Billy Eppler out as Angels GM

The 2020 season is over and immediately Billy Eppler has been let go from his job as GM for the Angels. Dave Dombrowski has been the most rumored name to take over. Whoever it is will likely get on the job before he postseason ends. With Arte Moreno as the owner, it may not matter who is the GM, but maybe an experienced GM can change him.

Billy Eppler had 5 losing seasons with the Angels. Despite his efforts of keeping Mike Trout, getting Shohei Ohtani, and trades for Simba and Dylan Bundy, his inability to assemble an effective pitching staff was his downfall. Mike Trout will miss him despite his desire for the playoffs.

Oddly enough, he was given a one year deal over the summer so it is a firing. Arte Moreno didn’t fire Mike Scioscia as he just let that contact end, but he did Brad Ausmus. In 2021, the Angels will be paying Eppler and Ausmus, in addition to Joe Maddon and their to-be-hired GM.

How good or bad was Billy Eppler? Leave below your opinion in the comments and who you want or expect for GM!

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M.C.Homer
Newbie
1 year ago

I think Billy was the perfect guy to build a perennial winner. But that takes time.
Too bad, he just wasn’t the right match to clean up DiPoto’s mess compounded by the urgency to win Trout era. If only Billy got hired instead of DiPoto the 1st time, I know we would be having a TOTALLY different conversation today.

2002heaven
Trusted Member
1 year ago
Reply to  M.C.Homer

Eppler’s cousins are allowed to have a opinion too!!! 😆 
He had 5 yrs too long to ruin the direction of this team. Mariner’s finished with a better record under DiPoto in 4 out 5 seasons….LOL!!!! the highest level the farm system rating got under Eppler was 16th two yrs ago with a guy named Kevin Maitan who was way overrated and overweight SS prospect. 😁  This year it’s at 25th…..LMFAO!!!

Last edited 1 year ago by 2002heaven
M.C.Homer
Newbie
1 year ago
Reply to  2002heaven

Arte is the root cause, you know it is. Enough said…

M.C.Homer
Newbie
1 year ago
Reply to  2002heaven

You seem to forget DiPoto’s brilliant singing of a cuban shortstop which forced us out out of the ever important international market for how long?
That is nothing to laugh at. Paralyzed us long term Mariner fan.

M.C.Homer
Newbie
1 year ago

Mike Scioscia says Hi

PatrickNaN
Trusted Member
1 year ago
Reply to  M.C.Homer

He’s got (or at least had) Arte’s trust and I have to assume he realizes it takes pitchers to win games. I’m not as alienated by this idea as probably most of you are.

Last edited 1 year ago by PatrickNaN
M.C.Homer
Newbie
1 year ago
Reply to  PatrickNaN

Just stirring the conversation.

M.C.Homer
Newbie
1 year ago
Reply to  PatrickNaN

I wanted to jokingly say “didn’t he already resign from that job?”.
I love Mike but I think he and Bud Black should he become available are too old school, not Ivy league enough to keep up.

gitchogritchoffmypettis
Super Member

If it keeps Arte’s dragon in it’s cave I’d be all for having Tony LaRussa be Prez of Opps if we then hired a couple guys, say Daniel Adler and Jeremy Zholl from the Twins, to be the “baseball brains. La Russa can politic and represent and shake hands and do pressers while the “brains” we hire hatch plans. I think La Russa would be good about approaching Arte about payroll and keeping him out of the FOs hair.

dwood78
Newbie
1 year ago

This was to be expected- esp giving that the team failed to make it to the post-season during his time as GM.

However, there’s problems within the origination with the terrible choices- for overpaying for aging players to NOT taking the lack of pitching in the farm serious enough & wasting Ohtani & Trout’s primes. I’m worried that this will continue no matter who’s the new GM.

steelgolf
Super Member
1 year ago

I wonder if Arte will make a lateral management move placing the billboard cabal of Carpino and Kuhl in their similar roles over at SRB Management Partners LLC (probably a better fit) and possibly hire a new baseball operations team?

eyespy
Super Member
1 year ago
Reply to  steelgolf

C&K are not rich enough to join that exclusive club. Will be a bunch of out of state guys getting the tax breaks.

gitchogritchoffmypettis
Super Member
Reply to  steelgolf

That would be awesome. Now that Buttercup has been gone I don’t think there is anything that has near universal dislike as much as Kuhl/Carpino. If they were shuffled off I would giggle like a giant gleeful baby.

Senator_John_Blutarsky
Super Member

If the Skaggs/Kay situation didn’t take down K/C, sadly nothing will.

ihearhowie3.0
Trusted Member
1 year ago

Liked Billy more than Dipoto but he was like a pitcher that nibbles. Too scared of failure to truly succeed.

One assumes either Marsh or Adell will not be here come March.

eyespy
Super Member
1 year ago
Reply to  ihearhowie3.0

And I so wanted to see Marsh play in Anaheim for a few seasons

Charles Sutton
Editor
Trusted Member
1 year ago
Reply to  ihearhowie3.0

Probably Marsh. I think Adell’s trade value might have taken a little beating this season. The off-the-glove home runs could be chalked up to bad luck, but the strikeouts are hard not to notice.

eyespy
Super Member
1 year ago
Reply to  Charles Sutton

but twice?

Charles Sutton
Editor
Trusted Member
1 year ago
Reply to  eyespy

If he did a third one in left field it would have been a trifecta of outfield infamy.

eyespy
Super Member
1 year ago
Reply to  Charles Sutton

One more game, pleeeeeeze

JackFrost
Super Member
1 year ago
Reply to  Charles Sutton

The HR’s weren’t “off” the glove (that makes them sound less bad), rather they were “out of the glove.”
They were both very catchable balls that were completely bungled.

They were not some kind of just miss valiant effort. They were both big time f_ ups.

HalosFanForLife
Trusted Member
1 year ago

Whoever is the new GM won’t be saddled with the $25 million per year waste of money after next year. Thank God. He also inherited a horrible farm system – so Dipoto gets some of this lull. That was a huge hurdle in front of any GM. Most, not all, of the bad contracts were inherited by Eppler. Still, he didn’t get it done. He had a few big hits, but basically none regarding the rotation until Bundy. The real jury on Eppler is still to be seen. Let’s see how that Kochanovicz pitching class works out before passing final judgment.

eyespy
Super Member
1 year ago

There will always be bad contracts, thanks Arte

WallyChuckChili
Super Member
1 year ago

On the 2015 draft.

Wasn’t it Epp that brought all this new technology to the minor leaguers? Wasn’t it Epps minor leagues that developed the 2015 class?

Also does it matter if you’re an above .500 team if you don’t make the playoffs? Only 2014. 2014 rotation included inherited starting pitchers Weaver, Richards and Shoemaker.

Weave was 18-9, Richards 13-4 and Shoe was 16-4

I’m pretty sure Epp wished he inherited the 2014 trio vs the 2016 trio.

H.T. Ennis
Admin
Super Member
1 year ago

wait we. extended. him. so we could. fire? him??

eyespy
Super Member
1 year ago
Reply to  H.T. Ennis

Power Move

PatrickNaN
Trusted Member
1 year ago
Reply to  eyespy

The ultimate power move!

Rahul Setty
Admin
Trusted Member
1 year ago
Reply to  eyespy

Look at Arte out here, fixing income inequality! /s

PatrickNaN
Trusted Member
1 year ago
Reply to  Rahul Setty

Yeah, not to be a class warrior type of a guy, but I’d be a lot happier if Arte had paid the minor leaguers this year and not given Eppler money for a whole year he pretty obviously wasn’t going to be here for.

That doesn’t even feel like Arte’s style. It feels like there must be more to this story.

eyespy
Super Member
1 year ago
Reply to  PatrickNaN

Tony LA-RUS-SA

JackFrost
Super Member
1 year ago
Reply to  H.T. Ennis

I think this is very likely what happened. Arte saw the way 2020 was going and saw the writing on the wall. Arte wanted to be able to fire somebody in order to deflect negative attention from the org as a whole (namely himself!) so he set Billy up like a bowling pin.

By being able to fire somebody it makes a show of having addressed the “problem.”

Last edited 1 year ago by JackFrost
AdelitasBarTJ
Member
1 year ago

Eppler gone, but all the scummy yes-men around Arte in the f/o remain.

ihearhowie3.0
Trusted Member
1 year ago
Reply to  AdelitasBarTJ

Exactly why things wont change. Arte never looks at himself or Carpino/Kuhl etc. It’s always someone else’s fault the organization keeps having the exact same results despite new managers and GM’s

HalosFanForLife
Trusted Member
1 year ago
Reply to  ihearhowie3.0

The fish rots from the head. Carpino should have gotten his walking papers first.

eyespy
Super Member
1 year ago

Bad choice of words bro. He is already steamed about not winning.

eyespy
Super Member
1 year ago
Reply to  ihearhowie3.0

No faults, because they did the hiring, only “Well this isn’t making me money” they never talk about loses. That is why next season is so important to Arte. He needs to figure out how to counter not getting 3,000,000 tickets accounted for. Only cure is to spend money, ouch, and to build a multi year Championship team.

2002heaven
Trusted Member
1 year ago
Reply to  eyespy

Jake Taylor……Tom Berenger from “Major League” movie. “Only thing left is to win the whole fucking thing!!” LOL!!! 😆  😎 

eyespy
Super Member
1 year ago
Reply to  2002heaven

OO-La-La, is Arte going to STRIP(smiling Bob version) for you, for me?

JackFrost
Super Member
1 year ago
Reply to  ihearhowie3.0

Look, Billy was horrible (not even a SINGLE season with a winning record despite having the best player in baseball!), no question, but what you say is nonetheless true.

Arte needs to look in the mirror and change the way HE does things. Hopefully this process has slowly been happening already. In any case Arte surely has a huge ego and needs to feel like any ultimate success the team has is because of him. I am hoping this trait is softening, but we can’t be sure of that.

Last edited 1 year ago by JackFrost
LAAFan
Trusted Member
1 year ago

Let Bauer be the GM if he signs here, he seems psycho enough to try it lol.

Eric_in_Portland
Super Member
1 year ago

interesting comment totals

game thread: 60
game wrap-up: 30
Eppler gone: 120+ and counting

Mia
Super Member
Mia
1 year ago

This is what we play for.

Rahul Setty
Admin
Trusted Member
1 year ago

This is the most monumental news of the entire season, so it’s not unfounded!

matthiasstephan
Trusted Member
1 year ago

Well, to be fair, the Eppler news is more meaningful than the last game in which Trout and Rendon (and Simmons) were not playing.

eyespy
Super Member
1 year ago

More meaningful than the last month of Angels baseball, minus Albert’s exploits ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

But we knew this was going to happen anywho, but to just extend the man for another season, “Smiling Bob” Moreno knows what a deal is, I guess.

Last edited 1 year ago by eyespy
UnrealisticOptimist
Trusted Member
1 year ago

It’s been a long time coming for that shit fuck Epp, Always hated him from the start & never should have been hired. I’m soo happy right now!

eatgrasslikegoat
Member
1 year ago

jesus

2pints
Trusted Member
1 year ago

What a shitty “season”

gitchogritchoffmypettis
Super Member

There it is. We just won the 2021 World Series. Good starting pitchers will tell their wives and childhood dreams to STFU and sign here now. Elbows will never explode again. Junkie’s will forsake their fixes for salads. This is going to be awesome.

Gave him five years, didn’t get it together, so he’s done. Please just don’t go to some other team and do well Billy. Just take a position in the MLB offices.

Eric_in_Portland
Super Member
1 year ago

I love your solutions

ihearhowie3.0
Trusted Member
1 year ago

Didn’t get it together in 5 years despite having Mike Trout on the team yet the Miami Marlins could make a 16 team postseason.

They have injuries and a lack of free agent interest too. It’s OK to admit Eppler was not great and Arte obviously is a negative influence on operations.

Warfarin
Trusted Member
1 year ago

So.. assuming Dombrowski is the guy. Who do you guys hope he hires as his “#2,” so to speak? Assuming Dombrowski becomes President, he’ll likely have a GM working underneath him who primarily manages the farm system.

2002heaven
Trusted Member
1 year ago
Reply to  Warfarin

Neal Huntington?

VictoriousVIC
Trusted Member
1 year ago
Reply to  Warfarin

I know this is a really lazy answer but anyone in the Dodgers or Rays front office is a thumbs up for me. We need a GM that can really draft pitching and build up the farm. Eppler did ok at building it but failed at developing his players.

Warfarin
Trusted Member
1 year ago
Reply to  VictoriousVIC

Well, it’s not a lazy answer, because it’s the same answer I have!

More specifically, I’d look at Alex Slater with the Dodgers. He is their Director of Player Development and has been there with Friedman since 2014.

Given his extensive experience overseeing the Dodgers’ player development system, I would imagine he’d be a guy we’d want as our GM, underneath Dombrowski, to help construct the farm system.

2002heaven
Trusted Member
1 year ago
Reply to  Warfarin

Whut abawt Cleevland?
They keep tradin away pitchers and still keep staying competitive.

gitchogritchoffmypettis
Super Member
Reply to  Warfarin

Yeah, IF Dombrowski (or some other guy) is President of Ops then I hope they hire a DoPD away from a team like the Rays, Cardinals, Indians or Doyers. If they can poach a guy from the A’s that would be fine too. I’d just avoid anyone from the Padres, unless the plan is to just trade all your stars, draft really early for 20 years and spend a ton on Latin American top prospects and waiting until 15 good players shake out of the mess.

Dark horse, dark dark dark…. scouting and player development guys from the Astros past. Just sign those guys up and when twatnet explodes with “Oh my God! You signed up those men who worked with men who were evilllll…. men. All juss to make a team win ball games!” simply answer “Yup.”

VictoriousVIC
Trusted Member
1 year ago
Reply to  Warfarin

I’ve heard of Alex Slater before and that would be a great hire. Seeing what he has done to build and maintain a great farm system in LA is remarkable and not an easy thing to do when LA is always competing for a title. The only way that happens is if Dave accepts to be the President of Baseball Ops and hires Slater himself to be the GM because no way Arte will hire Slater himself lol.

2002heaven
Trusted Member
1 year ago
Reply to  VictoriousVIC

Like how?
Turk’s Teeth wrote back in March that our farm is #25 after 4 yrs of Eppler and with only Anthony Rendon as a consequence ( still kept our #1 pick this year )

Turk's Teeth
Editor
Trusted Member
1 year ago
Reply to  2002heaven

Yeah, if I could unilaterally modify one “lazy press meme” that gets recycled in every Eppler post-mortem, it’s this canard that the guy resuscitated the farm. The farm will be in the bottom third of the MiLB in almost every system ranking in the coming offseason, now that Adell has exceeded rookie qualifications. It’s a farm full of long-term lotto tickets and projects, with some hoping and wishing on Brandon Marsh and Reid Detmers.

Can anyone point to a single impact player that Eppler drafted yet? His reputation was built on Adell (a top 10 draft pick), but after this season, is everyone sure this is a no-doubt impact prospect? He’s got a looong way to go. Canning? A #3/4 guy who has put up 2 WAR cumulatively over the past two seasons – and the most atypical Eppler draft selection ever (an advanced college pitcher!). I love that 2017 pick, but it’s not exactly transformative. That’s it thusfar.

Meanwhile, Dipoto’s last draft (2015) has yielded the third-most WAR of all teams in the draft to date, and the Angels had the last pick in the draft.

rez2405
Trusted Member
1 year ago
Reply to  Turk's Teeth

Just briefly looking up the first round for each class .. so the counter argument would be theres only been maybe a handfull(?) ….. maybe? That has made an impact so far?

Any player further down in the draft it has been said multiple times in this group that its almost a crapshoot (luck)..

So someone(s) is incorrect.

Turk's Teeth
Editor
Trusted Member
1 year ago
Reply to  rez2405

Yeah, as someone who has done draft and prospect analysis for 20 years, I’m not going to simply dismiss every hit outside the first round. You draft classes, and you assess value across those classes.

If you’re assessing on the basis of first rounders alone, the value is going to largely be a function of where in the first round one selected, so that simply doesn’t make sense at all.

rez2405
Trusted Member
1 year ago
Reply to  Turk's Teeth

It doesn’t really address the counter argument though. How many in total have “really” made an impact by your definition, league wide….. ?

2002heaven
Trusted Member
1 year ago
Reply to  Turk's Teeth

Should Maddon have called on Detmers? 🤔 

ihearhowie3.0
Trusted Member
1 year ago
Reply to  Turk's Teeth

I haven’t liked Eppler’s drafts but I don’t recall people loving Dipoto’s at the time they happened.

As we’re comparing things that get better with time (prospects), feels disingenuous to compare a Dipoto class from 5 years ago against Eppler’s. When you add in that Eppler had targeted a lot more high school kids up top with longer timelines, we might not know how good these drafts were for a few years still.

hockey_duckie
Member
1 year ago
Reply to  ihearhowie3.0

To be fair, Dipoto didn’t have two consecutive first round picks due to FA signings of Pujols and then Hambone. New rules have done away with losing a first as we signed Rendon and lost a 2nd round pick.

Those first rounders do tend to have a lot more talent than not in the first round. We did lose a first round pick under Eppler, SS Wilson, as a part of a package to salary dump.

ihearhowie3.0
Trusted Member
1 year ago
Reply to  VictoriousVIC

Friedman turned down the opportunity here before to hold out for a real job with real supportive ownership in the Dodgers.

Arte just showed his ass by leading the pack in letting go scouts and not paying 19 year olds. Something tells me people passionate about player development aren’t coming here and Arte isn’t interested in paying them anyway.

eyespy
Super Member
1 year ago
Reply to  ihearhowie3.0

Arte isn’t going to invest in something that has a league average 90% fail rate, and we are the ones bringing it down.

VictoriousVIC
Trusted Member
1 year ago
Reply to  ihearhowie3.0

This is why to me Arte is a terrible owner. He spends on big name free agents? Ok cool but to me being a great owner is treating his employees with respect. That is something Arte is the worst at amongst all owners and this year proved it. I have lost all respect for Arte and don’t think he’ll ever earn it back for whatever that’s worth.

Senator_John_Blutarsky
Super Member
Reply to  VictoriousVIC

I’m too GA to do the research, but the signings / trade that brought us The Machine, Hambone and Vernone are attributed to Arte. That’s around $500m in contract value. I wonder, did Arte break even on those deals? Make money? Lost money?

Rahul Setty
Admin
Trusted Member
1 year ago
Reply to  ihearhowie3.0

100 percent. Why would any prospective GM worth their salt come to Anaheim, only to be micromanaged and overruled?

JackFrost
Super Member
1 year ago
Reply to  Rahul Setty

This is a good question. We’ll know the answer when we see the hire. If it is another newbie then we’ll know it is more of the same on the way and that Arte will be giving marching orders and making key personnel decisions. IF, however it is Dombrowski, then I’d think we have reason to believe Arte might be moving out of such an active role on the baseball side of things.

Last edited 1 year ago by JackFrost
PatrickNaN
Trusted Member
1 year ago
Reply to  Rahul Setty

Because, at the end of the day, it’s still only 1 of 30 GM jobs that exist.

eyespy
Super Member
1 year ago
Reply to  PatrickNaN

This job could be the kiss of death for your acceptance speech at the Hall

eyespy
Super Member
1 year ago
Reply to  Rahul Setty

To be told at every turn,

“Nope, can’t do that. That either”

“Bro I signed a name, now keep us under the threshold bruh.”

DowningDude
Super Member
1 year ago
Reply to  Warfarin

you said “number 2”

h27kim
Trusted Member
1 year ago
Reply to  Warfarin

Turk’s Teeth.

PatrickNaN
Trusted Member
1 year ago

So, my question is, did anyone here Eppler was extended a year? I sure didn’t. That’s a weird decision right there.

Fansince1971
Super Member
1 year ago
Reply to  PatrickNaN

It was a decision due to Big Brain Brad who was viewed as shouldering the majority of 2019 blame.

Eric_in_Portland
Super Member
1 year ago
Reply to  PatrickNaN

I had no idea. I thought his contract was expiring and today is the first I’ve heard of this.

Jessica DeLine
Admin
Trusted Member
1 year ago
Reply to  PatrickNaN

This org is so secretive they can’t even tell us when they extend a GM. Crazy.

PatrickNaN
Trusted Member
1 year ago
Reply to  Jessica DeLine

I thought maybe I just missed it. I don’t think I’ve ever heard of anything like that. There must be more to rugs story. It makes no sense on its face to have extended Eppler.

Last edited 1 year ago by PatrickNaN
eyespy
Super Member
1 year ago
Reply to  PatrickNaN

Could have happened real quietly before this season started back in May/June

gitchogritchoffmypettis
Super Member
Reply to  PatrickNaN

No. It happened. They announced it. People complained bitterly.

eyespy
Super Member
1 year ago

The second extension. Eppler will be getting paid for the next year. I think you got mixed up with the first extension that happened last year. Unless you have proof that I would gladly like to see. I couldn’t find any, and it looks like much of us had no idea of it, here, and on other sites.

gitchogritchoffmypettis
Super Member
Reply to  eyespy

Oh no. I meant the 5th year they picked up. I didn’t know he got a second extension at all, and since there was no bitter complaining about an actual extension (not his option being picked up) I assume no one knew. People here would have started self harming if an actual EXTENSION had made the news here, but luckily for many the secret was kept, saving the silky forearms and inner thighs of many an Angels fan.

eyespy
Super Member
1 year ago
Reply to  Jessica DeLine

Damn, Arte really spends his money when the threshold isn’t on the line.

Gets the team payroll pretty darn close to the threshold, and handcuffs any moves the GM can make without going over it. So he doesn’t have to pay the other teams to beat him. Mr. Moreno, stay out of the day to day operations of your team.

gitchogritchoffmypettis
Super Member
Reply to  eyespy

It is funny. Who ever gets hired now is being given many of the same problems that were plopped into Epplers lap when he took over. Lots of payroll pile up and not a lot of prospects to trade. Still, I think both situations are better than they were in 2014.

Have fun new guy.

DowningDude
Super Member
1 year ago

Trout – player manager General Manager

Fansince1971
Super Member
1 year ago

Come on – we all hated DiPoto. He was awful. It’s like having two crappy parents and debating who f’d you up less – mom or dad.

2002heaven
Trusted Member
1 year ago
Reply to  Fansince1971

American Beauty movie….LOL!!!
Kevin Spacey or Annette Benning!! 😆 

Fansince1971
Super Member
1 year ago
Reply to  2002heaven

Exactly! Roses falling all over Eppler and DiPoto.

gitchogritchoffmypettis
Super Member
Reply to  Fansince1971

Hot.

Turk's Teeth
Editor
Trusted Member
1 year ago
Reply to  Fansince1971

Eh, I was, and still am, Dipoto-positive. Sorry.

He got three things right:

1.
He produced a winning club three out of four seasons, and produced the best record in baseball one of those seasons. (Eppler had largely the same personnel, and even larger average payrolls, and didn’t produce a winning season once.) If you’re a consequentialist – and as a baseball fan I am exactly that – the most important KPI by which to assess a GM is: did the team win?

2.
He made the pivot to analytics, which was long overdue – he just had a field manager and support staff that weren’t ready for that, and ownership would not let him replace most of the mules who resisted modernization.

3.
He ruthlessly prioritized pitching. And this is existential, and critical. Not every trade works out, not every FA acquisition works out. But Dipoto traded for Heaney, Skaggs, Santiago, Greinke, Street. He coveted Richards, and refused to trade him. While Moreno dictated the acquisitions of Pujols and Hamilton at one-on-one dinners, the guy Dipoto was negotiating for all by himself was CJ Wilson, the last big-dollar pitcher the Angels got this decade. Dipoto rarely had early round picks due to Arte’s “big splashes”, but he expended most of them on pitching: Newcomb, Ellis, Middleton, Alvarez, Long. The only draft where he had all his picks and reasonable draft position, he selected exclusively pitchers in the first five rounds. Meanwhile, he was good at finding bargains on the Latin market: Barria, Suarez, Yan, Soriano were all guys either scouted or signed by Dipoto’s regime (or both).

He couldn’t control all the dynamics of the Angels, given the principals of Moreno and Scioscia, and he was not without mistakes. But he did critical things right: he built winning teams, he prioritized analytics, and he biased to pitching when the decisionmaking *was* up to him.

And since Dipoto left, we’ve seen that he’s good at drafting and development too, when ownership gives him full rein to be. Seattle has built a top-five farm system, their scouting and development crews are considered among the most progressive, technical and advanced in the game, and he’s once again built in waves of pitching in his pipeline. And the 2015 Angels draft class that we used to chuckle at was responsible for four of the guys on the field today: Fletcher, Walsh, Ward and Jones. (Not bad for having the last pick in a really shitty draft.)

Fansince1971
Super Member
1 year ago
Reply to  Turk's Teeth

It’s a good analysis. That said he was generally disliked and he stepped down mid season. For whatever reason he was not the right guy for this team.

I will say that winning seasons may have had to do with a younger Pujols.

I actually think a mythical hybrid between Eppler and DiPoto would make a good GM. Eppler brings solid communication and offense evaluation and Jerry does a better job building a pitching staff.

You really see the great GMs are the ones who can evaluate and build on both offense and defense/pitching.

Turk's Teeth
Editor
Trusted Member
1 year ago
Reply to  Fansince1971

Pujols never even put up a 3 fWAR season for the Angels. I do think it’s a big stretch to say that, for example, the Angels’ 2014 98 win season was on the back of Albert’s .272/.324/.466 slash line.

It’s good to rethink our priors as fans, and revisit conventional wisdom we’ve built up. I hated the 2015 draft, for instance – now it looks pretty extraordinary, all factors considered.

I just can’t fault Dipoto much for butting heads with guys who wanted to take the team backward. We literally just experienced what happens when a GM does that – catering to ownership’s sweettooth for offense while starving the org of necessary food: pitching.

Fansince1971
Super Member
1 year ago
Reply to  Turk's Teeth

The reality is that the things we demonize generally tend to be not so terrible and the things we idolize tend not to be so great. We have become a society of the extreme. This is great. This is awful. The middle ground has been lost.

DiPoto definitely looks better with the benefit of time. As does George Bush. Time is a great healer because the things we were angry about have faded and are not on the front of our brain.

One day, when Adell and Marsh are raking, we may reflect favorably on Eppler.

The bottom line is that neither of these guys were the right guys for the Angels. It’s unfortunate because we have had 10 years of the wrong GMs.

gitchogritchoffmypettis
Super Member
Reply to  Turk's Teeth

I liked Dipoto when we had him. I think if he had kept his cool and not quit midseason we’d all look more fondly on him. He did a good job in limited roles in Arizona/Colorado too if I remember right. Was a nice guy. He just totally lost it over Hamilton after getting dicked around by Scioscia long term. Pujols threw him under a bus…. he just blew up. I think if he’d just resigned after that season we’d like him more.

h27kim
Trusted Member
1 year ago
Reply to  Fansince1971

The trouble is that he was a jerk, an insufferable genius (which we should all realize in retrospect, given how Seattle looks now) who was willing to step on toes in an organization, as has become way too apparent by now, that was way too given to a cult of personalities. (Edit: I suppose it’s probably more accurate to say that DiPoto didn’t fit into the kind of “organizational culture” that existed and continues to exist within the Angels organization, and couldn’t reconcile with the team owner. While I suppose that doesn’t make him a “jerk,” it does make him a terrible fit) And we are still given to a cult of personalities: we keep looking for a big name or two, whether in FO or on roster, to turn things around, rather than build the organization. Yet, focus on big splashy names that draw attention is exactly how someone from billboard background would be naturally thinkin, and in terms of making money, maybe it wasn’t that bad an idea–Pujols did help Arte get that big TV deal, no? We’ll keep getting disappointed for some time to come, though, if we want results.

Last edited 1 year ago by h27kim
rez2405
Trusted Member
1 year ago
Reply to  Turk's Teeth

But again.. you talk about “impact”

Impact to me is a guy who is a stalwart.. a dependable guy. He doesn’t even have to be a horse or an ace or heck even an all star.

Very few at best of all the guys you mentioned have been an “impact”. Heaney? Barria? Maybe? Im trying to find a case for your argument

Grienke was had at the expense of Segura. And he also traded away Clevinger if you want to bring up a total body of work.

Risky players? It. does. Not. Matter. It was under his watch. That’s how it goes in this business.

Last edited 1 year ago by rez2405
Turk's Teeth
Editor
Trusted Member
1 year ago
Reply to  rez2405

It’s about building teams, not nailing every individual move. He built a 98 win team in his third year, and the Angels built winning records and were competitive in three of the four seasons he helmed.

He set the team on the right path: focusing on young, cheap pitching; trying to build in analytics up and down the system; keeping the MLB team winning in the middle of it all.

Every Angels fan who demonizes Dipoto based on individual player outcomes seems to ignore team outcomes, win-loss records, and strategic positioning. I don’t get it.

(And I’ve rehearsed the Segura and Clevinger trades well enough the past several years. Clevinger was an injured 23 yo non-prospect with a 5+ ERA in A ball when he was traded, a guy that no one talked about for 18 months until Cleveland built him into something most teams can’t. And Segura had exactly one standout season with MIL in the 3.5 seasons after he was traded. No one wins every trade, but both made sense at the time.)

gitchogritchoffmypettis
Super Member
Reply to  Turk's Teeth

Yes but…. he traded Clevinger and Segura. Why are you letting facts cloud your rage? Just type something about how stupid JerJer is.

And yes. Along the same lines of how I believe many around here can’t grasp that arte is far from the worst owner in baseball and won’t until we have a truly bad owner, Eppler will likely be seen as more of a positive down the line too, perhaps after a guy like Dombrowski sells our teams kidneys to buy cruise tickets.

2002heaven
Trusted Member
1 year ago

He’s the worst owner in this area right now.
Yes beneath former Dodger’s owner Frank McCourt who didn’t let the financial issues affect the team’s top shelf level scouting and player development. Will be interesting to hear Roger Lodge’s spin and cry time for Billy tomorrow.

rez2405
Trusted Member
1 year ago
Reply to  2002heaven

Him and Trent Rush sometimes are over the top with positivity.

I know they mean well.. and this sounds cruel but sometimes a dose of reality is a good thing

Rahul Setty
Admin
Trusted Member
1 year ago
Reply to  Turk's Teeth

To be completely fair, Dipoto inherited a good chunk of the success to his predecessors (Howie Kendrick, Erick Aybar, Kole Calhoun/Matt Shoemaker developed unexpectedly well, etc).

El_Duderino
Trusted Member
1 year ago
Reply to  Rahul Setty

Exactly.

hockey_duckie
Member
1 year ago
Reply to  Rahul Setty

Talk about inheriting, Dipoto turned Kendrick into Heaney, while saving $9.5 mil in 2015, his last year of his contract. Dipoto left a lot of young pitching behind for Eppler too. You like Fletcher, right?

Dipoto used that talent to improve the team’s winning pct. What did Eppler do? He collected a lot of shiny bits, but the collection netted five losing seasons.

rez2405
Trusted Member
1 year ago
Reply to  Turk's Teeth

And thats the thing.. whos responsible for putting the staff in place build a player into something? …. The GM

Who’s responsible for making the trade? …. the GM

Whos responsible for doing the scouting.. the evaluations…. and so on..

Thats why I said It. Just. Does. Not. Matter. If nobody saw it coming.

Does the guy whos at fault in a car accident get away scott free when he claims.. “oh! Oh…. sorry officer I just didn’t see him! He…. he came out of nowhere!” lol

Oh Segura and Clevinger came out of nowhere? Oh ok… then its ok then.. carry on! lol

Last edited 1 year ago by rez2405
rez2405
Trusted Member
1 year ago
Reply to  Turk's Teeth

By the way …. i see nobody has brought up our most lovable prospect .. Baldoquin yet. 😀

eyespy
Super Member
1 year ago
Reply to  rez2405

There was a reason. [gritting teeth]

El_Duderino
Trusted Member
1 year ago
Reply to  Turk's Teeth

Overall good points. But how much of the core of his team were already in place when DiPoto arrived? I still believe Jerry was very good at focusing on and attaining mediocre-level pitching, sometimes out of nowhere. In retrospect, we do need to acknowledge him bringing a more technical approach to the front-office.

By our own logic, the Mariners have still been terrible since DiPoto arrived.

hockey_duckie
Member
1 year ago
Reply to  Turk's Teeth

I was indifferent on Eppler as I viewed ownership the culprit of the Dipoto split. It was Turks who brought up the fact that we were well on our way to another losing season during year 3 of Eppler. By that time, we know the pattern – prioritize positional players over pitchers.

We can look at RS and RA as proof of Dipoto’s directive worked.

Dipoto
2012: RS = 767, RA = 699, Diff = +68; win pct = 0.549
2013: RS = 733, RA = 737, Diff = -4; win pct = 0.481
2014: RS = 773, RA = 630, Diff = +143; win pct = 0.605, AL West champs
2015: RS = 661, RA = 675, Diff = +14; win pct = 0.525

Eppler
2016: RS = 717, RA = 727, Diff = -10; win pct = 0.457
2017: RS = 710, RA = 709, Diff = +1; win pct = 0.494
2018: RS = 721, RA = 722, Diff = +1; win pct = 0.494
2019: RS = 769, RA = 868, Diff = +99; win pct = 0.444
2020: RS = 294, RA = 321, Diff = +27; win pct = 0.433; 60-game season

If we use the rate of this 60-game season to 162-game season, then RS = 793 and RA = 866.

There isn’t one season under Eppler were it prevented the other team from scoring under 700 runs on us. The goal is to win games. Dipoto and Eppler had different philosophies on doing that while also being constrained under the same dictatorship. Dipoto learned quick after trading away a good haul for P Grienke only to lose Grienke (the assets gave up for him) as well as a 1st round pick when Moreno went out to get Hambone instead. That was the 2013 off-season where Dipoto scrambled to pick up the unfavorable foursome in pitching. Dipoto had to trade for young pitchers under cost control because Arte wouldn’t pay for an ace to keep an ace.

Eppler rode on the pitching gathered by Dipoto for his whole tenure along with trading pitching away for positional players.

Eppler and Dipoto have been GMs of their respective franchises for the past five years. The Mariners finished 1 game ahead of the Angels, both with losing records this year. Yet, there’s so much more promise with the Mariners than there is with the Angels. Which is why Eppler got fired and Dipoto remains. Dipoto’s trade deadline dealing with San Diego is like icing on the cake by adding two to his MLB roster as well as another chip into the prospect pool talent. Then he picked up a hurler on the waiver wire on the like day of the season.

Turk hit it on the nail. Seattle gave Dipoto what the Angels couldn’t give – full reins.

Whoever the next GM is, that person needs to know there are limitations involved that will overrule the GM decision.

Fansince1971
Super Member
1 year ago

Y’all gonna hate this but if you want a GM who will immediately change the entire system and show mad GM skills, bring in Luhnow. He’s hungry to rebuild his reputation and is top-5 in the business.

Guest
1 year ago
Reply to  Fansince1971

He’d have to quit his gig at Waste Management, dunno ’bout that.

Fansince1971
Super Member
1 year ago
Reply to 

Hahaha – it doesn’t matter, it’s gonna be Dumbo. Hopefully he insists on investment in baseball operations to take the job.

Guest
1 year ago
Reply to  Fansince1971

Ok, we need someone with a good nickname and a ready-made graphic. I’m on board!

Fansince1971
Super Member
1 year ago
Reply to 

Yeah Arte could probably find some Dumbo cutouts underneath the stands somewhere left over from 2001 when Disney was considering the rally elephant.

Last edited 1 year ago by Fansince1971
2002heaven
Trusted Member
1 year ago
Reply to 

Double D but that could be a loaded double meaning!

nishiogawakun
Trusted Member
1 year ago
Reply to  Fansince1971

Hard pass

rez2405
Trusted Member
1 year ago
Reply to  nishiogawakun

agreed. Extremely hard pass

eyespy
Super Member
1 year ago
Reply to  rez2405

No way Arte is going to pick someone who broke the rules, and got caught. Luhnow le’loser

2002heaven
Trusted Member
1 year ago

Better than Ed Bane…….perrish the thot! 😆 
Hey as long as you hit two HR’s ( Jered Weaver, Mike Trout ), and nothing in between.