The Angels lost two of three to the Mariners over the weekend, sandwiching poor offensive performances around an explosion. Shohei Ohtani walked a lot.
In the rubber match of the series, Ohtani pitched a gem, but the team couldn’t pick him up. If it was Ohtani’s last start of the season, he’s definitely shown that he can pitch and hit in the same game. After the game, Ohtani said that although he loves the team, he wants to win. He and Trout have been part of the losing for more than a while now, and something has to change.
Ohtani will be a free agent after the 2023 season, and no extension talks have been opened yet. Personally, I don’t think this is a big deal; after all, we’re talking about someone who turned down millions to come to MLB as early as possible to prove himself. I wouldn’t be surprised if he didn’t sign before free agency so he could best weigh his options and put himself in the best chance to succeed.
Next year will truly be the most important year in a long time. If it’s another year of the same, Ohtani could be demanding a trade, and after that one starts to wonder if a core of Trout and Rendon, with unproven pitchers, is enough foundation to reach the postseason. I’ll lay it out in my offseason plan, but my philosophy is that I am willing to take on bad contracts this offseason because it’s so critical. We have to push our chips into the center. It’s now-or-(quite possibly)-never.
Of course, it came to no one’s surprise that Mike Trout will not be returning in the 2021 season.
You can follow along with the Angels draft position, if you’re into that sort of thing.
The AL Wild Card race certainly is amazing. It’s a minefield of teams that the average Angels fan probably wouldn’t like to see succeed in the playoffs.
The Cardinals have won sixteen games in a row and look to carry their momentum into their (probable) Wild Card showdown with the Dodgers.
There was a tragic incident Saturday at Petco Park, where two individuals fell to their deaths. The cause is unknown.
What does Salman Rushdie have to do with Angels baseball?
Tim Salman and the Angelic Verses
I think the real dangerous teams, when it comes to possibly stealing Ohtani away, are the Miami Marlins, Arizona D-Bags, Seattle Mariners, San Jose Sharks and Miami Dolphins cause I’m more than certain in the bones of my heart that Ohtani’s favorite color is teal.
This is one more reason we need to change our uniforms but Arte will never go with teal because of narcolepsism and billboards.
I don’t think we need to worry about Ohtani leaving right now. I think things will work themselves out but yes the last six seasons have sucked.
OT: I get spam calls all the time, and I usually play along until they get wise and hang up.
Today was no exception.
I pick up the phone and the caller asks if I’d be interested in investments in Texas oil wells.
DG: You bet! Tell me more!
Spammer: [proceeds to explain in detail how much money I need to invest blah blah blah]
At the end of the call, the spammer asks if I have any questions.
DG: Yes, I do. Do these wells produce corn oil or vegetable oil?
Spammer: F___ You! [click]
My work here is done. [stands arms akimbo]
No, they produce Vernons.
🤣
Count me out
I realize this site is reactionary and reminiscent of Chicken Little even in the best of times, and the extended struggles of the franchise have amplified the negativity, but let’s step off the ledge for a second and consider what’s often lost in translation.
https://twitter.com/JballAllen/status/1442564887553576964?s=20
I’m reminded of the old HH meme:
R-E-L-A-X
Went to the mentioned SPOZONE version and Allen’s translation is correct indeed.
Ippei might have chose those words due to the apparent frustration shown by Sho yesterday, since Ippei tends to interpret beyond words.
The meme is: “Two words. RE LAX”
So he’s saying he’s seen the hidden evil that some CTPG posters have also had the wisdom, skill and cunning to unmask for themselves and, having seen the light, absolutely plans to leave this team as soon as he can.
That’s what he’s saying right?
To help lighten the mood, I shall ask the following question:
What do you do with an elephant that has three balls?
Walk him and pitch to the rhino
I was gonna say hippo, but…
Ramada Thompson knows best…
https://clip.cafe/hot-shots-1991/im-talking-you-a-psychiatrist/
Bah. Taiwanese league sucks. You can still strike him out. (NB:. There is/was a team called Elephants in the Taiwanese baseball league.)
One bite at a time?
Arte strikes me as reactionary like how he impulsively signs hitters after he misses signing top pitchers or how he pulled out of the Joc/Stripling for Rengifo (!) trade. So his immediate thought might be “how dare Ohtani suggest he wants to leave because we’re losers! We’ll lose if we choose to!”
Perhaps I’m wrong, though….
sad face
Ummmm, and you left out the Dodgers and Yankees who are the two top payrolls in MLB and both of them will be in the playoffs as well.
Serious players for Shohei, serious.
And Good for them and more ‘Power Up” to them.
Heck at least we can’t lose in the first round again…..that hurts more than making the plans of where to watch the Games, watering hole or couch.
Next CBA will open up more playoff spots. Soon will be like the NHL. Everyone makes the playoffs except for a few degenerates. Perry’s job is about to get more easier by lowering the bar. smh
My response to everything that Ohtani, Maddon and Trout have said is…. duh. What the hell else are these guys gonna say?
Everyone from Arte down to 2002Heaven knows this. Now all you have to do is either get one of the two or three vaguely good FA pitchers to sign here (where has Maddon’s charm been on that score?) or guess which loser is going to become Gaussman/Ray this winter…. sans sticky stuff.
We can spend money and still build the farm. Signing a guy like Max, if he wants to come here, can have his cost mitigated by Ohtani’s salary not being that high and all those young pitchers we have here now, plus the ones we just drafted, being cheap.
If we can find guys to pay we should spend now. There will be no point in paying Ohtani a huge contract if we are still this bad in 2023. We wouldn’t sign him like that if we know we need to rebuild with Trout simply being our legacy player. So yes, I’d say this winter and next are perfect times to go over budget as AP and Upton come off the books. Develop some cheap talent to minimize that squeeze as we go. Extend Ohtani in 2023 or trade him if we are flailing.
And yes. Simply having Trout, Rendon, Marsh, Adell, Upton (to take some DH at bats), Sandoval, Canning and a host of other guys healthy again will make a big difference.
Of course, when the CBA failure scuttles all of this it will all be PTP-Arte’s fault just like all of this year’s injuries (and the last few years) have been…. accept back in 2018 when it was Soth sneaking into pitchers hotel rooms snapping their UCLs.
Whatever you do, choose wisely.
I think they could say, “yeah this year was disappointing, but we had injuries and we have young guys coming up and we’ll be better next year.”
Neither this nor what they actually said commits anything, really.
I think they should just shut up, scout the crap out of their favored pitching FA targets, and play no games this winter, make a “look at the talent we have on offense. Look at the talented women in the stands. Look at the talented climate. All we need is pitching, here (insert larger than expected amount) take this money and come win with us.” Then QO or re-sign Iglesias. Also, sign Jonathan Villar. Skimp on a back up catcher and use AAAA players for our 5th OF.
Then vulture the best arms we can add for the rest of the pen, or make trades, but get the bulk of the FA work done hard and fast.
What kind of intelligent response can an FO make to a player’s contention that their crappy team needs to be better? “No shit.”?
That wasn’t your point, though. 😉
May I quote to you from our community guidelines?
Everyone says that they are not worried. Am I the only one who doesn’t really care if he leaves? I like his mindset. If the team sucks, it doesn’t really matter how individual performances are. Good for him I guess, and I can appreciate talent where it is. That’s awesome. But the goal is to win, Anaheim seems to be the ONLY city in the country where the majority of fans don’t really care much about winning. I really think this is true. I saw someone on Instagram on one of the Angels posts was like “Why are you guys being so negative?” maybe because we had to watch crap product for over half a decade? I’m about to get a masters in organizational psychology. So I can see that this organization has dysfunction written all over it. It has a lack of efficiency and productivity. The most important thing for an organization to do is to set goals and accomplish them, and if that can’t be done then change needs to occur. PERIOD. I actualy hope if this team doesn’t play in October in the next two years Shohei leaves. He should leave. It would be a crushing blow for Arte and I think that is the best thing for that narcisstic guy. A little dose of reality. Rant over.
“The most important thing for an organization to do is to set goals and accomplish them, and if that can’t be done then change needs to occur.”
To play devil’s advocate, how do you know what the organization (i.e. Arte’s) goals are? By some metrics, the organization is very successful.
well right, I would say that the goals to Arte are being met, in terms of income, but I think the bad press is adding up, the Skaggs stuff, the Angels wasting Trout, Ohtani might be leaving. The neglecting of aspects of running the organization are starting to become very apparent and I think it is starting to add up.
For some reason, bad press doesn’t really seem to stick to Arte. Perhaps because — as you alluded to– the majority of fans in Orange County don’t really care too much about the Angels winning in the grand scheme of things?
You’re probably right, I think though that if that entire nation of Japan hates the Angels because they don’t get to see Shohei play in the playoffs, it might change the narrative.
I agree about the organizational dysfunction and have been saying that for years.
However, I don’t share your vindictive sentiments about wanting Ohtani to leave and apparently wanting the team to lose to punish Arte. If I want to punish Arte in any way it would be to not attend games or buy merchandise only because I feel that the economic impact of fans withdrawing financial support is perhaps the only way to spur an apathetic owner to change.
Sure, but people don’t go to the games unless there is a reason to. If Shohei leaves, so does the Japanese endorsements he makes. The more boring the Angels are the less he makes, thats what he cares about most. Is making an ENTERTAINING product, not a good product. Things are working well for him right now, fans aren’t going to stop going to the games, but if Shohei leaves it shows the whole world that the Angels suck and are not worth going to. I simply want the team to change, and it won’t until there is a heavy slap in the face, because fans will keep going to the games, which sucks.
AL Wild Card: I’m hoping Toronto knocks off one of the YankSux and then I’ll root for Toronto in the WC game against either of those two.
In the NL I’m hoping St. Louis can stay hot just long enough to knock LA out of the playoffs.
Dodgers win it all and Max feels his mission fulfilled and will head down the 5 Fwy. I can wish, can’t I?
At long last, Thank You Shohei for avenging the JTW unfair treatment at the hands of major league baseball against that Rogue Seager
https://twitter.com/PitchingNinja/status/1442234835766890497
That’s awesome.
Looks like the Clippers starting 5.
Reminds me of Aybar’s foul ball off his cup.
Let’s revisit that play again buddy … Aybar never touched the BASEBALL with anything – nothing impeded its trajectory straight into the Mitch Kupchek from the pitched hand…
FOUND IT.
Just when we thought the “will he leave stories were over” ha ha.
The Angels drafted some serious bullpen arms last summer. Some will start hitting MLB next year. Bachman and Bush could be pushed into bullpen roles the second half of next year as well, or be used as multi inning guys.
With any modicum of luck on the injury front I think we see this team take a solid step forward the second half of next year and be on the serious upswing in Ohtani’s walk year, likely competing for the West. Add that to Ohtani’s comfort level and Arte’s wallet and I think he stays.
Hopefully this comment by Shohei will light a fire under Arte and he finally understands that you sometimes have to overpay for pitching in order to win. This off-season we need to bag either Scherzer or Ray or we’ll be in trouble on the Ohtani front.
I think H.T. hit the nail on the head with this :
“….I am willing to take on bad contracts this off-season because it’s so critical.”
Totally agree. To me this means being willing to overpay for one of the top three FA pitchers on the market.
Ray scares me. Very up and down career until this season.
I think people are sleeping on Stroman. He’s not the Ace that folks want but he’d be a great stabilizing piece who is pretty consistent. Ohtani/Stroman is a nice 1-2 at the top of the rotation. I think the back end has plenty of in house options in Sandoval, Suarez, Detmers, Canning, and Barria.
The bullpen is again a nightmare. At this point Austin Warren is our only guy slated for 2022.
Well, I did not say it but it goes without saying that we’ll need to keep Raisel as well. And of course, you can forget about staying under the cap Arte.
I think Stroman would be a good fit. I’d been calling the potential front line starter acquisition a “pseudo ace” since we need a pitcher who will be as available as an “ace” but doesn’t need to deliver the upside of a “real” ace (but hopefully consistently above average)–we got Shohei for the upside, just not as often as we’d like. That description should apply to Stroman fairly well, I think.
Ohtani, Stroman, Cobb, ?, ?, ?
I don’t think those guys as 1, 2, 3 starters will cut it. Better but not solid enough.
Sandoval, Suarez …
Exactly.
Where the hell eat this will year! – That’s all I can definitively say about this years FA pitching class.
I’m really liking that as our slogan
Say it out loud to yourself. It literally feels like it expresses what ever it is you are trying to say about this season and off season. It’s magic.
Austin Warren is good setup to Iglesias who is a no-brainer to bring back. Overpay, whatever, and consider how much worse the Halos season could have gone without him this year. Halos need 5-6 BP arms which could help bridge some potential 2022 starters, i.e. Barria, Suarez, Canning, Detmers. Meyers should be lesser on the depth chart and Cishek and Quijada = gone. 1 ace could help patch things but the bullpen has to be reliable 1-5 at least. Angels near the bottom in holds. FYI 9 of the 10 teams in holds are in playoff discussions (Padres are well, …the Padres). Contrast to the that, the Astros and Jay’s are worse. Well, they have better starters and offense. The offense will rebound next year so that obviously leaves SP to improve which is where most of the money should be spent. Add a true #1 and #2 and now you have FA#1, Ohtani, FA#2, Sandoval, Cobb (re-sign), Suarez/Barria/Detmers and other guys in the farm to contribute. Find a decent SS and based on this season 2 starters, a retool of the BP and you’re there. Personally, I think SP will cost around $70mil if you include Cobb. If you package some aforementioned pitching to dump Upton and maybe you have more room. I think the Halos have. Add Iglesias at around $20 mil, then you’re pretty muched tapped at around $90mil in my guesstimate of available funds. But if you only grab 1 FA pitcher and roll the dice with current roster, you can upgrade SS and BP, although some aforementioned starters could turn into BP pieces, to which the Halos need at least 3 more guys to help Warren out. Mayers is arb 2 player. Halos per Fangraphs rank 11 in WAR for relievers at 3.7. Seattle is 4th at 6.6. So just think if the BP improved that’s 3 game diff. This could help change divisional seedings next year plus add Trout, Rendon, full season of Marsh and Adell to help win close games in the end. My long winded point is saying 1 ace plus other adjustments could make considerable differences, and a less costlier way is through the BP.
Sandoval, Detmers yes! Suarez, Canning and Barria, HELL NO!!!!
Indeed! You may be pleased to note that I am increasingly open to keeping Raisel on something like a 3/$51M!
Whoa, that’s big. If we go for it next year, might as well.
It might take that but relievers are notoriously liable to flame out
Right but what are the odds he’s actively bad next year?
Pretty low, imo
We need to compete, next year. These “serious” arms will not be ready. Perry’s ability to design a bullpen has me concerned. Horrible to watch that bullpen unfold this year.
*Morgan Freeman voice*
“Nothing changed on the team.”
*Homer Simpson voice*
I think Homer is reacting to Claudio, Slegers, Hoyt, Ciahek, Mayer’s, Selman, Wantz, Quijada, Criswell and Junk,
Since yesterday?
To be fair though, “nothing changes on the team” literally means Trout, Rendon, and to a lesser extent, Upton, are not going to be in full health again next year. I highly doubt that’s going to happen. Yes, the Angels do need another frontline starter, or maybe two. But getting those three guys back on offense in relative full health next year, playing 80-90% of the season, makes a world of difference.
It is like taking our 74-78 win team and signing Trout and Rendon. I think any offseason that included just that would be seen as a win – and seen as a team pushing towards playoff chances.
If we sign pitching on top of that? Well, then we are bound to improve, no?
Find an ace or two? That should get us an additional 10 wins (all told) – and a good shot at playing in October.
A healthy Trouty should be worth 8-9 wins, a healthy Rendon maybe worth 5 wins and letting go of JUp could add a win or two. A healthy team playing at the Big A with 2 very good proven starters could win 91-93 games. But as what seems always there are the dang injuries, especially to Mikey and down hill from there. Looking up I see no Dark Clouds following me, so just maybe we are Playoff bound in ’22 or ’23 or both. But we do need a SS, so there is that.
Villar with Rengifo on the bench? He should probably make about what Iglesias did.
That’s actually not a bad idea. He’s right at league average with the glove. And we have Fletcher as an injury fill in.
I’d probably go Mayfield over Rengifo on the bench but I’m pretty confident I’m going to steal this idea for my “If I Was Perry” piece.
Did you just jinx the Braves?
Having generational superstars like Trout and Ohtani together on one team puts pressure on management to take a win now attitude. Competing is not enough. To have both of them is a 1-in-a-million type situation. It will never happen again in our lifetimes.
So Arte’s going to ha e to break the bank. There is no luxury of time here to build. 2022 and 2023 need to be deep playoff and/or championship years.
I would prefer to build through the farm but that takes too long. Arte is going to have to be willing to go to $200 million-plus.
The team needs a SS, catcher, at least one Ace (Scherzer?), a second starting pitcher and probably 3 bullpen studs. It will be expensive but the stars rarely align to provide a Trout and Ohtani on the same team.
And put Ohtani on a World Series roster and Arte will more than recoup his money.
Agree, we have no runway to develop players, time is now.
The instantaneous improvement would be to sign Max Scherzer. In order to compete in a short playoff series, need a horse. None better than Max and he is a MUST FA sign this offseason. Plus, you can get him on a 3-year deal, maybe give him a 4th year option as the Angels will have plenty of competition for his services from teams with money; Dodgers, Giants and Mariners. Arte cannot f-k this up..
And The Dodgers are going to keep opening the floodgates of money towards Scherzer until they out bid everyone. Kershaw’s wonky back won’t let him pitch an entire season and the Bauer debacle means that they have to keep Scherzer.
Agree…..We can’t compete with the Doyer money printing machine….if they want him, he’s signing there, only wild card is the Padres. Doesn’t even matter they will probably need to pay Bauer and likely will sign Kershaw to a friendly contract.
And we’ll need to overpay whoever we end up tricking to come here. Just hope it’s not another 5 year deal where we need to eat the last 2 years due to injury or general suckage.
Agree, we can’t compete with the Dodgers funding sources but like every team, they have a limit. Go balls out, fuck it. Max or bust.
Well, you can say we have to have him too!
But in the end that is just a word.
At the end of the day you have to be committed to not losing a bidding war. This is why the Yankees got Cole. They were committed to not losing him and we were not.
Arte sets a limit, and anything above that has to get his approval.
That is what this whole post is about !!!!
Arte will have to change his ways if he wants to keep Ohtani. Did you miss the point I was trying to make or that most of us here are talking about?
If it was not clear to Arte before it better well be now that he simply can’t stay under the Luxury Tax threshold and expect to keep his All Time great pitcher/power hitter. He will have to spend on pitching this off-season.
It’s as simple as that.
All we have to do is trade Justin Upton and we can afford all of these new players.
..All we have to do is get Upton to waive his NTC, and then determine what prospect we’d need to attach to get some GM enticed to make a deal.
So we’re screwed.
Attached Detmers to him and get rid or the MF.
That’s… that’s a horrible idea.
Well just cut him and eat the salary. Plan B.
I think if he’s any good come March they keep him, if he’s toast they just cut him. Why give up Detmers?
Agree, attach something else. It’s probably the only way we get out of the contract.
March or Marsh?