become the player around whom all the hostility orbits? If I remember right, Shohei was hit unintentionally late in a game while he was the only good hitter AND pitcher on the team. How big a target do you want on Ohtani? cause way back when, that’s who I’m throwing at if you start a bean ball war with me. Is Raisel or another late game reliever the guy you want suspended? There are more issues than just grit involved, even if I am all for purpose pitches, claiming the inside of the plate, and even hitting a guy on purpose for a purpose.
Another issue to consider…. does your team labor under a curse because it’s stadium is on a burial ground? Do YOU want to instigate the brawl where all of Trout, Rendon and Ohtani have all of their bones broken in a scrum?
Jokes aside, another issue is when in a game it happens. If a starter comes out early and hits a guy trying to play the boss, I as a pitcher will buzz him or hit one of the hitters the next inning to make it obvious how things will go moving forward. Early in a game you worry about looking like a bitch, not in the eighth inning. And no. No one gives a shit about the next day, unless all this kicks off again early the next day.
Also, what does the offended player say? This matters. If an offended player asks pitchers to retaliate it happens, if it doesn’t, it’s a big problem. Managers will generally not prevent this ever, it’s a pretty big no no. I got the sense this is what happened with the Mereznik thing a while back, Lucroy chilled it.
But generally, I think the Angel’s lack of “toughness” has been smart because most of the instances when a team should be “tough” haven’t applied to us all that often, like last season’s Shohei thing. I think we still have plenty of pitchers who will put a pill on a guy if say Mike Trout gets knocked down the at bat after a home run, or Ohtani gets dusted in the first inning.
Remember. Retaliation = Packy Naughton making a start.
When Vlad was swinging the most dangerous bat in the Angels’ lineup, he had to hit the deck several times to avoid getting beaned in the head with a fastball. Scioscia never had to worry about retaliation though because Vlad would dust himself off, touch some of that tar on the top of his nasty helmet, and then unleash his own retaliation within the next couple of pitches.
Except for the time that Josh Beckett beaned Vladdy and broke his hand.
We missed our best hitter for several weeks and Sosh’s response was zilch !!
Fuck Josh Beckett (November)
I agree. I didn’t like it at all. In the long run it hurt us.
But he did have his reasons. Mainly, it was because he believed that by not retaliating, it would allow our pitchers to pitch inside. So he saw it as an advantage for our pitching staff.
Problem was, it made our hitters vulnerable to both being hit and pitched inside excessively.
The inside pitching point’s good too… the “we let you do it so we can do it” idea is a thing… accept most of the time it resulted in CJ Wilson nibbling outside and Heaney getting rocked for a HR for us.
Wait, did it get better since Maddon took over?
Actually, you bring up a question I have, and have no info on either way…
Are there other managers who are “better”? Are there managers who retaliate regularly? Not just guys where we can remember a single instance where it made ESPN and we don’t even know if the pitcher just did it or the manager was in on it.
Are there managers where knocking down/hitting your best player generally results in the other team getting hit? If so, who? Does anyone know? Because I can think of dozens of moments where vicarious interwebs tough guy has demanded it because it didn’t happen, or ex-playa douche on TV demands it, but I can’t think of a manager off the top of my head known for it now days.
It’s probably because it costs 12M if a team breaks your left fielder’s hand these days and if that happens two years in a row and you don’t make the playoffs you get fired.
Are there stats? Managers with most hit batters against/for? I wonder if there are guys who “lead the league”….
Interesting point and not really.
But Maddon didn’t willingly take on hits or call for purpose pitches as a player. Mike did.
I guess I expected Mike to be a little more ballsy.
So you’re saying we should have hired La Russa?
Uh oh. The Astros signed Hector Nerris for 2/$10,000 + 16.99M.
Can’t blame bad scouting on this…..
O czym ty kurwa mowisz?
Please allow me to quote from the Community Guidelines (you can find it under “WELCOME!” in the menu bar.
Unless there are people younger than you on your lawn, then you get to bitch every damn day.
That’s because they’re on my damn lawn every damn day.
She’s just watering it…
Not in this drought CA is having.
That’s not what Wally meant….
Oh I know, was trying to steer us back to safer waters.
Congratulations on upgrading your living quarters.
Because we need more Cabbage puns