LA Angels Weekend News Crash: Playoffs?!?!

I can’t help it. Jim Mora’s meltdown was an epic part of sports culture when I came of age and his expression should be the mantra of all Angels fans right now.

Playoffs?!?! Really? Yes, once again we are talking about the playoffs rather than participating in them.

The Angels now have the longest playoff drought in all of Major League Baseball despite employing the two greatest players of the era and possibly all time.

Yet another layer to Arte’s legacy of abject failure.

For those who want to say “Seattle only got in because they expanded the playoffs,” we had that chance to. They made it, we didn’t.

While we missed the playoffs, we witnessed the greatest individual season in baseball history. Trying to figure out which Ohtani insanity to post here was tough but this is my favorite:

Those are four of the biggest names in baseball and Ohtani outdid them at their best skill. In 2022 Ohtani became the first player to qualify for the leaderboards as both a pitcher and a hitter.

I’m going to save my venom for the MVP voters as that gets closer. For now, let’s just sit back and again enjoy Ohtani. The fact I was able to see this live with my son is something I cherish.

We had some fun at the end, though. And I can’t get enough of this Mike Trout bomb.

And while, yes, it proved to be the run that cost the Angels the game, it was fun seeing great guy Steven Vogt get a home run in his final at bat.

Plus that loss coupled with Cubs and D’backs wins pushed the Angels into the 10th spot for next year’s draft. It is a lottery next year so we could move up or back. We’re the Angels, though, so we know which way it will be.

Here’s your longform read for the weekend. It centers on Joe Maddon and the Angels but touches on the greater culture war between front offices and field managers.

It expands on the news that Joe Maddon claims the front office tried to get him to pull Mike Trout mid game.

I can’t confirm this, but I did hear Mirriam-Webster is putting an Angels logo next to the word “dysfunction” next year.

Back to the topic at hand. The MLB Playoffs kick off today. Here is the bracket and how to watch all the madness. I hope you all have a good cable or satellite package because they are spread out.

I know I’m missing a lot. Some of that is because there’s so much to unpack and it will be a long off season so I’m holding onto things until after the playoffs. But if you feel I’ve missed anything important or timely, please link below.

Enjoy your weekend. I’ll be with family. Four generations tuned into the playoffs. Well, as much as my preschooler can be tuned into anything ha ha.

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2002heaven
Super Member
1 year ago

The Anjels now have $90M tied up in just 3 players.
How’s that gonna work out in 2023? Easy if you ask YNH, because that’s where dumpster diving and rushing players up from the minors before theyre ready (BTW I believe this is probably a major reason why our prospects fall flat on their faces……ESPESHELLY THE PITCHERZ) comes in. That’s like shopping at “Whole Foods” and “Nordstrom’s” one week and at “Dollar Tree” the following week. WE NEED TO KEEP CLEANING YOO NOH HOO’S PARKING SPACE, MAYBE THAT WILL FIX EVERYTHING. Not impressed with Tucker Davidson either, but ALL 80%ers are welcome to have false blind faith if they choose to do so………I hope Perry resigns soon.

DowningDude
Legend
1 year ago

Cleveland broke my bracket

GrandpaBaseball
Legend
1 year ago

I was at one time very anti Jedi. As with time, all things measured after a time period I admit that I was wrong. I blamed him harshly for leaving in mid-season. I only knew that Sosh was the best manager in the history of the franchise and sided at the time with him. Now with 20-20 hindsight I see that he too was in an impossible Arte placed position. Why would anyone want the position of Angels GM?

So far, I like the new playoff format as it means to see the best teams excel and move on.

GrandpaBaseball
Legend
1 year ago

Cleveland won their best of three in two games with the scores of 2-1, and 1-0 in 15 innings. Both they and Tampa Bay have the pitching. Sorry to see that series go down in 2 games, would have liked to see a game 3.

GrandpaBaseball
Legend
1 year ago

What a game Seattle pulled off yesterday. On the road to boot. Just have to hand it to them for pulling that series off.

DowningDude
Legend
1 year ago

Funny but even at 8-1 I was thinking “man this thing ain’t over.” It was an amazing comeback to be sure.

Eric_in_Portland
Legend
1 year ago

This flap with Maddon and Minasian is very trAditional.

GrandpaBaseball
Legend
1 year ago

In recent History we have seen Jedi vs Sosh. Eppler having to let his handpicked manager, Brad Asmus go to bring in Arte’s choice. No matter who owns the Angels it seems that longevity as a manager is fleeting.

MarineLayer
Super Member
1 year ago

Watching all the tributes to Pujols reminds me once again, how did St.Louis extract so much more value from him at the very end than we were able to get. It says a lot about why they are successful (notwithstanding their playoff choke) and we are not.

Angelstan
Trusted Member
1 year ago
Reply to  MarineLayer

Please don’t go there. Coaching isn’t the reason. Pujols was over the hill and washed up two years ago. He just had a season where if he had 600 ABs, he would have hit 48 HRs. This wasn’t coaching.

GrandpaBaseball
Legend
1 year ago
Reply to  Angelstan

Better results through science.

MarineLayer
Super Member
1 year ago
Reply to  Angelstan

Who cares why. It just is, and that’s what’s annoying.

DowningDude
Legend
1 year ago
Reply to  MarineLayer

Not meaning to insinuate anything but is there truth to what I’ve heard … that due to CBA there was no surprise PED testing this season?

Angelstan
Trusted Member
1 year ago
Reply to  DowningDude

There was no testing at all before the season. Not sure about the rest.

MarineLayer
Super Member
1 year ago

The Athletic article reminds me, how’s that Bachman first round pick working out for you, Minasian? Care to non-comment on that one?

Angelstan
Trusted Member
1 year ago
Reply to  MarineLayer

I have hopes for Bachman but I’m concerned about his motion. Tre way he throws looks like injuries are going to be an issue. Let’s pray otherwise.

YOUknowulovetheIE
Trusted Member
1 year ago

Maddon would sit trout before off days along with other players. No idea why he would get so bent out of shape by being told to bring trout out during a blow out game.

jefeRey14x
Member
1 year ago

Territorial pissing. It seems obvious to me, the way the Maddon drama unfolded that it’s a perfect example of the power struggle between the FO and the on-field management as modern analytics-driven baseball evolves. We saw it with Jerry and Soth. “Science advances one funeral at a time.” Baseball advances similarly. What GM will want to hire Maddon? If I hire this guy, how can I tell when, after our relationship is through, whether or not he will publish some tell-all bitch fest, airing out dirty laundry, when he leaves the organization? Joe burns bridges.

Angelstan
Trusted Member
1 year ago
Reply to  jefeRey14x

Yes, clearly it was a territorial thing. Maddon came in as the savior years back. The proven winner. The hometown guy. They “thank goodness they got him” manager who was going to save us all. Perry came in later as a young GM with new ideas. The only way that combo would work is if Perry stayed in his lane. Obviously, he didn’t.

This all makes sense now. When the Angels collapsed, it looked like something behind the scenes was wrong. The team looked listless and dead at times. Factors beyond just baseball seemed to be plaguing them. Raisel couldn’t pitch anymore. Others couldn’t perform. Nothing looked right. FO/manager dysfunction will do that. Look at the Cowboys for 20 years before Jerry’s son basically took over much of everything. At least we now can understand what it was. Hopefully, history won’t repeat itself.

jefeRey14x
Member
1 year ago
Reply to  Angelstan

The thing is… the “lanes” are changing. Joe and his ilk are on the way out. They can bitch and moan all they want, but field managers will probably yield even more control to GMs and analytics departments. Baseball evolves like all life. It isn’t rounders anymore. Old happens.

JackFrost
Super Member
1 year ago
Reply to  Angelstan

Now, we can see that it was not so much that Raisel “couldn’t pitch anymore,” but rather that Perry was in the midst of a power play, to take over all strategic baseball operations of the team, not only in roster construction and drafting (the traditional terrain of GM’s) but EVEN making lineup decisions on a day to day basis AND even inserting himself in the in-game decision making. This is not something you spring on your manager — he MUST know this going in. What Arte and Perry did to Joe was completely unfair and quite frankly cruel.

This little tidbit from the long form piece suggests the problem was pretty deep, and that the losing streak was really the fault of Perry and his power play, not the ineptitude of Maddon (put that in your pipe and smoke it Gitch!).

Maddon :

“In that losing stretch that led to my demise, a lot of relievers were made unavailable,” Maddon says. “I couldn’t use them.

That is a direct quote from Joe. This in fact should make us even more angry as Angel fans — we had a really good team that was clicking on all cylinders, and Perry went and torpedoed the season for the sake of his ego and need for power and control. I can’t wait for the new owner to throw Perry and his fat ass on the street.

Good riddance.

Last edited 1 year ago by JackFrost
Commander_Nate
Member
Trusted Member
1 year ago
Reply to  JackFrost

Yeah, that SI article is a very interesting read. At the time, I was definitely on the “Fire Maddon!!1!” train like many because of Perry’s same logic that “something isn’t working and has to change.” However, when basically nothing else was done to change things afterward, I began to wonder. It now really seems like Perry didn’t have much more of a plan beyond the firing and eliminating a competing voice of authority.

Really makes me wonder about some of those games during that streak now. For example, why bring Iggy in at all against Harper given the matchup numbers? Or why not just walk him and give up a run to preserve the lead, which we’d already done successfully in another game a few weeks before? Was there just nobody else available per the FO or did they say “don’t do that sacrifice IBB thing again?” Whatever though, at least I finally got to see a grand slam in person…

For the most part I’m pro-analytics when it comes to these arguments, but I do think things have reached a point where the pendulum has swung too far in some ways. I don’t necessarily mean you need to have “Old-timey grit” and arrogance reign supreme like some of these managers display, but at the end of the day this is a human game played by real people. Success in terms of team performance and fan enjoyment relies on that above all else. You’re not going to get it, at least not consistently, trying to run the whole show by algorithm like an Amazon warehouse or Facebook’s invasive-ass ad services. Doing that just makes everyone uncomfortable, and nobody enjoys watching people try to do math for very long. This is part of why I’m glad shifts are finally being regulated…among other things.

I don’t know what the exact solution is, but there clearly needs to be some kind of balance struck. Calling down mid-game to dictate moves or taking relievers out before the game even starts definitely seems like a bridge too far. Maybe you present that data and then rely on the manager (or hell, the GM can do it too) to double check with the player directly. “Hey, the spreadsheet says you might be taxed and you seem a little tired lately. How do you feel tonight?” Then let them speak honestly and make a decision accordingly. This dictating from on high, even if well-meaning and backed by data (accurate or not, I don’t know) just isn’t a good way to build culture and rapport with colleagues. I see it all the time here in DC after elections and shit when new political teams come in to their assigned agencies and think they know everything or have to stick to some dogmatic policy goal despite what the experienced pros tell them (don’t worry, it’s bipartisan on this front despite whether or not I like a given WH occupant).

The copying thing also sucks. “This is how the Braves/Dodgers/Giants do it” is bound to rub people the wrong way. Sure, learn from other successful organizations but also try putting your own spin on it. We’re not the Braves or Dodgers, we’re the Angels. We have a ring and a HOFer to our name, and two future ones right now. Come up with the new Angel Way, FFS.

I wonder if a new owner adopting the President of Baseball Ops thing plus a GM might help. Seems like Perry is great at bringing data that can help in games and evaluating player value, but maybe not so great at building team culture. A third high-ranking voice with some more EQ as noted above acting as a final arbiter might be the way out of this mess.

smithy610
Super Member
1 year ago
Reply to  Commander_Nate

I don’t know what the exact solution is, but there clearly needs to be some kind of balance struck. Calling down mid-game to dictate moves or taking relievers out before the game even starts definitely seems like a bridge too far. Maybe you present that data and then rely on the manager (or hell, the GM can do it too) to double check with the player directly. “Hey, the spreadsheet says you might be taxed and you seem a little tired lately. How do you feel tonight?” Then let them speak honestly and make a decision accordingly. This dictating from on high, even if well-meaning and backed by data (accurate or not, I don’t know) just isn’t a good way to build culture and rapport with colleagues.

I agree. This is the first thing that came to mind when Joe mentioned that he wasn’t allowed to use some bullpen pieces because “the data and algorithms said so.” There had to be some kind of flexibility in these situations. Say, is the team supposed to be really sending in Elvis Peguero in a late one-run game against the Yankees, because the data said Iglesias, Tepera, Loup, Barria and others are not and should not be available?

I’m all for analytics and all. It’s the way of the present and the future. But I don’t think it has to be the end-all and be-all of in-game decisions.

And personally, I also do think Perry calling the dugout in the middle of the game to take out Trout is a bridge too far. Whatever they dynamics of their hierarchy is (and to be fair, ALL OF US do not know and are just speculating), there has to be some respect there. I don’t think anyone would also appreciate had Joe told Perry “well, you didn’t get me any respectable bench pieces. Now Fletch is injured, and all you got me were Velasquez and Wade. Why don’t you go find me better players out there?”

JackFrost
Super Member
1 year ago
Reply to  Commander_Nate

Well stated Nate, and I agree.

I particularly thought this line got at the gist of the problem :

This dictating from on high, even if well-meaning and backed by data ….. just isn’t a good way to build culture and rapport with colleagues.

And this is key. Joe was in theory brought in because he knew how to build a winning culture. That was his forte. That is what he is good at. So, IF the Angels did want to go the Dodgers route they 1) should not have brought in a veteran guy like Maddon who is very hands on and is a leader of men, or 2) they would need to have been totally up front with him about their plan and explained the nature of collaboration sought with the GM and Manager, in which case Joe would not have taken the job. So, in short Arte and the Angels brass seem not to have thought this out very well (no surprises there!)

I also agree with your point about establishing our own way. It is possible to use both approaches, and in fact, this is what Joe had done in both Tampa Bay and Chicago. He was a sort of hybrid of an old-school manager and a new school analytics approach. He did not disregard numbers and analytics, but he also did not rely on them exclusively. The Dodgers “Front Office running the whole thing” approach is not the only way to do things. I believe we were on the right track with Joe and were headed for the playoffs had Perry not been dead set on a power play/takeover.

Last edited 1 year ago by JackFrost
smithy610
Super Member
1 year ago
Reply to  JackFrost

And this is key. Joe was in theory brought in because he knew how to build a winning culture. That was his forte. That is what he is good at. So, IF the Angels did want to go the Dodgers route they 1) should not have brought in a veteran guy like Maddon who is very hands on and is a leader of men, or 2) they would need to have been totally up front with him about their plan and explained the nature of collaboration sought with the GM and Manager, in which case Joe would not have taken the job. So, in short Arte and the Angels brass seem not to have thought this out very well (no surprises there!)

To be fair, Perry did not hire Maddon. Eppler (and Arte) did. So it wasn’t like Perry knew Maddon was not of his ilk, but hired him anyway.

And yes, Maddon became popular because he was the first one among his “generation” to embrace analytics and data. I’m not sure why all of a sudden he’s regarded as one of the old stooges as one of those who only relies on gut feelings. Wasn’t Tampa lauded because Maddon (and Friedman) started managing the team differently (wasn’t it Maddon who first employed using an “opener”? I can’t remember). I think what he was saying is that analytics can’t just be the only way to do things, it has to account for some flexibility as well. There has to be some happy medium in between.

JackFrost
Super Member
1 year ago
Reply to  smithy610

Maddon was never a hardcore “Moneyball” kind of guy. He has always thought outside of the box. Yes, he and Friedman in collaboration used numbers and data, but more importantly, Joe was a revolutionary. He thought differently, and his innovations were not about analytics but about seeing the game differently. A perfect example of this was his invention of the “closer by committee.” That really helped the Rays achieve the level of success they reached, and really overachieved in a big way.

Finally, in short, Maddon was not an “analytics guy” per se, he was, as I have stated elsewhere more of a hybrid between an old school style manager who valued intuition and a new breed of manager willing to try different things (some of which were data based or driven) , such as the shift. The Rays were one of the first teams if not the first team to employ the shift consistently to good effect.

Last edited 1 year ago by JackFrost
smithy610
Super Member
1 year ago

Well, Perry is being classy about it:

“I’m not going to get into details,” Minasian said with a smile. “I enjoyed working with Joe. I felt like we had a really good relationship. He’s trying to sell books. I get it. I’m not going to go into anything further than that. … I wish nothing but the best for Joe. I hope he’s on the New York Times bestseller list.”

DowningDude
Legend
1 year ago
Reply to  smithy610

Meanwhile, Perry’s punching bag in the garage getting some work……

JackFrost
Super Member
1 year ago
Reply to  smithy610

The book thing is a convenient excuse/cover for Perry. Sure Joe would like his book to do well, but is he going to make this kind of shit up? That is not who he is.

I mean, who here thinks Joe lied and made all of this up to sell books?

Please.

Last edited 1 year ago by JackFrost
smithy610
Super Member
1 year ago
Reply to  JackFrost

For what it’s worth I don’t think Joe lied, but obviously, this is from his point of view, so you also got to look at it that he may have embellished or exaggerated some things in his favor.

And to be fair to Joe, the stories weren’t an outright hit pieces on Perry. Just that they have two very different philosophies that didn’t mesh well.

Also, I think if they were outright lies, Perry would have found a way to have said so politely and diplomatically.

Angelstan
Trusted Member
1 year ago
Reply to  smithy610

The gist is in the middle of a great start with hope for the future the GM and Manager got into a a nonstop back and forth that cratered any good feeling on the team and everyone went into a funk. And there went the season.

JackFrost
Super Member
1 year ago
Reply to  Angelstan

Yes, in a nutshell that is it. My short description would be “Perry torpedoed the season.” The reason I put the blame fully on Perry and not splitting it with Joe was because that was not what Joe signed up for. This was clearly sprung on him, and Joe was obviously totally taken off guard and thrown for a loop (no pun intended) with the calling down to the dugout mid-game. As I said earlier, it is no accident that the long losing streak followed shortly after Perry’s antics on May 9th.

Last edited 1 year ago by JackFrost
2002heaven
Super Member
1 year ago
Reply to  JackFrost

Why do you think he has to make stuff up?
If somebody was to also interview Tony Reagins, Gerard Dipoto , Brad Ausmus, Ed Bane, and maybe even Billy Eppler, I guarantee you that you would get a negative mouthful out of all of them. This is all about YOO NOH HOO and his two lieutenants (John C and Dennis K). BTW what did Tony LaRussa do when YOO NOH HOO hired him as a outside adviser? I also believe Soth isn’t comepletely out of the picture either (Yes I think he still whispers in YNH’s ear because he still has his ear).

Last edited 1 year ago by 2002heaven
BannedInLA
Super Member
1 year ago

The game we attended on August 17th perfectly summed up the Angels season.

Ohtani, if I recall correctly had 2 homers, 1 triple and 6 RBI.

The Angels lost to Seattle by 4 or 5 runs.

DowningDude
Legend
1 year ago

Go team!

GrandpaBaseball
Legend
1 year ago

Joe Maddon dug his own grave. How you might ask, and the answer is in the line ups that he presented game in and game out.

Why in every game were one or two of either the super stars or hottest bats on the bench?
Why was Ohtani never asked to take a day off, or was he asked to and declined.
Is Trout like Roberto Clemente and wants games off for a hang nail?

Joe Maddon claimed that even in Chicago he gave everyone a day off almost weekly. Partly true as he had the personnel to accomplish that in most areas except catcher and first base. Bryant could play a lot of positions and not just third base. Joe had two very good shortstops that could cover second and third. But he frustrated the lineup as each day he played the Cubs at not just different positions in the field but also in the lineup

Coming over to the Angels Joe did the same type of thing with the Angels and the team and the fans along with the owner and GM could not understand his logic of his having a feel for the team in doing so. The “Front Office” and owner were going along with him as the team was winning and then the losing Streak started and that was the straw that broke the camel’s proverbial back broke, and the Pink Slip was issued. Perry may have broken an unwritten rule earlier by calling down to the dugout to have Trout removed in a “Blowout”, but he did so for concern over his made of glass CF’er and over flexing his power over Joe Maddon himself.

Dysfunctional as the team is because of how Arte and his putting the wrong people in place and not having the right feel, for lack of a better word, in hiring practices, he hamstrung the team. The GM though that all his hard work in assembling the team was going to get the Angels to the playoffs was failing and Joe simply had to go.

Injuries to the top paid players for years has plagued the team. Lack of competent along with enough front office people has plagued the team. No one alone can help this team become winners A change at the very top is going to be a start followed by jettisoning the top position people that are referred to as Vice Presidents needs to go. While I won’t describe the future as bright exactly, there is light at the end of the tunnel with the proper ownership.

Would I change the GM, no I would not. But even Perry can’t do it all as he has tried while spreading himself to thin because of lack of proper people at positions that dictate. Minasian has a vision, and he is going to achieve that vision under the proper ownership, just not under Arte and his misguided leadership.

MarineLayer
Super Member
1 year ago

GP, what exactly is Minasian’s vision aside from desperately trying to hang onto his job as we have utterly failed during his tenure? I just don’t see it. Please enlighten me.

DowningDude
Legend
1 year ago
Reply to  MarineLayer

Draft shitloads of pitchers?

MarineLayer
Super Member
1 year ago
Reply to  DowningDude

I’m hoping one or two of them might be better than his awesome signings, Loup and Tepera.

2GA2Join
Super Member
1 year ago
Reply to  MarineLayer

I have to call out this as poor evidence. Probably most people were excited that we signed Loup and Tepera. They were 2 of the best arms available. That is what we needed. No one had a time machine and told us wait, don’t sign them because they are inexplicably suddenly going to massively tank.

Each year we all pine away on these chats saying what we need. In the past few years, everyone was screaming “bullpen bullpen bullpen.” Well, Perry signed two pretty decent bullpen arms there. Plus a slightly fringe guy in Bradley for not much money. It all didn’t work out. But I’m not going to sit here and say “Perry you suck!” now because of that.

Now we need starting pitching. We’d probably all be excited if Perry nabbed Rodon. But if next year he melts down suddenly and has a 4.5ERA, are we going to say “see Perry absolutely sucks, he signed Rodon!”?

DowningDude
Legend
1 year ago
Reply to  2GA2Join

We signed Aaron Loup. Who actually showed up was this guy:
comment image

MarineLayer
Super Member
1 year ago
Reply to  2GA2Join

There were plenty of good arms and he overpaid for two of the crappiest, most unreliable ones. I could see misfiring on one, but both! The guy is a pathetic joke. Another horrible Arturo decision. GMs are paid to make good decisions, what are his good decisions?

DowningDude
Legend
1 year ago
Reply to  MarineLayer

Dude. If you foresaw the collapse of Tepera and Loup (two signings met with 100% acceptance here) then you’re in the wrong profession. Come on, man!

Angelstan
Trusted Member
1 year ago
Reply to  DowningDude

Tepera and Loup are ok. They are getting premium money to be ok though. That’s the issue. The fans liked the pickups because the year before it was Cishek and Watson — two guys cut by other teams. The problem is other teams have studs in the 7-8 inning roles including guys throwing 95-98 mph. Angels need those guys.

smithy610
Super Member
1 year ago
Reply to  DowningDude

C’mon , you should know by now that some people just has the perfect hindsight!

Loup in 2021:

65 games, 0.95 ERA, 14 H, 0.94 WHIP, .192 BAA

Tepera in 2021:

with Cubs – 43 games, 2.91 ERA, 0.78 WHIP, .150 BAA
with ChiSox – 22 games, 2.50 ERA, 1.11 WHIP, .197 BAA

DowningDude
Legend
1 year ago
Reply to  smithy610

Shudda seen their failure coming a mile away with shitty stats like those. Mebbe it’s YEW NOuGH HEWWW fault

MarineLayer
Super Member
1 year ago
Reply to  2GA2Join

Under the best case scenario, it was an overpay. In reality, the facts need to be paid attention to. These pickups, as with most of his others, have failed. Results should count.

GrandpaBaseball
Legend
1 year ago
Reply to  MarineLayer

Could you have done better? No one that is experienced wants the damn job. The vision is to work on pitching and defense. With so many needs and holes, and little in Resorces and not much help in the FO, it is impossible to be looking like a great GM. Everyone in MLB knows that this is a piece of crap place to work because of Arte. PTP is the best we are to get with the budget, the personnel, and lousy FO that is vacant of good people.

Bachman was brought in as an inexpensive slot choice signing to be able to save money so to be able to sign better choices in later rounds. It did not work. Lesson learned two years in a row and in PTP’s third draft he went with the best player.

So, you don’t care for PTP. Is the blame for failure all on him? It’s his fault that Trout and Rendon and Fletcher were injured. He had X amount of money to put the best team he could together. With little money to use he covered all the positions he could. he was unlucky with Thor but trying to spend lightly on RF and LF he got some value out of Marsh in trade and very lucky with Ward. He got lucky bringing up Rengifo. PTP got unlucky with Adell and told ‘Ol Joe to start Ward, that’s why the early announcement of that choice.

Wade and Duffy and Squid were not supposed to be starters, but injuries forced the issue.

It is not possible to have a winning team if your team does not have big years from several players and only Shohei was reliable. PTP didn’t sign Rendon, but that signing left very little money to put a winning team together.

Perry Minasian has done a decent job. Mistakes in signing Thor (Draft Choice gone) for too much money maybe, but he addressed the Bullpen and came up short with his 3 big pick-ups. Suzuki was a good signing for the money of which there was none.

Arte has seen the writing on the wall and will hopefully be gone soon, but the same problems will exsist.

Angelstan
Trusted Member
1 year ago

Duffy was a good acquisition. It’s a shame he got hurt also. Wade was ok. The falling in love with Squid as a .180 hitter with a nice glove was just the thing a team with a struggling offense couldn’t do. The Syndergaard move was fine. A bit pricey but tolerable.

But the team needs to win games. It’s that simple. And they need to go into seasons without glaring holes. In 2022 after cutting Upton, they had unproven OFs (left field), Fletcher hurt, zero SS/2B guys that could be decent (excluding Duffy who they didn’t want to play there), a questionable bullpen and one or more experimental starting pitchers. That cannot be the team.

GrandpaBaseball
Legend
1 year ago
Reply to  Angelstan

I think Squid not hitting was a glaring problem, but his glove and range gave him a positive WAR. Duffy is a singles hitter with a limited glove. Both are and will be career backups. Thor was not worth the money nor the draft choice but was worth the gamble considering the issues we have faced for 10 at starting pitching. Investment in the BP was a good investment at the time considering the players signed. With 95% of all relievers are just not reliable year in and year out, so maybe those same two guys, Loup and Tapera come back next season.

Always at some point a team has choices to make that are tough. With no money to spend based on Arte hard line caps, the team had no choice but to relay on Marsh and Adell and Ward.

Bottom line is with the Angels yearly is injuries. Yes, all teams face injuries, but not every year to the high-priced players who need to be counted on like Trout and Rendon. Throw in Fletcher and Walsh then the team is in trouble with little in the way to promote. Last year the “scrubs came through and those same players this year failed and the thin options in AAA were glaring.

On return Trout proved he is a Super Star and the wins returned. Problem is he is hard pressed to stay healthy and to be counted on, certainly that goes for Rendon also. With little help on the way, the team has to jettison payroll to rebuild or spend a lot more to add to the win column.

Being the GM of the Angels is impossible, what holes to fill with little money means either minor leaguers brought up and hope for the best or sign from the scrap heap. Do you sign a SS like a Swanson or leave it to Soto and maybe Neto? Do you trade Ohtani should he chose to not re-sign or kept him until the end? Trade Rengifo or hold on and hope what we saw is not as far up as he can go. Trade for a RH !B for left-handed pitching and platoon Walsh or give him one more chance if his injury heals? If Ohtani is gone, who do you sign or trade for to fill his pitching slot?

No matter how things turn out no GM can bat a 1.000 in the decisions that need to be made here. Plus, you have Arte sticking his nose in. Tough position for any GM to be working in.

Angelstan
Trusted Member
1 year ago

Interesting points. For next year, your middle infield is Fletcher, Rengifo and Soto. you need to spend your money on LF and another reliable bat for 1B in case Walsh cannot come back. You can always play Walsh in LF if needed. So you get two hitters. The rest is what you have assuming there is enough depth.

The pitching needs another starter. The bullpen isn’t good enough for a full season but you can hope you can get to June and make a deal then. Or one of the hard-throwers in the minors make the club and are good.

As to Squid, defense is good on a team that doesn’t need the hitting for the position. The Angels aren’t that team. Defense is really a luxury. If you cannot hit, you cannot win and no one wants to come to the games. So get some hitters.

rosstrade
Trusted Member
1 year ago

With Nevin extended, it feels like Perry is probably good for another year with the Halos until a new owner takes control.

What’s interesting is the conflict between Perry and Joe being one of analytics versus old school baseball experience and instincts.

For many years, baseball stood still. Traditions remained firm. Now, with technology and data, the game of baseball is rapidly changing. I am not sure it is making the game better. For me, it isn’t.

Is it helping teams win more games? I really don’t know.

I don’t want to be an old fogey, like Grandpa, and resist the inevitable change that comes with the passing of the years.

But I don’t believe that a guy running algorithms as an assistant to the GM is going to be able to determine better baseball strategy and tactics than a guy like Joe Maddon who is on the field and with the players all of the time….

Last edited 1 year ago by rosstrade
GrandpaBaseball
Legend
1 year ago
Reply to  rosstrade

How is it that i appear to be an Old Fogey, interesting that I appear to be an Old Fogey based on what criteria, that I think that PTP should be kept? Hmm, well if blaming the GM for another lost season with very little wiggle room makes me appear that way, so be it.

MarineLayer
Super Member
1 year ago
  1. Reading the Minasian interviews convinces me more than ever he needs to be gone immediately, along with Arturo. Sell, dude.
  2. I can’t enjoy the accomplishments of anybody who competes against,including the legendary Stephen Vogt. I’m sick of being posterized.
  3. I have no intention of watching other teams compete in the playoffs after we have been eliminated. I will wait.
  4. Thank you to all the writers of Crashing, both staff and commenters. Not everybody agrees with everything I say, but I appreciate y’all putting up with me. As a fan of the LA Angels since 1961, I will always be behind this team, no matter how much I loathe the current ownership.
  5. May the off-season be kind to us, with a new owner who spends and hires a competent new front office, and get the hell out of the way.
  6. May Mike Trout have a healthy off-season, and may Shohei enjoy a long and productive career wherever he ends up. You are MVPs and legends!
Fansince1971
Legend
1 year ago

Dysfunctional is accurate. At all levels of the organization. The plan has been to ‘compete’ and keep butts in the seats. ‘Compete’ is a vague word that could mean different things to different people. The team is arguably competitive right now as it is. Not to my definition but to others – maybe.

Only with this amount of dysfunction could a team have two MVP level players and still basically suck. Also, the pitching this year was adequate (unlike previous seasons). In short, it always seems to be something which falls again within the dysfunctional description.

I for one look forward to the sale. Maybe we will get lucky and it will be the harbinger of a new era of a functional Organization at all levels – something like the Dodgers or Cardinals. Maybe it won’t. But one things for sure, the current situation completely sucks and has sucked and I am definitely ready for a change.

Angelstan
Trusted Member
1 year ago
Reply to  Fansince1971

There was dysfunction at times clearly. The other point is certain persons just weren’t good at what they do. Numerous mistakes were made the last 4 years. Having Upton opt out and then re-signing him for much longer and bigger money. Mistake. It was obvious then. Bringing in broken down veteran pitchers. Mistake. Not understanding the lack of depth and the inability to trust the young guys in the OF. Mistake. We can go on and on.

They need a reliable LF and another power hitter for 2023. They need another reliable starting pitcher. They can roll the dice with the rest if they fill these holes without monumentally overpaying. Will they?