LA Angels Wednesday News Crash: Biblical

https://x.com/JackJanes_/status/1895558966341746797

14 days ago

How much you wana bet we sign one of those Lance Lynn types as trade bait if Detmers/Silent C/Dana all look ungood these next few days? They all take ten MiLB starts and we get a pudgy yet warm MLB arm in place….

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Twebur

14 days ago

I hope Neto is ok with this.

Although he said “Super Brothers” instead of “Step Brothers,” everyone knew what Travis d’Arnaud meant when he said “Did we just become best friends?” when describing his relationship with Logan O’Hoppe.

Super Member

RexFregosi

14 days ago

two prospect discussions dropped today

MLB Top 30 Pipeline – Mayo

BA discussion Cooper, with TBW (sub req’d)

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Twebur

14 days ago

Reply to RexFregosi

And who is in charge of the music in the clubhouse
https://x.com/JackJanes_/status/1897007462227841445

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FungoAle

14 days ago

Reply to RexFregosi

KKKavadas ranked No. 30 on Pipeline, I’m glad someone can see the truth

Legend

14 days ago

Reply to FungoAle

I didn’t realize Kavadas was supposed to be the beacon of hope around here…..

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FungoAle

14 days ago

Reply to gitchogritchoffmypettis

His bunyanesque power display against AFL little leaguers has some folks (Perry for one) thinking he should make the team.

Trusted Member

14 days ago

Reply to FungoAle

A power lefty making league minimum who shows an knack for getting on base is a bad thing to have the bench?

Even if you want to focus on the strike out rate, it’s an issue where one of the contributing factors has been identified and he was sent to the AFL to work on. Which he seemed to do successfully.

Legend

14 days ago

Reply to SchofieldsWalkoff

What? You don’t see how stupid this is?

We CAN’T develop players = We SHOULDN’T develop players = It is stupid to encourage development and highlight improvement because it means you think said loser player is now Bryce Harper.

If you don’t follow these rules you are being fooled again and aren’t part of the resistance.

Legend

FungoAle

14 days ago

Reply to SchofieldsWalkoff

He’s positionless, offers little elsewhere. With a sagging team defense and limited team speed, do we need a player like this?

Super Member

Pineapple12

14 days ago

Reply to FungoAle

More interested in Noda than Kavadas

Legend

14 days ago

Reply to Pineapple12

Me too. But I’d rather have both in the system and wouldn’t mind both at SLC for now…. unless one of them just rakes for the next couple weeks.

Legend

14 days ago

Reply to FungoAle

When did Perry say he should make the team? Does he not actually have power? Has anyone been saying that just having Jabari Blash level power is a reason to add him to the 25 man? Source?

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FungoAle

14 days ago

Reply to gitchogritchoffmypettis

Perry has professed a priority of adding power bats, guys that can change the game with one swing. Kavadas is their only power bat from the left side. Perry did put him on the team last year, right? He’ll make the team.

Legend

14 days ago

Reply to FungoAle

So, he didn’t ever say Kavadas was making the team out of ST. Maybe he will. But he hasn’t at all. But at least you’ve got a jump on being butt hurt about it AND keeping everyone else real. Thank the gods.

Super Member

matthiasstephan

14 days ago

Hard to think Gibson and Lynn can’t find a job if they want one. Everyone has a full rotation? Or is it a price issue (they think they are worth more than the market suggests)? I mean no one should pay Gibson 19M or Lynn 13M, but for less money they had positive WAR, ate innings, and had decent ERAs (if any of that means much). But over 35 is tough.

Super Member

14 days ago

Dana doesn’t look like he’s ready for the majors to me. I just don’t see anything special with this kid. I hope I’m wrong.

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Fansince1971

14 days ago

Reply to YOUknowulovetheIE

He’s got talent and ability but so do most prospects at this level. He needs development and polishing to get to the next level and then the level above that which is an Organizational issue/responsibility. I’ve seen little evidence that the Angels Org can successfully develop young talented pitchers and turn them into reliable, consistent starters – much less Allstar level hurlers. That is a weakness that I hope changes for the better.

Super Member

14 days ago

Reply to Fansince1971

His accuracy seems more mental than physical imo. I hope he can he can figure it out.

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Cowboy26

14 days ago

Reply to Fansince1971

Like silent C and Jose Soriano ?

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Fansince1971

14 days ago

Reply to Cowboy26

Neither of whom have developed consistency and reliability. Hopefully they are works in progress.

Trusted Member

14 days ago

Reply to Fansince1971

They’ve had combined less than 250 innings over 1 year as starters in the majors while putting up avg to above avg ERA+. When did they have the opportunity to develop into consistent & reliable starters you say they aren’t?

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Fansince1971

14 days ago

Reply to SchofieldsWalkoff

You are making my point. If either or both of these two end up developing consistency and reliability, they will be the first to qualify in that regard developed by the Angels system in quite a while.

Trusted Member

14 days ago

Reply to Fansince1971

My bad. I read it like you thought these kids were finished products.

Legend

14 days ago

Reply to SchofieldsWalkoff

You are supposed to read…

These two kids were above average last year
It was not longer than 250 combined innings
An Angels fan is talking
This org sucks
AGREE! Or you kiss Arte.

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Cowboy26

14 days ago

Reply to Fansince1971

Huh?

So they have to turn into established All stars before your proclamations of complete system incompetence can be questioned?

Thats some screwed recency biased logic.

Using this logic, your constant clamoring for a rebuild is all wasted hot air since under this regime the angels are incapable of developing any player. So why even post anything until Arte sells his beloved franchise to a new ownership group you approve of?

Last edited 14 days ago by Cowboy26

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Fansince1971

14 days ago

Reply to Cowboy26

I rarely respond to your proclamations – but do you really believe this Org develops players well? Adequately? At all?

Youngsters like Neto and O’Hoppe were developed elsewhere.

Soriano is really the only pitcher that has come through the system that has a chance to be good. But for now he is major league average which is still something and at least home grown.

I am just interested in your overall perspective on this issue. Do you believe the Angels Org of the last decade (say back to 2014) develops players well. Do you think established players improve here or even play to their prior levels of success? If so, please give some examples.

Be well.

Last edited 14 days ago by Fansince1971

Legend

14 days ago

Reply to Fansince1971

The issue at hand is that the org, now free of the gleaming pile of Trout, Pujols and Ohtani, is functioning differently. I think that’s why Stupid Pus got more years, etc.

Thus far it looks like the last two off seasons were pretty free of splash. The last gasp of “looking like a competitor” was the pile of crap trades to contend in Ohtani’s last year and then trading it all away to get under the cap (which, it turns out, mattered).

I’d actually say that, given the stage of progress they should be in given Covid and injuries etc etc, Silseth, Dana, Silent C, Soriano are in a good enough spot. All improved over two years ago. Klassen, Aldegeri, etc are good additions. Crouse, Zeferjahn, Joyce, Burke etc are all developments or pick ups who are benefiting from the org thus far.

It’s not gonna get mistaken for the Brewers. But it’s also a lot better than the 2019 system’s pitcher outlook.

It’s becoming more and more clear that The Pus has gotten Big Evil to swerve more towards having a functional farm.

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Fansince1971

14 days ago

Reply to gitchogritchoffmypettis

Yes. I appreciate the difference and the apparent focus on improving the Farm with young talented players. As we know though, a great farm system is as much about the system/development as the players. I agree that the talent pool is greatly improving. The jury is out for me whether the Organization can develop these talented players that have been drafted and acquired via trade. Time will tell.

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Cowboy26

14 days ago

Reply to Fansince1971

Since you’re the one with the constant generalizations and declarations regarding this franchise, I think I’ll rather wait for you to actually put a modicum of effort into some research to support your claims before I would feel compelled to “give some examples”.

Generally speaking, I think it would be foolhardy to lump the last decade into one definitive statement or analysis of the Angels acquisition & player development system . You have 3 different baseball regimes ( GM’s Dipoto, Eppler & Minasian) with 3 different noticeable philosophies in scouting drafting & player development. (Yes I recognize it was the same owner over this same time frame) I could go over my observations of each regimes philosophies in great detail but I’m too G.A. to waste valuable time on that exercise.

What I have noticed is there seems to be a recent renewed interest in player development by the team even compared to the early 2021 Minasian dynasty where Perry tried to follow status quo before implementing any changes. There was more of a sense of urgency that impacted drafting and player development when the Angels were trying to win one for the Unicorn. but new focuses on larger bonus international market signees like Joswa Lugo and the drafting of high schoolers like Dylan Jordan and Trey Gregory Alford indicate to me the Angels are going to invest alot more in order to develop players despite Perry’s tenuous job status. On the P & D infrastructure front, The hitting & pitching lab facilities that just opened in Tempe where injured & developmental players will go for instruction year around is a prime example of these changes. There has also been reports that Angels have been adding additional coaches and paying their coaches more in recent years both at the major league and minor league level.

As I’m sure you are aware, ’71 that when you commit to developing players you aint crapping out MLB Allstars after a couple of months. High school players typically take 4 to 6 years and International free agents take can take longer to reach the show. Jose Soriano was signed by the Angels exactly 9 years ago yesterday while Jack Kochanowicz was drafted 5-1/2 years ago in the 3rd round of the 2019 draft.

So despite your constant jabberings about evil Arte. How we should boycott until he finally sells or croaks, (Not sure if that boycott alsoincludes Angel advertisers) any resurgence or renaissance of this team spurred by its acquisition by the worlds greatest owner will take time and will look alot like what we are seeing everyday in Spring training and in the minor leagues this season.

Super Member

14 days ago

Reply to Cowboy26

Both have proven they can pitch in the majors, Dana hasn’t yet.

Last edited 14 days ago by YOUknowulovetheIE

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Fansince1971

14 days ago

Reply to YOUknowulovetheIE

I mean – yeah – both those guys are approximately league average (around 1.20-1.30 WHIP) . They show moments of brilliance and other moments not so much. So these guys are two league average pitchers with Soriano obviously having incredible stuff but he has not put it all together yet.

It’s the lack of consistency I am talking about. That could come from being relatively young and inexperienced. But I do think it is an Organizational failing that the young pitching talent does not develop beyond what is basically league average MLB pitchers.

We will see with Soriano. He could definitely be AllStar level with his stuff. If he doesn’t get there, that may be further evidence of the Org failings.

Last edited 14 days ago by Fansince1971

Legend

14 days ago

Reply to Fansince1971

Sooooo…. which MLB starting staffs have a WHIP under 1.25? I’m trying to get a sense of which orgs do not have this flaw.

Cause last I looked Soriano was just a tick more shitty than Corbin Burnes last year.

Silent C…. not sure why we’re talking about him so much. He needs to do what he did last year for a whole season before I’ll think I know anything about him….

Super Member

Pineapple12

14 days ago

Reply to YOUknowulovetheIE

Similar repertoire to Detmers. 92-95 mph straight 4-seamer, plus slider, loopy curve, serviceable change-up.

Without overpowering velocity both pitchers need to rely on location. When they can’t control the zone, they’ll struggle. Velo matters, which is why I’m higher longterm on Soriano and Silent C.

Trusted Member

14 days ago

Reply to Pineapple12

I agree with most of what you’re saying but I would say it’s velocity + movement. Joyce’s FB is very hittable once a hitter dials in the speed.

Last edited 14 days ago by SchofieldsWalkoff

Super Member

Pineapple12

14 days ago

Reply to SchofieldsWalkoff

Good clarification on adding movement, I agree. Even Silseth is more effective when he goes heavier with his sinker over fastball. Detmers and Dana need to develop a 2-seam, cutter, sinker, something

Trusted Member

Biggiswrth

14 days ago

Reply to Pineapple12

You can tell Detmers is. Trying to set up a 2-seam that starts on the hands of a RH hitter and tails back over the plate. We watched it in his bullpen. It’s still not there but he’s trying somethings which is good. He has the best stuff and has shown he belongs in the show. I expect some good things from him this year and if he is ready, it would allow us to trade TA faster in the season and go with the boys and Kikuchi

Member

milehigh

14 days ago

Reply to SchofieldsWalkoff

+1 for movement.
This article interested me, may not interest anyone else. The part about radar guns was the most interesting to me. Yet another thing I didn’t know.
https://www.baseballamerica.com/stories/did-greg-maddux-ever-throw-hard/

Trusted Member

14 days ago

Reply to milehigh

If you haven’t haven’t seen it yet, mlbtv has an entertaining documentary on Maddox you should check out.

Legend

14 days ago

Reply to SchofieldsWalkoff

That doc is awesome. I love Greg Maddox.

Trusted Member

14 days ago

Reply to gitchogritchoffmypettis

Him talking about setting up Bagwell for an in playoffs was amazing.

Super Member

14 days ago

Reply to Pineapple12

Yeah, not very overwhelming stuff for now. I think Soriano has the stuff to be an ace and silent c a strong #2 behind him.

Legend

14 days ago

Reply to Pineapple12

Well, I think two things are happening. First, we have guys like Hendricks and Jansen on the team for reasons other than just pitching innings. Kickuci falls into this area too. Older guys who have “a plan” when they pitch and aren’t just heat+curvy pitch.

Second. It wouldn’t hurt if ANY pitcher learns Jansen’s cutter. And maybe a couple will. But Dana and Detmers both hit 96-97 MPH and, as was mentioned with Joyce, hitting 104 with a strait fastball isn’t gonna save you from MLB hitters.

We talk about a pitcher needing to rely on “location” as a sign of weakness a lot when the reality is Rob Dibble isn’t in the Hall of Fame because ALL pitchers need to rely on location and movement. We’ve seen it with Detmers. Solid change up, plus rising fastball, plus a pretty wipe out slider CAN = 2k/IP. Dana is built very similar, rising fastball, good slider etc. It’s also how Skubal pitches.

They just have to get these guys to really command their pitch mix and location in the strike zone and that takes innings. Neither needs an extra couple MPH or a new pitch to do this. All it takes is semi-flawless execution. Simple.

But between DamnRight and the veterans that have been brought in at pitcher and catcher I think they are trying to address this with Silseth, Detmers and eventually Dana and some younger guys.

Super Member

Pineapple12

14 days ago

Reply to gitchogritchoffmypettis

Skubal’s average FB (96.8) is 3 mph faster than Detmers+Dana, and he holds it thruout an entire start.

It’s fun and all to say, “go out and master pitch mix and control. Easy.” Having a dominant FB helps a pitcher’s margin of error. There’s a reason why the majority of elite SPs today have a dominant FB.

I’m a big believer in Detmers and Dana, but I’m coming around to the idea that their ceilings are closer to a #3 than a #1-2.

Last edited 14 days ago by Pineapple12

Legend

14 days ago

Reply to Pineapple12

I was kidding about it being simple. It’s really hard to dial in a pitcher like that. But an extra 2 MPH isn’t gonna save Dana or Detmers if it doesn’t happen. The “fast fastball covers up for mistake pitches” is pretty overblown. Sure, a couple times every 50 innings or so. But all you need to do is look at all the guys with 98 MPH heat who we have seen suck with our uniform on to know it doesn’t cover all that many other mistakes often enough.

For what it’s worth, Dana is still getting bigger and will likely get to that extra 2 MPH…. hopefully at AA/AAA. Detmers also has the extra MPH when he needs it, hits high 90s, but they have said they are trying to get him away from selling out for velo.

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FungoAle

14 days ago

Reply to Pineapple12

On the heels of others struggles, look for Jose Suarez to seize the opportunity for the 5th spot

Legend

14 days ago

Reply to FungoAle

Gold.

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Cowboy26

14 days ago

Reply to FungoAle

Like a turd that won’t flush

Super Member

RexFregosi

14 days ago

Reply to YOUknowulovetheIE

He’s 21 with a good year at (AA) under his belt. No need to have him starting in MLB right now.

Super Member

14 days ago

Reply to RexFregosi

His stuff just looks very easy to make hard contact with. He’s only 21 so the hope is there.

Legend

14 days ago

Reply to YOUknowulovetheIE

That’s the problem, ALL stuff is easy to make hard contact with. If it doesn’t happen today it will happen after there’s about 15 innings of video of you pitching.

All these young guys are about one mental/skill jump from being good…. as are about 300 other pitchers. So we’ll have to see.

Super Member

14 days ago

Reply to gitchogritchoffmypettis

I have no problem with waiting on them. Who knows, one could be a late bloomer and pitch like a matt shoemaker for a few seasons.

Legend

14 days ago

Reply to YOUknowulovetheIE

It is indeed sad that at age 21 Caden Dana is a busted prospect that we just hope can be Shoemaker some day.

Legend

14 days ago

Reply to RexFregosi

Yeah. I said it after his beat down yesterday. I think the whole point of having him throw innings early in spring is to get him a lot of tape Vs AAAA and MLB hitters so that he can really see the differences between AA and MLB approaches and do meaningful work in the MiLB early this season.

I don’t think they’re rushing him up to the MLB rotation unless it’s to cover for an injury. If they’re smart they’ll group Dana, Klassen and Aldegeri together in Bama and let them feed and push off each other.

Trusted Member

Biggiswrth

14 days ago

Reply to gitchogritchoffmypettis

The Guardians just have our number in Goodyear. They’ve smoked us twice there now

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https://x.com/BeyondTheHalo/status/1897057104290308199

14 days ago

Reply to Biggiswrth

They are also, you know, a good team, and we aren’t. From the farm hands they have in camp to the MLB guys they are better over all.

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Cowboy26

14 days ago

Reply to YOUknowulovetheIE

The wildness is one thing but hes getting hit hard not just because hes been behind in the counts.There was discussion last year after Dana got rocked in MLB start no. 2 that Dana was tipping his pitches which maybe more about the batters picking up his release points for his various offerings than anything else he is doing. This is something the Angels staff will need to work on in the Minors as it will probably take a little bit of an overhaul of his mechanics to fix.

Legend