Thursday Halolinks

Welcome, welcome! The plot thickens…will our trade go through or not?

It seems that the first three-team deal is in jeopardy at the moment, as Twins prospect Brusdar Graterol may have failed his physical. Naturally, the Dodgers are only trading Joc Pederson because they picked up Mookie Betts in the process, but Fabian Ardaya of the Athletic says it’s not a problem. If the trade ends up going through, the Angels will have used the cap space they got from the Giants. Plus, Andy Pages seems about as decent a prospect as Will Wilson, anyway.

Enjoy some GIFs of Ross Stripling…he is freaking nasty and I hope the deal goes through so we can enjoy the fruits of his labor…the more I read about this trade the more I like it

You heard how Dodger fans will be invading Anaheim to boo the Astros. It turns out they invited Yankee fans along

James Paxton, the Yankees southpaw who once struck out Mike Trout four times in a game, is out injured again. It’s another unfortunate step in the career of such a talented pitcher.

Meanwhile, Pete Rose is trying to get into the Hall of Fame...yet again…odds are that if he keeps trying, eventually some kind soul will take pity on him and let him in. For now, though, MLB appears to have its doors shut. “The BBWAA has never been wrong”…eh? I can think of at least one obvious case in which they’ve made an error…thank goodness they actually voted Larry Walker in.

Spotify is buying The Ringer…I hope their amazing longform pieces remain…

It was Women in Sports Day! Here’s the story of an amazing athlete…there are many stories out there like this one…including this one at (TRIGGER WARNING) SB Nation.

Imagine being in space for nearly a year? I think I would go insane…

Finally, if you’re ever feeling down, remember that the trading of Babe Ruth set off a Red Sox years that last 86 years…I wonder if Mookie knows any magic?

154 Comments
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GrandpaBaseball
Legend
4 years ago

The question was asked today of what the predictions for our team we can expect in 2020. With injuries put aside for the present l think that we will make the Playoffs with at least 88 wins (But l am really believing more like 95) , yes this is a huge turn around l agree. Last season was a huge cluster f___ as injuries, death, and non performing individuals piled up to change the attitude of the team. New Year, New Manager, New Attitude, New Players are present. If Mike Trout plays in 150 + games you would have to say we improve 10 games with that increase alone. I expect another 5 games from Rendon, another 10 games from the pitching staff, as you can see that is what adds to me being so optimistic for the 2020 season. Simmons and Upton return healthy and ready, Thaiss and Ward along with Sandoval, Suarez, and a few others now have experience under their belts. Fletcher will play most of the season knowing where he is going to play. And at some point Adell will appear. Pederson kills RH pitching, power hitting will be coming to the Big A this season, maybe unlike anything we have ever seen. So yeah, l am very optimistic about this season. Hey we get to play Baltimore, Detroit, and while we don’t play the sisters of the poor, we do get Jedi’s team 18 times. We will entertain ourselves with talking about how good our pitching is this year instead of who will make it to 100 innings. This new group of added pitchers are good enough to be big winners with probably no less than 4 double digit winners. Can’t wait for the ST games to kick off and the regulars to start adding AB’s and playing together. Go Halos!

Jeff Joiner
Editor
Legend
4 years ago

Pitchers report to camps on Tuesday. As of this moment, Kenta Maeda doesn’t know if that camp is in Glendale, Arizona or Fort Meyers, Florida. Stripling is at least in the right metropolitan area but doesn’t know which camp he’ll attend. Betts and Pederson have an extra week, but this can’t be fun for them either.

Mia
Legend
Mia
4 years ago
Reply to  Jeff Joiner

I would put money down that this is resolved by the time they would have to report. Having to wait until the last minute to make arrangements must suck, though.

ScoopleDoople
Trusted Member
4 years ago
Reply to  Mia

I’d bear up those last minute arrangements pretty well I think if it was a 7 or 8 figure salary. 🙂

GeoKaplan8
Trusted Member
4 years ago
Reply to  Mia

I remember when Torii and Vernon Wells chartered a private jet to get from Dallas to Anaheim to make a game after a day off. Having money can mitigate some of the travel anxiety, but still any last-minute travel really blows.

GrandpaBaseball
Legend
4 years ago

If you are a cheater and there is no degrees or levels of cheating imho, then why is Pete Rose even remotely being thought of as a Hall of Fame inductee? Because the sops of the world forgive him? If you cheat there are consequences useless the Commissioner is a Jelly Spined Pencil Necked Geek and does not want to stand up and do what really needed to be done. His predecessor was of the same make up too, so there really is no fairness in the system that exists currently. The Hall of Fame needs to stand up to the plate also and make up a ballot who consists of who it thinks qualifies for entrance in.
Pete Rose broke a huge rule in MLB lore and he did not care about his legacy, only about the money. so why should any others truly care. Bonds, Sosa, McGwire, Sheffield, Ortiz, ARod, etc did not care but only for the fame and the big money that it would bring, so cheating was easy, as easy as the disrespect for the Game and those they played with and against. The same should apply to the Astros player’s when time for their consideration to the Hall of Fame. Verlander, Cole, Springer, Altuve, and any others are complicit in acting to cheat against others. Lowering the standards of induction does not make the HoF any better. As far as the history of the game is concerned goes, the folks will not stop going to Cooperstown because those that cheat are not allowed in, it just makes the game a whole lot stronger for recognizing the lack of respect that those individuals had for the game.

UnrealisticOptimist
Trusted Member
4 years ago

😆 but true GPB (SurfDoc)

Designerguy
Super Member
4 years ago

This should be the final nail in the coffin for the Five Guys v In and Out debate.

https://www.instagram.com/p/B8KFhDblGlr/

Mia
Legend
Mia
4 years ago
Reply to  Designerguy

“Dude, are you wearing shoes made out of In n Out cups?”

John Henry Weitzel
Editor
Super Member
4 years ago
Reply to  Designerguy

Can you eat the shoes?

eyespy
Super Member
4 years ago

You drink the lemonade out of them

RexFregosi
Super Member
4 years ago
Reply to  Designerguy

Miss UCD turned 21 today in Davis – I sent a pair to her yesterday when they were first announced

GeoKaplan8
Trusted Member
4 years ago
Reply to  Designerguy

“Honey, usually your feet stink, but tonight they smell like….[sniffs the air]….like….a Double-Double with grilled onions.”

eyespy
Super Member
4 years ago
Reply to  GeoKaplan8

“Animal style, sure sounds tasty”
Rex Ryan

Brent
Super Member
4 years ago
Reply to  Designerguy

$65… my wife tagged me in them. Helllll no.

rspencer
Trusted Member
4 years ago
Reply to  Designerguy

Yeah, I’m gonna have to get a pair of these.

boyjohn
Member
4 years ago

I think the Angels pitching is going to surprise people. Even if the new pieces just put up numbers similar to their history, this is a huge improvement. And the bullpen has the potential to be really good. Ok, so I’m an optimist.

GeoKaplan8
Trusted Member
4 years ago
Reply to  boyjohn

I honestly don’t think it is going to be the nuclear shitshow that so many are predicting. Part of the reason is the ability of this team should have to put runs on the board. For many pitchers, when they have the luxury of a lead they can pitch without having to worry that one bad pitch means his team is hopelessly behind. It is similar to improving the defense on the team, which was also accomplished this offseason. They can allow contact with some assurance the ground ball to the hole will be stopped, or the double play can be turned.

To me, this team shapes up as being very different from last season, even when the roster isn’t that different. I look forward to tight infield defense, good coverage in the OF, a better catching game, more durable pitching, and an offense which can put 5 on the board each night.

Mia
Legend
Mia
4 years ago
Reply to  GeoKaplan8

comment image

johnnyangel101
Newbie
4 years ago
Reply to  boyjohn

I agree.

I’ve said it before: our biggest free agent signing this winter was Mickey Callaway. Dude has twice completely turned around pitching staffs – averaging a 13 WAA improvement in each place. That’s a lot. That alone – without Rendon or any other acquistions – puts us in winning territory.

cookmeister
Trusted Member
4 years ago

Joc’s arbitration case is today. I find this situation fascinating, because the league had to bring in a 3rd party lawyer to run the case so there was no bias from the Angels or Dodgers that could impact the trade. If you’re the Angels, you should be rooting for him to win, raising the salary and reducing the level of prospect we are sending back. Never seen something like this

Jeff Joiner
Editor
Legend
4 years ago
Reply to  cookmeister

It truly is unique and fascinating. The Angels never get a chance to negotiate directly with him or his team, probably like to lose as you said, and the Dodgers have a huge vested interest in winning, which would keep his salary low for another team.

This series of trades is a better drama than most movies nowadays.

TheCheetah
Member
4 years ago

“Spotify is buying The Ringer” – the link appears to be different

gitchogritchoffmypettis
Legend
Reply to  TheCheetah

Unggggg. I hate digital business. Spotify, who has never really turned a profit, but has a high valuation, is buying The Ringer…..

Jeff Joiner
Editor
Legend
4 years ago

I would love to know the traffic on MLBTR since Tuesday evening. You have 4 heavily invested fan bases that are directly involved in this series of trades, die hard fans including large fan bases in SF and NY who hate two of the principles in the deal, then casual fans.

This has to be a banner week for them.

Mia
Legend
Mia
4 years ago
Reply to  Jeff Joiner

Yeah, but we crashed this place, so we win.

Mia
Legend
Mia
4 years ago

For the first time since missing out on Cole, I am excited for the season. This trade better go through. Which it should, from reports.

RexFregosi
Super Member
4 years ago
Reply to  Mia

I don’t care how bad the previous season, the winter, or if the outlook for upcoming season is….by the first week of February no matter what, I am convinced the next few weeks are going to be the absolute BEST ones if my entire life!!!!!

Mia
Legend
Mia
4 years ago
Reply to  RexFregosi

Why not us!

IEAngel
Member
4 years ago
Reply to  Mia

I feel the same way. For some reason this trade eliminated the gloomy feeling about the Angels that has been plaguing me all offseason.

It just seems like a move that has no downside to it. Pederson is a really good player that can either produce like he has or be turned into assets, Stripling would’ve been the best pitcher on the roster last season and has several more years of control, got a seemingly decent prospect as well.

And it was just out of nowhere.

Mia
Legend
Mia
4 years ago
Reply to  IEAngel

The pitching is going to be such a step up it’s honestly crazy. Given everyone is healthy. You’re basically adding a potential ace in Ohtani. He’s the wild card, as long as everyone else pitches to their career average we should be in a good place. If Heaney, Canning and Bundy improve, though, with this offense, look out MLB. The bullpen isn’t anything to scoff at either.

Not to mention the Astros have been weakened. I don’t see us going deep in the playoffs, but a wild card game win and a competitive ALDS would be incredible.

IEAngel
Member
4 years ago
Reply to  Mia

Even just regressing to the mean for most of the rotation is an improvement. Mediocre Bundy and Teheran are big improvements. Getting worst case scenario Stripling for 100 innings is an improvement. Canning and Heaney being back of the rotation guys that actually throw 120 innings is an improvement. Whatever we get out of Ohtani is almost certainly a massive improvement, even if it is like 15 starts.

Going from the worst rotation in baseball (non-Orioles division) to like the 20th worst rotation is a really big difference.

ihearhowie3.0
Super Member
4 years ago

Sounds like the hold-up isn’t just the Dodgers/Red Sox deal but also Joc’s arbitration hearing.

From what Rosenthal is saying, my suspicion is there may be 2 different prospects in play to the Dodgers: 1 for Joc @ 7M and a different one if Joc is making 9.2M. This is why we haven’t been able to learn WHO the prospect is yet

YOUknowulovetheIE
Trusted Member
4 years ago

I like the trade. I hope joc is more clutch than bouer. That guy ended up being a bust.

WallyChuckChili
Legend
4 years ago

Like the site of your profile pic?

Jeff Joiner
Editor
Legend
4 years ago

Great links today. Do t know why I overlook The Ringer so often.

I wouldn’t be surprised if this trade takes another day or so to go through. Like that Tom Petty song, the waiting is the hardest part.

admkir
Trusted Member
4 years ago
Reply to  Jeff Joiner

This will be good as it will allow the Doyers the opportunity to complete the Joc arbitration

WallyChuckChili
Legend
4 years ago
Reply to  admkir

And ask the Angels for better prospects in they win

red floyd
Legend
4 years ago

Doyer fans AND MFY fans?? I’m starting a GoFundMe for Arte to hire a bouncer.

Jim Atkins
Super Member
4 years ago

Agree with those looking forward to Stripling- just offhand, when was the last time we signed a pitcher that wasn’t a dumpster dive in some degree?

Jeff Joiner
Editor
Legend
4 years ago
Reply to  Jim Atkins

Cahill was coming off a good year with Oakland. I suggested him in my Eppler piece and the reaction to his signing was positive.

Jim Atkins
Super Member
4 years ago
Reply to  Jeff Joiner

We didn’t get him from the dumpster, but he surely did a triple lindy into it.

WallyChuckChili
Legend
4 years ago
Reply to  Jeff Joiner

Now this changes my mind on Joc Peterson

eyespy
Super Member
4 years ago

Yep, Price’s arm looks good, bad on me

Charles Sutton
Editor
Super Member
4 years ago

Jeff Passan is also saying the Dodgers and Sux say they are going to work it out one way or the other, notwithstanding the Graterol situation. https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/28644920/sources-prospect-health-holds-3-team-trade-involving-mookie-betts

AnAngelsFan
Super Member
4 years ago
Reply to  Charles Sutton

Seems like the simple solution would be for the Sox to take Kenta Maeda and trade him later for a prospect.

Jeff Joiner
Editor
Legend
4 years ago
Reply to  AnAngelsFan

Or the Dodgers keep Graterol and send one of their young arms.

GeoKaplan8
Trusted Member
4 years ago
Reply to  AnAngelsFan

The Red Sox don’t want Maeda’s salary. That would be counterproductive to this whole enterprise Bloom is taking on.

AnAngelsFan
Super Member
4 years ago
Reply to  GeoKaplan8

Why not? Maeda is owed 12.5 million over the next 4 years. Surely the Sox can afford 3.125 million per year when they are dumping over Betts $27 million salary and some portion of Price’s $30+ million salary.

Jeff Joiner
Editor
Legend
4 years ago
Reply to  AnAngelsFan

The Sox want a starter and Maeda’s contract contains a lot of incentives based on games started and innings pitched. If they put him in the rotation, they’ll pay him more. Maeda has more than doubled his base salary every year, even with the Dodgers pulling him from the rotation at time.
http://www.startribune.com/kenta-maeda-will-want-to-start-often-for-twins-to-increase-his-salary/567608762/

AnAngelsFan
Super Member
4 years ago
Reply to  Jeff Joiner

Thanks.

Sportshawk
Newbie
4 years ago
Reply to  Charles Sutton

I don’t buy it. It was previously reported that most of baseball viewed Graterol as a reliever. So it seems to me that after all of the negative reaction the Red Sox initially received to the trade, that they are simply looking for an excuse to get more in the trade. From Passan’s article “Although the negative reaction in Boston to trading Betts, a homegrown franchise player, was loud and abundant, it was not a driving force behind the holdup, sources said. Boston simply wants to ensure that it receives a commensurate return . . . ” The fact that the Red Sox feel compelled to deny that it is a driving force tells you that it really is.

GeoKaplan8
Trusted Member
4 years ago
Reply to  Sportshawk

If you remember when the Reds signed Chapman, they tried to make him a starter before deciding he was a 1-inning pitcher. Some teams see 100 mph arms and dream of a SP with those tools. Same with Eovaldi. That may be what Bloom was thinking, too.

Rahul Setty
Admin
Trusted Member
4 years ago

To those wondering about the origins of the site name, here’s a little tidbit: think about how we got here. 😉

BallsAndStrikes
Member
4 years ago
Reply to  Rahul Setty

What does google chrome have to do with baseball?

fishfarm
Trusted Member
4 years ago
Reply to  Rahul Setty

missed opportunity not naming the site haloshell

Simba
Trusted Member
4 years ago
Reply to  fishfarm

or HalosCesspool?

Rahul Setty
Admin
Trusted Member
4 years ago
Reply to  fishfarm

we considered that!

Blackgoat
Trusted Member
4 years ago
Reply to  fishfarm

TheBigFray

eyespy
Super Member
4 years ago
Reply to  fishfarm

Would that make us hermit crabs?

Stirrups
Member
4 years ago
Reply to  Rahul Setty

…because we hated finally having the power to edit our comments limited to less time than it takes an MLB pitcher to throw the damned ball?

WallyChuckChili
Legend
4 years ago
Reply to  Stirrups

I remember someone saying 90 sec wasn’t enough time over at HH. Can’t remember who

eyespy
Super Member
4 years ago

She did

ihearhowie3.0
Super Member
4 years ago

Not sure if it’s enough to be a contender in 2020 but I’m really impressed with the offseason when this deal goes through. Even with the insane amount of holes to fill, we got significantly better this year but also have very cost effective pieces in Stripling/Bundy/Adell that will be in place for years after as well.

Being one step closer to Pujols and Upton coming off the books should allow them to be more aggressive with pitching next year too

Jessica DeLine
Admin
Super Member
4 years ago
Reply to  ihearhowie3.0

I think with Stripling, Eppler finally moved the needle. Joc is icing but we needed another strong pitcher and Stripling can line up at the front of our rotation. Will we win the division? Probably not, but if this trade goes through we are legit wild card contenders.

Mas_Angeles
Member
4 years ago
Reply to  Jessica DeLine

I’m _really_ looking forward to seeing season predictions from you guys. With all the moves that happened in the offseason, what are we projected at winning? I have this feeling that our position players are better, but we have The Rotation Of Meh (TM) this year.

ScoopleDoople
Trusted Member
4 years ago
Reply to  Jessica DeLine

IF, IF, IF Stripling and the rest of our pitchers can stay reasonably healthy…

Jeff Joiner
Editor
Legend
4 years ago
Reply to  ScoopleDoople

I think we have enough to absorb some injuries this year. As it stands, Sandoval and eventually Pena are slated for Salt Lake where Suarez will be unlearning all Doug White taught him. Andriese will likely be the long reliever.

It isn’t the 90s Braves, but Ohtani, Stripling, Teheran, Canning, Bundy, Heaney, Andriese, Sandoval, Barria, Pena adds up to 10 guys who should all be better than most our staff was last year.

gitchogritchoffmypettis
Legend
Reply to  Jeff Joiner

You forgot Dillon Peters bro. I am mostly joking, but hey, he looked less lost than Suarez.

Blackgoat
Trusted Member
4 years ago
Reply to  ihearhowie3.0

I won’t prognosticate on the season’s win/loss column, but the 2020 team should be a lot more fun to watch than the 2019 team. That alone is a measure of offseason success.

Commander_Nate
Member
Trusted Member
4 years ago
Reply to  ihearhowie3.0

My first comment at HH I’m pretty sure was about defending an Angels left fielder named Juan Rivera. Might as well make my first comment at CtPG about defending an Angels left fielder named Justin Upton.

I hereby defend Justin Upton, through trial by combat if necessary.

RexFregosi
Super Member
4 years ago
Reply to  Commander_Nate

Yeah, J-Up is a really good hitter.

Man people forget who we had out there In RF the middle part of this decade and I just don’t get why fans think it will be good when he’s gone.

To me, it’s the same as hearing they’ll be glad when Simba moves on… I’m like “WTF?!”

Mountainman76
Member
4 years ago
Reply to  RexFregosi

Who has said they’ll be glad when Simba moves on? I have never heard that.

Simba
Trusted Member
4 years ago
Reply to  Mountainman76

A lot of people .. on that old site .. had proposed trading Simba in some sort of deal for pitching, not wanting to spend $ on his renewal as it could be “better” used on pitching, etc. Others suggested he was in decline, that Fletcher would be a better replacement. I’m sure you can guess my take.

IEAngel
Member
4 years ago
Reply to  Commander_Nate

I second your defense of Justin Upton.

Halo71
Trusted Member
4 years ago

Oh great, now we have to deal with Yankee and Dodger fans when we aren’t even playing them!

Charles Sutton
Editor
Super Member
4 years ago
Reply to  Halo71

At least the brunt of their obnoxiousness will be directed at the Astros.

OMAHALOFAN
Trusted Member
4 years ago
Reply to  Halo71

Good thing they have metal detectors at the gates.

Designerguy
Super Member
4 years ago
Reply to  OMAHALOFAN

More than half the fans won’t be able to get through ’em due to the metal plates in their heads.

ScoopleDoople
Trusted Member
4 years ago
Reply to  Designerguy

Hey, I have some metal in my head, really I do… But I would not want to go to that game so I did not have to hear and see a bunch of Yankee fans.

Designerguy
Super Member
4 years ago
Reply to  ScoopleDoople

Eddie had metal plate in his head, but he had to go the VA and it get changed ‘cuz every time Catherine fired up the microwave he’d piss his pants and forget who he was for a half hour or so.

eddie.jpg
ScoopleDoople
Trusted Member
4 years ago
Reply to  Designerguy

I don’t even need a microwave to forget who I am for a half hour or so. None of the pissing pants stuff though…

Designerguy
Super Member
4 years ago
Reply to  ScoopleDoople

One of the many benefits of living life pants optional.

BruinsAngelsKings
Trusted Member
4 years ago
Reply to  Halo71

That’s reason enough to not go to the game.

Jeff Joiner
Editor
Legend
4 years ago
Reply to  Halo71

Exactly. They’ll drink and talk over the game. Yanks fans will say Trout belongs there, Dodgers fans will claim to be the real/original LA team but neither will actually enjoy the game.

I’m hoping I’m not by them but feel sorry for people who are.

Mia
Legend
Mia
4 years ago
Reply to  Jeff Joiner

Or maybe it’ll be like the Christmas Truce in WW1. For one night we all put aside what divides us and celebrate that at least we aren’t Astros fans.

rspencer
Trusted Member
4 years ago
Reply to  Mia

I like your wartime analogy better than mine!

Mia
Legend
Mia
4 years ago
Reply to  rspencer

I like yours, too! I’m such a history nerd. Was always my favorite class in school.

rspencer
Trusted Member
4 years ago
Reply to  Mia

I’ve always been fascinated by the way things used to be, and as I’ve gotten older that fascination has only intensified. Knowing history makes all your other knowledge more meaningful.

Mia
Legend
Mia
4 years ago
Reply to  rspencer

Yep. Same. Knowing history has really helped wrap my head around the current state of the world(but I’ll leave it at that).

You realize we aren’t so different than those that lived 100 years, or even 1,000 years before us.

rspencer
Trusted Member
4 years ago
Reply to  Mia

That’s for sure. Also, no matter how great an earlier time may seem and how much you might wish you had lived in it, believe me, you don’t really. Just in medical advances alone, I don’t even want to go back thirty years!

Still, I wouldn’t mind having a time machine. . . .

Mia
Legend
Mia
4 years ago
Reply to  rspencer

I would never turn down a TARDIS 🙂

How great can those earlier times be when Mike Trout is alive now?

eyespy
Super Member
4 years ago
Reply to  Mia

History is great. You only need to learn it once, it never changes. Double-Plus-Good

rspencer
Trusted Member
4 years ago
Reply to  Halo71

Maybe I’m an idiot, but I’m actually looking forward to it. I like to think that, for this one series, we will all be Angel fans.

A common enemy can be a very uniting thing. Consider WW II, when the demimonde of organized crime came over from the dark side to help fight the Axis powers.

WallyChuckChili
Legend
4 years ago
Reply to  rspencer

It will be a game where Yankee, Dodgers and Angels fans will be rooting for the Angels to win.

This may be a glorious game

johnlweitzel
Member
4 years ago

I’d vote Pete Rose into the HOF for what he did at the plate. Maybe put an asterisk next to his name but he should be in.

Jessica DeLine
Admin
Super Member
4 years ago
Reply to  johnlweitzel

I think he should definitely be in it. One of the best to ever play the game. Other gamblers and terrible human beings are in the HOF. Let Pete in!

eyespy
Super Member
4 years ago
Reply to  Jessica DeLine

Pete cheated, he lied, he lied about how he was cheating. Who really knows how Pete bet on games, and for how long. His team, their team. He must of had a sneaky hand in the outcome of some of these games. The Commissioners since his ouster have all given a positive “No” on his reinstatement. There has to be some protecting the league on this, and they are hiding league damaging evidence which even Pete won’t talk about. The HoF is being held over his head. Also the HoF is independent, and they can do what they want to do.

What Pete did in baseball, sure HoF inductee. For what Pete did to baseball, never. Itegrity.

comment image
21(d)(2)&(3) sorry, and the HoF figures things out on their own.

And doesn’t he still gamble, and owe money to bookies?

losangel
Trusted Member
4 years ago
Reply to  eyespy

Not defending Pete, but is their evidence that he actually cheated? Cheating is different than lied and gambled, not excusing the man, but just want to make sure I understand the evidence on cheating.

Jeff Joiner
Editor
Legend
4 years ago
Reply to  losangel

No evidence of cheating that I’m aware. In fact his ban is for the opposite: the likelihood of playing to lose, or at least not to win by more than a certain number or score more than a certain number of runs.

eyespy
Super Member
4 years ago
Reply to  Jeff Joiner

And that’s not cheating? Who is he not cheating by controlling the outcome of a game that should be played under certain written rules?

Blackgoat
Trusted Member
4 years ago
Reply to  eyespy

Throwing games is worse than cheating.

matthiasstephan
Super Member
4 years ago
Reply to  Blackgoat

Wasn’t the Black Sox scandal exactly this??

Jeff Joiner
Editor
Legend
4 years ago
Reply to  eyespy

Cheating usually implies doing unscrupulous things to win. See: Patriots, New England. Throwing a game is generally not considered cheating, at least in my eyes.

rspencer
Trusted Member
4 years ago
Reply to  Jeff Joiner

Jeff, I don’t mean to be pedantic, but that’s not the definition of “cheating”. Wiktionary defines it thus: An act of deception, fraud, trickery, imposture, imposition or infidelity.

Rose did several of the listed things by putting himself in a position where his proper incentives as a manager could easily become distorted. Thus, he cheated. It is irrelevant whether he ever purposely did anything to make his team lose, or ever tried to gain an unfair advantage for his team.

matthiasstephan
Super Member
4 years ago
Reply to  Jeff Joiner

Black Sox?

Chase Kimura
Member
Member
4 years ago
Reply to  eyespy

If someone like Ty Cobb is in the HOF, so should Rose.

eyespy
Super Member
4 years ago
Reply to  Chase Kimura

No. In today’s era, Cobb would be in jail. But he played back, way back, in the day. When things were different.

But Rose broke that one rule.

ShowtimeDynasty
Newbie
4 years ago
Reply to  Jessica DeLine

I’m all for forgiveness, but zero tolerance is.. just that. Do advocates of Pete for HOF simply hate the idea of zero tolerance?

gitchogritchoffmypettis
Legend

Pete has still be zero-tolerated. His career was killed off 30 years ago. The HOF is a historical institution. He is a big part of baseball history. It’s the Hall of Fame and he is famous. If it were the Hall of Great Players Who Were Also Very Good People I would keep him out. But when I go to a war museum I expect to see some exhibits involving bad man. I expect a fair number of assholes to accept Oscars over the course of my life because assholes can act really well and still be assholes.

Pete didn’t cheat to achieve any of the things he did over his playing career. He is being punished primarily for being stupid and fighting a losing battle tooth n nail with the MLB instead of being contrite. I’m actually OK with that up to a point. Keep him out of the Hall for a while for that if you want…. an asshole tax. But it’s silly to not have the all time hits leader (who didn’t cheat) in the HOF at this point.

I hate the idea of zero tolerance only because no one seems to ever be able to actually enforce it evenly across all offenders. Same as how, in theory, I am all for the death penalty, but in practice I am against it because we screw it up.

eyespy
Super Member
4 years ago

Isn’t his bat in there? They choose, not us

Stirrups
Member
4 years ago
Reply to  eyespy

I’m certain that there is a lot of Pete Rose in the HoF. Just not all that…and a plaque.

eyespy
Super Member
4 years ago

To make things clear. MLB kicked Rose it for gambling on the game of baseball.

The Baseball Hall of Fame is keeping him out by not making him eligible because he was banned.

MLB and the Hall of Fame are two separate entities. One does not rule over the other.

Simba
Trusted Member
4 years ago
Reply to  Jessica DeLine

They should have a HOF Cheaters wing. Rose, Bonds, Houston Astros …..

gitchogritchoffmypettis
Legend
Reply to  Simba

Rose didn’t cheat.

eyespy
Super Member
4 years ago

Please. How does that saying go?

gitchogritchoffmypettis
Legend
Reply to  eyespy

Saying? Am I just supposed to know what you’re talking about? Or do I get to pick a saying?
If I get to pick I choose “Never start a land war in Asia.”

eyespy
Super Member
4 years ago

If you ain’t cheatin’, you ain’t trying

Simba
Trusted Member
4 years ago

fine, HOF Breakin’ the Law wing. Happy now?

gitchogritchoffmypettis
Legend
Reply to  Simba

My point was that Rose’s stats, by which he’d make it to the hall, are not in question, while the other players you listed have questionable total numbers because they cheated. It’s a fairly important distinction to make when deciding who should be excluded from the Hall and why, which was the discussion you chimed in on. It’s not really a trivial “happy now?” point, like me mentioning your shoes look stupid, or quibbling over a rounding error in some stat.

Simba
Trusted Member
4 years ago

That really depends on what you think the Hall of Fame should represent, now, doesn’t it? If we take it on face value, “Fame”, they all deserve to be in. And frankly, that’s my take – put ’em all in, warts and all, with big freaking asterisks, air all the dirty laundry, get Altuve’s vibrator in the hall. And, yeah, put them in a special wing/area, whatever you want to call it. I kinda like the Breakin’ the Law wing, as I have an affinity for Judas Priest, but, whatever.

Blackgoat
Trusted Member
4 years ago
Reply to  Simba

I’ve never been to the HOF, is there a wing dedicated to specific achievements from non-HOF players, i.e. Maris’ breaking Babe’s HR record?

SeaAngels
Member
4 years ago
Reply to  johnlweitzel

Pete Rose belongs in the Hall, but not during his lifetime. He should never see the plaque with his name and face hanging in the Hall.

Blackgoat
Trusted Member
4 years ago
Reply to  SeaAngels

I think this is it. He will probably get into the hall in one form or another, but not during his lifetime. How can the league have legitimacy on current-era cheating/gambling matters if they are giving a pass to someone from a past generation? They have to keep the firm hand. That said, I still think there is some kind of place for Pete based on his accomplishments, maybe not as a member of the hall but some type of honor seems appropriate.

hockey_duckie
Member
4 years ago
Reply to  Blackgoat

I don’t Pete has been given a pass. He’s has been punished and is continuing to be punished. To put him into the HoF after he dies seems petty. Don’t put him in at after he dies.

I’m indifferent about Pete going or not going to the HoF, but I do want consistency. Does Pete bring up a consistency problem here with punishment levied upon the participants with the Houston Astros cheating scandal?

red floyd
Legend
4 years ago
Reply to  johnlweitzel

F*** Pete Rose. I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again.

When Rose played, baseball had one unbreakable rule, and it was carved in stone above every clubhouse door:

YE SHALL NOT BET UPON BASEBALL, LEST YE BE BANISHED FOR ALL ETERNITY.

Rose knew the rule. He chose to bet upon baseball anyways. Doesn’t matter if he bet his team to win. He knew the rule. Screw him.

Jeff Joiner
Editor
Legend
4 years ago
Reply to  red floyd

I’m with Red. There’s one cardinal rule. He knew it. He broke it.

And I highly doubt a proven liar/degenerate gambler who often owed large sums of money to mob connected bookies always bet to win. I have to wonder how many of the times he got thrown out trying to stretch a single into a double or steal a base were actually hustle and how many were ways to make an out.

jco
Trusted Member
jco
4 years ago
Reply to  Jeff Joiner

Yep. He should not be allowed back in baseball. I’m agnostic on a posthumous HOF induction, but if he is ever put in the Hall, his plaque should have a line that says. Rose bet on baseball and was banned from MLB for life.

Cowboy26
Legend
4 years ago
Reply to  red floyd

Plus he killed Miles Raymond’s dad

GeoKaplan8
Trusted Member
4 years ago
Reply to  red floyd

Strong rec to read the story on Rose on The Athletic site, which is as even-handed and compassionate a review of Rose’s life and career possible. The takeaway from the story is that Giamatti tried his hardest to get Rose to simply admit to gambling; had Rose come clean, MLB would have put him on double-secret probation but he would have remained part of the game. MLB had really good PIs who apparently had the receipts on Rose, so denial wasn’t going to do any good. But, deny he did.

When Vincent took over as Commissioner, he saw this situation just limping along and decided to put an end to it. Ultimately, when Rose confessed to what everyone else knew he had done, it was far too late and didn’t matter. Incredibly, Rose agreed to his lifetime banishment from the game—not just the HoF, but the entire game of major league ball. Trying to overturn the ban because of the Astros ignores the point that it wasn’t imposed on him, he agreed to it.

More to the point, his protestations that he didn’t bet against his team were nonsense, mostly because there are ways to bet which aren’t zero-sum win/lose. He had the power to manipulate the outcome in terms of the point spread, even if he bet on the Reds to win (and the MLB investigators apparently found evidence he bet against the team as well).

Rose is a fascinating, deeply-flawed player and the article in The Athletic will justify one month subscription price all by itself (they’re counting down the Top 100 MLB players of all time, so each day has a different player and profile).

Cowboy26
Legend
4 years ago
Reply to  GeoKaplan8

Today was no. 50 The Ryan Express. It was good but not as good as some of the other profiles.

gitchogritchoffmypettis
Legend
Reply to  GeoKaplan8

Rose was stupid. He thought he could buffalo his way past the MLB powers because he’s “Charlie F***’n Hustle”. He thought he was an important enough patch in the fabric of the game that he could bigtime everyone and behave how ever he wanted and then say what ever he wanted about it when he got called out. All he had to do was cop to his mistake, but he decided to try and make a bunch of powerful people look like weak idiots and now he’s the one with lipstick on. That makes sense to me.

But he’s played out the way MLB needed him to. He’s pathetic. He’s a sad old man begging now. No one is going to believe Pete Rose got a leg over on MLB at this juncture. He won’t have a job in baseball other than brand ambassador at GABP, if that (he still has all the under age girl disgustingness to deal with etc). MLB can go ahead and play the “Am I not merciful?!?” card and let the empty husk of Pete Rose into the hall at this point if they want.

I think a lot of the FULLY PUNISH HIM TO THE FULLEST EXTENT! crowd are ignoring the fact that MLB can actually look good letting him in if they do it right (of course, a lot of red assed folks also just don’t want to like anything MLB does) in addition to the fact that, as is the case with most punishment/accountability discussions, they are applying a much harsher standard to Rose than they would a person they like, much less themselves or their kid, etc. Plus, what will create more joy in baseball land? Finally letting the hit king into the HOF or letting all those baseball fans go to sleep one more night with hearts full of joy knowing that the full punishment has been fully fulcrumed just as it was the last 30 years. Huzzah?

Do people really think that, after the beating Rose took the last 30 years, that future ball players will think it’s ok to bet on baseball because Rose finally made the Hall? Especially since they will probably be able to place a bet on baseball via a link on MLB.com in the next five years? Rose is a dick. I never liked him, and I even think his stats are inflated because he wouldn’t go away. I just think it’s stupid to not have him in the HOF. Also, for the love of God, put Shoeless Joe Jackson in too. A .356 lifetime BA and 170 OPS+? Come on.

GeoKaplan8
Trusted Member
4 years ago

”I even think his stats are inflated because he wouldn’t go away.”

But aren’t you advocating letting Rose in because he’s hung around for 30 years?

If he is allowed into HoF, does he get the right to give an acceptance speech? How much pomp and acknowledgement is he deserving of?

Since he willingly took a lifetime ban from the sport, MLB never had to put all its cards on the table from its internal investigation,, but the implication was he bet on his team. Betting to win or lose, he had the power to manipulate the outcome, either for his own bets or on behalf of other bettors.

I’m no Boy Scout, but that isn’t HoF to me.

Jim Atkins
Super Member
4 years ago
Reply to  red floyd

Yeah, count me in with Red and Jeff. No tolerance for gambling on baseball. If he was so penitent, why did he lie about gambling for what, 10-15 years? Sorry, Pete, You blew it, nobody forced you, you chose this. Knowingly.

Tree
Member
4 years ago
Reply to  johnlweitzel

Peter Rose has 4256 hits, he is the All Time Hits Leader, that’s a HOF career period. MLB is punishing Pete Rose for what he did as a Manager. Did he gamble as on games he was involved in as a player? Pete Rose is 79 in April, perhaps if he hangs around until and outlives everyone who resents him, he will get in someday. Otherwise it happens in some way after he dies.

matthiasstephan
Super Member
4 years ago
Reply to  Tree

He did gamble in the 1985 season, as stated on the 4th page of the Dowd Report. This is when he was player-manager of the Reds. https://web.archive.org/web/20160625220526/http://www.thedowdreport.com/report.pdf

GeoKaplan8
Trusted Member
4 years ago
Reply to  Tree

Nope, sorry. Crossing the line you know can’t be crossed doesn’t win you a do-over because your body is too stubborn to die.