Tyler Skaggs family sues Angels, Eric Kay, and Tim Mead

In two separate lawsuits, the family of deceased Angels pitcher Tyler Skaggs is suing the Angels, Eric Kay, and Tim Mead. One suit is filed in Texas by Skaggs parents and the second is filed in California by his widow.

The suits allege the Angels knew Kay was an opiate addict and did not properly supervise him. The family alleges it was negligent for the Angels to give Kay access to players considering his drug abuse history.

A brand new development is Mike DiGiovanna’s assertion that Kay was supplying illicit drugs to five other Angels players.

The deadline to file the suits was Thursday, the two year anniversary of Tyler’s passing due to an accidental overdose.

This is a continuing story and we will cover it. Anybody with a legal background who has something to add in the comments will be greatly appreciated.

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eyespy
Super Member
3 years ago

Looks to me that Shohei is very sensitive to Tyler Skaggs’ passing.

YOUknowulovetheIE
Trusted Member
3 years ago

These players also shouldn’t be out at bars getting shit faced during the season. Yeah, throw back a few after a w, but to get smashed all the time make it sound like these guys have drinking issues as well.

El_Duderino
Trusted Member
3 years ago

Is anybody else really curious who the other five players are?

I bet I could guess three or four of them (but I won’t do it here of course).

Last edited 3 years ago by El_Duderino
max
Trusted Member
max
3 years ago
Reply to  El_Duderino

I am. Heaney was supposedly his BF on the team.

Fansince1971
Legend
3 years ago

I read the actual lawsuit and it confirmed my suspicions that, in addition to compensatory damages, the lawsuits are seeking ‘exemplary’ aka punitive damages against the Angels. Punitive damages are (at least in California) not insurable and if there is an award of punitive damages, it would have to be paid by the team or individuals against whom that award is made (ie not by the involved insurance companies).

That is why Tim Mead is so critical to the case and the only reason (in my opinion) he was sued. To obtain punitive damages against the Angels the Plaintiffs will have to prove management in the Organization had knowledge that Kay’s drug supplying to the players was taking place. Mead was likely high up enough in the Organization to make that link.

I can see no other reason for Mead’s involvement. The Plaintiffs do not need Mead for negligence to be established since Kay was an employee of the Angels at the time he was allegedly supplying drugs to players and was allegedly doing so within the course and scope of his employment. So Kay’s actions would be imputed to the Angels via a doctrine called Respondeat Superior and that is enough to get to compensatory damages which are covered by insurance. Kay was not high up enough, however, to implicate the Organization from a punitive damages standpoint.

To obtain punitive damages against the Angels, a link to upper management was necessary and that is why Tim Mead is involved.

My presumption is that Plaintiffs seeking punitive damages are a sticking point in settlement negotiations. They want money from the team, outside of insurance coverage, and my presumption is that is why the case has not settled.

Fansince1971
Legend
3 years ago
Reply to  Fansince1971

I will add that the punitive damages allegations are, to me, an indication that any relationship that existed between the Organization and the Skaggs family has deteriorated. Had the family only been seeking compensatory damages for negligence, this matter probably would have settled with insurance company money. However the claim for punitive damages means the family wants to make an example of/punish the Organization for its alleged involvement. That is why we keep hearing the Angels say they had ‘no knowledge’ of Kay’s actions. The Plaintiffs clearly want Organization money in addition to insurance dollars.

steelgolf
Super Member
3 years ago
Reply to  Fansince1971

Question : If someone, say Tim Mead or Arte Moreno had an umbrella policy, would that possibly cover punitive damages?

Senator_John_Blutarsky
Legend
Reply to  steelgolf

I’m in “barnyard lawyer” terrority and really don’t know, but wouldn’t it depend on the coverage limits? If insured liability was capped (for example) at $10M, the issue becomes who has the deepest pockets beyond the insurance coverage.

Fansince1971
Legend
3 years ago

No. Punitive damages cannot be insured in California as a matter of public policy.

Presuming liability, the jury is asked to give a compensatory damages award and then there is usually a separate punitive damages phase. The insurance would cover the compensatory damages but not any punitive damages awarded.

Last edited 3 years ago by Fansince1971
Fansince1971
Legend
3 years ago
Reply to  Fansince1971

I’ll also add that I expect the Angels will attempt to get rid of the punitive damages part of the case via first Demurrer (likely to be denied) and later by Motion for Summary Judgment. That can be a long time from now (at least one year and likely longer) so I would not expect this case to go away anytime soon. As long as the potential for punitive damages exists, the case is unlikely to settle.

Senator_John_Blutarsky
Legend
Reply to  Fansince1971

Thanks!

Senator_John_Blutarsky
Legend
Reply to  Fansince1971

I would guess that the comparative and contributory negligence on Skaggs part will be a significant point of contention. Arte’s legal team will tear Skaggs legacy to shreds

Fansince1971
Legend
3 years ago
Reply to  steelgolf

Not in California. Punitive damages are not insurable in the state.

AnAngelsFan
Super Member
3 years ago
Reply to  Fansince1971

Skaggs died in Texas. There is at least some argument that Texas law should apply. I believe Texas law permits coverage of punitive damages in the absence of gross negligence, and depending on the policy language used.

Fansince1971
Legend
3 years ago
Reply to  AnAngelsFan

That’s interesting. I am not aware of Texas law on the issue of punitive damages. That could be an interesting issue given that one lawsuit was filed in Texas and the other California.

eyespy
Super Member
3 years ago
Reply to  steelgolf

I don’t think they are going after the money so much as they are going after the establishment.

They already have money, and will get paid handsomely eventually, so why not go after who they seem responsible for the wrongful death of their loved one.

AnAngelsFan
Super Member
3 years ago
Reply to  Fansince1971

This isn’t a clear-cut case of respondeat superior. There is a good chance dealing illicit drugs falls outside the scope of employment. Thus, in addition to punitive damages, allegations about a culture of playing through injuries, Mead’s knowledge, and negligent supervision of a known drug addict will help strengthen the case for compensatory damages directly from the Angels as well.

Fansince1971
Legend
3 years ago
Reply to  AnAngelsFan

Agreed – that’s why I said ‘alleged’. However IF it is shown Kay supplied drugs to Tyler on team road trips or during work hours (whatever those hours may be) it’s going to be tough for the Angels to get around respondent superior. All that needs to be shown is that the negligent act occurred while Kay was acting as an Angel employee. Even though dealing drugs was not part of his work responsibility for the Angels (obviously) if he did so during his hours of employment or on the job with the team it’s going to be hard to get around that from a respondeat superior standpoint.

PedroCerrano
Super Member
3 years ago

Drugs have been in the game forever and I personally know former MLB guys who were playing everyday with addictions as playing 180 games in a year is brutal on the body. When one of them I know told a teammate that was supplying his pain relievers that he felt better and didn’t need them for the playoffs the response he got was “Don’t f*** with my paycheck, take the pills”. That ex-teammate has since been a Manager for several teams and is generally well respected. That’s not third person hearsay but direct from the player involved. Fortunately he turned his life around but he had to step away from baseball to make that happen.

The whole situation is sad and while I feel for the family this is about money. We all get to decide who we get to be and make thousands of decisions that lead to that sum total. Hopefully the other players involved are getting some help.

bradllee424
Trusted Member
3 years ago
Reply to  PedroCerrano

I believe this is happening all throughout not only baseball but other sports as well. Unfortunately I do think this will be happening to other teams as well. This is not just an Angels problem but an entire MLB, NBA & NFL problem.

eyespy
Super Member
3 years ago
Reply to  bradllee424

I feel this is the problem that the plaintiffs are going after.

Somewhere, someone, should have not looked the other way because of this common action of drug abuse is sports.

This may be the straw that breaks the camel’s back.

bradllee424
Trusted Member
3 years ago
Reply to  eyespy

These players have no shame today. Look at Bauer. This guy is a POS.

Angels2020Champs
Legend
3 years ago
Reply to  bradllee424

*today lol. All this stuff was going on loooong before 2019-2021

AnAngelsFan
Super Member
3 years ago

The first fight in this case will be over where the lawsuit should take place and what law applies. The Angels won’t want two separate lawsuits, so they will try to either transfer the L.A case to Texas or vice versa. There’s also the potential the lawsuit in California should have been in Orange County, not L.A., and the chance the Texas case will get moved to Federal court.

As to what law applies, States sometimes apply the rules of other States where appropriate. The Angels will argue Texas law applies because that is where the death occurred (apparently this would defeat the parent’s claim), while the family will argue California law should apply because the principal place of employment is linked to California.

ihearhowie3.0
Super Member
3 years ago

Nobody thinks management of this org is as bad as I do and even I think this is a stretch barring some yet-unveiled information.

Take the Angels out of it. Say the marketing guy at Best Buy sells drugs to the cashier at Best Buy and the cashier dies…..this is Best Buy’s fault for what 2 adults were doing clearly in secret in their personal time?

I feel bad for his family but it is clear this is more about recouping some lost monetary value his career would have represented to them.

eyespy
Super Member
3 years ago
Reply to  ihearhowie3.0

Don’t think it was in secret, just that Arte’s “don’t want to hear about it” approach to the clubhouse is why Mead is so much more involved than you may think.

gitchogritchoffmypettis
Legend
Reply to  eyespy

In a case like this would the plaintiff need to prove that the Org’s higher ups knew? Otherwise you just have shocking shocker evidence like “The guy who doesn’t like the Org to begin with is pretty sure that Arte must have known.” countered with “The guy who loves the Org is pretty sure no one knew.”

But if it’s clear that, in general, junkies are keeping their activity secret because that’s what they do, do they need proof like internal emails on the subject or something, or is testimony like “players and coaches were pretty sure this was happening, thus Tim Mead knew, this Arte must have known…” good enough?

In short, if it’s necessary, how do you prove that a secret was known?

eyespy
Super Member
3 years ago

The players do give some kind of sample everyone a doctor checks them out.

What they are looking for is when they stop hearing because they are unwilling to hear.

They are looking for that break in communication, that was business protocol at the Los Angeles Angels.

ihearhowie3.0
Super Member
3 years ago
Reply to  eyespy

Seems like that info would have leaked by now if they had it. The deadline to file this case is tomorrow so waiting until the last minute does not really signal a smoking gun, at least to me.

If the Angels knew, they absolutely should get blasted into the sun for this. What is publicly known just doesn’t suggest that yet.

eyespy
Super Member
3 years ago
Reply to  ihearhowie3.0

Thanks, I didn’t know of the deadline. Is that in both TX, and Ca? The deadline that is.

gitchogritchoffmypettis
Legend
Reply to  ihearhowie3.0

Oh, so The players do NOT give some kind of sample everyone a doctor checks them out.

I had thought that the MLBPA pretty much prohibited testing outside the steroid testing that happens sporadically with enough warning to get anything out of your system, but when he said that I thought maybe things had changed…. but now I guess they didn’t and I still have no idea how you prove a secret wasn’t a secret anymore.

But hey, does it really matter? We live in a society that constantly demands people prove a negative now, so it shouldn’t be too hard to prove that the Angels knew a secret but then kept knowing the secret a secret.

Senator_John_Blutarsky
Legend

Let’s be intellectually honest: this is not about getting to the truth, this is not about accountability, and this is not about stopping the scourge of drug addiction. This is all about money and everyone from the family to the lawyers wants their “fair share”.

DMAGZ13
Trusted Member
3 years ago

Tim Mead knew he was part of this so he quit the HOF. What a fall from grace.

I had to administer fentanyl so I’m aware of it’s addictive potency. It’s scary.

This is messy. I hope all these VP people get cleaned out and Arte just becomes the money behind the org and baseball installs a watchdog or special consultant that eventually takes arte away from baseball decisions. But I can’t see him gone until he’s dead tbh because he won’t sell the team as he is tied up to the stadium and surrounding land deals. If not, it ends up a McCourt situation.

I just pray that they don’t sell to some guy who wants to move the team to Portland, Vegas or Nashville. I’d just quit baseball at that point.

I feel for Skaggs mom, but as a parent I’m conflicted in this because they had to have known. Where’s the wife? Are you just a clueless homebody that’s not part of discussion? Is she not allowed to move on? Mom had no idea that son had these tendencies?

Yes people can hide shit from their spouse but this seems extreme and kind of f’ed up on his behalf. I get the sympathy for addicts, but the abuse that family of addicts sucks too and is unfair. But so are enablers. All around lousy situation.

Heaney typically sucks but today extra terrible. They should’ve cleaned house and traded him too.

Last edited 3 years ago by DMAGZ13
FungoAle
Legend
3 years ago
Reply to  DMAGZ13

Tim Mead quit HOF due to Tyler’s OD ? Did you read this somewhere? I had not heard that.

bradllee424
Trusted Member
3 years ago
Reply to  FungoAle

Tim Mead would not have accepted a top level HOF job if he knew deep down he was responsible for what happened.

eyespy
Super Member
3 years ago
Reply to  bradllee424

He excepted, before Tyler’s demise, to get away from this and move into his dream job.

Senator_John_Blutarsky
Legend
Reply to  DMAGZ13

Mead is in his mid-60’s, it’s entirely possible that he just wanted to retire.

As noted elsewhere, Mead is likely the only link that can implicate Arte and/or other Angel corporate executives. It’s also possible years of litigation weighed heavily on him too.

gitchogritchoffmypettis
Legend
Reply to  DMAGZ13

Unless the land deal for the stadium falls through Arte/new owners can’t move the team for like 30 years.

FungoAle
Legend
3 years ago

I vote to unpin this post. Not the best thing to focus on while we sink in the standings.

Senator_John_Blutarsky
Legend
Reply to  FungoAle

Nope. It’s real and part of the entire scene that is the Angels. We need to wallow in the shit while lining Arte’s pockets with greenbacks.

FungoAle
Legend
3 years ago

Sure we can KEEP talking about this again and again. In the last 4-5 posts on this matter concluded: Posters who hate Arte blame the Angles, posters with personal experience or close to families with similar issues put the blame at the hands of the abuser and they guy who delivered the goods.

JackFrost
Super Member
3 years ago
Reply to  FungoAle

I don’t think most of us here are that black and white in our thinking. I am certainly not a fan of Arte, but I don’t “blame” him for Skaggs death.

However, if higher ups knew of Kay’s activities then I would say that the Angels, and by extension Arte himself, WERE negligent.

El_Duderino
Trusted Member
3 years ago
Reply to  FungoAle

Agreed.

Jim Atkins
Super Member
3 years ago

This gets uglier and uglier. I have a feeling this is going to get settled, MLB doesn’t want this much dirty laundry aired out in public. Angels need to clean some house in the management ranks, for this and a lot of other oft-discussed reasons.

VictoriousVIC
Trusted Member
3 years ago
Reply to  Jim Atkins

This is my hope when it is all said and done. The goal out of this outcome is Manfred forces Arte to sell the franchise, but a close second would be eliminating John Carpino, Denis Khul, and all the yes man that have destroyed this franchise from top to bottom.

Senator_John_Blutarsky
Legend
Reply to  VictoriousVIC

If Manfred is involved in the decision-making, it can absolutely get worse with a post-Arte regime. Be very careful what you wish for.

gitchogritchoffmypettis
Legend

True dat.

This is one of the stupidest wanks on this site. “We NEED Arte to sell the team….” To who? Why will this be better? Do the people who constantly bitch this realize that the chances of getting a better owner are less than 50/50? Do any of them actually LOOK at the ownership of teams in a similar market situation and see what we would likely end up with for a buyer? Or do they just look at the Doyers and YankSux and envy them?

Sure, there’s the A’s and Rays, but their fans hate their owners cause all their favorite players leave. Plus, are we betting on getting a good new owner AND replicating those team’s FOs? Who’s in our market’s wheel house? The Phillies, Astros, Braves, Nationals and Cardinals. Over the last 20 years which of those owners am I taking over Arte? The Cardinals, the team with 1/4 Billion more value than the Angels. Those other orgs have had their ups and downs just like ours, and with baseball TV contracts, etc in decline we may even end up with cheaper ownership over the next 20 years if we roll those dice.

Some of us seem to live in a pipe dream that some tech billionaire is going to overpay for a team that is a distant second in a large market, located an hour’s drive from the actual market, and then make it his life’s ambition to turn that team into the A’s with quadruple the budget. What would most likely happen is that a group of people who barely care about baseball will buy the team because of real estate value and then do what idiots already think is happening and ACTUALLY run the team without caring much about winning. That or we become 1/10 of the Disney Empire again.

While it may not happen, I would bet on Arte fixing some of the stupid things he does and the team developing eventually before I bet on a magical unnamed future owner sweeping in and running the team like a utopia where the internet’s every whim is executed flawlessly and we win all the games all the time. And if you are hoping MANFRED FORCING A SALE will fix things you are a total knob.

nishiogawakun
Super Member
3 years ago

Lol, I guess I’m part of the total knob crew (what even is that?). We both know that nobody knows the probability of getting a “better” or “worse” owner than Arte, but I guess I’m in the camp of odds are higher that we get a better one. Optimism maybe? Never know until you try, right? I’d put your “bet on Arte fixing some of the stupid things he does and the team developing eventually” as actually pretty low to be honest. What gives you the idea that he would do anything different this time? Nothing I see indicates that sadly.

Also, yeah, we got some fugly uniforms with Disney, but we also did win a World Series so…

Maybe some people just feel doing the same thing over and over again is the definition of insanity, and why not try something new? Obviously this is much more nuanced than that, but to call that one of the ” stupidest wanks on this site” seems pretty weak. Oh well, I guess that’s YOUR opinion, man.

Last edited 3 years ago by nishiogawakun
eyespy
Super Member
3 years ago
Reply to  Jim Atkins

Yes, this will break many things with the separation of the different parts of MLB.

gitchogritchoffmypettis
Legend
Reply to  Jim Atkins

This is what I don’t understand. I am fine with Arte being hands on. It’s his money and I’m just glad to have an owner who will spend it. But if I were a hands on owner, while I may understand that the baseball ops may not work out how I hope as fast as I hope, THIS type of bullshit would just send me over the edge. Maybe I’d wait till all the lawsuit crap was done, but holy f*** I would take a flame thrower to just about my entire upper management after this, friends or not. It’s just that big a screw up.

So, while I understand that it probably wouldn’t be wise to sack all the top floor offices while waiting out a huge suit, I’d expect even a hands on, emotionally tied in owner like Arte to roll some heads after this BECAUSE he’s hands on/emotionally connected to the team. It’s what I’d do and I hope he does it.

Halo71
Trusted Member
3 years ago

I feel terrible for the family, but Skaggs was a drug addict and responsible for his own fate.

Angels2020Champs
Legend
3 years ago

So many layers to this, from saddest to absolute disgust. I hope the closets get cleaned out and elephants in the room are talked about, but I image this will go away as quietly as possible. I’m sure amounts of monies will be paid.

Last edited 3 years ago by Angels2020Champs
gitchogritchoffmypettis
Legend

I think it would be stupid for me not expect some sort of public display of elephants, but I DO think and hope that the huge pain in the ass that this has caused scares Arte & Co into being scared of elephants long term and creating an elephant free zone at the Big A going forward.

Angels2020Champs
Legend
3 years ago

Well said. We’ve never been a destination organization (FO or players wise). FO comes here because they get an opportunity they’re not getting elsewhere and yeah we sign an overpriced player here and there but we aren’t getting good players coming here because of anything other than pay/opportunity (whereas some places have a good culture, fun atmosphere, better taxes, whatever).

bradllee424
Trusted Member
3 years ago

I am really sick of this story. I guess 20 something year olds aren’t responsible for their drug addictions. Really a sad society we live in today. I wish I was born in the early 20th century. A time when an individual was responsible for their own actions.

Charles Sutton
Editor
Super Member
3 years ago
Reply to  Jeff Joiner

There’s only so much you can do with an ice pack and a massage.

Twebur
Legend
3 years ago
Reply to  Charles Sutton

And of all the drugs they’ve fought, marijuana might be the safest and most effective way to help combat pain and safer than alcohol in many ways.

steelgolf
Super Member
3 years ago
Reply to  Jeff Joiner

When I had have my face cut away for skin cancer, they gave me opiates, I didn’t use a single one, just stuck with regular Tylenol. And for the reason that with 2 young kids and a wife at home I don’t need to be out of my mind and hooked on opiates.

Designerguy
Super Member
3 years ago
Reply to  steelgolf

I did the same when I had a basal-cell carcinoma removed from my back. I was scared shitless about opiates, so I stuck with Tylenol for two days.

steelgolf
Super Member
3 years ago
Reply to  Designerguy

Squamous cell here, thing got the size of a golf ball but flatter like a mushroom. They cut me in front of my ear just into the hairline, down to my jaw and along it a couple of inches and back towards my neck under the ear. My wife kind of freaked out when she came to pick me up from the hospital.

Jim Atkins
Super Member
3 years ago
Reply to  steelgolf

Damn, that’s pretty terrifying. I’ve had two squamous cell but they were tiny. My wife had a bad one on her nose and had to have skin graft surgery. I’m permanently paranoid. Getting some forehead moles removed Thursday.

steelgolf
Super Member
3 years ago
Reply to  Jim Atkins

Mine was extremely aggressive going from what looked like a small pimple to the golf ball in 3 months time. I have since healed just fine except my nose, which still has all the broken capillaries, which after the surgery was across the whole half of my face.

2002heaven
Super Member
3 years ago
Reply to  steelgolf

Cocaine and Opium were given to war injured during the Civil War and WW1 with often devastating consequences.

Jessica DeLine
Admin
Super Member
3 years ago
Reply to  bradllee424

People certainly are responsible for their own drug addictions but if your place of employment is distributing drugs and you knew about it – then you are also liable. Not to mention some of the details in the lawsuit such as the Angels pushing people to play through injuries, etc. If they created a culture of making people play hurt then enabled drug use – you better believe they will have to pay up. The fact that the Angels enabled though, will have to be proven.

Twebur
Legend
3 years ago
Reply to  Jessica DeLine

Agree with all of your points……and this has nothing to do with this specific case, common sense tells us this goes on in every professional sport organization. Of course on a sliding scale, some more, some less, but they all have these issues.
I also think we’d be very naïve not to think the exact same relationship of player and team employee exist today, with some extra layered precautions. And of course some players have outside family/friend that aid them with their habits.

Last edited 3 years ago by Twebur
AnAngelsFan
Super Member
3 years ago
Reply to  Jessica DeLine

There are some situations where I agree the Angels should have some responsibility. For example, if Kay was supplying the drugs in the locker room, the Angels knew it and turned a blind eye.

A culture of making people play hurt might ethically support a claim if the player exacerbates an injury on the field, but it’s a lame excuse for holding them financially responsible for Skagg’s decision to use drugs. If Skaggs became addicted because the Angels made him play injured he should have quit and then sued MLB for prohibiting him from getting a job with a different team that doesn’t require them to play injured. There’s also a difference between taking prescription opiods and buying them illegally when your prescription expires knowing they might be laced with fentanyl.

JackFrost
Super Member
3 years ago
Reply to  AnAngelsFan

You said alot there, much of it true. However, I don’t think you should assume that Tyler even knew what fentanyl was. As most have stated here it is most likely that he started taking opiates for injuries/pain/soreness related to pitching and not simply recreationally (although we don’t know for sure). That being the case he probably was not as knowledgeable as the recreational user. It does seem likely however that the lethality of fentanyl (being 25 times stronger than heroin) played a role in his OD death.

JackFrost
Super Member
3 years ago
Reply to  Jeff Joiner

Agree. Back in November Purdue pharmaceuticals plead guilty to three criminal charges for their involvement in the opioid epidemic and the role they played. It appears they are in a position now to settle a huge lawsuit against them. This is a positive development in that it represents accountability for Big Pharma. But this is just a start.

There need to be ethics reviews for physicians and psychiatrists and a continued exploration of the underlying factors contributing to addiction. More than 115 people die per day in America due to an opioid overdose (this number is a couple of years old) and roughly 72,000 people died of overdoses in 2017, a large number of which were drugs of the opiate class.

Last edited 3 years ago by JackFrost
Charles Sutton
Editor
Super Member
3 years ago
Reply to  JackFrost

At least I don’t hear about people taking krokodil any more. That stuff was pretty disgusting.

Designerguy
Super Member
3 years ago
Reply to  JackFrost

To these companies, lawsuit payoffs are the cost of doing business. It won’t stop until some of these people do serious jail time.

GrandpaBaseball
Legend
3 years ago
Reply to  Designerguy

J&J just announced that they are now out of the Opiate business.

steelgolf
Super Member
3 years ago

The Covid vaccine business is far more profitable and less risk. The govt. said they are good to go! And I got the J&J shot 4 days before they temporarily stopped them.

Last edited 3 years ago by steelgolf
JackFrost
Super Member
3 years ago
Reply to  Jeff Joiner

Yes. It is a very dirty business and is insidious. Dealers like putting fentanyl in the heroin because it allows them to cut it even more and thus make more $. On the East Coast alot of the heroin is laced with fentanyl though I would doubt that the Mexican cartels are doing that business (not sure their reach is transcontinental). I would doubt that is coming from Mexico. Maybe Russian Mob? But I have no doubt that you are correct about the West Coast stuff; that it is controlled by the Mexicans.

Last edited 3 years ago by JackFrost
JackFrost
Super Member
3 years ago
Reply to  AnAngelsFan

Interesting. So apparently, they do have their hands in the East Coast pie as well. However, this piece you shared here does say that their influence is particularly strong in Southern California, the Northeast and South Florida.

It adds that “the exact nature of their links to distributors in those areas(secondary) is unclear.”

So, it could be that they are competing with other organized crime groups in those areas.

I have also seen documentation of Russian organized crimes involvement in narcotics trafficking in Central Asia. Also some references to these activities around New York.

In all likelihood there are a few interests operating there.

Last edited 3 years ago by JackFrost
AnAngelsFan
Super Member
3 years ago
Reply to  JackFrost

Competing is one possibility. Another is that Russians and other crime elements are the primary distributors in the secondary areas but buy some of their supply from the Mexican cartels.

steelgolf
Super Member
3 years ago
Reply to  JackFrost

Almost ALL of that trade involves the Mexican cartels. And they do business with Russian, Armenian, Chinese, etc., etc. Including the so called “Outlaw Motorcycle Gangs”.

JackFrost
Super Member
3 years ago
Reply to  steelgolf

The other thing I’ll add is that the heroin on the East Coast is usually a different type of heroin. It is called “China White” and is higher grade than the brown Mexican stuff typically found out West.

This would lead one to believe that the source is different.

steelgolf
Super Member
3 years ago
Reply to  JackFrost

Take it from an ex punk musician, China White was readily available in CA in the late 70s and through the 80s.

El_Duderino
Trusted Member
3 years ago
Reply to  JackFrost

Why would it be more plausible to have the drugs come from half way around the world from Russia, through various customs, by plane, boat, etc, than straight up through Mexico where it has been proven to be easy enough to do so?

JackFrost
Super Member
3 years ago
Reply to  El_Duderino

Mexico is not that close to New York and New Jersey, lol.

Also, never said the drugs “come from Russia.”

El_Duderino
Trusted Member
3 years ago
Reply to  JackFrost

I’m saying it’s logistically a lot closer than Russia. Particularly since there is little to no resistance anywhere along the path.

But it’s all good, I don’t care much about arguing the matter. 🙂

Last edited 3 years ago by El_Duderino
JackFrost
Super Member
3 years ago
Reply to  El_Duderino

Dude, I never said the drugs themselves COME from Russia. I implied that the Russian mob was possibly involved in distribution. That is not the same thing.

gitchogritchoffmypettis
Legend
Reply to  JackFrost

All I know is this site could use a lot more drugs… also maybe some more Russians. Those people don’t suffer BS and they know how to party.

gitchogritchoffmypettis
Legend
Reply to  Jeff Joiner

Given how often I have to hear about Fentynal I find it hard to believe anyone over the age of 12 is totally unaware that there is a scary drug out there killing people…. much less Skaggs not knowing. As a guy with literally dozens of people who have died from drugs in my life I am 90% sure that anyone who dies from them is aware that people are being killed by these drugs, they just all assume it will not be THEM being killed by the drug in THEIR hands at the time that they take the fatal dose. It’s just what people do.

El_Duderino
Trusted Member
3 years ago

Also, they sometimes don’t really care. Sad as it is to say it.

2002heaven
Super Member
3 years ago
Reply to  bradllee424

What if got his addiction through prescription pain killers? Just like how much the developers and condo association know about the condo collapse dangers in Florida?
Should the homeowners be responsible for their own safety?

bradllee424
Trusted Member
3 years ago
Reply to  2002heaven

If he was underage I could understand this. However, this person was a grown adult who understood the risks of taking drugs. That is the problem with society today. No one takes responsibility for their own actions.

2002heaven
Super Member
3 years ago
Reply to  bradllee424

Pain killers get you hooked on them……Brett Favre was addicted to them.
The medical industry is simply going to have to develop another way to fight pain. You heard of Purdue Pharmaceuticals filing for bankruptcy protection?
You’re equating this to getting a line of cocaine from a street level drug dealer.

Halo71
Trusted Member
3 years ago
Reply to  bradllee424

Nope, nothing is ever anybody’s fault anymore.

gitchogritchoffmypettis
Legend
Reply to  Jeff Joiner

Before said generation dies out, I think it would actually behoove our expert class to study how exactly men and women survived pain before Vicodin. I think, as is the case with most of the things that poison a society, it is the vast bulk of society that hurts itself, then looks for a large and usually evil target to blame. Doctors prescribe painmeds because the huge majority of people in pain demand them, some to the point of legal action if they don’t get what they want. Purdue sucks, but they didn’t invent this demand. We are all worried about China. We all can’t stop buying things made in China because we’d be bored and life would be harder. We all hate child slavery. We all buy shoes and cell phones and won’t inflict the extremely harsh measures on ourselves that it would take to break that cycle. I am fat because broccoli is not delicious and cooking is a pain in my ass. School is hard for everyone. If you don’t go to school you will be poor and stupid. Lot’s of people are poor and stupid.

We may need to find more ways to have people do the SteelGolf method of pain management…. study it and find a way to support and build up people to deal with pain sans hard drugs. Then just not allow heavy pain meds to most people who aren’t dying.

...Rev Halofan
Editor
Trusted Member
3 years ago

Everyone always said Tim Mead was such a nice guy.
Seems this time Nice Guys finish LAST.

IF Arte doesn’t settle this there will be lots of dirt spread at trial.
My understanding of Arte is that he is not the type of man who settles.

JackFrost
Super Member
3 years ago
Reply to  ...Rev Halofan

We all know that shit runs downhill. You can bet that a lot less of it gets on Arte himself and a lot more if it will get on Kay (if there isn’t already enough) and Mead….

Jessica DeLine
Admin
Super Member
3 years ago
Reply to  ...Rev Halofan

I would think he would settle to keep dirt out of court? He’s pretty private and this could get real messy.

GeoKaplan8
Trusted Member
3 years ago
Reply to  Jessica DeLine

I’m in agreement with Jessica on this. I imagine these lawsuits are filed *because* there was no settlement. It makes no sense that Arte would be using the nuclear option and force testimony in an open court (as opposed to the prior Grand Jury testimony which is kept private).

I am nobody’s idea of a “legal expert” but my guess is Arte’s attorneys (or those from the insurance carrier) will seek to get the suits dismissed before they go to trial. If they fail, it will be telling if they THEN settle out of court. That outcome would not look good for the franchise.

JackFrost
Super Member
3 years ago
Reply to  GeoKaplan8

You know, the nightmare scenario for Arte would be if the Skaggs family is not simply after money. What if in their anger they really want to besmudge Arte’s name and thus have refused to settle out of court? It could get real messy.

Designerguy
Super Member
3 years ago
Reply to  Jessica DeLine

Arte hates bad press coverage and he’ll settle it before the trial, and the settlement will include a very strong confidentiality clause.

gitchogritchoffmypettis
Legend
Reply to  Jessica DeLine

Especially because, settle or no, Arte’s gonna have to pay a pile of money.

AnAngelsFan
Super Member
3 years ago
Reply to  ...Rev Halofan

Arte might not be in control of the decision to settle. If the Angels’ liability insurance carrier is paying the bill then they control the decision. However, if the liability carrier claims there is a coverage exclusion and tries to get the Angels to pay for some of the settlement, then Arte will have some control.

Fansince1971
Legend
3 years ago
Reply to  AnAngelsFan

There is no coverage for the exemplary (ie punitive) damages being sought against the Angels. Those require a link to upper-management which is why Mead is involved. To settle the case the insurance company would have to pay a certain amount in compensatory damages but would look to the Angels to pay any punitive damages. That is likely the sticking point in any settlement negotiations.

AnAngelsFan
Super Member
3 years ago
Reply to  Fansince1971

True. This case will also involve a big fight between Moreno and the insurance carriers.

Senator_John_Blutarsky
Legend

The sorrid tale will likely now get uglier as everyone attempts to protect, deflect and distance themselves from responsibility.