Good morning Angels fans, staying dry? Have some links by the fire.
Angels News
The World Baseball Classic will have a lot of familiar names, with even more to those who know the farm system as MiLB players will be allowed to compete as well.
Benji Gil, former Angel, will be managing Team Mexico this year for the WBC.
Around Baseball
Rich Hill, someone linked to the Angels, signed with the Pirates instead. Must be not wanting to go 6 man I guess?
Another name linked with the Angels won’t be joining them as Nathan Eovaldi is going to Texas instead. Well, he would have cost a draft pick anyway, so…
Braves extend Sean Murphy for 6/73M. Braves love to extend players.
Carlos Correa is still not officially a Met. Things are getting weird, maybe his legs don’t actually exist?
Yet another player is heading to Japan. It is nice that Japan is opening again and stopped having it be closed.
Korea gets someone as well. I mean, if it is the only place that would take you, why not?
Cuba defectors can now play for Cuba in the WBC. I have no idea why anyone would, but yay?
Anything I missed? Post below for upvotes!
Missing out on Kluber and Eovaldi is definitely gonna be the difference between making the playoffs and not 😂. /s
Soooo, you’re saying we got a chance?
Segura to the Marlins.
Driving past the Big A at this very moment on 57…
Don’t worry, my wife is driving
I’m fine not wasting a draft pick on Eovaldi.
Kluber seems like a deal that could’ve been matched.
The thing with the 6th starter is that he’ll be a regular starter once a regular gets hurt.
And I also wouldn’t be surprised if Ohtani needs more rest and a typical 6 man rotation reappears at some time. Particularly around the all star break.
The problem with a 6th starter is everyone you approach about the job has to be told “You’ll be a fifth starter as soon as someone gets hurt.”
I don’t think a lot of guys with options are taking that, and any pitcher who is getting performance bonuses tacked onto his contract has options.
Of course Suarez can bump down to #6. The point is though that a lot of these guys looking to maximize value and maybe bounce back don’t want to travel coach, even if it’s as the 5th starter. So we will likely get someone who had a down platform year or lost huge time to injury lately and wants to show that they can, indeed, throw about 100-120 effective innings.
There’s not all that much difference between that and just seeing if we can teach Davidson not to serve up as many HR or if Silseth man handling AA was for real. I’d still like to get someone, but they’d be pure living player depth, nothing that wows me at the time of signing. Like literally seeing if Chris Archer or Danny Duffy or Mike Minor wants to give baseball a last shot. Maybe Michael Pineda.
Actually, here’s a question…. we are talking about 15-20 starts here. How many MiLB arms do you think we have that, by the time September rolls around, the team may actually kind of like to have been able to throw 3-5 starts to this year? Start the year with Canning at 6th and if he blows it over the first few weeks Bush/Silseth/Erla/Danial etc are warmed up, next up Marceux (the Mime), Bachman, eventually various A+ guys like Olthof who work their way up by August…. we may be standing pat at #6.
This is exactly where I expect us to end up. We are investing a lot in our MiLB pitchers. Someone has got to be able to contribute, right?
Apparently Canning and Rodriguez are healthy. Then there’s Silseth. And Barria.
I’d like a healthy Rodriguez to get some bullpen time and take the occasional start like a true swing man.
I’d also love to win the lottery.
Lucky numbers 48-17-6-27-20
What does Torii Hunter, Shohei Ohtani, Anthony Rendon, Mike Trout and Jared Walsh/Don Sutton/Gary Pettis have to do with lottery numbers?
Some are lauding Arte and his platypus for committing to record spending with the Angels 2023 payroll. But in reality, B.F.D. Damn near half of the league is doing this in preparation of the upcoming season.
Currently we are projected to be 10th in league in payroll based upon CBT calculations. And there are a handful of teams right behind us that are not done yet so that ranking may slip even more.Here’s the latest numbers according to Roster Resource (with teams already over the cap in bold:
Many of these teams will only increase their payroll as we should be as we have glaring needs for a Shortstop, a 6th starter, a backup centerfielder and some back end bullpen help.
Come On Arte. Time for another senior moment. but this time just imagine that its back in 2003 when winning was still more important to you than counting your money
Yah. I think a payroll above 200M is getting to be fairly normal at this point. It’s 300M that you’ve got to hit if you really want to show a commitment to greatness before the Astros kick your ass with a payroll 2/3 the size.
Also what’s this about needing a SS, 6th starter and CF? Why hasn’t anyone said anything!?!
😂 😂 😂
Who do you think gets more wins out of their $220M, us or the Rangers?
That’s actually gonna be a kind of fun contest coming up here…..
And that’s why they play the games…and why we cheer them on!
Good question. its almost eerie that our 2 teams have CBT payroll amounts within 200K of each other.
Both teams success are severely injury dependent but the Angels have acquired more depth this offseason.
I’l\m still clue less how the bullpen will do for us for I’d take our everyday lineup over theres all things being equal. And with Ohtani and the Leroys vs their pitching staff medical bills, advantage Halos. ( Not that I’m biased)
I’m thrilled our benchmark is now the Texas Rangers and not Houston, either of the NY teams, San Diego, Philly, etc.
I’m totally OK with our benchmark being the Astros payroll management habits.
As we all wait with baited breath to see the true identity of NewOwnerz The Unicorn, the They that will save us all from the cold evil clutches of Arte Moreno, two teams really interest me as far as how they are doing things.
The Padres. Can you buy success and long term fan engagement (and thus profits) if you aren’t the DoYanks? Sure, there are teams with huge income streams and wide fanbases that have just absorbed bad contract years like a blob. The Red Sox with Crawford and Sale, the Yankees with everyone from Carl Pavano to Jacoby Elsbury to AJ Burnett, duh Doyers with Price, Kemp, Crawford, Kimbrel etc.
The Mets and Phillies market sizes and sheer number of people who will follow them if they are good make their huge splurges more likely to work similar to the YankSox. Surprising side note, on the sites I’ve looked at regarding actual fanbase size I was really surprised to see how highly ranked the Rangers are… far more than the Astros. So maybe more a baseball town than I thought? Point being, they may be able to also generate enough fan money to make spraying money all over the place worth it.
The Padres, on the other hand, have the Angels and the Doyers close by and are playing in a heavily transplant city. To get a sense of what I’m talking about, we can all probably picture a guy in an office in California being a Sawkx fan. We can also picture a random kid in Salt Lake City just deciding he’s a Yankees or Cubs fan. Padres? Not so much.
It will be interesting to see what happens with the Padres because we are far more similar to them than we are the Phillies or Rangers. We aren’t in LA, not really. We aren’t a massive exclusive market like Philly or DFW/North Texas/OKC. We are in a better spot than the Padres though. We are indeed, market wise, the Clippers/Chargers, but it could be a lot worse, and if the Padres method actually works for longer than 5 years I’d be encouraged to think that NewOwnerz can do it better here.
The Braves. They need a mural on their wall in their FO of BJ Upton that says “NEVER ANOTHER FA SIGNING!”. Holy crap are these guys into developing players and then paying them OR letting other teams develop them and paying them. What they seem to be planning to never do again is bet on a players uptick seasons when they can just bet on their own guys short term success instead. The other thing they are obviously avoiding is paying players past age 35 but being willing to pay them modest fortunes while they are “prime”.
The Braves have the 5th (I think?) highest payroll right now but they have already won one recent title and are spending to capitalize on that. They also are pretty much the epitome of “regional dominance”. There are literally people from Birmingham to Jacksonville to Charlotte to Nashville rooting for the Braves in addition to all the people in the Atlanta area…. which dwarfs the OC/IE. They and the Cardinals (and Royals) kind of have these exclusive regional boats. Their actual team value (and probably profit generation) are actually similar to the Angels though.
Again. If their plan of spend on farm + extend that spending to young mlb talent + trading farm assets for semi-young mlb talent and extending them to build a team with few holes and a long contention window works while NEVER paying a 37 year old 30M to DH works it is a plan I think our franchise could execute very well. And, shock of shocks, we have a GM from the Braves org. He’s no POBO, and not really a baseball person, but he’s a start.
By the way, good example of a team that’s kind of botching this method is the Blue Jays.
Both of these teams are not adrift. They have a plan. I think NewOwnerz the Unicorn could use the added muscle of being at least linked to Los Angeles (I don’t buy the idea that hundreds of thousands of Doyer fans will suddenly become Anaheim Angels fans but there are plenty of unaffiliated people who could get into them) to use either of these teams methods to succeed and do it better because, while our potential resources are limited compared to some teams, I think we can flex more than the Padres or the Braves long term if we do it right. The Astros are actually a really good comp for us as far as a similar fanbase size doing it right.
Whose plan do you think would work best long term? I don’t just mean being able to pull off winning for a few years, I mean winning for a decade or more while transitioning between a couple waves of talent on the roster. Which method do you think gets us a happy ten years?
And no. You can’t “just do both”. If you’re smart you can actually look at these two teams and see why.
I think the answer is pretty obviously to shoot for the Braves model. However, most organizations seem incapable of having that kind of patience or quite possibly don’t have the people in scouting and MiLB player development to rise above mediocrity. Hiring talent in these areas must be a real challenge given we only seem to talk about a few organizations that keep doing it successfully.
I like the Braves method, but I’ll take what ever works. The Padres aren’t total idiots here. Their fans are really really excited. They are in the WS hunt. Petco was the place to be this summer. They have a crap ton of players I’d love to be stuck watching. If all those positives generate a bunch of money and it’s sustainable instead of having to crash into a ten year rebuild then there’s nothing wrong with doing it the Padres way.
If they don’t have to gasp out and cut payroll in the next few years, with their revenue stream, then it can be done by other teams, and we’d be pretty well suited for it.
Pads waited to have a great farm with real talent to go all-in.
That said I prefer the Braves model.
I thought I read here that the Angels were using the 5 man rotation this season.
According to Fletch at the OC Register, the plan is to have Ohtani every 6th day regardless of off days. In order for that to happen you will need a 6th man for about 15 to 20 starts
5 2/3rd man rotation
So just a quick thought for the CTPG folks who have compared Ohtani to the Babe to support their argument that you ‘never trade’ him.
There is a huge difference. Free agency did not exist in Ruth’s era. Had the Red Sox not traded Ruth to fund a musical, he would have been on the Red Sox for his entire career with Ruth having no say in that.
If the Angels had control over Ohtani for his entire career, I would fully agree that there is no way you trade him. But that is not the way in modern baseball. Ohtani gets to choose who he plays for and it is doubtful that he will continue with the Angels, given the fact that he wants more than anything to pursue a championship. Under such circumstances, you have to get something for him before he leaves on his own for nothing.
The lack of team control is what differentiates Ohtani from Ruth. The decision is not similar at all and the ‘you never trade Ruth’ thought process should have no bearing whatsoever.
I agree that this is a factor.
Though, just cause you’re the 100,000th person to say this about one player or another, I would like to mention that if winning a champiham sandwich is the only reason Ohtani or any other players heart beats then they should go ahead and sign with the Astros, or Rays, or Braves, or Cardinals. Actually, if you REALLY want multiple shots at winning big go sign with Cleveland. Pitching wins chips. And if a couple of these men who are incredibly desperate to win rings signed with a pitching/farm development team like Cleveland and teamed with JoRam against the likes of the Tigers, Royals, White Sox and Twins every season…. how many divisions do you win? How many shots at a ring? Sure, you’ll only get 1/2 the money you would from the Doyers, but a championshit is what will really relive that fire inside you right?
Middle Amrica is calling. Go get em Mr. Championship’s all I want guy.
Yeah I think the whole “Ohtani values winning over anything else” is complete bs. Here’s what I think Ohtani values based on no sources but just my good Lylelin eyes
1) Money
2) Proximity to Japan
3) Commitment to be able to pitch and hit
4) Winning
Yes Ohtani is a fierce competitor and wants to win. But that’s not gonna be a main factor in him signing with a team. Now I do think that’s sets the Dodgers in a perfect position to sign him and they know it which is why they didn’t do crap this offseason to get under the luxury tax.
The Angels still have a good chance at resigning Ohtani though. They have to hope in spring training towards the end, they talk with Ohtani and his agents and offer him a contract they can’t refuse, which I believe Arte will do based on him thinking it will raise the value of the franchise when in reality it won’t. But if the Angels do not resign him in spring training and he does test free agency, then I think Ohtani will go elsewhere.
I agre, but I would put “3) pitch and hit” at top of the list. Much easier with the Ohtani rule, but still I believe his most important “ask”
You forgot his Mother!
And his Rock Star BFF Ippei
That’s true. What if his mom loves Milwaukee? Does he sign there for 10M a year because he’s Japanese?
Again- are you down for contractual commitments of over $1B to 3 players? I think this does more long term harm than good.
But if you’re a real man Angels fan you friggin love harm. You eat harm for breakfast and ask for more at lunch. You name your fkn dog Harm.
No I’m not down, but what I think doesn’t really matter considering it has zero influence on what happens. Do I think Arte/New owners are gonna try to resign Ohtani at all costs? Yes I do think they are. The smart thing to do was trade Ohtani at the deadline. The organization (Arte) botched it and now they are screwed. At this point the best possible scenario would be to attempt to resign him. Even trading him this offseason won’t fetch much. Look at the return for the Betts trade.
Kluber – one year contract to the Red Sox
I guess The Angels are rolling with what they have.
78-82 wins is my early prediction. Put it in the books.
Maybe but I’m not sure Kluber as our #6 starter was exactly going to move the needle all that much more than some combo of Silseth/Canning/Rodriguez
Need a SS more than a kluber.
Even with Kluber, I didn’t think this team was anything more than .500 team w the Division they are in.
The optimistic side of me would say maybe 85 or 86 wins. But that optimistic side has been trounced so mightily over the last seven years that I’m just gonna go with .500 or just below.
So yet another failed season?
I don’t know if it’s failure. I think it’s just reality. It’s hard to win 90 games, much more so in a difficult division. You have to have young players in your farm who help you get there. So if the result of all of this is that the Angels can pick up some young talent who will help them in the future, I don’t see it as a failure.
it’s the reality that proceeded the failure.
If they don’t make the playoffs again, especially with the expanded format, the season will be a failure. It’s inexcusable not to make the playoffs with arguably the two best players in the game.
It’s pretty excusable because, if 15 players on your team get hurt or underperform because of HaloFanMagic, those two best players in baseball mean nothing. And yet, the team still exists and keeps playing games.
That’s extreme excusableness.
That’s been my default ceiling prediction last few years. Maybe up to 84-85 if feeling particularly generous. In fairness, I think the Rangers are paying a whole lot of cash for pretty much the same.
Both the Rangers and the Angels are in a similar position. It really depends on health. That is such an uncertainty, it is tough to predict. Whichever of those two teams stays healthier will likely win closer to 85 than 75.
We’ll win with what we’ve got while wishing we weren’t wronged by the wicked worm Arte.
Whoa!
Welp thats disappointing then . 3 days ago I listed 19 potential bullpen arms to fill the projected 2 vacant bullpen spots.
The candidates for the 6th starter spot is much more limited. Considering that we will be utilizing a 6th starter at least 15 to 20 times this upcoming season, this is still a very important roll.
Right now the starting nod goes to Tucker Davidson (Other than he’s out of options I have no clue why he’s in the lead) But additional options are looking pretty few and far between:
40 Man:
Davis Daniel ( Probably the most intriguing)
Chase Silseth (trashed in the big leagues after impressive debut)
Jaime Barria (The Angels like him in the pen)
Griffin Canning (if he doesn’t fall apart)
Chris Rodriguez (I doubt the Angels think he can hold up as a starter)
Minor Leaguers & NRI’s
Ky Bush ( Top starting pitcher right now in the organization)
Jhonathan Diaz ( The Mr T starter kit is back)
Cesar Valdez( isn’t he like 40?)
Coleman Crow ( I thought his movies were boring)
Sam Bachman ( Not without a miracle)
Perry & Arte don’t have a Klueber.
You might get 4 starts out of Canning before he goes back on the injured list.
Any interest in….
At least we would be finally getting back the draft pick we lost for signing Grandpa over 11 years ago.
I heart this. Also, Wacha would be fine.
forgot about wacha. id like this or turk’s (i think) suggestion of greinke.
theres life after kluber, we just have to open the shades and let the sun in.
And no-one is going to ensure quality clubhouse hygiene like the Grienke. Cuz you know Perry is always talking about how important locker room chemistry is.
http://www.thepostgame.com/blog/healthy-living/201506/dodgers-pitcher-teammates-wash-your-hands-after-using-bathroom
Wait… CtPG gave up draft picks for GPB?
Or was that draft BEER picks?
Plenty of arms left of the same type skill set; old and declining.
That would have been a very nice, acceptable deal to round out the Angels’ rotation.
Hard not to predict that the issues with depth in the lineup last season will be incurred by the rotation this season.
Agreed. Every season for at least the last five I have said.”if they stay healthy”. I honestly meant it when I said it, like there was a chance that the team could have a season not plagued by injuries. Now I’m just going to wait and see. If something happens year after year after year, it takes magic thinking to believe it won’t happen again.
I’ll sure I will keep hope alive somewhere deep down. But outwardly I’m focusing on reality.
When are we all going to learn that when the Angels are truly interested in a player, it is not the subject of rumor.
Rumor is the fodder of agents trying to drive a market.
Good pass. He’s a 2x order/5 inning pitcher at this point in his career, I think the farm hands can match that production while providing more upside.
Um, yeah. If you are going to fit in here we’re gonna need you to never believe in the farm hands…. unless there is an older player blocking a meh farm hand who is scrappy and white. Then rage against how we never give the kids a chance. But even then, turn on said farm hand as soon as he’s played 30 innings.
H/T ESPN – B. Doolittle. “Ranking all 30 MLB teams now that the biggest Free Agents are off the board”
#15 Los Angeles Angels
Projected wins: 81
Playoff odds: 31%
Title odds: 1% (up 0.2%)
Aggression rank: 6
Improvement rank: 7
If the Angels are going to have a breakthrough season, a couple of things have to occur. First of all and most obvious, the stars on the top-heavy roster have to be on the field more often than not. Mostly, I’m talking about Mike Trout and Anthony Rendon. The position group seems deeper with complementary veterans Renfroe, Gio Urshela and Brandon Drury joining the group. The rotation needs health and probably another quality arm or two, but the real key is the bullpen. That’s the other thing that is a prerequisite for a breakthrough season: The Angels need to show they can staff and manage a contention-quality bullpen for the six-month slog of a season.
I agree with somewhere around .500 for the Angels if they stay healthy. The Division is super tough and has gotten tougher. I expect Houston, Seattle and Texas to all be above .500 teams. If Texas stays healthy they will be very good.
There is a lot of uncertainty but viewing the club as a .500 team as built is probably spot on.
Side note – Ohtani is unlikely to elect to stay if the team wins only 81 games. If the Angels are hovering around .500 at the AS break, I expect him to be traded.
But generational you just don’t.
Senator- there is a pay wall on that article. I’m just curious, where do Houston, Seattle and Texas rank in the top 30? Could you provide that please?
Astros – 6 – they’re great & Abreu makes them better.
Seattle – 13 – got power at expense of defense. Why is Kelenic on the team?
Texas – 17 – spending good but are they doing it right
So we are obviously doomed. Why even play the games at all? I’m gonna go root for the Dodgers! Who’s with me!?? Head over to their site, I’ll meet you guys over there soon as soon is.
Take Tootsie with you!
Totally. Tell him to meet us over there. I’m on my way. Just wait there.
Please describe a “contention-quality” bullpen. Include examples, if possible.
Mariano Rivera, Bruce Sutter, Lee Smith, Billy Wagner, Trevor Hoffman. Rollie Fingers and Willie Fraser. But only their good years.
You’d need to ask Mr. Doolittle of ESPN. Those were his words, not mine.
HOWEVER, using the 2002 regular season the following teams had the bullpens with the best stats:
Houston
LAD
NYY
Atlanta
Cleveland
Seattle
TB
Detroit
Baltimore
NYM
St Louis
Texas
Toronto
San Diego
Minnesota
Washington
Milwaukee
….and next drum roll please…..
LA Angels
Correa is relatively young and already has health concerns. Can you imagine in 5 years? 7 years? I cannot imagine offering him 10 years much less 12.
If folks just want to throw millions around indiscriminately, I am open for donations.
Is he worth the money – no. Is the contract term smart – absolutely not. Was he the Free Agent SS with the highest floor – yes.
The reality is that all these 10+ year contracts are going to end with a wimper….even Trout’s.
So good common sense has been thrown out the window and $300+ million goes to players with health concerns whose best attributes are a high floor? I just don’t get it.
Not if you’re the Braves.
Gil also was a coach with us last year (1b coach for awhile) and believe he’s sill with us as a coach.
glad we didn’t give money for old pitchers. save it for old Raisel or old Andrelton or old Elvis.
Fun fact – Correa is younger than Shohei.
After giving up a draft pick for Tyler Anderson I wasn’t too king on the idea of giving up another one for Eovaldi…seems like a good idea until you’re watching the draft happen and you get passed up.