LA Angels Thursday News Crash: Ohtani Is Influential

Shohei Ohtani was named one of the 100 most influential people of 2021 by Time Magazine.  Who here would deny that Ohtani is influential? He’s a sensation!

Jo Adell is on the ten day injured list, although Joe Maddon said he didn’t think Adell would be back this season.  He also said he’d be surprised if Mike Trout plays anymore this season. 

Dylan Bundy is confident he will pitch again in 2021.  Meanwhile, Matt Harvey is on the ten day injured list. 

Most of the recent Angels castoffs are not doing so hot in their new homes.  However, Noé Ramirez is doing reasonably well with the Diamondbacks

José Iglesias is adding some offense to the Red Sox lineup. 

Jay Jaffe examines the possible permutations of who the wild card teams might be and the likelihood that there might be tiebreaker games

The Yankees and Mets have allegedly buried the hatchet, although it looks a little bit like the Mets might have thrown Francisco Lindor under the bus while doing so. 

It looks like the Cardinals have got a playoff spot

Ha ha ha ha!  Perry should trade for this guy.  (Just a bit low and inside for a ball.)

Photo credit: Rex Fregosi

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Designerguy
Super Member
2 months ago

Wishing all of our CTPG Jewish friends and their families a happy Yom Kippur.

If you haven’t, there’s still time to call Stephen Colbert’s Atone Phone.

Senator_John_Blutarsky
Super Member
2 months ago
Reply to  H.T. Ennis

Paprika be gone. It took way too long.

DowningDude
Super Member
2 months ago

The Petricka era is over. 🙁

JackFrost
Super Member
2 months ago
Reply to  DowningDude

Funny Pet Tricks are only good for so long….

DowningDude
Super Member
2 months ago
Reply to  H.T. Ennis

Oh boy. He will become a triple amputee soon.

Fansince1971
Super Member
2 months ago

Chatted a little about this last night. It’s been a long time since the Angels had a trade chip like Ohtani. His value has skyrocketed per Baseball Trade Values to nearly 170.

A fun exercise is to go on that BTV site and play around with what the Angels could get in return for Ohtani while his value is this high. Look at teams with great farm systems like the Blue Jays. Per BTV, Ohtani could return absolute stud SS Bichette and starter Manoah. I would be tempted simply because the Angels have so many holes and Ohtani’s value will arguably never be higher.

The caveat is I don’t love the prospect of trading Ohtani. But there is no doubt that now is the time if the Angels do not plan on keeping him long term. His trade value is unlikely to ever be higher.

Last edited 2 months ago by Fansince1971
h27kim
Trusted Member
2 months ago
Reply to  Fansince1971

One important reason (I’m being a Devil’s advocate here) to trade Ohtani is that, at least for us, he’s not quite as valuable as he should be b/c he’s not a full time player at any position as long as he remains a two way player. He’s not the ace he should be, b/c his availability will be limited (as a pitcher, 120-150 innings per year even under ideal conditions, probably no more than average of 6 innings at around 90 pitches per start); no regular role in OF b/c he needs to pitch, despite having the talent to be a good or even great OF; probably needs a couple of days off a week as a DH, to preserve his energy, given how he declined down the stretch this year–and even if it’s b/c the competition is starting to figure him out, rather than just fatigue, it’ll still require time for him to do HW to keep up his edge as a hitter, which will compete for his availability as a pitcher, both on the mound and in doing requisite HW. He’s one heck of an extra piece for a team that does not need another full time starting pitcher or a position player who needs to be available full time, but we need full time players in multiple roles, and we can’t rely on Ohtani to meet them: we still need a full time (near) top of the rotation SP, etc.

Last edited 2 months ago by h27kim
JackFrost
Super Member
2 months ago
Reply to  Fansince1971

People have fun thinking about those possibilities, but I stick by the principal that the team who receives the best player in a trade almost always “wins” the trade. In your example trading Ohtani for Bichette and Manoah would be ridiculously stupid. For several reasons… But mainly Ohtani the hitter is not just a little bit better than Bichette but alot better as a hitter (Bichette wRC + of 119 and Ohtani wRC+ of 151) and Ohtani the pitcher is better than Manoah ( Manoah fWAR of 1.5 and Ohtani fWAR of 2.7 as pitcher).

In short, just forget about your crazy ideas. You can forget the prospects hall as well. Especially in baseball a bird in the hand is worth more than 7 or 8 in the bush, not just two.

And that is just the baseball part. We didn’t even talk about marketing and ticket sales and value Ohtani brings to the org in those domains.

Last edited 2 months ago by JackFrost
Fansince1971
Super Member
2 months ago
Reply to  JackFrost

I fully understand the analysis. How about Vlad Jr straight up for Ohtani if Toronto would do it?

Again – the only reason to consider is the idea of trading while the trade value is highest.

H.T. Ennis
Admin
Super Member
2 months ago
Reply to  Fansince1971

By similar logic, shouldn’t we not re-sign Raisel, because he’s pitching the best he ever has at the moment? 😉

Fansince1971
Super Member
2 months ago
Reply to  H.T. Ennis

‘17 and ‘18 were very similar seasons for Raisel. In ‘19 his ERA was elevated and he still had 34 saves.

H.T. Ennis
Admin
Super Member
2 months ago
Reply to  Fansince1971

Aging curves!

Fansince1971
Super Member
2 months ago
Reply to  H.T. Ennis

Or ageless?

H.T. Ennis
Admin
Super Member
2 months ago
Reply to  Fansince1971

If you want to bet on that, be my guest! Just don’t see how these two points overlap =)

Fansince1971
Super Member
2 months ago
Reply to  H.T. Ennis

Age-ism?

All you young guys want us old guys to get out of the way! 😎

JackFrost
Super Member
2 months ago
Reply to  Fansince1971

I think that is a little more reasonable. Vlad Jr brings the whole “Son of Vlad” thing which the team could play up as well. That one you would at least have to consider….

However I think I would still keep Ohtani just because this team is so pitching starved. Don’t think we should trade away our best and most reliable starting pitcher, even though Vlad Jr. will be very good for years.

gitchogritchoffmypettis
Super Member
Reply to  JackFrost

This is what I was thinking too. To trade Ohtani I’d want whom ever is the best cost controlled starter in the game right now, maybe a mid-teens pitching prospect, and a serviceable short stop. Something like that might work.

DowningDude
Super Member
2 months ago
Reply to  Fansince1971

Vlad Jr – I see as a soon-to-be Panda (Pablo Sandoval of the Giants). Not sure his body is sustainable. I may be wrong, but whatever. If he can stick in the bigs – I might have had a chance with my rounded dad-bod.

JackFrost
Super Member
2 months ago
Reply to  DowningDude

That is true about his body. Of course having a DH in the AL (maybe soon to be NL too?) helps alot with the aging concerns.

gitchogritchoffmypettis
Super Member
Reply to  Fansince1971

Here’s an exercise for our brains. What were some of the BIGGEST star trades in recent memory? Since scouting analytics made prospects valued the way they are now?

Like the Chris Sale trade. A top of the top of the line player moving.

How did those trades work out? Have any of them been similar to the Herschel Walker trade back in the 80s, where a team just gets built buy a trade haul? We’d need a pile of solid pitching prospects and a serviceable shortstop in return for Ohtani’s WAR and his marketing value. Any examples of such a trade working out that we can think of? I’m drawing a blank. And who could we make that trade with?

FungoAle
Super Member
2 months ago

Cobber is back today? Nice to see someone pushing to get back before years end.

Senator_John_Blutarsky
Super Member
2 months ago

Ohtani is slumping offensively at the wrong time. The post-season award voters are a notoriously fickle group. If the slump continues, he very well could miss winning the MVP.

DowningDude
Super Member
2 months ago

I’ve already surrendered to the fact he won’t win because of the exact reason you presented.

Fansince1971
Super Member
2 months ago

Slumping is the wrong word. How about completely lost at the plate? He is as bad now as he was great before. A slump is one thing. A dump is another.

BoyWithApple
Member
Trusted Member
2 months ago
Reply to  Fansince1971

I’m expecting his helmet to start falling off of his head after every swing again.

Senator_John_Blutarsky
Super Member
2 months ago
Reply to  BoyWithApple

Well, he hasn’t done a Rendon yet – that is hitting a foul ball off his body that requires a multi-week stay on IR

Fansince1971
Super Member
2 months ago
Reply to  BoyWithApple

Or maybe he strikes out and pulls off his face and we see it’s not really Ohtani the last month but Jeff Mathis.

Last edited 2 months ago by Fansince1971
Fansince1971
Super Member
2 months ago
Reply to  BoyWithApple

Since August 1 he’s had 132 ABs and is batting around .170 with 7 HR.

Since Sept 1 he’s had 38 ABs and is batting .158 with 2 HR.

Oh – and 50 Ks in his last 138 ABs. That is a pace for 200 Ks in a season.

That’s 6 awful weeks over almost 140 ABs. That’s way more than a slump.

Last edited 2 months ago by Fansince1971
Fleckstein
Member
2 months ago
Reply to  Fansince1971

Yeah, I keep getting late-2014 Hamilton flashbacks when I see Ohtani in the batter’s box of late.

YOUknowulovetheIE
Trusted Member
2 months ago
Reply to  Fansince1971

You think the slump wouldn’t last thing long, but it just keeps going. Rest, better umpiring, and some line up protection will be the cure for next season.

steelgolf
Super Member
2 months ago
Reply to  Fansince1971

I’ve said it before, the league is adjusting to him by throwing low, away, sliders off the plate. Now Ohtani just needs to be Trout like, and adjust to them.

JackFrost
Super Member
2 months ago
Reply to  steelgolf

Yep. I have not looked at the chase numbers but it does seem that Shohei is swinging at alot more balls than he did in the first half. Usually his plate discipline is pretty good. I think he does have the potential to be a pretty good “bad ball hitter” but I think his focus and concentration at the plate are probably waning…

Again, I think this has alot to do with fatigue, both mental and physical.

nishiogawakun
Trusted Member
2 months ago

Tbh, this has been one of the painful aspects of the whole season for me. No playoff run? What else is new. Lots of injuries? Turn the page. Buckets of bad PR? Makes me sick. But at the VERY least we were watching history be made. Sure, it’s still history, and it’s still amazing, but this slump is just deflating the last bit of joy I was holding on to for this team this year.

Fansince1971
Super Member
2 months ago
Reply to  nishiogawakun

Really well said. I totally agree.