LA Angels Wednesday News Crash: Bullpen Good?

Good morning Angels fans! No baseball this morning, but we do have some links!

Angels News

Angels won yesterday, thanks in large part due to the bullpen not sucking. Wait, what, is that even possible? Yes. Yes it is.

It was also because Anthony Rendon is quietly not being completely terrible. It isn’t millions of dollars value, but 3 saac flies is… something.

Oh and David Fletcher was officially outrighted to AAA. No one made a waiver claim. Hope he re-finds his swing.

When will Ohtani pitch? Jeff Fletcher seems to have made some guesses.

Around Baseball

Clayton Kershaw has his 200th win. That will be a rare sight going forward.

Detroit over Cleveland yesterday was the fastest 9 inning game since the imperfect game. Most blockbusters are longer than that!

Young arms are getting locked up, even in Cincinnati. Hunter Greene 6/33M.

How lucky are MLB offenses this year?

MEDIOCRE

Atlantic League is again experimenting with rules. Designated runner?!

Jeffery Springs to have Tommy John surgery. TB will bring up someone better, they always do.

The A’s pitching is super bad. Which is why they called up their top prospect… a hitter.

Anything I missed? Post below for upvotes!

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JackFrost
Super Member
10 months ago

Ugggh.

Just saw that Thaiss is starting at catcher today.

Automatic loss for the Angels.

Perry is a slow learner. Very slow.

Last edited 10 months ago by JackFrost
steelgolf
Super Member
10 months ago
Reply to  JackFrost

Really? You know the Yankees are going to try and bait him into more interference calls.

DowningDude
Legend
10 months ago
Reply to  JackFrost

Headline tomorrow: “Matt Thaiss – first Angels catcher to go 6-for-6 and catch a CGSO”

JackFrost
Super Member
10 months ago
Reply to  DowningDude

😂 😂

Hey, if that actually happens I will be the first person to say I was wrong, lol.

Last edited 10 months ago by JackFrost
LanaBanana
Super Member
10 months ago
Reply to  JackFrost

You probably won’t be the first lol.

jco
Trusted Member
jco
10 months ago
Reply to  JackFrost

I get it, but catchers don’t play everyday. O’Hoppe needs some days off. I would prefer to get Stassi back to take those games (at least his defense isn’t disastrous).

JackFrost
Super Member
10 months ago
Reply to  jco

Agree. Stassi would be great.

Problem is we have no idea what is going on with him… It’s something “personal” right? I mean, that could be literally a thousand things… Who knows how long he’ll be out …

Better to bring in a veteran catcher for the time being instead of hemorrhaging losses with Thaiss behind the plate.

Last edited 10 months ago by JackFrost
BruinsAngelsKings
Trusted Member
10 months ago
Reply to  JackFrost

Hemorrhaging losses? Automatic loss? He’s appeared in 4 games this season and the Angels are 2-2 in those 4 games. Not exactly guaranteed losses or hemorrhaging losses. Exaggerate much?

Let me guess, you think Rendon sucks as well?

thaiss-stats-20230419.png
gitchogritchoffmypettis
Legend
10 months ago

“I see with my eyes and then I bluster with my keyboard. Agree!”

2GA2Join
Super Member
10 months ago

Did I see that the Dodgers just lost Rojas to the IL, and need more infield?
Maybe they’ll take Rengifo from us?

Get them to send over Pages to us.

WallyChuckChili
Legend
10 months ago
Reply to  2GA2Join

We do have a lot of practice turning Pages.

gitchogritchoffmypettis
Legend
10 months ago
Reply to  2GA2Join

I’d love that. amen.

red floyd
Legend
10 months ago

I want to return to the mid-2000s when the MFY were our bitches

steelgolf
Super Member
10 months ago
Reply to  red floyd

Seems like the 80s and 90s also. Even when The Angels were really bad, they would somehow beat The Yankees.

JackFrost
Super Member
10 months ago
Reply to  steelgolf

True. I remember a sweep of a 3 game set at Yankees Stadium around 92′ or 93′ that shocked me at the time …

The same thing happened again in 98′ or 99′ I think.

Last edited 10 months ago by JackFrost
Cowboy26
Legend
10 months ago
Reply to  JackFrost

in 99 we were 4-1 at Skankee stadium including a 3 game sweep in our first road trip there.

MarineLayer
Super Member
10 months ago
Reply to  steelgolf

And of course we beat them in 2002 playoffs.

SC_Halo
Trusted Member
10 months ago
Reply to  MarineLayer

And 2005

Mia
Legend
Mia
10 months ago
Reply to  red floyd

Better days…

Eric_in_Portland
Legend
10 months ago

Marsh Watch 2023: Just homered. Now at .370.

Thor Watch 2023: 0-2, 5.63 ERA

Janson Junk Watch 2023: 0-1, 7.71

PedroCerrano
Super Member
10 months ago

Good to see. I still believe that he needed a change as he was really scuffling with this group of coaches. I’m not saying Philly has any magic but he was pretty lost and perhaps just needed to hear some different voices.

BruinsAngelsKings
Trusted Member
10 months ago
Reply to  PedroCerrano

Didn’t we change the hitting coaches from last season to this season?

gitchogritchoffmypettis
Legend
10 months ago

Yes.

Senator_John_Blutarsky
Legend
10 months ago

We could have had Marsh with Quero as the backstop……

gitchogritchoffmypettis
Legend
10 months ago

And no Renfroe…..

Cowboy26
Legend
10 months ago

Quero? You mean in 2025?

grichmanpoorman
Trusted Member
10 months ago

Edgar Quero is crushing it as a 20-year-old in AA… which means he’s near-MLB-ready by Perrymetrics. So… do you move him to new poz? Move O’Hoppe? Trade one?
https://www.milb.com/gameday/shuckers-vs-trash-pandas/2023/04/18/720942#game_state=final,lock_state=final,game_tab=box,game=720942

Fansince1971
Legend
10 months ago

No possible way you move O’Hoppe.

What a nice problem to have. Both Quero and O’Hoppe need to play nearly every day. So Quero stays and plays at AA for this season and O’Hoppe stays and plays with the big club unless he gets injured. Then calling up Quero is in the discussion.

Last edited 10 months ago by Fansince1971
grichmanpoorman
Trusted Member
10 months ago
Reply to  Fansince1971

Yeah, no particularly rush to rush Quero… but that’s my point: He’s pressing the issue. What if he gets promoted to AAA and continues to hit and O’Hoppe stays healthy? You can’t let an elite prospect languish in the minors too long. At this point, the Halos must have a sense of where they’d play Quero alternately if his bat is too good to keep in the minors…

PedroCerrano
Super Member
10 months ago

Plus he’s already the youngest player in AA.

gitchogritchoffmypettis
Legend
10 months ago

Letting him stay in the minors (and likely work on his actual catching skills) is not Languishing if he still comes up at age 21-22.

jco
Trusted Member
jco
10 months ago

I hope he pushes the issue, but let’s see what 200-300 PAs above low A ball look like first.

grichmanpoorman
Trusted Member
10 months ago

Agreed! The scenario I’m imagining is… Quero has just finished his age-22 season with a .900 OPS in AAA. O’Hoppe is an All-Star or close to one. This is not an exotic/outlandish scenario. And if it plays out, seems likely the Halos will, at some point in that season, try Quero somewhere else on the field to make it easier for him to get ABs with the big club. Or explore trade options. Maybe the more interesting question is: If the Angels are contending in 2-3 months, and O’Hoppe is still performing, and someone like Luis Castillo becomes available on the trade market (i.e. young, controllable 1B ace), do you think about dealing Quero? I don’t know how interesting that question really is, but this is what we do here yes?

gitchogritchoffmypettis
Legend
10 months ago

There is a very good chance we deal Quero if we try to land a good player in trade.

FungoAle
Super Member
10 months ago

Lets both of these catchers build up the reputation and gain value.

Cowboy26
Legend
10 months ago

Quero’s a recently turned 20 year old catcher with developing defensive skills with a whopping 39 PAs above low A ball. I think You guys are nuts to even consider moving him up at this juncture or stunt his development as a Catcher by forcing him into another position just because you have a potential ROY behind the plate at the big league.
Let the kid develop. In fact I suggest y’all watch the RC feeds and tell me truthfully if hes ready to catch big league pitching anytime soon.

Jeff Joiner
Editor
Legend
10 months ago

I think this team is 2 bullpen arms away from being really good. There aren’t enough arms to be able to avoid Loup and Tepera every day like we did yesterday.

I know the IL has spared us from Tepera for now, but we really need those two replaced by decent guys before we blow so many games we’re out of it.

Cowboy26
Legend
10 months ago
Reply to  Jeff Joiner

Tepera was replaced by Wantz who has been good.. Loup could be jettisoned tomorrow for Warren (or someone else) who still hasn’t given up run at AAA. But who are you throwing out on the street for your second bullpen arm right now? If the Angels jettisoned Suarez they could put Tucky D in the rotation but I just dont see that happening (unless they just swap the 2 lefties in their assignments) since they know they would lose Suarez to a team that would probably fix him. And the Angels aren’t getting rid of Tucky D any time soon that guy’s been an unsung hero out of the pen.

That leaves:
Estevez
Quijada
Moore
Herget
Barria

All have performed well lately. Theres really no room at the Inn right now for a second bullpen addition.

GrandpaBaseball
Legend
10 months ago
Reply to  Cowboy26

Warren could be brought up when Tepera returns and released. Tepera will be out of work for 10 minutes and will probably have a decent year for another team, I hope he does well. Loup is also a huge liability but using him is throwing gasoline on a house fire. Then there is Suarez but that a whole other post.

Cowboy26
Legend
10 months ago

So then what happens to Wantz who is taking Tepera’s spot right now? Are you going to send Wantz back to the SL?

JackFrost
Super Member
10 months ago
Reply to  Jeff Joiner

Totally agree Jeff. And we kind of knew this coming into the season… Our batting lineup and depth offensively looked good, and we figured that between Suarez and Canning and maybe Barria that we would have at least one passable 5th starter. It was the pen that was concerning. I also think two solid arms down there would be the number we need. The one thing you left out is a veteran backup catcher who is solid defensively, though I know like me you did mention this previously ..

tanana40
Super Member
10 months ago
Reply to  Jeff Joiner

The emergence of Q as a lefty closer is a great development. Middle relievers can be found on the farm or via trade.

gitchogritchoffmypettis
Legend
10 months ago
Reply to  tanana40

Just so we all know….

2023 Angels bullpen as of now. Ranked #8 in ERA and #6 in WHIP in MLB. Tied for 3rd in least HR allowed.

2GA2Join
Super Member
10 months ago

But that doesn’t fit the narrative that our BP is awful.
You must have left out an important stat or something.
They probably rank #30 in grit.

Twebur
Legend
10 months ago
Reply to  2GA2Join

Rankings are overrated…it should be how we feel.

gitchogritchoffmypettis
Legend
10 months ago
Reply to  Twebur

True dat. They are ranked like 25 on the Lylin Eyes scale and 32 on the I Complain About Baseball Instead of Having to Look at My Life scale. That ICABIHLML is rough…. I Cab Ill Mill…..

DowningDude
Legend
10 months ago

But but but – we have a guy whose name rhymes with Poop

Marcotor
Trusted Member
10 months ago

This can’t be! I read CTPG so this must be FAKE NEWS

red floyd
Legend
10 months ago

What are the rankings without Loup?

AnAngelsFan
Super Member
10 months ago

If I were to guess records based on this chart, I would say TB best record, followed by Brewers, Braves, Cubs, Rangers, with the Dodgers, Angels, Yankees, Twins and Astros, rounding out #6-10. In reality the Angels are #14, the Dodgers tied for #15 and the Astros are even worse.

Looking at the actual standings, the big surprises are the overperforming Blue Jays (11-7) and Marlins (10-8). Those two teams must have done a very good job of winning close games.

Mikeal1st
Trusted Member
10 months ago
Reply to  AnAngelsFan

Does that mean the Angels, Dodgers and Astros have had some bad luck?

AnAngelsFan
Super Member
10 months ago
Reply to  Mikeal1st

Not necessarily. It means they’ve had some close losses combined with bigger wins. Whether their close losses were the result of bad luck can’t be determined from the graph and standings alone.

tanana40
Super Member
10 months ago

Thanks for posting this again with the update. I think this is a fun chart to follow as the season develops.

Fansince1971
Legend
10 months ago

Pinstripe Alley talking trade for Ohtani at trade deadline. That is one place I would hate to see him play.

Looked into the crystal ball this morning. It’s more murky than yesterday so not sure what is going to happen. I was certain they would win yesterday- today not so much. Hopefully Halos get the W.

Guest
10 months ago
Reply to  Fansince1971

The Angels should be nice to Ohtani and trade him to a team on the West Coast. The M’s, Dodgers, Padres all have post season dreams and prospects aplenty.

JackFrost
Super Member
10 months ago
Reply to 

Arte has already said the Angels will not trade Shohei if they are in the race. At least for the time being it is premature to talk about trading Ohtani.

halofansince1978
Super Member
10 months ago
Reply to  JackFrost

Agree…he’s not going anywhere.

Artre isn’t giving up the cash cow.

Bullpen has been better…we will see.

gitchogritchoffmypettis
Legend
10 months ago
Reply to  JackFrost

But… season doomed?…. same thing we have seen for ehks seasons in a row?…. Arte, exists?…. concerned?…. hopeless?…. so trade right?

Mikeal1st
Trusted Member
10 months ago

Aside from a curse, it would be best for an out of contention Angels.

Marcotor
Trusted Member
10 months ago

I saw Ohtani frown yesterday, so bad things are coming

DowningDude
Legend
10 months ago
Reply to  Fansince1971

Ah, but we NEED the Yankees to be in the conversation to shill up the prospects bidding.

matthiasstephan
Super Member
10 months ago
Reply to  Fansince1971

He could have gone to NY when he came over. I don’t see why it is a better lure for him now.

smithy610
Super Member
10 months ago

According to Fletcher’s book, the Yankees were his first rejection, and he didn’t even give them a reason why. Just “no.”

GrandpaBaseball
Legend
10 months ago
Reply to  Fansince1971

“8” Balls work better than crystal balls, when kicked around they don’t break as easy

Guest
10 months ago

The Hyundai key to the game today for the Halos is the “Bang Your Head, It’s a Celebration” mashup by Kool and the Quiet Riot Gang.

Two wins in a row, over the Bostons and then the Yankers, is cause for celebration and triumphant head-banging. Renfroe and Ohtani mashing the homers, the defense making all the right moves, the bullpen showing up and setting ‘em down. Hopefully Canning can give the pen a breather this time though, and how about a Trout HR? He’s due and has been hitting the cork out of the ball lately.

https://youtu.be/OewLpY6gVd4

Last edited 10 months ago by GhostGuest
Guest
10 months ago
Reply to 

In this video, Kool and the Gang are hip to the zeitgeist by rocking their Taylor “White Shoes Johnson” Ward footwear.

Cowboy26
Legend
10 months ago
Reply to 

Why do all of Kool’s songs sound the same?

Jeff Joiner
Editor
Legend
10 months ago
Reply to  Cowboy26

I love those old school bands with horn sections. I saw Earth, Wind, and Fire when I was 19 and they were incredible musicians. An entire stage full of them.

Fansince1971
Legend
10 months ago
Reply to  Jeff Joiner

Chicago says “hi”.

tanana40
Super Member
10 months ago
Reply to  Fansince1971

and James Brown’s band.

JackFrost
Super Member
10 months ago
Reply to  tanana40

His band is better than all of those other people ..

tanana40
Super Member
10 months ago
Reply to  JackFrost

I could listen to this song all day just for the horns.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U5TqIdff_DQ

Guest
10 months ago
Reply to  tanana40

Or the classic twin guitar attack.

https://youtu.be/Hrj_uCWxp5Y

red floyd
Legend
10 months ago
Reply to  Jeff Joiner

Kool & the gang
EWF
Chicago

red floyd
Legend
10 months ago
Reply to  red floyd

Actually, any of the funk bands from the late 60s early 70s

gitchogritchoffmypettis
Legend
10 months ago
Reply to  red floyd

Tower of Power = Best horn section.

Guest
10 months ago

Nothing is more monumentally cinematic than a trumpet in a rock song, like in Love’s “Alone Again Or” and Phoebe Bridgers’ “I Know the End.”

WallyChuckChili
Legend
Twebur
Legend
10 months ago

Someone from here posted this in the past

IMG_1233.jpeg
gitchogritchoffmypettis
Legend
10 months ago
Reply to 

I love all these mash ups so much…. teamwork…. AMERICA!

Twebur
Legend
10 months ago

It’s like Chuck Mangione and Kenny G got together and had a baby

red floyd
Legend
10 months ago
Reply to  Twebur

Mangione can be badass. OK, not necessarily him, but his music can be played badass.

(Google for “1976 Blue Devils” and look for their rendition of “Legend of the One Eyed Sailor”).

Last edited 10 months ago by red floyd
JackFrost
Super Member
10 months ago

I don’t think Perry and Co. are doing a very good job of scheduling Ohtani’s starts.. I know the rain in Boston was not their doing, however, because of it a variety of options opened up. Shohei only threw a couple of innings, so in theory they could have come back with him earlier than originally intended, or kept him on his regular schedule.. I think smart GM’s, managers and pitching coaches will strategically tweak their rotations and starting schedule to optimize matchups and place their best pitchers in key spots of the schedule.

It seems that the Angels consistently do NOT do this… I noticed it last year with Shohei and they’re doing it again this year. For example, it now looks like he is set to start the first game of the next homestand vs the Royals. In theory I don’t mind this ; it is indeed important to win the first game of a three game set since the team winning that first game takes the series on most occasions. However, this then lines Ohtani up to face the weak hitting A’s on April 27th. If there is a team in MLB that we can beat without pitching Shohei, it is surely the A’s… Holding him back until Sat. or Sun. vs KC would allow him to open the series in Milwaukee against a really good Brewers team. It will be hard to win vs Milwaukee no matter who we start, but to run out Anderson and Detmers in the first two games against Miley and Burnes is asking to go down 0-2 in that series and then face a sweep on Sunday with Suarez pitching. It would be much better to start Shohei at Mil. on 2/28 instead of vs the A’s.

Further, by starting Ohtani in Milwaukee he would then line up to be able to face the Rangers in what will be the biggest series in the first month plus of 2023. Having him start the first game against Texas just makes too much sense. So of course the Angels brass will NOT do this. Instead he’ll line up to pitch the last game in St. Louis and then miss the Rangers series at home. It just seems that Perry is inexcusably stupid when he fails to see these relatively simple and important strategic moves.

Last edited 10 months ago by JackFrost
DMAGZ13
Trusted Member
10 months ago
Reply to  JackFrost

The Dodgers have done this for over a decade with Kershaw. He literally has feasted on the DBacks, Rockies, bad Giants/Padres teams for years while avoiding major teams if possible. I think it’s a bit of an overreaction to say Perry should be tweaking Shohei’s never-been-done-before schedule. Ultimately you have to keep him healthy.

JackFrost
Super Member
10 months ago
Reply to  DMAGZ13

Nothing I am suggesting is risking his health. I am suggesting pitching him LATER than planned, not earlier… Pitching a day later than what Perry currently has the benefit of both potentially helping us in the standings by avoiding losses to good teams, and ALSO giving Shohei extra rest. You have it backwards DMAGZ. My plan is beneficial to Shohei by giving him more rest, not less..

JackFrost
Super Member
10 months ago
Reply to  DMAGZ13

DD, why in the hell did you rec his comment? It makes no sense.

Saying my proposal is an “overreaction” indicates a total lack of critical thinking skills and/or insight. BTW, the schedule has already been tweaked so I am not suggesting doing something totally different than what they’re already doing. I am simply saying they should make those changes to help us win instead of hurting our chances.

Last edited 10 months ago by JackFrost
RexFregosi
Super Member
10 months ago
Reply to  JackFrost

this is the kind of thing you do at the end of the season, not now.

Just roll them out there now as makes sense physically.

too many other variables and too early for pinpointing each Ohtani start. It’s easy to imagine another rain out and we have an entire staff to win the division over next 140+ games

JackFrost
Super Member
10 months ago
Reply to  RexFregosi

Totally disagree. Since we don’t play the division rivals as many times as in prior years the head to head matchups become even MORE important than usual… They were always important in a tight race, representing 2 games in the standings, but NOW they are even more so…

That Texas series in early May is HUGE. Plus there is the psychological standpoint of making a statement against them and establishing the fact you can beat them head to head — that is no small think either.

I think you are pretty clearly wrong here Rex.

Last edited 10 months ago by JackFrost
DowningDude
Legend
10 months ago
Reply to  JackFrost

RE-F’ing-LAX BRUH. I rec’d “keep him healthy ” which is a no-brainer

JackFrost
Super Member
10 months ago
Reply to  DowningDude

Ha ha ha. Like I said “it makes no sense.” Read my follow-up. In my scenario Shohei gets MORE rest.

Think before you rec.

DowningDude
Legend
10 months ago
Reply to  JackFrost

Cool. You win the internetz every time 🏳

gitchogritchoffmypettis
Legend
10 months ago
Reply to  DowningDude

Yeah man. You’ve been rec policed!

WallyChuckChili
Legend
10 months ago

I don’t reckon he’ll be rec’n around these parts no more

DowningDude
Legend
10 months ago

Currently doing 5 in Rec Penetentiary

clover_black
Super Member
10 months ago
Reply to  DowningDude

LMFAO i just realized you can see who recd your messages.

i thought i was anonymous w/ my rec’s of 2002heaven.

DowningDude
Legend
10 months ago
Reply to  clover_black

Hello there “guest”

Jeff Joiner
Editor
Legend
10 months ago
Reply to  JackFrost

This is a good idea. Who pitches Friday in your scenario?

Also, I see an IL stint on the horizon for Suarez. Only way to get him off the active roster. Plus an IL stint can be followed up with a rehab assignment or two in the minors.

gitchogritchoffmypettis
Legend
10 months ago
Reply to  Jeff Joiner

I think that, as soon as several MiLB arms have ramped up to 100 pitches, Suarez’s job is in trouble. Kind of like Loup once there are enough pen arms going back to back days. I’m sure PTP will do the “keep him on the roster” dance if he can, but I doubt he’s going to stress over Suarez getting picked up by the Tigers all that much as long as he has other pitchers.

Call me crazy, but I actually wish Loup would take a AAA assignment. His pitches actually look better than last year and I think that if he could just get a few “safe” outings in against some hitters he might have some value still. We just can’t have him doing that with a runner on 2nd and him needing to throw 18 of 20 pitches well for the hold. He is a top candidate for a “oach! my thingy is enflamed!” injury and rehab assignment for a couple weeks. Strained eyelid….

JackFrost
Super Member
10 months ago
Reply to  Jeff Joiner

If you are talking about the Royals game there would be several options; maybe start Tucker. If one is concerned about him not having been stretched out you could make him an “Opener” and make the game a bullpen game for innings 4 or 5 onwards… In this scenario everyone else only gets moved back one day and Shohei on Saturday allows him to pitch against Milwaukee AND Texas.

Last edited 10 months ago by JackFrost
Twebur
Legend
10 months ago
Reply to  Jeff Joiner

Was surprised, Suarez was sent down to SL 4 times last year.

Cowboy26
Legend
10 months ago
Reply to  JackFrost

Hey Jack despite your rantings apparently, Fletcher doesn’t think Perry is a complete blithering idiot.

https://twitter.com/JeffFletcherOCR/status/1648715282997813250

oh and then there’s this.

https://twitter.com/JeffFletcherOCR/status/1648716235146665986

I’m glad someone is being analytical here instead just trying find things to bitch about.

Last edited 10 months ago by Cowboy26
gitchogritchoffmypettis
Legend
10 months ago
Reply to  Cowboy26

Constant need to criticize something Vs actual critical thinking ability = shut up and agree with me.

JackFrost
Super Member
10 months ago
Reply to  Cowboy26

Did Fletcher switch it ? The original tweet showed him NOT pitching against Texas… If he does then my critique is not as harsh..

The “squeezing” an extra start out of him is not important if there is a game we can pretty confidently win without him — as I stated that would be the Oakland game on 4/27. Let somebody else pitch that game and start Shohei on 4/28 in Milwaukee against the stud Miley. The way it stands now we are getting killed in the matchups those first two in Milwaukee. IF that stays the same mark my words, WE WILL GET SWEPT IN MILWAUKEE… Then I can laugh at all of you for defending this current plan when that happens…

My idea makes alot more sense because there are TWO or THREE good reasons to do it, one of which is extra rest. I think the most important is that Shohei would be able to start the Texas series which will be huge, with each game essentially representing 2 games in the standings with the team we are chasing. With all the other good AL teams it is likely that only one playoff team comes out of the West, the Division winner. That makes it all the more important to keep pace with the Rangers and stay ahead of the Astros early.

Last edited 10 months ago by JackFrost
AnAngelsFan
Super Member
10 months ago
Reply to  JackFrost

Actually, your plan also has the same benefit that Fletcher noticed. Keeping Ohtani on Sunday puts him starting 4/29, 5/5 and 5/11 (an off day), but moving him to Saturday like you suggest lines him up for 4/28, 5/4 and 5/10, so it also avoids the off day while having him pitch against the Brewers instead of the A’s.

JackFrost
Super Member
10 months ago
Reply to  AnAngelsFan

Yep, the 4/29 and 5/5 is what I am looking for …

Cowboy26
Legend
10 months ago
Reply to  JackFrost

The “squeezing” an extra start out of him is not important if there is a game we can pretty confidently win without him 

Sorry Jack but hes your ace who is far and away better than any other starter we have but pitches on schedule unique to only him. No game (or opponent should be taken for granted It would be irresponsible to not take advantage of this rain out and manipulate your schedule to get him an extra start,

What if later theres an another rain out? or Ohtani gets pushed back because of a blister or because Eppei’s mom is in town? Then you may lose 2 potential starts from Ohtani just because you tried to control something that you have no control over

You make hay while the sunshine shines and take advantage of every potential opportunity you can to start him despite the disadvantage you have due to the additional day of 5 rest between starts.

I cant be believe this is even debatable. Thank God you’re not running the Angels.

JackFrost
Super Member
10 months ago
Reply to  Cowboy26

This is a VERY simplistic view Cowboy. Just getting one extra start over the course of a full season is more important than not getting swept in Milwaukee? Is it more important than not losing 2 out of 3 to Texas ? Or God forbid BOTH those things happen, get swept by the Brewers AND lose 2 out of 3 to Texas..

That could represent this season’s downward spiral. Management should not be so casual about matchups. Good teams aren’t.

It is about priorities Cowboy. If I were running the Angels they would be the Angels WINNING and making the playoffs, NOT Arte making more money through increased ticket sales !

Last edited 10 months ago by JackFrost
gitchogritchoffmypettis
Legend
10 months ago
Reply to  JackFrost

This all seems like much a poo about nothing and a very low hill to die on.

JackFrost
Super Member
10 months ago

That’s your opinion.

I don’t see it that way.

Last edited 10 months ago by JackFrost
cookmeister
Trusted Member
10 months ago
Reply to  JackFrost

they have to keep in mind what Shohei wants/needs as far as recovery. for all we know, they wanted him to start earlier and he said he wasn’t comfortable doing that.

AnAngelsFan
Super Member
10 months ago
Reply to  cookmeister

He is starting early. His next start should be Sunday and is being moved up 2 days to Friday. Jack is suggesting they instead move it up 1 day to Saturday (or to keep him on Sunday).

JackFrost
Super Member
10 months ago
Reply to  cookmeister

Yes, it is possible that Shohei requested pitching earlier rather than later. My guess however is that is not what happened..I mean, with the prior 6 man rotation he was getting more rest, not less, so it stands to reason that he likes the extra rest. It also would makes sense in terms of protecting him physically from an org standpoint.. And then there are the competitive issues I mentioned… Really, everything points to my plan/idea being the ideal one, not starting him Friday vs Royals and Thur. 4/27 vs Oakland… Actually, it smells like it could be financially motivated as Arte might like to get the extra ticket income from the A’s game that he would not get with Shohei not pitching. This would be unforgivable as it means Arte would be putting a few extra dollars ahead of winning games. For a billionaire that is not a good look…

Last edited 10 months ago by JackFrost
AnAngelsFan
Super Member
10 months ago
Reply to  JackFrost

I’ll add to the Arte conspiracy theory — 4/22 is Ohtani shirt day, so you don’t need Ohtani starting to draw his fans to that game. By starting Ohtani on 4/21, Arte can sell tickets to Ohtani fans on 4/21, 4/22 and 4/27.

JackFrost
Super Member
10 months ago
Reply to  AnAngelsFan

Yeah, makes sense. If Arte suggested this then Perry would of course be off the hook. But not following the plan I laid out just makes ZERO sense in terms of winning games and competing in our division.

Last edited 10 months ago by JackFrost
gitchogritchoffmypettis
Legend
10 months ago
Reply to  AnAngelsFan

Andrew. Curse his black soul!

cookmeister
Trusted Member
10 months ago
Reply to  JackFrost

my mistake, my reading comprehension sucks. I’ve been seeing the argument he should pitch thursday too much

WallyChuckChili
Legend
10 months ago
Reply to  cookmeister

If the Angels are serious about winning.

He should pitch everyday!

AnAngelsFan
Super Member
10 months ago

Rendon had an RBI single, scored a run by running hard, and a sac fly yesterday. Seriously, why hasn’t this guy been DFA’d yet?

MarineLayer
Super Member
10 months ago
Reply to  AnAngelsFan

Totally worth $245 million. I love his zero homers as a cleanup hitter.

Fansince1971
Legend
10 months ago
Reply to  MarineLayer

Yeah I think the point is he is at least starting to show some production above replacement level. I totally agree it’s a crappy contract but the Angels are stuck with it. So it’s nice to at least get some value even though it’s far from full value.

Senator_John_Blutarsky
Legend
10 months ago
Reply to  Fansince1971

…until he beats up a fan or usher for looking at him wrong.

Fansince1971
Legend
10 months ago

Right – that sucked.

But currently he is not totally useless.

MarineLayer
Super Member
10 months ago
Reply to  Fansince1971

That’s a super low bar. And as a Senator said, he hasn’t taken a swing at anybody in the last couple of weeks.

Fansince1971
Legend
10 months ago
Reply to  MarineLayer

Compared to the last two seasons “not total useless” or “above replacement value” is a high bar.

Dogface1956
Trusted Member
10 months ago

I know that Rendon screwed up in Oakland, but he does not have a history of fighting with fans, this was the first time as far as I know. It’s not like he is Albert Bell.

So there is no reason to believe he is going to grab another fan, yes he has been fragile, yes his power numbers have not been great, yes he has made some bad throws, but I really don’t think we have to worry about his losing his temper with a fan.

gitchogritchoffmypettis
Legend
10 months ago

“He has shown a terrifying willingness to physically confront drunken asshole A’ss fans and the Seattle Mariners!”

Um, yeah, when do we get to the part where he’s doing something bad?

AnAngelsFan
Super Member
10 months ago

When he deliberately stomps on someone’s chest/ribs, causing a sternum contusion.

gitchogritchoffmypettis
Legend
10 months ago
Reply to  AnAngelsFan

?

Cowboy26
Legend
10 months ago

Draymond Green reference. I guess it makes sense since the Angels wore a Warriors straw hat in that first road trip to Oakland.

gitchogritchoffmypettis
Legend
10 months ago
Reply to  Cowboy26

Ahh… I try to play like the Warriors don’t exist.

AnAngelsFan
Super Member
10 months ago
Reply to  Cowboy26

I’m in Northern California, so it is all over the news. Sometimes I forget it’s a different world up here.

Senator_John_Blutarsky
Legend
10 months ago

My only issue with the extra-curricular activities was that he got suspended.

The team needs him on the field.

AnAngelsFan
Super Member
10 months ago
Reply to  Fansince1971

While Rendon is at 0 WAR, that’s entirely because of defensive metrics. Put simply, defensive metrics are crap: Advanced defensive metrics are flawed measure of baseball | The Kansas City Star

Even if you do put faith in defensive metrics, they are more susceptible to sample size and require multiple years worth of data, whereas offensive stats are generally considered more accurate based on a single season of 600 PAs.

Rendon is the 5th best hitter on the Angels this season (sample size issues) and the 4th best hitter among current Angels with more than 600 PAs in the past 3 years.

gitchogritchoffmypettis
Legend
10 months ago
Reply to  AnAngelsFan

To be fair, Rendon’s defense has been kind of crap this season… or had lapses. Though this will likely smooth out because Rendon = smooth. If the music of Andres Segovia were a baseball player it would be !RENDON! (clap clap clap).

smithy610
Super Member
10 months ago
Reply to  MarineLayer

He’s never been a cleanup hitter. I mean, his strength has never been power. He’s always been an RBI and an on-base guy. If Nevin wants a typical cleanup hitter, then Rendon shouldn’t be at #4. Ohtani is the one with all the power and so he should be the cleanup. But I also prefer Ohtani get more ABs as possible.

Maybe Renfroe?

Then again, I remember all the gnashing of the teeth when Renfroe couldn’t hit in the first 10 games, and when Rendon was suspended, all the whining that Rendon better be back soon because Renfroe couldn’t hack it at cleanup.

MarineLayer
Super Member
10 months ago
Reply to  smithy610

Rendon makes moresense as a lead off hitter since his main ability seems to be drawing walks. He offers little protection hitting behind Trourt and Ohtani. Renfroe was a great pickup and he makes the most sense as a legitimate cleanup hitter.

AnAngelsFan
Super Member
10 months ago
Reply to  MarineLayer

That’s not a bad idea. While a Rendon double from cleanup should be enough to drive to clear the bases with the fast runners ahead of him, having him on second or first in front of Trouhtani and Renfroe could be even better.

RexFregosi
Super Member
10 months ago
Reply to  smithy610

Pretty sure he’s always been known as Tony Two-Bags, not Round-trip Rendon.

40 doubles and 120 rbis straight ahead

Dig it

smithy610
Super Member
10 months ago
Reply to  RexFregosi

Exactly. Him being penciled at #4 isn’t his fault. Do we want him pressing to hit a HR everytime he’s up to hit and he has people on base? Of course not.

Cowboy26
Legend
10 months ago
Reply to  RexFregosi

he averaged 43 doubles a season for 3 straight seasons at Washington (2017-2019). During his limited playing time the last 3 seasons here hes actually averaged hitting doubles at a little higher frequency than he did during those big years for the Nats.

It’s obvious thats hes not 100% yet with his power shortage but still isdriving in runs and moving runners over when need to. Hes like this years Darin Erstad in that regard who we used oddly enough as a leadoff hitter despite some low .300 OBP seasons.

Last edited 10 months ago by Cowboy26
Jeff Joiner
Editor
Legend
10 months ago
Reply to  smithy610

If we want over the fence power, put Renfroe in cleanup.

However, Ward, Trout, and Ohtani all have wheels so putting a solid contact/OBP guy behind them is fine by me. When Rendon makes contact, they score. If he walks, there’s another runner on for Renfroe.

Cowboy26
Legend
10 months ago
Reply to  Jeff Joiner

How many years did HK47 bat cleanup and thrive even though he wasn’t our primary power guy?

Power sometimes is overrated if you whiff every other time.

gitchogritchoffmypettis
Legend
10 months ago
Reply to  Jeff Joiner

My issue with this issue is that I’m not sure why it’s an issue. When the Angels offense completely sputters and we score nothing has Rendon been the problem? Nope. When we score runs is Rendon usually involved somehow? why yes, yes he is.

If this changes, then it’s an issue. But right now?

AnAngelsFan
Super Member
10 months ago
Reply to  MarineLayer

You don’t DFA a guy because he is overpaid (he’ll still get the money), you DFA him because you can replace him with someone better. Dumping Rendon means more playing time for Lamb, Drury, Thaiss or recalling Fletcher. None of those guys will be close to as productive as Rendon is right now.

And Urshela’s 1 HR in 20 more PAs than Rendon is not a very good case for putting him at cleanup instead.

gitchogritchoffmypettis
Legend
10 months ago
Reply to  AnAngelsFan

Rendon could do 5-6 WAR for the rest of his contract and this guy’s gonna have a personal problem with it. When a guy has this huge a rage boner for a player whose only flaw is he has been hurt (and/or Covid shortened a season) you know it’s the guy with the problem who is the problem.

Rendon could hit 60 home runs and Marine Layer will complain about a lack of stolen bases.

comment image

gitchogritchoffmypettis
Legend
10 months ago
Reply to  MarineLayer

He’s basically the Latino Cool Hand Luke. Just hanging out on a porch smoking a cigarette he’s worth 245M. It’s also becoming clear that he is a leader of men who win games, though not a red faced clown. Generally relaxed, but dangerous to cross. I understand that, if you’re more a fan of the “screaming Eric Hosmer” school, that can be tough to swallow. Add a side order of lumpy, sour, gray envy to the plate…. tough meal.

I feel for you. It’s got to be tough making a daily decision to hate a guy who is awesome and so much better than you in every way. I mean, even when he fails it’s just cause he got hurt, and he makes millions and looks great doing it. Where as you just fail. You have chosen a harrowing path through life.

gitchogritchoffmypettis
Legend
10 months ago
Reply to  AnAngelsFan

I liked that score from 1st base where he looked like a dude who has not had to do that for a couple of years…. look on his face rounding 3rd was like “Jesus, are these bases really all this far apart!?!?”. But he was game and he made it, so good.

ScoopleDoople
Trusted Member
10 months ago

look on his face rounding 3rd was like “Jesus, are these bases really all this far apart!?!?”.  Great line!  😂 

Cowboy26
Legend
10 months ago
Reply to  ScoopleDoople

Actually they’re closer this year so maybe thats why he was able to make it.

GrandpaBaseball
Legend
10 months ago

Good morning to all, a great day in Southern California on tap today, will be made better with a win by our boys tonight. Tomorrow will be a very early game. See you at game time.

RexFregosi
Super Member
10 months ago

Go Kings Go

(I still don’t believe they won Monday)

GrandpaBaseball
Legend
10 months ago

Attendance in MLB is down compared to last season, but it can be saved with a DR. DR, why yes, a DR. Designated Runner will be used for fat slow runners. This one is flat out stupid.

The Angels are anything but consistent so this team can play very good one day and the next day look like a AA team. I would like to believe that the lineup is improving, and that the Bullpen is getting their act together. But the defense is still a concern to me. Rendon is no longer a Gold Glover at 3rd, but he is still reliable there. The Jury is still out on Neto, although he is looking good, just not Simba just yet. At second and first do you find yourself holding your breath on every play? Sure, I do too so, we are surprised when a p-layer like lamb makes a great play at first. No worries with the outfield. Catcher is alright with O’Hoppe and not so good with Thaiss.

I am in the hope mode with Fletcher finding himself and returning as a hit machine, we do know he field.

Just a side note, when Brandon Marsh was here I felt he would turn into a super star within just a few years, his start in Philly is a welcomed sight for this fan.

Cowboy26
Legend
10 months ago

Defense has been the least concerning to me except when Rengifo is out there .

matthiasstephan
Super Member
10 months ago
Reply to  Cowboy26

I have seen a couple of plays where a better 1B would have saved it. Hoping Walsh is back soon – he has become great with the glove there.

ScoopleDoople
Trusted Member
10 months ago

I am hoping for Fletcher too. I remember it seemed that right before he got his big contract he was mini-Vlad, hitting any pitch thrown to where no one was. Then he got the contract and that ended…

ScoopleDoople
Trusted Member
10 months ago

Oh yea, DR seems stupid to me too. I read that and thought “They’re kidding right? A late April Fools joke?”

MarineLayer
Super Member
10 months ago

Rendon’s throwing errors persist. He failed when he attempted a bare handed pick up in the late innings. He looks old and stiff out there.

DowningDude
Legend
10 months ago
Reply to  MarineLayer

🤣
I think you need to change your needle, the record keeps skipping

Cowboy26
Legend
10 months ago
Reply to  MarineLayer

Thats funny ML.

But you’re going to have to do way better than that with your daily unhealthy Obsessive Anti-Rendon Public Service Announcement.

The play you are referencing is ruled a hit because virtually No-one in the whole damn league could have made that play.

Did you see the other defensive plays he was involved in last night? The Line out? The hard hit ground ball? the dribbler down the third base line that he had to charge to get a fast runner? or how about the bases loaded force out at third that he orchestrated with the kid? Does that look like someone who is old and stiff to you? ( wait. stupid question since this obsession you have has totally clouded your judgement while leaving you with zero credibility)

MarineLayer
Super Member
10 months ago
Reply to  Cowboy26

I didn’t see the entire game, but I did see his two throwing errors the other day in Boston. Do you think his arm is healthy. I don’t like the sidearm slings. Good to hear he made a couple plays last night. Personally, I prefer Gino’s defense at third.

I had the same unhealthy obsession with the Russell Westbrook contract, and the instant the Lakers traded him they instantly had the best record in the league ROS. I know there’s no chance we can get anybody to take over Rendon’s contract but you know that as long as Rendon’s contract is on the books, there is zero chance of re-signing Ohtani. The rest of MLB laughs at us, but I guess you’re cool with that.

Cowboy26
Legend
10 months ago
Reply to  MarineLayer

You sure they’re not laughing at you or are they worried you might start a stalking campaign?

gitchogritchoffmypettis
Legend
10 months ago
Reply to  MarineLayer

Your envy banana is showing….

https://imgur.com/account/favorites/8jxNIV2

Twebur
Legend
10 months ago

This a rival to hot dog girl.

gitchogritchoffmypettis
Legend
10 months ago
Reply to  Twebur

It’s kind of scary.

red floyd
Legend
10 months ago

comment image

gitchogritchoffmypettis
Legend
10 months ago

Wow. GPB selling Fletch tickets before he even sets foot on the Bee’s field. Shocking.

Senator_John_Blutarsky
Legend
10 months ago

Bummer for Springs. He is someone easy to root for: 30th round draft pick, kicked around the league for a few years before he found his groove with TB. Hopefully he makes it back after TJS.

halofansince1978
Super Member
10 months ago

Let’s do that again…Halo Power Baby!!