Arte Moreno. He’s not great. Who would you rather have had to live with since 2000?
Oh Arte. It can be hard living with a guy with such awkward social skills in your life. He’s like that guy you live with for a little while who keeps puking in the shower and it annoys you so much that you lose perspective on other things he does, like putting forks away in the slot you think spoons should live in. Eventually you hate the guy cause he breaths wrong.
Then he moves out and you realize that, while the shower barf was a really real problem, everything else was not really hurting you. You realize this because you keep waking up to see your new housemate standing in your open door watching you sleep. And you keep being pretty sure you locked that door….
Arte has some real issues. We’ve been over them 1000 1000 times. But he’s not a housemate. He owns the house. In fact, he owns the whole street. We can live in it or move out. At one point it looked like Arte may sell the place, but apparently he loves the neighborhood and rental income.
So, now that I have lived in Arte’s house for a good long while and it looks like I’m stuck with him, maybe I should take a calm inventory of my situation over the last twenty odd years before I move into my car. How much better off is the next guy really? Should my heart be clogged with envy? Let’s see.
I am using this link here to look at who has the most wins in the MLB since 2000. I am not trying to parse out details here. I don’t care about WHEN these wins happened or who owned the teams at various points. Just who has had a sip at the cup of victory most often these 22 years, cause a winning night is a fun night.
I am also a firm believer in the idea that just about any team can win a title if they can make the playoffs. Here’s a link to every MLB teams playoff record since 2000. If your hearts gonna go to mush every time your guys don’t win the World Series you deserve a life of misery. It’s too much of a crap shoot. But October baseball is great fun and everyone but Mariners fans should enjoy it sometimes.
Then there’s the arbitrary stuff. What would I personally, with all the magnificent wisdom and bronzed American mannishness I embody, have preferred to get stuck rooting for from 2000-2022? This is more of a neighborhood vibe thing than just picking the winningest team. What are a team’s fans like? Who are some of the players I would have had around to root for? Are they better than what I have here? Do I hate the city a team is based in? Do the Dutch have a team? Stadiums may even matter to some of us, though I am playing like I can just magically appear at games, I don’t have to drive 2000 miles. Or maybe you’ve got a broadcaster you love? Who knows? But these things are factors that keep us all from just being Yankees fans.
Finally, obviously, I have to NOT account for the fact that I am a lifelong Angels fan from SoCal. I have to dispassionately rank the Angels accordingly….
So, The top winners in this period are:
The Yankees (2110)
The Dodgers (2041)
The Cardinals (2025)
The Red Sox (1986)
The Braves (1959)
The A’s (1911)
The Angels (1898)
The Giants (1893)
The Guardians (1878)
The Astros (1851)
The top Playoff appearances in this period are:
The Yankees (19)
The Cardinals (16)
The Dodgers (14)
The Braves (14)
The Red Sox (11)
The A’s (11)
The Astros (10)
The Twins (9)
The Rays, Indians, Giants, Cubs (8)
The top Post Season Win % in this period are:
The Yankees (58.3)
The Cardinals (55.9
The Dodgers (56.3
The Red Sox (54.8)
The Braves (54.1)
The A’s (52.8)
The Angels (52.4)
The Giants (52.3)
The Indians (51.8)
The Astros (51.1)
The saddest teams in baseball are:
Marlins (2)
Royals (2)
Mariners (3)
Pirates (3)
Orioles (3)
Blue Jays (4)
Padres (4)
Reds (4)
Rockies (4)
Mets, White Sox, Rangers, D-Backs, Nationals, Tigers (5)
Now for some arbitrary personal stuff:
When I factor in a bunch of personal stuff like regions of the country I like, fanbases that annoy me or who I feel like I’d enjoy being part of , team’s history and all time players I’d have to hear about all the time, who my favorite players over the last 20 years have been, disgraceful crap a team’s been involved with. Some of this matters very little, some more. I guess these would be my favorite teams sans win loss record….
Angels…. and then a pile of Reds, Pirates, Cardinals, Padres, White Sox, Tigers, Rays, Braves and A’s teams. Padres, A’s and Cardinals fans seem to have a great time, I love the Reds, Braves, Cardinals and Pirates past heroes and history, and so on. I also know I can’t be a Dodgers, Yankees or Red Sox fan because I’m not a piece of crap.
Honestly, even if I hadn’t been raised an Angels fan, the team would likely be up there on my list. The 2002 team was right up my ally, I loved Vlad before he was an Angel, same with Torii and Simmons. Trout would likely be one of my top 3 players I root for… history meh, stadium’s fine, fanbase is dinner roll bland, they tend to play teams I hate in the post season, current uniforms and stuff are crap that I don’t wear (I did get a city connect hat from my dad for my birthday, which I like and old school stuff is cool). Yeah, I’d dig the Angels.
But where do the Angels rank for me if I were told to just pick a team today having had no relationship with a team before? Well, here are some neighborhoods I’d look at if shopping for a home….
NOPE, TOO GHETTO: Other than the Reds, Pirates and Padres that entire list of sad teams that rarely made the playoffs. Sure, that one Royals team was fun, or Cutch, or Gwynn…. but generally I’m OK with these teams doing well but don’t care if they win or lose. I don’t need a beach right outside, but I don’t want to live in hopeless squalor either.
NOPE, TOO VERMONT: Vermont is a beautiful state. I have met some nice folks from Vermont. I don’t ever want to live there and I don’t ever want to be a “Vermont Person”. They aren’t bad, just not my thing. Teams like the Brewers, Cubs, Nationals, Mets, Giants and D-Bags. They are there. They are fine. Some people love them. Just not me.
IF THE UNIVERSE DESTROYED THIS PLACE I”D BE SAD BUT I’D GET OVER IT: Mariners, Yankees, Red Sox, Dodgers. I was gonna put the Rangers on here too, but I’m not sure how much they’d bug me if it weren’t for the Angels. They’d likely be like the Diamondbacks to me.
I’d likely look in these neighborhoods: Enough fun, not too pretentious, nice area, not a ghetto, some drawbacks, but it would have been a good 22 years…
The Braves, Phillies, Cardinals, Twins, A’s, Indians, Astros, Tigers
So. If I could pick my team from 2000-2022 from scratch who would it be? Behold my personal ranking….
- Cardinals
- Braves
- Rays
- Reds
- Indians
- Angels
- Pirates
- A’s
- Tigers
- Twins
- Phillies
- Astros
- White Sox
- Padres
- Orioles
- Cubs
- Mets
- Rangers
- Royals
- Brewers
- Nationals
- Blue Jays
- Diamondbacks
- Giants
- Rockies
- Marlins
- Red Sox
- Mariners
- Dodgers
- Yankees
So in the end, for me personally, it was a mix of whether or not my team got it’s day in the sun every now and again, which seems to be all I care about when it comes to ownership, and other personal variables. The one exception is the Twins. I hated Carl Poldad so a lot of those years would have pissed me off as a Twins fan.
Annoyances were a factor though. Barry Bonds, Ken Griffey Jr, Jeetah… these are all players that bugged me long term. There are fanbases I hate because they’re dicks, not just because Angels. Team history was important. The A’s would have been higher, as would the Rays and Twins, but I think I’d be bummed out watching my favorite players always leave…. accept the shell of Maur. “Black eyes and disgraces” didn’t mean anything to me once I really considered a lot of these teams. Everyone poops it turns out.
But, there it is. If I had to be stuck with a team to root for for the last 22 seasons, independent of personal loyalty, it would likely be the Cardinals. But the Angels are 6th out of 30. For those of you around here who seem to need a lot of help with facts, that means there are 24 teams I’d put behind Arte and the Angels this millennium.
Who would you want to get stuck with if personal loyalty, where you grew up, etc. didn’t matter? Why? This kind of matters because, in the age of the internet and jets, this is likely how a lot of fanbases will grow in the future.
Photo credit: Rex Fregosi
Yankees – when east coast baseball starts up each afternoon before west coast games, its the pinstripes i tune into.
D-Backs going forward? but thats the local team.
Padres – but thats a local angle too.
Giants? No.
A’s? Naw
M’s, RedSox – no way
A random team? Brewers i guess
Man, looking at these responses…. would any of us still be Angels fans if those poor Rays just had a stadium that didn’t look like the worlds largest cubicle from 2004 and a payroll of say 120M? Like the Twins? That poor friggin team. They’d be Yankee killers all the time.
If there are no connections to any team and no history with any team – here is my ranking for this millennium.
Cardinals
Rays
Indians
Braves
Cubs
Reds
Giants
Nationals
Angels
A’s
Rangers
Dodgers
Padres
Twins
Astros
Brewers
White Sox
Mariners
Orioles
Royals
Rockies
Pirates
Blue Jays
Red Sox
Diamondbacks
Tigers
Mets
Yankees
Marlins
I Like the Guardindians too… trouble is that 2000-2017, man that would have been rough. And I’m just not sure I’d enjoy them even now. I mean, does their owner strike you as a guy who has figured out how to win on the cheap for now, or is he better than that? Cause I get the feeling they are really just the A’s in a weak AF division with less winning… and that’s moving forward. In the past they were “The Controversial Royals”.
Man, I could not have watched the 2000-2022 Nationals or Cubs over the Angels.
I’d love to watch CtPG guy deal with Ricketts as an owner though. That would be LOLBAH funny.
I put the Guardians third because I feel they evaluate, draft and develop players very well. Which I find way more interesting than free agency. They also generally pitch well which I like. I also love the city of Cleveland and it’s very kind and ‘real’ people.
They evaluated, drafted and developed players well since 2000? I mean, if I just get to relive the last couple years of a team and move forward I’d go Indians, or maybe Padres… But yeah, Cleveland is a city that deserves an MLB title. I wish they’d won one in the 90s.
Maybe it was the Curse of Willie Mays in the 1954 World Series? Or maybe they are still being cursed for lighting their river on fire in 1969?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XVNuT4fkjAs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SJ3plaSowWc
Well, they did have Ricky “Wild Thing” Vaughn, Willie Mays Hayes, and Pedro Cerrano in the late ’80s.
I’ve generally and consistently liked Braves and Cardinals since 1990s. They almost always seemed to field good teams full of players I liked, at least at the time (even if I wound up with very mixed feelings later, like Pujols–but a lot of that is my Angels fan nature talking ) and even when they weren’t so good, they always seemed to have a plan.
Indians and Rays, and to a lesser degree, Pirates (!) for a while, have been mixed bag. Again, teams often fielding competitive teams, with a pretty good organization turning out solid to very good players often enough, and the FO generally seemed to have a plan. But watching them long term becomes frustrating because they never seemed to become the team they could be because of money constraints. Ironically, a little bit like following the Angels, although our financial constraints are affecting things a bit differently.
Giants, especially in the latter half of the period in question are in the next category. They were never quite that good, not 3 championships good. But they always seemed to come through in key games in an exciting fashion.
After these teams, the rest are mostly just meh, except a few that I really hate.
Even if I weren’t an Angels fan, I think I’d hate the Dodgers and Red Sox. Obnoxious fan base and obnoxious players (Manny Ramirez, Puig, Ortiz), usually at the worst of their obnoxiousness, played for them. Funny thing, though, that I don’t put Bonds with these guys. I suppose I have a soft spot for early 1990s Pirates and Bonds at that time was the best ballplayer I had seen until then (but I was also young, so hadn’t actually seen that many ballplayers…)
Where would you rank the Angels among all these options? Would you have rather watched the Indians or Pirates from 2000-2022? If the Red Sox and Doyers are out do the Angels make your top 5 or 6?
In the first half of the era, I actually would have ranked the Angels with the Cardinals and Braves. We had a good blend of home grown and FA talents. The farm had good prospects. We were turning marginal signings to quality role players.
In the second half, I ‘d have placed the Angels with the second group. Potential for quality, but something is fundamentally flawed. With the Pirates, Indians, and Rays, the problem is fairly obvious: they don’t have money, so they cope, not always well. With the Angels, too, there are problems related to money, but it’s sort of opposite the typical “second group” teams: we try to cope by signing a few expensive and flashy free agents instead of relying on prospects and cheap reclamation projects, then try to fill the holes by signing people that we generally fail to “reclaim,” often for too much money. This is almost like watching a Greek tragedy
Yeah, but that can be said about 75% of teams. Thus we’re not era picking, gotta bight the whole millennium.
Not many teams were in “cusp of being good” because they had Trout and Ohtani, but fell short because of such and such constraints. Can’t you see Arte being a Creon to the Oedipus that is the team?
I can see lots of things. But the green eggs and ham of this discussion is simply which team would you root for from 2000-2022 and where would the Angels rank for you in that time period? Pretty strait forward. The owner’s name that entire time period could just be Owner in this case.
The details don’t matter. “In XXX years I would like said team but in YYY years not so much” can be said of most teams, but that’s not the question.
Well, I don’t care what you think the answer should be, but that’s my answer. I like watching the way teams are run in the long run as much as teams in the field. Teams that are run like well oiled machine are fascinating. Teams that are potentially great but are fatally flawed are fascinating in a different way. Teams that are hopelessly badly run and consistently suck are not very interesting. I don’t think teams that have real potential but fall short because of fatal flaws are as common as you think.
So…. are you actually reading what I type or are you just having thoughts and then responding with thoughts on thoughts? Why are you answering questions no one asked?
For example, at no point in this exchange have I even referenced teams that fell short of their potential as a group, much less how common they are… and yet, you’re gonna argue with nobody about it.
in my time, starting way, way back, my fandom has been based on familiarity with the club. That means being able to read about the club, attending games. That’s why I was a Mets fan, until they traded Trout after getting snippy with him. And by “Trout’ I mean Seaver. And by that time I was in Los Angeles. No internet then, so I couldn’t follow the Mets as I had when I was back east. You know…you look in the paper and see the result and instead of a score it says (n) because it was too late for the early edition. Maybe you don’t know, but that’s how it was once upon a time.
Maybe the Angels games were also too late but I could listen on the radio so I knew what was going on. I had a choice, once I gave up on the Mets, between only two clubs. There was nothing to follow outside of Los Angeles except for the standings and that’s emotionally unsatisfying. Now we have access to all the websites, which is how I’m able to stay an Angels fan.
Having said all that, if I were a kid someplace where there wasn’t any MLB I’d almost certainly root for the team with my favorite player, whoever that may be.
If you had all of the tools of today and could pick any team to follow from 200-2022 is there are front runner for you? Where would the Angels rank in that pile?
ok, since I’m NOT a kid…well, I’d still root for my favorite player’s team. Strangely it’d be Baltimore. I’d disregard all that past data and just look at the last couple of seasons and then project ahead.
If the question is “how happy would I have been over the last 20 years rooting for team X” then it’d be St Looee
Yeah. In trying to decide “How bad have a really had it these last 22 years?” it was hard for me to not veer towards teams I am excited about of late, like Baltimore, Detroit, Padres and Cleveland or latch onto teams I kind of enjoyed, like that Royals team… but totally forget all the total wasteland years I’d have had to sit through.
St Louis is a pretty clear winner in my book…. or the Braves if you just can’t stand how great the “greatest fanbase” is.
also I think if I weren’t already an Angels fan I would not become one now. I always enjoy Trout and Ohtani and the supporting cast. I’d rank them somewhere in the 16-22 range. I’d probably want my new favorite team to sign Ohtani or trade for him and extend him. Let’s say it was Baltimore. With their 2022 improvement and their stacked farm, adding Ohtani would be a “wow”.
Honestly, I really think the Mariners are gonna take a run at him as “the final piece”. They have the payroll space, even with Rodriguez contract. Long term their roster will collapse when they can’t pay anyone else, but they’ll have a couple years where they really go for it before they have to pay guys like Gilbert/Castillo etc all at the same time.
Cardinals, Braves and Tampa Bay.
Yeah. Me too probably. Where do the Angels rank from 2000-2022 if those are the top 3 “free agent fan” picks?
Hmmmm. Looking at this list. In those 22 years, teams that had successful tear downs that lead to at least extended playoff time of more than one season… Tigers, Astros, Braves, Padres, Indians, A’s and Cubs… is that ownership I’d have enjoyed for that long a period?
I think if I got the Braves/Astros version where it gets sustained for a long period?
I love it. Of course I’d love it even more if the Giants were on this list.
There are far worse teams/fans than the Giants but yeah, especially having lived among them a bit… it’s just a very yuppie group, especially compared to A’s fans.
On the opposite end of the scale, I do currently enjoy the Pirates and wish them well. Problem is I just don’t know if I have the true loser energy to be a REAL Pirates fan, like make them MY TEAM. Imagine the sad sack aura of CtPG guy. Then put him in a lost season microwave for literally three times as long as we’ve been in. Then take away every player he likes. Then snow on him every winter.
The near constant ass in the air victimhood in the Pirates fandom makes way more sense than it does here, but I just don’t think I could join it whole heartedly. I just follow them from a good safe distance and am happy when they win. Same with the Reds.
my fave Pirates moment was when the first baseman chased Baez back to home plate instead of stepping on first, then they all threw the ball over over the place. I counted 7 different Pirates making mistakes on that play. If I were a Pittsburgh fan that would be mythical.
From what I can tell, it is. It’s like 1) 79 Pirates. 2) Rattling Johnny Queto in the short play off series. 3) Trade of (name) your favorite player. 4) “The Play” 5) Go Steelers. 6) The early 90s teams that failed to go anywhere. 7) Nothing came of Cole/Taillon/Kuhl/Glasnow….
Then if you’re an old man you bring up the 72 team or some older stuff…. and complain.
They kind of have a strong sense of “baseball itself is out to fk us” in their fandom from what I can tell. Same with the Reds fans.
Since you asked for it. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nyksli6wCHs
thanks. 3b makes an offline throw, pitcher watches as 1b does what he does, catcher doesn’t tag Baez, then throws to 2b covering first, 2b makes half hearted attempt to catch it, rf is out of position and has to run after the ball, gets it, throws to the shortstop who also makes a half hearted attempt to catch it. So that’s 7 guys who could have either gotten the out at 1st or at 2nd. Man….watching it again is almost as unreal as when it happened.
Interesting discussion. Thanks for writing it.
I personally think you can measure the relative value of ownership with two variables:
1. How willing is the owner to spend on top talent;
2. How willing is the owner to build a solid baseball operation and fill it with baseball people at all levels of the organization. This also requires an owner to be willing to delegate to the baseball people and not to mettle beyond setting budgets.
That’s it. I don’t think there is another metric for evaluation of an owner.
I would give Arte high marks for #1 and awful maths for #2. If Arte gets an A for the first category, he gets an F for the second.
Overall, he gets a C since I weight each variable equally.
Really I’m just hoping to find out that a bunch of people, sans Angel fandom, would be like “Hey, I think I like the Diamonbacks…” or something weird.
If I had to choose based purely on Organizations I admire from ownership down to the minor leagues, it would be the Cardinals and maybe the Braves.
Why not the Doyers?
Cause I just can’t. But I do admire/covet their Org from top to bottom.
I feel ya.
But I also think that they’re seemingly arrogant management philosophy to control all of the dugout & game day decisions have led to a disappointing track record of failure in the playoffs.
Also, we’re talking 2000-2022. Not 2016-2022. Plus, Dodger fan.
I was actually thinking about the Red Sox. As a little boy I thought Jim Rice, Dwight Evans and Wade Boggs were super cool and I also thought Boston was cool cause of history, etc.
But by 2000? Through 2022? Nope. That’s when the Sawx and their fans and the media all showed their ass. And that ass was just as gross and stinky as the Yankees and Dodgers. Nope tankz.
There you go spouting off Owner Wins and Losses … but everyone smart uses OAR – Owners Above Replacement. Arte is in the negative in this category. 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
True. W/L % and ERA don’t really tell us much about how valuable an owner is. Obviously what is key is Ego Relative to Asshole Plus (ERA+) and Wankers Hyperventilating per Interviews Published (WHIP). I prefer these because they are totally subjective stats that I can mostly just make up and use to support my feelz.
Dunno. What do you think? I think the true “Replacement Level Ownership” over this span was someone like the Blue Jays, Mets or Nationals?