While the Winter Meetings themselves did not produce a ton of fireworks, there was definitely a lot of player movement and acquisition this week.
It started off with the Mets handing Juan Soto a ridiculous 15 year $765 million contract right about the time executives were checking into their hotel suites Sunday night. That’s a cool $981,000 per week every week for 15 years. Or you could just collect an even million bucks every week other than the last week of the year.
Jilted by Soto, who might have been jilted by not getting a complimentary suite, the Yanks then handed lefty Max Fried an insane 8 year $218 million deal. This was the start of their Plan B but they can’t stop there. Really, they are better off with Fried, Christian Walker, and some depth than just Soto.
The largest remaining free agent prize is Roki Sasaki, who was posted just in time for the Winter Meetings. His agent discussed all things Roki without giving a lot of specifics (good agent). One thing stands out in that Roki doesn’t like dealing with the media. Given the throng of Japanese media following the Dodgers, that could impede his wearing blue.
Apparently the big market clubs are playing with Monopoly money nowadays.
After those huge splurges, however, came some notable trades (which are always more fun to discuss).
Cleveland was the most entertaining team this week. First they shipped superb defender Andres Giminez and his large contract to Toronto for the versatile Spencer Horwitz, then hours later shipped Horwitz to Pittsburgh for solid rotation arm Luis Ortiz and two pitching prospects. On the afternoon, Cleveland shed significant salary, picked up a mid rotation piece and added some prospects. I’m still not sure what Toronto accomplished.
Later that evening Texas traded for Jake Burger, a slugging first baseman/DH. Miami picked up 3 prospects.
That little batch of trades was a precursor to the largest trade of the off season. Boston landed ace Garrett Crochet in exchange for their two most recent first round picks and a couple of their other top 25 prospects. I really like the return for Chicago but keep in mind I was really high on Braden Montgomery heading into last year’s draft. Time will tell, but it appears to me one set of Sox will be much better now and the other Sox likely will come out ahead in the long run.
Boston wasn’t the only club to add a pitcher named Garrett this week. Welcome the newest Angel Garrett McDaniels to the fold. Mickey D was plucked from the Dodgers in the Rule V draft on Wednesday, evening the score for them poaching Ohtani from us.
After a bit of a rough start to the season as a starter, McDaniels was absolutely nails as a reliever. But can he jump from High A/AA to the bigs? We’ll see in Tempe.
Dodgers sites were loving this kid after that move to the pen.
Apparently McDaniels is not the only talent Perry Minasian is trying to add to the roster. Word is the Angels are one of the few teams Nolan Arenado will approve a trade to and he’s on the radar along with other infielders.
For his part, Perry has checked in on Nolan, Alec Bohm, and Eugenio Suarez, all of whom would be huge improvements at third base. The Angels also have looked at versatile infielder Gleyber Torres.
Boras mouthpiece Jon Heyman is rumored to have said Torres turned down the Angels to stay on the East Coast. I can’t find any real verification of that, but that is the word on the digital street.
There’s also been conflicting reports of the Angels trading an outfielder, likely Taylor Ward. We shall see.
Ultimately the goal should be adding young talent to build a sustainable winner. Well, the Angels get to pick second in the 2025 MLB draft. Take a look at the talent that will be on the board at that time.
Turk’s Teeth is the prospect guru but I will say in the last few years I’ve started watching a decent amount of college baseball. Over those years the guys rated in the top 5 of the preseason polls are often replaced by players who improve and jump up the board. So if we are picking LaViolet or Brenman in July that likely means they had great enough years to hold off on all of the other challengers.
For now, I can snuggle all warm in my bed thinking of seeing this in coming years:
Hopefully the Angels do something exciting tonight and these need to be updated immediately. If not, link what I missed below and if you have a 2025 MLB Draft darling or hopefully drop a name.
I now the holiday bustle is upon us, but try to relax and enjoy those around you. The people in our lives are truly our greatest gifts. We’ll always remember them, not what was wrapped up under a tree.
When will the win loss prediction thread be posted?
heh. Can’t really have that until Spring Training and we know who’s on the team. But if you have a December prediction, go ahead!
My hopium dealer told me 75 & 87.
65 and 97 seems more likely. I’m getting a bit old for hopium, so I try to stick with nice wines.
Probably need to see if they make any more moves so I’m guessing in early March.
Addressing Roy Hobbs interesting question below – i.e. how do the Angels compete without free agency and how a AAA team suddenly becomes a good major league team without big free agency investments.
Fundamentally, this is a team that won 73 games two years in a row with the greatest player maybe of all time – Ohtani in his prime. Ohtani and his 10 WAR left and the Angels went 63-99. It was almost a spot on correlation to the reduction of Ohtani’s contribution. So 2024 was not an outlier. 2022-2024 show that this team was a 63 win team who happened to have Ohtani.
So, if you believe in WAR – then this team needs to currently add 20 WAR per season to just get to .500. It needs to add 30 WAR to become a legitimate playoff contender.
Adding 20-30 WAR per season is pricey. We just saw what a 6 WAR player cost in Juan Soto. At around $8-$10 million per WAR, you are talking about $200m to $300m added to the existing payroll PER YEAR to add the players necessary to likely become a “good major league team”.
If we had Cohen as an owner, maybe that would be a reasonable course to expect. But we do not have Cohen – we have Arte who is definitely not a miser but sets budgets in the $200m range. With that kind of budgetary restriction and the reality of the team that exists, there is no way for this team to add enough WAR with its existing players and payroll to come close to even .500 through free agency. So why do it?
With the Angels’ current owner and the budget, the only chance the team has is to be bad for a while – live in the 100 loss per year world for a couple seasons – and build up the farm through the draft and trades. It’s the only chance really with the reality that exists. That is why it makes little sense for the team to add a few WAR here and there via free agency unless it’s to fill out the roster with short term, low risk deals. There is no real benefit achieved at this point to a megastar type contract because it won’t be enough to make that big of a difference. A 10 WAR addition at $70 million per season only brings the team to the mid-70s in wins which is still mediocre and a total waste of money.
The team needs to go “all-in” on a rebuild. It is truly the only real chance to fix things with the owner we have and the budget that exists. Rebuild with a young team – suck for a while – and if and when the young team starts to show promise (such as an 80 win season) that is when you go out and add the big free agents to turn the team into a 90 win team. Until then, spending big money on superstar players is pissing into the ocean.
Exactly.
No amount of hopium can alter this reality.
So the short of your mini treatise is: You don’t compete unless you want to be subjected to another 5 to 6 years of loser baseball?
Good thing you aint running this team ’71. Im too old to be keep watching the repeat of this turd factory production with the added bonus of a thrill down the leg that everyone claims they get by watching over matched kids keep screwing up at the ML level with the hope of maybe turning into real honest to goodness big Leaguers someday.
What choice is there unless the owner is willing to increase team payroll dramatically which there is no indication that he is? It’s not my fault that this organization has been run into the ground and its two mega contracts are complete failures. Under those circumstances, yes, we may have to put up with some really bad baseball for a while in order to have a better team long-term.
By the way, I’m still waiting for you to pay off the bet.
Who said any of this is your fault ’71? I just don’t prescribe to this tired narrative that the only way the Angels will ever compete is to commit to a complete teardown.And I certainly will never believe that rebuilding a team needs to be a binary decision between drafting/player development vs buying free agents
By the Way, if you are waiting for something from me you are waiting in vain. I previously paid off our little bet by proclaiming your victory to everyone on this site both clearly and congenially in my post way back on Halloween,
I’m sure you could go back and find it but I’m too G.A. to repost it although it was kind of a cathartic moment for me. I was really appreciative of the supportive responses I received from many of the Crashers and demonstrated to me that this place is truly a community despite our chronic differences.
Too bad you missed it.
I can vouch, I remember his declaration of non-victory
It looks as if we are saying 1 WAR = 1 win which obviously isn’t the case. And I know we know that. But WAR does make for fun reading. For instance, I did not know that the Rangers had the highest team WAR in the AL West. But they finished 10 games under .500. Relief pitching was a black hole for them last year.
If we go by WAR, the gap between the Angels and Rangers is 9 WAR (yes, Houston won the division and their WAR is .6 < the Rangers, go figure). If we want to compete for a division title I think there is the bar. Angels are 5.5 WAR behind in batting and 3.8 WAR behind in pitching. I agree, there is no way to make that up in free agent signings. Just not realistic, imho.
I agree with your last sentence but I think the WAR analysis you make is not correct. In any event, the bottom line is the team is way too far behind from a WAR perspective unless the owner is willing to greatly increase payroll, and I don’t think Arte is willing to do that.
I agree with each of you guys but I also think the most logical result is 26s first sentence and there is no guarantee of success so I’ve really been poking at where do we go from here given this is where we are. We could do the full rebuild but it doesn’t seem like the club is all in on that. I’m all for continuing to acquire and stockpile young players and also spending long term on players who will help us while the young players develop.
It’s not my money so I have no say. But if I was Arte, I would sign Alonso and Bregman because we currently have no future at 1B and 3B. Regardless of how Schanuel turns out, he will never be Pete Alonso. I would extend Rengifo because he plays multiple positions ands could play 2B for now. That would give us a very good hitting infield with promise at catcher, and above average LF and CF, and give Adell another shot. We would have a deep line up and in 2 years Rendon goes off the books. You could still trade anyone you want should the opportunity arise and continue to acquire and stockpile young talent. I believe the pitching is on the upswing as we move forward. No guarantee that this team would make the postseason but I think they would have a very good shot to and would be much more fun to watch than the team we have now.
Also, with the way the draft is set up, there is no guarantee you get a great draft choice by losing.
As an owner, you would fill the stands, sell jerseys, and make money. All of the bad free agent decisions prior to Rendon were bad at the time they were made and should have been avoided but Rendon is a pure outlier and very unlikely to repeat.
I know the FO said we are “going to contend”. Is that why you think the teams not “all in on rebuild”? Cause, you should know, FOs just say that stuff…. even when they are basically rebuilding. For all we know they meant “Don’t worry, we won’t trade Trout, buy tickets.”
But the only really valuable pieces we have left to trade are Rengifo and Ward. Winter’s far from done. They’ve added place holder talent like Hendricks and Soler….. the only other move that doesn’t say “quietly rebuilding” is Kikuchi, which I think was a stupid signing.
But the fact that they aren’t even trying to replace the offense that a guy like Drury was supposed to give us, or half Ohtani’s offense, etc is kind of a clue.
Agree with you on all points. Words like “compete” are used for marketing purposes. Going behind the words, the money it would require to try to compete is completely unrealistic with Arte’s budget. And frankly I think it will be more fun to watch a true rebuild.
Interesting, but watching a total rebuild isn’t fun. It’s a long 2-3 year slog to mediocrity with a hope of being better than that. Last year’s efforts plaint Schanuel, Adell, Moniak, Neto, and O’Hoppe plus occasional other younger guys with some young pitchers here and there was fine. No need to get rid of everyone and claim to start over.
Alonso and Bregman are completely unrealistic. Just silly to think Arte will commit $80m per year additional payroll. It’s just pure magical thinking.
But have you considered that with the power of the Rally Monkey anything is possible?
Yes. This is what I meant last night…. accept you resorted to Math and WAR and stuff, which is total bullshit to CtPG Guy unless it’s helping him demand something or complain. It’s also fruity and nerdy.
I think it helps to identify the problem in a simple and practical way.
As much as I hate the latrines…this is a great story.
Freddie Freeman’s Grand Slam ball sold $1,560,000.
Good for this kid, if his family does it right, set for life!
https://catalogs.scpauctions.com/online-auctions/scp-auctions-inc/10-25-2024-freddie-freeman-world-series-game-1-walk-off-grand-slam-baseball—thorough-documentation-incl-sports-investors-photomatch-6863454
Nice. The auction house and tax man will take their cuts and he’ll gave a college education and down payment for a home handled.
We are not likely to be above .500 in 2025, and should not try too hard to achieve it. If it happens great; but save the money. Don’t even think about any of the big $ free agents.
Our remaining goals for the off season should be to add a decent left handed bat, and to pick up reasonably priced bounce back reliever candidates. Those type of relievers can have good value at the trade deadline if they pan out.
For the bat I like Profar at 3/45, or Pederson at 2/24. (All values from mlb trade rumors).
For relievers A T Minter 2/16, Michael Soroka 2/14, Andrew Kittrege 2/14, and Tommy Kahnle 2/13 are all reasonable short term options. A reunion with Carlos Estevez for 3/27 would be fine. If we think we might actually be competitive in three years Jeff Hoffman 4/44 could be good, although that’s pushing the bounds of what Arte might be willing to spend.
I am not enthused about trading Ward at this time. With another year after his scary injury, he well could put up even better numbers next year. Which would make his value higher at the trade deadline than it is now. OK, if someone wants to blow us away with a prospect package now, go for it. Otherwise wait. We especially should wait if we don’t sign a decent outfielder to replace him.
500?!?!
The team as currently constructed, factoring in the annual missed games from Trout and Rendon, will be very lucky to break 70 wins in 2025.
.500? Heck no. Even if Arte goes crazy signing free agents, we’re still not sniffing .500. And it would be a serious mistake to go that route. As things stand now, we’re headed for 90 losses or so.
I think everyone, from Arte to the guys on this site who think “we should just sign XY&Z….. bu bu but yeah also the kids and farm….” so we can, you know, compete a little next year, should all try a little keyboard to brain exercise.
Every time you have an urge to go get Bellinger and a 1B and another SP plus maybe a pen arm, but then trade Ward cause “you believe the farm’s important” go on to baseball reference, or FanGraphs and LOOK AT THE FKING COMPETITION. You know, the guys you want to compete with.
The only way we are competing with the Astros and Rangers is if we go get Polanco, Bellinger, Goldy, Yates, Lynn…. and then both those Texas teams all catch Polio. And the Mariners totally fail to hit and the A’s pitching doesn’t get better. Sure, a miracle can happen and we have a bunch of career years next year… but that can happen with the guys we have now so it’s not something to plan for.
A sharp pain now or a constant ache for the next six years. WTF you people think will be accomplished if you and Arte’s dream of competing with this half baked loaf of an org actually happens next year, other than making us shittier longer, I’m just not seeing.
I think it’s more you have needs and wants, you see another hungry year coming, and you’re thinking that being the McBurger of baseball teams doesn’t have to be THAT BAD…. we can just do it for a season or two…. Rendon will be gone, then wasting millions of dollars and hundreds of innings that kids could be playing, so you can watch CODY FKING BELLINGER for a year, will have been totally worth it….
Yes. the team will have huge holes. It will not hit LH/RH pitching well. Some guy who can’t field is gonna play. Some rookie’s gonna get too much rope. The pen will blow leads. You’re gonna watch a bad team, you’ll be bored, your ego will hurt. Be a man about it for Christ sake.
For all the shit talking most of you do about Arte your ideas are basically the same as his… accept you mix a little magic in and you get to compete and build a young core at the same time cause, well, you don’t have to actually do it. We aren’t gonna magically have four Bobby Witt Jrs. The young players are all gonna generally need full seasons of playing time to get any good…. more like T Ward did. The faster we get that done the better, and the younger and cheaper said players will be.
Let’s just let the horror show happen. Get it over with. Develop some kids. Have a low payroll when Rendon’s off the books but a pile of cheap talent who has had it’s growing pains on the roster, then actually spend to actually compete. Who gives a shit who’s gonna cover 3B when Rendon goes down or up our average against pitchers from east of the Mississippi in 2025? Fix that stuff and hurray…. you’re likely in third place, just under .500. But at least you felt a little more girthy in January, and just wait, by 2027 maybe we can finish over .500 with a 25th ranked farm. Again.
I’m all for no big free agent signings, especially if they have a QO penalty linked to them. 2025, and 2026 draft, suffer with slight gains for the next 3 years, then the seasoned kids will be up and other teams will be trying to poach our players and farm. 2025 draft is the best opportunity for this team. Stay the course, large contracts off the books, young, hungry players on the field, and a new manager in the clubhouse.
Yeah, a more practical approach would be trade Ward for prospects, bring in Grichuk. platoon him with Moniak in center, sign a bounce back candidate like Polanco or Moncada, then wait out the relief market.
That’s a well below par team that is still good enough to win some series and have a hot streak or two.
But it adds prospects and trade chips while giving youngsters playing time.
We’ll see the return of Pillar before we will see Grichuk return to the big A
It’s December and Angels have not committed to a full rebuild and want to formulate a better team on the field than 2024. Ward for strict minor league prospects is not going to occur. What I could see is that Perry will get a piece for the major league roster with contract control along with a prospect. Sure, it lessens the ranking of the prospect(s) coming our way. Come July trading deadline, philosophy should change. I’m for the full rebuild and your idea but they seem emotional about wanting to hang onto Trout.
If we’re lucky he does what Jeff said. Sign Grichuk or Hays to play, trade Ward for the whole boat of prospects. Same with Rengifo since we have Nueman.
…and Anderson now that we have Kikooochie.
Willie Mays Hays?
Yah. Only trouble is that I’m not sure I want the “filler” players like Polanco or Moncada doe 3 years. One, sure…. and hopefully that one season is only through July and we get more kids for em. But I really want to burn the boats here. Force the Angels to play kids or AAAA players when a kid fails. MAKE the FO/Arte see the need to invest in helping kids develop.
I don’t want kids like Moore n Lugo up in April, but I also don’t want Washington to wonder if he needs to play Grichuk instead of “KID” come mid-June. Though i actually think Grichuk’s perfect cause he can move around the OF. Hays too.
Polanco will likely want a one year prove it deal.
Moncada will be on the market a long time.
I doubt we’d need to sign either fur 3 years. Although if I knew Polanco could be penciled in at third, I’d go multi year for him.
If we are not going after Kim than definitely sign Polanco to a one year deal . Not sure if he could play 3B ( he can definitely play second) but should rebound and provide us much better left handed bat options from the infield.
Plus as an added bonus he absolutely destroys Houston Astro pitching
Lugo aint no kid. At least in Christian Moore sense.He is now entering his 6th season of minor league ball.
Jesus Christ Laura. I’m just saying. I don’t want to open the season with a pile of MiLB guys, but I don’t want them to have to compete much for innings once the season gets goin either. Not that Lugo is 19.
Agreed with you all the way, you are indeed 💯 % right on. Take a few years of rebuilding and set up for the winning years and hope to catch lightning in bottle like 2002 team did. This idea of thinking that the team should be competitive every year is exactly what got us here to begin with. We don’t need Bellinger or Alonzo; we need to be realistic and trade for good prospects that hopefully develop into major leaguers. You know it is fun watching as prospects grow and mature into competent players.
I know what you’re saying but I’m still struggling with how a AAA team will magically become a really good major league team just because we only have AAA players.
Because we’ll be able to cycle a dozen plus AAA players through MLB the next two years so we can see which ones are actually good.
That’s assuming you have the players.
You’re stomping on my hopium infused daydreams here. Sure, getting Bellinger, Sasaki and Burnes while developing our future core is a fantasy, but they haven’t shown great success in developing players, so I don’t know if that’s any more realistic. Still, if the team is going to suck, it might as well not be hemorrhaging money as it does so. I can be just as excited when Kavadas strikes out with the bases loaded as I can when Bellinger does.
I support the sharp pain now path but the club doesn’t. I’ve said all along that until Rendon goes off the books the club isn’t going anywhere. We do not yet have good young players and it will take 3-5 years to address that assuming you hit on your choices. I am less enthused about the team this year than I was last. The younger players didn’t really pan out so now they need more new young players. The club will not improve in the short or long term by playing bad players. There is nothing wrong with acquiring established players if they can help you long term and don’t block younger players. The younger players need to be given time to develop and playing them at the major league level before they are ready doesn’t help the club short term or long term. In the mean time, someone has to play at the major league level.
If they’re not trading Ward, Rengifo, and Anderson for prospects, then they aren’t improving at all. if you want to go all in you should trade Joyce. By the time we’re competitive he will most likely be injured and he is probably our most valuable trade chip.
I get the frustration of FA spending when this team is far from being competitive. I think people on this site don’t like the tank and build plan cause we already have the longest playoff drought, and then they are asked to wait another 3-4yrs to develop young players. Then there’s the mystery factor: there no guarantees any of the top players you draft are going to be MLB. Most of the better players and stars today weren’t even drafted in the top 10. Look at Moniak, what if Philly kept on that same road. Instead they spent and their core of Harper Wheeler and crew are mostly FA’s. Obviously that plan has not worked for Angels but it’s mostly because they keep signing players who bust. I am in that boat where we fill in some gaps while keeping our young prospects. You never know, who thought the Tigers would contend last year..
I thought the Tigers would contend last year…. and the year before actually but everyone got hurt….
Trades should be to accumulate prospects, and free agent signings should be to fill gaps for a couple of years until prospects are ready.
2B Rengifo
SS Neto
LF Trout
CF Bellinger
DH Soler
3B Polanco
C O’Hoppe
RF Adell
1B Schanuel
Trade maybe Anderson for Bellinger
Bench Moniak , Newman, D’Arnoud, Rendon,
SP Kikuchi
SP Soriano
SP Scherzer
SP Detmers
SP Hendricks
I could live with this while LaViolette, Moore, Dana and Klassen do some more developing during 2025. Those could all pop up in 2026 as ready to be good players, not just contributors. They need 4-5 WAR players out of Jace and Moore. Still need another monster bat though. I wish we knew how to develop 2nd rounders or sign international talent. I want a Yordan Alvarez or Brent rooker type
Interesting. I don’t see Ward anywhere, maybe because we got prospects for him. Would be nice to take back Hoerner with Belli’s bloated contract, would have to sweeten it but Nico could play 3rd. Former GG.
Ideally I think I’d trade for Bellinger then trade Ward for prospects, preferably a Pirates or Royals pitcher.
Improve both now and later.
I fully agree with others that we need to balance the lineup with some LHH.
1 of Moncada/Polanco
and 1 of Bellinger, Kepler, Profar. (Lazy immediately-available examples, doesn’t have to be exactly that, but something like that).
Someone also suggested Brandon Lowe for 2b/COF, but trading with the Rays is scary.
I still think we’d need another SP. I’d probably shoot for 2 of: Buehler, Flaherty, Morton, Soroka, Sasaki and trade Anderson.
However, I don’t think Arte would touch anything close to this salary level.
We’re in a weird zone where I both want to see the kids get a shot and add arms.
At this point I’d probably rather have Silent C, Klassen, and Dana get looks than sign another meh name.
I think those guys you mentioned will definitely get a shot this season one way or another.
As you and others have suggested, I would 100% trade Ward right now. I think not trading him is a big mistake.
My thinking on the idea of signing some of the pitchers I suggested is because I think they give us a shot to possibly compete, while avoiding long-term, expensive commitments. They also seem tradeable should the team be out of contention, so we can add more to the farm at the deadline.
As for the hitters I suggested, same general idea of compete vs flip em at the deadline. We suck vs RHP and don’t have any mashers waiting on the farm.
Again though, what I suggested is inkohnceivable as Arte would not go that deep on payroll. *But* if we only spent short-term money for these players, we’d have a shot at competing with the fall back of trading those players for prospects at the deadline. I’d be all for that.
Although I like the Kikuchi signing, I just don’t get it as standalone because it’s not getting us closer to competing on its own.
You have a good plan for sure.
I know it’s pretty unrealistic and hopefully I didn’t come off too strong or anything like that.
There are just so many trade deadlines that come and go where we have very little to no trade assets. I’d love to change that and cash in some prospects from desperate/overpaying teams.
The problem is that Klassen and Dana are not ready yet and all you would be doing is wasting their service time. We need to give them time to develop instead of rushing things even if it’s only one more year.
I’d rather play with eight guys on the field than pay Bellinger 32M to be what he is next year. I’d rather do Jeff’s idea of signing Hays.
OT: watching the Army/Navy game. The men and women of our service academies are simply amazing.
To meet both the academic and physical requirements is tough then to make time to play high level football.
I’m glad these kids are on our side. They truly are our best.
USA! USA USA!
A’s pick up Springs from Tampa Bay. Not a bad pitcher to take chance on
We need to hire a 45 yr old farm system director from Cleveland.
We should hire away people from the top college baseball programs {especially from the SEC}
Not the worst idea at all…. or even just get some scouts/consultants out of the SEC….
I wonder where the Angels fit in with data and stats and the future. Do the Angels know how to spell data?
https://www.zdnet.com/article/5-ways-ai-is-changing-baseball-and-big-data-is-up-at-bat/
Wasn’t the whole Scioscia/Jedi ordeal over use of data? WHAT they do with it is certainly debatable, but I think they know what data is, even if it doesn’t match up with your sarcasm.
If you watch the games, you will see the players go back into the dugout and grab an iPad and watch and discuss with other players and coaches. Do you think they are watching Taylor Swift videos? They have an overload of data at their fingertips. Of course, so does everyone else on every other team.
I actually think they are watching Taylor Swift videos based on their adjustments. Whatever they are watching isn’t helping them improve.
Removing Tucker from the AL West = adding 2 wins.
Now we might pick up 2 more if Luis Castillo leaves.
Perry’s silence is a long game.
Long game is 4 years and counting…
I don’t think the Astros have downgraded that much to swing the balance of the division, they retool better than most and Seattle, likely to get infused offense in a Castillo deal. Makes too much sense to not trade Castillo this offseason as they are deep in starting pitching. Plus, Sasaki is a top Mariner priority and the 3rd pick, Bremner(?), falling to their laps. With a different PBO and GM in Seattle, they would be challenging for the division every year.
Castillo dominating us with 80% FB+Sinker usage has run its course.
Get that man outta the division PLEASE lol
Wow!!!
For any of you who want Bregman…..
Bregman at age 30 is a guy who is not too dissimilar from Rendon when Rendon came to the Angels at age 30. Rendon’s numbers (in the previous 5 seasons to being signed by the Angels) were actually better than Bregman’s age 25-30 numbers during which Bregman was good for approximately 4 WAR per season. Rendon was closer to averaging 6 WAR per season from age 25-30.
With the Angels luck on the FA front, Bregman could become a very rich, often injured player who hopelessly underperforms by comparison to his contract. . I’m not saying Bregman will follow the same sad career trajectory as Rendon- but there is a chance he will and the Angels simply cannot afford another failed mega-contract given Arte’s budgetary constraints.
The much better and less risky path is to rebuild with young players as opposed to signing additional overpriced FA’s who come with no guarantee of success despite the guaranteed huge salary.
Same for Arenado albeit with less salary commitment. His offense will not improve in his age 35-37 seasons.
“Arenado, 34 in April, is owed $74MM over the next three seasons, but the Rockies are on the hook for $10MM of that under the terms of the deal that sent him from Denver to St. Louis several years ago. His offensive contributions have fallen off over the past two seasons — .269/.320/.426, compared to .293/.358/.553 in third-place MVP season in 2022 — but the six-time Platinum Glove winner remains a premium defender with excellent contact skills. That sets something of a high floor, while the money left on his contract means the asking price for Arenado (prospect-wise) won’t be exorbitant unless the Cardinals pay down a notable portion of the deal.”
When’s Josh Jung or Mark Vientos become FA’s?
The biggest problem with either of those guys is that you have to play them. Same with a lot of the other guys. Even a guy that will be off the books in two years, which seems to be the new magic mantra around here, will need to PLAY GAMES. We want kids to play games and suck so they can eventually play games and be good.
I know what you mean, but that last sentence is a path to distruction. They will not magically become good. They have to be good to begin with.
I haven’t seen many (any?) people on here championing to sign Bregman.
Per the points you laid out, it just doesn’t make any sense.
Not at all, I think the number zero comes to mind
I think Joc Pederson would be a good fit here.
I’d agree with you, but the team already has a poor fielding outfielder in Solar. And unlike Pederson, Solar can hit left-hand pitchers.
But Soler cant hit right handers very well which is the problem with pretty much everyone in our projected starting 9 not named after a fish.
Look at the career OPS vs RHP’s and deltas compared to s LHP among tour projected starters right now :
Ward -.65 ( vs RHP .740)
Neto -.252 ( vs RHP .684)
O’Hoppe +.48 (vs RHP .744)
Soler -.99 ( vs RHP .770)
Rengifo -.92 ( vs RHP .679)
Schanuel +.35 ( vs RHP .718)
Newman -.95 ( vs RHP .635)
Adell -.80 ( vs RHP .624)
Rendon (-.70 ( 2023 & 2024 vs RHP .602)
Moniak +.260 ( vs RHP .710)
D-Arnaud -.93 ( vs RHP .712)
Those are not game winning OPS vs 70% of the pitchers we will be facing unless our starters pitch like Nolan Ryan every night. However, The problem with Joc ( as many LHB at the Big A have found) his career numbers are awful there ( OPS of .479 in 57 PAs)
Of course this would mean we would have to trade Ward ( which I’m fine with) MNT would have to go back to CF ( not sure thats a good idea) and then we would cycle 2 of the worst defensive outfielders in baseball (Joc & Soler) through the left field/ DH platoon. Ward’s defense in left was rated fairly good by The fielding Bible but time and time again he did some pretty weird shit out there and on the base paths. I think this comes down to Wash and Bo Porter. If they think they could make that ugly defensive platoon play out there ( although Wash already said that Soler will primarily be a DH) then Joc maybe worth taking a one year flyer. Its not like hes blocking anyone unless you think Moniak will finally reach league average numbers or The Greek god of Strikeouts ( Kavadas) can play adequate defense during a huge offensive breakout year
Edit
Wow. It sounds like the 2025 Angels may not be very good.
Maybe 90 losses, so a 9 win improvement? And a great draft. That would make 2025 a successful season.
You are absolutely correct.
No thanks on Bregman. Going from one bad contract at third to another isn’t a good plan.
I respect your opinion and understand why you and others have it. I just don’t agree. Younger players are certainly less of a financial risk but they are a much greater performance risk. The logic you use in comparing Bregman with Rendon is just like saying that non of my previous relationships have worked out so I’m never having another relationship. Unless we acquire a new player via trade or draft, the next 5 years are likely going to be pretty dismal at 3B except for when Rengifo plays there, and even that will make some people here unhappy. I would only sign him for the 25M per that Chapman signed for, otherwise I would pass. Taylor Ward will cost 20M a year when he becomes a free agent in 2 years. I would prefer that we trade for a young 3B, but so far we don’t appear willing to go all in on the rebuild. Perry is doing a decent job with the starting pitching moving forward but position player wise we are not moving forward much in my opinion.
Certainly lack position players in the farm, but we aren’t that far away on the big league squad.
C – O’Hoppe
1B – Schanuel
2B – {hopefully Moore}
SS – Neto
3B – {this is a problem, Rengifo extension plz}
OF – Trout
OF – Adell
OF – {possibly LaViolette}
Ideally, Christian Moore locks down 2B for the next rest of the decade. And if avaliable to us at #2, Jace LaViolette can slot in the OF. There’s your homegrown squad of position players, and it’s not some crazy hopium dream either.
Didn’t we all just recently talk about Schaneul?
He isn’t very good, no power and painful to watch running the base paths unless he’s at 3b. One of Perry’s worst draft picks along with Sam Bachman and the rest of his 2021 20 pitcher catastrophe.
GRADY FUSON WHERE ARE YOU PLZ????
“No power and runs weird” is a lazy take.
Many people agree with me though that he was a big overreach. I’d rather take a one yr flyer on Anthony Rizzo.
Schanuel’s 1.3 WAR last season dwarfs Rizzo’s mighty 0.2 WAR.
Run weird? Impossible. His nickname is Flash.
Just wait for the line-up to be full of kids from the farm….and the team still can’t win.
Luckily we will still have each other to suffer together 🙂
Not next year…. but if we lose cause kids suck kids may actually get better and are easy to replace.
True, but it doesn’t make us any better.
No future HOF on that team or at least hall of very good. Maaaaaybe Neto if his body holds up for a decade. (By then Trout is an old vet). You look at teams with upside they have superstars, and these guys don’t qualify. Ethan Holiday, maybe he’s got a real chance.
Sooooo…. what are we doing now that we’ve established you don’t see a future HOF player here in December 2024? Oh, go get some of the superstars, you know, at the superstar store? Maybe pay a little extra in the draft for those “no bust guarantees” that some players come with that Arte’s been too cheap for in the past? Can we go to PlayerZone and buy parts that we shove into Niko Kavedas to turn him into Willie McCovy?
Help us out here.
I think the relationship example should be tweaked to a prostitute since there is a lot of money involved in these decisions. 😂
I’m not necessarily in disagreement with you if you had an owner who was willing to spend with an unlimited budget (like Cohen). In that situation, free agent failures, like Hamilton, Rendon, Pujols, etc. don’t matter as much because if you hit on one of them and they are productive, then the failures are only money since non-productive players can be benched or cut – it’s just money. In that situation the team owner just keeps spendinguntil a productive FA shows up.
But when you have an owner like Arte who has set and sticks to a relatively middle of the road budget, expensive free agent failures take on a completely new and bigger problem. They use up all the available money and then a team mired in mediocrity just stays there season after season. Think of the overall impact of 7 years and $260m of an unproductive Rendon on this team.
With Arte as the owner, I think the risk of another expensive free agent failure is greater than the risk of a young player who does not develop as well we would like. One anchors you to a guaranteed multi-year contract that negatively impacts the team for many seasons. The other you can just walk away from with minimal financial risk.
In short, the analysis depends on the owner and what type of budget they put into place.
I don’t disagree with your points but does that mean that we never sign anyone again because we’re afraid they won’t work out. Even though you walk away with minimal financial risk, the team never gets any better. I know Rendon was a huge bust, but proven major league players are far less of a performance risk. You really need to do both. I would support a full rebuild but the club just doesn’t seem to support that. Other than Fontenelle, who is a huge unknown, there is no one in the organization available to play 3B for years. As it is, they’re going to go another year with Schanuel and Adell to see if they become anything. Ward has just 2years left, and Rengifo is gone after this year. It’s going to get ugly real fast. We’ll be worse off in 26 than in 25. Even O’Hoppe flamed out this year at 24 and wasn’t the player we were hoping for. He has shown potential and hopefully will realize it going forward. Right now, honestly all you have long term are Neto and Trout and everyone else is hopium. They did get a DH for 2 years, but two years from now we may have almost nothing. And Moore is also an unknown. The likelihood of him staying at 2B is not that good.
The pitching, on the other hand seems to be moving in the right direction. I believe his year will a lot like last year with some better depth, but after this year, they are going to have to start making real decisions regarding position players.
We should not sign any free agents except 1 and 2 year deals to fill out the roster. Then build a new young team through the draft and trades. If and when the youngsters start playing well, that’s when you consider adding a megastar free agent to potentially compete for a Championship.
Two more years of Tony, where we know what will happen.
Trout isn’t trending on the upside either – sorry zOMGTROUT!!! BESTEST EVAH! – he’s gotta show he can play more than 60 games. You know “best shape of his life” “driven to excel”, blah blah is nothing more than hopious speculation. And yes, I know what he produced zOMG IN ONLY A THIRD OF LAST SEASON!!!!!!. But he didn’t finish it, did he?
Now you want to add another fat contract for a player moving the other side of 30? Or not so giant if in your scenario he takes LESS money than other teams offer to play… here?
Seems those kinds of decisions will need to be made, but 2-3 seasons in the future, at least. In the meantime, see what the young ones can do, maybe we have some of those “tradeable assets” everyone cries we currently don’t have. Maybe we don’t, but Bregman would be a huge waste of resources.
Why not? 🤔 🤔
Why are we signing my friend Alex?
So when the Modesto Nuts relocate to San Bernardino, will they now be called, “Deez nuts”?
Winner. You win.
Corbin Burnes?
You never weighed in on him.
One of the most famous quotes in American history. “Nuts!”
😂😆
How do we feel about Corbin Burnes?
He’s the only QO-FA that I would consider, but damn, it would hurt to lose draft picks and the cash that goes with it.
On the other hand, I just don’t see us getting that caliber of pitcher any other way (unless we use the #2 pick on a projected TOR SP).
If we did make a run at Burnes, will he sustain his ace-ness for enough years for when we hopefully have our shit together a little better (Rendon’s salary off the books)? I go back and forth on wanting to sign him.
I’m so tired of half-measures. Either rebuild or go all in.
“Angels sign 30+ year old to a mega-deal”
It has not worked out once for us in the last 2 decades. I wouldn’t be upset adding Burnes, but I’ll be very upset in 3 years when he inevitably turns into a pumpkin.
Stay the course, build the farm, ride out the Rendone contract.
Burnes is also the one QO guy I’d take.
But losing this years second round pick would hurt badly as we’re picking 5th in the round. That’s basically a late first rounder and there will certainly be many guys with first round grades available.
I have to say for now just stay put. Framber Valdez is available next year and Garrett Crochet after that. By then our 2025 second round pick might be about ready to help.
Why didn’t the doyers or mfy get him already?
I’d rather have Burnes over Snell
I wish we’d sign Sasaki….then for world peace, well I’d wish for a new corvette, then signing Sasaki….then world peace….
DO NOT, under ANY CIRCUMSTANCES, sign a QO player, even if it is Burnes. Drafting is the inexact science of scouting and odds or percentages. By removing a draft pick, you decrease those odds or percentages. And this team is NOT ready to go to the playoffs, and Burnes is NOT putting them into the playoffs.
AND we’re finally picking high enough in the early rounds that the odds are at least a little better that our draft picks pan out.
Thst maybe but with all those bullshit compensation picks after the first round it really like we are losing a draft pick near the top of the 3rd round
Deep dark secret…. he’s not THAT aceness right now. Soriano was comparable. Not AS GOOD, but not that far off. Buy 2027, when we need an ace? That’s a big risk.
If we build the farm we can trade for someone’s overpriced ace who is on a losing team when we need one. With FA becoming a total crap shoot with very few good arms to begin with it would be smart to just trade a bunch of 50 grade prospects to Pitt for Paul Skenes in three years when his arb salary gets too high for Nutting. Or some similar move.
I keep hearing stupid people on chatz complaining that the Tucker move is something the Angels needed to do. There are some really stupid people here too. Can anyone explain to me how we were gonna trade for Tucker/match that return?
Speaking of stupid people. apparently two morons from the shitty Dodgers pitching development system really like that guy we got in rule 5? Morons.
Lets go PTP. Trade everyone good that we have for unproven kids we can fume about. Sign no one exciting and expensive. Draft like a champ. Build the farm. Let the old and bitter die in the desert of sub-.500 baseball and we’ll enter into a brighter land of promise with The Kids.
I just hope we can make the playoffs before the Killer Drones take us out.
Build the farm, and yet have Osama bin Moreno spend some cash to speed this shit up.
— trade for Seiya Suziki
— sign Roki Sasaki (yes, I know he’s destined to wear blue)
Japan Angels vs Japan Dodgers
This would be awesome and certainly would not hurt any rebuilding efforts.
I’m in.
I would much rather have Bregman than Arenado. Nolan can’t hit any more. last year, he was the batting equivalent of our Nolan.
None of the above. Both too expensive and Arenado is fading.
I don’t think so, Chapman set the market at 25M per.
Well too expensive for cheap and stoopid Arte.
BTW soon to be 31 year old Bregman declined his Qualifying offer so we have that extra baggage attached him too if we were to sign him.
That is true. That’s why we need to make a trade like the Astros did.
Dude. How many FAs can you say we should go out and get and still say we should rebuild? Rebuild…. with 32 year old 30M dollar players?
They just want pretty things even if they are not pretty things.
The fact is they aren’t seriously rebuilding or getting significantly better. They have long term solutions at SS and C and they have Mike Trout, and that’s it. If they’re not going all in to rebuild, Id rather see them get better. At this point, all they’re doing is the same thing they did before last year. I have no desire to watch that.
And actually, The only FAs I have suggested pursuing were for 1B, 3B, and a power hitting corner OF for which there are realistically no long term solutions.
Bregman will get a deal near what Arte paid for Rendon. It’s just not reality to think-hope-dream that Arte will spend that type of money. Ever.
With Fried getting $218M, to think we have an opportunity to sign Burnes is also just ridiculous.
The immediate future for the Halos is to sign fringy players that might produce a positive WAR.
I would not pay any more than the 25M that Chapman got because Chapman was a 5 win player last year and out performed Bregman. Anyone giving Bregman 40M a year is just plain stupid.
That is a waste of money and time. Either play all kids or sign real players.
Also, why would anyone want to pay to see fringy players that might produce positive WAR. We’ve seen enough of those for a lifetime already.
IDK, ask Perry and Arte that question. They’ve been signing that type of player for years now….and fans keep spending money.
Stassi, Duffy, Ford, Gosselin, Mayfield, Stafanic, Wade, Tucker, Barria, Bradley, Diaz, Herget, Junk, Elvis, Villar, Thomas, Sierra, Loup, Mayer, Ortega, Q, Rosenberg, Thor, Harrison, Duggar, Gio, Okey, Cron, Lamb, Padlo, Phillips, Renfroe, Lopez, etc.
Exactly, with amazing results. Thanks for the list. I have not been spending my money though. I have been participating in season tickets since I was a kid in the 60s, but not anytime in the last 15 years. The last game I attended was in the ALCS in 2009 against the Yankees.
If they are gonna build anything it is assumed there will be some rosters no one wants to watch. You kinda have to have one or the other…. or just be the Angels the last ten years….
That is a true statement my friend.
Maybe the same AAV or maybe the same length but no way he’ll get both. Even the Skanks aren’t that stoopid.
So I guess the Bangers are definitely moving on from Alex Bregman
IDK they just saved $16 Million and a bunch of money on their car insurance. so maybe they can try to re-sign him now.
They stayed in a Holiday Inn with their mistress last night.