A’s 8, Angels 3
It’s the big leagues, so results always matter, but some days they matter less than others. In the grand scheme of things, whether today was a win or a loss paled in comparison to the focus on all eyes, which were directed at Reid Detmers.
First, the overall. Detmers pitched 4.1 innings, allowing six earned runs (one inherited), walking two and striking out two. The strike zone for him was fairly good (umpire called one strike a ball). He threw 55 of 82 pitches for strikes, and according to Baseball Savant, tossed 26 four-seamers, 22 curveballs, 16 sinkers, 14 sliders, and 4 changeups. (The fastball and the sinker looked identical to me, but I’m just taking what the tracker says literally.) The two long balls he gave up were killer.
Detmers’s fastball command was all over the place.
It’s got to be better if he wants to succeed in the Majors, and I do think it will get better. But right now if the location is missed, since it’s sitting 93 (dipped down later in the outing), it’s getting crushed by Major League-caliber hitters.
The curveball and the slider looked like weapons, and as Detmers gets better they will be out pitches. Ultimately he only had two strikeouts today and the location was not great, but the break on the curveball and the whip of the slider satisfied.
It wasn’t the greatest debut, but one can see the promise in Detmers. He’s going to be pretty good. If he sticks in the rotation, his next start should be against the Dodgers.
On the offensive side, the Angels couldn’t do much against Cy Rookie and lost the series 3-1.
Said last night ESPN’s Sunday Night Baseball Countdown Show that the Doyers and D-Rays are the two best run organizations in MLB right now from a farm system stand point. In other words like Alabama football in recruiting ( just keep on finding and getting 4 and 5 star athletes and cranking them out ). We’re trying to be like Oakland and Milwaukee and trying to find cheap bargains to compete.
Baseball Operations that are separated from team ownership and well funded are the key. Having a very good and autonomous President of Baseball Operations is important.
If it was simple, most teams in the league would be as good. Those things obviously help but the Dodgers and Rays have a level of consistency and effectiveness in player acquisition and development that is uniquely fruitful.
It’s not a coincidence those two organizations share a common link in Friedman. Whatever he discovered/created in his time in Tampa is obviously still working at a high level. The Dodgers ownership helps but that doesn’t explain how guys like Justin Turner, Chris Taylor, Muncy all blossom from easily acquirable scraps into guys that get MVP votes.
Rocker will be a future Houston Astro.
They just know how to game the system better than everybody else. 😝 😫 😢 💩 😠 👎
The A’ss have some secret roid they get away with or some crazy work out regimen. Every dude on that team is built or in great shape.
Speaking of secret roids.. What do the Dodgers put in their Gatorade? Albert Pujols is hitting like its 2005 again for them.. EXACTLY AS WE KNEW HE WOULD. Everything they do works.
i’m sorry to say that Pujols is virtually the same hitter, except they have the luxury of playing him only against lefties. Ironically, a Pujols/Walsh platoon would be very effective.
Sadly his OPS is nearly 130 points higher with the Doyers than it was with us.. his highest since 2016. Basically the last season he was playable. And yes we could have used him amidst all the injuries. Especially the version they are getting. I notice either they or he tweaked his swing to load with a more pronounced leg kick and that seems to be keeping his front side closed and allowing him to land on time more consistently. They always just do good things and I hate it.
Because of platoon splits…
Did we already forget how he couldn’t hit lefties with us??
OPS vs Lefties 2020: .627
OPS vs Lefties With Doyers: .951
Something is in the Gatorade.
he had an .878 OPS vs. lefties with the Angels in 2021…
this was something that people were commenting on, that Pujols could hit lefties again…
That is a really small sample of AB’s vs Lefties with us this year and there is no doubt in my mind that if he stayed with us we would have seen those numbers regress. They are keeping him fresh.. I’ll give you that. But either way he has been better there. I mean even just the willingness to change his swing mechanics is telling. We saw the same approach at the plate for years here. He goes there and the notoriously stubborn Pujols incorporates a drastic swing change to his game? I think it speaks to a larger culture of player development and team buy in that they have going on AND that we lack.
Yes, his sample size of ~30 is clearly so so small compared to his sample size of ~70 with the Dodgers. So so sorry for trying to engage you in this point.
I think it goes to Pujols being kind of an asshole.
That’s definitely a factor
A little off topic, but maybe the Angels knew there were signability issues with Rocker, and that’s why they passed on drafting him.
Angels signed 19 out of 20 draft picks, excellent. The lone hold-out No.20. Marcelo Perez. He’ll go back to TCU to improve his draft stock next year.
19 of 20 is incredible
I posted this in the game thread. I had the same thought. Hopefully it’s a sign that the new front office has their shit together.
Either way, good call and bullet dodged.
Yeah, this AM I was watching to see if Marcelo would make it a clean 100% but seems as if he is a lock for the rotation and TCU has a good program. They had 6 players drafted this year and the Halo’s signed their catcher post-draft.
I’m confused. I thought Passan’s tweet was a typo, but apparently, Rocker really isn’t going back to Vanderbilt and instead “will work out in his own” before re-entering the draft next year. Does this even make sense, especially if he is looking to make himself a better draft candidate?
This is from someone who doesn’t know how this stuff works, so take it with a grain of salt.
Everyone seems to know what Rocker’s stuff is. So from a stuff standpoint, there’s not much else he could do to make himself look more attractive. It’s his health that is the concern. Now, I’m sure Vandy would do its best to make sure not to overwork him, etc, because they want to get the next generation of baseball players. But to me it makes more sense for Rocker to be on his own, where he can set his own pace, etc, don’t push anything too hard. His goal for the year should just be to stay healthy, and he should be able to command a $5-$6M bonus once again next year.
He could also pitch overseas and make money, whereas even if he would be able to make money at Vandy, it wouldn’t be a salary.
Agree H.T., he could only hurt his stock.
He probably took money from Boras and can’t go back to NCAA.
He already asked for crazy money so can’t look back at a discount.
I see Rocker as a very strong and talented player. Depending on what is wrong, the Braves ain’t touching it, so it must be super cereal. taking a year off to get fixed, or to just heal. Is a good thing on the are with less wear and tear. Doing this may also keep him out of the Minors faster.
He’s self-insured, I would think, and will get himself fixed up, on the down-low. If he plays for anyone else, the real secret will get out, plus he is damaged goods, and no one will touch him.
Hmmm. Maybe your right, though I’d think Vandy has a vested interest in rehabing him, and has the resources to do it. Then if he comes back strong he’s a lock because he did it in the SEC. But maybe it’s better to do it himself? I mean, he has BorasCorp resources to work with.
Boras knows exactly what to do to maximize Rocker’s pay day.
I have been saying it since I’ve watched Rocker since he was a high school kid who aligned with our draft position years ago. I have no actual hard data to back this up, it’s just pure BS from my head, but he just reminds me of a guy who has always been the hugest guy in school and has never really had to work. He was tubby at 18. He’s tubby now. He didn’t really develop much at Vanderbilt, same two pitches, etc. Leiter really outshined him that way. It’s a totally empty opinion, but I also just never “liked” him. In the very limited stuff I have seen of him online he has this weird mix of kind of being aloof (shy?) but also being really high on himself. His dad also kind of rubbed me the wrong way when I’d hear him talk.
Again, totally empty calories here, but the whole vibe with the guy was always meh and I wasn’t shocked at all that 9 GMs passed on him and I wanted us to as well. This whole “f*** the best baseball program in college, I’m gonna train myself.” thing totally feels like something he’d do instead of dealing with the injury and then playing at Vanderbilt. If he’s partnered with Vandy he can’t control the bullshit or the brand. I could be totally wrong, he could be the greatest guy ever, just look like a tool on social media like thousands of other guys, and work harder than anyone. I just didn’t get that sense.
I can’t understand why the Mets didn’t sign him. If it’s an arm issue, sign him for $6mm (doesn’t even count against cap), immediately get him a TJ appointment and he’s still on track to be in the majors in 2-3 years. And for Rocker, heck sign for $4mm and do the same plan. Now he’s not making any (or much) money this year and is almost certainly not going to get TJ surgery on his own—thus pushing all his earning years back after he finally does. This one makes no sense to me from both camps.
What if it is a shoulder issue?Everyone is assuming elbow be we don’t know the exact issue that came up in the medicals.
I liked his stuff. If he can get ahead of hitters and hit his spots better for fastballs, he’ll last longer, and get more confidence. Those breaking balls, once ahead help finish off hitters. Oakland is a tough test. Had he gone against Texas I think he would’ve looked more promising. Keep him up
Elvis made his Angels debut at AA today . He was a hunk a hunk of burning poo
nice job Goody on the Southside today
He pimped the shit out of that HR.
I was saying last year that we should have kept him. He would look good in RF right now for us…
Staying off the site did not work for a second day in a row.
Keep him in the rotation to get seasoned and start to feel comfortable. The Angels are not making the playoffs, so may as well get some guys experience. I was at the Giants v. Astros game today and got to see Kris Bryant hit his first home run as a Giant, and watch the Trashtros lose while Altuve was loudly booed at each at bat. Also had the crab sandwich, which was pricey but delicious.
That sandwich sounds delicious.
Also, how’s that stadium? I’ve heard it’s beautiful. Only seen it from the outside.
The stadium is amazing. Not all of the food establishments or the kids areas are open but still amazing. You can walk around the concourse and look down on right, then turn your head and look down on the bay and the kayakers waiting for home run balls. Fans were great.
Oh man, wish I was able to check it out when I was in SF. Definitely on my list.
Only other MLB stadium I’ve been to is Coors Field a couple years ago. It was beautiful. Was visiting my sister. Makes me sad to think about. Damn.
This was my second time at Oracle. My wife is from Marin County. Sad thing is I was up here for a “Celebration Of Life” , where I also spoke. But today, it was a good day.
I’m glad you had a good time today, and sorry for your loss, steel.
Lost my older sister out of nowhere about 45 days ago. She was 37. Fuckin hurts, man.
Sorry for your loss. Mine was for my mother in law, fought brain cancer for 11 years. Has really taken a toll on my wife and her siblings. The weight has been lifted.
I’m glad there’s been relief for your family. Wish you all the best.
You too. Lost my mom and sister to cancer and they were both 42. Needless to say I was nervous the entire year when I was 42.
Yea, I would have been scared too.
I got married in Oct 2020 and I didn’t invite her to my wedding. It was a personal decision, a safe play, since she could sometimes be a wild card and I didn’t want to risk any drama on that day. Now it’s one of my biggest regrets not having her there. It hurt her… a lot.
I didn’t know how severe her situation was until it was too late. Even if I would have known though, I’m not sure I could have helped. You can’t force someone to seek/receive help when they don’t want it. But I would have tried harder. Addiction is no joke. Still can’t shake the feeling I could have done more.
Unfortunately you can’t help those who don’t want to stop the cycle and help themselves. I have seen it multiple times, lost my first friend when I was 17, he was 19 and I had just seen him play a punk show, 6 hrs later I get a call that he was found in his bed. Heroin and meth destroys lives and potential, and the aftermath can destroy families and their friends. Sometimes you try to help, but it is just a bottomless pit, or never ending circle because the person just doesn’t want it enough to quit. I’m so sorry for your loss and the fallout.
In the autumn, they have a vendor with a Ghirardelli hot chocolate tank on his back.
It’s a great stadium. I was there back in 2011.
I’ve had the crab sandwich; really good!
Also, I love that stadium — definitely in my Top 5.
meanwhile, this must be the Amazing Criswell’s AAA debut. In the 2nd inning, 0-0 game, 1 out now. 2 Ks so far among the first 4 outs.
two full innings for Criswell. 0 runs, 1 hit. 3 Ks in Albuquerque where runs happen a lot.
Criswell through 3 in 27 pitches. 0 runs, 1 hit, 4 ks
Criswell’s AAA debut, now 4 innings, 1 hit, 0 runs, 7 Ks, 43 pitches. I’m impressed.
Wai a minute! You love you some C Willy!?! I loves me some C Willy!
Free C Willy!
Didn’t that get Mickey Calloway into trouble?
Where’s he at now? Moar updates, E in P!
Unfortunately he got hit in the 5th and 6th and the Bees ended up losing 4-3.
He needed you to keep updating us here
Re the critical takes on Detmers’ future after this one outing. I think he’ll be fine as long as he locates more effectively. The slider and change are definitely “out pitches”, in my opinion. He simply didn’t have good command today. Falling behind in counts and not executing pitches (aka not spotting his pitches where they need to be or finishing off the pitch well) does not equal “he doesn’t have an out pitch”.
Look at the curve to Olson. Look at the slider to Lowrie. Those pitches were executed well. Those are out pitches. He didn’t execute enough of those today. When they’re that well-executed, those pitches probably are not getting fouled off. Too many fastballs in hittable locations were being fouled off. Some curveballs that he left too high were fouled off. Again, because they weren’t executed, not because they’re not good enough.
Also, he didn’t even have a good change up today. He’s not a “soft tossing lefty with no out pitch”. Just wasn’t on his game today.
The soft-tossing comment was consistent with what we saw today. Turks said his fb velocity went up recently.
Today we didn’t see it however. He was living around 91 mph with fastball. That equates to “soft-tossing” in my book.That can be done but your location has to be flawless. That was not the case today.
I saw quite a few 93 or 94 mph fastballs on the screen during the game.
I’ll go back and check. I remember seeing a lot of 91 and 92 mph.
He was living at 91? In the first couple innings he was 93-94. Then he dropped to 92-93.
You’re referencing 91, but that was his low end velo. Personally, I wouldn’t categorize that as “living” at 91. Also, considering he was averaging 20+ pitches per inning, and mostly threw roughly 85 pitches in his minor league starts, he was gassed.
Frost’s over all point is still true. Even if he lived at 94 he’s gotta locate his fastball better…. or throw 104. It’s fine, command within the zone is something most guys don’t pick up till they need it against better competition. It’s most likely what the Angels want him to get a look at these next couple months…. see the problems, fix the problems.
Agreed on the command. No argument there
Correct. Also pitch selection- maybe you mix up the order of the pitches or throw sliders in fastball counts. That comes with seasoning.
He became pretty predictable that he was going to start off batters with fastballs to get ahead 0-1. Olson was sitting dead red.
Was he shaking off Stassi or was Stassi calling the pitches?
According to baseballsavant, Patrick Sandoval’s average fastball velocity this year is 93 mph.
To your point, the improvement from Sandoval this season is with his ability to locate his pitches.
The first AB by Olson was very well pitched by Detmers. Especially that 3-2 curve that he struck Matt out on, which really had him flailing… Unfortunately he got a little sloppy with his location in that 3rd inning. To echo what DMAG said, with the soft tossers once you are into the second time around the order it gets more dangerous….
The A’s saw him, saw his stuff and exposed him. Tough first outing. Let’s hope the fastball velocity comes back.
Yes, the amount of contact foul balls is common, with teams not the Angels, to do on first time viewing of a non established pitcher. The line up comes into the game with a lead off mentality. Trying to view as many angles, and speeds, of the pitches the batter has in his arsenal.
The thing about Detmer they did not get me excited when he was drafted was that he was a low 90s guy relying on lefty breaking balls- not a lot of swing and miss. He’s been succeeding in the minors probably due to his increased velocity. Pumping 94-97 at times makes a difference. But if he can’t crank it in MLB at mid 90s, he’s going to be Dillon Peters. The difference between him being a #3 type of starter or back of the rotation AAAA guy.
Soooo…. a bust?
Actually think it’s been the improvement in his secondaries (change, slider) that allowed him to be so successful at missing bats in AA. His fastball command was much better working 92-94 than working 94-96.
He just can’t place that four seamer middle of the zone like he did today, unless he’s integrating the change more with good separation. When he was getting double digit strikeout results in Alabama, he was working the FB top of the zone.
He does not seem to be a swing to miss pitcher in the Majors, but if he works on refining his control with that movement he has, and that change, into someone that can induce outs on the ground on a regular scale. He will be a pitcher they won’t want to face.
Let’s take this as a learning experience on what he actually has, not so much on what he is able to do with it at the moment.
Perry better have an idea of a pitching philosophy, and a coach on every level to implement it for the future, now.
Pretty much. Leave it to the CtPG brain trust to watch 4 innings of a guy and start crying like a kid who’s been handed a slice of cake made of baked hair. He sucked because he left his fastball over the plate. If anyone needs to feel better about this, here’s a list of successful left handed pitchers who only threw 92-95….
All of them. Accept for like a dozen pitchers. All of the rest of the successful lefties threw in the low to mid nineties. If Detmers still sucks after say 30 starts then I’ll worry. If he still sucks in 2023 I’ll start thinking he may be a bust.
He definitely needs to develop an out pitch if he’s going to throw 92-94.
Today it looked like he was topping out at 92,93mph.
I don’t remember seeing 94, but I could have missed one.
That was just an estimate by me. Could have been 92-93.
They were posting during Eaton’s outing on the TV that he topped out at 90, but the stories after the game had him anywhere from 87-89 tops.
Dumbrus at any speed is Bally’s
Maybe we will get to see more of the young players coming up now that this team is essentially out of it.
I want to see them try Stefanic (STRAIT OUTA WESTMONT BABY!), just like everyone, and I’m sure we’ll see Adell. bunch of the more interesting pitchers just jumped A+ to AA so we probably won’t see them.
Mayfield’s been fun, seen enough. Rengifo is not the answer.
More Stefanic and Rojas.
You got it!
LOL, I love it. Was a teenager coming home with a good buzz when I flipped on the television and remember the jingle..”Stepahn, Jaaack Stephan.” But not as creepy as Zamfir and the Magical Pan-flute infomercials at 1:00am.
Jaaaack can stick it up your ass pipe.
I’m gonna drop some Schick Shadle on you soon…. or Debbie Dootson Trucking school.
Ames Home Loan to the rescue!
Extend Max Stassi.
Sounds like an ED drug…not that there’s anything wrong with that.
I will gladly have a catcher who isn’t an offensive black hole for longer than 4 hours.
will bring you Cuban cigars….catches long time.
This would be my No.1 extension.
It’s one game of what hopefully will be a long career. He’ll learn from the experience and adapt, or in 7 years he’ll be traded to the Yankees for the 2028 version of Junk and Elvis.
Never too early to look ahead. We are sitting now with the 13th pick. An Ausmus-esque finish might get us to 6 or 7.
Draft Rocker? Get ESPN off our dix?
Technically we’re sitting at the 14th pick since the Mets are getting the 11th pick next year. Damn them. So aim for pick 10, Halos!
Fun game to go to (my kids friend’s bday, 5 y/o). Hot sitting in 121 but that’s first world problems. Got to meet an old work buddy too. Let’s go AAÅngels
Thought Detmers looked pretty good. He has MLB stuff. That curveball! He needs work to learn how to pitch and stay out of the middle of the plate. But I’m optimistic.
Yeah. I literally would think to myself “damn, he has some legit pitches in his mix” and then OOPS! He looked like a good prospect up from AA. Those pitches you leave in the meat of the zone…. yeah, you can’t do that here. But still, I like the idea of him getting kicked around a little in the end of a meaningless season. He has tools, he’ll make mistakes and learn, I bet he’ll be pretty good… or he’ll be Heaney.
My eyeballs have seen over 100 games.
Oh, shoot. Not sure if you were directly referencing this, but who was the person who originally said something like that? “These eyes have seen 400 games” or something like that. I believe it was an Angels beat writer. Haven’t thought about that comment in some time.
Lyle Spencer, if I recall his name. I just knew him as Jeff Mathis’ uncle.
It was Lyle….4000 games?
The Old Finger Wagging Scold Lyle.
It always makes me laugh…. we hated Lyle for his “I have watched 4000 games with my eyes” flex…. but this site is dripping with pretty much the same guy, plus “I know analytics” guy, though he’s less loud now that anyone who wants to know analytics knows analytics.
There’s so many stats to look at. Anyone can read a graph or chart or reference something that sounds fancy. I’d love to know out of all those stats which ones teams like the Dodgers, Rays, Giants, Milwaukee value.
I’m sure some stats are way more important than others as far as predicting future success. But I have no clue which ones those are.
Well, I know one of them is spin rate… so they are all stupid.
Yes! That’s the dude. Oooh man, he was so bad. Wonder what ol’ Spence is up to nowadays.
Easily the worst beat writer we ever had. Condescending as heck.
For the last 5 years, we all talk about how the Angels need to get on a hot streak and have a shot at the wild card. And every single year, the same results. Finally got football around the corner to distract me from this team.
We still need that Hot Streak this year!
Glad we ain’t Texas, then this town would be pissed that baseball is done