LA Angels Thursday News Crash: Employees, Not Trainees

A federal judge in Northern California (the Hon. Joseph Spero) just ruled that minor league baseball players are employees (not trainees) and therefore must be paid throughout the year. Major League Baseball is considered a joint employer along with teams.

Fernando Tatis Jr. has had his wrist surgery now. Chris Sale has a boo boo and won’t be able to play for the indefinite future. He’s an employee but not required to do anything while injured and he’s fine with that; or else he’s not depending on how you interpret this quote.

The Phillies signed Kyle Schwarber to a four year contract worth nearly $80 Million.

Seiya Suzuki got $85 Million for five years with the Cubs. He also got a full no trade clause. Watch out for those brick walls out there! Team President Jed Hoyer says COVID-19 vaccinations status is not a factor on the Cubs decisions about which free agents to sign. We already knew that. Exhibit A: Andrelton Simmons. These are employees not required to be vaccinated unless the MLBPA says it is OK. The Cubs also signed free agent left hander Steven Brault. They just got David Robertson as well.

Oakland traded Matt Chapman to the Blue Jays. Across the bay, the Giants signed Joc Pederson.

Detroit signed left handed relief pitcher Andrew Chafin. They also re-signed Wily Peralta.

The Royals swapped Mike Minor for Amir Garrett. They also picked up Zack Grienke on a one year deal.

The Braves re-signed Eddie Rosario.

You can all allegedly stop kidding yourselves that the Angels will trade for Luis Castillo.

Arizona’s Diamondbacks signed reliever Ian Kennedy to a one year deal with a mutual option for 2023.

Kris Bryant is now with the Colorado Rockies.

Greg Holland signed with the Texas Rangers.

A few Angels Links

Aaron Loup was really good last year. Of course, now he’s with the Angels so we’ll see if he stays good. Perry Minasian may be open to a couple more bullpen pieces but otherwise is done building this team for this year. The Angels signed Matt Duffy to a one year deal but put Griffin Canning on the 60 day IL. Maybe we should designate an unofficial Cathartic Scream Night.

Photo credit: Rex Fregosi

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RexFregosi
Super Member
1 year ago

Me this morning: hmm the better option is to stay home and watch F1, March Madness, Kings and Angels both on TV and no need to fight crowds.

30 minutes later:

“One Lawn Ticket please”

Cowboy26
Legend
1 year ago
Reply to  RexFregosi

You chose wisely.

Cowboy26
Legend
1 year ago

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4XA4TNcjoxE

And Noooowww its time to plaaaayyy 40 Man Halo whip around.

The Angels 40 man roster is full . But the impending move of Ty Buttrey off of the restricted list, and todays acquisitions of Archie Bradley & Ryan Tepera will require 3 players to be voted off the island. Here is the list of potential candidates.( Please Vote for no more than 3)

Mike Mayers (No options left and no final contract yet-arbitration)
Jose Quijada (No options left)
Jack Mayfield (No options and doesn’t walk much, but everyone loves Captain Jack)
Packy Naughton (Mullets should get extra points)
Matt Thaiss ( Can he Pitch cuz I’m not sure he can catch?)
Jose Rojas ( odd man out?)
Brendon Davis ( but he was just added)
Luis Rengifo ( Extradition awaits)
Taylor Ward ( Cue JeDi clap draft video)
Janson Junk ( One persons junk is another’s…)
Jhonathan Diaz ( Can he get that H fixed?)
Kyle Tyler ( not bad for a 20th round draft pick)
Cooper Criswell ( Who doesn’t love that 20.25 MLB ERA?)
Jimmy Herget ( Cool eyewear reminds me of Ben Weber)
Andrew Wantz ( this town isn’t large enough for 2 A.W. relief pitchers)
Jose Marte (There’s Ketel & Starling and we get Jose?)
Oliver Ortega (Our international amateur free agents cant be any good, right?)
Elvis Peguero ( is it finally time for Elvis to leave the 40 man?)

I’m sure Perry is yearning for your picks so be sure to vote early and vote often

gitchogritchoffmypettis
Legend
Reply to  Cowboy26

I think Junk, Naughton, Thiass (if he can catch) and Mayers are safe, maybe Ward. Everyone else is going full Battle Royal the next couple weeks. Some of these guys do have options and don’t have to go through waivers though right? Like Crisswell?

I’d ditch Mayfield, Rojas and Herget myself. That whole pile of Marte/Quijada/Peguero/Wantz/Ortega are all guys where if they just make an adjustment they become solid pen arms at least. The one we cut will be the one the A’s pick up and he becomes a stud closer.

Cowboy26
Legend
1 year ago

All of The players listed above have options left unless noted. But the option just allows the Team to add and remove the player from major league 26 man roster. Any player jettisoned from the 40 man roster is subjected to waivers. But if all of the other teams have full 40 mans or don’t think the player is worthy they will pass and then the Angels can outright the player to minor leagueville.

It will be interesting to see what decisions the Angels make later in the year when the 2021 draft kids are ready to ascend not the major league roster even if it’s a playoff secret weapon approach aka young Rod.

Mayers is an interesting case even though the team has tendered him a major league contract he has not had his Arbitration hearing. So I think the Angels could cut him before opening day and only have to pay him a small percentage of his entire salary. I believe that rule will be modified next year under the new CBA.

RexFregosi
Super Member
1 year ago
Reply to  Cowboy26

Packy no longer has his mullet so I’m afraid he doesn’t have a chance.

gitchogritchoffmypettis
Legend

If the Tigers are trying to trade for Manea and or Montas we aren’t getting those guys. I’m no scientist, but i don’t think we have the prospect capital those cats have.

Eric_in_Portland
Legend
1 year ago

I think the raft of relievers is a good indication we’re not getting any more starters. It feels like the strategy will be if we can get 5 decent innings we’ll turn it over to the pen.

gitchogritchoffmypettis
Legend

Most likely, though we may Tyler Anderson still. Have to see.

YOUknowulovetheIE
Trusted Member
1 year ago

First spring without albert pujols in awhile and it feels good

RexFregosi
Super Member
1 year ago

Starting to feel bad for him as apparently he’s still hoping for job and no one is knocking.

gitchogritchoffmypettis
Legend
Reply to  RexFregosi

He can dry his tears with a huge wad of 5,000 dollar bills and his Doyers jersey.

2002heaven
Trusted Member
1 year ago

Yet HH fans we’re doing cartwheels over us signing him for a long term deal.
The BIG QUESTION IS WHEN WILL CTPG DO THE SAME TO TROUT? See the retirement of Andrew Luck as he walked off the field in 2019……….yes a fan base can turn on it’s star player. Not gonna rec you for this comment and BTW not a Pujols fan either. All I’m mad about was the length of the contract and if the OLD RICH GUY would’ve just gave him a 7yr deal he would’ve been off our books by the end of the 2018.

Cowboy26
Legend
1 year ago
Reply to  RexFregosi

Well let’s hope someone hires him soon. I’m not ready for him to start that 10 year personal services contract so we have to see that mug around the team again.

JackFrost
Super Member
1 year ago
Reply to  RexFregosi

Not true. There are apparently three teams who have expressed interest, one of which is supposedly the Mariners. Wouldn’t that be fun !!

RexFregosi
Super Member
1 year ago
Reply to  JackFrost

That was a week ago and crickets since.

He’s not in any camp – we’ll see who has a roster spot for him.

JackFrost
Super Member
1 year ago
Reply to  RexFregosi

Okay. I didn’t say it was a done deal, just that they had expressed interest. Of course having conversations does not mean he’ll get signed. But I think the expansion of the DH to the National League might increase his chances by a few percentage points.

The main thing is will Albert be willing to accept scant playing time as a Pinch Hitter and part-time DH? If he only plays once or twice per week I can’t see a team wanting to pay him what he expects or would like. That half-season gig with the Doyers might have been his farewell to Major League Baseball.

Last edited 1 year ago by JackFrost
Cowboy26
Legend
1 year ago

A while? You mean a DECADE. This is wonderful!

2002heaven
Trusted Member
1 year ago

comment image
we’ll never be that good again!!!
 💩  💩  💩  😠  👈 

gitchogritchoffmypettis
Legend
Reply to  2002heaven

This actually made me laugh. Finally, after like 23,000 comments, I laughed.

Cowboy26
Legend
1 year ago

But I’m not sure he was trying to be funny…

gitchogritchoffmypettis
Legend
Reply to  Cowboy26

It just sounds like a funny tag line…

2014: We’ll Never Be That Good Again.

Vote Sancho.

2002heaven
Trusted Member
1 year ago
Reply to  Cowboy26

I vote for Donny Rowland and a new expensive field skipper because they matter according to you.
I wouldn’t mind a 100K a year field skipper actually, besides I’m pretty sure Brian Snitker was reportedly only getting $800K a year
Nat’s manager Dave Martinez gets 1M
YEP, MLB HAS FIGURED OUT THAT FIELD MANAGERS DONT MATTER COMPARED TO NFL HEAD COACHES, COLLEGE FOOTBALL COACHES OR COLLEGE BASKETBALL COACHES. BUT YET THEY MATTER TO YOU, WHICH MEANS YOU SHOULD STICK TO FACT CHECKING AND PROOFREADING OTHER MEMBERS BECAUSE YOU CAN’T SPOT THE NUANCES.
 💪  💪  💪  👈 

Mia
Legend
Mia
1 year ago

Nah, c’mon man, we’ll never have a starter better than Ol’ Shoey starting crucial playoff games.

Mia
Legend
Mia
1 year ago

The longer Correa and Story sit out there, the more i’m starting to wonder….

Twebur
Legend
1 year ago
Reply to  Mia

That and the rumored 1 year deals being a possibility.

VictoriousVIC
Trusted Member
1 year ago
Reply to  Twebur

I’ve seen the rumored 1 year deal for Story, but where have you seen the 1 year deals for Correa?

VictoriousVIC
Trusted Member
1 year ago
Reply to  Twebur

Thank you Twebur. Heck I’d be all for a 1 year deal for Correa or Story. Although I do think in Correa’s case he would do it for the Astros. But hey Boras is his representative and he takes his clients to where the money is at. I just don’t see Arte ponying up a 1 year $45 million contract. So I’d gladly take Story on a 1 year deal which should be much less coming off a down year.

Cowboy26
Legend
1 year ago
Reply to  VictoriousVIC

Alot of people do not share your sentiment regarding Carlos Correa in Angel Red.

VictoriousVIC
Trusted Member
1 year ago
Reply to  Cowboy26

That’s fine, I’m not gonna change my sentiment on that based on what other people think haha.

Cowboy26
Legend
1 year ago
Reply to  VictoriousVIC

Of course you wouldn’t nor would any of us on this site. We have no choice. We’re Angel fans.

gitchogritchoffmypettis
Legend
Reply to  Cowboy26

What? I always change my mind based on what people on CtPG say.

MarineLayer
Super Member
1 year ago
Reply to  Cowboy26

Correa yes, Bauer no. That’s where I draw the line.

JackFrost
Super Member
1 year ago
Reply to  MarineLayer

No to both.

Preserve team chemistry. When you have guys like Shohei, Trout and Fletcher you don’t bring in a Correa. He doesn’t fit.

Dude fits nicely with Bregman (dick) and Altuve (dick).

Jeff Joiner
Editor
Legend
1 year ago
Reply to  MarineLayer

I’d be hesitant on Correa. Would really hope for an apology and sign of maturity/learning from it at the press conference.

I’d never buy another Angels ticket until Bauer and all involved with signing him were gone.

VictoriousVIC
Trusted Member
1 year ago
Reply to  Mia

Plus, Roger Lodge did mention once again there’s important cars at the Big A parking lot lmao 👀

FungoAle
Super Member
1 year ago
Reply to  Mia

SHOCKED if Correra does end up back with the Astros.. His other suitors are drying up.

Jeff Joiner
Editor
Legend
1 year ago
Reply to  FungoAle

I’m not usually one to fawn over “and we took him away from ____”

But in this case, with Houston already coming back to the pack a bit. Prying Correa away would be a big shift

DaveChalk
Trusted Member
1 year ago

So I’m pretty sure I just saw Perry join us at the practice fields. Do I kick, punch, yell, or shake his hand?

RexFregosi
Super Member
1 year ago
Reply to  DaveChalk

Thank him, then ask him to sign Correa and Story both.

(and tell him to pass on Pujols)

JackFrost
Super Member
1 year ago
Reply to  RexFregosi

Ummmm.

No.

Cowboy26
Legend
1 year ago
Reply to  DaveChalk

Give ‘em a hug . A pep talk and then tell him to get back out there on the phones

RexFregosi
Super Member
1 year ago

Here’s some pics from today. Most of the team went to main stadium for the first time for fielding, base running, and batting pracice. A highlight was seeing Stoneman in a St. Pat’s hat.

Mia
Legend
Cowboy26
Legend
1 year ago
Reply to  Mia

And I guess Archie Bradleys nickname is “Crash Landing” . How can you not love that?

RexFregosi
Super Member
1 year ago
Reply to  Cowboy26

check his social media – he will be a fan favorite in no time

Mia
Legend
Mia
1 year ago

Rex’s spring report was correct, Lorenzen is starting tomorrow.

Last edited 1 year ago by Mia
RexFregosi
Super Member
1 year ago
Reply to  Mia

i see all the MSM guys reported it today.

CtPG beat them by 24 hours.

Mia
Legend
Mia
1 year ago
Reply to  RexFregosi

You should be selling these scoops instead of giving them away haha

gitchogritchoffmypettis
Legend
Reply to  Mia

Mmmmmm… no. I’ve pretty much heard that this is impossible. So no.

Mia
Legend
Mia
1 year ago

Stupid Joe is in league with stupid Perry

nishiogawakun
Super Member
1 year ago

I will keep asking for more until we have 13 aces. I mean heck, it’s not my money. But for now, I’m at least more optimistic this year than last! We might actually catch a break in our division too, but who knows what will happen! I guess it’s too much of a crap shoot to get too invested at this point. That never stopped me before though! 😅

Cowboy26
Legend
1 year ago

Can’t wait for tomorrow’s game!

John Henry Weitzel
Editor
Super Member
1 year ago

Seems like I was the one closest to what Perry did. I mean sure, i spent more money, but the core idea of getting multiple great relivers and one SP is there.

Best Bullpen in Baseball potential. I’ll take that

Cowboy26
Legend
1 year ago

2 starting pitchers. Not 1

John Henry Weitzel
Editor
Super Member
1 year ago
Reply to  Cowboy26

Ah yeah one in a trade and Rodon.

gitchogritchoffmypettis
Legend

Yup yup.

bradllee424
Trusted Member
1 year ago

Build a solid bullpen like 2002. Certainly this rotation isn’t any worse then the one in 2002. In fact it is probably better.

JackFrost
Super Member
1 year ago
Reply to  bradllee424

We’ll see. You are clearly operating on the assumption that the top guys (Ohtani and Thor, and to a lesser extent Sandoval) stay healthy and produce. If either Shohei or Thor miss significant time due to injury that immediately becomes untrue or at least highly questionable.

Last edited 1 year ago by JackFrost
matthiasstephan
Super Member
1 year ago
Reply to  JackFrost

There is always injury risk. We have 8 guys on the roster now with MLB starting pitching experience outside of our starting rotation. If we lose a top pitcher, we could trade – in theory – if one were still in it at the break.

We also can’t replace Trout or Rendon easily and still compete – but I don’t want to go out and get extra CF and 3B to have sitting around on the bench.

Team still looks more complete than in years.

JackFrost
Super Member
1 year ago

Ha ha. That isn’t saying very much. Our starting rotation is better than Harvey and Teheran et al.. Again, there are still alot of wild cards; how will Sandoval pitch coming off of injury ? How will Thor pitch for a full season coming off of injury ?

Will Barria and Suarez be able to build on recent gains, or will they regress? What about Canning? These are all very real questions, and the answers are by no means obvious…

matthiasstephan
Super Member
1 year ago
Reply to  JackFrost

Sure, but that is 5 of 8 pitchers competing for the rotation (add Ohtani, Lorenzen, Detmers). That is still more depth than a) we have had recently, and b) than most teams have. Then we have our prospects (who haven’t yet been forced to play – unlike other teams who have them penciled in to fill out the rotation).

Yes, there are question marks and wild cards. If you think that is ‘not saying much’ ok, but I think we are, again, in a better position than we have been. No team has a fool proof rotation.

JackFrost
Super Member
1 year ago

You can choose to be optimistic if you like. Me for my part, I am going to wait and see. Again, I am in a “Show Me” kind of mood. The Angels now, in particular the starting pitching, is going to have to prove to me that they are for real and ready to make us winners.

Twebur
Legend
1 year ago
Reply to  JackFrost

It’s our time Jack…Ain’t no stopping us now…we got the groove.

https://youtu.be/i2FW1WJc0lg

JackFrost
Super Member
1 year ago
Reply to  Twebur

You got me now.

I love that song !!

Cowboy26
Legend
1 year ago
Reply to  bradllee424

Wait until we get a late season surge from Bachman and the boys , then it will for sure be better .

Jim Atkins
Super Member
1 year ago

So we pick up two bullpen guys today. That’s fine, gotta be an improvement over last season. Now is it too much to ask, as we are $45MM under the salary cap (roughly) to get a real shortstop?

Jeff Joiner
Editor
Legend
1 year ago
Reply to  Jim Atkins

The luxury tax hasn’t really mattered to Arte. Actual payroll has been pretty consistent. With today’s signings we are right at the payroll number for last year, which was pretty much in line with previous years.

So while yes we have room under the cap, do we have approval from Arte to increase payroll? We don’t know.

gitchogritchoffmypettis
Legend
Reply to  Jeff Joiner

Have we made more money? Not the last couple of years. I have no way of actually knowing, but I swear to gah that our payroll is an actual cell on an actual excel spread sheet. It is a number generated by a bunch of other numbers (TV revenue, stadium ads, revenue sharing, hot dogs sold, etc) that spits out. We are almost always ranked between 7-9 for franchise value (which is probably based on some of the same stuff) and we are generally in the same spot for payroll rank.

So we have had the same TV deal. We have around 3M fans per year at games. We always have around 180M to spend. Now, I don’t think that’s hard and fast, and that’s why GMs keep saying they “don’t have a limit”. I think that, for example, if Castillo became available and we could get him in a steal of a trade, or we need him for the play offs (which will make us money) but have to pay Moose too, then Arte’d be fine with kicking the payroll up a few notches for a little while.

But generally I think the Excel sheet always says around 180, then if there are special deals or reasons to spend they’ll abandon that.

The salary cap doesn’t mean shit. Not to most teams, who won’t touch it, nor to the teams that plan to blow by it.

Jeff Joiner
Editor
Legend
1 year ago

Exactly. We’re really close to that cell now.

Is Correa worth it to Arte? Is Story? Will either generate enough interest to add money to all those other cells?

Be nice to know.

Mia
Legend
Mia
1 year ago

Angels sign Ryan Tepera

Under 3 ERA last three years.

2yr/14M

Last edited 1 year ago by Mia
Mia
Legend
Mia
1 year ago
Reply to  Mia

Not 24 hours ago half this site was bitching about how Perry was done and the season was DOOOOOOMED

Cowboy26
Legend
1 year ago
Reply to  Mia

Cheap ass Arte.

matthiasstephan
Super Member
1 year ago
Reply to  Mia

You are completely wrong – it was only a few hours (or even minutes ago).

Glad Trout was right though! In Perry we Trust!

Mia
Legend
Mia
1 year ago

Are you saying Trout might know more about what his team is doing than people online? Nah…

matthiasstephan
Super Member
1 year ago
Reply to  Mia

Trout knows not only what the team is doing (signing more players, him staying in CF) but can also predict the weather. GOAT!

gitchogritchoffmypettis
Legend

In reality, Trout is also probably at least somewhat aware of who they have tried to trade for or sign.

red floyd
Legend
1 year ago

Every game, the 1B coach needs to tell Trout that there’s an interesting weather formation at 2B, just so he’ll steal more bases!

JackFrost
Super Member
1 year ago
Reply to  Mia

I don’t know who said the season was “doomed,” but I didn’t.

I simply said and still do that I am going to “wait and see” instead of proclaiming that we’re taking the AL West before we’ve played a game.

red floyd
Legend
1 year ago
Reply to  JackFrost

comment image

VictoriousVIC
Trusted Member
1 year ago
Reply to  Mia

Perry has done a damn good job at building the bullpen. On paper this is the best bullpen we’ve had in what 8 years? And Perry basically built it from scratch the moment he got here, starting with trading for Raisel.

Call me impressed. While I do think he could have done a better job with the starting rotation, I’ll give him the benefit off the doubt. Now if Perry is somehow able to convince Story to sign a 1 + 1, I will be ecstatic.

rez2405
Trusted Member
1 year ago
Reply to  VictoriousVIC

Now imagine if Buttrey can rediscover himself ……

RexFregosi
Super Member
1 year ago
Reply to  rez2405

im already counting on big these from Buttrey – he looks like the same dude he’s always been

VictoriousVIC
Trusted Member
1 year ago
Reply to  rez2405

If Buttrey pitches any where close to his breakout year, then that’s a contender for best bullpen in the bigs. But I am not banking on that and I am glad Perry isn’t as well based on how he has built the pen.

Mia
Legend
Mia
1 year ago
Reply to  Mia

Whoops, I read his BBRef page wrong. He was not under 3 last three years. So this is a 2 year deal coming off a career year.

We’ll see if he can maintain it

matthiasstephan
Super Member
1 year ago
Reply to  Mia

He was close to that in 2016, so not necessary a huge leap for him.

RexFregosi
Super Member
1 year ago
Reply to  Mia

but can he play SS?

gitchogritchoffmypettis
Legend
Reply to  Mia

Tepera and Bradley in one day. That makes me pretty happy. Not Lobster happy, but pineapple shrimp happy.

FungoAle
Super Member
1 year ago
Reply to  Mia

Tepera is exactly the type of arm this team needs. He was one of two arms left. Help soften the Bradley misstep.

Mia
Legend
Mia
1 year ago
Reply to  FungoAle

You don’t like the Archie Bradley signing?

FungoAle
Super Member
1 year ago
Reply to  Mia

Walk rate and fading peripherals has a “caution” sign lit up. Based on what RPs are left, he is one of the better ones. Prefer Archie over Wantz and some insurance if Warren fades. Very happy with Tepera.

JackFrost
Super Member
1 year ago
Reply to  FungoAle

Archie is meh. But I agree about Tepera.

He should be a real contributor in the pen.

Cowboy26
Legend
1 year ago
Reply to  FungoAle

Just compare his numbers against Cheese shit from last year ( A season that he admittedly was injured ) he was lower on WHIP 1.43 to 1.49, Walks per 9 innings (3.9 vs 5.4) and IRS ( 32% vs 43%) That alone is worth the signing.

steelgolf
Super Member
1 year ago
Reply to  Mia

This is a good move. Middle innings option if a starter blows up.

RexFregosi
Super Member
1 year ago

Which type of fan would you be today at Tempe Diablo?

A. just chilling, a blissful sunshiny spring day, watching Trout, Rendon and the boys do some fielding and batting practice for a couple hours (this is heaven, bro)

B. WTF?! – cannot believe our top two SS options are Yankee cast-offs.

(don’t answer, at CtPG, it’s definitely B.)

Cowboy26
Legend
1 year ago
Reply to  RexFregosi

The correct answer is (B) for Buttercup. Everyone knows the correct answer is always (B)

Last edited 1 year ago by Cowboy26
Mia
Legend
Mia
1 year ago
Reply to  RexFregosi

C. All of the above

DaveChalk
Trusted Member
1 year ago
Reply to  RexFregosi

Series question – we wandered down to Diablo today after lunch but not sure who is actually playing in these games against Dodgers on the two fields. Anyone knowledgeable know what these games are – prospects?

RexFregosi
Super Member
1 year ago
Reply to  DaveChalk

minor leagues AA/AAA in those games – anyone not in Major League camp

Salt Lake/Pandas and lower mix

so Bachman? Jackson? Paris? – i’ve had meetings in the afternoon so couldn’t stick around but they played a games yesterday too.

Senator_John_Blutarsky
Legend

I buried this in a thread down below; here’s another copy.

Competitive balance tax
Here are the first thresholds for each year of the new CBA:

2022: $230 million
2023: $233 million
2024: $237 million
2025: $241 million
2026: $244 million

With Bradley, the Angels actual payroll is in the $184M range for 2022.

Last edited 1 year ago by Senator_John_Blutarsky
matthiasstephan
Super Member
1 year ago

So, our current budget is just about as high as we have ever spent, right?

Do we think Arte will increase his budget for a starter or SS? (I am hopeful, though skeptical – trades seem more likely as can be budget neutral).

Senator_John_Blutarsky
Legend

I really think PTP is done adding players unless there’s problems in spring training. We’ve entered the WWWWWWG phase of the season.

steelgolf
Super Member
1 year ago

Correction: WEFHEWWG

steelgolf
Super Member
1 year ago
Reply to  steelgolf

Damn spellcheck, it is WWFHWWWG

JackFrost
Super Member
1 year ago

Well, saying “as high as we have ever spent..” doesn’t mean much since it does not take into account inflation.

matthiasstephan
Super Member
1 year ago
Reply to  JackFrost

Ok, let’s just be clear then. That ‘highest’ was last year. It was 10M higher than 2 years before (we have to ignore the intervening COVID shortened season).

JackFrost
Super Member
1 year ago

That’s not what I mean. You’d have to go back further than two years.

If you go back to the Autry years the total dollars he spent in a particular off-season would have been much lower for two reasons; players salaries have gone way, way up, but more importantly because of inflation everything was cheaper in the 70’s and even 80’s, so comparing spending that way is sort of pointless.

It is like when people say “Avengers Infinity War” is the highest grossing film ever. This is very misleading because ticket costs are much, much higher than they were when “Stars Wars” came out in 1977 or going back further “Gone With the Wind” in 1939. Instead you would have to look at number of tickets sold to get an accurate idea of popularity/success of a film at the box office.

For baseball and sports in general I am not sure how you’d measure something like that but there would most likely be a formula to measure and rank team spending (over a long period of time) that accounts for inflation etc. In a simpler way you could just rank the team spending each year compared to the rest of the league but that could be misleading too if spending in general was way up.

Last edited 1 year ago by JackFrost
matthiasstephan
Super Member
1 year ago
Reply to  JackFrost

Well, we haven’t been less than 11th in payroll since 2002. Some years we were as high as 3rd (paying more than the Dodgers).

Does this help?

Last edited 1 year ago by matthiasstephan
JackFrost
Super Member
1 year ago

Well, if you are talking about our spending recently, that is completely different. The effects of inflation are rather small over an average 2-5 year period. Where you start noticing it is going back a decade or more. SO, if you are speaking about only Arte or just recent history it makes sense.

But if you want to compare our spending now to Angels teams throughout history in terms of spending you aren’t going to be able to do it accurately by just looking at dollar totals.

matthiasstephan
Super Member
1 year ago
Reply to  JackFrost

Well, I went back 20 years to show a comparison between Angels spending and league average. We are in the top (if not top echelon) in most years.

You are right, dollar values skyrocket, and no one is spending like the 2005 Yankees anymore (that was 200M, with the Angels in 5th at half that).

But without more data (and much better stats skills), I can’t help you.

My point was simply that Arte has increased his outlay of money year after year – seems willing to continue that trend to a degree, but seems not concerned about living right up to the cap (nor exceeding it).

JackFrost
Super Member
1 year ago

That may very well be (about Arte), but I think with the proper statistics and formula you’d find that Arte has not come close to spending like Autry did over a sustained period of time.. Again, you would probably have to look at % of payroll increase from year to year, or something like that… Or maybe look a 5 year blocks since Gene Autry would sometimes sign multiple high-ticket FA’s in a single off-season…

gitchogritchoffmypettis
Legend
Reply to  JackFrost

??? Shenanigans. I’m calling Shenanigans on this one unless someone can show me actual numbers. I mean, it’s not that hard to calculate inflationary differences.

Am I missing the rocket in this rocket science?

JackFrost
Super Member
1 year ago

I am admittedly not the person to do the math or come up with that formula, but if someone here is a math major or is a wiz at statistics then be all means, run the numbers.

I would be curious to see to a comparison of team spending in the Autry years vs the Moreno years.

Cowboy26
Legend
1 year ago
Reply to  JackFrost

In todays dollars ?

JackFrost
Super Member
1 year ago
Reply to  Cowboy26

Nope. That is easy, but more importantly inaccurate.

There would have to be a formula to account for inflation that varied from year to year that would allow an analysis of probably two decades of spending by different ownership.

If you wanted to you could throw Disney in the mix as well…

gitchogritchoffmypettis
Legend
Reply to  JackFrost

OK, I’m lost. Why do we need a formula? When I calculate a dollar value against inflation for, say, stock purchases on a ten year growth estimate Vs ten or fifteen year standard past growth, we don’t mess with anything other than what a dollar buys today Vs what it bought in say 2005 We don’t, for example, do anything weird to account for 2008-10 because that’s all baked into the over all change between 2005 and today.

When I figure a dividend yield over 10 years Vs an inflation estimate there isn’t any year to year possible flux factored in, you just do estimates at lower and higher rates for different risks. And past data is just past inflation and financial data, there are no “maybe” numbers.

And why do I need a two decade analysis of individual years? I mean, at worst all I need to do is average the payrolls (of however many years) against the inflation adjustment for that total amount of time, right? And, do I really need to do that? I mean, the 1986 dollar = 2.6 2022 dollars includes all the flux, and even if I just pick a random year like 1998 it’s not like we’re in Brazil and the year to year change is all that huge, especially over time if it’s averaged.

So what am I missing? I’m lost on this one. Someone smarten me up….

red floyd
Legend
1 year ago

There are two issues.

One is general inflation that we all know and (don’t love). E.g. 2002 dollars vs 2022 dollars.

The other is the rate of increase of MLB salaries, which most likely does not track with inflation (see college tuition for another example).

You can’t just say “$X in 2002 is worth $Y in 2022”. You have to factor in the salary inflation as well.

gitchogritchoffmypettis
Legend
Reply to  red floyd

Ah, good, a rocket scientist. Just what I needed.

So,like a commodity valuation in iron ore stock futures? A “dollar” of VALE stock can be bloated or thin depending on the projected scarcity of iron ore… the same being true of it’s past dollar values/scarcity?

But even the inflation of MLB salaries is a collective average right? Between a given past date and now? So you could find the % difference between 1986 MLB average salary and today, then apply inflation and get the “value of a 1986 MLB payroll dollar” in today’s money?

Same as how we figure out how THE RICH are so much richer comparatively now than in 1973?

Cowboy26
Legend
1 year ago
Reply to  red floyd

While you’re add it, I think you need to factor in salary expenses in relation to total team revenue . I suspect the revenues have gone up disproportionately to payroll since the winter of 1976 when the Cowboy first opened up his saddle bags to sign Rudi, Grich & Baylor in one fell swoop

gitchogritchoffmypettis
Legend
Reply to  Cowboy26

And that has what to do with the actual value of a dollar paid in payroll…. unless we’re getting into “he is richer than him so when he spends a dollar it’s not actually a dollar” type math…. which isn’t the question.

We just want to know if Autry paid more in payroll than Arte. I already know Arte’s vastly more wealthy than Autry was.

Marcotor
Trusted Member
1 year ago
Reply to  JackFrost

As a percentage of total revenue? Not a big secret in the early Autry years the Angels lost money. Also the late years when Jackie Autry screamed poverty and lobbied for MLB to contract the Angels so she could preserve what was left of Gene’s fortune to finance her twilight years.

gitchogritchoffmypettis
Legend
Reply to  JackFrost

It’s not that hard. A dollar was worth around 2.60 in 1986. in 2002 it was about 1.60. So the 2002 Angels were a 63M team then, makes them a 100.8M team in today’s dollars.

They factor in inflation on the movie grosses too.

FungoAle
Super Member
1 year ago

Still need SS and bullpen help. Go to work Po-Boy Perry. Enough with the Duffy being the starting 2nd base and Fletcher at short jokes.

Cowboy26
Legend
1 year ago

According to Cots, when adding Bradley, the Angels CBT calculations ( which includes benefits) are now at $193,000,000

Budget wise the Angels are still about $4.5 million below last years payroll

Last edited 1 year ago by Cowboy26
Cowboy26
Legend
1 year ago
Reply to  Cowboy26

Check that . With shrimp Tempora we’re now over $200,000,000 on the CBT and $2.5 million over last years budgeted payroll . Still need a 6th starter and a Story

Mia
Legend
Mia
1 year ago

You know what, i’m just gonna say it.

Perry has done a good job constructing this team within obvious constraints from Arte. It’s a strong lineup, and very solid bullpen, and a rotation with more potential than we have had in years.

Let’s gooooo!

Cowboy26
Legend
1 year ago
Reply to  Mia

Awesome. Someone’s in mid season form

Mia
Legend
Mia
1 year ago
Reply to  Cowboy26

I did not curse near enough to be in mid-season form.

matthiasstephan
Super Member
1 year ago
Reply to  Mia

Good form in saving up those F-bombs.

RexFregosi
Super Member
1 year ago
Reply to  Mia

if that’s the case, why was this the first defense drill as a team today at main stadium: (?)

Men on base, ball hit into the gap in the OF

(i loved watching Rendon during this drill. once its initiated, he is so chill and just over and over would cooly go to cover third as runners and pitchers are flying by him)

they practiced this play a lot today. trAdition.

FungoAle
Super Member
1 year ago
Reply to  RexFregosi

His coolness sure helps him in big game ABs. He is the one guy I really hope crushes the ball this year. I’m a fan.