Our hopes for a quality infielder are fulfilled. Gio Urshela is fresh off a 3.1 bWAR season and has an OPS+ of 121 or better in 3 of the last 4 seasons.
Heading back to the Twins is Alejandro Hildago.
To say I’m thrilled is an understatement. Stay tuned for more details as they emerge.
Urshela is projected to make $9.2 million as an arbitration eligible player by MLBTR. He is under club control for two full seasons, giving Livan Soto and Zach Neto plenty of time to fully develop.
As currently constructed, the Angels now have three infielders capable of playing multiple positions in Urshela, David Fletcher, and Luis Rengifo. Anthony Rendon is penciled in at third base with Jared Walsh at first.
So Asdrubal Cabrera really is a switch-hitter? https://twitter.com/TaylorBlakeWard/status/1594207208983535616
Maybe Nevin wants to add him to our coaching staff for those Mariners games next year.
Big game in local college football today. But where is our Trea Turner signing? 😂
Arte doesn’t want to take away from today’s big game thunder. So I suspect they’re waiting until tomorrow to start leaking the signing.
GO TROJANS!!!
ha ha ha ha….
I guess your dad wasn’t a big Trojan fan on the night of your conception.
Wait. what are you talking about? I was always told a stork brought me.
How’s your letter to Santa coming, buddy?
You silly goose , everyone knows theres no Santa. Right?
Oh man, have you not seen the documentary The Santa Clause? He’s very much real.
Oh wow. I thought that was Elvis.
what about a 1 yr flyer?
Oh yeah maybe his GF/Fiance hates Mutt Lynch’s at Newport Beech.
You’re late.
Jeff already suggested this at $5m
$5M probably won’t do it…maybe closer to $7 or $8M? We can make it up in weed.
This guy is TOAST.
In more ways than one!
Yeah, but Jeff didn’t agitate you with a edging Mutt Lynch dig. You have been truthed hard!….. by Copernicus The Joker… JoKernicus
Ummm, no.
We’ve had enough organizational issues with drugs. We don’t need this dude taking bong hits in the club under the rock pile before games.
Huh. So thats what goes on under the rockpile.
That’s not how I heard it…. Just as Horse-face Lackey.
Found it interesting for determining the reliability of the MLB trade simulator that this trade is considered an overpay by the Angels.
Hidalgo is rated at a 2.0
Gio is rated at 0.4
I think what is clear is that player salary plays a very high role in the simulator.
I’d suggest this also illustrates the weaknesses with the trade simulator. What’s the percentages on how many players in Single A actually make it to the Majors – let alone are productive major league players.
True. I think it a combo – unknown with potential upside and cheap is considered higher in value than known upside and relatively expensive.
Exactly. A 19 year old that pitched 39 innings in low A ball is encouraging but should it be worth 2.0 in the trade simulator? Is the TS designed for teams that are perinnially rebuilding? Hildalgos stuff seems nice
https://twitter.com/Jared_Tims/status/1593715340835717121
but realistically, what is the probability that he even gets a cup of coffee at AAA?
VALUE means you get MORE than you are paying for. Prospect value is based on the potential that you will get that. So even a low A prospect who can potentially be a league average reliever at league minimum sometime has value. If he could be a starter, a bit more. Another factor is the value a tradable prospect provides an FO as apposed to a solid IF who is making 8M a year.
I think a lot of people get it clouded by “but this MLB player is good” when the simulator (and teams that do well in real life) don’t think that way. I also think some of the more chesty guys around here think there is some other man out there evaluating these prospects that they can disagree with. While I’m sure prospect ranking is a factor it’s mostly math. Hidalgo was measured up against ALL of the other pitchers at the same level and all the other pitchers that came through before him and his value is calculated by that comparison extrapolating his chances of having any future value.
2.0 value just isn’t much. Look at a top pitching prospect like Grayson Rodriguez. THAT is value based on possibly having a league minimum ace for a couple years. It’s also based on the sort of MLB talent (which is already getting paid) he can be traded for.
Again… and again… we can bitch about it all we want, but these sims are built the same way that the data systems that the FOs we want to be like use. This is why when we enter trades that actually happen into them the system often shows the trade as even or close (1.6 overpay’s not that huge). We keep saying we want our FO to work like this and not just collect “baseball cards” or build a fantasy team. Well, this is how that happens, and no, it doesn’t recognize the wisdom behind our Lylin eyes at all.
I get it, a lot of us want a sim to be built that factors in wish fulfillment and validating our comments on internet boards but that’s not coming, and if it did it will probably underperform the present sim.
A MLB caliber player’s Trade value for each respective team should be based upon so many factors including (first and foremost) need, contract & control status, anticipated production based upon environmental, league division and home park factors, value (expected WAR versus annual anticipated salary)
Based upon these factors as well as the extensive size of each teams analytics department I seriously doubt each team is using the same or even similar trade simulator to evaluate potential transactions.
Furthermore on prospect related transactions I find it hard to believe That low A prospects would be valued so high considered that the probability that they will reach the majors and perform consistently at or above replacement level within a 3 to 4 year period has to be lower than 50%.
But I guess If the system is indeed rigged towards over valuing the medium to lower level prospects that would explain why so many trade deadline deals for established major leaguer turn out to be big busts.
BTW for S & G I reran the Teoscar Hernandez for Swanson & Macko trade on the simulator. It put the value of Hernandez at 8.40 ( which seems awfully high considering his salary and contract status ) versus the value of the bullpen arm and older prospect the Jays picked up. It put that value at 15.8. So if thats the case the Jedi got totally violated.
Of course different teams will have slightly different factors to how they guage this stuff. The sim is “basic blanket”.
If you don’t think A ball prospects will be valued “so high” as 2.0 then go try to trade for Marcelo Mayer et al. It does factor in advancement. For example, the top A ball pitching prospect is probably Jackson Jobe. I can’t remember what he was, but it was lower than 20, like 15. While I know Taj Bradley (Rays) is MLB ready and is around 47. Then of course you have the most expensive guys, who have played out one year of control and were good. Like McClanahan on the Rays at 127. So the probability of failure is baked in some.
What no one wants to grasp is that Paul Goldschmidt is a 10.8, not because he sucks, but because he’s very paid, the value he is given is because he’s that much better than his current contract. But still, his ilk, like Trout too, can’t be valued THAT high because no team can afford more than a handful of his contract…. unless unicorns.
And yeah. Jedi did kind of get taken. But that’s a good example, while he did get taken, obviously the Ms were OK overpaying a little because they are really trying to win next year.
Same concept goes for an Ohtani trade. He’s a 61. Now the Dodgers are pretty damn determined to get a ring. And they have a ton of prospect depth. So they may be willing to “overpay” and send us Busch, Pages and Stone for example while Boston wouldn’t do the same. We will, in fact, probably see a little overpay if we trade Ohtani, but not by a ton.
But no amount of squeezing our thighs together over this will make Ohtani into a 150, which is what most of the people on this site who share your position want because unicorns and Bade Root. Ohtani, with the certainty that he will cost a minimum 30+ million a year to ANY team no matter what other side issues you sprinkle on it moving forward, is past the point where he is as valuable as the potential of having Jackson Chourio be the next Juan Soto at league minimum for 5 years for you, even if Chourio is 18 and can possibly fail. The value of a cheap star player, and what it allows an org to do, is THAT high.
This is also why FOs we admire are so willing to gamble on long yet financially safe early extensions. It will make it possible for the Braves to actually keep all those players if they are good, not have to lose a couple to FA a year, and still sign bullpen arms, etc. If Strider bombs it sucks. But if strider starts making 32M a year at the end of arb and then leaves it’s also a burden, which they have now avoided.
The “No. Prospect no value.Mah Stars!” sentiment is just ridiculous to me because THAT’S ARTE PEOPLE. The teams we want to be don’t do that. If we want veteran grit Cutch is out there and ready to sign cheap.
Fully agree.
I’ve made this point many times — that the simulator totally overvalues prospects, and is therefore a useless tool.
Yes. What you pay for a thing effects value a great deal.
I think this is a fantastic, underrated move. Definitely improves the infield, provides addt’l offense, insurance to Rendon, and can even play some SS. Perry also didn’t give up much, at least in terms of value now.
Now that we have a 3B for next year we need a back-up and we’re ready to roll (facetious ray off).
😂 😂
If memory serves me, Urshela killed us with two hits in two games last year.
Well hopefully he wont kill us with no hits in many games next year..
Ahhh….I see what you did there……
So did Kole Calhoun after he left us.
Napoli brutalized the Angels after leaving.
Welp, Vesuvius brutalized Napoli in 1906.
Not to mention Herculaneum and Pompeii in 79.
Mancini is a good pick up, but he is now more 1B than OF’er. Renfroe would help a lot as he can play corners.
My meter is moving back up to the 10 on Perry. Early birds catch the worms.
Its rising to a 10?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gweUVWUYYQ8
10 out of what?
Your meter changes quickly! I suggest a bit more wait and see.
I think he meant 1.0
Dipoto
Eppler
I thought Perry was 3.0
You forgot Ninja so wouldn’t that make 4.0?
Brian Anderson cut loose by Miami. I want them to cut Wendle loose damn it. Anderson could be useful, but I think guys like Renfroe n Aguilar would be better, he doesn’t hit lefties well enough to be a clear help with the Walsh situation.
Anderson is not bad, can play LF as well. Mancini is a Perry type, “character guy” or Renfroe would be good for add for the OF. I almost like Haniger, who is only one year off from his 39-homer season.
Perry also mentioned Jarred Walsh being healthy and playing some Left field next year. Defensively this would not be a problem. https://www.mlb.com/video/jared-walsh-s-sliding-grab
Didn’t he pitch for us in the ’90s?
Yep. Back in the days when we actually kept our first round draft picks
{BTW, yes, i know it’s a different Brian Anderson}
Of course you did. Its his kid.
Damn, I’m old.
what about Colin Moran for depth?
What about Colin Farrell for killing a sacred deer?
So they dumped Gio to save about $2.5 million or was this move now made because the Twins don’t think they can resign the Cheater? https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2022/11/twins-to-acquire-kyle-farmer.html
Sad face. I wanted Farmer, though Gio’s probably a more reliable bet at the plate.
Farmer is a true shortstop?
Either that or they traded 2 WAR to save $3.6 million.
Not sure but he averaged over 900 innings there the last 2 years. by far the primary position that hes been playing.
Mariners get Hernandez and Angels get Urshela
This is a good depth move, still pining for the LF stick. If I have to, I’ll go one more year with Walsh, he will seal his own fate in 2023.
I think the Angels won this death match. as Perry ends up with a player in Urshela with a little lower OPS over the last 5 years (.794 vs .819) but who plays a more elite defensive position at a much higher level (Teoscar defense is considered horrible even with a plus arm) while Gil is projected to make about 1/2 as much as Hernandez next year. Both are one year rentals but Perry only gives up a fringe prospect while the Mariners give up a fringe prospect AND an elite bullpen arm with multiple years of team control.
Eat it Jer Jer.
Starting to get queasy if the Angels plan to play Urshela at short at a regular interval. Maybe would be have been to sign a “real” shortstop and have Rengifo the 2nd/3rd backup. As I stated, good depth piece and better than Mayfield or Wade for sure.
I think Gio is a platoon partner at first, a fill it at SS, and will take over 3B when Rendon needs to rest or hit the IL.
all for the low low price of only $8.5 million a year.
If he effectively covers 145 games at that price it is low. 8.5M is what? 1.2 WAR?
One thing I’ve noticed about successful teams is that they have a few good guys who can play multiple positions. Like the Dodgers when Chris Taylor was the Swiss Army Knife. Ben Zobrist, Chone Figgins, etc.
It gives guys a day off here and there, allows managers to play the match up game, and gives coverage for injuries.
Our infield is getting there. On any given day any of Urshela, Fletcher, or Rengifo could end up at third, short, or second and the lineup looks fine.
Against a lefty, it could go Rendon, Fletcher, Rengifo, Urshela from left to right. That’s freaking solid and it leaves Walsh on the bench to pinch hit if a righty comes in later.
Like Dodgers with now FA Cody Bellinger?
Careful. Your tempered optimism based on facts and data and stuff will almost certainly piss someone off because it is adjacent to an idea that is near not signing superstars. Not that said pissed off people will admit that they are gagging for some superstar.
Hey, can’t a guy want Rodon, deGrom, Turner and Judge?
I think we might be competitive…
kowBOI said this guy was done after 2020 in Oakland until the Toronto Blue Jays answered……..sign Cody B A*te and do something right for once. kowBOI’s always wrong because he’s a 80%er.
Hey Tooty Tall Tale Teller, When did I ever say that this guy was done? What I did say is that Semien is overrated and that his defense is not very good either at short (where he no longer plays) or at second. And now, out-of-work POBO Jon Daniels and the Rangers have learned this the hard way. Unfortunately the Rangers will be paying for this mistake of signing this 32 year old for the next 6 years and to the tune of 150 million.
At least The halos will be off the hook with Rendon in only 4 more years
Hey I have an idea Toots , how about for once you stop the bullshit and untruths. In fact I challenge you for at least a month through the end of December (it could be our Christmas present form you) that you post no more misrepresentations of what people say here , and that before you post anything you actually do some research instead of the half ass pictures and erroneous statements we’ve been subjected to for way too long?
Come On Toots , Nut up for once in your life. Your mommy will actually be proud of you .
Here’s the test. How often has anyone replied to defend a positive argument with “Oh yea? Well what about Marcus Semien?”
Apparently if you’ve never done that you are an 80%er (still not a thing).
Still
Can’t
Wait
For
Your
2022
Tootie Too
IIWPM
Where, obviously, you must have signed Semien.
Also
Can’t
Wait
To see your
2023.
Show us all how smart you are BEFORE a season starts there Jokernicus.
I think the really interesting thing is whether these two moves mean it is more likely than not that the bullpen will be built with young arms out of AA. I would actually prefer that over dropping big bucks on bullpen FA arms which tend to be boom or bust.
Yah. If it’s gonna be boom bust I’d rather see Joyce and his huge manly man heat.
But Perry kept mentioning that the acquisition of a closer during the Tyler Anderson presser is still a priority. I doubt that he thinks we are going to be shitting one out of the farm any time soon since many of those guys are still unproven.
And I’m not sure where the money is coming from if Arte doesn’t increase last years budget so this will be interesting.
I’ve looked at the FA RPs and while there is a number of arms available, a lot of waiver wire trash. If I had to, I’d maybe (?) consider Lugo or Strahm. pass of Kimbrel and Chapman.
Maybe just bring up Panda’s and see if they stick.
The Panda firemen will be up this season . The only question is when.
😆 😆 😢 😢
We’ve seen that bad movie before (Jo Adell, Tucker Davidson).
How about Cal St Northridge play Alabama or Georgia in football?
And that bad really Cody Bellinger show that just got cancelled.
Youse gots a problem wid CSUN?
who are you talking about?
BTW I noticed you said AA which usually means at least until next September or maybe 2024. Keep in mind that young players will take it on the chin for at least their first two seasons. Not a fan of any of our kids sans Reid Detmers. I’m not a Perry fan and I hope he resigns before or gets fired by the new owner.
Yes, but not nearly a whole damm team.
I liked the “Rudy” movie every bit as much as the next guy, but at some point you need more true good thoroughbred “Jimmy Chitwood” like talents and NOT JUST TWO……
Perry on Gio
Would the Angels non tender Walshie? https://twitter.com/JeffFletcherOCR/status/1593727508125388800
Walsh is not gonna be that expensive, would be a major mistake to let him loose without giving him another chance IMO
Agreed. It would also be a mistake to not get some insurance for him.
His entire career has struggled hitting lefties and making contact. Can give me another year but there is just another year we battle emerging over 0.500. This FO always takes the least invasive approach.
Here, throw some happy in that sack of yours. Look at these guys splits. Even with last years pump issues Walsh hits righties very well and plays GG defense. It’s not hard to find a platoon compliment and make 1B into a 600 AB 800 OPS+ position.
Walsh
Aguilar
Renfroe
Myers
Walsh is cheap. Any of these other guys can play 1B/OF and are cheap too (accept Renfroe) but you’d easily total 30HR and an positive OPS+ out of the 1B platoon/#5 or 6 hitter.
A closer, 6th starter , left fielder and bull pen help with only about $17 million to $18 million left to spend?
No problem.
Depending on his ARB number, we are down to 15-17M in budget left.
Perhaps this is insurance for Rendon and chronic injury concerns? Urshela is primarily a 3B so it does make you think…
Does Perry know something we don’t about Rendon’s recovery ?
After 2 straight years of injuries, he would be stupid to trust Rendon.
Agree.
The other thing is that maybe this acquisition lights a fire under fat and happy Glass Rendon and we see some focus to stay on that field and produce…
He produces fine when he plays. The problem is he just keeps getting needless and fun surgeries because he lacks grit and wants to just hang out and collect a paycheck.
😂
Fire? He collects his nearly $40 m per year whether or not he plays.
Yes, I know. That is exactly my point.
Mildly encouraging. I like it.
Very solid trade, and surprised that the Twins didn’t get more. Hidalgo has nice upside, but he’s many years away.
The Angels have decent MI/utility depth, so this is one position you probably want to rent, not buy. (They should still protect Jeremiah Jackson though – he’s unprotected going into the Rule 5 draft.)
Yeah this means going into the season with Rengifo and Squid as backups instead of starters.
INF is now all looking nice with 1B and C being the weak links.
Seems like they’d want a glide path for O’Hoppe at C, with Stassi as mentor, so it doesn’t feel like a position of need at the moment. More like a wait-and-see year.
Ideally they pick up a power bat that can play LF/1B next. Then it’s probably all nibbles for BP / sixth starter types.
I hate the idea of relying on Loup for any pivotal, high-leverage innings next season…I know he’s going to stay since we’re paying him anyway, but I would like to see his role reduced by bringing in somebody else…
When Soto hit almost .400 and played great in the field at short that means he doesn’t make the team? Huh.
I think he just shifts to a super-ute role like Rengifo. Especially with Fletcher’s health being a longer term question.
Soto had an amazing month in 2022, but as someone who has closely watched the guy on the farm since acquisition, I doubt it’s representative of a full season of ABs.
But he could very much be a Maicer Izturis type who brings health and flexibility to the diamond until pitchers adjust and minimize his impact.
Yah. Soto totally reminds me of Mouse Tits but a better SS.
You watch the minors a lot more. I followed Rocket City this year. Soto put up much better numbers at the MLB level than in AA and even looked more comfortable and confident while doing so.
I’d love for Soto to be real, but I think he needs more minor league time.
Small sample, prepare for serious regression. He hit for high average but did not make hard contract.
LF and 1B. For catcher, just pick a professional off the FA rockpile for a year.
Umm, well. uh hmmm…