A’s outplay Angels on Friday night

A’s 8, Angels 4

It was never going to end well.

Arguably the weakest starter in the Angels rotation (although the argument can be made for almost every one at the moment), José Quintana, simply didn’t have it today. The A’s were sitting on each one of his pitches when they made contact, and it was pretty fortunate that Quintana got through the first two innings unscathed.

Screenshot from Baseball Savant

All that red…and the high expected batting average, even on outs…not good.

The hard contact eventually caught up with Quintana.

Jeff Joiner remarked that all the postgame had to be was: “Quintana started. Y’all know what happened” and call it a night. But his line ended up being okay. After five innings, the A’s had scored only one run.

Although José Iglesias tied the game in the bottom half of the inning, the game didn’t really feel safe.

Mike Mayers came in and tried to put out fires, which he was not able to do.

However, the Angels soon had the lead again. Jared Walsh homered and Juan Lagares tripled in two.

Interestingly enough, Joe Maddon left Mike Mayers out there in the seventh inning. After an error, a strikeout, and a single in which an Oakland player was thrown out at the plate, Matt Olson was up at the plate. Olson has pretty normal splits for a left-handed hitter throughout his career, so I thought that Maddon would bring in Tony Watson to face him. He stuck with Mayers. Olson walked, and Chad Pinder proceeded to homer in three.

Laureano Trout’d us. Not much more needs to be said. Please ignore the next clip for your own sanity.

Make no mistake, this was a game in which Oakland greatly outclassed the Angels. It still would have been nice to win it, however.

Finally, I posted this on the Gamethread. I believe it applies today, and it will probably apply on many nights in the future.

Recall that Community Conduct states: “PESSIMISTIC? Bitch once, then offer a solution. Don’t bitch twice, it’s alright.”

I’m pretty sure we’re all aware the team isn’t where we want it to be right now. To repeat the same comments night in and night out gets frustrating. It seems frustrating to you, and it’s frustrating to people like me, who are reading them.

So please, if you are going to complain about the team, I implore you to offer specific solutions, or else we go in circles, and this place becomes a cesspool.”

Frankly, generic comments about the quality of the current team and pointed remarks at specific individuals in the Angels organization have become repetitive. No new ground is being broken. Let’s try to figure out solutions, whether they be tearing the whole thing down, trading for pitching, or something else.

(Title image from Bally Sports West)

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nishiogawakun
Super Member
2 years ago

My plan is to bank on Correa getting a big contract from Arte, thus giving my shallow conscious the exit excuse it needs to take a sanctimonious break from this team until he leaves. That way I might be able to have my cake and eat it too: say in my heart the Angels are my team, but follow a team more fully who can actually be good.

Last edited 2 years ago by nishiogawakun
Angels2020Champs
Super Member
2 years ago

And Saturday night

WallyChuckChili
Legend
2 years ago

Not worth a PostGame

Brent
Super Member
2 years ago

It’s just really sad seeing the comments go “this is not our year, let’s just look forward to 20XX” over and over again for the last decade. No real solution typed here can fix anything, because we’re not, and will never be in the FO. I’ll enjoy the team while they get a rare W every now and then, the Ohtani HR’s during the losses, but just not expect anything to happen for not just another year, but at least 2-4 years to come.

steelgolf
Super Member
2 years ago

Free agent pitchers coming: Syndergaard, Scherzer, Verlander, Kershaw and the miles and miles on his back. Do you think this team will make a play for one this off-season? Pitching is the only thing that can help this team, and pitchers that can go 7 innings.

eyespy
Super Member
2 years ago
Reply to  steelgolf

How will their names look, up in 👐lights👐!

Jessica DeLine
Admin
Super Member
2 years ago
Reply to  eyespy

7 years and 240 million for a 34 year old Kershaw.

eyespy
Super Member
2 years ago
Reply to  Jessica DeLine

So bright I think I’ll wear shades. Stick to the Dodgers Arttie

eyespy
Super Member
2 years ago
Reply to  eyespy

*Stick it to the Dodgers

steelgolf
Super Member
2 years ago
Reply to  Jessica DeLine

😆

Brent
Super Member
2 years ago
Reply to  Jessica DeLine

Delete this before Arte reads this.

Cowboy26
Legend
2 years ago
Reply to  Brent

Arte doesn’t pay for old washed up pitching. hell he doesn’t pay any pitching.

JakeTaylor
Trusted Member
2 years ago
Reply to  steelgolf

Arte gonna give Verlander or Scherzer a 10yr deal.

eyespy
Super Member
2 years ago
Reply to  JakeTaylor

I can see it now. Leaving floating dots in my vision like flashbulbs and spotlights.

2002heaven
Trusted Member
2 years ago
Reply to  steelgolf

Arte isn’t paying for any of those guys unless theyre on one year deals for $9M. I also firmly believe his eyes are on Corey Seager if the Dodgers don’t resign him. So don’t be surprised if Maddy resigns from his skipper role, since he looks like he’s close to the end of his wick on how this organization is so badly in chaos now since he left it. Yes I do believe he would walk away to go elsewhere for less dinero if it’s a better situation. Yes AM your Angels are officially the Donald Sterling Era Clippers on the baseball diamond in this town!

Last edited 2 years ago by 2002heaven
Halo71
Trusted Member
2 years ago

Hopefully Bundy and Raisel get really hot so we can get some value for them at the deadline

Cowboy26
Legend
2 years ago
Reply to  Halo71

And Heaney and Cobb and Quintana and Stassi and Suzuki and Lagares and Chishek and Iggy and Watson and Mayers and Butera and Claudio and Gosselin and Strickland and Barria and Guerra and Hoyt. Did I forget anyone else without a NTC?

JackFrost
Super Member
2 years ago
Reply to  Halo71

I would not be so anxious to wave goodbye to either Iglesias or Bundy.

First, I think it is very possible that by the end of the year Raisel sits somewhere statistically (for 2021) that aligns with his career averages…

Further, if we don’t extend him we then have to ask ourselves the question “who do we get to replace him”?”, and “will that person actually be better?”

I think there is a better than 50% chance that Raisel’s potential replacement would be worse than him. For that reason I think we should see how the 2nd half goes and if he performs well we SHOULD attempt to extend him…

I would say the same for Bundy.

Last edited 2 years ago by JackFrost
Cowboy26
Legend
2 years ago
Reply to  JackFrost

Todays closers are fickle so I’m not sure how much we would want to invest in him or another available arm. I guess it depends on his demands and how his season ends up. Everyone starts with a pie in the sky number before reality sets in. That wont be happening until deep into the offseason especially if he has a strong finish somewhere. Technically we could trade him and then pursue him in the offseason.

Interesting that Iglesias is the 8th highest paid closer in baseball right now at $9.125 million per year. He does finish strong would he be willing to take a pycut on his AAV?

Here is the list. https://www.spotrac.com/mlb/rankings/salary/closer/

Perry got some salary relief from the Reds with the trade of Noe and an additional ~$800K thrown in. Will he want to pay a hefty amount for a “legit” closer with so many other pitching needs?

Bundy reminds of an aging WTY. I think he knows how to pitch but is his stuff still good enough to get batters out on a consistent basis especially if it seems to be in a state of decline.

But What alternatives do the Angels have if they don’t resign Bundy? The pitching free agent market will be dreadful and our best options are late 30’s where these guys are gunning for the retirement deal with built in backended dead money.

Without any real reinforcements from the farm system (at least for a while) there will be a shitpile of work to do next year and not an unlimited supply of money to pay for it.

Last edited 2 years ago by Cowboy26
JackFrost
Super Member
2 years ago
Reply to  Cowboy26

Your “what alternatives” question was exactly my point.

We WILL have money to invest next season and it had better damn we’ll be on pitching. Iglesias would be a good place to start.

His stuff is still good. I think his first month was a bit flukey.

Mayers costs close to nothing. C-Rod (if kept in the pen) is in the same boat. I feel we could afford to invest in one veteran bullpen arm.

But I do understand and basically agree with your point about the volatility of BP arms from year to year… Truth be told this is the reality of baseball in general, with the exceptions from a handful of Superstars.

Halo71
Trusted Member
2 years ago
Reply to  JackFrost

It’s hard to believe that half the closers are worse than Iglesias

JackFrost
Super Member
2 years ago
Reply to  Halo71

Yeah, and thus my point. I don’t see him getting worse this season than he has been.

Let’s not forget that game in Houston where he got screwed by the scandalous replay call/non-call after which he ended up letting runs in. He was really cheated there.

2002heaven
Trusted Member
2 years ago
Reply to  JackFrost

trade them all!!
Time to blow this whole baseball Chernobyl up once and for all. Anybody who’s name isn’t Mike Trout or Jered Walsh should be considered tradable. Time to purge and exorcise the last 5 seasons of trials and tribulations.

2002heaven
Trusted Member
2 years ago

The Minissian Era won’t last 4 yrs ( the length of his contract……another frosty fallout just like Dipoto’s was just waiting to happen ). Arte has picked up right where former idiot racist scumbag and former Clippers owner Donald Sterling left off. He’s supplanted former broke cheapskate Dodger’s owner Frank McCourt as the clown prince of ineptitude in this town. At least Frank McCourt didn’t kneecap his farm system the way Ebenezer Arte has. Meanwhile the Dodgers are building a gondola or transport system like the Disneyland Monorail……Thanks Arte your team looks more like a irrelevant ugly step child than ever before.

MarineLayer
Super Member
2 years ago

where to begin…

Think of Minisian as part of the problem, not the solution. I can’t think of any of his moves as being part of a long-term solution. Most of them have been disastrous. Look at how Oakland or San Francisco have been able to pick up crap from the garbage dump and turn it into usable pieces. The fact that SFs pitching staff and team is so much better than ours without Mike Trout, Ohtani and Rendon makes me cry. Now look at Quintana and the rest of the crap Minisian picked up in comparison.

I think Ohtani needs to give up pitching and focus on replacing Trout as our top bat. The 5 mile loss of velocity in his last start demonstrates to me he is an accident ready to happen and I’d prefer to avoid the Tommy John scenario.

We also have to acknowledge that Trout and Rendon are entering the Pujols phase of their enormous contracts. Trout just injured himself for two months while jogging. Of course, I don’t trust Minisian to orchestrate a rebuild as his ability to identify talent is pathetic, maybe the worst among a bad group, maybe Tony-level bad. I have no patience for on the job training of a guy with no aptitude. But is we’re going to dump diminishing assets for the necessary rebuild, we need to get some Wander Franco, Alex Manoa level assets in return.

Obviously,I would like to identify solutions, but short of Moreno selling the team and replacing the front office and rebuilding, I am at a loss.

MarineLayer
Super Member
2 years ago
Reply to  MarineLayer

As to personal goals, I want to become a Trusted Member, even if my takes are Minisian-level bad.

GrandpaBaseball
Legend
2 years ago
Reply to  MarineLayer

Keep posting.

h27kim
Trusted Member
2 years ago
Reply to  MarineLayer

Here, here!

eyespy
Super Member
2 years ago
Reply to  MarineLayer

weak

2002heaven
Trusted Member
2 years ago
Reply to  MarineLayer

I already asked that after my 2019 rant the day after Mikey got his deal ( what do we do when Mike Trout turns 30 and starts getting injury prone? ). So far Arte has Jered Walsh to fall back on if that should come to pass.

GrandpaBaseball
Legend
2 years ago
Reply to  2002heaven

Funny stuff, Trouty didn’t wait until 30 to experience the injury prone player he has become. The money he pulls down hopefully will not be affecting his having staying in better shape. His slump prior to the injury, are they connected?

Arte had no choice but to sign Mike trout to a long term contract if he wanted his franchise to draw fans and making money.

The future direction of this team would be served possibly if gutted and rebuilt in F.O. and Dugout. Current ownership would be better off backing away and allow the new F.O. to run the ship or sell team. Yankees and Mets would love to have Mike Trout for prospects.

MarineLayer
Super Member
2 years ago

I wonder what kind of haul a decent GM could’ve gotten for Mike, even on an expiring contract.

2002heaven
Trusted Member
2 years ago
Reply to  MarineLayer

That would’ve been a PR trainwreck.
We should’ve just let him leave to go elsewhere and get a big money deal just as STL and WASH did with Pujols and Rendon did with us. We get a first round pick as compensation and a lot of money off our books. Besides we weren’t smart enuff to sign people for just 3 yrs like those other guys up the freeway ( Greinke & Bauer ).

MarineLayer
Super Member
2 years ago
Reply to  2002heaven

So was showing Gramps the door.

h27kim
Trusted Member
2 years ago

I wonder if the best way forward is to do better scouting and player development, defined broadly. I kept thinking about what has driven the success of the A’s over the years (but also the Ray’s). Was it better draft? Nope–someone posted something a while back that very little of their WAR came from the players they drafted. A large fraction of their contributers came from dumpster diving, interesting but flawed players that they “fixed,” or at least, placed into roles where they can succeed. We have mocked our FO doing dumpster diving b/c so many of our projects flopped, but, if you are trying to field a roster on a budget (and for all our payroll, we are always on a fairly tight budget b/c too much of our payroll will be tied up on a few players), there is no alternative to dumpster diving. The real key is to do it better and get more yield, which we haven’t been succeeding at.

bradllee424
Trusted Member
2 years ago
Reply to  h27kim

I would rather go with a smaller payroll and build the farm system.

2002heaven
Trusted Member
2 years ago
Reply to  h27kim

The difference between these two teams it seems to me is that the A’s focus more on hitters in development while the D-Rays focus more on pitching. The A’s like to hand out short term cheap deals to veteran pitchers ( Mike Fiers ) and I’ve noted that Beane likes to use his outfield to cut costs ( Mark Canha and Stephen Piscotty while we have John Jay, Jose Rosas, and Taylor Ward 😆  😫  💩  ). Either way our way ain’t working!

DaveChalk
Trusted Member
2 years ago

Well my heart tells me what would like to do is see them invest in pitching via free agency and really spend on the bullpen at least for the 6-9 inning guys. We can’t make big trades realistically and while the modest trades have yielded minor upgrades over what we have that isn’t getting us where we say we want to go in this closing window of a Trout, Ohtani, Rendon core. At this point, I have zero confidence in this organization’s ability to scout current mlb players for one year deals – they are either missing clear warnings signs from their past – maybe HR propensity, can’t pitch runners on, etc. I get maybe the advanced stats showed a Ryu or Keuchel not offering much WAR ahead of Teheran or Q but that sure hasn’t been how its played out. These guys have been in majors too long for the pitching coach or angel’s development to be the root cause.

My head tells me that its probably going to have to be the hard way of building pitching up from the draft at which we are starting from near zero. That is of course is hard to write because that doesn’t align with the core’s prime years. When we recommend a middle ground we are basically asking the organization to “get good” at identifying the right pitchers for short term deals, identify and help them through any correctable issues they see during the season leading to bad outings, develop the young kids they have to their ceilings, etc. iIt’s easy to write but getting harder every year to believe in.

bradllee424
Trusted Member
2 years ago
Reply to  DaveChalk

The only way to fix the pitching is wait until next offseason when a bunch of quality pitchers are available. Maybe if they do that it won’t be so dreadful to watch this team next season.

Jessica DeLine
Admin
Super Member
2 years ago
Reply to  bradllee424

That’s the quickest way to try to fix pitching but not the best. Most of the best pitching staffs are not full of free agent signings.

Fansince1971
Legend
2 years ago
Reply to  Jessica DeLine

Jessica- I agree but this then gets into scouting and player development neither of which the Organization has focused on or done well for over a decade.

eyespy
Super Member
2 years ago
Reply to  Fansince1971

Or have, scouting and development. Mr. Moreno cleared that out three times during his reign. No guaranteed return on the investment. Why do we need scouts? The club’s front office will just draft players anywho. That is what I pay them to do. If scouts could make sales, then he might consider this expense.

Do you remember the 1930’s Dust Bowl? They named it after our farm system. They knew what was coming.

bradllee424
Trusted Member
2 years ago
Reply to  eyespy

If we had a decent scouting department we wouldn’t be bringing in these awful pitchers. Seems like the FO is just going with gut instinct when signing players. In order to be successful you need a good scouting dept. So far Moreno doesn’t get that.

ihearhowie3.0
Super Member
2 years ago

Solutions: What’s clear is that it’s not a one year type thing. We seem no closer to contention in 2021 then we were in 2017.

  • Fire Maddon, search for actual leadership – Won’t happen because Arte is slow to admit mistakes but he’s not the right guy for a rebuild. Also his hands-off “players will figure it out” approach has quite clearly diminished the team’s urgency and respect for playing proper defense.
  • Blow up the roster, target vocal guys with more edge – We’ve complained for years about missing an Erstad type that calls player only meetings and gets *angry* about losing streaks. Where is the Lackey/Weaver/Percival on the pitching side? Heaney and Canning are quite literally the weaker, softer opposite end of the spectrum.
  • Forget 2021 – It’s not happening this year. Just get a head start on 2022 now. Get looks at all kinds of new guys and coaches and see what sticks.
JackFrost
Super Member
2 years ago
Reply to  ihearhowie3.0

Don’t agree that Maddon is “hands off” in his approach. From the beginning he has been active and involved and is not averse to getting his hands dirty. For example, he got out there in the OF with Adell and worked with him one on one of defensive fundamentals, coaching, educating and providing specific details for him to improve. Alot of managers would not have done this.

h27kim
Trusted Member
2 years ago
Reply to  JackFrost

Yup. Maddon was, as I understand it, central to getting Albert released, which is getting dirty far more than any manager we had since early Sosh days.

eyespy
Super Member
2 years ago
Reply to  h27kim

It was a “mutual agreement” from what the Dodgers Imagineers have released.

So give credit to Albert for agreeing to not come back anymore too.

Senator_John_Blutarsky
Legend
Reply to  h27kim

Source for the understanding that Maddon wanted Pujols released? It was reported in multiple news articles that Maddon told Pujols that the FO made the decision not to start him on the day this blew up. So if those reports were accurate, St. Joe pointed the finger at Perry for making the lineup w/o Pujols in it.

eyespy
Super Member
2 years ago

Old Al did say Joe was a hack at being a manager, so there is that. But yes, he had no decision, not mah jerb, in giving Pujols das boot.

eyespy
Super Member
2 years ago
Reply to  JackFrost

He is an ex-catcher trying to teach an athlete how to play the outfield positions.

He may be hands-on when he should just be doing his job. Which he might have just been doing there. “Gotta have good hands to play baseball. Don’t let the ball go over the wall. Fence??? Barricade??? Wall??? Yes, wall, over the wall again. Thanks, Jo-el Dell. Go git’um Tiger.”

JackFrost
Super Member
2 years ago
Reply to  eyespy

Lol. I think his guidance and teaching went a little beyond “Look out for the wall.””

And the fact he played catcher does not mean he knows nothing about how to play outfield defense.

Cowboy26
Legend
2 years ago
Reply to  eyespy

That was an instructional coach in the Angels Organization both at the minor league and major league level for over 26 years .

I think he would know a thing or 2 about coaching or teaching baseball. Go ask any Angel prospect or major leaguer that came through the organization from 1979 to 2005 including outfielders and pitchers if he knew what he was doing.

Of all of Joe’s fault lack of baseball knowledge and instruction is not one of them.

eyespy
Super Member
2 years ago
Reply to  Cowboy26

Old boys network in the Org.

I have seen the videos of Joe talking to Jo. Folding the glove, and moving around like an ol’coot, behind second base. Why not by the wall? Jo’s issues come from tracking balls, seeing them coming off the bat, and seeing them come out of the pitcher’s hand when he is holding the bat.

Yes, Soggy Joe has that baseball pedigree, but after them/that talk he had with Adell. There seems to have been very little improvement on either side of the plate since.

Jo, he is still young at baseball, and needs to figure this game out himself a bit first before he can go out and improve with the kind of help Maddon would give during this time in Joe’s career.

Who here really knows? I just don’t hear much/any news of Maddon’s, down on the farm type, stories. He grabbed so much at TB and with the CUBS. He just doesn’t do that anymore.

I just feel talking with Jo, was just useless for all involved. It wasn’t the manager’s job at that time. What good was it doing when Jo was getting sent to the bench for the remainder of the season.

2002heaven
Trusted Member
2 years ago
Reply to  ihearhowie3.0

Most of this blog thought the Maddon hiring was great and the firing of Brad Ausmas was a Godsend. MLB Managers are almost irrelevant compared to NCAA baseball managers…..see the Moneyball movie to get my point. Remember the late Phillip Seymour Hoffman’s character asking Brad Pitt for a 2 yr deal? Gonna need to just go through cheap expendable musical chairs field managers till and if Perry can be allowed to build and develop a core group of good players like we did before Arte wrecked this team.

JackFrost
Super Member
2 years ago
Reply to  2002heaven

Why do you assume other people besides you don’t know things, haven’t seen movies, or are generally uninformed? FYI, yes, I have seen “Moneyball,” (I’d be willing to bet that “ihearhowie” has as well..) and I am familiar with the sabermetrics trope that “managers don’t matter.”

Guess what? I don’t agree with everything postulated by the saber crew. While there are valuable things to be gleaned they do sometimes go overboard. For example saying there is no such thing as clutch, or that “managers don’t matter”, or that the RBI stat is completely meaningless etc.. Yes, RBI is a context dependent stat, but that does not mean it is totally useless… I am not a Billy Beane Fanboy and I don’t worship at the Church of Analytics.

Last edited 2 years ago by JackFrost
2002heaven
Trusted Member
2 years ago
Reply to  JackFrost

Never said all of them, but many of them did in fact thought so, and now here we are 2 yrs later and watching us on our way to consecutive losing season #6.

eyespy
Super Member
2 years ago
Reply to  2002heaven

But cheap expendable managers, do not have names, that belong up in lights.

Give credit to Maddon’s signing where the credit is due.

We are stuck with Joe for at least another extension, just like we should get used to Perry. They both will get extended, without raises, and that is a negotiating win for Mr.Moreno.

2002heaven
Trusted Member
2 years ago
Reply to  eyespy

The problem is AM thinks the majority our fanbase is stupid and only likes Mike Trout and a nice night out at the ballpark. Truth be told, maybe’s he’s right! If he hired someone like Andrew Friedman or Farhan Zaidi to be POBO he’d be way ahead of the game.

eyespy
Super Member
2 years ago
Reply to  2002heaven

He is right, and likes to support the money spending out-of-towners that are on vacation.

angelslogic
Super Member
2 years ago

comment image

JackFrost
Super Member
2 years ago
Reply to  angelslogic

Correction: needs to read “Produced and Directed by Arte Moreno and his Cronies.”

ihearhowie3.0
Super Member
2 years ago
Reply to  JackFrost

Yep. Until something changes with Arte’s tolerance for his friends’ and his own failures operating a healthy organization, I don’t see any kind of permanent transformative change on the horizon.

He should go out and overpay an executive from a steady organization and give them total freedom to hire and fire as they feel necessary to turn the culture around and that will trickle down to the field, minors etc.

When Arte dug in years ago against ushers and concessionaires at the stadium, it was a precursor to how he fired his scouts and punted the draft class to save what amounts to a year of Alex Cobb’s salary (if even). Never hear a lot of that from the Dodgers or Giants or Cardinals.

Last edited 2 years ago by ihearhowie3.0
JackFrost
Super Member
2 years ago
Reply to  ihearhowie3.0

Totally agree. With very few exceptions one common denominator among very good or even great owners in pro sports is that they know how to delegate. And more importantly they are “hands off.”

Jeannie Buss of the Lakers is a perfect example. She has a deep desire to win and to keep her father’s legacy alive, but she does not let her ego or personal agenda get in the way. Comparing her to Arte, she was willing to fire her own brother because it was best for the organization and its’ direction.

In contrast, Arte has been intrenched and incredibly stubborn with holding onto his University of Arizona cronies who very clearly don’t have any idea how to run a successful baseball organization. Further, they don’t appear willing or able to learn. You’d think after years of mistakes there would be some learning going on…. Not with them.

If this team is to turn things around short of Arte being forced out by MLB for borderline criminal scandals, it will mean him a) selling the team or b) firing his cronies and doing what you suggested, handing the reigns over to a truly knowledgeable baseball person and let that person be President of Baseball Operations and have carte blanche. Unfortunately the Dodgers snatched Andrew Friedman several years ago…

Last edited 2 years ago by JackFrost
steelgolf
Super Member
2 years ago
Reply to  JackFrost

Borderline criminal scandals? Let’s see what the Skaggs death criminal trial unveils.

JackFrost
Super Member
2 years ago
Reply to  steelgolf

There was a reason I used the term “borderline.” IF any high ranking execs knew of Kay’s actions and did nothing to stop it were they not aiding and abetting criminal activity ????

At the very least Arte and his crew were seriously negligent.

Last edited 2 years ago by JackFrost
GrandpaBaseball
Legend
2 years ago
Reply to  JackFrost

Who turned on the Giants?

eyespy
Super Member
2 years ago
Reply to  JackFrost

Yes, but there is a line drawn on the accountability in the contract they signed. Above Tim Mead it’s all …

comment image

eyespy
Super Member
2 years ago
Reply to  steelgolf

Did you see where someone quit his dream job at the HoF?

Too many pairs of sunglasses asking non-baseball questions is my guess.

bradllee424
Trusted Member
2 years ago
Reply to  ihearhowie3.0

He needs to get rid of Carpino. That guy has been a complete failure for this team.

eyespy
Super Member
2 years ago
Reply to  ihearhowie3.0

Organization =/= Business. And, bottom line, this is Mr. Moreno’s business.

Senator_John_Blutarsky
Legend
Reply to  JackFrost

But didn’t Arte and his cronies hire St. Joe? I’m sure you think that was a brilliant decision by them, right?

JackFrost
Super Member
2 years ago

Others have used the “blind squirrel” analogy around these parts so I might do the same. 😉

If you look at Arte’s major baseball related decisions in total very few have worked out for the good and MANY have been horrendous.

I DO happen to think that hiring Maddon was a good decision. And it is far too soon to pass judgment on the correctness of that choice.

As far as I am concerned Arte’s good moves, bringing in Vlad, extending Trout, hiring Maddon in no way make up for all the really bad ones; Josh Hamilton, Vernon Wells, dismantling the scouting department, firing Eddie Bane, Albert’s huge deal, keeping Scioscia on WAY, WAAAAY, beyond his expiration date ( probably the most destructive of all since it most likely cost at least one and maybe two more World Series titles) , keeping crony Carpino in position of power, ditching Torii Hunter in favor of Albert, and the list goes on…,

So, no, it is not impossible for bad owners to sometimes make the right move. But the overall ledger and record needs to be looked at. That is what counts.

Last edited 2 years ago by JackFrost
tommyshalo
Trusted Member
2 years ago
Reply to  angelslogic

Actually, I’m becoming a big fan of this series.

eyespy
Super Member
2 years ago
Reply to  tommyshalo

That Ohtani guy seems to have been miscast in his role

Halo71
Trusted Member
2 years ago

Our “closer” has a -0.2 WAR and allows 2.8 HR/9 innings, which is just what you want out of a closer

Jessica DeLine
Admin
Super Member
2 years ago
Reply to  Halo71

Building a bullpen isn’t always easy but Minasian flat out failed to build even an adequate one so far.

Halo71
Trusted Member
2 years ago
Reply to  Jessica DeLine

I’ll admit I was excited by Iglesias just by looking at his numbers, then I realized he’s a head case

GrandpaBaseball
Legend
2 years ago
Reply to  Jessica DeLine

You are right, but what options does Perry have? The same that Billy had. A MLB payroll that has 3 – 30 million dollars a year with an additional 24 million cannot be a winner especially with injuries and an absentee contract. I do not like what the Angels have become at all but Arte just keeps getting involved and handcuffs his first time GM’s. The last 4 have been excited to get to the top, but have to deal with budget limitations and Owner interference. Example is the Rendon signing. While we did need a 3b we did not need a 35 million dollar one. This seasons BP is no different than the one from any other since 2010.

eyespy
Super Member
2 years ago

I believe that DerPoto promised that a team could be run successfully this way, “just look at Oakland”. But when JerJer was hired, we still had that thing called a farm. That was already being neglected and shredded for any lost costs. Them the GM just traded anything with value for nonsense.

JerJer thought he was a mastermind of pitching. So, he let Mr. Moreno build up his billboards with big names to put up in lights, and he would build that pitching staff all the naysayers of his talents would envy all the way to the HoF.

The DiPoto Five Four happened, and then Arte lost all faith in pitching being a terrible place to invest money, and figured out that people will still come to games with a crappy staff.

So by not spending money, you make money. How about that.

eyespy
Super Member
2 years ago
Reply to  eyespy

LA Times makes it so difficult to poach images.

comment image

That is where all of our pitching woes began.

Fansince1971
Legend
2 years ago
Reply to  eyespy

Our pitching woes began before this moment. It actually was one of the more ridiculous solutions to those woes.

eyespy
Super Member
2 years ago
Reply to  Fansince1971

But this is what sealed the way our pitching staff was financed from that day forward.

JackFrost
Super Member
2 years ago
Reply to  eyespy

That was a real winning class!

eyespy
Super Member
2 years ago
Reply to  Jessica DeLine

He came to the organization late.

He picked up the major part of his staff a day after Spring Training closed.

He is being hamstrung for sure with imaginary budget constraints that he promised to follow.

That and not having any trade pieces, he needs to use cash, which only gets you free agents, but the budget is short on cash, and most free agents with any talent won’t play here because the cash isn’t that great, and we have no scouts to look for real talent because they cost money which isn’t available because of the bottom line.

eyespy
Super Member
2 years ago
Reply to  Halo71

He gets things done. Win or lose you don’t sell much at the concession stands after the game is done. 🤷‍♂️

Senator_John_Blutarsky
Legend

Solution? Convince a majority of MLB owners to vote in a permanent rule change to 6 inning games. This significantly reduces the need for relief pitchers, thus leveling the playing field for franchises that are seemingly incapable of developing more than one average-to-good pitcher per decade.

Thank you, have a wonderful day! 😀

Eric_in_Portland
Legend
2 years ago

Any constructive ideas we might have are like the “if I were Perry” essays. He didn’t pay any attention then and he likely won’t now.

The only way out is to have experienced baseball people as scouts, draft wisely, stock the minors and have a real system. It has to start with the scouts.

Tonight the Bees got 3 late runs to go ahead only to give up 9 in an inning. There’s no real hope down there. Perry will have to create the thing, pretty much from scratch. Will Arte let him?

I’m still shaking my head over us ignoring undrafted free agents last summer. It had to be for two reasons. Arte didnt want to sign anyone else and/or Billy didn’t know who he wanted to sign.

Perry will have to convince Arte to spend on real scouts. As for this season, forget it and start building.

Last edited 2 years ago by Eric_in_Portland
LAAFan
Trusted Member
2 years ago

There’s no way out, it’s near impossible to focus on scouting AND go all in right now. Plus if you’re Perry, do you even make a 5 year plan? Chances are you’re gone by Year 3.

YOUknowulovetheIE
Trusted Member
2 years ago

The Angel’s bullpen is russian roulette. 1 out of 6 chance someone is dying/losing the game.

matthiasstephan
Super Member
2 years ago

It really is the issue. One can live with a starter that goes into the sixth with 3ERs – that is almost a ‘quality start’ – but the relief corps can’t give up 5 more in the last 3+ innings.

Maddon has faith. He rested Mayers and Iglesias. They didn’t pull through. Perhaps they return to form, but it is hard to watch. This is the other side of us winning all those games in the 8th early on. We need to get back to that.

LAAFan
Trusted Member
2 years ago

To be serious though, there’s a lot of work to do on this team. Putting on my armchair GM hat, here’s what I’ve got.

Starters next year: Ohtani, C-Rod, and Canning. Heaney, Bundy, Cobb, Quintana all gone. That leaves so many spots, but what can you do. In my head Bundy and Heaney get some marginal prospects at the deadline. Sign a Lance Lynn type as a solid #3 behind Ohtani and C Rod.

Bullpen: Obviously this is the Dante’s Inferno of the team. Get an A grade closer, damn the costs, and end the madness. I’m talking Josh Hader level. No more head cases. Get at least another quality bullpen arm as well for setup duties.

Catcher- They all go. New starter, and maybe Ward is forced to be the permanent backup.

Infield- I’m gonna do something wild, and move Walsh to right field permanently, mostly because I think it’d be easier to get a decent bat at first base. Sign someone there. Fletch at 2nd. New SS from God knows where. Rendon is locked at 3rd.

Outfield- Get another outfielder to platoon with Upton. Trout and Walsh in center and right. You might be wondering what about Adell and Marsh…

Prospects: End the saga, and trade them both. Get pitching, catching, shortstop, bullpen, whichever of the dozen holes you’d like.

I know this isn’t possible, but welcome to Angels baseball.

matthiasstephan
Super Member
2 years ago
Reply to  LAAFan

Has Marsh been a ‘saga’? Even Adell is young. I think too high expectations from the fanbase is pushing this line – and I don’t think it is in our interests.

Also, I think ‘Lance Lynn’ type and ‘Josh Hader level’ are pretty vague. Unless you mean get those specific guys – who does one target. Do you not thing Bundy = solid #3? And your analysis leaves us with only three starters (with Ohtani full-time in the rotation). Who else takes the bump every 5 days. I think that is a bigger issue – and I don’t think trading Adell and Marsh and having to sign a 1B (because you put Walsh in RF) is going to do it.

LAAFan
Trusted Member
2 years ago

Marsh seems to have gotten injured a couple of times already, and I was trying to avoid injury prone whenever possible. Adell looked straight up bad. He’s definitely still young, although in general I don’t think we need outfielders. I think their prospect capital could be better spent on any number of black holes.

To answer your other pitcher questions, they were definitely left vague on purpose. It’s more just in my head, how does this team win a World Series? The thoughts that came to mind were top of the line closer + veteran but still in their prime #3 behind Shohei and C-Rod, and in a perfect world Hader/Lynn came to mind. I don’t think Bundy is a number 3, at least for a World Series caliber team. Maybe a 4 or 5, although I figured at that point they could trade him and find someone similar off the scrap heap. My rotation would be:

1. Ohtani
2. C-Rod
3. Lynn (just for argument’s sake)
4. Canning? (Because he’s young and cheap)

5 and 6 who knows. Theoretically you could slot Bundy at 4 and slide Canning down. They could also use a lefty but Q’s been shaky.

LAAFan
Trusted Member
2 years ago
Reply to  LAAFan

Just to further clarify some of my points too:

  1. I straight up hate that we have any prospects at this stage of the game. Trout’s 29, Rendon’s 31, Ohtani’s back is going to break any second. I don’t know why we’re leaving decent value in the minor leagues. In fact, I wish we had signed Dombrowski and burned it all down. The time is now.
  2. To reiterate, I don’t think my plan is possible, more of a “what would it take to actually win” type of thing. Depressingly I think this team is going to stay 80-82 until 40 year old Trout hobbles off into the sunset.
matthiasstephan
Super Member
2 years ago
Reply to  LAAFan

Well, we might disagree. We need to hit on some prospects (at least one OF, hopefully both, Walsh and Fletcher, for example) so we have money to spend on what we need.

Sure, it helps we aren’t paying Pujols after this year, even more if we can replace Upton’s cost with Adell/Marsh at league minimum. If you don’t hit with prospects, you can’t afford to compete. That simple. Too many people to pay.

We are in a need to buy pitching mode. We need to pray that Detmers, Yan, CRod, Naughton, etc fill out half our pen/rotation in coming years, or we will see Trout on a last place team for the rest of his career. We can’t get there by trading prospects for highly-paid players.

LAAFan
Trusted Member
2 years ago

My point is more that we don’t have time to waste. Even 2 years for Marsh, Adell, etc. is a killer imo, if we’re talking about getting prime Trout and Ohtani deep in the playoffs.

Guest
2 years ago
Reply to  LAAFan

Who are your seven and eight pitchers who will be needed to pitch half the season after Ohtani and C-Rod go down with injuries?

LAAFan
Trusted Member
2 years ago
Reply to 

Lol totally agree, I had to squint really hard counting on those two.

LAAFan
Trusted Member
2 years ago

Plan? Two words. Carlos. Correa. 20 year contract, 50 mil a year.

WallyChuckChili
Legend
2 years ago
Reply to  LAAFan

Bring Pujols back!

Guest
2 years ago

I’m ready to embrace Soggy Joe as “Tank Commander”. I’d rather watch the AAA/4A guys playing in a lost season than continuing to trot out Upton and the corpse of Albert Pujols like we were doing. Maybe we unearth the next Jared Walsh!

Agree on the negative comments htennis, everyone is entitled to complain about this awful team, some people really start to sound like broken records game-in and game-out.

The people at the masthead have got a tough job this season

DMAGZ13
Trusted Member
2 years ago

Solution #1 : use whatever internet clout you have to force Perry out of hiding. You are in charge of the website. Do something other than Jeff Fletcher which is bow to Arte. You can make things trend in the internet the way one of the kids who runs an IG got Bauer to Anaheim to trend.

I honestly don’t understand why people are ok with his silence. I mean given the Pujols debacle, his FA acquisition debacles and the serious Trout injury plus the restart of the minors and the Jo Adell strike out bonanza, Marsh injury, and Adams secret ailment, Perry needs to be called to the carpet and explain what direction the franchise is headed. He took them somewhere with his moves, and making global news with Pujols so man the hell up and talk.

The fact that he’s pussy footing his job is incredible given how he didn’t stop talking during the off-season. I mean it’s not like Perry said he would step back and just let the players play. He went on and on about “there are other ways to address run prevention besides get a whole new staff” that FO can do. I thought he meant trying to use analytics and whatever they do in cutting edge front offices. Well then, it appears his alternate ways have sunk this team even worse.

This team looks just as bad without Pujols, even more dead without him and now the silence in the organization is deafening. He can’t name all this shit on him and get away with it.

FungoAle
Super Member
2 years ago

Let’s win tomorrow, don’t want to see Oakland walk in here and kick our ass.