Nowadays it seems like sports leagues and networks inflate everything. Every good game is historic or the most hits against the shift in day games west of the Mississippi or something.
But we’re seeing real history right now.
Shohei Ohtani is doing it in Anaheim. He notched his 200th strikeout this week for the first 200k season in his career. Ohtani had 34 home runs at the time of that 200th K. The next closest is Don Drysdale with 7. 7.
The list of Ohtani’s accomplishments is too long to list here. I’m in amazement that I’ve seen his year happen. He’s so amazing he should be the unanimous choice for AL MVP according to even East Coast guys.
Of course he won’t be the unanimous choice. Probably not the choice at all.
Because in New York, Aaron Judge tied the AL home run record at 61 and should break it soon.
Judge is a class guy. I like him a lot. He’s small town, north Central Valley. He gave his historic home run ball to his mom.
But having the sixth best single season home run total in MLB history is not better than being a two way monster.
There’s single season history and there there’s all time great history. Albert Pujols made the latter and deserves all of the accolades he’s getting. 700 home runs is extremely rare, only achieved twice without steroids.
And expect it to get rarer. We probably won’t see this again for several decades.
In the story line department, Albert going back home and hitting 700 was the perfect, yet unexpected, swan song of the year.
Meanwhile in the land of today, Logan O’Hoppe made his MLB debut and looked really solid.
In the cutting onions department:
I realize most of you don’t have The Athletic so watch this interview from in game Wednesday night.
Enjoy this last weekend of games. Look for me Sunday with my son and some ice cream.
Sorry about the short links, folks, but daddy duties call. Please link what I missed below.
All the reports are making out as this added 30 m to next years budget when all it does is reallocate Uptons money
Yay! Ohtani got paid and staying for another year.
Though, they can still trade him. He was likely to get 30M or close in arb.
Logan has a nice family. I’m rooting for his dad in his recovery from cancer.
Down to 14th in attendance. Good.
Well, yeah? I mean, what we wanted to happen already happened. Attendance went down enough to force Arte to do SOMETHING and he’s looking to sell. I wouldn’t mind if attendance went up ASAP though so our payroll stays up.
I’ve been attending but my per-caps are $0.00
Bought my last several games on stubhub. I still get food there.
They keep sending me reminders re renewing season tickets. Nope.
Alright, now that Shohei pitched, time to get O’Hoppe back in the lineup. Watching replays for Wednesday, I like this kids approach in the batters box, looks like a hitter with catching skills. I’m a fan.
Should we turn him into a 1st Baseman?
Who is already on 1st
that’s what I wanna know
How about this for a trade?
The new ownerz are not going to be the unicorn sugar daddy boyfriend you think you deserve and “just up the payroll” to retain Ohtani and put players around him.
Ohtani’s trade value will never be higher and he’s likely to NOT be able to do this for more than a couple/few more years. If CtPG’s hive mind wanking is any indicator this current team is a lost cause for just about that long.
So what if a team takes Shohei Ohtani off our hands? They also have to take Anthony Rendon, Ryan Tepera and Aaron Loup off our hands and they give is 3 prospects from their mid-Top 30?
So that clears the deck. Then we trade guys like Sandoval and Ward and Rengifo for prospects… do the same with Walsh, Fletcher and Stassi if they prove out by the trade deadline. We can get our payroll down to Trout + scraps and pick up about 15 young players and prospects?
Do you hate the current Angels predicament so much you’d trade Ohtani to get out of it?
Hey wait, this looks like today’s post of “CtPG getting the rebuild they deserve”
Well no. The rebuild we deserve is a bombed out crater full of dead cats and smoke.
This would be an actually effective rebuild… with luck. We’d (hopefully) vastly upgrade our system by targeting the prospects we trade individual players for according to positions we want to fill. We’d keep all the prospects and young guys we have now, like Detmers and O’Hoppe. We’d keep our franchise great Trout. We’d get out from under contracts we don’t want/can’t afford and have something around 100M in payroll flex.
Our current team kind of reminds me
Of course, I doubt this happens. I actually think Rendon’s not done, our current pitching staff is strong and can be easily improved, we will likely have some players bounce back next year, we have a strong stable of MiLB arms to help in the pen and maybe even add rotation depth, Rendon, Rengifo, Fletcher and Squid/Soto/Neto will actually make for a strong infield and we really just need a minor addition at OF and 1B (plus health of course) to be fairly good next year.
But a rebuild would be interesting.
As would a total A’s style zero dollars contracted for payroll next year tear down… which is the rebuild we deserve, which would be fun to watch too. Clean out all that bad Ju Ju… let some old/weak fans die in the desert before we enter into the promised land.
I’ve heard the “we just need some minor tweaks” song and dance for over a decade. I refuse to be optimistic until they actually win something.
Poor you. Congratulations, you are a proud member of the growing club of manpons around here who mistake looking at something and figuring out ways it COULD work for for optimism while mistaking refusing to look possible positive directions for “tough and smart”.
Really you all are just mad because someone won’t just fix what isn’t making you happy. Maybe some of you are just lazy in the head too… I don’t know.
Which is how you manage to make a statement like “I refuse to be optimistic until they actually win something.” It’s like saying “I refuse to plan my wedding till I’m married with two kids.”
And this is why we collectively deserve a team that sucks as mysteriously as the Angels. Why would the baseball gods throw any luck our way? In most teams cases it’s minor tweaks that get it done, so I guess it’s just gonna be box wine and Coldplay for you folks till someone drops a World Series in your lap and makes you smile for a few days. But again, why would the baseball gods piss away title on us?
I want a team with arguably the two best players in the game to actually be in the playoffs, especially now when almost half the teams in the league qualify.
No one asked what you want. I asked if you would do a particular thing. You shared your emotions with us. We’re not dating, so I don’t give a shit.
I’m out of your league anyway
if you’re trading a superstar, you do it for high end prospects and young big leaguers, not just to dump money. What kind of message does that send to the fans, free agents, etc?
Tepera or Loup could possibly get included, but no way Rendon does
So one vote for keep paying Trout/Rendon and add Ohtani…. even if, in this hypothetical, it means we don’t really sign anyone else to a big contract for a long time.
Could be fine if our farm hands start coming up winners.
I vote for pay Ohtani, hope Rendon is healthy (but still get a SS in case he isn’t, or Fletch/Rengifo/Soto regress), count on the rotation (which has been pretty solid all year) with one SP addition, and roll with Herget, Quijada, Barria, Wantz, etc in the pen.
Yah. Could work, again, if our farm hands, as a group, upgrade us over the years of those big three contracts.
We need a SS capable guy and a RH 1B. If one or both of those guys can get by a couple games in the OF it wouldn’t hurt.
No I dont . Time to put the large market big boy pants on a spend like drunken sailors in EVERY aspect of the franchise.
The hypothetical I’m asking about though doesn’t include magical unicorn ranchers spending like fools for us.
So if we’re stuck without a sugar daddy, would you trade Ohtani to get rid of the bad contracts?
Yep . New owners don’t promote the completion of crazy trades. Thats fantasy world shit. https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/8302304/boston-red-sox-send-adrian-gonzalez-carl-crawford-los-angeles-dodgers-blockbuster-trade
Don’t be Tooty. I said, in THIS HYPOTHETICAL SITUATION, what would you do. At no point have I said new owners never go crazy on spending…. I mean, Cohen’s right there for gah sake. Our new owners probably will to (to a lesser extent) but I don’t know for how long or if that means they will pay Ohtani and Trout 85M a year till 2032 or whenever.
I would absolutely not do another trade where we let go of talent just to save some money. Our farm system is already rated low… it doesn’t make sense to send away even more talent in order to save some money. I still think the Cozart trade was one of the worst trades I’ve ever seen during Moreno’s tenure, no matter what Wilson ends up doing. Just no excuse for sending away our #1 pick to save $13MM… which wasn’t then spent on something critical that changed our season.
So nope from you. Spend on three dudes we all like and surround em with “stuff” is better than clearing the decks + Trout.
As far as I can tell neither is “right”. They’re just different ways to go.
Yes, that is true. But haven’t we seen that Arte’s way of going hasn’t worked out very well?
Also, I guess people are still divided over Rendon. I think he may still play well in the future, and we didn’t have a 3B for years. I don’t want to go back to a 3B of fill-ins like Duffy.
If it would have been doing your idea of trading away some talent in order to unload Pujols’ contract say in year 5 or 6, now that would be a different response from me!
Upon further thought now…
I suppose for me it all depends on our next owner.
If we get someone like Autry, and the GM is told the payroll will now be no higher than $140MM from now on, then I absolutely agree with you… clear the deck. Trade Ohtani now and don’t even consider resigning him.
If we get a Daddy Moneybags who doesn’t give a rip about Rendon’s contract, then why would I complain either? If he’ll go sign the best talent available and make the right moves without sending away good talent just to offload Rendon, then I’m not going to complain.
Well, I tell you why I asked the original hypothetical.
IF we extend Ohtani we will likely be spending 100-120M a year on Rendon/Trout/Ohtani.
That means that, even if new owner is not “cheap” but also isn’t a total f***ing idiot, we’d maybe get the payroll bumped up to 230M? This leaves an average of 5.9M a year per player for the rest of the roster. I think people don’t realize that, while we are similar to the Mets and Phillies, both those teams have larger fanbases than ours and don’t play in Anaheim. New Ownerz are very likely to spend, but not way over that 230M guess… not long term.
What does a mid range starter cost now? 18M a year? What sadboys around here call a “real” closer? 16M? A second ace type to line up with the big boys? 25M. A couple more solid hitters at various positions? 15-20M each? Now you still have to pay another 18 guys cause DEPTH.
Sure, we will luck out and have some young cheap talent, we already have. But you see where this is going right? NewOwner will probably be a group. A business. They will want to make money. I seriously doubt they are going to run a 280M payroll for long unless our market suddenly starts being able to produce more cash than it did back in the great 2000s.
So it’s worth pondering. I myself will get plenty of joy out of those big 3 players, but I also understand that this is how you gets Mayers starts and Squid.
I could also enjoy a crazy rebuild plan. But that could be pretty bad for a while.
Not sure which I prefer, but it’s likely we will get some version of one of them.
Missed the game last night but it sounds like Shohei was doing Shohei things as usual. He’s special…need to do everything we can to keep him.
On the flip side, I see Loup was his usual gas can self just checking the box scores. I haven’t seen worse ill-prepared off-season moves from an Angels GM since the Vernon Wells trade days. The quicker Arte is gone and new management can put their own GM in, the better.
Loup was worse than that.
Loup was such poop ….
When Shohei started faltering I said aloud “ITS LOUP THIRTY”
Some dude in front of me looked back “DONT EVEN SAY THAT” …..
Loup starts warming … trots to the mound …. the guy up and leaves the ballpark. 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
I think that like 1979 that Judge and Shohei need to share the MVP. Shohei is the most exciting player in my lifetime, yes, even more than Trout.
Problem is (and I LOVE LOVE the 79 Pirates and Stargell) Hernandez was totally robbed in 1979. Stargell won on lovability and being associated with a disco hit. He wasn’t even MVP of his team and he won the award based on the same magic goop that so many Yankees use to slide into the HOF. Hernandez was the MVP.
I don’t like the sharing concept. Just understand the writers will vote for a guy with an historic year and who has never won one. Many of the writers I’ve heard interviewed are on Judge and I have zero problem with that.
Jeff, I find your “sixth best single season” contradictory to your views on pre-integration baseball. If Ruth can be downgraded because he didn’t face 100% of the best competition then why wouldn’t Bonds, McGwire, and Sosa be downgraded for the steroid era? The top 5 all happened from 1998 to 2001…and then it stopped. Is there any conclusion to be made from that? I think so.
Yes, it IS a big deal that Judge is doing this. I’d love to see Ohtani get the award. I’d rather have Ohtani on the Angels than Judge. But I’m gonna discount the steroid numbers and so will a lot of others.
What if Ohtani was strictly a pitcher?
First of all, he’d be traded for sure for obvious reasons.
What if you were a positive contributor to society?
I’ll admit to that being a smart ass remark.
It is a huge deal. 61 was an iconic number for decades. It still is in my book.
There is no team that would rather have Judge than Ohtani. That is not the litmus test on who is more valuable. Just embrace the phenomenal year that Judge has had. Hope he wins the Triple Crown too. Shohei breaks his own records while Judge is breaking 50+ year old milestones.
Well put. I have been reading so many of these discussions on different forums, and I can’t believe how many people think that Judge wins MVP outright. Their logic they provide is full of holes.
If I was going to play a video game, and I had first pick, of either Judge or Ohtani, there is no question who I would pick.
If I was going to play a school pickup game, and I was the team leader who got to pick first, and Judge and Ohtani were standing there, there is no question who I would pick.
I can’t imagine someone honestly answering otherwise.
From a different angle, one could say that this year, Ohtani has had the greatest season of any player in the history of all of baseball. (Right? This season is better than last years.) If someone has the greatest season performance in the history of baseball, how does he not win MVP?
… And then meanwhile I’m also a guy advocating that we trade him too.. LOL
“one could say that this year, Ohtani has had the greatest season of any player in the history of all of baseball. ” ummmm yeah, whoa there tiger, you may want bref that…. and then let all the reasoning and caveats and squirming start.
Ohtani’s got less WAR than Judge. Judge is gonna come in well short of even Mookie Betts’ MVP season. Mookie’s nowehere close to the all time greatest seasons. Ohtani’s my guy n I want him to win because I’d like that, but a lot of us are starting to really over rate the value that pitching every six games brings a team.
Let’s not get ESPNsyndrome here. Judge’s season isn’t even close to “THAR BEAST WEEF EVAH SEEN FROM AH HITTER” the way some are saying and Ohtani’s special, but he’s not as special/valuable as some folks are pushing.
Well, I do understand you could run some bref stats and WAR and all that…. but I’ve seen lots of discussions where it is hard to accurately relate pitching to WAR to position WAR fairly. So just relying on that seems questionable.
OK, what about this… pitching is a super premium. I’ve always heard the old saying that pitching wins playoffs. The top pitchers are usually extremely sought after. I have trouble imagining that the value of a near-Cy-Young-pitching season is not worth more than the incremental value of Judges offense over Ohtani’s offense. It doesn’t seem to make sense.
Either way, I think there is always a bias going on. If Judge plays for the Yankees or Red Sox, he’s going to get a little bonus push that he wouldn’t get on any other team. We’ve all seen it for years, the obsession with the Yankees and Red Sox.
I’ve said it before, I’ll say it again. The “pitchers aren’t valued right” line is generally thrown down by people who really want a particular pitcher to be worth more in an argument. Their value pretty much is what WAR says it is.
One way you can tell is that there actually are a bunch of pitchers with top all time highest bWAR years… it’s just Shohei’s not one of them.
Well, sure, Pedro Martinez had 11.7 pitching bWAR in 2000. That is amazing.
He finished 5th in the MVP conversation – losing to Giambi.
Pitching isn’t valued in the same way as offense.
One could say 2009 Grienke too.
Yabut 2009 Greinke was in KC.
And Gooden, and Carlton, and Clemens…. and then you get into guys like Walter Johnson, a bunch of dudes from the 1800s, etc.
But you see, the highest pitcher WAR is a full 6 points higher than the all time position player WAR.
We want to make believe that Pud Galvin wasn’t real because he looked like a DMV employee, played more than 100 years ago, and his team was in Buffalo. But he was still playing MLB baseball. The numbers that add up to WAR are the same. The dude pitched over 600 innings, which, by the way, is one of the reasons I don’t buy the “in today’s game” bollox about the old guys never cutting it here in future land. Maybe some of the scrubs, but I also don’t see any of our “current great athletes” throwing 1/2 the innings of these guys or playing the innings at the skill level that Ty Cobb and Honus Wagner did…. hitting against doctored baseballs.
But that’s beside the point. The point is that pitchers WAR IS VALUED higher than position player WAR. It’s just not so over valued that 170 innings of it is worth 1120 at another position. But if a pitcher is very good AND impacts a lot of innings by pitching his WAR blows up.
The point isn’t that there have historically been high pitching WAR seasons (though nowhere near those historic numbers – suggesting the game has changed since Walter Johnson regularly had 11WAR as a pitcher). There have. Those guys are amazing. They just don’t factor into an MVP conversation.
My point is that even when Grienke had 10.4 WAR in a season (2009), he wasn’t considered remotely in the conversation for the MVP, despite having the higher WAR numbers. (Mauer won with 7.8, Kendry Morales finished 5th with 4.3, Grienke was 17th).
Maybe that changes post-2012 – in the Trout/stat era – and maybe not, but historically no matter what WAR is put up by a pitcher, it means less than a batter (with the ‘same’ WAR).
Despite Ohtani’s improvement on the mound, and statistically the better season, I think there are plenty of people (and some with MVP votes) that see him hitting fewer HRs meaning this year is less than last year, even if Ohtani is in the Cy race this time around.
Also, we really want Ohtani to win it.
Poolhose doesn’t deserve anything, he is a cheat-a liar-fraud and a MLB and the writers a aware of this and just like “Papi” will go in the HOF.
None of us have proof that he used PED’s and you’re entitled to that negative belief just as I AM ABOUT OUR OWNER, REGARDING TYLER SKAGGS, THE CITY OF ANAHEIM, THE MINOR LEAGUERS, AND HIS POLITICS.
44 times there have been 50+ Homeruns hit in MLB history and I believe 23 times by those that used Steroids, and more than half can’t be proven as Selig wanted the owners to recoup lost monies from the strike years. The real truth of who used will never be released. How many players in history have done what Albert did in his first ten years? None. Steroid ERA and you believe he did not use and told the truth about his age. I think he used this season. BTW, look at Albert’s first season pictures and notice his neck and head size. Enough said by me.
I think he may have also, especially this season, but looking through pictures I’m not convinced. Do you have a link to a good example?
The “No Politics Rule” remains in effect. Shut that down.
And yet…. man he’s just helped so many more people than you, accomplished so much more than you, has made so much more money and is all around just a better person than you in spite of all that. Not sure what must hurt more, that or the Jerry Dipoto shaped hole in you that just can’t be filled.
Does it help if I give you a picture of of Nick Castellanos as a boy? Here.
Wait Nicky C’s mom is Jodie Foster?
Jodie Foster would need, you know, eggs, for that to happen.
Well they already have credible evidence he’s been abusing Geritol for many years now.
They need to create the Ohtani award that is only given away to the Unicorn that Ohtani is. It will be above CYA or MVP and only given away for “Holy Shit he just did What!” seasons. So far only two should have been given out.
He already received it. https://www.mlb.com/news/ohtani-commissioner-s-historic-achievement-award
Maybe they should change the name of the award already
He should get a second one, and they should rename it. 🙂
Funny moment last night for me, when Sho kept shaking off Stassi while not even looking at him.
one thing I loved was after we got out of the 8th with it still 4-0, Stassi and Shohei walked off together with Stassi looking downcast and Ohtani smiling.
They don’t use signs anymore, remember? They use that radio thingie.
If Sho had the no-no last night, it would certainly have been an interesting conversation for MVP.
I still think it’s Judge, but Shohei’s certainly been making it interesting closing the season with his 14-hit streak AND 0.90 ERA. Who else can freaking say that? Judge will win, but I don’t think it will be a unanimous vote, not with the way Shohei’s been closing the season.
He’s not breaking records, he’s making his own!
Either way though, this is certainly a fun time for the fans – watching modern day Maris and modern day Babe Ruth.
So, right now, they are 0.6 WAR away from each other. Doesn’t seem like much, but the difference between the 1+ WAR lead Judge had and the one he has now is significant. It would take a miracle, but if Ohtani has another start like this last one on the final day of the year, and if he hits five or six HRs and goes 2 for 4 in all those games that are left… or something else equally crazy AND if Judge slumps a little…
A) Ohtani would really be close enough in WAR to justify “IZ AMACE INGG HE DOING ERRR GERD BESTEST!!!!” argument for Shohei winning over Judge even if he’s a little less statistically valuable.
B) It would be highly visible. If Judge tails off a little and Shohei goes insane then all the voters will see it. If Ohtani made up another 0.3 WAR that way, in such a short time, at the end of the season…. I think he could maybe win.
I would love that. I bet we could baste a turkey in the tears of Yankees fans if that happened. Sure, Judge can win. Right now he probably is the MVP. But man it would be cool if he didn’t win.
Shohei needs whatever Kool-Aid Trout drank during his 8 straight HR binge, and go insane the last 6 games of the season.
Will this work? I think it worked for Junior.
That’s just brain tonic.
I agree, it will not be unanimous but Judge wins comfortably
15 wins, 34HR and 93 RBI with 9.2 WAR and a sparkling 2.32 ERA. That is your MVP in my opinion.
It’s not close for Shohei’s second straight MVP, but no way he overcomes the east coast bias.
I agree and it’s unfortunate. Ohtani is deserving.
Some people say that it’s unfortunate that Ohtani will lose MVP on the season that he’s arguably better. It’s still astounding to say that he was better in 2022 than in 2021.
It’s similar but in reverse – Trout’s first MVP win in which he finally won despite having a worse season than his first two seasons in which he lost to Miggy.
Playing for the Angels is a huge disadvantage, as we are a media wasteland, even for GOAT 1.0 and GOAT 2.0. The story just repeats itself over and over.
Man we have developed an unhealthy complex here.
Is intense therapy or just a new owner a viable cure?
A good new owner and sappy fans who like cute little losing teams to go away.
It’s not like Detroit is a media mecca. All baseball writers recognize the greatness of Mike Trout. Ohtani has gotten a lot of fan fare and media coverage the last couple of years. Back when news travelled by newspaper, that was an argument but I don’t think writers are unfollowing news these days.
He’s a better pitcher this year, not a better hitter.
He only got better at BA, last year he had more HR,SB, RBI’s. Yes he’s better than Joc Pederson too.
Judge is having a incredible season for the Yankees not the Twins.
or overcome the historical achievement of a long standing record
Two great players and nobody else doesn’t cut it.
Bummer he lost it in the 8th. Could tell Soto felt like crap but it was pretty hard contact, would have been a tough play no matter what.
He was out of position to make that play. It’s too bad.
Gallego is to blame they should not have been playing him to pull with 2 strikes
Sho is to blame because he should have just struck out the guy.
nobody is to blame. It happens. shifting still takes 2 strikes into account
That’s “Old School” thinking, today’s thinking is everyone hits into the shift no matter the count. But I agree with you.
Batter did what he had to do. Hit the other way to beat the shift. If it was the Halos being no-hit, we’d be applauding. He got the hit fair and square.
But what about my feelings? If I have some feelings that changes things right?
I was watching the game from DVR later, and I really wanted to see something special happen, but when it didn’t I remembered how rare no-hitters are and refrained from getting disappointed. It was remarkable that he went that far.
That, and my phone never popped up an alert saying “Ohtani pitches no-hitter” so I kind of knew it was going to end….
BSW was running the no-no in progress as a permanent graphic starting in the 6th.
To my eyes, it was a scorekeepers hit but clearly Soto should have at least gloved it and fired across the diamond. Probably would have been safe but that ball was fieldable. A crappy execution.
At least he didn’t bunt ….
I would have had no problem if it was a bunt hit. Again, you do what you gotta do to beat the shift. It would just be good smart baseball.
Verlander, on the other hand, would have a fit.
Verlander having a fit is half the fun of doing it. (That said, if he signs with us next season, I will likely not make fun of him – as much).
It’s funny, and not really a big deal, just a silly quirk, that so many of us LOVE Nolan Ryan…. who was ten times the bitch about guys bunting on him EVER and also got really butt hurt if you hit a HR off him.
But Verlander = bad.
Well, Sho has one more chance against the same team…
For those Halo fans in the path of Ian…prayers sent!!
I’m Curious how many there are in that region
Maybe some of the Trash Panda fans. That’s pretty far inland, though.