LA Angels Tuesday News Crash: Mother Of Reinvention

Joe Maddon thinks that David Fletcher is the best infielder in the Major Leagues.  We wants Fletcher to get that Gold Glove for second base.  Others make the argument that Tommy Edman of the Cardinals and Roughned Odor of the Yankees are better.

The Angels sent Jhonathan Diaz back to Salt Lake City over the weekend and brought up Cooper Criswell in his place.  Two days later they optioned Criswell back down to the minors and activated Austin Warren from the COVID-19 list.

Manny Machado and Fernando Tatis Jr. had a heated exchange of words as the Padres continue to slip out of contention in the National League West.  Apparently, Tatis Jr. has been brooding for several weeks and everybody is getting tired of it.

With the season dwindling away, both the Padres and the Yankees find themselves outside the wildcard races

Former outfielder Anthony Gose had been basically washed out of the majors five years ago, but he reinvented himself as a pitcher.  He’s made it back up to the big leagues in his new role. Necessity is the mother of reinvention. 

Speaking of reinventing oneself, Garrett Richards is proving to be very good coming out of the bullpen. What do you think? Will the Red Sox exercise their team option on Garrett Richards?

The Kohei Arihara experiment didn’t turn out so well for the Rangers. They just designated him for assignment.

Which baseball card will emerge victorious out of this 32 card bracketed field? It’s up to the fans who vote.

Photo credit: Rex Fregosi

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GrandpaBaseball
Super Member
1 month ago

If there is a savior on that FA Pitchers list only by luck would anyone find one. Even if we are competitive in 2021 our team’s short comings will pop up. Our front office weakness’ are still around, our weal coaching staff is still present, our bad drafts are showing that we have been clueless and the owner and 2 VP’s are not capable. So we we have Trout, Ohtani, Fletcher and Walsh. With cross your fingers for another 6 or 7 guys.

Fletcher is being dissed and why? Because he fell off in September? Streaky in 2021 I’ll give you that. Not selective enough? I concede. First in hits on the team, yup. Second in Runs Scored, yup. Best Defender we have, yes sir. Pretend to know Baseball and when to give Kudos before knocking the second best player on the team.

Even with his horrible September Ohtani is the MVP of the American League.

angelslogic
Super Member
1 month ago

I’m going to keep my 2022 expectations to a minimum. Just give me a healthy, potent, fun-to-watch Trout/Ohtani offensive tandem and I will be satiated.

JackFrost
Super Member
1 month ago
Reply to  angelslogic

Not me. If we’re not winning it ain’t worth playing.

FungoAle
Super Member
1 month ago
Reply to  JackFrost

HUGE! Love this comment Mr Frost.

Cowboy26
Super Member
1 month ago
Reply to  FungoAle

Its time to stop fucking around (2022)

halofansince1978
Trusted Member
1 month ago
Reply to  FungoAle

Second Place is First Place LOSER!!!

H.T. Ennis
Admin
Super Member
1 month ago
Reply to  angelslogic

Right, winning is always fun, but a return to “normalcy” (the fun days of 2017-19 when we weren’t winning) would be nice too.

Eric_in_Portland
Super Member
1 month ago

12 games left. I’d be happy with 6 wins. I’d prefer 12 wins but I’d be happy with 6, to be competitive, to not get shutout.

Fansince1971
Super Member
1 month ago

Good luck with that 😎

AnAngelsFan
Trusted Member
1 month ago

I believe I predicted 79 wins on the season about a month ago, so I’m right there with you.

halofansince1978
Trusted Member
1 month ago
Reply to  AnAngelsFan

At the start of the season I said .500 and that was a maybe.

AnAngelsFan
Trusted Member
1 month ago

If I recall I was predicting 86 wins with a chance they would add someone at the break and push for a wild card.

The loss of Trout and Rendon are worth a significant number of those missing wins. Fletcher’s performance at the plate is also well below my expectations (I had serious concerns about his ability to hit in 2018, but after 2 years of improvement I was not expecting such a down season).

On the pitching side Ohtani has been better than I was counting on (and as good as I was secretly hoping). I expected decline from Bundy, but not that much. Overall I remain disappointed but not surprised.

I’m sticking by my 79 game prediction. I’m pretty sure I calculated 6 wins in the final 3 series and only 1 win from the As/Astros series. Although, those 6 wins were with the prediction Trout would be back, so I’m definitely not as confident.

gitchogritchoffmypettis
Super Member
Reply to  AnAngelsFan

I don’t recall what I said we’d win, probably because I probably didn’t guess at the beginning of the year, but what ever number of wins we have at the end, that’s probably the number I guessed because I’m a guy on a baseball comments section.

DowningDude
Super Member
1 month ago

I alertly predicted they’d win as many games as they could.

halofansince1978
Trusted Member
1 month ago

Does not matter who your Owner, GM, or Manager is if you don’t have pitching.

After Ohtani we have nothing…fix the pitching and winning will start happening.

Clearly the pitching problem will get fixed by that management team…we will see.

Bringing up kids that have no business in MLB is not the answer…we need an Ace.

IMNSHO we need to bring in two proven healthy Free Agent front line starters Arte!!

matthiasstephan
Trusted Member
1 month ago

One Ace will also not be enough. We do need Sandoval, Suarez, Canning, Barria, Detmers, Rodriguez, etc to pitch and pitch well. Maybe resign Cobb, if he is reasonably priced.

I agree we need to sign or trade for two starters – but we have some pitching (though injuries are killing us this year).

steelgolf
Super Member
1 month ago

Don’t think there is going to be much available in free agency this year.

matthiasstephan
Trusted Member
1 month ago
Reply to  steelgolf

Young, cheap Aces? No, those are few and far between.

But FA starters? Sure.

Grienke, Verlander, Kershaw, Scherzer, Cueto, Stroman, Gausman, Duffy, Syndergaard, Kluber, Smyly, Kikuch, Paxton, Robbie Ray, Jon Gray, Rodon …

steelgolf
Super Member
1 month ago

Scherzer? Dodgers will outbid anyone for him. Keyshawn? I wouldn’t trust his wonky back at this point. Grienke? That could be a decent pick up if you can get him. Gausman? If you can sign him before The Giants do. The rest are health /performance question marks.

matthiasstephan
Trusted Member
1 month ago
Reply to  steelgolf

Robbie Ray has health issues? Isn’t he going to win the Cy? I mean, keep him away from stairs – but he isn’t even 30.

And every FA has some risk, but this is hardly ‘there is no one out there’ territory.

gitchogritchoffmypettis
Super Member

Ray is going to be a big overpay this year, but he’s also probably got the most potential of the FA starters. I’d try overpaying him. It’s a total pipe dream, but say we land him and Desclafani and re sign Cobb, add them to Shohei and the new boys…. that’s getting good.

steelgolf
Super Member
1 month ago

I would be happy with just Cobb and DeSclafani.

gitchogritchoffmypettis
Super Member
Reply to  steelgolf

Me too. That’s more the realistic goal.

JackFrost
Super Member
1 month ago

So why shouldn’t they go after Ray? Who cares if it is not “realistic?”

Besides, who is to say what is realistic and what is not? The only person who knows the truth about it is ARTE, and maybe he even changes his mind from time to time…

And maybe he also has shared something with Perry.

But everyone else, including you are just guessing.

We do not know shit about what is “realistic.”

Last edited 1 month ago by JackFrost
gitchogritchoffmypettis
Super Member
Reply to  JackFrost

Well, first off there slugger, I didn’t say we shouldn’t go after Ray. I said he’ll be overpaid but we might as well give him a shot. So go ahead and tuck your dander back in.

The reason we were saying it’s not very realistic to expect Ray, Desclafani and Cobb is because it’s not. It would mean adding about 50-60M in payroll just on those guys, never mind a SS and pen arms. So, realistically, it’s doubtful we get all three of those guys. Add to that, other teams will be trying to sign these guys, including his current team, which he has said he likes playing for.

So, if you are asking “who’s to say what is realistic?” the answer is me. I say what’s realistic because I’m a big boy who can make qualitative judgements and extrapolations. Is it IMPOSSIBLE? Nope, we could end up with those guys. Is it realistic to think we will?

Maybe for guys like you it is? The world is full of all kinds of different magical thinkers. Hell, if we do, awesome. But I sure wouldn’t get antagonistic with people who think it probably won’t happen because it’s a stupid hill to die on..

JackFrost
Super Member
1 month ago

Nice job of moving the goalposts.

I never said anything about Ray, Gwen Stefani and Cobb. I mentioned Ray and that is it.

Signing one pitcher is not the same as signing three.

JackFrost
Super Member
1 month ago
Reply to  steelgolf

Don’t trust Greinke anymore. He lives between 84-90mph.

He is doing it with smoke and mirrors at this point. Guy has gotten rocked in last couple of times out.

No to Greinke.

H.T. Ennis
Admin
Super Member
1 month ago
Reply to  steelgolf

the list tails off really quickly

Jeff Joiner
Editor
Super Member
1 month ago
Reply to  H.T. Ennis

Scherzer, Stroman, pile of meh.

Ray is having an incredible year. Not sure I’d want to bet on him having 4 more of them.

Descalfani has had a nice run in SF and is really good when healthy. But we know how healthy guys stay around here.

gitchogritchoffmypettis
Super Member
Reply to  H.T. Ennis

I’d try Matz at the right price.

gitchogritchoffmypettis
Super Member

I can already hear the keening of CTPG… “I’m TIIIIIIRED of the scrap HEEEEEEP! SOMEONE NEEEDS TO BE HELD ACOUNTABLE!”

halofansince1978
Trusted Member
1 month ago
Reply to  steelgolf

Pretty sure we could come up with two ace like types from the 2022 list.

STARTING PITCHERS
Kevin Gausman (31)
Max Scherzer (37)
Clayton Kershaw (34)
Charlie Morton (38)
Adam Wainwright (40)
Carlos Rodón (29)
Trevor Bauer (31) — can opt out
Zack Greinke (38)
Merrill Kelly (32) — club option
Wade Miley (35) — club option
Alex Cobb (34)
Eduardo Rodriguez (29)
Marcus Stroman (30)
Tyler Anderson (32)
Jon Gray (30)
Andrew Heaney (31)
Robbie Ray (30)
Danny Duffy (33)
Michael Pineda (33)
Johnny Cueto (36) — club option
Anthony DeSclafani (32)
Dylan Bundy (29)
Kwang Hyun Kim (33)
Alex Wood (31)
Yusei Kikuchi (31) — club option/player option
Zach Davies (29)
Drew Smyly (33)
Brett Anderson (34)
Rich Hill (42)
Garrett Richards (34) — club option
Steven Matz (31)
Corey Kluber (36)
Martín Pérez (31) — club option
Matt Harvey (33)
Trevor Cahill (33)
J.A. Happ (39)
Vince Velasquez (30)
José Quintana (33)
Tommy Milone (35)
Michael Wacha (30)
Aaron Sanchez (29)
James Paxton (33)
Jon Lester (38)
Carlos Martínez (30) — club option
Mike Fiers (37)
Chris Archer (33)
Wily Peralta (33)
José Ureña (30)
Cole Hamels (38)
Justin Verlander (39)
Mike Montgomery (32)
Wade LeBlanc (37)
Ervin Santana (39)
Jhoulys Chacín (34)
Matt Moore (33)
Ivan Nova (35)
Jake Arrieta (36)
Jordan Lyles (31)
Chase Anderson (34)
Tanner Roark (35)
Matt Shoemaker (35)
Julio Teheran (31)
Félix Hernández (36)

Eric_in_Portland
Super Member
1 month ago

I got to here

Matt Harvey (33)
Trevor Cahill (33)

and just about stopped, but then I looked a little lower and saw Quintana. This might be a list of available starters but it’s not a list of aces.

JackFrost
Super Member
1 month ago

I think he was showing who was available.

And there are potential “Aces” on this list as well as a couple stud Aces.

Last edited 1 month ago by JackFrost
halofansince1978
Trusted Member
1 month ago
Reply to  JackFrost

Thank You JF.

red floyd
Super Member
1 month ago

Don’t forget Heaney.

h27kim
Trusted Member
1 month ago

Morton recently signed ext with Atl, fwiw. A lot of interesting but flawed arms in that bunch, and too many of them are too famous that they’ll get more than they are now worth …

FungoAle
Super Member
1 month ago
Reply to  h27kim

Agree, a bunch of tired looking flawed arms which is why we need to trade some prospects. Putting a Louisville slugger against my head, I’d go for Max and Grienke on 2-yr deals or go home.

gitchogritchoffmypettis
Super Member
Reply to  h27kim

I hate it, but the fact is everyone, even Cole, is getting more than they are worth if they can pitch at all. So now the big question is who is the elast bad gamble?

Trust me, we are not going to universally like anyone that we sign this winter.

AnAngelsFan
Trusted Member
1 month ago

If anyone who can pitch is getting more than they are worth, maybe the actual problem is that we don’t properly calculate the fair market value of pitching?

Perhaps its time to consider $/pitcher WAR is a higher rate than $/positional WAR.

Jeff Joiner
Editor
Super Member
1 month ago

Scherzer is an Ace
Stroman is a really good 2
Ray is pitching like a really good 2 this year but hasn’t in any other year.

gitchogritchoffmypettis
Super Member
Reply to  Jeff Joiner

Based on the “he’s finally put his RAW STUFF together with health” argument I think Ray is one guy who may actually remain pretty good…. actually kind of like early days Mad Max.

gitchogritchoffmypettis
Super Member

Man. That’s a lot of crap to shoot.

Jeff Joiner
Editor
Super Member
1 month ago

The pitching problem exists due to ownership and GM’s, though. Arte has consistently spent resources on bats not arms, Eppler drafted athletes more often than pitchers.

Looking at the free agents for next year, the only Ace potential is Scherzer. A two headed monster of Scherzer/Ohtani sounds awesome but then there’s likely no money for shortstop or the bullpen.

An Ace handing the game over to Slegers or Petricka isn’t going to work, either. We need a bullpen.

I’ll do my off season piece soon but I’d like to be a little innovative and get 2-3 multi inning guys who can go 2-3 innings once or twice per week and really limit the leverage situations of guys like Slegers. Let’s say Detmers goes 5 then C-Rod for 2. Next night it is Sandoval going 5 and Junk going 2.

gitchogritchoffmypettis
Super Member
Reply to  Jeff Joiner

You know what might be an interesting off season read is a look at the Ray’s pitching staff. They seem to be the rout we may want to go and they seem to have pretty much no one acting as a guy who is meant to go 7innings or just 1 inning. I think with arms like Cobb (if we keep him), C Rod, Marte, Quijada, Warren and Mayars we may be suited to this method. It is also really useful for bringing young pitchers along one cycle through the order at a time.

I think there is a nice pile of FA pitchers who could fit this mold too.

red floyd
Super Member
1 month ago
Reply to  Jeff Joiner

Ohtani and Scherzer and four days of WORSIER

gitchogritchoffmypettis
Super Member

IMNSHO who are those two FA pitchers?

steelgolf
Super Member
1 month ago

Well, my son and I will be at Thursday night’s game for one last live baseball experience for the season. Hopefully The Angels can at least score one run and maybe even sneak in a win.

red floyd
Super Member
1 month ago

I don’t know about Edman, but Odor stinks.

JackFrost
Super Member
1 month ago
Reply to  red floyd

I can smell something coming from the vicinity of 2B.

ihearhowie3.0
Trusted Member
1 month ago

Showalter to the Padres feels inevitable given his positive relationship with Machado. Scioscia crossed my mind but I couldn’t think of a worse fit for Machado & Tatis’ personalities.

JackFrost
Super Member
1 month ago
Reply to  ihearhowie3.0

Sosh is a hot item right now, coming fresh off a loss in the Olympics to Japan in the Gold Medal game!

Last edited 1 month ago by JackFrost
halofansince1978
Trusted Member
1 month ago
Reply to  JackFrost

Mike Scioscia will be a Major League manager net year…I can hardly wait!!

JackFrost
Super Member
1 month ago

Hopefully we get to go up against him ha ha. Easy wins.

halofansince1978
Trusted Member
1 month ago
Reply to  JackFrost

Bet you a dollar that much like a lot of the players we have let go…Scioscia will dominate us.

JackFrost
Super Member
1 month ago

Naw.

Cowboy26
Super Member
1 month ago

FIFY: Mike Scioscia will be a Major League The Padres manager next year…I can hardly wait!!

JackFrost
Super Member
1 month ago
Reply to  Cowboy26

Sosh and Tatis Jr. would not be what you’d call a match made in heaven.

FungoAle
Super Member
1 month ago
Reply to  ihearhowie3.0

Bochy…book it.

DowningDude
Super Member
1 month ago

I think a large majority here want Moreno to go.

Just because we don’t make the same complaint with every comment doesn’t mean we’re some Arte apologist. I certainly am ready for new ownership but what can I do?

A big anti Soth theme at the old place was “the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result.” The same can be said for being a broken record of negativity.

There are bigger gripes to be had right now in life, ladies and gentlemen. Angels Baseball is still fun in several ways. Ohtani is having a season that’s bever been seen before. That alone is a big positive for this season. If you are witnessing this and still full of doom and despair for our baseball team then you have a problem.

Be well, my friends. Try to find a silver lining in everything and stand upright.

GrandpaBaseball
Super Member
1 month ago
Reply to  DowningDude

Well said. It is sometimes a crack up reading from some Doomers having the same comments every night about how bad the team is and how they are done, but some how return every night. But still the team keeps going with trying hard to win even though they are over matched. Not at all a fan of the matching slumps of Fletch and Ohtani but I still love them. I am thinking still that Marsh is going to be better next season too. Stassi’s slide is unfortunate coinciding with the team sliding. I love watching the “Kids” pitching and getting experience.

Fansince1971
Super Member
1 month ago
Reply to  DowningDude

I don’t want Arte to go per se….that’s change for the sake of change.

What I want is an Organization structure change where marketing is separated from Baseball Ops and a President of Baseball Operations is hired to run the baseball side of things. That is the model for successful teams in this era. Look at the Dodgers with somewhere around 100 employees on the Baseball Operations side of things. There is simply too small a margin for error with all the information that is available and poured over these days. You need a team of baseball people supported by scouting and analytics.

The Angels Organization is operating as teams did in 2005 and before. It needs to be totally revamped. I don’t care if Arte owns it as long as he is willing to build a Baseball Organization and cede control of Baseball Ops to that Organization.

Jim Atkins
Trusted Member
1 month ago
Reply to  Fansince1971

Very well said. The fundamental problems with this team stem from the front office. It’s not too much marketing and not enough baseball, it’s not nearly enough baseball decision making. A more modern front office is necessary to compete for talent, and we aren’t even remotely keeping up with the needed emphasis on data and scouting.

Regarding marketing, anybody heard what our attendance for the year is going to be? Seems like it’s going to be down, substantially and not just due to the covid-restricted games early in the season.

DowningDude
Super Member
1 month ago
Reply to  Jim Atkins

6th in AL down from 2nd in AL in 2019

gitchogritchoffmypettis
Super Member
Reply to  Fansince1971

I generally agree with this. I want Arte’s money and willingness to spend it to stay. I’d like his friends to leave.

But it’s a common trope around here, “Separate marketing and baseball ops…” You guys do realize that that doesn’t happen ANYWHERE right, other than places where marketing just doesn’t matter like in Oakland? I also think the instances of the cryptid creature known as the “hands off owner” have been greatly exaggerated around here.

Sure, I totally want all the scouts, all the nerds, all the Driveline and all Arte’s money put into it. But the idea that Boston, LA, San Fran etc have owners groups that aren’t constantly giving their input, which is marketing influenced, to their ops guys is naïve. I’ll be stoked if Arte shunts Carpino/Kuhl off into a closet and hires Dayton Moore, but it’s not going to magically fix everything, there are a ton of crap teams with Presidents of Baseball Ops and the constant whining about getting one reminds me of the old constant whine that just getting rid of Scioscia will net us several more wins a year because “youth and grit pump!”.

Senator_John_Blutarsky
Super Member

We should have kept Eaton to be our “Gose”. He absolutely couldn’t be any worse than the other stuff being allowed to stand on the mound.

I like Fletch, but I’d like it more if as much energy spent on other things like WINNING instead of the meaningless individual awards.

matthiasstephan
Trusted Member
1 month ago

Whose energy do you think is not focused on winning? Do you think Fletch is out there thinking – just need to play good D, win that Gold Glove, who cares if we win the game?

Senator_John_Blutarsky
Super Member

There’s zero reason to debate who is not focused on winning given the franchise has had a losing record the last 6 years (including 2021). I’m thinking even you can figure it out.

As for Fletch getting his golden glove, sure it will look great on his “Wall of Gaylord” listing all the individual accomplishments and participation ribbons he received as a member of a losing team. Ask any athlete participating in a team sport what matters most: a championship or an individual award. The answer will decidedly be a championship.

Have a wonderful day.

matthiasstephan
Trusted Member
1 month ago

You set up a false debate. You want Arte (presumably) to want to field a winning team (by not paying for players – or paying for different players – or changing Managers (which has been done in the past 6 years) or GM (again, changed)? Ok. (We can agree to disagree about whether Arte, somehow, isn’t trying to win). What does that have to do with individual awards?

What is up with the swipe at Fletcher for playing well enough for an individual recognition? Fletch isn’t out there playing defense and causing others not to hit, or to get hurt. This isn’t about changing his swing to hit HRs or something.

Sure, he would have preferred to be in the playoffs – but it isn’t either/or there. He plays hard, at an elite level – and he deserves recognition for that. Even if the team loses.

Senator_John_Blutarsky
Super Member

comment image&ct=g

matthiasstephan
Trusted Member
1 month ago

Thank you for avoiding personal attacks. Very kind of you.

Jeff Joiner
Editor
Super Member
1 month ago

Yeah, no personal attacks. Not even using my favorite Disney movie, Lion Hamlet.

Senator_John_Blutarsky
Super Member
Reply to  Jeff Joiner

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DowningDude
Super Member
1 month ago

Corn flakes taste much better with a pinch of sugar sprinkled ober top.

JackFrost
Super Member
1 month ago

Agree. Individual awards and winning are not mutually exclusive.

Last edited 1 month ago by JackFrost
gitchogritchoffmypettis
Super Member
Reply to  JackFrost

comment image

gitchogritchoffmypettis
Super Member

Life is a hot hot dessert.

Fletcher wins GG = Vanilla ice cream.
Being the Brewers = Chocolate ice cream.

Real winners want the chocolate.

Real winners will just sit there and sullenly watch the vanilla ice cream melt to prove a point.

What point?

Don’t know. But Arte…..

gitchogritchoffmypettis
Super Member

I think what we need to see is, when ever the cameras focus on a player on the field or at the plate, that they are violently staring into the middle distance and softly mumbling “win. win. win. win. win. win win.” to themselves. We need to see those lips move.

Plus, less shaving, more grit.

matthiasstephan
Trusted Member
1 month ago

Right, I hadn’t considered how Fletch’s clean shaven look has been holding back his hitting. If he really wanted to win ….

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