LA Angels Wednesday News Crash: Snell ya later

https://x.com/Nate_Heisler/status/1861877216646176915

13 days ago

Billy Wagner and Ichiro would be my predictions.

Legend

Cowboy26

13 days ago

The Plumber is leaving the Country.

At least its still above the equator so the toilets still flow in the same direction

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WallyChuckChili

13 days ago

Reply to Cowboy26

We have another Stephenovics/ stephowinski type name in the minors. A pitcher, I believe. Hopefully his arm is strong enough to behold the Plunger.

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Twebur

13 days ago

Reply to Cowboy26

Geddy Lee Plumbing and Heating. Justin Trudeau and Gavin Newsome are twins, he won’t miss a thing.

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Fansince1971

13 days ago

Reply to Twebur

Take off eh!!

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Cowboy26

13 days ago

Reply to Twebur

So both were fathered by Fidel?

Legend

Cowboy26

13 days ago

Reply to Twebur

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Jm4LoOaAWI

Super Member

BannedInLA

13 days ago

Most people profess to be “pro-player” in their online mutterings and drunken bar room monologues but, you can’t advocate for a salary cap AND larp as being pro-player.

The doyers were rather fortunate last year vis-a-vis injuries. Their recent signings could, and probably will, blow up in their faces quite soon. if 2-3 of these high priced players break down, they are pretty screwed.

If teams are willing to gamble, they either get to reap the rewards or live with the fall-out.

Trusted Member

Mikeal1st

13 days ago

Reply to BannedInLA

I’m going to disagree. The Doyers did lose a lot of their pithing and still won a WS, and fairly handily. They are unlike any team that I can say I’ve ever seen. They have the money for a great farm, great free agents. Great development, analytics… The only thing that really sucks about them right now is their stadium. They’d have to lose three guys to not have an MVP in their lineup, and even then, they’d likely make the playoffs.

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Cowboy26

13 days ago

Reply to BannedInLA

Definitely NOT larping anytime soon.

Editor

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Jeff Joiner

13 days ago

Reply to BannedInLA

Strongly disagree. For one, I’ve long advocated for a salary floor equal to the share each team pulls from the revenue sharing pot. This would add tens of millions of payroll to the bottom half dozen or so teams each season. So, adding a cap and a floor would still benefit players if done correctly.

Secondly, the NFL and NHL have caps set as percentages of the overall revenue of the league with the players getting larger pieces of the pie than the owners.

The need to be pro player can not come at the expense of being pro fan. Kids in Cincy and Cleveland need to fall in love with the game and the behemoth clubs need competitive teams to play.

Super Member

BannedInLA

13 days ago

Reply to Jeff Joiner

I wonder if a salary floor would result in a reduction in franchises? At the very least, new ownership groups willing to spend money would be needed in Tampa & elsewhere.

Legend

13 days ago

Reply to BannedInLA

The only reason why the Dodgers are positioned to dominate for multiple seasons is that they never stopped building their minor leagues. They hired innovative executives to run the administration – including financial wizards who can navigate the CBA better than any other team. I don’t “hate” them, I’m envious at what they’ve built.

Legend

13 days ago

Reply to Senator_John_Blutarsky

Yes. That’s totally the reason. It’s why the Pirates are so scary now too. Being able to spend a couple billion on payroll over a few years doesn’t help at all.

Legend

13 days ago

Reply to gitchogritchoffmypettis

Happy Thanksgiving

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FungoAle

13 days ago

Reply to Senator_John_Blutarsky

Man, I don’t know. Freeman, Ohtani, Snell, Teoscar and more, they were all bought. Dodgers, like the Yankees, have excelled at over promoting their prospects and getting teams to bite. Starting 8 last year from the WS team had 1 home grown player, Will Smith. Outside of Smith, only other all star goes way back to Kershaw, I think. Their most promising pitchers never seem to make it due to TJ.

Trusted Member

Born_in_59

13 days ago

Reply to FungoAle

Walker Buehler has also been an all-star, but I get your point.

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Cowboy26

13 days ago

Reply to FungoAle

And One can argue that the Doyers most successful move last post season was not to have Kershaw available for their playoff roster

Legend

13 days ago

Reply to FungoAle

They grow and sell Trade Bait.

Trusted Member

Angelstan

12 days ago

Reply to FungoAle

You are correct Fungo. They bought three MVPs in their prime, a ton of relief pitching and now a Cy Young award winner. The money has been the difference. It’s like Steinbrenner in the 70s and people are trying to promote their player development.

It’s 90 percent about the money. They have outspent everyone by a lot.

Legend

Cowboy26

13 days ago

Reply to Senator_John_Blutarsky

Financial wizards? Hell H & R Block can figure out the Competitive Balance Tax .

In fact I’d argue the Angels have been more innovative in working around the CBT with those massive waiver dumps in 2023 to get below the Tax Threshold by $14.26.

Super Member

BannedInLA

13 days ago

Reply to Senator_John_Blutarsky

It stands to reason that the Dodgers have great system’s & management in place AND have Federal Reserve like levels of cash. I’m also envious.

Trusted Member

Mikeal1st

13 days ago

I’m fine with the Doyers signing Snell. Honestly, it highlights what I see as one of the biggest problems in baseball, and I kind of hope it pushes MLB to finally address it. Ever since the MFY of the ‘90s took over and rode their checkbook to World Series wins, it’s been clear to me that something needed to change. The current soft cap just doesn’t cut it.
Now, the Doyers are the juggernaut exposing MLB’s large-market versus small-market problem, an issue you don’t see in other leagues (at least not without relegation). Take it one step further, and it’s not even far-fetched to imagine a scenario where the Dodgers buy franchises like the A’s or Pirates and turn them into their own farm systems.
At this point, I might even root for the Doyers to go undefeated in the postseason if it forces MLB to make some much-needed changes—like implementing a hard salary cap and floor, ensuring national TV coverage with no blackout restrictions, and doing away with deferred salaries. It’s time to fix this broken system.

Legend

14 days ago

Let’s go Guardians, Royals, Pirates, Reds, Rays etc!

Fk the yuppies!

Trusted Member

CAoldskoll

13 days ago

Reply to gitchogritchoffmypettis

Marlins and Rockies too !

Legend

13 days ago

Reply to CAoldskoll

SNECKS!

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Fansince1971

14 days ago

Here’s what I think baseball needs to do to in order to avoid further domination by a few teams willing to spend like drunken sailors:

1. Deferred money has to count against the “cap” for luxury tax purposes. A contract is a contract and the value of that deal should be the contracted for price.

2. Similar to #1 – AAV should be calculated by dividing the contract by the number of years minus any bonuses – period end of story. So if it’s 10 years, $700 million – it’s $70m AAV regardless of when that money is paid.

3. We need a hard cap in baseball like in football. With that could also be a required amount of spending as well. For example every team might be required to spend at least $150m on players with a hard cap at $250m. It would be hard to get a cap by the Players Union but they may be convinced by the floor and the reality that it is bad for the sport to have a few teams dominate based on factors like huge television revenue.

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Cowboy26

14 days ago

Reply to Fansince1971

Do you really think $30 million a year in extra penalties is going to dissuade the Doyers from future dominating player acquisition ? because thats what they are avoiding now.

as you stated above a hard salary cap is a collective bargaining issue and the players union would shut down the sport before they would accept it regardless of the owners impassioned pleas. We have had how many previous work stoppages over this issue?

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Fansince1971

14 days ago

Reply to Cowboy26

I realize all this and my post was more aspirational than realistic. I just see the slow sad degeneration of the great game of baseball with the NFL being dominant by a larger margin every season. And now that there is a lotto system in place in baseball and teams cannot be guaranteed a top 5 draft pick year after year with tanking – the chances for a small market, low budget team to rise up are getting even more reduced. Baseball has attempted to deal with that by expanding the wildcard but the reality is that it is highly unlikely that teams with tight budgets and/or small markets will do more than play one or two playoff games a decade unless the stars completely align which is highly unlikely.

The result of this will be a few teams who are willing to spend like crazy being dominant except in a very rare year. The lack of true parity is a problem because (1) baseball is becoming a less popular sport given the slower pace, (2) lowered attention span of viewers and (3) there is a lot of constant competition for attention. Teams that suck for a decade and are located in less dense population centers are going to struggle mightily particularly without television or streaming revenue.

In some ways the Angels are lucky. They are in OC. They have some semblance of television/streaming revenue (at least for 3 more years). There are many teams that are just going to be priced out and this is really terrible for the future of baseball.

p.s. If there is not going to be a hard cap, the luxury tax penalties probably need to increase by like 5x.

Last edited 14 days ago by Fansince1971

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Cowboy26

13 days ago

Reply to Fansince1971

I Agree that the penalties should be higher ’71 but even the tax amounts have to be collectively bargained. The current system is the result of multiple compromises between the Owners and Players over the Owners’ insistence of a hard salary cap.

I would like to see more draft penalties as well. maybe taking away the Doyers first 4 rounds of draft picks and all of their international money over next 5 years may create enough of a deterrence. At very least they’d become the top geriatric Super Team in the Major Leagues.

Probably remind me of the 1982 Angels.

Member

KingsHalos10

13 days ago

Reply to Cowboy26

Penalties for going over the threshold should be higher, but there arn’t enough penalties besides money right now.
Agreed there needs to be a floor and a penalty filled ceiling. The lux tax is fine as long as the penalties are firm and really make it hard to recover. I like the idea of loss of multiple pick and int’l slot money. Reminds me of when the Angels went bonkers and didnt have a 1st Rd pick for years and lost the chance on Vlad Jr bc of dipotos stupid decisions.
How about follow NHL and put limits on the term for contracts. Give more leeway on teams keeping their own picks (longer term, not tax punishment).

The 10 plus year terms and deferred money is and has been awful. Only beneficial to teams that have huge revenue streams elsewhere that can pay for it 10+ yrs down the road. Ohtani is the unicorn in terms of talent and marketing dollars as that contract will be covered quite quickly.

Last edited 13 days ago by KingsHalos10

Trusted Member

Marcotor

13 days ago

Reply to KingsHalos10

If you think the Dodgers are going to be paying Ohtani $68MM/year out of incoming revenue in the future, you’re wishful thinking. There won’t be a nickel of 2035 revenue sent to pay deferrals. Mark Walter’s day job is literally making money, and Guggenheim wouldn’t constrain a future team by not investing these deferrals into annuities at current devalued rate. PS: it was Ohtani’s idea. No one had a gun to their head.

Legend

13 days ago

Reply to Cowboy26

Exactly. Why would the players come and “save” the owners from themselves?

Trusted Member

55yearsangelsfan

14 days ago

Reply to Fansince1971

$70 million now is worth a lot more than 2 million now and 68 million years from now. The present value of a contract, divided by the years, should be the cap hit.

Even with a proper accounting of the deferred money, the dodgers, et al, will continue to vastly outspend most teams. A hard cap will never fly with the players union. So there should be severe penalties for exceeding the cap in the loss of draft picks and international money. At the level the dodgers are at, they should lose numerous top picks and most if not all of their international money.

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Fansince1971

14 days ago

Reply to 55yearsangelsfan

Good ideas although I think deferred money should be discouraged so if a team does it, the AAV should be based on the value of the contract value no matter when paid. And yes the Luxury Tax penalties should go way up.

Maybe we should do a series IIWMLB and see what we can come up with as a community.

Legend

https://www.mlb.com/glossary/transactions/competitive-balance-tax

14 days ago

Reply to Fansince1971

I hate the Luxury tax. It’s a fake cap. It encourages somewhat wealthy teams like the Blue Jays and Angels to be middling. It creates owners like the Gugenheims and Cohens. You eventually end up with 5 owners who don’t care about the tax or lost draft picks cause they’ll spend to beat the system and then you have the teams not in the “power 5 conference”.

Maybe fans just need to get vocal and absent enough about a salary cap until it gets done.

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Cowboy26

13 days ago

Reply to gitchogritchoffmypettis

But thats the rub. There are no lost draft picks for going over the cap. Only the lowering of your highest draft pick 10 spots in you go $40 million or more over the first tax threshold . BFD

Legend

14 days ago

Reply to Fansince1971

I think that, if MLB can get that salary floor to add up to MORE money made by the MLBPA than it gets from the dozen huge contracts handed out by the DoyBoys, Skanks, Mets and maybe someday the Red Sox again and that can EASILY BE SHOWN TO FANS then maybe there will be enough pressure for a salary cap.

Fans and players alike will also enjoy shitbag owners like Nutting and Rhinesdork crying about a salary floor. Which may push it through.

I think if most of the MLBPA can actually be shown that, with a floor and a fairly hi salary cap, while none of them can dream on getting the 35M a year deal they were never gonna get anyway, they are far more likely to get that 18M a year deal offered to them by seven or eight teams looking to compete. Plus they are far more likely to get more money early.

Hell, you want to ice this? Put in a performance scale for arb and pre-arb players and get rid of arbitration. Use the standards that they apply to determine arb value for a player from say year 2 or 3 of a player’s service time. Get more of the young but merely serviceable guys who will never make 20M a year at least making 3M a year ASAP. If a players pre-FA value becomes more than a team wants to pay him then he goes on a “trade wire” and teams can all submit trade proposals to try and get him.

Thus if some guy, a fourth OF like Moniak, has a break out year filling in for an injured star, he can’t be stashed. He either gets paid a bunch the next year by his team, or another team gives up prospects so they can pay him that designated amount to start for their team.

Winter gets less boring for teams like the Guardians because they can go after real talent in the 10M range, plus farm systems take on even more value since that’s how you compete for those last couple “medium cheap” years of a good player before he gets to FA.

Said players also get their pay reduced if their value drops…. making them good flyer candidates….

There are dozens of ways to make a salary floor/cap situation work for all the MLB markets. Cut out revenue sharing all together and make owners happy. Smaller market teams can still make money by being good. It can happen, but I think making a clear plan that FANS understand so that they apply pressure to both players and owners is how you get it done.

Super Member

nishiogawakun

14 days ago

Reply to gitchogritchoffmypettis

Your lips to my dad’s ears!

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Fansince1971

13 days ago

Reply to gitchogritchoffmypettis

I like these ideas A LOT!!

Legend

13 days ago

Reply to Fansince1971

Baseball Czar…. I will totally visit every ballpark until I have a handle on the problem.

Trusted Member

toad2065

13 days ago

Reply to Fansince1971

This hurts me to say as a die-hard free-marketer, but the current disaster in our sport is probably only going to be addressed by government. Probably via the tax laws.

Super Member

clover_black

13 days ago

Reply to toad2065

lol hard pass.

Editor

Super Member

Charles Sutton

13 days ago

Reply to toad2065

Please nobody follow this up with a political rant.

Super Member

clover_black

13 days ago

Reply to Charles Sutton

2025 Making the Angels Mediocre Again

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Twebur

13 days ago

Reply to clover_black

We might have lost 99 games last year…..but if we “identify” as a team that won 99 games, we can change our trAditions. We’ve just been misidentified. We can become “Win Fluid.”

Free us from the Victimhood!

Trusted Member

Mikeal1st

13 days ago

Reply to toad2065

Yeah, the government needs to run baseball, like they’ve taken care of the homeless problem. Just tax it then it will go away.

Editor

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Jeff Joiner

13 days ago

Reply to Mikeal1st

I’d think the government really enjoys taking income taxes from pro athletes. I guarantee the athletes have much higher effective tax rates than the owners.

Super Member

Pineapple12

13 days ago

Reply to Jeff Joiner

Billionaires pay taxes? I think not

Legend

13 days ago

Reply to toad2065

The only weapon Washington has is to go after the 1922 anti-trust exemption that ruled baseball was a “purely state affair” and not interstate commerce, meaning it was not subject to federal antitrust laws.

Other than that, there’s nothing the politicians can do other than to ask for free luxury boxes and campaign donations.

Legend

13 days ago

Reply to Senator_John_Blutarsky

Actually, Congress could undercut all the hem and haw by just telling the owners and players that they will, indeed, figure out a way to have a salary cap/floor by XXX year or they will look into that 1922 law that a bunch of east coast owners got passed back when slavery was good and the Mississippi was roamed by tigers and pythons.

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Twebur

13 days ago

Reply to gitchogritchoffmypettis

They would call it “The MLB Unburdening Act 2025”

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Cowboy26

13 days ago

Reply to gitchogritchoffmypettis

So considering that the players and the MLBPA have long despised the Owners’ Federal anti trust exemption, wouldn’t they then have extra motivated to NOT cooperate with Ownership to pass a real salary cap?

I think we need to find alternative motivation for the players to negotiate something in good faith.

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FungoAle

13 days ago

Reply to Fansince1971

Let Freedom Ring, money don’t guarantee champions

Editor

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Jeff Joiner

14 days ago

Ichiro is obvious and should be unanimous.

King Felix is easily an HOF’er in my book. If he has the same career in St. Louis this isn’t even a debate.

Wagner almost certainly gets in this year.

I have more love for Andruw Jones than many and would vote him in, but see the case against him.

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red floyd

14 days ago

Ichiro and K-Rod. That’s about it.

Legend

14 days ago

Reply to red floyd

Wagner was arguably better than “K-Rod”, so there is that.

Super Member

RexFregosi

14 days ago

Reply to red floyd

Ian Kinsler has a case and maybe.

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red floyd

14 days ago

Reply to RexFregosi

Only if he gets the f*** off of our field.

Trusted Member

Mikeal1st

13 days ago

Reply to red floyd

I’ve just got Ichiro. Anybody who doesn’t vote for him loses their vote next year.

Legend

14 days ago

Career numbers is what is important, so why is Abreu not moving a whole lot closer? C.C. Sabathia should go in, maybe next year. King Felix, FRod, Rollins, Andruw Jones and Utley some year down the road possibly.

Cheaters such as Beltran, ARod, Carlos Gonzalez, Manny Ramirez, and Andy Petitte should be told upfront to not wait up waiting on a call.

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red floyd

14 days ago

Reply to GrandpaBaseball

CC will go in eventually because the HoF loves them some MFY

Editor

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Jeff Joiner

14 days ago

Reply to GrandpaBaseball

The last paragraph was made moot by inducting Big Roidy.

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red floyd

14 days ago

Reply to GrandpaBaseball

Don’t get me wrong. I loved Abreu when he was with us. And he’s probably better than some guys who are in. But he just didn’t seem like a HoF’er while playing.

Legend

14 days ago

Reply to red floyd

Abreu has a sneaky high career WAR. But he is still in the Dwight Evans/Dave Parker universe of “if he were a Yankee he’d be in…”

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red floyd

13 days ago

Reply to gitchogritchoffmypettis

He was, from 2006-2008.

Legend

14 days ago

Suzuki and Wagner and “That’s all folks!”. 😀

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Fansince1971

14 days ago

Reply to GrandpaBaseball

What about KRod?

6th all time in saves (437) with most single season all time (62 saves) in 2008. 16 year career ERA of 2.86. Lifetime ERA+ of 148. Averaged 10.5 Ks over his career.

I generally have a anti-HOF bias against closers but he arguably has the pedigree if closers are allowed in.

Legend

14 days ago

Reply to Fansince1971

Agreed. See above, listed as FRod. 🙂

Editor

Super Member

Charles Sutton

13 days ago

Reply to GrandpaBaseball

Perhaps people don’t want to confuse KRod with Fraudney.

Super Member

Pineapple12

14 days ago

Reply to Fansince1971

KRod is 100000000% a HOFer in my mind

Trusted Member

Angelstan

14 days ago

HOF names that stuck out on a first run through: Suzuki, Tulowitzki. There are a lot of very good players on the ballot — a ton of almosts. It’s a hard line to draw. My memory may not be perfect but wasn’t David Wright heading toward HOF status at one point? I think Kinsler has numbers too, although I never really viewed him as an HOF guy.

Super Member

Pineapple12

14 days ago

Reply to Angelstan

Wright and Tulo were so so so so good. Injuries ended both careers early, which will most likely keep both out of the HOF.

Tulo was one of my favorite non-Angels.

Legend

14 days ago

Reply to Pineapple12

Ditto with Pedroia.

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red floyd

14 days ago

Reply to GrandpaBaseball

Yeah, but HoF also loves some RoidSux.

Trusted Member

Angelstan

14 days ago

Reply to Pineapple12

Tulo was basically the best player in baseball, especially considering his position, for multiple years. That should count for something. But I get the various issues. There are too many guys that played a while and put up decent numbers — but were never “the guy” or close to it. Yet, they get considered due to longevity and what team they played on.

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red floyd

13 days ago

Reply to Pineapple12

Don’t forget, Tulo was “better than Trout because Shortstop”.

Trusted Member

Born_in_59

14 days ago

Hall of Fame prognostication here. Suzuki makes it on his first year, but probably not unanimous since somebody will turn in a blank ballot in protest. Wagner’s been building support and should probably make it on his last year. Sabathia will get more votes than A-Rod and Felix Hernandez gets enough to stay on the ballot for next year. Unfortunately, I think Torii Hunter will fall off the ballot as no one is trying to make a case for him. On the committee side, I see both negro league candidates being voted in, but while I think Dick Allen deserves it too, they’ll probably go with Tommy John.

Super Member

Pineapple12

14 days ago

Reply to Born_in_59

Fun fact about Torii Hunter — according to BBRef, his 2 highest single season WARs came during his time as a Halo!

2009 (age 33) = 5.3 WAR
2012 (age 36) = 5.4 WAR

Much love for Torii

Editor

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Jeff Joiner

14 days ago

Reply to Pineapple12

Torii is one of my all time favorite players. I loved watching him in Minnesota and rank him as my favorite Angel signing of all time.

Trusted Member

CAoldskoll

14 days ago

Reply to Jeff Joiner

For sure. Was a joy to see ‘Big Game Hunter’ opening day 2024 out front of the stadium signing random autographs for fans.

Super Member

tanana40

14 days ago

Eventually, the Dodger organization has to pay the deferred money, right?

Trusted Member

Born_in_59

14 days ago

Reply to tanana40

Sure, but they won’t be investing in a Ponzi scheme in order to afford it.

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Cowboy26

14 days ago

Reply to Born_in_59

Deferred money is such a joke . I’m shocked the Owners ever allowed this as an acceptable way to reduce their CBT exposure . With Mookie Uni Freddie and the Snell it looks like they’re deferring about $83 million in salaries a year . That means avoiding about $33 million in annual CBT penalties for the minimum of the next 5 years Not sure that’s much of a deterrent for them.

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red floyd

14 days ago

Reply to Cowboy26

The other owners left the loophole open on the off chance that they could use it.

Players want it left open because they want the big buck$.

Legend

13 days ago

Reply to red floyd

Bingo. It’s good for the players. It’s good for the owners. Any team can use the “deferred money” approach, that’s why the loop hole will not be closed any time soon.

Legend