Angels Sign Jose Cisnero

The Angels signed right-hander Jose Cisnero to a one year deal worth $1.75 Million in guaranteed money. They designated Livan Soto for assignment. Cisnero once pitched for the Astros but has been in the independent leagues for the last several years except for when he was with the Detroit Tigers. Here is his page on Baseball Reference. It appears he is another budget middle innings guy. They must have redefined “Aggressive.”

Photo credit: Rex Fregosi

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angelslogic
Super Member
4 months ago

Aggressive? No. Aggravating is more like it.

Angelz4ever
Super Member
4 months ago

Hey Arte, Jesse Chavez is still available, just wanted to throw that out there.

halofansince1978
Super Member
4 months ago

More mediocrity.

Angelz4ever
Super Member
4 months ago

…the descent

AngelsFanInHell
Trusted Member
4 months ago

Who?

Angelz4ever
Super Member
4 months ago

Ground control to Major Tom?

I know some moves don’t get the fanbase excited, but Goddam Sam, these signings are getting lost AF…..

Cowboy26
Legend
4 months ago

I’m also thinking this means Joyce starts the season at AAA. I don’t think the Angels will get rid of Suarez since hes left handed and out of options and they need a long reliever in the pen. So unless Soriano is going to be the guy to got to for more than one inning, (or get sent down) There isn’t really a place for Joyce now.

Senator_John_Blutarsky
Legend
4 months ago
Reply to  Cowboy26

Good point, which is part of the reason why I’m confounded by what Perry is doing. He drafts 21 pitchers a few years back and his focus in the offseason is signing “pitching projects”?

Cowboy26
Legend
4 months ago

Actually the 2021 draft was not that bad but it wasn’t that great either. The Angels had 20 picks ( they signed 19) of those Silseth & Bachman (despite the injuries) have showed promise but , unfortunately a number of Promising Pitching Prospects (Bush, Marceaux & Albright) were traded in last years failed attempt to win one for the Unicorn) While there is still hope for some of the remaining drafted pitchers such as Cousteiu, Murphy Torres and others, the window is closing quickly .

Considering the bereft of talent in the organization then and still now, I dont blame Perry for still needing more pitching. You only get around 20 draft picks now with a limited bonus slot system and the international market takes years to develop.

BTW the one who got away , Marcelo Perez was drafted the next year in the 11th round by the Mariners and is Turning into a nice prospect. Too Bad there wasn’t enough money to sign him since the excess $1,000,000 signing bonus funds were used on the high school kid Mason Albright who now pitches for the Rockies.

Eric_in_Portland
Legend
4 months ago

IIWPM, February edition

Sign Matt Bush, reliever. Pros: Experienced, was ok for part of 2022. Corresponding 40 man roster move: DFA Caden Dana

Sign Kike Hernandez, IF. Pros: Had a good 2015, experienced. Corresponding move: DFA Kyren Paris

Sign Luke Voit, DH. Pros: ex-Yankee, large, had a good 2020. Corresponding move: DFA Kike Hernandez, Matt Bush, or Aaron Hicks

tanana40
Super Member
4 months ago

I had to re-read this a couple of times to see what you are doing.

Fansince1971
Legend
4 months ago

The chasm of Sar!

cookmeister
Trusted Member
4 months ago

i enjoyed that…… but Dana isn’t on the 40 man lol

Eric_in_Portland
Legend
4 months ago
Reply to  cookmeister

Heh. I admit I was too GA to check

Cowboy26
Legend
4 months ago

https://twitter.com/TaylorBlakeWard/status/1753954562015383777

Actually last year, Cisneros started off hot through the end of June. He had a 2.03 ERA, .616 OPS Against , 9.9 Ks/9 2.83 K’s/BBs 0.9 HRs/9 and then the wheels came off . Even though the strikeout numbers actually improved in the last half ( 11.43 K’s/9) , he got lit up like a pinball machine. (8.89 ERA .981 OPS against, 2.23 HR/9) Which makes you wonder, was this due to some bad luck (.416 BABIP) or maybe he was tipping pitches? Or maybe he’s like many other 34 year old journeyman relief pitchers (soon to be 35) who just lose it one day .

According to Statcast though his average fastball velocity was still pretty good at 95.8 MPH (ranking him 61st in qualifying pitchers) BUT thats quite a bit slower than hes average 4-seamer velocity of 96.7 MPH in 2021.

Seems like this should have been a Minor league deal with an invitation to Spring Training.

SchofieldsWalkoff
Trusted Member
4 months ago
Reply to  Cowboy26

Digging into the 2nd half numbers they look pretty good for a middle reliever outside of 5 outing in which he was tagged for 17 runs.

Contact seems to be in line with his last 4 years of production.

Last edited 4 months ago by SchofieldsWalkoff
Angelstan
Trusted Member
4 months ago

Yes, he has 4 years of somewhat consistent production and one bad half year — perhaps due to injury. Let’s assume injury was the cause. A decent deal if he was hurt or had a solvable problem after June of last year.

FungoAle
Legend
4 months ago
Reply to  Cowboy26

Totally agree, invitation to Spring is more preferable. Perry is fishing here. Throws hard but his hard hit rate was bottom 10%, barrel rate ranked towards league lows in 2023 while very good in 2021.The clock is probably ticking and league has caught up with his stuff.

matthiasstephan
Super Member
4 months ago
Reply to  FungoAle

I am encouraged by the K/BB ratio (though less enamored with the amount of hits given up).

Eric_in_Portland
Legend
4 months ago

I like the logic that Soto’s nice 2022 showing was a fluke because his 2023 was not so hot but Cisnero’s 5.31 in 2023 must have been the fluke because his 2022 1.08 shows how good he is. Of course, when you look a little closer at that 1.08 ERA you might notice 19 walks in 25 innings. Anyway, ignore the 84 ERA+ in 2023

Jeff Joiner
Editor
Legend
4 months ago

Don’t see him as an upgrade over Wantz.

So Perry essentially jettisons the young Livan Soto in order to add the old Cisnero for one year, who isn’t even an upgrade.

There’s a chance Soto never pans out. There’s a chance he’s an MLB utility guy. But the more lottery tickets we lose, the fewer chances we have to find desperately needed depth.

Cowboy26
Legend
4 months ago
Reply to  Jeff Joiner

Theres also a viable chance that Soto clears waivers and returns to AAA and we just let our hair catch on fire for no reason.

It’s an interestingly constructed 40 man.with 25 pitchers taking up spots.

matthiasstephan
Super Member
4 months ago
Reply to  Cowboy26

I am also hopeful we can stash Soto back in AAA.

55yearsangelsfan
Trusted Member
4 months ago

Okay as a AAA depth piece. 1.75 million guaranteed? That’s somewhere between stupid and ludicrous.

WallyChuckChili
Legend
4 months ago

Perry will probably outright him like Kolarek. He is not going to refuse 1.75m.

Cowboy26
Legend
4 months ago

Kolarek didn’t have enough service time to give up his money for free agency, but Cisneros does. That aint happening

WallyChuckChili
Legend
4 months ago
Reply to  Cowboy26
Cowboy26
Legend
4 months ago

Why? it just confirmed what I previously said Remember the David Fletcher moves from last year?

https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2023/04/angels-outright-david-fletcher.html

But I wont just leave it right there. Let me highlight the salient parts that explain why The Angels can’t just DFA Cisneros at their leisure without giving him his money:

There’s surely some amount of strategy in the Halos’ timing of the outright. Any player with over three years of major league service time can refuse an outright assignment in favor of minor league free agency. However, players with between three and five years of service would have to forfeit any remaining guaranteed money on their contract to do so.

So unless Cisneros has less than 5 years of service time ( BBRef says 5,02 years) If you dump him you eat the money unless some other team its foolish to pick him up.

Last edited 4 months ago by Cowboy26
WallyChuckChili
Legend
4 months ago
Reply to  Cowboy26

He could’ve given up his money and elected free agency. So Perry could outright Cisnero just like Kolarek and Cisnero would not let his 1.75m guarantee go just like Kolarek didn’t let his 900k go.

Because Kolarek has been previously outrighted in his career, he would have the right to reject this assignment and re-enter free agency, though he would also be walking away from that $900K salary.

Cowboy26
Legend
4 months ago

Yes we agree on Kolerak and the reason why Kolerak has to walk away from the money if he doesn’t want to go to the minors is……

However, players with between three and five years of service would have to forfeit any remaining guaranteed money on their contract to do so.

But guess what happens when player has MORE than five years of service time?….You dont have to go to the minors AND you dont have to give up the Money.

For example ( and there thousands more !) WTF do you think the Yankees didn’t just send Aaron Hicks to the minors when they released him even though they’re still paying the remaining balance of his $70 million contract? (less the league minimum of course) Because had too much service time.

C O M P R E N D O ?

Last edited 4 months ago by Cowboy26
WallyChuckChili
Legend
4 months ago
Reply to  Cowboy26

Was looking at different Tigers RP. Blended Cisnero and Soto. I had Soto’s page up. 4 years service. They may not be twins but shit they could pass a siblings.

Fansince1971
Legend
4 months ago

Come meet the new relief pitcher, same as the old relief pitcher.

MarineLayer
Super Member
4 months ago

At this point, I’d prefer the infielder, with almost zero depth there on the 40 man.

Cowboy26
Legend
4 months ago
Reply to  MarineLayer

You mean having just Kyren Paris, Jordyn Adams or Mikey Stefanic to fill one bench spot is not enough depth for you ?

Of course if Soto passes through waivers this discussion becomes moot

Last edited 4 months ago by Cowboy26
MarineLayer
Super Member
4 months ago
Reply to  Cowboy26

I think only Stefanic has a chance for the bench spot of that remaining group, Soto would have been second, and the only one who is actually able to play SS defensively at the MLB level. Not that he was a great option either.

Cowboy26
Legend
4 months ago
Reply to  MarineLayer

Thats why there has to be another move or 2 coming here.

Twebur
Legend
4 months ago

redefined “Aggressive.”

Aggressively ignorant

Senator_John_Blutarsky
Legend
4 months ago
Reply to  Twebur

Aggressively committed to mediocrity?

WallyChuckChili
Legend
4 months ago

Aggressively Steeped in TrAdition!

Simba
Trusted Member
4 months ago
Reply to  Twebur

Passive aggressive.

Senator_John_Blutarsky
Legend
4 months ago
Reply to  Simba

Aggressively passive