As you probably know, Justin Upton is on the ten day injured list with back issues. Kean Wong is back up from the minors. The results with Taylor Ward in left field have been less than good. Friday we saw an agonizing loss to the Tampa Bay Rays. Saturday’s game was downright embarrassing. About Saturday’s game, Joe Maddon said “That’s just a butt-kicking right there, nothing you can do about that.” Do you think the Angels are ready to sell?
Links From Around Baseball
Our old friend, Hector Santiago, was ejected yesterday after an equipment check. His glove was confiscated. It looks like he is the first winner of a ten day paid vacation.
Freddy Galvis is out for a month or two with a right quadriceps strain.
The Rangers Willie Calhoun has a fractured forearm after being hit by a pitch. Bryce Harper was also hit by a pitch while trying to bunt. It doesn’t appear as though he will be out for long.
Mike Soroka might be completely done. He achieved a total re-tear of his Achilles tendon while walking to the team’s clubhouse on Thursday.
Neftali Feliz is back. This time he is with the Phillies.
Michael Fulmer is on the injured list with a right cervical spine strain.
Tommy Pham settled his lawsuit with the strip club for good money, but “not like baseball money.”
Photo credit: Rex Fregosi
Trout to 60 day injured list?
To make room on the 40 man, for Schlebler?
Got hurt 5/17 so can still come back mid July? I wish sooner, like before ASG
The correct Answer is D) All of the Above.
There is no point in rushing Trout back. It would be silly to think our pen will turn things around and with Joe’s quick hook and penchant for pitch count fever, we are not climbing back into the hunt. Blue Jays/Yanks/Indians/As are all non-division leaders who will claim the Wild Card spots. Angels are not better than those teams.
There is just ZERO reason to see Mike back before July.
Yesterday Fletch returned to the top of the line-up and had 2 more hits to lead the team in hits now. But Joe is a stubborn man as he refuses to move Tony down in the order. At least the Goose is starting to see more action.
I have never in my life seen anyone do the things Shohei can do and does. Eppler and Trouty to some degree brought him to the team and this season is a legit MVP at the half way point. Now on to Yankee Stadium where more people will see Ohtani on one night than any other night ever. The only thing he can do to show how great he is to the East Coast is hit a GS off Cole or maybe even pitch a No-No.
I don’t think we see Cole in this series.
Schebs finally called up!
Renny go down?
Kean
I think we should sell… Perry. He may be have literally been the worst performing GM. He said his top priority was run prevention. He went on to assume more responsibility than he had to by saying it wasn’t about pitching acquisitions but “other things” that included defense and mysterious unspoken stuff that I assumed was analytics, game plans and new age in game strategy. It’s pretty fair to say our defense has been atrocious, his analytics non-existent and free agents among the worst. Perry has been an utter failure , that I hate to say it, surviving off Eppler ‘s scraps.
Of course nothing bothers me more when a complete nobody does a shitty job and acts like he’s doing well. I mean we all have eyes dude. The team is horrendous in the field. Perry’s contributions have to be near replacement level. He keeps saying we need to wait and see what happens. Seriously he’s a huge 0 right now.
Why all that you say maybe true, when you inherit a lot of marginal players and the Owner tells you do not bring in anyone that will raise the payroll followed by injuries to your LF, CF, RF, 3b, and have Albert then you end up with Ward, Lagares, Rojas, Rengifo, Goose, Wong as the back ups, not to sure as late as he came aboard that he should that a pounding. At least Walsh has worked out nicely and Ward has surprised some and Goose is a surprise also, well Perry hasn’t done that bad.
Angels have the 6th highest payroll, not like he is cheap Arte. Perry just signed the wrong guys are failed to make astute deals. Rookie GM mistake by listening to his manager suggest players that he felt were clubhouse fits regardless of recent performance. Perry had enough financial cushion to bring in better players by arranging the chairs on the deck if he had to. He whiffed. It’s quite clear. Now, Having said that, yeah, Arte’s fingerprints are on Albert and Anthony.
As disappointed as I am, I still think you need to give PTP at least 2 drafts minimum. This first one coming up should tell us where his head is as far as future players and depth.
I really bought into the “soft contact and good defense = fewer runs allowed” thing that Perry tried this year. And I still think it can work at the MLB level. But it hasn’t this year. Some is on Perry, some is not.
Rendon being hurt, Fletcher playing hurt, Iglesias getting off to a career worst start with the glove. Those are unforeseeable.
He moved Albert off first to play Walsh there. Solid move.
But the lack of corner outfield depth is killing us. At best, we’d have had Upton/Trout/Fowler which is bad. Lagares hit well enough to earn a spot but that leaves one, now two, bad spots.
Ideally I’d keep Lagares in CF and move Trout to right.
Of course, this only works on balls in play. The bullpen giving up HR right and left is not helping.
Tracking here Jeff. I know you were a proponent of the pitch-to-contact, nothing wrong with the approach but when those guys cannot throw strikes, the hitters can wait for their pitch without the fear of being overmatched by a fastball. Slegers, Hoyt, Cishek, “Gas Can” Guerra all struggle throwing strikes. Claudio is a LOOGY and has been quite effective but with the 3-batter rule, has has been spanked his fair share. Mayers throws hard but his pitches seem flatter with less movement this year. .
It’s all in my posts but my chiefs concerns in the offseason involved three positions: RF, Bullpen and 1B. Sadly, 2 out of 3 came to fruition. Walsh erased everything but the sophomore jinx was lingering.
Has anyone linked this?
https://www.latimes.com/sports/angels/story/2021-06-24/angels-stadium-sale-may-violate-california-law-arte-moreno
“The agreement in which the city of Anaheim sold Angel Stadium and the surrounding parking lots to a company affiliated with Angels owner Arte Moreno “may be in violation” of state law, a state agency has warned the city.
No violation has been determined, and any such violation would not necessarily kill the deal. However, Anaheim could be subject to financial penalties steep enough that the city might make less than $2 for every $10 of fair-market value on the 150-acre property.”
I did on Friday.
Ah sorry, must have missed it. I just saw it elsewhere yesterday. I wonder what would result from this, but these things take forever to resolve.
Yup, did read it and can only say “Only in California”. It’s about the state getting in on the money or they would not have gone to the press.
Obvious trade chips: Raisel Iglesias, Andrew Heaney, Jose Iglesias, Watson, Lagares, Wong
The first two, possibly three could bring back some mediocre prospects. The rest bring back lottery tickets or nothing at all.
Ideally Perry does a MLB piece/OF prospect combo and gets a solid minor league pitching prospect somewhere.
I really feel we should do everything we can to extend Raisel for next season and beyond. As for as duration of contract I would not be opposed to signing him to a 3 year deal at a healthy amount of money.
Since pitching is our biggest need it doesn’t make much sense to trade him for a starter or a reliever. As I have said before you don’t create a new hole in order to fix an existing one. If you can legitimately fill two holes (an existing one, plus replace the player you are trading) then I might consider it. However, I would not trade Raisel for a couple of lottery tickets. The effort should be put into extending him.
That’s a good point. I’d be on board with that.
“Hey, this year isn’t going as planned but we’d like to have you for the future. Here’s a 3 year offer. In full transparency we don’t want to just lose you for nothing so if we can’t work a deal out in the next week or so we will listen to trade offers.”
We need to play these trade chips and do it aggressively. No time to be non-committal.
Rasiel should bring a couple of bidders. His ERA has been coming down but everywhere else, his stats are upper echelon. The Giants, Cards (if they jump back in the race), Dodgers, Nats, Philly, and maybe the Blue Jays might be interested. He would be the top dog closer on the market as far as I can tell. Let’s and work the contenders like when Brad Hand, Andrew Miller and Champan were moved at the deadline. Angels would be extreme fools not to move him. Perry may not get top dollar but let’s get some top 10 prospects or some legit major league talent in the OF. There will be other closers in the off season to sign. I’ll be pissed if he is still on the team in August.
These guys with 1-year deals or last year of contract, they should all move and treated as available. Heaney (WAR 1.3) and Cobb (WAR 1.5) should have some value as a back of rotation arm. Both average over 10Ks per start and less than 3 BB per game. That is good. Work it Perry.
Lagares is not having a good year, He’s useless in a deal in my opinion. He has slowed down considerably. Not many contenders need a shortstop so Jose Iglesias stays. Possibly, resign him for next Winter. But yes, move em all.
No disrespect to you personally Fungo, but F_ this plan !!
This is exactly the kind of thinking I attacked in multiple comments in this very thread when I dissected the language of “Buyer” and “Seller.” F- the Giants, F- the Cards and F- the Dodgers !! We are not giving them our great closer so THEY can get better at our expense ! Raisel currently has the 2nd highest whiff rate of all pitchers in MLB !! That is somebody you need to keep at all costs! When you say “Perry may not get top dollar” that really shows how far off you are of what we need to do. Tell those teams to F off. We are keeping our closer.
We are going to do what it takes to resign him because this team has alot of the pieces to win now, and if it does not happen this year it will happen next year when we add a good starter. We have peak Ohtani and near peak Trout (probably just below peak, but still a Top Three player in the game). With Raisel onboard we are one step closer to winning next year. I am NOT trading him for a couple of “prospects” who as we know in MLB are crapshoots unless they are a sure thing like Vlad Jr or Tatis Jr and nobody is giving you that guy for a closer.
I say a hard NO. WE WILL KEEP RAISEL.
Theres a new beat writer for the Angels at The Athletic named Sam Blum, seems to have been highly traveled. Time will tell if he sticks. I told him he has 2 months to convince me to renew my subscription.
Hmmm, sure his name is not Sutton?
Brewers got him for a song & dance. 😫 😥 💩
It would be nice if you attached names. Kinda pointless without. Maybe pointless with – so apparently someone picked up a player that did well. You win some, you lose some.
He does this all the time, to point out how awful the Halos are.
Like we are dumb. He should be telling Arte and Co about these guys
Yeah
Learn how to use the search image on your browser. You don’t have to be able to bench press 500LB’s to do so!
So the 28 year old J.P. Feyereisen with his 2.06 ERA and 1.05 WHIP is the Song and the 25 year old Drew Rasmussen with his 0.00 ERA and .818 WHIP since joining the Rays is the Dance?
Gotcha.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g4bftQ4xxFc
Yah J.P. Feyereisen he’s 28 and was still in the minors.
Adames was moved to make room for Wander Franco MLB’s top rated prospect.
BTW Adames is only 25 and making the MLB minimum. I thought Arte was supposed to be a penny pincher? Ironic…..
I reced you too!
Is it possible anyone would accept RenDone’s contract? That would be my top priority, as it would give us more free agent flexibility.
Maybe if he gets his paperwork taken care of by the guys who took care of Al’s.
0 chance
Good thing Arte wanted Rendon instead of Zack Wheeler. That one single move is the difference between us being competitive and not. Oh, and Zack was $100 million cheaper.
Wheeler seemed heavily overrated that offseason. Glad for free agency in general that he’s doing well, but I would have squinted a little had we signed him
H.T. Ennis makes a good point. At the time, Wheeler looked overpriced and Rendon seemed like a good deal.
But still, ouch.
At the money Rendon was signed for he never looked like a good deal, imho.
Maybe good was the wrong word. I don’t remember may exact feelings about the Rendon signing at the time, but there was at least some skepticism.
Let me instead say, if they were houses and I was looking at the recent sales, for Rendon I would have said the house sold for what I expected (although not necessarily the price I would have paid) whereas for Wheeler I would have said “wow, the house sold for that much?”
Honestly, memories seem short around here. Both the Upton signing and the Rendon signing solved/were meant to solve huge, consistent, long-term problems for the team. Over the lifetime of their deals, they have been a net positive on the field, even if costing some of Arte’s money – but that means we could have prospects/revolving doors at other positions and not be completely in the tank.
This 100%
After we didn’t get Cole the Rendon signing seemed like a deal compared to the money Cole got
The Arte of the deal.
Moreno tossed a number Tony’s way that he could not refuse. That was the deal
The reasoning for this deal was. Arte had a budget with so much money to spend, he doesn’t like to lose at business, so just shoved a number at Tony that Tony could not refuse. The Arte of the deal.
He was my pick in the Eppler series. He didn’t look to be a true ace but he would’ve been our ace.
And now he’s actually a true ace.
Yes, obviously it worked out.
Free agents in that price range in that offseason included Stephen Strasburg, Madison Bumgarner, and Hyun-jin Ryu.
I get that we love to clamor to pay for pitching, and we do need to at the moment. I just don’t think paying for pitching is conducive to success. Rendon should be a good player for the contract, if not worth the money.
According to Billy’s own words Zach no likey the West coast . His Pregnant wife would not leave the eastern seaboard. And you know what they say about Mama.
The Angels contingent ( including Billy, Carpino et al.) was told that in their face to face meeting when they visited Zach’s home.
This was all done prior to the Rendon’s offer and signing. If you recall Wheeler signed days before the Rendon sweepstakes so i do not believe the Rendon vs Wheeler argument was ever binary.
Ah. All good points.
Some other team picks up Tony and thus craters their financial flexibility? Unlikely. The only way this happens is if Arte eats a sizable chuck of the contract….which is unlikely.
Tony will perform better – he’s not this bad.
voting for phase 2 of all starts starts today. if you get the chance, vote!
https://www.mlb.com/all-star
I looked back at the 2010 All Star Game in Anaheim (first ASG I went to) and was surprised to see a few names on there and made me wonder who I’ll get to see this year that will have me scratching my head in a decade. Should be a few surprises with some unfortunate injuries.
9am we can start voting. Winkler and Castellanos the one two punch from the Reds show up. Frazier playing 2b from the Pirates and Mullins from Balt. are good underdog picks too.
AL: Vlad, Semien, Devers, Bogaerts, Perez, Trout, Judge, Buxton, Shohei
NL: Freeman, Albies, Bryant, Tatis, Posey, Acuna, Winkler, Castellanos
Just went with what I wanted to see. Hopefully I’m surprised by what the fans choose.
For this Ol’ Bones
NL Freeman, Fraizer, Tatis, Arenado, Acuna, Castellanos, Winkler, Posey.
AL Vlad, Semien, Devers, Bichette, Mullins, Hernandez, Judge, Perez, Ohtani.
You know what I absolutely hate? It is the ritual every damn summer of mostly corporate media asking the question of which MLB teams are “buying” and which are “selling.”
There are many, many reasons I hate this language and feel it is incredibly stupid. Number one, it is an artificial and slightly veiled attempt to force “average” or struggling or even bad teams into giving up. The language of “selling” is packed with a priori assumptions and implies a certain course of action that tends to make the average and poor teams worse while strengthening the above-average or strong teams. It is a way to perpetuate the status quo and sabotage lesser teams from improving.
The unspoken assumption is that a team like Kansas City or Minnesota or Cincinnati or even us will (usually the small market teams) give-away their talent (typically vets on expiring contracts, but sometimes it is guys still under contract for a couple of years that are quite valuable, like a good relief pitcher or left-handed hitting OF’er with a power bat etc) for very little in return. Usually a big-market team like the Yankees, Red Sox, Dodgers etc is the beneficiary of this “selling” which in reality is “giving.”
The mainstream media pushes this narrative in an attempt to strip away talent from lesser teams and give it to one of the aforementioned big boys. What they want is the rich to get richer. This is not unlike tax breaks for the rich, or corporate wellfare.
So, the next time somebody wants to call the Angels “sellers” I will inevitably go tell them to fuck themselves (June) and say “you will not make your team better at my expense.” This last piece is important to add to the FU since almost always (as stated) the talent rich team that is trying to get even stronger is offering what amounts to pennies for the valuable bullpen piece, up and coming utility infielder or LH power bat off the bench.
In summary, don’t fall into the trap of thinking that you have to choose either being a “buyer” or “seller.” This is a false dichotomy. Remember, you can be both a buyer and a seller, or you can be neither by simply standing pat!
Don’t bend over for them !!
its like how the actual lottery is a tax on poor(er) people
If you want to stay poor keep buying three things: alcohol, cigarettes, lottery tickets.
Oh. I thought you were going to say Angel Tickets
OK, keep on buying FOUR things…
Along with fear, surprise, ruthless efficiency, and an almost fanatical devotion to the Pope.
Amonst the things to buy are alcohol, cigarettes, lottery tickets, Angels tickets, fear suprise, ruthless efficiency, an almost fanatical devotion to the Pope, and nice red uniforms.
Appreciate your point of view, but I don’t agree. This is not about the rich getting richer at the expense of the poor. I think the rich/poor narrative is overstated in your post. All teams are ‘rich’ in MLB. There are no poor owners. This is a billionaires club.
The yearly exercise is more about (in my opinion) opportunity to ‘sell’ players who are performing well and may be the missing piece or pieces for a playoff bound club in exchange for prospects that can improve an all-but-eliminated club’s future chances. Certain teams are focused on building up their farm while other teams are focused on winning it all now. That’s the interplay. And smart baseball operations folks can take advantage of other club’s particular needs.
Sometimes small market clubs (ie the ‘poorer’ teams in your example) are the ones who are buying. An example is the Oakland A’s who a few years back traded a number of prospects to obtain starting pitchers such as Samardzjia. Sometimes the selling team is the winner as they trade a player for a cartload of young talent to fill future needs.
I am a fan of this yearly ritual and wish the Angels would participate in it more actively as sellers to build the club’s pitching foundation for the future. The idea is to sell high – the problem is it has to be a player with value to get another team to (1) want the player and (2) give up good prospects for him.
The more interesting question is who do the Angels have that fits the bill on either side of the analysis? As buyers the team has a few prospects of interest such as Adell, Marsh, CRod and Adams but nothing that is super tantalizing. It’s the same on the sell side except for Ohtani, Walsh and Fletch. No team is going to offer up a bunch of prospects for Upton, Bundy, Rendon or the other players who are viewed by the fan base as expendable. The Angels are stuck in the middle as neither clear buyers or clear sellers unless a decision is made to truly rebuild.
In short, this is not about rich or poorer. This is about opportunity in only rich owner’s world related to trying to win now or build for the future.
Disagree. While you are correct in saying that all owners are “rich,” there are degrees to this… There is wealth and then there is super wealth. But really my point was not about the wealth of the individual owners (though of course someone like Steve Ballmer in the NBA is alot richer than pretty much any other owner) but more about the TEAMS.
There are favored teams and there are the doormats. I am claiming that MLB baseball and to a larger extent the corporate media and corporate power structure in America has a stake in keeping the Yankees, Dodgers and Red Sox strong, while keeping the little guys down. In essence, pro sports is a microcosm of society at large. Thus, I use the analogy of the rich getting richer etc.
One may claim that the League benefits most by having parity and keeping the small markets competitive. I don’t believe this. It ultimately comes down to TV and the huge money to be made there. It is the reason that we constantly see the Cubs, Yankees, Red Sox and Dodgers on ESPN Sunday Night Baseball and never see the Twins, Orioles, Tigers etc.. By keeping the Yankees strong MLB insures that they will continue to draw high ratings and keep the TV money pouring in.
As for the opportunities that are ostensibly available by making mid-season trades, I argue that what you detail doesn’t usually take place. The trades we do end up seeing usually help the Big Boys more than the “seller.” Just ask yourself how often the Big Boys play the role of “seller.”? It does not happen very often, even when they are having a poor season (relatively speaking). Yeah, you will sometimes see these guys dump an expiring contract, but what happens more often than not is that those teams get a Tommy La Stella type of guy and the seller gets back Franklin Barreto in return, (yes, I am aware that in that example the A’s were not a big-market, “Big Boy” team.This is just what came to mind to show the inequity of these trades),.lmao.
Boston Red Sox recently after winning the 2018 World Series.
Their entire starting outfield ( Betts, Bradley jr, Bentendi, plus Craig Kimbrell, David Price, and World Series hero Steve Pierce, all gone. ).
Houston Astros let George Springer and former 2015 AL Cy Young Award winner Dallas Keichel walk.
Astros are still very strong. They could afford to let Springer walk since they have alot of young OF talent that just arrived, including Straw and especially Yordan Alvarez and Kyle Tucker. Not sure I would count them as a Big Market team, but they are very close, as Texas is a Top Tier TV market.
The Red Sox to some might seem to be embarking on what looks like a rebuild course. However, they do still have JD Martinez, Bogaerts and Devers in their starting lineup. All three of those dudes are All-Star caliber players. I notice they have not traded any of those three guys away. They did also make a strong move to keep Eovaldi (and succeeded!) Not to mention the fact that they are 47-31 and in First Place in the AL East ! Sure looks like they are trying to win to me !!!
Because Houston is the second biggest city west of the Mississippi River after Los Angeles and has supplanted Chicago as the third largest city in the USA.
I was speaking strictly about TV ratings. But yeah, I acknowledged that Houston/Texas is a big market.
JD Martinez is in his mid thirties and can still DH.
Doesn’t matter; he’s still a very productive player. The Red Sox are not “rebuilding.”
The Angels are a ‘big boy’ team and have been involved both as a buyer and seller depending on success in the first half.
If you are suggesting that the Red Sox, Yankees and Dodgers are the teams that are the buyers and everyone else basically sells to them – I fully disagree.
Every team has the same goal – win the World Series. How they get there depends on ownership. They all can afford the most expensive players, it’s whether they want to run their business that way that matters. Some owners want to do it on the cheap – others will spend, spend, spend. The disparity in wealth between the teams is not as great as the narrative.
Some extremely wealthy folks drive a Prius, others drive Rolls Royce or Ferrari or Bugatti. Both can afford the most expensive vehicles but approach it differently depending on their own personal experiences. It’s no different in baseball. All of these guys are extraordinarily rich and can afford giant payrolls. It’s a matter of choice as to whether they run their business that way.
You can say that “all teams have the same goal” but for many their actions would belie that statement. From all outside appearances the Pirates don’t appear to be making a genuine effort to win the World Series. Anyone who is not a total idiot knows you cannot possibly win the World Series fielding a team made up entirely of team controlled and arbitration eligible players.
You WILL need at least a couple vets and FA’s. The Pirates never had any serious intention of keeping either Gerrit Cole or Andrew McCutchen. They would have been close to WS contention but showed their true colors. Like Spy says, alot of owners are in it for a) the profit and b) to have their team as their expensive “toy” to play with.
I agree that some owners care way more about profit than winning but that is a billionaire’s choice not an example of the disparity between rich and poor in society (as you seemed to suggest in your first post).
What I was suggesting is that the disparity of talent and opportunities between the Yankees, Red Sox, Cubs and Dodgers is very similar to the way the economic system in American is rigged against the poor and in favor of the rich.
How often do you see a team like the Royals win it all? It happens like once every 20 years, lol.
You are right about the Pirates not trying nearly as hard as they could.
I suppose you are also technically right that you can’t win the World Series with nothing but team-controlled and arbitration eligible players, mostly because I don’t think it is really possible to fill a 25-man roster without some free agents.
However, it is possible (although not common) to win the WS on a low payroll. As evidence I submit:
’87 Twins (23rd of 26 in payroll)
’90 Reds (20th of 26 in payroll)
’02 Angels (15th in payroll)
’03 Marlins (25th in payroll)
’15 Royals (17th in payroll)
The Astros almost did it in 2017, but had to cheat.
I would not include us since we were not really “low.” We were right in the middle of the pack. If I include the others that would mean it happened 4 times total in 34 years! That is about one time every 10 years, which is not alot, lol.
It’s definitely not a lot, but “very difficult to do” is definitely different than “anyone who is not a total idiot knows you cannot possibly” do it.
I’m sure you could also add a few more examples if you look at WS runner-ups.
BTW Tampa Bay & Oakland says high every year that they knock on door.
I think Its not a matter of if but more of a matter of when for those 2 teams
Tampa Bay has still never won the World Series.
And the A’s have not even gotten there since they disbanded their Super Team with Ricky Henderson, Jose Canseco, Mark MCGwire, Dennis Eckersley and Dave Stewart.
They compete, though, and likely because of good scouting and coaching.
True. They are competitive. But for me personally (I realize that others might be happy with this) I would not want my team making it to the playoffs each year and then time after time after time getting knocked out and losing.
That is a different kind of failure, but it is still failure of a sort.
I kind of feel like the Rays and A’s support JackFrost’s argument. They are examples of teams doing the best they can with home-grown players who always fall just a little short.
If the Rays or A’s added a couple of costly acquisitions at the trade deadline in one of their better years, maybe they would actually have a shot.
MLB is only hastening its demise if it continues to allow this kind of talk by the media. It cannot function for much longer with only 7 or 8 good teams.
Well, I think it can continue to function. It has survived with this model for quite some time. Not having a salary cap is the backbone of this kind of system. Look how many times in the past the Yankees have shot over the cap to sign a big-name, high-ticket FA.
Basically, it survives because the middling or lesser teams are complicit with the arrangement, either consciously or unconsciously. By accepting the “buyer/seller” false dichotomy the average and lesser teams are contributing to the perpetuation of this system, whether they know it or not.
Some of those go over the threshold pickups the Yankees or Dodgers, and sometimes another team, are done to help the League. Remember, MLB is one organization just made into little pieces to have a reason.
There is no way the owners would let a team drown in debt because of a player’s contract. This not how things work.
Now that the city’s and States will mostly not help out the teams, they have to help out each other until negotiations change in the owner’s favor. Let’s watch OAKs try at finding a new home.
It is one big game, gamed to the ones that game the most. Just don’t lose your own money is the only rule.
MLB would have a gold mine if it had about 20 to 25 good teams. Attendance would be through the roof. Fans would be much more interested.
It does, and it does continue to.
Go get’um Arte.
I don’t like it because it equates people as property.
But the whole gist of it would be that a team involved in any deal would be trying to improve their chances of winning the World Series. Isn’t that what we are all here for?
The reality is, most of the owners are just in it to impress their friends, and make some cash in their prime investment. Very few teams are actually trying to build a dynasty, much less a winning team. The cost of a winning team is too damn high when you are trying to no lose any of your money.
Just remember the bottom line, your feelings towards the teams you support are most likely under it.
I’d like to see some analysis to support your premise that the “sellers” are “giving-away talent.”
Here’s an article about the 25 best mid-season trades, around 10 of which are on the list because the sellers got great deals, not the buyers. And if I counted correctly, this list of the 10 most one-sided mid-season deals includes 7 that favor the sellers.
One of the trades mentioned in that article is the Gleyber Torres trade. On the surface that seemed and seems like a pretty even trade. I don’t think either team “got one over” on the other. Of course, both the teams involved were “Big Boys” so it is not the dynamic I was referencing which was middling or lesser teams trading with the Big Boys.
The interesting thing about that Torres trade for Chapman was that even though the Cubs went on to win the World Series with Chapman as a key component, it was the Yankees who got the very same player back that they traded away !!
This is actually a perfect example of a rigged system !! In short, the Yankees got Gleyber Torres for essentially a one year rental of Chapman ! The MLB favored “Big Boy” Yankees actually ultimately made out like bandits on this !!!
First of all, the 2016 Cubs (6th in payroll and Chicago’s favorite team) really in your list of “poor” teams that got run over by the media?
Second, you’ve already departed from one of your points. If the Yankees win as buyers and they win as sellers, then it isn’t the buyer/seller language that is the problem.
Finally, if you abandon the buyer/seller dichotomy and switch to big v. small market mid-season trades, try not to ignore the other trades. Like Seattle (get prospect Buhner) v. Yankees, Astros (get prospect Bagwell) v. Red Sox, D-backs (buy Schilling cheap) v. Phillies, Orioles (get prospect Schilling) v. Red Sox, Seattle (buy Moyer cheap) v. Red Sox, Reds (get prospect Konerko) v. Dodgers, Rangers (get 4 good prospects) v. Braves, …
I never said the Cubs were a “poor” team. I in fact would include the Cubs as one of the “Big Boys” primarily for being in Chicago (huge market) and also for being a legacy franchise.
You’re right. You absolutely admitted the Cubs are one of the Big Boys and I completely overlooked that. Sorry. I retract point #1.
If you have an asset that is providing you little value now why not flip it for an asset that might provide you significant value later? That’s the point of selling.
The goal of an MLB team is to accumulate as much talent as possible. But that talent needs to be in place during a competitive window. Holding onto Raisel Iglesias this year improves a non playoff team by a couple of games. But the AA pitching prospect we would receive could be a significant boon 2-3 years from now on a team that is actually competitive.
What you are missing is that the “rich” teams are also selling. They are selling pieces of their future in order to win now. The top teams standing pat might cost them the opportunity to win. Opportunity cost is a very real thing.
This is far more complex than the “rich man bad” over simplification. This is more about when a team wants to compete, not if a team wants to compete.
I do not think I presented a “simplistic” “rich man bad” argument. Far from it.
I feel I initiated a pretty complex and nuanced sociological discussion. I would never claim that I was the first person to view sports as a microcosm of society at large. But I do think it is a valid and supportable view. Sports in general plays a big role in a culture, and it goes well beyond Juvenal’s “Bread and Circuses” story.
Further, I don’t deny that the Big Boys DO sometimes sell. I acknowledged as much. But I think you’d find if you looked at the numbers that they are “Buyers” much more frequently than they are “Sellers.”
A lot of what I am taking about here is semantics, politics, language and social engineering. I am very interested in the topic of the MSM as “gatekeepers” and this line of thinking has definitely informed my argument. It is not just about the nuts and bolts of sports.
If one is not aware of Gramsci (mainly the idea that “cultural hegemony” is used to maintain consent to the capitalist order) or read Foucault or any number of other social theorists it is difficult to engage in a discussion on this level…
The economic makeup of the game generally keeps the buyers and sellers the same. I get your point that the media expects KC to be a seller each year, but the fact they face a huge economic disadvantage is what creates that, not the MSM.
MLB needs to decide if it wants to be a handful of elites with the occasional disrupter or a truly meritocratic system more akin to the NFL.
Now this is where the MSM is to blame to a degree, IMO. The ESPNs and Foxes of the world currently televise a disproportionate amount of Yanks, Cubs, Dodgers games to national audiences. Bringing those behemoths down a notch or two so the KC’s and Seattles of the world can compete evenly scares them.
MLB and the networks look at the short term ratings picture and take the short money while missing out on the larger picture.
The MLB needs to accommodate the Angels by issuing a variance to allow two designated hitters per game: one for the pitcher and one for any other player as selected by the team. In this way, both Ohtani and Ward can be designated hitters. Ward does not belong anywhere near the outfield.
Can he catch?
with them feet?
2015 MLB Draft Review:
26) Los Angeles Angels: Taylor Ward, C, Fresno State University: Junior right-handed hitter, batted .304/.413/.486 this year, impressive with the glove and has some power although some worry about the bat at higher levels; won’t hit for much of an average but should have some pop. Defense is considered excellent and many viewed him as the top college catcher, but this is about 30 or 40 picks sooner than expected.
I never understood why he flamed out so fast as a catcher.
Pretty evident our minor league development sucks.
Thaiss was converted from catcher because his bat was so advanced; a half dozen swing changes later and he’s still not an MLB regular.
Ward was converted from catcher so his bat could advance.
Jahmai Jones was given multiple swing changes each season yet broke out in the AFL when he wasn’t near our coaches. Kid is hitting over .300 this year in Baltimore’s system with an OBP north of .400.
Those are just three examples off the top of my head.
Sell Rendon, ward and Bundy.
Who’s buying?
This is a great point. You can only sell something other people want.
That would be Ohtani.
There is alot on this team other people would want, including Walsh, Stassi, Fletcher, Sandoval, etc.. Just because somebody wants something you have does not mean you have to give it to them !!
We don’t have anything behind them. You always need a foundation before building that wall.
Exactly. If the price is right I can see moving any or all of them. But those would be major returns for the most part.
As much as I like Fletcher, the middle infield market is saturated next year. If he fetched a mid rotation arm for the next 3 years I’d have to consider it.
I get the idea of improving the pitching, however, I look at Fletch as bringing so much more to the table than his WAR would suggest. His intangibles are off the chart. I just don’t think you will be able to replace on the open market what he brings. There are other ways to acquire a middle of the rotation starter rather than giving up a cornerstone guy of the franchise.
Personally, I would not trade Fletcher for a number three starter. But as stated I do understand your thinking.
It would absolutely kill me. His dad and I are still in good contact. I’m sure that would still be the case, but when you have pics of a player hanging out with your 2 year old son, it forms a bond.
The only player we could break even on.
I don’t think you could really break-even on Ohtani. He is waaay too valuable based not just upon his skill set but also on what he is making. If you received a basketfull of prospects what are the odds that even one of them becomes half the player Ohtani is? Not good.
Shohei is cheap, so we could at least get some comparison talent for him.
The rest of the team are either finished, not there yet, or too expensive to trade.
The Angels should think of front-loading contracts. That way some of the older, performing, talent can be moved to a better opportunity. It will be a while until we visit the post-season.
Your last sentence: I don’t necessarily agree. We could have gotten there this year with one smart SP acquisition from Perry and better luck with injuries.
And there is no reason we can’t be there next season. Alot of people on this site are not accurately assessing the amount of talent we have. Now granted, most of that talent is on the offensive side. But we do have some encouraging signs from young pitchers like Sandoval and Suarez.
We could be competitive right now if you look at what other teams are winning with. All of you guys who are saying “we are years away” etc are waaay off the mark. Look at who is winnning. The Mets offense has been horrible. The Giants, well, it is just astonishing that this team bereft of talent can have the best record in MLB !! But what it shows you is that it is not simply about talent. It is about putting it all together and especially execution. It is about attention to detail and playing solid, fundamentally strong baseball. All that said, I would rather have the talent than not have it. And trading away Ohtani or anyone else will not improve team execution.
In short, there is no reason we could not have the same record as the Giants. God knows we’ve got a hell of a lot more talent then they do !
The Mariners are also winning with smoke and mirrors. They have literally nothing. Haniger is a good player but even he is not having his best year. And yet they still win.
If you have a once in a lifetime player like Ohtani you do not trade him. Plain and simple. There is a simple rule in pro sports when it comes to trades : the team receiving the best player always wins the trade.
Does anyone remember who the Bucks got back when they traded Kareem to the Lakers?