LA Angels Monday News Crash: Will Compete

The Angels supposedly intend to compete in 2025 and will spend more money.

The Dodgers/Padres NLDS is all tied up. The Padres are holding their own despite Dodgers fans throwing things at them. Freddie Freeman and Xander Bogaerts both left game 2 with injuries. The other NLDS is also tied up, thanks to Nick Castellanos.

The Yankees took game 1 from the Royals in their series. The Guardians beat the Tigers in their game 1.

Left-hander Shinnosuke Ogasawara will request posting to the major leagues this off season.

Photo credit: Rex Fregosi

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Jim Atkins
Super Member
1 month ago

Competitive in 2025? I don’t see it, unless Arte unleashes the checkbook. This is a kind of weak free agent offseason, so that might not help. He’d be better off spending on the farm system and actual player development. BTW I was in Huntsville last week visiting Apollo 16 at the Space and Rocket Center. Went past the Trash Panda’s park. Very nice facility.

Here’s a thought- Salt Lake has such a major effect on both hitters and pitchers, affecting their stats. How about changing AAA affiliates?

gitchogritchoffmypettis
Legend
Reply to  Jim Atkins

Amen.

gitchogritchoffmypettis
Legend

Wow. Owner of bereft team says says they plan to compete next year.

Same people who are furious when state governor says the economy is looking up are also angry with said owner.

Arte has got the financials from this season in the last few days. He’s set a budget. We will, indeed, probably spend more next year. It’s not really big news.

We also know there’s not enough money, or free agents willing to come here, to totally make a 30 game jump next season.

It won’t happen, but wouldn’t it be wild if Arte bumped payroll all the way up to 205M and traded everyone he could for prospects over the winter. Then carried Rendon and traded for three or four teams “sunk cost” contracts that have a couple more years on them but got back a dozen or so really good prospects? Basically “splash bought” a farm? We suck for a year, he cuts bait on those awful deals in 2026. We have a team full of young studs that are cheap. 2027 he has a young hot teams AND a pile of money as Rendon and Friends fall off his payroll. We sign a few good FAs. We win 2 championships that year we’re so good.

Roy Hobbs
Super Member
1 month ago

That would be great but that is not how he thinks.

Born_in_59
Trusted Member
1 month ago

If that were to happen, I could only conclude you must secretly be Perry Minasian and are here only to troll disgruntled fans.

HalosFanForLife
Trusted Member
1 month ago
Reply to  Born_in_59

You don’t feel privileged to glow in the aura of his self-righteousness?

RexFregosi
Super Member
1 month ago

Tempe Diablo construction of clubhouse (Sunday 10/6)
everything to left of yellow line is new (i drew that yellow line -that is not a foul pole)

A lot more expansive than i originally thought – looks like a real MLB clubhouse there!
(the batting cages and small infield are are long gone)

https://flic.kr/p/2qmfkRF

Last edited 1 month ago by RexFregosi
RexFregosi
Super Member
1 month ago
Reply to  RexFregosi

https://ballparkdigest.com/2024/03/22/tempe-diablo-stadium-renovations-back-on-track/

It’s no secret that Tempe has been waiting to pull the trigger on Tempe Diablo Stadium renovations, work that was paused while the team was placed on the market by owner Arte Moreno. After Moreno decided not to sell the Angels, the renovation plan was revived, with the Angels covering the increased costs of the expansion.
The first phase of Tempe Diablo Stadium renovations, approved by the city earlier this month, will see a $23 million plan, funded with $10.9 million in city money, launch and be completed before spring training 2025. Phase 1 calls for a new 46,000-square-foot building featuring MLB/MiLB clubhouses, performance lab, player dining and meeting areas, indoor workout spaces, team offices, hydrotherapy pool and permanent team store on the west side of the ballpark. The work will be overseen by M.A. Mortenson.
Phase 2 was originally budgeted at $30 million and covers a new 360-degree concourse, upgraded seating, better lighting, rebuilt berms, new digital signage, upgraded restrooms, street improvements and new shade structures. There’s no timeline yet for Phase 2 upgrades, which could start in either 2025 or 2026.
The upgrade plans came with a commitment from the Angels to call Tempe Diablo Stadium their spring home through 2035, with two five-year options that could extend the stay through 2045.

Last edited 1 month ago by RexFregosi
clover_black
Super Member
1 month ago
Reply to  RexFregosi

sweet!!!

Twebur
Legend
1 month ago
Reply to  clover_black

Hope Arte isn’t lying to us and it’s not just another Walmart.

steelgolf
Legend
1 month ago
Reply to  Twebur

🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

CAoldskoll
Trusted Member
1 month ago

I’m all in for contending next year and spending for free agents. Who says we can’t be like Tigers or Royals? Some of our young players could breakout along with some consistency from Trout, Ward and Rengifo staying injury free. Just make sure FA contracts are top loaded and not long term. That would make them valuable trade assets for prospects if the season bombs.

PedroCerrano
Super Member
1 month ago
Reply to  CAoldskoll

comment image

Roy Hobbs
Super Member
1 month ago
Reply to  CAoldskoll

I will say that we can’t be like the Tigers and the Royals because we don’t have the talent base and the money required to add enough talent is way more than the budget.

RexFregosi
Super Member
1 month ago
Reply to  Roy Hobbs

It will take BOTH those kids stepping up and also using an EXTRA $40 million wisely – that could bring in 2-3 key players.

But yep – it will take a LOT more than three bonafide real MLB players arriving. Our current players must step up.

Erstad with the catch
Member
1 month ago
Reply to  CAoldskoll

Well…the Royals invested heavily in scouting, coaching, and analytics over the past few years. Trading for a player like Cole Ragans doesn’t happen by accident.

The Angels are too cheap to invest in the future.

gitchogritchoffmypettis
Legend
Reply to  CAoldskoll

Why do people on this site keep saying things like Just make sure FA contracts are top loaded and not long term.”? Now I am not sure who you have in mind, but I see people saying that about top ten free agents every winter, including heading into this one.

Can we get FAs on short, front loaded deals? Sure. Can we trade them if the team flames out? Maybe. Are any of the free agents that are willing to do that guys who will make us obviously competitive in March? Nope. They will be Ol’ CheapnEvil dumpster dives.

I’m sure we’ll sign some players. We pretty much have to. But guys who will add say 20 wins to the team? On short deals? Nope.

Mikeal1st
Trusted Member
1 month ago

Surprise! The Angels plan to compete next year—again. Just like every other season in the last decade, despite not having a winning record since 2014, the team’s brass is talking about being “competitive.” Everyone seems pumped about it… well, everyone except Ohtani, who’s done the smart thing and moved on. As much as I can’t root for the Dodgers, I can’t fault Ohtani for choosing a team that’s built to win now.
Hearing “we’re going to be competitive” from the Angels at this point is basically background noise. It’s like clockwork—empty promises while we’re still waiting for real progress. And honestly, the only reason I’m still hanging around is because of CTPG. Otherwise, my fandom would be hanging by a thread.

Born_in_59
Trusted Member
1 month ago
Reply to  Mikeal1st

If you mean overall record since 2014, then okay, but in 2015 they were in wild card hunt until the end of the season. I blame the team’s woes on Arte getting rid of the “of Anaheim” for our cursed luck.

Roy Hobbs
Super Member
1 month ago
Reply to  Born_in_59

He meant to say 9 straight losing seasons since 2015. No postseason since 2014.

gitchogritchoffmypettis
Legend
Reply to  Mikeal1st

I also plan to compete next year myself. It’s gonna be rad. Gitcho2025.

Senator_John_Blutarsky
Legend

The butt of everyone’s jokes….

https://x.com/jorgecastillo/status/1842764640289239499

RexFregosi
Super Member
1 month ago

jazz sucks

Senator_John_Blutarsky
Legend
Reply to  RexFregosi

Even Duke Silver?

comment image

DowningDude
Legend
1 month ago

I think Moreno did that Aaron Rodgers ayahuasca and isolation thing and came out “dude … we’re totally gonna compete”

LOLZ

Fansince1971
Legend
1 month ago

I am curious as to the general thought process of you good people on the following issue. I would do a poll if I knew how. I am curious because one answer means you believe that luck could turn and the Angels actually could be competitive in 2025 and the other answer means we are basically F’D until ownership changes.

So answer the following question with either “bad luck” or “ownership”. Cannot be both – one or the other.

The Angels decade long failure despite having two MVPs on the team is due to:

steelgolf
Legend
1 month ago
Reply to  Fansince1971

Owner.

He tore down the infrastructure of the team and never replaced it. The real damage started during the reign of Carlton.

MHKAngelFan
Newbie
1 month ago
Reply to  Fansince1971

Ownership.

If our woes were not so consistent, I’d say bad luck. I feel like a many of the moves over the last ten years have been decent enough on paper to raise the floor and allow Trout/Ohtani to carry us the rest of the way. However, since the ownership has gutted the infrastructure, allowing our good signings to be mediocre at best, and our average signings to be complete failures. The lack of player development prevented any depth from coming up from the minors to prop the team up after free agent and trade acquisitions collapse.

Senator_John_Blutarsky
Legend
Reply to  Fansince1971

Owner. Fish rots from the head down….

Culture is driven from the top of any organization.

Twebur
Legend
1 month ago

Speaking of driven……this is what I fully expect we will be driving in 2025, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, ………………………………..trAdition

https://x.com/ClownWorld_/status/1843097648632668471

halofansince1978
Super Member
1 month ago
Reply to  Fansince1971

In all of life everything starts at the top…poop rolls downhill.

Roy Hobbs
Super Member
1 month ago
Reply to  Fansince1971

Owner and bad luck, it is both. They have had some terrible luck regarding injuries especially to Trout, but the owner is the larger contributor for numerous reasons.

Fansince1971
Legend
1 month ago
Reply to  Roy Hobbs

Can only be one or the other for this poll. I understand the concept of it being both but for this poll you need to chose one. Maybe think of it as which (ownership or bad luck) is mostly to blame.

MarineLayer
Super Member
1 month ago
Reply to  Fansince1971

Branch Rickey said, luck is the residue of design. John Wooden said, failure to prepare is preparing to fail. Marine Layer says, Arturo is the worst owner in professional sports, so of course their luck is bad and they suck. You build a crap org from top to bottom, you will suck.

Born_in_59
Trusted Member
1 month ago
Reply to  MarineLayer

I don’t disagree with your point but find the reference to Branch Rickey funny since he was often slammed for building teams that could compete to the last day of the season to put butts in the seats, but not win it all so he wouldn’t have to raise salaries the following year. Sounds a bit like Arte.

Mikeal1st
Trusted Member
1 month ago
Reply to  MarineLayer

My dad used to say that luck is being ready for opportunity.

Jeff Joiner
Editor
Legend
1 month ago
Reply to  Mikeal1st

Yes, not sure who coined the phrase but “luck is when preparation meets opportunity” was ingrained in me early.

Roy Hobbs
Super Member
1 month ago
Reply to  Jeff Joiner

So to a certain extent that is true. The more you’re prepared for and the better your preparation, the greater your odds of succeeding. There are things you can do to help lesson the likelihood of injuries, but they still happen. And who could have predicted that Rendon would go from a 144 OPS+ player for 3 seasons to a below 100 OPS+ player in one season with no gradual decline. But he did only have 3 seasons and was not great previous to them. The problem was the length of the deal and that he was not a 40M dollar player even at his best. But you are right, proper preparation increases your chance for success and this organization has failed miserably in preparing and as a result made many awful decisions. Gary Mathews Jr, Hamilton, Pujols, Wells, Mozart, and Upton’s extension were all foreseeable bad decisions. Giving players long term contracts after 30 carries great risk and extending that to after 35 is just plain stupid.

DaveChalk
Trusted Member
1 month ago
Reply to  Fansince1971

Ownership above luck. Bad luck $75 million goes towards two guys who produce little due to injuries but at no point since 2020 have I felt the team around a healthy Trout and Rendon is a legit contender. Certainly way less so for 2025. Moreno must be watching a way different team than we did in 2024 if he feels he can a few FA’s will give this team 25 more wins.

Last edited 1 month ago by DaveChalk
cookmeister
Trusted Member
1 month ago
Reply to  Fansince1971

I’ll probably be the only person to say bad luck. That does not mean the owner has not played a part

People forget the decade of success that Arte and the Angels had, bringing in fan favorites Vlad and Hunter. Nobody thought Rendon would do what he has done (or lack thereof), Pujols to a degree, all of the injuries, Trout not having a full season the last 5 years, Hamilton getting back on the coke and hitting his daughter.

Fansince1971
Legend
1 month ago
Reply to  cookmeister

I believe Arte’s success was largely built on the shoulders of the work that went into building the Org that won in 2002. He rode those coattails until finally he believed he really knew what he was doing. And then the dismantling of the Organizational framework began.

cookmeister
Trusted Member
1 month ago
Reply to  Fansince1971

maybe partly, but I disagree. The Disney owned Angels were cheap. They had a magical run, no doubt, but they did not spend any money whatsoever. If Disney continued to own them, we would not have signed Vlad, Torii, Weaver extension, etc etc.

Again, Arte is to blame for some things for sure, but we went from one of the lowest payrolls to one of the highest, had great success (until recently), so ya I’d say bad luck with guys being hurt and not performing is a huge factor.

Roy Hobbs
Super Member
1 month ago
Reply to  cookmeister

But Arte was able to be successful be cause during the 1st 10 years he was outspending the other teams in the division. Once the other teams started spending, he no longer had that advantage and they made better baseball decisions.

Last edited 1 month ago by Roy Hobbs
cookmeister
Trusted Member
1 month ago
Reply to  Roy Hobbs

I see what you’re saying, but he spent and those players produced…… the last ten years the players that were paid, did not

Roy Hobbs
Super Member
1 month ago
Reply to  cookmeister

True

Marcotor
Trusted Member
1 month ago
Reply to  Fansince1971

It’s all on Arte and buddy Crapino.

But didn’t that “successful” org also play under .500 baseball in 2001 and 2003? What’s magic about 2002. Sure, they won a championship, riding a wave of momentum and a bunch of guys having career years. They were JUST players, not gods. And Bill Bavasi never got credit for laying the groundwork that “genius” Stand Pat Stoneman took endless bows for. Disney was cheap. Not as cheap as the widow of the beloved cowboy, but everyone seems to forget the missives of Tony Tavares in the warm glow of a championship.

Last edited 1 month ago by Marcotor
Born_in_59
Trusted Member
1 month ago
Reply to  Fansince1971

I won’t deny that there’s been bad luck, but I say its ownership’s fault. Winning organizations avail themselves to analytics, employ scouts to spot talent, a staff to develop and support said talent, and a head office that prepares and executes plans to improve. I’ve seen bits and pieces of that over the past 10 years, but only in this past year does it seem to actually be happening.

Fansince1971
Legend
1 month ago
Reply to  Charles Sutton

Great point. Ownership that counts luck as part of the plan is bad ownership imo

RexFregosi
Super Member
1 month ago
Reply to  Fansince1971

Owner.

But with some GOOD luck 🍀 and a real budget for LA, we can win some games in October

DowningDude
Legend
1 month ago
Reply to  Fansince1971

comment image

JackFrost
Super Member
1 month ago
Reply to  DowningDude

That guy tied up actually looks like Arte !!

PedroCerrano
Super Member
1 month ago
Reply to  Fansince1971

Crappy owner = crappy team. Nothing changes until that changes.

Jeff Joiner
Editor
Legend
1 month ago
Reply to  Fansince1971

Clearly the owner.

Yes there’s been bad luck due to injuries but when you have your MLB team preparing for the season at your minor league facility for years and skimp on your training team that’s partially on the owner.

Further, when your minor league system is devoid of talent to spell injured players, that is also on the owner.

gitchogritchoffmypettis
Legend
Reply to  Fansince1971

Bad luck. If even half of the pitching prospects who failed/injured/died worked out and half the FAs we’ve signed didn’t fall prey to the indian burial ground while Trout Ohtani (also hurt a lot) were healthy we’d have made the play offs.

And no. No team in the MLB carries enough depth to overcome some of the shit injury years we had. And yes. Arte did go out and hire the training staff from the Braves to try and address the boo boos.

We probably would have still lost out to the Astros most of the last 10 years but it would have been competitive.

On top of that, there are some truly crap owners that have had really good teams. It’s never all that much on the owner.

Last edited 1 month ago by gitchogritchoffmypettis
ihearhowie3.0
Super Member
1 month ago

Competing is good even if Arte has no intention to sell the team.

Saying you’re going to compete to possibly increase value of the team for a sale is also good.

I am going to be optimistic about this until we sign Pete Alonso for 12 years.

Last edited 1 month ago by ihearhowie3.0
Fansince1971
Legend
1 month ago
Reply to  ihearhowie3.0

He has been saying the same thing every season. It’s his sales pitch. I can understand wanting to be optimistic but would expect some degree of being guarded or cautious in that optimism.

Biggiswrth
Trusted Member
1 month ago
Reply to  ihearhowie3.0

I’m in this boat as well. Arte is a businessman first and if he can increase the perceived value more, then he has a better chance of selling higher than the floor the franchise is currently at.
I”ll be optimistic until we sign Goldschmidt for 10 years

Roy Hobbs
Super Member
1 month ago
Reply to  ihearhowie3.0

They’re not close to competing now, and he isn’t planning on spending the money it would take, assuming the players were available. As mentioned before, even without trading Rengifo and Ward, which is required to move forward, they have 5 position players that should be on the field on a contending team. That means they need to add 4 position players not currently on their roster, and they have to be good. 3 for those of you who believe Schanuel will become something he hasn’t demonstrated yet, and 2 of them have to be legitimate middle of the order bats, and the other possibly a lead off hitter. This is without even addressing the pitching.

Even under the most optimistic circumstances where Schanuel develops into something more and Moore shows up on fire, you would still need a 3B and a RF who were both middle of the order bats. And, they would both have to be available. The odds just keep getting higher and higher.

They won 63 games this year and no more than 73 the last 3. Just being realistic. The problem is that we don’t have stars that need supplemental players anymore, we have supplemental players that need stars.

halofansince1978
Super Member
1 month ago

I wonder where Kiyotchan is posting because you know he is posting somewhere.

steelgolf
Legend
1 month ago

Dodgers fan site

halofansince1978
Super Member
1 month ago
Reply to  steelgolf

Which one?

steelgolf
Legend
1 month ago

Not sure, but I know he said that was where he was going.

Senator_John_Blutarsky
Legend

He visits us (CtPG) when the Ohtani’s are playing the Angels

UndraftedProspect
Member
1 month ago

My interpretation of Arte’s annual reference to “competitive” is that the team will not embark on a rebuild or intentional tank, nothing more. The result will likely be the same sub-500 baseball as every year since I moved to OC. If lighting strikes and this is that rare year that .500 gets a team a shot at the wild card maybe the Angels have a chance. My optimism is a bit more limited than that.

TrojanBoiler
Trusted Member
1 month ago

I love that Arte was able to reset the floor to new lows this year. So now when he says competitive it just means 90 losses instead of 99.

DowningDude
Legend
1 month ago
Reply to  TrojanBoiler

YES WE CAN!

halofansince1978
Super Member
1 month ago

It’s no surprise to anybody when latrine fans act like thugs.

Senator_John_Blutarsky
Legend

Arte must think all Angel fans are idiots, or his definition of the team being “competitive” is radically different than the dictionary. Maybe he meant “competitive for drafting #1 overall” in 2025?

The team is not one or two “average” players away from being competitive in 2025, it’s six or seven above average players away. Payroll would have to go north of $250m a year while paying Trout and Rendon nearly $75m annually.

Arte will never do that. He wouldn’t even do it when he had a younger Trout and Ohtani on roster, and that was a time he really could have built a winner.

The public declaration of “being competitive in 2025” is nothing more than a not-so-subtle way of trying to sell season tickets for what is likely to be another 90 loss season.

If Arte is really serious about the team being competitive in 2025, give the fans a “money back guarantee” to refund unused season tickets if the team is not competitive.

Ya right.

Fansince1971
Legend
1 month ago

Arte is a modern day PT Barnum. I’m convinced he believes a sucker is born every minute.

If you are still buying the ‘competitive’ b.s. or buying season tickets, you are a sucker.

Last edited 1 month ago by Fansince1971
RexFregosi
Super Member
1 month ago
Reply to  Fansince1971

Arte is no where near the man PT Barnum was.
Barnum built something and Arte is a destroyer.

clover_black
Super Member
1 month ago

39k fans on the last Saturday game.

Arte can do whatever he wants

Senator_John_Blutarsky
Legend
Reply to  clover_black

Exhibit A (39k fans in attendance) in why Arte feels like he’s doing a great job leading the Angels, and why anyone complaining about 10+ years of abject failure is “the minority” from Arte’s perspective.

Last edited 1 month ago by Senator_John_Blutarsky
Fansince1971
Legend
1 month ago

And I suspect his henchmen always tell him he is a genius.

Last edited 1 month ago by Fansince1971
JackFrost
Super Member
1 month ago
Reply to  clover_black

Except he doesn’t get that same 39k he gets on Saturday night when he plays the Twins or White Sox on a weeknight. The large majority of those 39 thousand fans for Saturday night are there for a weekend social event, to drink and talk to their friends. The game is just something happening in the background for alot of those folks. That is just the way it is at the Big A.

I have been saying this for years. Those large crowds are not “baseball fans.” Of course Arte doesn’t care either way, their money is still green. But let’s not kid ourselves about the reason people are there..

Last edited 1 month ago by JackFrost
clover_black
Super Member
1 month ago
Reply to  JackFrost

average attendance was (almost) 32K for the season.

arte is doing just fine.

Last edited 1 month ago by clover_black
DaveChalk
Trusted Member
1 month ago
Reply to  clover_black

Just mind boggling to me but then again the Rockies draw very well too and when was last time you thought they had a real contender.

clover_black
Super Member
1 month ago
Reply to  DaveChalk

i did 2 games this year, didn’t pay for the tix, but Arte got me on the beer.

the one thing i’ll continue to do is spring training just because its a fun experience… and the depression of the season hasn’t hit yet.

DowningDude
Legend
1 month ago
Reply to  clover_black

Spring Training is the biggest ticketing scam out there. It’s like double-priced usual “cheap” ticket prices for watching even scrubbier scrubs than they threw out there the last week of the 2024 season.

clover_black
Super Member
1 month ago
Reply to  DowningDude

come for the trout, stay for the stefanic.

but yeah ticket prices have soared from what they were back in the day.

RexFregosi
Super Member
1 month ago
Reply to  clover_black

last spring i was up around Tempe Diablo for about 10 days in February and saw plenty of Angels baseball (couple hours/day watching practices) and a lot more interaction of players than you’d get at a game.

I spent all total for my 2024 Spring fix of Angels baseball = $0.00

red floyd
Legend
1 month ago
Reply to  RexFregosi

I thought the lower fields were closed last year.

JackFrost
Super Member
1 month ago
Reply to  clover_black

Not saying he isn’t doing fine. But what is happening is that he is getting really good numbers for weekend series and not so good (Dodgers, Yankees and Red Sox excepted) attendance for weekday games/series.

I believe it is related to the phenomenon I described.

Last edited 1 month ago by JackFrost
PedroCerrano
Super Member
1 month ago
Reply to  clover_black

Arte doing fine while he completely mismanages the team is the biggest reason for my complete disillusionment with the situation.

At least with the majority of the other failing sports franchises historically there was an economic price to pay. Arte makes operating profit every year and has built generational wealth with the increase in the team valuation.

gitchogritchoffmypettis
Legend
Reply to  PedroCerrano

He is losing money though. Not as much as some of the sad sacks may wish for, but he’s certainly seeing revenue from a lot of streams drop off as the team sucks and has no ohtani. And I’m sure he cares, cause it’s money they could make but don’t.

In the long run, for us, it’s what I want. I don’t want the teams revenue to starve, but I want them to lose enough cash to be unhappy about it.

gitchogritchoffmypettis
Legend

If you’re a sports fan who roots for a team that looks horrible and just had a total portapoty fire of a season and you are reacting to an owner saying they plan to compete the next year you are, indeed, an idiot.

What owner doesn’t say this?

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