LA Angels Monday News Crash: O’Hoppe Days

Legend

Eric_in_Portland

1 month ago

The Angels will get hot again, win 7 of 10. Then they’ll lose 4 straight. The new goal is 82-80

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Super Member

Kiyotchan

1 month ago

I am aware our rainbow farter leader Pineapple is taking a break from CtPG, but I think he is still checking out the site. He was interested in knowing how Sho’s alma mater, Hanamaki East high school would be doing in national Koshien tournament. I am happy to report that they are leading 3-0 after five innings in the first round game.

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Super Member

Kiyotchan

1 month ago

Reply to Kiyotchan

Hanamaki East is leading 4-0 after 7 innings.

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Super Member

Kiyotchan

1 month ago

Reply to Kiyotchan

Hanamaki East is on to the second round, to be played this Sunday, Japan time. This is a good omen.

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Legend

DowningDude

1 month ago

Reply to Kiyotchan

Higashi is east.

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Super Member

Kiyotchan

1 month ago

Bazzana could be first Australian to be drafted No. 1 overall.

https://www.mlb.com/news/travis-bazzana-looking-to-make-australian-baseball-history

I didn’t realize that Oregon State 2nd baseman was Australian (Oy!). Also, I discovered another avenue for non American or non Puerto Rican to be drafted in USA, by going to a high school or college here. I don’t know how Oregon State will do in its probably last season in Pac 12, but Beavers hopefully do decently enough to host next year’s college baseball regional.

Last edited 1 month ago by Kiyotchan

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Legend

DowningDude

1 month ago

Reply to Kiyotchan

He will go to Savannah.

Savannah Bazzana

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Legend

Fansince1971

1 month ago

For any of you out there who like to read and are interested in the type of changes to this Org that might pay off big dividends, I recommend this book:

“Game of Edges: The Analytics Revolution and the Future of Professional Sports”

Last edited 1 month ago by Fansince1971

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Legend

Eric_in_Portland

1 month ago

dunno why Anderson gets a 6 game suspension and Ramirez only 3.

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Super Member

Kiyotchan

1 month ago

Reply to Eric_in_Portland

I think Anderson has history of being ejected while Ramirez got ejected for the first time in his career. Unless being knocked out (that was beautiful right hook by Ramirez) for standard 8 count adds extra 3 games in baseball rule. 😉

Last edited 1 month ago by Kiyotchan

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Super Member

ihearhowie3.0

1 month ago

Reply to Eric_in_Portland

He’s the one who put his hands up ready to box. Definitely escalated it from pushing and yelling to punches.

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Editor

Legend

Jeff Joiner

1 month ago

Reply to Eric_in_Portland

Anderson took it to a physical level. Also has plenty of history for starting stuff like this.

Plus they know he’ll appeal so now they can still get him for 4 games or so.

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Super Member

BannedInLA

1 month ago

Lost in our ongoing waking nightmare is the fact that Chase Silseth may have arrived as a viable starter in this league.

7 IP
4 Hits
1 Walk
12 K’s
2 ER

His ERA on the season is now 3.72

Another core piece.

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Editor

Legend

Jeff Joiner

1 month ago

Reply to BannedInLA

Was really nice watching him yesterday.

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Super Member

BannedInLA

1 month ago

Reply to Jeff Joiner

There’s always the concern that the small sample
size is fools gold, but he appears to have “the stuff”
for it to be sustainable.

This team could certainly benefit from Silseth becoming a reliable #2 or #3 starter.

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Super Member

Kiyotchan

1 month ago

S/L/R/L/R/L/R/L/R Pitcher is L
https://twitter.com/JeffFletcherOCR/status/1688660932493561859

Forgot to mention yesterday that If the Angels score in the first inning AND are leading, then the Angels are perfect. Let’s go Halos!

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Super Member

Kiyotchan

1 month ago

Zack Weiss has been called up. It is Weiss decision. It would be even Weisser if the Angels eliminate certain Weiss pitching coach.

Last edited 1 month ago by Kiyotchan

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Legend

Twebur

1 month ago

Reply to Kiyotchan

Wise, Wantz, Webb, Weiss……..Why.

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Super Member

BannedInLA

1 month ago

Reply to Twebur

Don’t be a Weiss Guy !!!

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Trusted Member

Troutstrikeout

1 month ago

What a weekend, Angels and Pac 12 disintegrated simultaneously

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Super Member

Kiyotchan

1 month ago

Reply to Troutstrikeout

Mookie Betts probably crushed Padres playoff chance by ‘Marlowe’ like grand slam. Padres are following Angels path to purgatory; it just took one more day.

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Super Member

Kiyotchan

1 month ago

“Never bite the hand that feeds you.”

Kevin Brown, play by play announcer for the Orioles, has been suspended since July 23 because he just mentioned some negative facts about the Birds.
https://twitter.com/MattJergs/status/1688563424014344192

I applaud Moreno for not firing Mark Langston yet.

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Super Member

tanana40

1 month ago

Reply to Kiyotchan

Mark has been honest for the last several seasons. He loves the Angels but gets so frustrated. Mark does not need the money, he must do this because he loves it. It must be tough for Terry and him to do road games in Anaheim.

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Legend

Fansince1971

1 month ago

Reply to tanana40

Another bad choice by Arte. Given the fact that he has to fly all the players etc out to the games, how much more would it really cost to send the radio broadcast team? For long-term fans, listening to baseball on the radio is a joy. The quality of the radio broadcast has understandably gone downhill for road games bc of the penny-wise, pound foolish decision by Moreno.

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Super Member

Kiyotchan

1 month ago

Reply to tanana40

It has to be way less than 0.1 percent of the whole payroll to pay for Terry and Mark’s per diem to broadcast 81 away games. Are there any other MLB team who have done the same for their radio broadcast team?

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Member

CAoldskoll

1 month ago

Everyone hates Arte, but I don’t think he is a horrible owner. We had great teams when he took over, led by Valdy, Colon, Weave, Kendrick. Won division a few times but could not get past RSoxs and Yanks super teams during that time. We signed Pujols which was a huge deal in MLB though he faded later as predicted. We got allstar Tori Hunter, then made another huge signing with mvp Josh Hamilton. Hamilton would be the start of Arte’s plunge. Guy was a drug up flop and we released him while still paying his contract for yrs. After that shaft Arte felt reluctant to go after anymore stars. We tried backing up Trout with guys like Matt Joyce, Cameron Maybin, and the joke of Cozart. Pitching suffered. Then came the Trout contract, finally a thumbs up for Arte. Ohtani came in then we paid star Rendon. Can’t blame Arte for Rendone, so many teams wanted him also, but just our luck. To the present, Arte went all in and most of you were ecstatic, unfortun it did not work, but he tried.. I think Arte will match anything other teams offer Ohtani. Sure many want a new owner but who guarantees they will be better? Look how Jeter gutted the Marlins of their star players, they could have had a dynasty. Never know

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Legend

Twebur

1 month ago

Reply to CAoldskoll

His early success in Free Agency was his downfall. He thought he had it figured out, no need for wasting money with organizational building and maintenance, no need for a high level front office….My instincts will lead me to the next Vlad and Bart, I have that magic JuJu, I’m different.

He won’t change, that’s why he is a horrible owner.

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Trusted Member

Jayman28

1 month ago

Reply to Twebur

He’s too stubborn to change and is stuck in his own ways. He refuses to catch up with the times.

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Legend

Fansince1971

1 month ago

Reply to CAoldskoll

Have to look at last 12 years. He has defunded minor league system, scouting, player development etc. He has turned this into a marketing-first Org not a baseball Org. He needs to go.

I do agree with one thing you imply – we could get a much worse owner. But I am hopeful that the cost of franchises these days brings smart money to the table and an owner who understands the importance of focusing on building a quality baseball organization.

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Trusted Member

2GA2Join

1 month ago

Reply to Fansince1971

I agree with this view.
I was excited with the announcement of the sale… and then bummed when he reversed course. However, that said, I do not think he is a horrible owner, and I feel that people go a little over the top with the hate. At least he was willing to spend big money and treat the team as a big market team, instead of the small market team excuse that labeled this team my whole childhood.
However, I definitely agree that he seems to have created a “marketing show” out of the Angels instead of good baseball management, and that is really keeping us from good results in the win column. We need someone who will run things differently.

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Trusted Member

Jayman28

1 month ago

Reply to Fansince1971

Even if the new owner is worse, at least taking the gamble was worth it. Sometimes people understand change can be good and complacency is super unhealthy.

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Trusted Member

Jayman28

1 month ago

Reply to CAoldskoll

You never know until you try, life is like a gamble, and sometimes taking a risk is worth it over staying put. And actually the Marlins were in a batter position until their GM Kim Possible drank Perry the Platypus kool aid and traded their top pitching prospect for a C-Level player. But they Marlins had to get rid of those “stars” because they were a burden on the payroll and not performing, plus they invested most of it on scouting and their farm system.

You noticed Vlad’s, Torii’s, maybe CJ’s, and Darren Oliver’s contracts turned out to be reasonable, but the rest was like wasting money on a Range Rover.

Arte forgot that he owned a baseball team and thought he was still running a marketing agency just based on his how the organization is structured.

I thought most of his Free Agent signings except for CJ Wilson (I’ll take an L on that), Torii Hunter, Vladdy, and Darren Oliver were just disasters waiting to happen because Arte wanted walking billboards instead of building a balanced team.

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Editor

Legend

Jeff Joiner

1 month ago

Reply to CAoldskoll

Arte took over a franchise that had a competent front office, solid farm system, and good core of MLB talent. He rode what was handed to him and was successful.

But once his college buddies replaced that front office, everything went downhill.

Check out this piece I wrote last year: https://crashingthepearlygates.com/2022/10/06/arte-morenos-legacy-of-abject-failure/

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Legend

Fansince1971

1 month ago

Reply to Jeff Joiner

Jeff – I read this article when you first wrote it but it resonates even more now. It seems like season after season, the stench that is the Arte Moreno baseball Org gets worse and worse. We can only hope that this is his last season as the owner.

I happen to think that an abject failure of a season .where the Angels maybe win something like 75 games would make it more likely for him to sell. So I guess that is what I am going to root for now. It’s a hopeful vote for an Arte-free future.

Jeff – I think you would really enjoy the book I recommended above.

“Game of Edges: The Analytics Revolution and the Future of Professional Sports”

Last edited 1 month ago by Fansince1971

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Super Member

MarineLayer

1 month ago

Reply to Jeff Joiner

Nothing has changed except the need to add RenDone to the list of FA fails.

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Super Member

AnAngelsFan

1 month ago

Oh my, the heading for last night’s game wrap on the Angels’ website is the “Angels look to turn the page.”

For a marketing-based organization, they sure are out of touch with the trigger-warnings for the most loyal portion of their fan base.

Last edited 1 month ago by AnAngelsFan

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Legend

Fansince1971

1 month ago

Reply to AnAngelsFan

Ha! So true

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Super Member

Kiyotchan

1 month ago

Jacob Webb has been claimed by the Orioles. They have also traded for Fujinami, who in his first year in MLB will most likely be in the playoffs. Do the Orioles have magic potion to fix problems in ‘bad’ pitchers?

Between Japanese high school baseball BFFs, Fujinami 1 Ohtani (most likely) 0.

Baseball is sometimes cruel.

Last edited 1 month ago by Kiyotchan

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Trusted Member

DMAGZ13

1 month ago

I’m willing to suffer losing Ohtani, Trout and my dignity if it means we can also dump Arte, Carpino, Rendon, Perry, Nevin, Wise, Thames, Rodger Lodge, Trent Rush, Sam Blum, the shitty LA Times writers, Manfred’s umpire attacks and Stephen A Smith talking about us.

I’d rather go back to being the small team that wasn’t in the crosshairs of every shitty negative energy thing. We did really well with those players that were raised in that culture. The great thing was Vladdy was such a good dude that somehow we never fell into that trap, but as soon as Pujols was signed that’s what happened with us. Being an Angels fan has been too much emotionally for me. I grew up on horrible early 90s teams but I wasn’t as depressed as I am now.

Last edited 1 month ago by DMAGZ13

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Trusted Member

DMAGZ13

1 month ago

Reply to DMAGZ13

But just to add to that, it lease give us owners that are going to join the modern game and be committed to what it takes to win on the baseball field everyday. I don’t care if they spend it on sexy free agents if it means they just invest in youth and coaching. I just want to see good sound fundamental execution of baseball. Pitchers who throw strikes and outsmart hitters, hitters who elevate themselves in big moments to score runs and fielding that looks routine not an adventure.

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Super Member

MarineLayer

1 month ago

Reply to DMAGZ13

I down with it. I’ve been rooting for this team since 1961, and I fe l the most hopeless this year.

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Legend

Twebur

1 month ago

When does CTPG start the “2023 Season Ending Exit/Debriefing Meetings?”
Can I get on the schedule asap, want to transition into following my disappointing, underachieving, mouth breathing NFL team.

Long Live trAdition! Go Team! Angels Suck, Saddest Donkey Forever! Kill ShuffleBot!

Thanks.

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Super Member

BannedInLA

1 month ago

Reply to Twebur

Raider fan?

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Legend

Twebur

1 month ago

Reply to BannedInLA

Unfortunately the Browns….the Raiders who are among the worst teams ever in the Draft in the past decades still are better than the Browns.

In recent years the Browns have supposedly turned the corner with their roster building, kind of like the Angels, but it will end the same….in dissatisfaction, disappointment and shame.

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Trusted Member

Jayman28

1 month ago

Reply to Twebur

As a Rams fan, I’m just going to watch the rebuild this year. They have some young talent that should be fun to watch

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Super Member

BannedInLA

1 month ago

One game does not a season make, but damn if Thursday’s meltdown wasn’t something along those lines.

I think that singular loss was the most impactful by a long shot.

Momentum is “thing”, particularly in sports and if we win Thursday after 8 innings of 1 run ball + a Shohei bomb, we go on to win this series.

Following the Thursday implosion, the tension and stress was palpable.

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Trusted Member

aces666high

1 month ago

Reply to BannedInLA

The problem with this is that they’ve had more than their share of “one game does not a season make but” debacles this year. Terrible losses, embarrassing defeats. I’m not going to bother adding up all of them but I’d say they’re brushing up in at least 7-8 of those “how did they blow that one” losses.

Where would that put them in the playoff race? How would they change the mindset of this team if they’d won those games, even just half of them? Victor Rojas on Angels Win podcast (good show btw, no sugarcoating) said it best. They’ve played like a .500 team all year even before the injuries, they are what their record says. They’re consistently inconsistent. Take away the Colorado game and their run differential is negative. They’re just not a good team.

Remember when some were saying it was an easier path to take the division than get into the WC? Now they’re 10 back for the former and 7 or so from the latter. To boot there’s more teams in front of them now and more teams breathing right down their necks.

Could they pull off a miracle? Sure. They’re usually on the wrong side if those but there’s always a chance. But as poorly run this team is from top to bottom, I just don’t see it.

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Super Member

BannedInLA

1 month ago

Reply to aces666high

You’re correct that a loss in April counts the same as loss in September, but let’s face it, the Thursday implosion had a very detrimental impact on this team beyond the one game in the standings.

Can they rebound from this? Theoretically possible, but incredibly remote.

I was completely in favor of the Angels buying if they were “in it”. Thru July 31st they were indeed “in it” and became buyers.

The players haven’t performed. Disappointing to be sure.

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Trusted Member

2GA2Join

1 month ago

Reply to BannedInLA

It is interesting to see how you and many others were convinced we were “in it” up until the deadline, along with the analysis provided above that we were a .500 team.
With all those WC positions nowadays, the bar for being “in it” is so far lower than it was when I was younger.

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Legend

Cowboy26

1 month ago

Reply to 2GA2Join

Maybe because theres 3 division winners and 3 wild card teams in each league?

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Trusted Member

2GA2Join

1 month ago

Reply to Cowboy26

That is my point.

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Super Member

BannedInLA

1 month ago

Reply to 2GA2Join

They were mathematically “in it” and had good reason to believe that the team would be legit playoff contenders considering the acquisitions along with key players returning from IL.

Sports and baseball in particular is a game of streaks & momentum.

It was logical team management to go for it when they did. I supported it then and I support it now.

Sometimes the roll of the dice goes sideways.

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Super Member

Charles Sutton

1 month ago

Reply to BannedInLA

Uh oh! The Devil jumped up.

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Legend

Fansince1971

1 month ago

Reply to BannedInLA

Well, this is the problem and blessing with three division, winners, and three wildcards. It causes a feeling of being.”in it” when in reality, the team was always hovering around .500 and was never that good even with a healthy Trout and Ohtani. All of those playoff spots play a role.- they cause emotional fans to feel like they have a chance, and therefore not give up on the season prior to spending more money on going to games and buying concessions as well as merchandise. All of this has worked perfectly for MLB and to plan as we can see on this site.

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Legend

Fansince1971

1 month ago

Reply to BannedInLA

As for the deadline moves – I disagree. In my opinion, they gave up way too much of their already weak farm for two month rentals of just OK players. It’s not that I don’t understand the decision to go all in – it probably was justifiable under the circumstances. I jjust think the players that they got for two months – and the ones that they gave up were not advisable.

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Super Member

BannedInLA

1 month ago

Reply to Fansince1971

Deadline trades involving prospects for veterans are by definition a gamble.

We won’t know for at least a few years if the prospects surrendered will amount to anything in the Bigs – odds are they won’t – because most prospects don’t.

If Gio turns it around – which his career numbers suggest he should and if Lopez stays beyond this year, the trade may prove to be worth it yet.

The bottom line
IMO is that these trades shouldn’t make or break the club moving forward if we’re properly run in other areas.

Last edited 1 month ago by BannedInLA

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Legend

Fansince1971

1 month ago

Reply to BannedInLA

But the team is not run right in other areas and therefore the risk of trading one’s best prospects for rentals is higher to the Angels than to other teams. With an Org focused on drafting and developing players, the value of prospects is lower because they are replaceable- it’s a regenerating resource. But the risk is higher to the Angels who are not focused on player development.

Beyond that – what will it matter if Gio turns it around? And Silseth was an option within the Org that was easily equal to him.

As for Lopez – his track record over his career is meh. He is having by far his best year this season- coincidentally a free agent year. He’s the kind of guy basic analytics would tell you to avoid as his cost will be as high as his likelihood of regressing.

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Trusted Member

2GA2Join

1 month ago

Reply to BannedInLA

I disagree with the second paragraph.

The value of our prospects does not wait to appear in a bunch of years when they do or do not flame out.

Let’s say that we kept a bunch of them, and/or got a bunch back for Ohtani.
As soon as this offseason, we could have traded them for something we ACTUALLY need, like a long term solid player. Or perhaps, we wait 1 year on a few of them, and their stock goes way up, and we trade for a really good player. For example, what if we traded Brandon Wood away when his stock was hot? The fact that he didn’t pan out does not nullify the fact we could have gotten a haul for him earlier.

But instead we traded all that prospect capital away for all 2-month rentals on a lost season. That was really wrong, in my opinion.

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Editor

Legend

Jeff Joiner

1 month ago

Reply to 2GA2Join

I still didn’t think we were in it. Our record against winning teams was too bad and there was a big stretch of winning teams ahead of us.

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Super Member

AnAngelsFan

1 month ago

Reply to Jeff Joiner

Likewise, but I was expecting a slow death over the course of August, so I could cling to hope that “maybe when Trout and O’Hoppe” get back …. I was not expecting a lingering injury to Neto, a devastating injury to Ward, and complete burn out against one of the weakest teams they face this month.

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Legend

Fansince1971

1 month ago

Reply to Jeff Joiner

Yes. Agreed. I think the 3 WC slots did what they were supposed to do – cause an emotional fanbase of a marginal team to get excited and invest emotional and actual currency on this team.

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Super Member

AnAngelsFan

1 month ago

Reply to aces666high

There just happens to be a timely paywall article on that: As Angels hit low point, a look at the games they should have won – The Athletic

April 9 – Blew 6-run lead after 4 innings vs Toronto.

April 22 – Thaiss’ first homer puts Angels up 8-6 in the 8th inning after a back-and-forth game. Angels lose 11-8.

April 24 – Came back from 1-7 vs the lowly As but still lost 11-10 in 10 innings.

May 13 – Tepera DFA’d after blowing 6-2 lead in 15 pitches vs Cleveland.

May 27 – Silseth gave up a 2-run homer in a 1-run game, followed by a dropped fly ball and the failure to step on home plate on a forced play results in 8-5 loss to the Marlins in 10 innings.

June 17 – Blew an 8-2 lead against the Royals, who had lost 10 straight.

June 23 – Series loss to Rockies despite outscoring them by 20 runs.

July 16 – Up 7-3 vs the Astros for what would be a series win. Lost 9-8.

That’s 8 games. If the Angels win half of those, they would have been 55-45 heading into Detroit. That’s good enough the Angels might have been able to nab Scherzer/Verlander instead of Giolito. Certainly it would have stopped much of the “trade Ohtani” articles.

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Super Member

tanana40

1 month ago

Reply to AnAngelsFan

The June 17th loss to the Royals was the key game for me. We were up 8-2 and a win would have put us 9 games over .500 (41-32) but we lost the lead twice in that game and lost. We have never gotten back to where we were when that game started.

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Super Member

tanana40

1 month ago

Reply to tanana40

and to be fair there were games that we won that we probably should have lost. We would have to have a list of those as well to draw any conclusions. Teams win games they should lose and lose games they should win, the question is does the balance tip one way or another?

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Super Member

AnAngelsFan

1 month ago

Reply to tanana40

I can recall 2-3 surprising comebacks this season, which is why I went with “if the Angels” won half of those, because it feels like that would be a more even distribution.

Of course, it could be selective memory, so you are right that a truly fair comparison would require the unexpected wins as well.

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Legend

Fansince1971

1 month ago

Reply to AnAngelsFan

Every team has losses like these. It’s part of baseball. Good team’s balance these tough losses out with improbable wins.

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Trusted Member

Angels22

1 month ago

Reply to AnAngelsFan

This hurts to read this.

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Member

Omahalo22

1 month ago

As long as Arte is the owner…well you know. Nice shiny gold turd we have. Being a halos fan is not for the faint of heart. Happy Birthday Trouty! Here’s to you and your hamate bone! You’ll be watching the eagles in no time rest assured. Make your plans now!

Last edited 1 month ago by Omahalo22

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Legend

Jeff Joiner

1 month ago

This has been one of the worst weeks to be an Angels fan. And I’ve been one for over 30 years.

I really hope Arte feels like he’s finished his business. He went all in to try to build around Ohtani and it simply didn’t work.

Of course, not having the same trade chips as owners who invested in the farm meant his all in wasn’t as all in as others. But that’s on him. Not that he or his cronies will ever allow that thought inside their high castle.

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Super Member

AnAngelsFan

1 month ago

Reply to Jeff Joiner

I have to agree. In sum,

The Angels traded their best farm pieces for a mediocre rental starter and decent rental reliever. They lost the series to their most important competitor anyway and lost another key OF in an already injury-plagued season. They then sold the rest of the farm to replace the OF and to increase IF and bullpen depth. They finally got an important player back from the IL (Drury) but replaced in the IL by sending another important piece there (SS). Finally, they proceeded to get swept by one of the two teams they play in the next 30 days where the Angels were reasonably expected to be favorites to win the series.

Not only did the Blue Jays and Seattle series tank the chances of playoffs for this season, with all of the players that will be FAs at the end of the year, the Angels are almost certain to be sellers for the next 2-3 years.

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Super Member

ihearhowie3.0

1 month ago

Reply to AnAngelsFan

I have no problem being sellers for 2-3 years if its in competent hands with savvy ownership.

Nobody would ever describe the Arte/Carpino/Kuhl braintrust as savvy or competent though.

I’m almost terrified of Shohei re-signing here and locking us into this weird vaguely-but-not-quite-competitive hell. Let’s set him and ourselves free. If losing Shohei in embarrassing fashion rids us of Arte, it’s worth it.

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Trusted Member

TrojanBoiler

1 month ago

Reply to ihearhowie3.0

I wish I could give this 10 thumbs up

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Legend

Fansince1971

1 month ago

Reply to ihearhowie3.0

IhearHowie – spot on! A great comment and directly on point. Ownership and Organization matters.

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Legend

Cowboy26

1 month ago

Reply to ihearhowie3.0

Im sure Shohei is too.

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Trusted Member

JakeTaylor

1 month ago

Reply to AnAngelsFan

I wasn’t a fan of either trade. Giolito is an above average SP – probably a #3 or 4 guy in your rotation but not the same caliber as a Scherzer or Verlander. Cron and Grichuk both can’t hit outside of Coors field and after a week it’s pretty evident they can’t. But maybe these were the only moves available to us and at least an effort was made to try and improve the club before the deadline to show Ohtani they are committed to winning.

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Super Member

ihearhowie3.0

1 month ago

Reply to JakeTaylor

I liked that we made the trades. We never play meaningful games in August but holy crap I didn’t think they’d lose meaning this fast.

I suspected even with the trades we could still finish 4th in the division just becaues guys carrying us like Moniak and Estevez were due to regress but if we hear no buzz about Arte moving on in the coming months, that will be the real doom hammer that hits me.

All or nothing was fun because we either won or blow the thing up. Sort of a win-win. But if they keep status quo, my God will that be soul crushing.

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Trusted Member

2GA2Join

1 month ago

Reply to ihearhowie3.0

I definitely wouldn’t characterize it as a win-win, but I understand where you are coming from.
More like a win-“lose but Arte leaves so that this doesn’t happen again hopefully.”
I can’t characterize the combo of losing a bunch of trade capital, on top of not capitalizing on the decent possible return for Ohtani, as a win. Of course on top of losing a bunch of games and falling out of the playoff picture for the 9th season.

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Super Member

ihearhowie3.0

1 month ago

Reply to 2GA2Join

Yeah its a loss for sure. But it piles on what could have been a “typical” losing season for the Angels, hopefully forcing some movement.

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YOUknowulovetheIE

1 month ago

Reply to JakeTaylor

Both have been successful before colorado and grichuk has great numbers away from coors field this year.

Last edited 1 month ago by YOUknowulovetheIE

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JakeTaylor

1 month ago

Reply to YOUknowulovetheIE

Oh you mean if you’re only looking at #’s for 39 road games in 2023? Then yeah. But if you combine last season + this season, in 104 road games, he’s hitting .235 w/ 11 HR’s, 40 RBI’s away from Coors field. Not that great if you ask me.

1

Super Member

BannedInLA

1 month ago

Reply to AnAngelsFan

Of all the FA’s next season, which one’s do you really want to invest in beyond Ohtani.

The Angels will have flexibility if nothing else. The question is how said “flexibility” is managed.

Some pieces are in place regardless of how shitty we feel on Monday
AM.

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Super Member

ihearhowie3.0

1 month ago

Reply to BannedInLA

I’d like them to forego free agency and just play guys like Adell and use the payroll space to acquire a bad contract or two with prospects attached.

More likely though is they overpay Giolito to “justify” their trade and dig the hole deeper.

1

Super Member

AnAngelsFan

1 month ago

Reply to BannedInLA

Maybe the “If I were Perry can persuade me otherwise,” but at this point, I don’t think there is enough in the farm and available in FA to make the Angels competitive next year.

They’d be better off looking to move Canning/Sandoval/Ward/Rengifo, calling up Fletcher and Adell, and aiming for a rebuild for the 2027 season (Rendon will be gone and Trout will DH). They’ll have lots of players who will be FAs after 2027, so they might even choose to sell that year and push to win in 2028.

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Super Member

BannedInLA

1 month ago

Reply to AnAngelsFan

Totally concur on Adell though naturally he suffered a fairly severe strain when the opportunity was NOW.

Fletcher isn’t worth mentioning as he’s completely washed. Might as well give Stefanic those AB’s or any other prospect for that matter.

Not sure what kind of return we get by selling low on guys like Sandoval & Canning, but I assume your thought is to get
whatever we
can prospect wise before they’re eligible for Free Agency and much bigger money.

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Trusted Member

2GA2Join

1 month ago

Reply to BannedInLA

Rough call.
Take this year’s team and subtract Ohtani. That makes next year look pretty toast.
I’m not sure if we can expect to compete next year at all. If all the young players play well, and if everyone is healthy, and our FA signings are perfect, then maybe.

Here’s what I absolutely do not want to see: signing a FA with a QO attached (unless we are super sure that it is a franchise-altering long-term young player).

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Super Member

BannedInLA

1 month ago

Reply to 2GA2Join

Assuming Ohtani is moving on, I would say that 50-60 million per year can buy you numerous solid players like Matt Moore and Brandon Drury.

These are the types of players that can mesh well with emerging young talent as as you said, if things go well injury & development wise, you can field a winning team.

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Legend

Fansince1971

1 month ago

Reply to BannedInLA

All I know is I want a team of smart people analyzing the data and making those decisions. That does not include anyone on this thread including me 😂

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Trusted Member

JakeTaylor

1 month ago

Reply to Jeff Joiner

This for me it ranks right up there with the feeling I had in ’86 and ’95 and we’re not even in the postseason. Thursday night’s loss was a punch to the gut and I really think that is a blow this team will not recover from. It’s only the regular season but I really feel like everything is riding on this season and our quest to keep Ohtani. To go on a 6 game losing streak right after the trade deadline and essentially fall out of the race is just devastating as a fan.

Last edited 1 month ago by JakeTaylor

3

Trusted Member

2002heaven

1 month ago

Reply to Jeff Joiner

The Beginning Of The End Was?
IMO after losing the 2009 ALCS to the Yankees and we never recovered as a organization after that. By then Arte had all his cronies in place where it mattered POBO, scouting dept, coaching and player development all the while we were hemorrhaging baseball people (Bud Black, Joe Maddon, Bill Stoneman, Ed Bane) anyway during the 2000’s. The final nail in the coffin came with Arte’s well publicized trade veto of my nephew (LOL!!!) Joc Peterson and Ross Stripling and now nobody worth their salt will work for him. You think Theo Epstein would come here? Not a chance!!

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Super Member

MarineLayer

1 month ago

What a horrible Monday morning. There’s nothing to write here that makes it feel better. The Angels pushed all their chips in their cheapish way (Giolito instead of Scherzer or Verlander) and lost. Shoehei leaves, and the Angels pretend to soldier on with Trout, Neto, O ‘Hoppe and a whole lot of nothing. Trout transitions to a lovable loser Ernie Banks role and Arturo never sells until he’s dead. Rendon keeps collecting his money. Does anybody see a different scenario that makes us winners.

3

Super Member

ihearhowie3.0

1 month ago

Reply to MarineLayer

Really the only scenario is Arte selling off the team or at least a decent chunk of it that comes with new management and lots of turnover to the organization as a whole, not just the roster.

He does not have the patience for a rebuild. We would get 1 year in and he’d want to trade prospects to “go for it” ahead of schedule.

It’s legitimately the only silver lining to this season aside from Shohei’s individual brilliance. The uglier the failure, the more likely things change.

1

Trusted Member

clover_black

1 month ago

Reply to MarineLayer

doubt scherzer or verlander would waive NC to play with the angels.

the “all chips in” was clearly stupid and hilarious.

1

Super Member

AnAngelsFan

1 month ago

Reply to MarineLayer

No, sadly, I don’t.

0

Trusted Member

GhostGuest

1 month ago

The Angels scored 14 runs in four games this weekend against their division rivals, the Seattle Nobodies. Here’s how many of those 14 runs each individual Angel produced:

3.50 Moustakas
2.50 Cron
2.25 Ohtani
1.75 Moniak
1.25 Rengifo
1.00 Thaiss
1.00 Grichuk
0.50 Drury

This is the second time already that the Moose has led the Angels in Actual Runs Produced. Since his arrival, I have not witnessed CJ Cron square up the ball yet — he seems to hit the top of the ball for a grounder in almost all of his at bats, but as he is proving, when you put the ball in play, good things can happen.

Here is the updated ARA/BF for our Angel pitchers:

0.06 Moore (138)
0.09 Ohtani (503)
0.09 Soriano (108)
0.09 Bachman (77)
0.10 Sandoval (452)
0.10 Estevez (197)
0.10 Silseth (151)
0.10 Weiss (25)
0.10 Joyce (21)
0.11 Canning (357)
0.12 Giolito (552)
0.12 Anderson (466)
0.12 Detmers (455)
0.12 Lopez (198)
0.12 Leone (139)
0.13 Barria (276)
0.13 Webb (140)
0.14 Loup (152)
0.15 Wantz (96)
0.16 Devenski (140)
0.17 Reyes (34)
0.18 Herget (71)
0.18 Mederos (17)
0.19 Suarez (123)
0.23 Ingram (14)

Estevez took a tumble down the ARA/BF list after the beat down the Mariners gave him a couple days ago. Matt Moore has been the Angel pitching staff’s true All-Star this year. Don’t look now, but Tyler Anderson has passed Reid Detmers on the ARA/BF list. Tucker Davidson is now a Kansas City Royal, so he is off the list, a fate that may befall Jacob Webb now that he has also been DFA’d by the Angels.

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