Angels waste more starting pitching in 2-0 loss

Angels 0 Mariners 2

The Angels, for the second consecutive night, wasted a wonderful starting pitching performance and conceded the victory to a somehow not-so-lowly Mariners squad.

It’s a shame because Halos starter Patrick Sandoval chipped in a magnificent start – one of the best starts the Angels have had all year. Across seven innings of 2-run ball (114 pitches!), Sandoval struck out six and walked two, keeping Mariners hitters off-balance much of the night. Unfortunately, Seattle was able to scrape together two runs including a Luis Torrens triple in the sixth, which was enough to make the difference as Angels bats ran cold.

The reason for that? Mariners starter Chris Flexen, who matched and even outpitched Sandoval. With 19 less pitches thrown, Flexen went the same distance with the same K’s and BB’s but with three fewer hits allowed and gave up zero runs. In fact, the Angels only had those three hits all night. Shohei Ohtani struck out twice, including on a nonsense strike 3 call at least 2-3 baseballs off the outside edge.

It’s a frustrating night for the Angels, who after looking poised after Boston, can’t hang with a team they should be handily defeating. Go get ’em tomorrow.

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Senator_John_Blutarsky
Super Member

The growth of Sandoval continues to impress. Having young, controllable pitching talent on the MLB roster this season beyond Ohtani is great news for the franchise in the coming seasons.

Regardless of the outcome, every game means we’re one day closer to getting the AAAA players off the 40 man roster. If that’s the best news this season, I’m really OK with it.

Last edited 18 days ago by Senator_John_Blutarsky
tanana40
Trusted Member
18 days ago

Well, perhaps one out of three is okay?

Cowboy26
Super Member
18 days ago
Reply to  tanana40

But I thought 2 out of 3 ain’t bad.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k5hWWe-ts2s

gitchogritchoffmypettis
Super Member

I know. My outrage is supposed to be all engorged and I am supposed to roundly declare that a bunch of guys ten times more talented than I am at anything “harv nor place on thiz roztar!” and that “der GM is an idiot!” followed “derp derp dee derp bullpen.” and what ever the f*** constant tired complaints else we just drizzle out our flat dead brains these days. Tonight’s game sucked ass. So did last nights.

The thing is, it underscored a couple things. First, this team generally isn’t a bunch of zombies. These last two games they were, but it made me more aware that this first half they remain aggressive even when they are down, even by significant amounts of runs. This is the case while the pen sucks and the pitchers suck and the suck sucks and wah wah wah. It’s the case while Trout, Upton and Rendon are out. While Stassi was out. While plenty of other guys were out. That piss poor line up we saw tonight hasn’t been that uncommon this year, but even those scrubs tend to fight. Plus, to spite the fact that we heap enough negativity on them to mold a bowl of rice with our vibes, it looks like we may have some OK starting pitchers. Which brings me to another realization. The team’s at .500 at the All Star break.

I know. If I were a real champion on the inside and other bullshit then I would demand we win a World Series by the All Star break and we’d have the Ray’s MiLB farm and clean fusion generators and real men being real like back when men were real. I know I’m supposed to be throbbing with indignation at how far out of the AL West race this team is. Still, if the hated Matt Wise can get Suarez, Cobb, Sandoval and Ohtani to all be much better than last year, if the hated PTP/Matt Swanson team has a solid draft, if the actual line up for this team ever actually plays and hits the snot out of the ball and we finish over .500 I guess I’m pretty much getting what I hoped for.

So yeah, I guess I’m actually interested in the 2nd half, and no, it’s not just because of Ohtani…. who apparently isn’t washed up.

Fansince1971
Super Member
18 days ago

Gitcho – I generally agree and to be at .500 despite all the injuries (including tthe biggest to Trout) is a great accomplishment.

I think the team’s ‘never say die’ approach generally works best facing average pitching. They are frequently dominated by quality, strike throwing, pitching with few exceptions. But that is why pitching wins Championships and is the difference between 81-83 wins and 92-95 wins.

We are watching the Angels’ primary weakness displayed in technicolor in this series and it sucks. There it is for all to see – a well constructed and dominant bullpen on one side and sheer crap on the other. It is why the M’s are having an unexpectedly good season – and it is particularly bothersome to many because it was Dipoto who crafted it.

I personally give this team a lot of credit to even be relevant after losing Trout for 2 months and Rendon with 4 injuries and 3 stints on the IL and Upton getting injured while he was hot (hitting well for the first time in a very long time). Those are things that most teams fold on. It’s also why I think Ohtani is the clear MVP this far.

That said, I remain very bitter about this blo’pen. I find I am feeling physically ill while watching them walk batter after batter. Perry did little to address the team’s most basic need – other than signing Raisel.

That is where my frustration comes from. This is a team with 2 MVP candidates as well as the amazing Fletch, Walsh and Stassi having a breakout season not to mention a decent season at the plate by Iglesias and, when healthy, Rendon and Upton. This is a team that should absolutely dominate with even an average bullpen. The fact that it’s such a Tale of Two Cities team is extremely frustrating to me.

Last edited 18 days ago by Fansince1971
Senator_John_Blutarsky
Super Member
Reply to  Fansince1971

I agree with the premise, however I still believe the development of a bullpen by acquiring cast-offs is a guessing game at best. Jedi seems to have guessed correctly, whereas Perry didn’t do too bad with the exception of Q who has been a disaster.

Unless the talent is home grown, it’s just a guess and hope for the best.

2002heaven
Trusted Member
18 days ago
Reply to  Fansince1971

Which means they can afford to be without Upton and his $21M a year contract
No future FA should be signed beyond 3 yrs anymore, including Babe Ruth, Willie Mays, Walter Johnson and our former 1B who now resides at Chavez Ravine. BTW what the hell, I was right again! Two yrs ago back at HH I suggested that Ohtani give up pitching and be our fulltime RF for us……he’s on pace to smash Troy Glaus’s ( Y2K HR record of 47 ) and the late Don Baylor’s season single season RBI record ( 139 in 1979 ). Shohei Ohtani is my one kudo for Billy Eppler and it’s clearly the only one he’ll get from me, Griffin Canning has been so so while Chris Rodríguez has been just injury riddled. Eppler and Swanson’s record with HS prep stars clearly proves that we’re as good at HS player development as cattle are at climbing trees. 😣  😰 

Fansince1971
Super Member
18 days ago
Reply to  2002heaven

Do you give any credit to Eppler for Stassi? Sandoval?

eyespy
Super Member
18 days ago
Reply to  Fansince1971

Stassi? Who knew?

Sandolval. Wasn’t he just an extra to make the Maldy trade look even for the International slot money that got us The Worlds Greatest Saiko Ichiban Nunbah One Player in for evers Shohi Ohtani?

So meh, Eppy gets credit for being here when the deals were done. Couldn’t a done it without him.

Fansince1971
Super Member
18 days ago
Reply to  eyespy

I think we have a tendency to vilify or heroize on this site. The reality lies more in the center. I honestly don’t think Eppler was a terrible GM – he was a good communicator and his landing of Ohtani alone probably justified his 5 years. That said, he and his team were NOT great evaluators of pitching in my opinion and failed to draft pitching when it was sorely needed.

Jedi and his team were pretty darn good at evaluating pitching and built a heck of a bullpen in 2014 – but was generally mediocre in evaluating offense talent (see Taylor Ward).

We need Perry to put it all together. He’s got a pretty solid offense to work with. Now we just need pitching – at least one starter and 2 solid bullpen pieces and this team could really be special. I am all for trading the top talent on the farm if it can land those arms on more than a rental basis.

Last edited 18 days ago by Fansince1971
eyespy
Super Member
18 days ago
Reply to  Fansince1971

Billy was okay, and it was the meddling of the owner that did him in plus he hired the WORSY manager for that time in Asumus. Asumus did Billy in.

Ward had to be believing and trusting to people under him. Not totally understanding that our scouting and developmental departments were trash. There is no way you couldn’t see how bad that kid was. Do they even talk to these players before drafting them?

The problems with the team we try to field starts with the owner and his cronies. They started here with no baseball knowledge, and learned everything they “needed to” know from Mike Scioscia, but mostly let Mike do the baseball stuff.

After Mike left, they still thought they knew the baseball things, and even started to change their knowledge of the game to suit their needs. They hire a GM, tell him what he has to work with, then meddle with the team to fit their needs. Because, why not.

Someone in the system is a nit picker, and they take that all the way down to the field level. Until the roof gets fixed, everything below will just rot. It’s not hard to hire good, dedicated, people with vision in baseball. They just need to give them the best view of the whole system. Because, unlike our owners, they do want everyone to see the successes of their hard labor. Who can say “Down in front” to Mr. Moreno? Not the people he hires.

Fansince1971
Super Member
18 days ago
Reply to  eyespy

I agree and it leads to the whole discussion of separating Baseball Ops from marketing which has never occurred under More o. In turn that leads to crappy decisions like cutting scouting and player development.

The top tier of the Angel Org are all marketing folks other than Perry. Moreno has cut in all the places that good teams spend – scouting, player development, strength and conditioning. I could go on and on and have in prior posts. I just don’t see anything changing until guys like Dennis Kuhl and Carpino are involved only in marketing decisions and do not touch Baseball Ops.

eyespy
Super Member
18 days ago
Reply to  Fansince1971

If we keep going on like this we will break the first commandment of this site.

2002heaven
Trusted Member
18 days ago
Reply to  Fansince1971

Max Stassi and Patrick Sandoval are just solid back end guys.
What could we get for either one of those guys in a trade as opposed to Jered Walsh or Shohei Ohtani? Why does Madden start Suzuki a lot still BTW, he probably isn’t completely sold on Stassi yet. I’m not sold on Stassi as a .300 hitter ( career .231 hitter according to Baseball Ref…..and hit just .226 in 2018 for HOU when he played 88 games for them ). They’re decent players, but not world beaters……That’s the point of my wrath on Eppler’s 5 yr body of work here.

eyespy
Super Member
18 days ago
Reply to  2002heaven

Suzuki is bad at catching, and should not start at all.

Since Max’s return, it’s been about a 2-1 ratio on starts for Max. But Max does need his rest, and we will see if he can keep that pace with his bat.

Suzuki gets starts from Joe because he should as the number 2 catcher. It’s what we got.

WallyChuckChili
Super Member
19 days ago

I’d like to give a shout out to Mayfield for taking up a 25 man roster spot and getting paid for doing absolutely Jack Shit in the batter’s box.

In 6 games with the Angels this year he is batting .000

Fansince1971
Super Member
19 days ago

Mayfield, Rengifo, Q, Cishek and Claudio. That’s 20% of the roster that are simply awful.

Cowboy26
Super Member
18 days ago
Reply to  Fansince1971

Add Taylor ward to that elite group and you’re up to 23%

eyespy
Super Member
18 days ago
Reply to  Cowboy26

Bundy, and does that make it two bits?

Last edited 18 days ago by eyespy
Cowboy26
Super Member
18 days ago
Reply to  eyespy

Over 1/4 . Now 27%

eyespy
Super Member
18 days ago
Reply to  Cowboy26

Who the hell has pennies to spare?

gitchogritchoffmypettis
Super Member

That game was so exciting that I started watching a Youtube video on stable African economies and it was so much more exciting I actually never went back to the game.

On the flip side, I never thought I’d read the word “two strait games good pitching” to describe this team. So that’s nice.

Eric_in_Portland
Super Member
19 days ago

then there was that Dodger game. Ugh.

MarineLayer
Trusted Member
19 days ago

This ump made this game unwatchable. What a disgrace he was.

Cowboy26
Super Member
19 days ago

Starting a lineup with at least 3 substandard hitters ( Mayfield, Ward & Lagares) against competent starting pitching and a lock down bullpen will result in substandard results and doesnt really matter how good our starting pitching is or how crappy our blowpen is.

Mia
Super Member
Mia
19 days ago

Can’t afford to lose games when the pitching is this good. 1/162. Keep it moving.

Eric_in_Portland
Super Member
19 days ago
Reply to  Mia

My considered opinion…

Cishek is not good. Claudio is not good. Quintana is not good. Mayers is not good. Buttrey is better than all of them but even if Buttrey were on the team replacing one of those we’d still have 3 of them.

benjiface
Trusted Member
18 days ago

The three-batter rule minimum really hurts with a guy like Claudio too, who has a hard time getting one guy out, much less three.

eyespy
Super Member
18 days ago
Reply to  benjiface

Like eating a steak across the grain. Looks, and tastes the same, but boy is it tough to chew and swallow.

Fansince1971
Super Member
18 days ago
Reply to  benjiface

Which is all the more reason to bring him into the game.

eyespy
Super Member
18 days ago
Reply to  Fansince1971

comment image

TrojanBoiler
Member
18 days ago
Reply to  benjiface

Technically he only has to face 3, not get them out. Just enough to load the bases!

Eric_in_Portland
Super Member
19 days ago
Reply to  Mia

Wow. Thank you, maid!

Mia
Super Member
Mia
19 days ago

Who knows how many lives they just saved.

OMAHALOFAN
Trusted Member
18 days ago
Reply to  Mia

Man, that’s my hotel of choice when I’m in Denver to watch the Halos, crazy.

Eric_in_Portland
Super Member
19 days ago

Now that I’ve seen it I think that video should be sent to new york or wherever. No wonder Shohei had a problem in the 9th.

If my comment after the game in the game thread got lost, Acuna is done for the year with an acl tear so were lucky to get Trout back.

Fansince1971
Super Member
19 days ago

I hope the team sends several calls to MLB by that umpire. He was awful

GrandpaBaseball
Super Member
19 days ago

Second time we have had him and both times horrible results. Only the Union can fix this huge problem of terrible Umpires by weeding out 15% of the bad Umpires yearly. Send them to the minor leagues until they can get to 92% correct calls, a rules test included.

Do not leave replay decision makers out of this either.

JackFrost
Super Member
19 days ago

What video ??

Eric_in_Portland
Super Member
19 days ago
Reply to  JackFrost

That one up there where the ump is so wrong that the most polite major leaguer has to make a short hand gesture signalling his disagreement.

WallyChuckChili
Super Member
19 days ago

We are wasting Patrick Sandoval

max
Trusted Member
max
19 days ago

Are we witnessing a pitching prospect realizing his potential? In the Halos’ org.?

WallyChuckChili
Super Member
19 days ago
Reply to  max

We didn’t Draft him, so maybe.

Cowboy26
Super Member
18 days ago

But he’s been in the organization long enough for our “development” team to ruin him, so this is a very encouraging sign.

eyespy
Super Member
18 days ago
Reply to  Cowboy26

LET THE MIND GAMES BEGIN!

Fansince1971
Super Member
19 days ago

Iglesias was responsible for the two runs tonight. His D was terrible – awful throw and didn’t respond to the waive off by Fletch.

Umpire was awful and inconsistent and stifled the offense.

Mariners pitching is for real. DiPoto knows how to build bullpens.

Angels bullpen is an albatross around Perry’s penguin neck.

Sandoval is a huge bright spot.

Overall a waste of 4 hours.

Eric_in_Portland
Super Member
19 days ago
Reply to  Fansince1971

We scored zero. That’s the blame of the game.

WallyChuckChili
Super Member
19 days ago

Can’t win if we don’t score runs

JackFrost
Super Member
19 days ago

Unfair strikezone really hurts…

Eric_in_Portland
Super Member
19 days ago
Reply to  JackFrost

Sure did.

steelgolf
Trusted Member
18 days ago
Reply to  Fansince1971

Iglesias and his 10 cent head almost took Fletch out for the season. Fletch was 2 steps from the bag and here comes Iglesias, charging from 15 steps, right into Fletch. Did he not trust Fletch’s arm in that situation or is he the type of player who thinks he is a one man team and runs all over the field, out of position, to try and make every play? I see a few of those type players in Little League, and it usually turns out bad, and they have to be coached out of that mindset.

WallyChuckChili
Super Member
19 days ago

comment image

FungoAle
Trusted Member
19 days ago

Seattle is an underrated team. Lockdown bullpen we can only dream about. Happy takeaway, the continuing emergence of Patrick Sandoval. Hoping the best is yet to come.

benjiface
Trusted Member
18 days ago
Reply to  Rahul Setty

I’d like to see some of the guys in the rotation hung too! But not Sandoval

Cowboy26
Super Member
18 days ago
Reply to  benjiface

Now I think I know how you feel about the team’s execution

eyespy
Super Member
18 days ago
Reply to  benjiface

Mean, rope, burn

Fansince1971
Super Member
19 days ago
Reply to  FungoAle

With that bullpen the Angeks would have 54-plus wins.

Fansince1971
Super Member
19 days ago
Reply to  Fansince1971

Meaning 54-plus at the AS break.

JackFrost
Super Member
19 days ago
Reply to  FungoAle

ALOT of help from umpires. THIS is why their record is better than ours. Bullpen notwithstanding. If umpires give one side all the close calls that is a HUGE advantage.

We consistently get the short end of the stick, especially against divisional foes (remember those series in Houston???).

More of the same here, both with ball/strike calls AND official replays.

H.T. Ennis
Admin
Super Member
18 days ago
Reply to  JackFrost

I mean that’s not at all why their record is better, but go off.

https://twitter.com/UmpAnalysis/status/1412971904256856066

eyespy
Super Member
18 days ago
Reply to  H.T. Ennis

https://twitter.com/UmpScorecards/status/1414226712766910465

So what would be a good score? Looks like above 95% umpire-wise, 98% game-wise. When I just look at it I think 90% must be missing some borderline calls that make no difference to the game, at all. 90% is a fucking terribly called game

But when you have seen just about every pitch made in a game that 90% turns into a trash game. I haven’t dug into the site, it is already suspect to me, but who runs it that makes it reputable. What would 50% look like, because an umpire would need to be in the dressing room to be that bad here.

What is considered a good score? Above 95% Bad? Most of them

Why do they go from 0-100%(kinda large in the range)? Higher numbers so the score doesn’t fluctuate too much between outings?

They don’t bring up the missed call on Marsh that came in the AB following the #2 on their list. The score was 1-0 at that time and we were still very much in it if those AB’s were called correctly.

I started with a rage, woke up with my head hurting like it’s under pressure, too dense to start looking things up, but ended up trying to. Because I should. Might have figured things out, probably not. That site is not critical enough, and just goes by the statcast pitch data, not the actual game progress of the bad call. Just the hard facts, minus the feelings.

Thinking about this. MLB Umpiring reminds me of the TSA. All employees are held to the same standard of excellence no matter the skill level and dedication of that employee. They are all the same and the results are final. Their rules, deal with it. They call them as they see them.

H.T. Ennis
Admin
Super Member
18 days ago
Reply to  eyespy

Don’t get me wrong, that was a terrible game. I strongly strongly strongly take issue with the following statement: “THIS is why their record is better than ours.”

And that prompted my comment.

Is it possible that they’ve had extremely good umpire distribution luck? Yes. Is it likely? No.

eyespy
Super Member
18 days ago
Reply to  H.T. Ennis

Sorry LOVE. The comment wasn’t a jab at you. Not at all.

That site, Umpires Scorecard. I’ve seen it and you have brought it up a few times, but that is about it. Don’t know how reputable it is. What is their angle? To get a job with MLB?

The scoring needs to be explained a little better, and the calling of pitches needs to be broader. Just right/wrong isn’t enough to come to a fair conclusion as to which umpires are trash or just bad.

0-100% is still too broad for me. Need something more, but then it just an eye test, and they are never fair, they always will have a bias.

Personal opinion here: I don’t think that umpires have it out for particular teams, except BAL they are all out to get them Trick or Treaters, but I do feel they are out to work on particular players. Grudges are a bitch, and so are umpires. I was one for almost nine seasons.

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