This week the Angels signed pitcher Jose Quintana to a one year $8 million deal. That was on the heels of signing Kurt Suzuki for one year, Alex Claudio for one year, trading for one year each of Raisel Iglesias and Jose Iglesias.
Also expiring at the end of next year is the largest contract in franchise history.
Could these be related? Taking a look at the Angels future salary obligations, you can see Perry Minasian having a lot more flexibility next October than he has now. Of course he’ll also have a lot of holes to fill. That combination gives him the chance to truly remake this team in his image, though, which has to be a major thrill for a General Manager.
Along with the names above, Dylan Bundy and Andrew Heaney are set to depart. By my math, this gives Minasian about $62 million in actual payroll dropping off the books after 2021 with another massive contract in Justin Upton due off the following year. Raises for Upton and Rendon do eat into that windfall by a sizable $13 million, though.
Perhaps Minasian is having his cake a little bit and eating it too. This is my take, that he’s improving the team for 2021, getting to know his prospects and keeping his options wide open for 22.
Fangraphs pegs Quintana as under rated and really likes the pickup for the Angels. I tend to agree.
And a bullpen that led the league in blown saves last year has a new anchor in Raisel Iglesias, who is really freaking good.
Most importantly, there are still far more pitchers of both the starting and relief variety than likely landing spots in a Covid depressed free agent market place. I’d be shocked if Perry is done.
The Angels are apparently a suitor for Brad Hand, for example, and plenty of notable yet less expensive arms like Mark Melancon, Justin Wilson, and Jake McGee are still out there.
And rumors still persist the Angels are in the hunt for Trevor Bauer. I think the team that stole our logo gets him, but wouldn’t mind being wrong.
If Minasian is looking forward a bit, here’s what he’s eyeing. Lots of elite level talent at shortstop and a sneaky good pitching class led by Thor but with a nice second tier of Stroman, Bundy, Gausman, and Davies.
Another way to look at that list is for trades. Not all of those names will be on contending teams in 2020 so renting one for the last half of the year, should the Angels be in playoff contention, will likely come at a more palatable price and with a better understanding of the chips in Perry’s war chest.
You can add the Toronto Blue Jays to the list of teams that aren’t waiting around. First they took a shot on Kirby Yates returning to form then signed George Springer to a massive 6 year $150 million deal. They even mixed in Tyler Chatwood.
It would be foolish for Toronto to think they will get 2017 titan George Spring who was second on the Astros in total trash can bangs. But he is still a quality player. Where does this put Toronto in the AL East?
Blue Jays fans are happy, Mets fans are bummed but maybe they shouldn’t be. Well, at least not sad about Springer, there are much larger reasons to be sad in Mets-land.
And where does this leave Houston? They’ve resigned Michael Brantley. So they are still down one stud player. They also signed Jason Castro to a two year deal.
While the market is starting to pick up, the likely landing spots for Masahiro Tanaka seem to be dwindling. I’m setting myself up for a buttercup here, aren’t I?
Several teams sent scouts to watch Anibal Sanchez and Julio Teheran pitch in a showcase. Minasian should be familiar with both as they were both Braves in the recent future. Not sure if the Angels were in attendance.
As for the long form reading to enjoy on this drizzly weekend, let’s take a look back at Donnie Moore’s complicated life. This one won’t put a smile on your face, but it will stick with you and give you a greater understanding of a man we so often reduce to one pitch.
Brad Hand to the Nationals: 1 year, $10.5m
They should have claimed him for $10m
Yeah. The talk was that there was SOOOO much pen depth in the market that everyone will be cheap…. but some guys not so much. I still think there will be some really reasonable relief help on the market, just not guys with “names”. The Iglesias trade looks gooder again.
OK. I’m just tired of this off season.
Let’s just sign Brett Anderson, Rich Hill, Mark Malancon, Tony Watson and Brian Goodwin to small contracts and get on with life. Let the complaints about a lack of zazz and champshine begin. Watch that whole group perform slightly above league average and see if our offense can get us into the Wild Card.
I like it. I’m on board with this, better roster, retains salary flexibility, maintains the farm and…gets us into the post season. Done.
It’s not sexy, but I think having that pile of Hill/Ohtani/Anderson/Barria/Sandoval at the back end of your starting staff may not be the worst thing. It’s just that Bundy can’t go toe to toe with a lot of teams #1 reliably….. but then neither could Weaver or Washburn.
Agree, I like the framework of what you laid out. After the Musgrove trade, this is where my head went as I don’t think Perry wants to part with our most promising prospects for a No.1.or a No.2, at least, not until the trading deadline. Some of the names mentioned above are interchangeable to some names still out there that could plug right in. But I get your MO. Hill is very intriguing.
I don’t know that there even really is a #1 or #2 available now in trade. I mean who? Castillo? The closest #1 to getting traded I can think of is a guy the Reds have strait up said they aren’t trading. Sure, if we offered Marsh, Adell, Detmers and Rodriguez they may rethink things, but it doesn’t sound like he’s on the market really. Gray’s a #2 and also doesn’t seem especially on sale either. Marquez? Have the Rockies ever made any noise about moving him? And so on.
Perry will most likely shop a package of prospects he’s OK with trading for certain pitchers, but it’s a total mystery who that may be for, much less who might say yes to him. This is why my trade idea in the If I Were PTP was for Keller et al from KC. Might as well ask them and see if they say no, it’s basically what GMPM is down to in reality.
I’ll have what Gitcho is smoking.
Batteries. I smoke AA batteries.
LeadHead, I get it now
Haha yeah, I don’t think that team sniffs the wild card. Seems like the same team we’ve run out the last 6 years. But just my opinion… The common denominator with every team that has made the playoff the last few years is at least a strong 1 & 2 SP, teams that make good runs have a strong 1-3. I’m a believer that in modern baseball, strong pitching beats any offense and if we don’t significantly improve upon Bundy/Heaney as our 1/2, it doesn’t matter how many Mike Trout’s we have in our lineup.
Taillon to Yankees for four prospects: pitchers Yajure, Contreras, infielder Escotto and outfielder Canaan Smith.
Perry…where are you?
Prospects 15, 19, 21 and > 30 as per MLB.
And if we’d traded 2 pitching prospects and two position player prospects for a guy with 2 TJSs, say our #s 12, 16, 18 and Trent Devaux we’d hear nothing but wailing about wasting an already thin farm on a guy who obviously can’t stay healthy, dumpster diving, the definition of insanity, blah blah blah. I like this gamble on this guy, but it is a gamble.
I’m neutral on this trade and us not doing it. Just signing Paxton seems like basically the same gamble and is something we still might do. We also still might sign either Bauer or Odorizzi which would be safer and better moves to me.
I have a feeling trade prices for pitching are ridiculous right now mostly thanks to the Padres, and GMPM is more inclined to trade midseason once our prospects have hopefully returned to MiLB play and perhaps bolstered their value.
I know it’s frustrating for fans who frustrate, but I feel like, if I were PTP I’d like to wait until Spring before I trade all that many prospects. I just got my big brain pile hired and set up with passwords and company email at the office. There was no MiLB last year, thus no real scouting of teams prospects. Sure, I have old binders of old info, but what will the various 19-21 year old kids in the org look like this Spring? How good/bad are Knowles/Adams/Devaux? I’d kind of like my guys to take a look at them before I ship too many of these guys away unless it’s for Raisel Iglesias or some equal player. I know it slows down the sprint to the ALCS to make Trout’s career actually count, but it’s the way I would likely be thinking taking over a team post Covid.
Per Passan, Baseball scouts say the Taillon haul is better than the Musgrove deal. Two of those guys, Contreras and Yajure, are on the Yanks 40 man roster and are expected to break camp on the finalized Pirate roster or ptitch sometime this year in the majors. Escotto is the big upside guy. There is more talent here than what appears to be just grab bag for a two-time TJ artist.
I understand passing on Richards. Banking on a guy known for big velo to suddenly stay healthy is right out of the Eppler playbook.
He is in the Kluber category for me. He might pan out and be worth the 10M, but that is too much risk (and money) for the Angels right now.
Tanaka wants $15m per year and still has a partial tear of the UCL. With the exception of Bauer, the remaining FA pitchers all have problems. We’re still dumpster diving trying to find the “least worst” pitcher that can fit within Arte’s budget.
Tanaka wanting $15 mil is a joke. He’s not worth $10.00.
Tanaka has been awfully consistent for the Yankees, and durable. He was paid 22M up until now.
I don’t know why, with his track record, he should be paid essentially what we paid Harvey and Cahill (and what Richards just got) as bounce back candidates.
He is 32 – and is probably worth 15M on a short contract, and could probably be had for a bit less if we pay more years.
If we can get him for less, we should jump on it.
Why would I pay $15 million to a guy who is going to deliver a FIP in the low to mid 4.00’s and less than 1.00 WAR???It is a sick joke.
If you are looking for somebody to eat innings ALOT of guys can do that and don’t command the money a washed up Tanaka would, lol.
I don’t know that Tanaka is washed up. I do know that, amongst all those meh pitchers out there are a couple guys who will match his output for 5 Mil next year….. trouble is figuring out who it is.
And 5 million is ALOT less than $15 million. You are probably getting a younger arm as well.
Sure. There will be someone who gets paid 5M and plays well. Gio Gonzalez did that a few years ago. So, who (as gitch said) is that?
Tanaka, Oddorizzi, Paxton are projected to get paid more because they have a better track record. They are more likely to be decent pitchers.
So, are you advocating the plan we used with 2B a few years ago (invite 4-5 to camp, and end up with Giovatella) or the Navapile approach to LF. We have been spending big money on OF (Upton) and IF (Rendon) as a consequence of that strategy.
The Dipoto Four is also a result of that approach to pitching. I would rather, as Perry seems to be doing, try to find relative security in the pickups this year. Heaney, Canning, Ohtani, and the potential of Barria, Sandoval, Suarez, Detmers, etc are risky enough. We need some stability, and if we have to pay a bit more to get that, and thus compete for an entire season, shouldn’t we do that?
Signing 3-4 5M pitchers has its own issues, namely the 40-Man. Unless you can sign them on minor league deals (meaning even less likely they pan out) we can’t stash that many pitchers without giving up on all our prospects (and the potential to have some of this solved in house).
And who, pray tell, are we getting for younger than 32 who will pitch well and get paid only 5M? Folty, Rodon, Trevor Williams? Is that the plan?
I agree……and what is said above is EXACTLY why it will be a Disney miracle if Trout plays for a championship before his 35th birthday.
I think we are a playoff team if we get one more starting pitcher (Tanaka (preferred), Odorrizzi, and Paxton) and probably another RP and a 4th OF.
If anything on that list can be had via trade for (1 of) Rengifo/Barreto and/or Thaiss, Jam Jones or a few other prospects that don’t seem to have a position, that would be icing on the cake (and likely net us a slightly better return than the FA route).
I don’t buy into the pessimism around here. We have been middle of the pack consistently, and we have made improvements and lost nobody of note (assuming the Simba/Iglesias swap is neutral).
The problem with what you are saying is that you are mislabeling Tanaka.
You are representing him as “stability” and “security” when he is FAR from that. To me he would be just another example of the Angels picking up somebody else’s table scraps. Why are the Yankees parting ways with him if he can still pitch? They want to win!! Don’t you think the NYY would hold on to him if he still was a valuable commodity?
There is a reason they are going with the younger Taillon and NOT Tanaka. Don’t be stupid.
Again, I have already said this but I’ll say it again, Tanaka is 32 yrs old with injury history and ALOT of innings on his elbow and shoulder.
Is his 2021 season likely to be worse or better than his 2020? You are crazy if you say better. The guy will only get worse from here on out. And worse than a 4.27 FIP or a 4.50 FIP is not something I want to be adding to my team. ESPECIALLY when it costs $15 million per!
This is like the billionaire owners who want tax initiatives to get the public to pay for their new stadium. They want YOU to pay them to make money off of YOU! Insane,
You want to pay Tanaka to make our team worse???
I’d rather go with a young non roster Spring invitee who costs nothing and he if fails you don’t lose anything.
There is no upside to Tanaka. Plus he costs $. THAT is why you look instead to a young unproven or an international prospect.
And BTW Canning is less risky than Tanaka because he is young and typically young players with a modicum of talent get better, even if only a little.
I don’t want to pay to make my team worse.
So, you are after dumpster diving. Noted.
I don’t think Tanaka makes the team worse. I don’t see how that he will project to be worse than our current team.
The Yankees can move on because they are full of younger upside prospects, but anchored with Cole. They need everyone (Taillon, Severino, German) to recover well in order to make it work. They feel they can count on Cole. Who can we count on in the same way?
We have upside in our young pitchers too, and we aren’t sure if any of them will break through. We need someone with a history of stability.
You think Tanaka’s arm will fall off. I don’t think so. I think he is the best risk out there to both pitch well and not get hurt. If you have a better suggestion, make it.
Which young, cheap, minor league signing would you make? I gave you options before, and you didn’t react at all. Who do you sign? Folty? Trevor Williams? Rodon?
I don’t see inviting players to camp as moving the bar. I see it as giving up, or at best standing pat. Are we already a playoff team then? Or do we go get one of the best remaining FA on the market?
I didn’t answer your question because I don’t agree with your premise. Who says those guys are the only options?
There are always other routes, other options. A team has to be bold to give unproven options the opportunity. But this starts with good scouting and being able to identify young talent or even bypassed overlooked talent.
Free Agency is not the only way to add players to your teams, that was my point. We are not limited to some short, artificial list. So no, I won’t be forced into choosing one of your limiting choices.
For starters, I’d rather give Barria a lot of innings even if only as a place holder while we look for that diamond in the rough. Barria will at least be competitive in most games and can get you through five innings and give your offense a chance to win. And he won’t cost you 15 million and hamper your ability to fill other holes.
We obviously don’t agree on Tanaka. Your points about the Yankees and Cole are not really valid. Just because we do not have a solid #1 like Cole does not mean you have to accept a subpar guy who is really truly overpriced.
Again, we have a lot of young arms that cost literally nothing. We are better off giving these innings to Sandoval or Barria.
The days of paying for aging, pricey, declining vets needs to be over.
I didn’t mean for you to pick from a list. I wanted you to make some suggestions, and not just criticize.
So, your idea is that we are ok with what we have now. I guess that is a fair position, but it means we are competitive as is (right?). Otherwise, we need to be shopping.
I suggested the names on the list because they have recently been paid around 5M. You suggested we should just pay a player 5M, but those are what the market is saying that amount is worth. If you don’t think Tanaka is worth 15M, then I am curious who would be worth the 5M.
The other option is either hoping our prospects pay off (maybe Barria and/or Sandoval takes a step forward). Then we are done.
Or we could trade for someone (but I don’t see any more game changers out there, for the prospects we have, do you?).
I want us to sign another proven starter. I think that makes the rotation better.
You seem to think our rotation is good enough, and then want to wait until camp. That is where we differ.
I never said our rotation is good enough. Please don’t Straw Man me.
What I said was that I would rather go with Barria or Sandoval then give Tanaka $15 million.
In a perfect world Arte would choose to go into Luxury Tax territory for 2021 only and give Bauer a big deal — but for one year only! That would be my preference.
He is a 2 WAR pitcher the past few years (only less than 1 WAR in the shortended 2020 season).
What makes you say he is ‘washed up’?
He is only 32.
Well, he has been pitching with that tear for at least five years now. This isn’t a case of bouncing back from injury to see if he has regained his form (like both Kluber and Richards).
Very few FA have a five year track record without injury. We can balk on the price, but I don’t think that injury is any more risk than any pitcher at this point.
I don’t classify this as “dumpster diving” as it is more about, what the asking and commitment price is. Taking Bauer out of the equation, we have: Tanaka, Paxton, Walker, Odorizzi, Porcello, Archer, Samardzjia, Arrieta, Zimmerman, Leake, Hamels, Fiers, Anderson’s (Chase, Tyler or Brian), Shoemaker, Folty, King Felix and more. I don’t see a big gap between talent from
The above list but do I see ones I would stay away from. So the answer i
to me is, get a 1-year arm,
at the best cost. Looking back now, Quintana was a very nice acquisition from a pool of similar arm.
Soooo…. if not Bauer, and not Gausman or Stroman, who should we be going after? Cause other than just making up trades that I have no clue if the other team is interested, I have no idea who to go get that isn’t what would qualify as “least worse” and “in budget” one way or another. I just don’t see a lot of good, cost controlled arms on the trading block.
I have been advocating for Tanaka and, as a back up option, Walker (who I think pitched well enough last year to show he was past his injury concerns).
I’d be fine with either. As a man with a partially torn up knee, I can attest, if the tear is in the right spot the ligament can be pretty solid still and kind of “heals torn”. I may need surgery some day, but I have kept trucking for 20 years with it, just can’t sit Indian style and pulling a boot onto my right foot is not graceful. I think if he’s had the injury for five years or more and still gets 150 innings in then Tanaka’s not that big a risk. I also like Walker, and as mentioned above, I’d actually gamble on Paxton too as long as Boras doesn’t think Paxton should get 12M or something.
Yes, there isn’t anything out there in FA-land other than Bauer. As for trades, frankly what we have to offer isn’t that appealing since most every trade partner will want cost controlled pitching in return.
It just pisses me off that we’re in Trout’s age 30 season and have no meaningful path to competing for a championship for another three seasons at least. “Hope everyone has career years” is not a strategy, but we’re here again hoping for the best with table scraps.
Well, to quote the immortal Carl Weathers, if you throw enough table scraps together you have yourself a nice stew going. It could work. He was Action Jackson, you don’t want to argue with him.
Thanks, Arte, your input is always well taken.
This is why we don’t win. You have to invest. Take chances, not saying I wanted GRich back, but starting pitching is what we need.
We will never win again until we start to invest in the team in a direction that can create a winner. Right now, no, we are not headed in that direction.
I don’t think this opportunity is a miss that represents an unwillingness to invest. I mean, if we got him, he’d be just another injury prone reclamation project to complain about. We’d see it as the same old same old accept this time it cost us prospects. Some would even complain that Cheap Arte gave up prospects we can’t afford to lose in order to get a lower cost Eppler pitcher.
We could actually take the same injury risk for very little money and no prospects, and maybe even get better production, if we sign Rich Hill. I mean, seriously, look at his numbers compared to Taillon’s and their shared injury history.
This whole starter market just shows why we need to invest in our MiLB pitching pipeline, it will do so much more than trading for or buying a guy who makes us feel good 25 games a year.
Yep, anything can fail. So let’s not try to make things better since we are failing already by not trying.
Arturo Moreno is the WORSY owner in baseball
Does trying to make things better, but not doing what you think will make things better, count as trying to make things better? If a tree falls in the woods….
As an owner that would want to win a championship, Arte does nothing and gets in the way when there is something to do. And what you think needs to be done is, gospel?
I get not going after GRich, if we are scared of his arm not a’workin’. But then why pay Tanaka more for a known bad arm, and some age advantage in that bad arm? But either way, Arte did nothing. And doing nothing gets you better or worse than the last time he did nothing?
What do four ellipses mean? Red shoes? Yes, bears do?
Soooo…. yes? The Angels can try to make things better without doing what you think should be done? which they are going to have to do because you don’t seem to have any actual ideas. Or no. It doesn’t count as trying to get better unless it fits what that looks like in your head? I can’t tell which of those your answer is telling me, the yes or the no.
And, who can they sign so that your little heart is all warm and happy? There are still a bunch of guys out there.
And is four ellipses a reference to anal sex? It is isn’t it. Or that movie Pitch Black? Both?
Arte has owned the team for 17 years. The results of the franchise while he has been the leader are louder than the “the tree falling in the forest”
I just mean that, in a lot of cases, a team improves and I don’t see it ahead of time. IE, turns out Mitch Garver is good, or Mike Feirs, or Rich Hill or Dylan Bundy. A lot of the time, in April, we don’t really have a sense of anything but obvious improvements, and even those can totally fizzle.
High risk, high reward. This is the post-TJ year where pitchers reclaim their effectiveness. He was not on the radar and that’s fine.
GRich to Boston. I hope he does well.
Me too. I was a big fan of his the first go around here, bad luck did him in. Was hoping for a reunion but Halos brass would not go for it.
I only saw Henry Aaron in person once, he was in the twilight of his career and playing with the Brewers. My memory is foggy, but Baseball Reference says the game was on June 6, 1975. Nolan Ryan was pitching for the Angels, the game after pitching a no-hitter against the Orioles. It was the top of the sixth and Ryan was having a typical game, 3 strike outs, 3 walks, a wild pitch and no hits. After two quick outs, Aaron came to the plate for the third time and hit a clean single to center field for the first of only two hits Ryan surrendered. As the years pass, I find myself even more amazed at how a 41 year-old man could still hit a Hall of Fame pitcher during one of his most dominate runs.
That’s awesome. Never saw either Ryan or Aaron.
Not just a great baseball player, but a great American as well. 😥 🙏
Sweet dreams, Hammer. Always gracious, kind, and just a fine, fine person.
is Willie Mays the last of his generation now?
Could be. Fergie Jenkins is still around, but he is about eight years younger than Hank Aaron.
Brooks Robinson is still alive and kicking.
Everyone knows of Aaron’s 755 HRs, but he hit five homers in the Negro Leagues, so is he now officially at 760 MLB home runs?
No, I believe they said that they were only adding Negro League homeruns while it was considered a “major league” which ended on a certain date (1950, maybe?). Aaron’s Negro League homeruns came after that date.
RIP Hank Aaron.
Aaron’s passing is devastating. We are all better off thanks to his efforts.
I can’t recommend his book, I Had a Hammer, enough.
Hank Aaron was a gentleman and a true American hero.
As far as I am concerned he is still the HR King, not the fraud Bonds.
Agreed. And I think a large part of why people were so upset with Bonds passing the mark is the fact a great gentleman’s record was being (fraudulently) broken by a man who was anything but a great gentleman.
I need to pick up that book.
Definitely. I have a review of it queued up here. Wrote it a couple months ago for a slow news day. Might publish it soon.
Hammerin’ Hank…is there a better moniker in baseball? RIP#44
I see there’s a suggestion to rename the Braves to the Atlanta Hammers. I like it.
Henry was such a class act. Only got to see him once, at Dodgers Stadium.. Hit a long fly ball to left center that got caught at the wall. When it came off the bat the crowd kind of took a deep breath- everybody got quiet, hoping to see a little piece of history.
Count me as one who is thrilled Springer is out of the division.
Also the death of Hammering Hank hits hard. It’s very sad. RIP.
One of the great uniform numbers in baseball, thanks to Aaron and Reggie Jackson. Napoli and Trumbo must have thought of themselves as home run hitters since they both donned the double four.
RIP Hank Aaron
Was fortunate to see him play in person. I watched him hit a home run (batting practice) over the roof of the left field pavilion in Doyer Stadium.