LA Angels Monday News Crash: A Near-Perfect Weekend

The Angels avoided getting swept against the Astros on Sunday as Reid Detmers picked up his first Major League win. Next is a lengthy road trip.

Brandon Marsh is working through some things at the Major League level. He’s hitting better of late.

Adam Eaton has been DFA’d. Chris Rodriguez is out for a while.

Jeff Fletcher compares Raisel Iglesias to Liam Hendriks…he might be pricey this offseason.

Around Baseball

In his first career Major League start, Diamondbacks pitcher Tyler Gilbert threw a no-hitter.

Triston McKenzie made a bid for baseball’s first perfect game since King Felix in 2012.

Fernando Tatis Jr. now plays the outfield.

Brandon McCarthy wonders why A-Rod is still on Sunday Night Baseball telecasts.

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2002heaven
Super Member
2 years ago

Raisel’s gonna want Liam Kendricks type money.
uh oh is this Zack Greinke all over again? Is he gonna go 30 miles up the FWY too or maybe he has a wife, mom, or GF who hates Anaheim,and Newport Beach? 😖  😥  😫 
Yep maybe we shooda traded him to the Dodgers for Josiah Gray to put alongside Detmers, Sandoval and Ohtani.

eyespy
Super Member
2 years ago
Reply to  2002heaven

I still want Champ

2pints
Trusted Member
2 years ago
Reply to  2002heaven

Josiah Gray for Raisel? Are you privy to discussions that haven’t been reported by any reputable MLB reporter, and honestly, wouldn’t make sense as a trade the Dodgers would do? Didn’t Gray net them one of Max/Turner (with the catcher netting the other player, essentially), and aren’t both of those players much more valuable than 2 months of Raisel? Basically I’m calling BS to your just-missed trade you’re dinging the Halos for not doing.

2002heaven
Super Member
2 years ago
Reply to  2pints

OK maybe Joc Peedersin and Rahss Striipleeng again.
Maybe wee shood just give him to the Doyers since they wannah win and YKW duzn’t……..
We can’t undoo 5 yrs of B*lly Eppl*r in 18 months. Rome was burned and sacked in a few days, but rebuilding it took much longer. 💪  💪  👈  🤘 

gitchogritchoffmypettis
Legend
Reply to  2002heaven

Why do you spell words like you’re daft? What are the mental steps that you have to take to decide that’s the thing to do? What place does it hold in your mind? Is it funny to you? Do you tell yourself people will laugh? Or is it cool to you, like you’re lord of the edge? Are you trying to imply that the comment you’re replying to is stupid by being stupid? If you’re borrowing that schtick it needs a ton of work. Am I missing something? I mean it. Maybe there is something amazing about you and your netskillz I am just totally not seeing.

Here’s a pro tip. You can’t try to string together a complex point AND communicate it like you’re a mental midget. You gotta pick one or the other. Otherwise you just suck at words. And WTF is up with asterisks and you? And emojis? You’re like the mystery no one wanted and even fewer people want solved.

eyespy
Super Member
2 years ago

Just ignore, and better yourself.

Twebur
Legend
2 years ago
Reply to  2002heaven

I know I’d rather live in LA over Newport……….I mean who would want that for their family, living in Newport Beach, with so many better options. This would be a good road trip to take a look at housing in Detroit and Baltimore, then fly back to the decaying shithole of LA and check that out.

2002heaven
Super Member
2 years ago
Reply to  Twebur

I didnt mean Skidrow
I mean Brentwood and the Hollywood Hills, still pretty decent and expensive ( plenty of celebs still live there don’t they? ). El Chapo Guzman and Carlos Slim……..if you have a lot of money you can live anywhere in comfort. I don’t always watch and listen to the 5 political cable news channels all the time. The rumor was that Zack Greinke’s wife didn’t like the Angels for some reason and that it wasn’t more money related ( some people here said that back at HH a few years ago ). I mean what’s to stop a player or person from playing or working for the Dodgers and living in Dana Point if you can afford it?
https://www.baltimoresun.com/features/home/bal-10-most-expensive-homes-for-sale-in-the-baltimore-area-20170619-photogallery.html
https://www.freep.com/story/money/real-estate/michigan-house-envy/2019/12/31/metro-detroit-real-estate-home-sale-datsyuk/2709478001/

Last edited 2 years ago by 2002heaven
FungoAle
Legend
2 years ago

There will be cheaper options, provide Rasiel a 1-yr qualifying offer @ $18.9M and if he turns it down, that’s ok. We’ll get a compensatory pick after round 1; either group A or group B depending on a salary threshold that he signs for. As H.T. correctly articulates, Rasiel will be out for Hendriks money for which Perry will not handcuff the team with.

Should have traded him…

Last edited 2 years ago by FungoAle
eyespy
Super Member
2 years ago
Reply to  FungoAle

Didn’t they balk at what we were asking for?

FungoAle
Legend
2 years ago
Reply to  eyespy

I’m hoping we can extend him but if his sticker price gets too hot, extend the QO. He’ll most likely turn it down and if he doesn’t, we’ll have a high-priced closer who will come off the books with Upton.

Last edited 2 years ago by FungoAle
Eric_in_Portland
Legend
2 years ago

why, if the MLB salary threshold is $210 million does Arte consider it to be around $180 million? That was the number in 2016. So it must be a self-imposed limit, I guess.

h27kim
Trusted Member
2 years ago

A lot would depend on how much money Arte would be able to get from developing the land that he bought, along with the Big A, no? After the land deal got struck, a lot of us thought, retrospectively, that one of the key factors behind the apparent reluctance to spend money was that he was saving up for the land deal and development. The deal happened (although I don’t know how “final” it is given the rumblings about possible legal infractions that came up….), but Covid happened so we never found out how much money “Peak Arte” would be willing to spend. But I do think that we should be able to expect more spending by Arte, with all the attendant caveats.

Last edited 2 years ago by h27kim
gitchogritchoffmypettis
Legend
Reply to  h27kim

Paying Trout and buying a huge chunk of land in So Cal could maybe possibly slightly have been a budgetary concern. But not if Arte were a real man. If he’s a true man of goodness and other stuff he’ll get that land and then use the power of positive thinking to manifest us a new stadium so he can have a 300M payroll and buy the Salty Nutz guy (and the rest of the staff) a house.

h27kim
Trusted Member
2 years ago

Says you, especially the Salty Nutz guy if he doesn’t spend money on, say, Ohtani gear. The positive thinking about, say, Ohtani (by other people, who have money to spend) would provide Arte with customers who would buy stuff at whatever developments he builds on his new property–in theory. If he could make money off of baseball that’s not technically baseball money, he could afford to lose money on baseball. Not sure how that has played out so far, though.

gitchogritchoffmypettis
Legend
Reply to  h27kim

It hasn’t played out at all so far…. him making money from other streams on the land he bought. It will though after it’s all built. Honestly, I think Arte will be dea before the new stadium actually opens.

eyespy
Super Member
2 years ago
Reply to  h27kim

Arte does not lose money

h27kim
Trusted Member
2 years ago
Reply to  eyespy

Neither does any other team. The real question is how you don’t lose money. The kind of actions attributed to the Angels management under the guise of “they don’t want to lose money” are usually short sighted and, often, quite stupid and self-destructive. Surely, I figure that they want to actually make money, not bury the money where their head apparently is.

gitchogritchoffmypettis
Legend
Reply to  eyespy

Who said he did? As interested as you are in Arte’s money I assume you’ll know first if he ever does.

eyespy
Super Member
2 years ago

He says

eyespy
Super Member
2 years ago
Reply to  h27kim

Peak Arte is willing to up to the threshold. Peak Arte will not pay other teams to beat him.

Jessica DeLine
Admin
Super Member
2 years ago

He seems to have a certain amount of operating income he’s willing to work with. The MLB threshold has always meant very little to him. His numbers is definitely his own. Business man first, baseball team owner second. He did increase it though in 2021.

Last edited 2 years ago by Jessica DeLine
gitchogritchoffmypettis
Legend
Reply to  Jessica DeLine

Who are the baseball team owners who are like “f*** business! I’m a team owner!”?

Jessica DeLine
Admin
Super Member
2 years ago

Dodgers? Yankees? Phillies? Mets?

gitchogritchoffmypettis
Legend
Reply to  Jessica DeLine

Aren’t worried about profit margin?

eyespy
Super Member
2 years ago

The franchise is the profit. Just don’t lose Madoff money, and when you sell, you make bank.

h27kim
Trusted Member
2 years ago
Reply to  Jessica DeLine

Add Tigers under Mike Illitch to that list. Not sure if Dodgers and current day Yankees (maybe) are quite in “f* business category, though: Dodgers, in particular, seem to have decided that spending money is actually a good investment b/c 1) a lot of their gambles have paid off; 2) they have enough in roster reserves so that they can weather some (unexpected) bad deals. 3) Some of the bad deals, they made willingly, so that they can build that roster depth that will cushion them against other, unexpected, bad deals.

eyespy
Super Member
2 years ago
Reply to  h27kim

The Dodgers are, get this, an organization

h27kim
Trusted Member
2 years ago
Reply to  eyespy

So, technically, is every other team in MLB.

eyespy
Super Member
2 years ago
Reply to  h27kim

Please with that sass. You should know what I mean.

Last edited 2 years ago by eyespy
Jessica DeLine
Admin
Super Member
2 years ago
Reply to  Jessica DeLine

I mean, all baseball teams are a business. I’m not saying they aren’t. But these other teams have been vocal about how bad they want to win and have shown it. Arte is a quiet man but has never show a passion for a ring, but just a passion for profit alone. You CAN do both.

gitchogritchoffmypettis
Legend
Reply to  Jessica DeLine

The team doesn’t have nearly the fanbase or revenue streams of the Yankees, Red Sux and Doyers. The Mets and Phillies…. meh, really? I mean sure, they talk… Met’s new owner may be the new Tom Hicks, which does mean talking and spending to win….

2002heaven
Super Member
2 years ago

Neither do the A’s, D-Rays, but somehow they make it work.
A*te hires less capable people on purpose just as his predecessor Donald Sterling did with his team. He thinks their a toy to torment and to agonize on purpose. 😖  Imagine if the A’s, D-Rays, Brewers, and Indians all had a extra $80M-100M to operate with!!

2pints
Trusted Member
2 years ago
Reply to  2002heaven

They’re just the Rays now. Haven’t been the D-Rays for a few years.

eyespy
Super Member
2 years ago
Reply to  Jessica DeLine

Dad’s? ChiSox? Stros?

eyespy
Super Member
2 years ago

$180M is where the team needs to be at for in season roster flexibility. I would think the team is budgeted to the full threshold of $210? But the GM can not go over.

Fansince1971
Legend
2 years ago
Reply to  eyespy

I honestly believe this is just a number with significant flexibility. With $110 million committed to only 3 players next season and then raises to Ohtani, Fletcher etc there is going to have to be flexibility to field a winner in 2022.

Unless you have inside information that the $182 million is a type of self-imposed cap, I do t think that we should presume that it is or that there is not flexibility.

gitchogritchoffmypettis
Legend
Reply to  Fansince1971

My guess is the flexibility comes when he knows what he’s paying for Trout, stadium, land deal. It’s hard to do forecasting otherwise. My fear is, with the latter two in limbo, he’s going to stay really conservative.

GrandpaBaseball
Legend
2 years ago

Injuries hamper every team, but only those teams that either get lucky and get a whole season out of their stars make the Playoffs usually. Those teams that have multi positional players that are better than good or trade for a replacement will continue on after an injury. Hawk Harrelson replaced the injured Tony Conigliaro by way of trade in mid season and caught lightning in a bottle. We picked up Mark Texcaira and he could not have been better. (Again the Yankees out bid us that off season). Not many teams lose their one big star like we have been missing Mike Trout. It is like having Humpty Dumpty every year. But losing all the AB’s by Trout and Redon and JUp when he seemed to have made a comeback is tough on a team and their record. The fact is we have done well hanging in there with a .500 record is extraordinary to say the least. I still believe we have a chance at that .500 mark.

eyespy
Super Member
2 years ago

Teams that actually invest in scouting and development win championships.

They are the ones that have a quick part of the team replacement for that injured starter.

Teams that invest in S&D can fill holes by trading for that player to take them to the promised land.

GrandpaBaseball
Legend
2 years ago

Paying a closer more than 12 or 13 mil per is insane. Paying anyone big bucks after a career year is crazy. Trouty is my favorite player ever, but from a business stand point his extension makes no sense as his prior few years showed us. Would I have been crazy too, unfortunately yes I would have as Arte had no choice. But signing Rendon was just silly at beast. I said so at the time, it does not matter now he is here and all we can hope for is not another Albert.

There is no Free Agent out here this off season that can help us, Story playing at Coor’s Field is not that good, Correa will not stay in the ALWD, Seager is to injury bound, and so resigning what we have is not a bad idea.

Trades can be done but why not pick at the scrap yard again. Extending Shohei this off season is silly as it would be another signing coming off a Career Year. Ohtani is not going any where for now.

There comes a time when resigning the young players comes and it comes fast for the good ones so bloating up to 220 mil does not mean a WS title, just ask the Yankees.

There is a lot of luck getting to the WS, such as the ’67 Red Sox or ’69 Mets or ’88 Dodgers, etc. Our biggest issue is with Trout. His body just has not held up. Keeping Gold Glove and Goose makes sense.

BTW I was for signing Machado after the ’18 season and most were against that signing including Arte. I appreciate that Arte went after Cole, but he alone would not have put us over the top imho. The Key for our team is Trout, end of story.

eyespy
Super Member
2 years ago

You don’t understand how rich the owners are and how much money they take in every season, from the game and just in life.

The players, and everyone involved with the teams, are vastly underpaid.

To win the World Series, if they really truly wanted to, they could shoot for the moon.

gitchogritchoffmypettis
Legend
Reply to  eyespy

You are right. You deserve so much more than life has given you…. I mean the players deserve so much more than Arte has given them.

So now what?

eyespy
Super Member
2 years ago

Does not deserve an honest reply

Fansince1971
Legend
2 years ago

Completely disagree. A top closer can mean the difference in winning ten close and late games at least. That’s the difference between 82 and 92 wins. That’s the difference between mediocrity and playoffs. The amount of money that can mean to a franchise is WAY more than $18 million.

And this is not a career year for him. In 7 seasons he has a lifetime ERA of 3.13.

Pay him and you’ve locked in a legit closer. It’s worth it.

GrandpaBaseball
Legend
2 years ago

DFA’ing Eaton was a surprise to me, but it was time to pull the handle.

JackFrost
Super Member
2 years ago

That shows they are serious about giving the kids playing time!

MarineLayer
Super Member
2 years ago
Reply to  JackFrost

I’m all about letting the kids show their stuff, notwithstanding what I said about Adam above. Also, I’m not if the better drop is Lagares.

Fleckstein
Trusted Member
2 years ago

The only surprise to me was that it was done before Trout was back and while CF Jesus was still having some hitting issues. But I did not shed a tear.

MarineLayer
Super Member
2 years ago
Reply to  Fleckstein

i love your nickname for him so much better than Gump.

MarineLayer
Super Member
2 years ago

They should’ve moved him to the BP. In addition to rostering two two-way players on the roster which would be cool, I bet he’d do better than several guys they are currently blowing games with. I’m only half kidding.

h27kim
Trusted Member
2 years ago
Reply to  MarineLayer

Eaton should really give it a try. I bet he’d be at least as good as Brooks Kieschnick both ways. He is still a decent (not quite “good”) backup OF and he is not too bad at pitching for an OF.

MarineLayer
Super Member
2 years ago

Rendon is the new long-term black cloud on the books that gives Moreno the excuse to avoid signing needed players. It’s amazing how this franchise always has a couple of these contracts on the books.

eyespy
Super Member
2 years ago
Reply to  MarineLayer

I have stated my case on this subject.

MarineLayer
Super Member
2 years ago
Reply to  eyespy

There is so much more we could do with the $36 million and rising over the next five years, like pay Shohei his deserved money.

Last edited 2 years ago by MarineLayer
2pints
Trusted Member
2 years ago
Reply to  MarineLayer

You’ve stated in several different threads that Rendon’s contract will not allow Arte to pay Ohtani. There is absolutely no reason to think this, let alone harp on it in every thread on this site. You talk of it like its a forgone conclusion and we should start planning Ohtani’s going away party right now. Please try to pump the breaks a bit on this line of thinking. Ohtani makes Arte more money than Trout ever will, I see no reason to think Atre will not pay Ohtani whatever he wants, assuming he continues playing close to the way he has this season.

eyespy
Super Member
2 years ago
Reply to  2pints

Oh, Shohei will get his money if he chooses to sign with the Angels, it’s just that three guys will be making 60% or more of the payroll when that happens.

Arte ain’t cheap, he knows nothing about rosters and budgets.

2pints
Trusted Member
2 years ago
Reply to  eyespy

OK, so what about having 3 guys making the majority of payroll is different from what Arte has ok’d in the past? Again, I see no reason for a doom and gloom when it comes to re-singing Ohtani. Do you?

DowningDude
Legend
2 years ago
Reply to  2pints

Thumbs up simply for using proper “re-sign vs resign” … Didn’t even see the rest of your comment. 😂

2pints
Trusted Member
2 years ago
Reply to  DowningDude

although I just noticed I still managed to misspell it lol

DowningDude
Legend
2 years ago
Reply to  2pints

Hahah. I was singing your praises incorrectly.

eyespy
Super Member
2 years ago
Reply to  DowningDude

I keep missing the minus sign

2002heaven
Super Member
2 years ago
Reply to  DowningDude

Ree Sign……corekt spelling.

eyespy
Super Member
2 years ago
Reply to  2002heaven

Don’t know if serrious.

eyespy
Super Member
2 years ago
Reply to  2pints

No I don’t. Resigning Ohtani gives us our best chance if the other players want to witness history with their own Lylein’ eyes. This won’t be the place to help finance that new abode for a few seasons.

2pints
Trusted Member
2 years ago
Reply to  eyespy

I guess I’m confused then on what exactly the point you’re trying to make is. Sorry

eyespy
Super Member
2 years ago
Reply to  2pints

I don’t see an issue either in re-signing Ohtani, but we won’t be able to sign championship caliber players unless they think watching Ohtani every night will make up the difference in salary.

2pints
Trusted Member
2 years ago
Reply to  eyespy

Signing championship caliber players is how we ended up with Pujols and Rendon, both having just won the WS prior to us signing them.

eyespy
Super Member
2 years ago
Reply to  2pints

I’m talking championship-caliber, not HoF first ballot.

Some real 27-30 year old, on the certificate, ready to win type players.

We got the hammers, now we need the nails

Simba
Trusted Member
2 years ago
Reply to  2pints

I sing and re-sing Ohtani every time he hits one out ….

gitchogritchoffmypettis
Legend
Reply to  2pints

This kind of thinking is why Trout as almost certain to sign with the Phillies or Yankees (because he loves Derek Jeter sooooo much).

eyespy
Super Member
2 years ago

So Trout signs with the Marlins? Is that what you are saying Butters?

gitchogritchoffmypettis
Legend
Reply to  eyespy

Sure, as long as cow magic keeps the seeds singing why not buy more crypto?

eyespy
Super Member
2 years ago

???

gitchogritchoffmypettis
Legend
Reply to  eyespy

Exactly.

angelslogic
Super Member
2 years ago

Eaton looked sharp when the Angels first acquired him. Lately, he couldn’t buy a hit and his arm turned into a noodle. Not sad to see him go.

eyespy
Super Member
2 years ago
Reply to  angelslogic

Something wore off

Fansince1971
Legend
2 years ago

We will see how serious this team is about winning. Raisel is 100% a key piece of the puzzle. He has got to be extended.

Pujols coming off the books is negated by the other huge contracts and the pending arb raises. Ohtani needs to be paid too.

Upton comes off the books in 2023 so arguably there might be an opportunity to spend in 2022 looking ahead to 2023 where that money can be accounted for.

There is almost zero chance that this team can stay within prior budgetary constraints in 2022 and win.

gitchogritchoffmypettis
Legend
Reply to  Fansince1971

An 18M over 2 years contract with a 3rd year team option should totally get it done right?

h27kim
Trusted Member
2 years ago

So, 36M for 2 years, plus 14 mil option for Year 3? (Which I think is the likely market for him, or close, at least….)

eyespy
Super Member
2 years ago
Reply to  h27kim

Who else is available? Closers are not traded too often, and when they are always cost a pretty penny and are rents.

Fansince1971
Legend
2 years ago

Yep – something around 2 years and $36 million with a team option. Then closer is checked off the list. There is value in that as well since Perry then can focus on other areas rather than trying to find a closer on the market.

gitchogritchoffmypettis
Legend
Reply to  Fansince1971

If we want to make sure we lock him up I say it takes 4/60.

eyespy
Super Member
2 years ago

That’s a cray-cray take-it-or-leave-it Mr. Moreno deal.

JackFrost
Super Member
2 years ago

That sounds about right.

Wonder if he’d accept a team option in the final year?

2002heaven
Super Member
2 years ago
Reply to  Fansince1971

We’re still ball & chained with the LF

Jeff Joiner
Editor
Legend
2 years ago

Keep in mind Arte operates based on actual cash flow not luxury tax calculations. Rendon has been paid well under his AAV the first two years and gets a massive raise this year, negating most of the Pujols savings.

But if Sandoval, Barria, Detmers essentially replace Bundy, Quintana, Heaney, that’s about an $18 difference.

Should that money go to D Cell? I can argue it either way.

Senator_John_Blutarsky
Legend
Reply to  Jeff Joiner

Here’s the 2021 “top” closer salaries:

Kenley: $20M
Chapman: $17.2M
Kimbrel: $16M
Will Smith: $13M
Hendriks: $11.3M
Rosenthal: $11M
Mr. Hand: $10.5M
D-Cell: $9.1M
Pressly: $8.7M
Vazquez (PIT): $7.7M
Diaz: $7M
Hader: $6.7M

I’d give Sam Bachman the opportunty to close games in 2022 and use the savings to pick up SP in a trade.

Jim Atkins
Super Member
2 years ago

Bachman has 4 innings pitched at High-A. I really don’t think he’s going to be ready to be a MLB closer anytime soon.

Senator_John_Blutarsky
Legend
Reply to  Jim Atkins

What’s more plausible: Bachman getting a chance to close, or Arte taking payroll above $185M?

2002heaven
Super Member
2 years ago

Definitely not the latter!!! 😆  😆  💪  👈 

steelgolf
Super Member
2 years ago
Reply to  H.T. Ennis

^ This ^ Trying to bring Bachman up now as a closer would be shortsighted and ruin his potential and development. It would basically be wasting a first round pick.

2002heaven
Super Member
2 years ago
Reply to  H.T. Ennis

Ky Bush?

Fansince1971
Legend
2 years ago

So you are willing to risk 1 and 2 run 9th inning leads to an unproven and untested player?

Senator_John_Blutarsky
Legend
Reply to  Fansince1971

The Angels are experts at giving leads to “untested and unproven” players.

The pre-draft G2 on Bachman was that he was close to being major league ready.

I guess we’ll need to wait and see – maybe Arte will surprise us.

MarineLayer
Super Member
2 years ago

It may also hold off further damage to his arm caused by his violent mechanics. Having a cost-controlled closer is worth a lot, based on your chart.

Last edited 2 years ago by MarineLayer
MarineLayer
Super Member
2 years ago

Thanks for this list. It puts things in perspective. Iglesias is going to be offered a big contract by someone.

2002heaven
Super Member
2 years ago
Reply to  MarineLayer

Braves…….always seem to have BP problems.

2002heaven
Super Member
2 years ago

Trevor Rosenthal was homeless on Skidrow just 2 years ago ( yes I’m being sarcastic, but bottomline anybody could’ve got him ). Being a closer is often times about being able to reinvent yourself like attending a Tony Robbins seminar.
Of course the Oakland A’s found him under a freeway overpass, who else besides the Giants or the Brewers?

Last edited 2 years ago by 2002heaven
eyespy
Super Member
2 years ago
Reply to  Jeff Joiner

Arte will spend up to the threshold per season, and that’s it. Being that the season calculations happen after the World Series, the team is stuck with not meeting the threshold so as to never go over.

Arte just sets a hard budget, he can easily afford to pay up to the threshold, and he supports that. He also needs to get what he wants and has no baseball sense in building a team with the monetary restraints he himself sets, then abuses with his wants.

We need to see what Arte is willing to give Ohtani. Shohei, no matter what, is first on the list this off-season. So, things will move slowly until that contract is taken care of. The talk of Shohei’s current contract will eat Arte up.

Fansince1971
Legend
2 years ago
Reply to  Jeff Joiner

Jeff – maybe five years ago I could argue it either way. Now I see there being only one possible course IF the goal is getting to the playoffs and winning now.

PRESUMING that is the goal, the team has to extend Raisel. Otherwise who is going to reliably close out the 1 and 2 run games?

eyespy
Super Member
2 years ago
Reply to  Fansince1971

Cishek? Joe has been grooming him all season with all that workload. Can’t have a closer if he can’t be in multiple innings every night.

Raisel is not coming back if he wants to be successful. That workload for a losing team is just terrible. Four outs a night, ten outs a series, is just redonkulous. Who in their right mind would want to do that much for no glory. Someone that like to lose, and closers do not like to lose.

Fansince1971
Legend
2 years ago
Reply to  eyespy

Cishek??!! (Said like Mora said “Playoffs??!!”)

JackFrost
Super Member
2 years ago
Reply to  eyespy

You’re not really an Angels fan are you ?

eyespy
Super Member
2 years ago
Reply to  JackFrost

Flagged for disrespect

JackFrost
Super Member
2 years ago
Reply to  eyespy

I’m kidding.

eyespy
Super Member
2 years ago
Reply to  JackFrost

[places it back in holster]

2002heaven
Super Member
2 years ago
Reply to  Jeff Joiner

excuse me JJ but who is D Cell? 🤔 

eyespy
Super Member
2 years ago
Reply to  2002heaven

Our closer. Raisel=DCell, as good as it gets

Senator_John_Blutarsky
Legend

When Trout, Rendon, and Upton account for $101M in 2022 base salary, spending $18M per year on a closer just isn’t realistic.

ihearhowie3.0
Super Member
2 years ago

I would be shocked if they don’t. He’s the only reason we’ve hovered around .500 so I don’t see how you take the next step to contention while creating a massive hole in the bullpen because of money.

Pujols is gone. Upton’s contract would overlap for 1 season. Guys like Walsh, Rodriguez, Detmers, Adell, Marsh hopefully represent some longer term low cost roster spots that used to cost a lot more money for guys like Quintana Fowler or Bundy.

JackFrost
Super Member
2 years ago
Reply to  ihearhowie3.0

Totally agree.

2002heaven
Super Member
2 years ago
Reply to  ihearhowie3.0

Bundy will be a Giant or Athletic next season.
Guy has a lot of talent and ability, but for whatever reason can’t seem to get it together. We don’t fix broken toys. 👈 

eyespy
Super Member
2 years ago
Reply to  2002heaven

“Players need to learn that type of thing in the minors.” Soth

matthiasstephan
Super Member
2 years ago

We only have 5 people locked up for 2022. So, add Fletch and Ohtani to your total there (9.5M), and then who else do we have to pay what?

In terms of position players, we have Marsh, Adell at league minimum), and IF we have Walsh (league min).

For the rotation, Sandoval, Detmers, Barria, Suarez all at league min.

In the pen, there is C Rodriguez, Quijada, Selman, Warren: all pre-arb.

They will cost, what, 600K each (league minimum or so).

So, we are at 120M. Add maybe 5M to account for Ward, Thaiss, Canning, Naughton, Rengifo, Wong …).

We have some Arb-eligible players (Stassi, Gosselin?, and some pitchers (Mayers, Guerra, Hoyt)). I don’t know that we keep them all.

With the remaining money we need a SS, a starter (or 2?) a backup Catcher, and the bullpen.

Can we afford not to have a closer? Can we keep Iglesias at 3x15M? Then get a SS that doesn’t cost 30M a year?

Senator_John_Blutarsky
Legend

The points you and Howie raise are valid, however Arte remains the owner. Between Arb raises, SS and potentially locking up Ohtani, we’ll be pushing up to $170M to $180M. The choice will be stark: do you want a high priced closer or stronger starting pitching? My preference would be stronger starting pitching.

matthiasstephan
Super Member
2 years ago

You have ‘arb raises, SS and locking up Ohtani’ at about 50M. Is that right?

I think we can lock Ohtani up longer term, and still have next year’s salary at 10M or so (twice what he makes now). (On assumption it is cash flow, not cap that Arte worries about).

SS shouldn’t cost bank, imo. If we are paying more than 20M, we are overpaying. I would rather have Jose Iglesias at less than 5M than pay that much. Simba would be cheaper, and a good transition until Jackson or someone on the farm can take over.

Whose raise will take the rest? If Stassi doubles in salary he is at 3M, same for many of the others. Do we keep Guerra? Hoyt? Mayers? Even Goose?

I think we have room for those, Raisel, and a starter. Who would you target? Who takes the rest of 30-40M?

2002heaven
Super Member
2 years ago

Arte made some pretty bad blunders over the past decade along with his not wanting to have a strong farm system and this is playing out very painfully since 2016. Albert, CJ Wilson, Hamilton, Rendon, Upton, Cozart which cost us a 2019 first round pick and next to zero young pitching talent for the past five seasons. were going to need at least 2 more good frontline SP’s simply because Ohtani’s probably never gonna have 30 starts a season. Alex Cobb and Ohtani have less than 20 starts each.
Ah Yes I almost forgot……..Wade Miley has 22 starts this season for Cincy.
Bullpens don’t matter without a quality start from somebody…………

JackFrost
Super Member
2 years ago

What good is “stronger starting pitching” if those games you are leading are blown in the 8th and 9th inning?

Closer is a must.

JackFrost
Super Member
2 years ago
Reply to  JackFrost

Also, Ohtani does not have to be locked up right away.

He is eligible for arb in what, 2023? We can let him know the plan, that we want to keep him, but wait until Upton money is off the books in another year.

James
Trusted Member
2 years ago
Reply to  JackFrost

Ohtani isn’t going anywhere. Upton will be thank goodness. Rendon? Urgh

Last edited 2 years ago by James
eyespy
Super Member
2 years ago
Reply to  JackFrost

Trout’s plan is really looking like it’s coming together.

You are going to need to pay Ohtani more sooner, or he will leave.

There is no plan. We can all see through the faint haze, and tin foil is not a mirror.

2pints
Trusted Member
2 years ago
Reply to  eyespy

Honest question: Do you really think there is no plan? After the draft they just had and them calling up every top prospect?

eyespy
Super Member
2 years ago
Reply to  2pints

Just little Dutch boy fixes, and the draft is a part of the job. Unless these draftees get really impressive in the next month, they can’t be traded to help us in 2022.

How does a draft in 2021 affect anything before needing to re-sign our closer, and Ohtani?

2pints
Trusted Member
2 years ago
Reply to  eyespy

You’re saying there is no plan. I think they’ve actually shown there is one since the draft and call-ups after the draft. Yes, the draft is part of the job, as is rostering 25 players. Who they draft or who they roster are actual choices that have to be made. Simply saying the draft is part of the job kind of forgets the fact that the team did something no team has ever done before, draft all pitchers. But to you that is just part of the job? Honestly, I”m not really following your argument, and it seems to have meandered more in your reply to me.

eyespy
Super Member
2 years ago
Reply to  2pints

No plan for the near, Trout’s window of opportunity, future.

2pints
Trusted Member
2 years ago
Reply to  eyespy

Drafting exclusively college pitchers would seem to be a plan to help the team a quickly as possible.

eyespy
Super Member
2 years ago
Reply to  2pints

In this system? Not the draft scouts if they did their job good. But this system can’t develop anything.

Out of the 18 players drafted, how many develop into important parts of the roster, dependable players? How many get traded for MLB grade level players? How many Aces for the mound do we get out of them 18, ready in the Summer of ’22? ’23? …

Trout’s window is not so big anymore, maybe Ohtani, but the team as it sits, will be a lot different when it’s ready for Ohtani.

2pints
Trusted Member
2 years ago
Reply to  eyespy

I know I haven’t been posting much until lately, but over the years I don’t remember you being this cynical.

eyespy
Super Member
2 years ago
Reply to  2pints

Cheering for a losing franchise will do that to you.

If I’m coming on too strong and you are taking offence or dilike. Please tell me, it’s not against you or others on this site.

It my opinion on this team, and how it is being run.

I deal a lot with these overly rich type dudes, and they are all the same when it comes to running things. It’s getting old that they step in and just business.

Last edited 2 years ago by eyespy
eyespy
Super Member
2 years ago

Reisel signs for no less than $20M a season, possibly four years, to the Yankees.

JackFrost
Super Member
2 years ago
Reply to  eyespy

I don’t think he’ll get that much.

He’s very good but Hendricks is only getting 11 million per and Kimbrel gets 16 mil. No way he gets 20 mil.

Last edited 2 years ago by JackFrost
JackFrost
Super Member
2 years ago
Reply to  H.T. Ennis

Yeah, I just saw that somebody else posted 3 yrs 54 mil for Hendricks.

But Blutarsky listed Hendricks’ salary above as 11.3 million for 2021, so I was trusting his number. Maybe his contract is back loaded for years 2 and 3??

Senator_John_Blutarsky
Legend
Reply to  JackFrost

I pulled the salary data from here:

https://www.spotrac.com/mlb/rankings/salary/closer/

eyespy
Super Member
2 years ago
Reply to  JackFrost

Who else is available? According to this site, nobody.

gitchogritchoffmypettis
Legend
Reply to  eyespy

Here you go. Tell us who else is out there that will likely replace Raisel.

Senator_John_Blutarsky
Legend

Jeff Mathis.

eyespy
Super Member
2 years ago

Premium comment of the day

eyespy
Super Member
2 years ago

A real closer is what I am talking about.

I ask Jack, and you make me do the heavy lifting, thanks mang.

What other top closer is Raisel’s competition in the free agent market next season?

That is the question.

eyespy
Super Member
2 years ago
Reply to  eyespy

Okay gitch, I’m all swol now.

But that list, it’s full of guys that have been qualified to collect social security for quite some time now.

Is our closer the only closer on that list?

I see all types of names that played for us at one time.

Did not know our closer was that old. I say he gets 3/$19M avg, but not from us.

Someone from within, or a dumpster, replaces Raisel

Last edited 2 years ago by eyespy
gitchogritchoffmypettis
Legend
Reply to  eyespy

Exactly. That list of FA relievers is pretty short of “real closers”, which is why, “according to this site” there isn’t really much of a replacement for Raisel out there.

We can gamble on finding a dumpster/prospect replacement, it wouldn’t be the dumbest thing ever if we spent that Raisel money on more pitching. It’s just a risk and won’t get us a sure fine champ closer like so many of us want.

gitchogritchoffmypettis
Legend
Reply to  JackFrost

I doubt he gets 20M AAV as well…. accept that he’s the only real closer on the market. Some team may just blow up the market for him.

eyespy
Super Member
2 years ago

They may not need to go over the $20M per, but they may offer him the real chance of a ring. Something that isn’t even a dream in Anaheim at the moment.

JackFrost
Super Member
2 years ago
Reply to  eyespy

I wouldn’t say that it “isn’t even a dream.”

Last edited 2 years ago by JackFrost
eyespy
Super Member
2 years ago
Reply to  JackFrost

How close are we really? I’m looking at 2023, but more like 2024 being a real shot at a title.

JackFrost
Super Member
2 years ago
Reply to  eyespy

A lot depends on what happens this off-season.

As stated we need to re-sign Raisel. Adding a top flight stater is important too.

And we need a couple of extra bullpen pieces and a functional short-stop. This is really not a long shopping list.

With those things in place next year we are not only competitive for the Division title but also the AL Pennant,

Last edited 2 years ago by JackFrost
eyespy
Super Member
2 years ago
Reply to  JackFrost

Cheaply, how much do you think that plan will cost?

gitchogritchoffmypettis
Legend
Reply to  eyespy

More than we have. I mean, is there a “top flight” FA starter? But Raisel, a top starter, two pen arms, a short stop…. that’s got to be at least 60M for next years right?

2002heaven
Super Member
2 years ago
Reply to  JackFrost

Kenley Jansen is the highest paid closer right now at $20M. He’s a FA BTW along with Kimbrel and Raisel. I don’t think the Dodgers are gonna sign anybody in fact they have a 100mph Latin kid blow torch in Brusdar Graterol. The Dodgers unfortunately for us Angel fans is they’re about as close a thing in MLB to Alabama Football right now with their loaded farm system. Thanks A*te and John Carf*no for having half the payroll all tied up in just 4 hitters 😥  😫  💩  They could repeat without Trevor Bauer who I think is probably done for the year anyway and on his way to Houston.

matthiasstephan
Super Member
2 years ago
Reply to  2002heaven

The Dodgers have more than 100M tied up in four players too (Jansen, Betts, Kershaw, Pollock) and another 45M in Price, Bellinger and Seager. That doesn’t even count Bauer.

I am not really seeing the argument about the Angels tying up all their salary in 3-4 players.

eyespy
Super Member
2 years ago

We have to buy most of our players because we don’t develop. We have to entice players to play here.

The Dodgers have a phone.

2002heaven
Super Member
2 years ago

Jansen, Seager are probably gone after this year ( meet Gavin Lux and Brusdar Graterol…….their farm replacements. ). David Price, AJ Pollock, and Justin Turner come off their books after next season. You could see 5 players gone by 2023. Dustin May will be ready to come off TJS by then to take David Price’s place. No need to dumpster dive when you don’t have to. 😫  😭 
In next year’s 2022 MLB Draft, will Perry pick 10 infielders and 10 SP’s from the South Eastern Conference?………..

James
Trusted Member
2 years ago

I really wish Upton and his contract was up today. Why today? Why not. Also wish they kept the receipt on Rendon and there was a return policy. Kind of like Walmart. It would be nice to see Trout back in the line up also. Even just to swing the bat.

eyespy
Super Member
2 years ago
Reply to  James

Berries and Nuts Jimmy, berries & nuts.

eyespy
Super Member
2 years ago

Over 50% to three players, and unwilling to go over the threshold, is not the way to build a winning (<.500) much less a contender for the postseason.

2pints
Trusted Member
2 years ago
Reply to  eyespy

It can be if the a majority of the team is young and making minimum or close to it, which the recent draft and promotions are leaning towards. Its not an easy way to build a contender, but if the cheap kids play to their potential then they could make a run. Not a big margin for error though, I’ll give you that.

eyespy
Super Member
2 years ago
Reply to  2pints

If, and it is not happening now.

We are at least two seasons away from your If factor, and that is pushing it, because other things will need to be replaced in two seasons.

Baseball, to be a Champion, is a now game, no more dynasties.

2pints
Trusted Member
2 years ago
Reply to  eyespy

Everything we talk about here is “ifs” unless we’re talking about the recent game.

eyespy
Super Member
2 years ago
Reply to  2pints

Yes. If, the young players, all the young players, become Major Leagues, then that plan will work. None are proven as of yet.

gitchogritchoffmypettis
Legend
Reply to  eyespy

If by “all” you mean 2-3 prospects per year, including the guys we have up on the 25 man now and Canning, then yeah, you’re right. We’ll need that for the next 5 or so years, mostly in the blow pen.

If only our GM could see that and then hatch a plan to draft a bunch of arms, including guys who seem to be destined for relief rolls…..

eyespy
Super Member
2 years ago

To contend next season we need so much more that the normal 2-3 to step up.

Some to play here and some trade that are ready to play sooner than later.

eyespy
Super Member
2 years ago
Reply to  H.T. Ennis

We can’t afford starting pitch and a pen to put us over the top in talent. And we have no infield.

NO REBUILDS

matthiasstephan
Super Member
2 years ago
Reply to  eyespy

No infield? We do have both Fletch and Walsh, no? And despite the doom and gloom, I bet Rendon is back to form in 22.

h27kim
Trusted Member
2 years ago

Yeah, even if we wind up with a “middling shortstop” next year, the starting lineup has to be at least pretty good, if healthy. The real questions are pitching and the bench. But, after what we’ve seen so far, I am actually confident that the FO can put together a competent bench. BUT, if we are still thinking that we can rely on Ohtani (who will never be a “full time ace” as long as we need his bat in the lineup and a mix of young pitchers and some has-beens to fill out a rotation, we’ll be in serious trouble, and we’ll still be in trouble if we don’t retain R. Igelesias….

eyespy
Super Member
2 years ago

Two players do not make an infield, but yes Rendon returns. I should have been more clear on this, we need a SS and some back up for the infield. h27 has what I am thinking below.

We really need a lot of talent to replace and upgrade if we want to contend next year.