Billy Eppler Perry Minasian is once again talking to his favorite dance partner, this time to trade for yet another back end of the rotation pitcher (berp).
This berp happens to be Alex Cobb who debuted against the Angels in 2011, has pitched for Joe Maddon, and has had a pretty underwhelming past 3 seasons, including hip issues in 2019. Cobb does have an impressive splitter which can be useful when leveraged right, but it’s hard to have too high of a ceiling as a one trick pony.
The Angels are hoping Cobb can be durable in the rotation, despite having made just 13 starts with undesirable performance across the last two seasons. It appears the outlay will be less than $7.5mm.
Going to Baltimore is longtime Angels farmhand Jahmai Jones.
Converted to infield several season ago, Jones was blocked at second base by Angels regulars in David Fletcher and Luis Rengifo.
Time will tell how this one plays out, but it seems curious that the Angels rounded out the rotation with yet another back-end pitcher instead of signing James Paxton or Jake Odorizzi on the free agent market.
My take on this trade is slightly different. PTP knows he still has holes to fill in the bullpen, possible SP depth & right field. Arte has more recently focused on an annual payroll budget than the CBT thresh hold. Also maybe the way Arte sets the budget deferred salaries are not counted against the current salary amount but in the the future season they are to be paid out. So in a budget lens this deal is viewed to be closer to $3 million payroll addition for 2021 than the $5 million now being reported. I sense that starting pitching amounts haven’t declined as much as other positions in this offseason, so PTP probably felt he had to make this move versus burning alot more of his budget on other available more costly starting pitchers.
The deal has now been consummated. Yuck.
As someone who railed on our losing under Eppler, but I always seemed to like his moves, I hope Perry is smarter than the rest of us!
We pay $5mil which is less than we thought.
Also do we still make this trade knowing we may not have Mickey as Pitching Coach?
Man I hope they are out there looking for a guy to replace Mickey right now…. and a guy to replace Carpino.
I have no idea who’s out there available to coach pitchers. My best idea is maybe not letting Maddon do all the picking.
I heard Doug White is available.
I heard Charles Nagy is to.
Yet still 3.5 to 4 million too much.
Unless Detmers, Rodriguez, and/or Kochanowicz can come onto the scene and contribute, this rotation just lacks the upside. Bundy, Heaney, Canning, and Quintana all seem like they can be solid, but why not try and get an arm with more upside like Paxton? Seems like Cobb’s ceiling is league-average or just below average.
The move is not exciting at all but if nothing else I’m curious how the volume of pitchers gets sorted out.
Not the O I thought they’d get… joked they should trade for Chris Davis the other day.
The Callaway allegations are out on MLBTraderumors. If it in fact was the “worst kept secret” that Callaway had issues such as what is detailed, the hiring screening process should have identified it. The fact he was hired reflects poorly on the franchise.
Yaaayyyyyy! Dick pix!!!
In Las Vegas, Angels right now are 40-1 to win the WS. Once it gets to 75-1, I’m in. Need two more Cobb-like acquisitions, then I’m down for a Benjamin to invest.
in 2002 I had the Halo’s at 100-1, placed a bet with an off-shore book. Come to papa! I love my team, go Halo’s! Arte, how is Carole doing?
Now THATS enthusiasm. Can you SQUEEEEZE your team into a Championship?
The Cubs are 35-1?
The Cubs aren’t winning it again.
I got a future ticket in Vegas from the Bellagio sports book.
Only wish I had bet more; I only put $25.00 down.
Do we have the money to still buy on the relief market? Colume? Soria?
Both Eppler and Perry come from big baseball Organizations which had success because of the baseball operations checks- and-balances. Before a potential trade was brought to Cashman or Anthopoulos there would have been a lot the functional equivalent of Eppler and Minasian giving their input and opinion.
I can’t help thinking would Anthopoulos have made this trade or even been interested in it? While we cannot know for sure, my gut tells me “no way”.
Both Minasian and Eppler had the benefit of an Organization of baseball people in their prior jobs. They don’t have that here. And I think it shows.
AA went after Smiley. Eleven-million-dollar-bucca-roos!
That was a frowney.
I also think there’s a good chance that Arte is playing a bigger role than many of us realize. There’s been pretty consistent reporting on his meddling and a basic operating principle that I think that most GMs in Anaheim don’t get the full reigns.
That’s actually what has me flummoxed. This doesn’t even look like an Arte move. Did it save money? Nope. Did it ensure several thousand Alex Cobb fans show up to the games? Nope. Why the hell would Arte be like, “Brett Anderson? Uh uh. Go talk to the O’s about trading for that Cobb guy, I like the cut of his jib.”
Arte was advised but since he likes Joe and Minasian at this point he told them OK. But Arte did not start the deal.
Feels more like Maddon influence than Arte tbh.
What makes me nervous about this, and this idea is totally just out my ass, but does this move say something about our FA courting of late? See, I am fairly certain that the Angels have engaged with at least some of the FAs like Paxton, Happ, Oderizzi, Gaussman, Tanaka, Walker, etc etc. I’m pretty sure Manasion isn’t letting a difference of 2M keep him from signing one of these guys, none of them are after a Cole/Bauer overpay. I’ve mentioned it before, but no one is falling all over themselves to play in LA, even with the Dodgers. Gaussman, Wood and Desclafini went to the Giants, so there’s that at least. The Padres traded for all their pitchers. We got Quintana.
We bitch about Arte, but it’s not like, to a player or agent, Arte’s any worse than the Giants suit pile, or the Padres mix…. then there’s the A’s. I have no rational reason to think so, but what if we had to trade for Cobb because so many prospective signings just said “I don’t really want to play out there, not unless it’s the Dodgers and they over pay me.” That would suck.
Or maybe all these guys look at CTPG and say “F*** those wankers.”. Though guys do still sign with the Red Sox and Yankees…. so we’re probably all right. But man it would suck if trading for Cobb, or overpaying in a trade for a guy a little better, was our only real option because parties on the other end of the FA pipeline just don’t want to be out here.
It Must be that Atre is Cheap!
Sorry friend, Gene Atre has gone to the Great Rodeo in the Sky.
There could be some of that, but then again there’s a disproportionate amount of MLB players from CA. Yeah, I tried to talk my wife into leaving but I’m an average guy and the taxes/fees/pain in the ass takes a much bigger bite out of me. Ultimately we stayed because you can’t put a price on your son hanging out with his grandparents whenever he wants.
I’d think a guy like Justin Wilson, born in Anaheim, might think the same. After making millions, what’s losing an extra 5% or so on a last contract to play in front of family and friends?
I thought it would help with Tanaka. I have no idea how hard they even tried.
I do know if I was from outside the area and thought OC was LA, like most of the country, I’d be hesitant.
That’s what i have thought too. Plenty of Californians in the MLB and it’s a great place to live if you have the money to avoid the lower class scum that only makes 60K a year. I’m almost certain players come out here and like the weather, women, etc. So WTF? My fear is that it’s agents, business managers, etc. Everything from taxes, to paying for a school that won’t leave your kids illiterate, to gas prices, car registration, your wife starting a small business…. all of it is harder here. I am just getting more afraid there are a whole bunch of business managers and agents out there with pitch decks entitled “Your Best Bet: Anywhere but California.” that all of these guys are watching.
I doubt it. The Dodgers and Padres don’t seem to be affected by this problem lately, or the Giants a few years back, or us a little before that. At some point the front number on your bank account doesn’t matter much as long as the balance stays in the 8-9+ figure range. And the few people at that level who do raise a big stink about it and leave (eg: Musk, Rogan) tend to do it more for protest and self-promotion rather than any actual lifestyle or business impact.
Really? Which FAs have signed with the Doyers and Padres of late? Machado….. Hosmer….. Betts (the Doyers were the only team that could pay him that hadn’t traded him or paid Cole/Stanton). We signed Rendon and Trout…. the last say three years (when Ihave started noticing this) who has signed out here? Not been traded for, signed? 5 teams in what are supposed to be in pretty awesome markets. I’m not saying it’s liberalism, guys still wind up in New York, Philly, Chicago etc. But for some reason it seems like a lot of players are sliding east.
I was thinking further back, last decade or so. And I think you have to count extensions too because those would presumably be discouraged. Off the top of my head: Myers, Weaver, Upton (technically we added a year), Pujols, Hamilton, Wilson, Lincecum, Posey, Kershaw, Kim. Maybe soon Tatis or Bauer.
I think part of the explanation is only the Dodgers and to some extent the Giants have the reputation of a winning franchise culture AND deep pockets with competent staff and ownership. We occasionally crack the mold, but are usually bitten by the latter. The A’s have the culture and FO but not the money. The Padres seemed to lack all three until the last couple seasons.
We may actually be heading into a golden era of California baseball if the Angels and Giants can step it up a bit. If the money and opportunity to win are similar to other destinations, I would think the climate and other amenities seal the deal most of the time.
What’s 5% on a last contract to play in front of family and friends?
Probably more than enough to fly your family and friends out to watch every game they want to and have a bunch left over.
I went back and counted… do we really need a 7 man rotation?
SP Bundy 160
SP Heaney 160
SP Quintana 160
SP Canning 140
SP Cobb 120
SP Ohtani 100
These are my innings estimates based in their track record. This assumes some missing time due to injury. We probably need one more guy tbh. This is like 100 innings short and this assumes Cobb and Ohtani are healthy, plus Canning can actually pitch a full season.
Barria, Sandoval, Suarez, Detmers, Naughten….
Sandoval and Suarez were rushed. Suarez has been horrendous, Sandoval needs consistency. They can’t afford to rush Detmers who is still working on another pitch before he can fool major leaguers. Naughton was Epplers light tossing junk baller. I’m ok letting them develop in AAA. I’m ok with Perry trying to rework our MILB system since Eppler did so much damage to it with rushed promotions to save his job like Suarez and Adell. There are better dumpster diving pitchers than Cobb though. I think you’re right. I don’t think pitchers are looking to risk their career with our organization. We joke about it, but they see it too.
I thought we drafted Detmers because he was the most MLB ready of the pitching prospects, even though he was perceived to have a lower upside than other prospects who were drafted after him. Now I read he is not that close to being MLB ready. It’s discouraging how badly we play things, the draft included.
Lack of a year in the minors, and likely less than complete Spring Training (and even that will less minor league invites) pushes everyone’s development back, no?
(Also, we don’t have a pitching coach to let us know how he is doing anyway).
Learning a new pitch is not the same as being a long way off from the MLB roster…. though he’s also pretty far down the depth chart. We will probably see him in the second half of this season.
Traded with Marsh and Your Name Here for Marquez.
Multi inning relievers. Barria is out of options, he’s making the Opening Day squad. Pena can go 2 innings, maybe three. Sandoval has options and can bounce up and down as needed. Minasian just signed Guerra to a minors deal as depth.
Heaney at 160 is pretty optimistic.
Fangraphs gives Heaney 168 and Canning 138. Ohtani 100. I agree that I don’t trust our glass pitching rotation to meet that. Plus 80 to Sandoval, but perhaps AAA bound. That’s why I kind of think they need 7 starters
If you’re asking if the Angels need 7 starting pitchers for a season, you haven’t watched much Angels baseball of late.
Are people really pegging Ohtani to start a meaningful amount of games? That would be great obviously if he did but I think the 2 much more likely outcomes (sadly) are that he 1.) gets hurt and cant pitch, or 2.) Is not effective at getting deep into games without giving up too many runs.
We had 10 pitchers start last (shortened) season. 8 of whom are still on the roster. (Just Teheran and Andriese have left).
Heaney, Bundy, Canning, Sandoval, Barria, Suarez, Ohtani, Peters.
I am much happier if Quintana and Cobb are taking the starts that Suarez, Peters, and Teheran had (14 of 60 starts).
Still hoping we aren’t done here, and either add a 2nd tier starter, or good piece to the pen.
Having seven bodies is different than having seven major league contributing pitchers. I wonder how many of our pitchers would occupy starting spots on World Series level teams in important play-off games.
Well, given that even the Rays last March probably couldn’t answer this question and put a smile on your face, while the Nats could, I’d have to say the number is who gives a shit.
If the Angels are punting this season, then so am I. Go Padres!
Nothin wrong with enjoying a team that’s gonna try and take it to Los Doyers
We can still get Chris Archer. Why didn’t we sign Matt Moore?
I’m gonna go out on a limb here and asert that Minasian doesn’t know anything about advanced stats – or care.
He thought he was ordering a Cobb Salad. An expensive one.
He thought he was getting Ty Cobb. He’d read Brent’s piece and knew we needed an outfielder
The plaque of Ty Cobb in the HOF may be worth more WAR, sadly.
Now that we have Alice Cobb we will certainly lose 1000 games this year while Mike Trout dies of rapid onset old age all because the guy from the Blue Jays/Braves doesn’t know or care about advanced stats.
It’s a lame assed trade. Hell, it’s so lame I can’t even figure out how to blame Arte for it since it would have been cheaper in both cash and prospects to just let Barria have the same stats as Cobb. So not really an “Arte” move. Not a move that fits what Manasian was doing up to this point. It’s confusing, but really it’s not the end of the world either, if this move sinks an otherwise play off bound team I will be very surprised.
Maybe Manasian’s cat stepped on the keyboard and POOF! trade submitted?
The cat wanted to short GameStop. Shorted us instead.
This remind me of when I accidentally drafted Bishop Sankey in fantasy football.
Why do we always do this?? Seriously. This is so damm frustrating. new GM same ol pipe dream pitching acquisitions where we need a miracle for it to break right. Cobb is almost 4 seasons removed from being useful. AND we give up Jam Jones?? lol
Yeah, you know, if your team has one CHEAP
reclamation project then it is not so bad.
But if your GM is trying to build a starting rotation on these kind of guys it is just a recipe for disaster; we know this from Billy getting Harvey, Tehran, and BP Cody Allen, etc
It is just so sad.
Sad is the perfect word man. Such a hopeless feeling.
I hope we are all made to eat crow and all these dudes turn into Bundy’s.
Why would we want them all to sit on a couch with their hand in their pants?
Where is the gain in this for the Angels? It seems like this is the kind of salary dump deal that should have netted the Angels a prospect.
Even if Cobb suddenly pitches like he did 6-7 years ago, his contract expires at the end of the year. This seems like a clear sign that Perry is just planning on treading water in 2021, probably because Moreno’s budget is too tight until Pujols’ money can be reallocated.
Jessica hit it on the head
EpplerMinasian with more dumpster diving from the fill in the blank name GM as at a certain point it’s all Artie. He’s getting wealthier every year without ever fielding a championship caliber team. After 45 years of mostly this I’m starting to get more excited about the Padres.
Here’s a hilariously depressing tidbit on the Cobb addition. Over at Fangraphs, they have depth chart rankings for each of the positions.
After trading for Alex Cobb, the Angels rotation went DOWN, moving from #13 (12.3 WAR) to #16 (11.5 WAR).
You can’t make this sh*t up.
Well, I guess the trade did move the needle. All hail Perry!
So ……. they don’t think he will be 2013 Alex Cobb?
Even Alex and his family don’t believe that’s possible.
But what if his mother refers to herself as a “momma bear” or a “lioness”?
“Depth” as in our sinking ranking, until Perry shocks us all with his next brilliant trade.
Yall know I loves me some PTP, but nope, I don’t get this trade at all. There is no angle where I can tell what purpose this better serves than other less costly moves. As stated by others below, why not keep Jones and just sign Feirs or Anderson who may be better? Hell, why not just let Suarez and Barria pitch for super cheap? They don’t look any worse. If this was a Joe Maddon pick up, why not tell him to f*** off because this trade makes no sense? Why not spend the 7.5 on the pen instead?
I mean even if Cobb works out great, and I think that’s far less likely than with a lot of guys we could have signed or Quintana, what do we do if Bundy, Quintana and Cobb pitch well? We’d be in contention so we can’t trade em, and we can’t resign all three either, or at least I doubt it. This just seems like it has a 25% chance of really helping us, but a 100% chance of causing at least a small problem.
I don’t care about losing Jones, and no, it has nothing to do with Barreto. Barreto was gonna play ahead of Jones anyway, he’s a more successful prospect with more established upside. But even Barreto is a likely cut if they need a roster space or they carry 3 catchers or an extra pitcher for a minute.
My “If I were Perry I would” included grabbing Chris Archer. I guess I just picked the wrong ex-Ray. But you gotta admit that they had a pretty good pitching staff back in the day. I am of the opinion that this was requested by Maddon. He knows what Cobb was/is capable of.
On another note I have to say that CTPG has become about my favorite website. It is so refreshing to see valid discussions, without the name calling, taking place no matter what the discussion is about. I frequently check back 2-3 times a day and am rarely disappointed.
Thank you. Please keep coming around.
With the help of Alex Cobb, (Jake) Odorizzi developed “the thing”: a split-change similar to Cobb’s main strikeout pitch. This led to Odorizzi winning the 5th starter’s job in spring training in 2014.
I have no idea why this caught my eye.
Not to get off topic, but following the WSB on reddit has been very uplifting as well. Lots of unity over there which is really great to see these days. Also, I’ve been laughing my ass off at the comedy.
Clearly there is something wrong with your ex-Ray vision.