LA Angels Thursday News Crash:

The Angels drafted Caden and Casey Dana on day three of the draft. Caden is a power pitcher with a fastball, a curve, and a still developing changeup. Casey is an outfielder with some pop. Their oldest brother Cullen was drafted by the Padres in 2018. The overall Angels Draft Tracker is here. Apparently it is bizarre for the Angels to be losing so many games and they hope to stop doing that. Mike Trout has a personal All Star Game memory. (I’d expect he has a lot of them but time was limiting.) Some folks believe that Ben Joyce will be the first draftee from this year to make it to the majors. Some even think he might make it this season.

Tyler Mahle will be back from the injured list on Sunday. Lance McCullers Jr. will begin his rehab assignment on Friday.

Jonathan Papelbon trolls Derek Jeter and ESPN if anybody cares. The smack talking also involves Alex Rodriguez.

LOL! Dallas Keuchel was just DFAd again. This poor guy. He’d better learn how to pitch again right quick.

What a wimp! only 103 MPH.

Photo credit: Rex Fregosi

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Angelz4ever
Trusted Member
4 months ago

Ohtani’s not gonna be traded this season.

mic drop.

Fansince1971
Legend
4 months ago
Reply to  Angelz4ever

Ooooh I like the mic drop for emphasis. It’s so masculine!

Jayman28
Trusted Member
4 months ago
Reply to  Angelz4ever

Now I think he should

JackFrost
Super Member
4 months ago
Reply to  Jayman28

Maybe you realize that it does not matter what you think.

WallyChuckChili
Super Member
4 months ago
Reply to  Angelz4ever

In Ohtani style, you should’ve set the mic down gently.

smithy610
Trusted Member
4 months ago

The Shohei potential trade is starting to be out in the open…

https://www.mlb.com/news/mlb-rumors-trades-and-signings

Fansince1971
Legend
4 months ago
Reply to  smithy610

This has been the driving thought for me personally. If you can’t sign him, now’s the time to trade him.

Just as long as they get more than cash to fund a play.

Last edited 4 months ago by Fansince1971
Angelz4ever
Trusted Member
4 months ago
Reply to  Fansince1971

The Halos don’t know if he can’t be signed until next season. If they sign him this season, the AAV goes up this season as well.

Last edited 4 months ago by Angelz4ever
Fansince1971
Legend
4 months ago
Reply to  Angelz4ever

Oh there’s no doubt in my mind he can be signed. But at what price. I’ve said it before- unless Arte is going to raise the budget by $40m+, there is no way to sign Ohtani and have a competitive ballclub given the lack of farm and the amount of long term money already committed to Trout and Rendon.

Last edited 4 months ago by Fansince1971
h27kim
Trusted Member
4 months ago
Reply to  Fansince1971

Will trading Ohtani (while everything else stays as they are) “help” us? I’m not so confident about that.

The MO that Arte has been following, when he couldn’t get a big star for oodles of money, has been to throw the same money at some other star (who makes less sense) and pretend that everything is great. So we got Hamilton instead of Greinke and Rendon instead of Cole. I’m bothered by the fact that Aaron Judge is a FA this offseason and Arte’s pals are known Yankee fans. If Shohei goes, the money that might have gone to him would go to sign Judge, I suspect, and we are back to the same situation–about 120 million stuck on 3 players and I think Judge makes a lot less sense than Shohei for all manner of reasons, including the one that Arte understands well–marketing. We hope that this is not the case and the money not spent would actually be invest in longer term baseball stuff, but, let’s face it, that seems rather improbable given the recent past.

So we get a haul of prospects/young players for Shohei, but how will they pan out? I think we’ll get some combination of good prospects and solid but not “exceptional” young major leaguers with upside (if only because nobody ever trades “exceptional” young players, ever). Their contributions next year, in all probability, will be modest and much will depend on how much of their “upside” we’ll be able to extract in the future. This is another thing that I’m not too confident about. Yes, I realize that Minasian has injected some new blood into scouting and development, but, given the past decade’s history, I’ll believe them when the results roll in. Not too sure if I want to put much trust in them just yet. And we are not going to get a whole farm for Shohei anyways, so the farm remains fairly barren. Some room for hope, but a lot of reasons to doubt.

The likely outcome of a Shohei trade, sadly, doesn’t seem all that enticing. At best we’ll get a bit of time to reshuffle and regroup, which we hope will be used wisely. (We’ll see if things are different if the potential Ohtani money doesn’t go to Judge. If it goes to Correa or Bogaerts, I’ll have mixed feelings. A lot of pieces have to fit for them to make sense at the kind of money they’ll command.) I just don’t have too much faith that that’s going to happen.

h27kim
Trusted Member
4 months ago
Reply to  h27kim

PS: I don’t know if there’s a good solution: I’m just saying that the best that can be hoped for from trading Ohtani is a few years’ reprieve to sort things out, not really a game changer. The only real game changer is the organization somehow changing direction big time, and fat chance of that taking place.

Fansince1971
Legend
4 months ago
Reply to  h27kim

I think what you are saying is that the team is directionless – like a ship without a rudder – and therefore there is no clear indication of what direction this team is headed.

Sure I would love to keep Ohtani. And I understand your concern about Arte missing out on Ohtani and directing money e towards a stupid deal like he has done previously.

But the scenario that I am imagining is one where the Angels don’t even try to sign Ohtani because he just doesn’t fit into Arte’s budget given the other financial commitments. In such a scenario, there would be no rebound deal because there would be no attempt to sign Ohtani.

Instead, given this rudderless bloated behemoth which has a mediocre farm and a budget that cannot support another long term giant contract, Ohtani would be traded this season while his trade value is highest. Can anyone guarantee great prospects- no. But with a farm system as bad as the Angels’, the rebuild has to start somewhere. That would at least be something of a direction.

The only other viable option from my perspective is for Arte to agree to substantially increase payroll and make a true play to keep Ohtani. That would again at least be something of a direction.

But what I think will happen is that this broken ship will continue to take on water and float without direction for the next year and a half. Arte will maximize the return on Ohtani while he is comparatively cheap and ultimately Ohtani will leave and the Angels will get nada in return. And the ship will eventually break in half.

h27kim
Trusted Member
4 months ago
Reply to  Fansince1971

Yep, I agree. In the ideal universe, the team could trade Ohtani and make it work, but it would still take a lot of work to right the ship. But we don’t live in an ideal world and I just don’t see a way the team takes advantage of a few years’ breathing room (but no more) that the trade would bring. So more bitterness, this time from a “wasted” Ohtani trade if that does happen–or a “wasted” Ohtani non-trade, if it doesn’t. :/

JackFrost
Super Member
4 months ago
Reply to  Fansince1971

Quite possible. And my argument with you yesterday was that trading Ohtani now for four prospects of which three are likely to fail or grossly underachieve (just based on probability of how often prospects “hit”) is not a solution. That will not come close to preventing the ship from “breaking in half” as you say.

Until Arte decides to change his overall approach and invest in infrastructure, including adequately financing international scouts, advance scouts, improved and state of the art strength and training regimens and techniques, quality coaches at all levels and other such aspects of a sports operation it likely will not matter anyway. So why not keep the fan-favorite on-board and get that much more bang for your buck while you have it ?

Cowboy26
Legend
4 months ago
Reply to  Angelz4ever

Actually I think its too late to sign an extension this year and count it against the CBT threshold for this year. But If they had signed him to an extension earlier in the season this would have been a great way to spread out the added salary against the tax thresholds in future years.

Eric_in_Portland
Legend
4 months ago
Reply to  smithy610

Some guy at the Atlantic actually suggested the Angels could offer Shohei, Rendon, Adell plus “cash considerations” for Soto.

How does that guy have a job? That’s absolutely bonkers and ignorant, too.

h27kim
Trusted Member
4 months ago

The Atlantic? They do baseball commentary now?

Eric_in_Portland
Legend
4 months ago
Reply to  h27kim

I must have read it wrong. Probably the Athletic

steelgolf
Super Member
4 months ago

🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣. That idiot who suggested that trade should be fired from his writing job.

h27kim
Trusted Member
4 months ago
Reply to  steelgolf

You know, the Atlantic, as opposed to the Athletic, could plausibly suggest a trade like that…

Senator_John_Blutarsky
Super Member
4 months ago

So Tony Reagins has a writing gig for the Athletic? Sweeeet…..more “must read” material for the bathroom!

comment image

JackFrost
Super Member
4 months ago

Unloading Rendon’s contract would be appealing. Don’t think Nats would go for that as you suggest….

Jayman28
Trusted Member
4 months ago

Let’s be real, as much as we wish Arte could do this or that or should do this or that, you know well he won’t.

He is stuck in his old ways and thinks the status quo is good enough. He’s becoming a typical owner that doesn’t care that his team isn’t performing because he can show off to his other rich buddies he owns a sports team. His wealthy friends probably do not care he runs a dysfunctional franchise because they only see the dollar bills he has in his pockets (just like the Donald Sterling fiasco).

gitchogritchoffmypettis
Legend
Reply to  Jayman28

Man, I sure hope so. He should just let the team slide into oblivion while he hangs out at celebrity camel races and does weird rituals in the woods with his fellow evil rich people who don’t give a f*** about their own businesses anymore.

It’ll be awesome if it turns out you’re right instead of just…. you know, not otherly smart.

Jayman28
Trusted Member
4 months ago

I will be right

gitchogritchoffmypettis
Legend
Reply to  Jayman28

Sounds fun. We’ll all clap for you as soon as the proof comes out that Arte’s not interested in winning and is just collecting money.

Jayman28
Trusted Member
4 months ago

I appreciate that

Cowboy26
Legend
4 months ago
Reply to  Jayman28

How will we know?

Jayman28
Trusted Member
4 months ago
Reply to  Cowboy26

By the power of faith

gitchogritchoffmypettis
Legend
Reply to  Cowboy26

If you’re a real baseball person you just know. Evidence is for Pollyannas.

2002heaven
Trusted Member
4 months ago

comment image
yacht seized in London

Cowboy26
Legend
4 months ago
Reply to  2002heaven

Wow thanks. I had wondered where I had left it.

Cowboy26
Legend
4 months ago

Has anyone seen this yet?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sy–P-wkYQg

Even Watching this trailer gets me pumped up about our 3rd round draft pick, Ben Joyce.

Last edited 4 months ago by Cowboy26
TheOrangeCurtain
Trusted Member
4 months ago

So the same Dallas Keuchel who was bitching about being “undervalued” in free agency a few years ago, just got released for a second time this year due to crap performance. He’s 34 and he’s done. The lowly Diamondbacks gave him a second chance and even they didn’t need to waste any more time on him taking up a roster spot.

So I guess ol’ Dallas was right in a technical sense. He wasn’t valued correctly in the end in Free Agency. Actually he was grossly overpaid, thanks to Borass. The White Sox basically paid him $55M to provide them one solid, productive ~2 WAR season as a frontline starter, about $20M in value. He walks away with $35M extra in his pocket, so I guess that can make up for his whining about having a QO attached to him back under the Astros’ team control and all his other entitled grievances. See ya, dude!

Cowboy26
Legend
4 months ago

If I recall, Dallas was in the same free agent class as Mad Bum & Ryu. There was a lot of gnashing of teeth on this site over not pursuing those 3. I know we’ve had our own share of horrible signings both during and since , but I think we can admit we probably dodged a bullet or two on that group.

gitchogritchoffmypettis
Legend
Reply to  Cowboy26

But if we had just paid Dallas 57 million he would have 100% surely come here. Stupid Billy. Cheap Arte.

2002heaven
Trusted Member
4 months ago

Maybe his mother in law or wife didn’t like Newport Beach just like Zack Greinke’s wife. What a dump Dana Point is……

gitchogritchoffmypettis
Legend
Reply to  2002heaven

Dude, I can’t get over Wheeler’s wife wanting to play in Philly because she missed South New Jersey so much. I get it. She’s from there. But man, I have been there…. jus visit in the off season for like 3 weeks.

Jayman28
Trusted Member
4 months ago

Doing it for your woman? *facepalm

gitchogritchoffmypettis
Legend
Reply to  Jayman28

South Jersey…. that’s a man who loves his wife. I guess it’s kind of nice down toward the Delaware’s mouth…. actually down by Troutville

Jeff Joiner
Editor
Super Member
4 months ago
Reply to  Cowboy26

I’ll admit to being a Dallas Keuchel proponent. Dude got a ton of ground balls and we looked solid up the middle. I do think inducing soft contact is a skill and figured Dallas would be able to largely continue that skill as his velo diminished.

I was dead wrong.

Not the first time. Won’t be the last time.

Cowboy26
Legend
4 months ago
Reply to  Jeff Joiner

Thats ok Jeff. I’d still take you in a split second over all the nimrods we’ve had in the front office any day of the week.

2002heaven
Trusted Member
4 months ago
Reply to  Cowboy26

bUT WEE DIDENT DOge the 3 bullets above……HIP HIP HOOray for the owner who meddled on the Joc Pederson trade. It terns out we need a RF again……LOL!!!

Cowboy26
Legend
4 months ago
Reply to  2002heaven

You are such a dolt. Joc Pederson was a free agent in the season the trade was nixed Which is why the Doyers wanted to trade him to us in the first place.

That was 2 seasons ago .Hes been on 3 different teams since then with mixed results. BTW we have a right fielder his name is Taylor Ward. he makes the league minimum. Your BFF has raked in $21,000,000.00 since Arte kiboshed the trade.

2002heaven
Trusted Member
4 months ago

comment image
comment image
+ Thor Syndergaard ANYTHING ELSE?

gitchogritchoffmypettis
Legend
Reply to  2002heaven

Else…

comment image

steelgolf
Super Member
4 months ago

🤣

Cowboy26
Legend
4 months ago

OMG is the GOAT going to demand a trade to his beloved Philadelphia now?

https://twitter.com/CrossingBroad/status/1549192952693538816

max
Trusted Member
max
4 months ago
Reply to  Cowboy26

Well if dad’s not gonna play might as well let the kiiiiiid play

nishiogawakun
Trusted Member
4 months ago
Reply to  Cowboy26

Having kids of a similar age, I can’t imagine trying to keep an eye on them in that environment while simultaneously doing the press and game stuff.

gitchogritchoffmypettis
Legend
Reply to  Cowboy26

Let’s hope so. #Enjoy80MPayroll

nishiogawakun
Trusted Member
4 months ago

Maybe Arte is playing the long game. Moving from Anaheim (350k pop.) to LA (4M pop.) was only the first move. Next someone will tell him that the state of CA actually has more people than the city of LA (40M pop.) and then we can become the CA Angels again! All joking aside, I’d love to be the CA Angels again. I think the CA hats in all their varieties are much more sellable and likable than the A hats.

All would be fine and well until some other analyst tells Arte that China has a population of 1.4B. I guess at least we wouldn’t have to change colors…

Last edited 4 months ago by nishiogawakun
gitchogritchoffmypettis
Legend
Reply to  nishiogawakun

Yah. California Angels > LAAA or Anaheim or whatever. Unless the Angels are actually IN Los Angeles, then LA all the way like back in the day.

Ef the Hollywood Stars!

GrandpaBaseball
Super Member
4 months ago

Rename the Big A to Wrigley Field and sell advertising to dentist. (gums,)

Cowboy26
Legend
4 months ago

The Angels already tried that back in the day.

rosstrade
Trusted Member
4 months ago

I actually liked it when it was the California Angels.

From a marketing point of view, California trumps Los Angeles.

And, would represent the whole state and not a single city.

max
Trusted Member
max
4 months ago
Reply to  nishiogawakun

yea the ca logo is my favorite

BruinsAngelsKings
Trusted Member
4 months ago
Reply to  max

I’m partial to this one.

comment image

gitchogritchoffmypettis
Legend

Yeah, that’s my favorite.

red floyd
Legend
4 months ago

1970.

SC_Halo
Trusted Member
4 months ago
Reply to  nishiogawakun

i’ve never seen a professional team’s name cause more angst than the Angels. not even the Jets/Giants raise an eyebrow playing in Jersey. We are called “The Angels” for a reason and i don’t mind going back to our original name and why we still have our nickname. California was great, Anaheim was fine too it’s just hilarious watching people twist themselves up over this LA thing, like we have no history with it. Just my opinion.

I think the next name should be Southern California. 😆

Cowboy26
Legend
4 months ago
Reply to  SC_Halo

Of Las Vegas.

Marcotor
Trusted Member
4 months ago
Reply to  nishiogawakun

I think if they had kept CA it would have been fine, but the Disney Marketing Team needed to promote the town, which had not one thing to do with “Anaheim Pride” or all the other silly reasons I see. Also, renaming the team back to CA now seems a bit presumptuous, when the Angels took that name in 1966, they were the only AL team in the state.

Last edited 4 months ago by Marcotor
WallyChuckChili
Super Member
4 months ago
Reply to  Marcotor

Golden State Angels!

Jeff Joiner
Editor
Super Member
4 months ago
Reply to  nishiogawakun

Nice.

China already has the NBA in their back pockets. Hopefully MLB doesn’t follow.

nishiogawakun
Trusted Member
4 months ago
Reply to  Jeff Joiner

Trying to differentiate between the people and the “party”, I’d love if the Chinese as a nation of people were big into the baseball. Definitely not interested in whatever the NBA has going on though, yuck.

Last edited 4 months ago by nishiogawakun
rez2405
Trusted Member
4 months ago

I havent logged on to this site for awhile since the season is pretty much done (albeit the trade deadline is all that is left).
But i was wondering does anybody fear that Arte will soon pass this franchise over to his sons: Rico or Bryan?

Twebur
Super Member
4 months ago
Reply to  rez2405

Arte will not sell/pass on this team anytime soon.

Call it Rez…it ain’t happening. IMHO

rez2405
Trusted Member
4 months ago
Reply to  Twebur

Hes 76 in a couple weeks!

VladimirTrout27
Trusted Member
4 months ago
Reply to  Twebur

As much as Arte is a prideful bastard, I have a little hope that someone, ala Joe Lacob or Steve Ballmer see Trout and Ohtani as marketable and worth the investment to overspend. I think what happens with his land deal could make him retreat and or start the sliver of thought he’ll sell. It just takes 1 buyer (overspending) can change the market. Trout and Shohei are very markerable for obvious reasons. So just like with the NBA and NFL, once a new buyer enters, teams love it as it helps them reevaluate. I don’t see it as likely, but for a business perspective if I’m buying a team, it’s SoCal market (TV), 2 marquee guys, and reasonable attendance.

Last edited 4 months ago by VladimirTrout27
halofansince1978
Trusted Member
4 months ago
Reply to  rez2405

So then you are a quitter.

Absolutely we are horrible.

Why not just enjoy the game.

And simply be a baseball fan.

You will miss it I guarantee that.

admkir
Trusted Member
4 months ago
Reply to  rez2405

I actually didn’t realize Arte had any kids, that being said, since you never anything about them are they even involved or interested in the team?

rez2405
Trusted Member
4 months ago
Reply to  admkir

I dont know.. but you never know with family owned franchises.

Jayman28
Trusted Member
4 months ago
Reply to  rez2405

Exactly, it could be bad like like it was with the Wilpons and Maloofs and currently with the Spanos and Angelos family.

gitchogritchoffmypettis
Legend
Reply to  rez2405

I’m terrified. Every night I shiver with dread at the thought of a man passing the business he bought onto his sons. Especially because, as anyone who pays attention has seen, the sons always do everything exactly the way the father did. I es scared.

Though, in reality, I am more perplexed that we never hear ANYTHING about his kids getting involved with the team. That’s actually a little bit weird at this stage in Arte’s life.

Mia
Legend
Mia
4 months ago

I was not even aware the man had children.

I wonder how their relationship is.

RexFregosi
Super Member
4 months ago
Reply to  Mia

they’ve been around the scene, not very visible, but they are around

Jeff Joiner
Editor
Super Member
4 months ago
Reply to  Mia

He has a son from his first marriage and then two kids with Carol, a son and a daughter.

His kids aren’t dying for attention on social media and reality TV, which is probably a good sign that they actually received attention and direction at home.

gitchogritchoffmypettis
Legend
Reply to  Jeff Joiner

Nope. I’d say it’s obvious that when Arte wasn’t renting his kids out for use in Satanist rituals he was making sure they never learned to read while making them eat government cheese and forcing them to beat the help with sticks…. cause rich n evil.

Cowboy26
Legend
4 months ago
Reply to  rez2405

I know Sonny was murdered but what about Michael? didn’t he enlist?

SC_Halo
Trusted Member
4 months ago
Reply to  Cowboy26

LOL!!! Nice reference…..maybe pass it along to Mo Greene?

WallyChuckChili
Super Member
4 months ago
Reply to  Cowboy26

We’d probably end up with Fredo.

TrAdition!

Senator_John_Blutarsky
Super Member
4 months ago

What’s Chris Cuomo got to do with this?

JackFrost
Super Member
4 months ago
Reply to  Cowboy26

Please do not desecrate the memory of Vito Corleone by comparing Arte to him…

Jayman28
Trusted Member
4 months ago
Reply to  rez2405

Why do I have a feeling that could go bad? When I think of brothers running the team I think of the Maloofs, Wilpons, or even the Angelos, even the Spanos family.

rez2405
Trusted Member
4 months ago
Reply to  Jayman28

That’s exactly what I was referring to.

We could be in for the long haul here.

Twebur
Super Member
4 months ago

I wish some math wiz would figure out….what is the total amount paid to all professional athletes in America under contract today (guaranteed money)….. Start off with the major 4 sports.

Cowboy26
Legend
4 months ago
Reply to  Twebur

From this site? You know Angel fans are too GA to perform important work like that.

WallyChuckChili
Super Member
4 months ago
Reply to  Charles Sutton

Golfers? Nascar Drivers?

rez2405
Trusted Member
4 months ago
Reply to  Charles Sutton

Bowlers? 😂

red floyd
Legend
4 months ago
Reply to  rez2405

Bridge players. Seriously, at one point there was an effort to get bridge as a demo “sport” at the SLC Winter Olympics.

Fansince1971
Legend
4 months ago

“Of the 120 teams that have had the same or lower winning percentage since the start of the wild-card era in 1995, only one has even reached .500.“

So you mean, there is a chance?! 😂

Biggiswrth
Trusted Member
4 months ago

Is anyone planning a write up of the draftees that we got? I’m interested in everyone’s take on how we did.

Also, any updates on guys on the farm? How have they been doing this year?

Cowboy26
Legend
4 months ago
Reply to  Biggiswrth

JJ had an interview with TBW 2 weeks where they discussed some of the minor leaguers .

admkir
Trusted Member
4 months ago
Reply to  Biggiswrth

I’d be interested in who signs and for how much (over/under slot)

Cowboy26
Legend
4 months ago
Reply to  admkir

So as of right now, 4 first round draftees that were taken before the Angels pick have reportedly come to terms with their teams. They are:

2nd pick Druw Jones . A high schooler who got his slot value of $8.18 million
3rd Pick Kumar Rocker a post college player who got under slot at $5.2 million ($7.587 million was the slot)
6th pick Jacob Berry a 4 yr college sophomore ( he must be a little slow) signed for very slightly below the slot value of $6.03 million
8th pick Brooks Lee a 4 yr college junior signed for about 230K over the slot value of $6.44 million.

Of course Rocker had little to no leverage after last years Mets debacle and injury concerns so that was to be expected. And with Jones being a high schooler he was going to hold out for at least slot value. But the Berry and Lee signings don’t portend well for the Angels getting our #1 pick ( 13th overall) under slot since both were equivalent aged players to Zach Neto who’s also a 4 year Junior. This failure will really cripple our chances to generate enough surplus funds to sign our only high schooler, Caden Dana instead of using the college trump card. Unless we think that by drafting his brother and maybe offering free blimp rides will really get it done.

gitchogritchoffmypettis
Legend
Reply to  Cowboy26

Gotta love it…

Demand SS – Draft SS at or below his expected slot – Pay drafted SS slot amount – Failure – Angry – PTP not real GM.

Demand SS – Draft SS that was rated #80 at #13 – Sign SS for less than slot – Sign HS player in 7th round – Arte is a cheap bastard – Failure – Angry – PTP not real GM.

Inevitable outcome….

CtPG guy = angry because he’s so smart
Billionaire and guy who has been in FOs forever = stupid

= Baseball gods hate this team.

Marcotor
Trusted Member
4 months ago

I have wondered why all the hand wringing over slot bonuses, like it’s their own money being spent. And maybe some day someone will explain how Arte is required to operate the business at a loss, just to have a payroll at a certain amount. 230M payroll? Ok, we’ll take 25MM from the dev side, and 10MM from stadium maintenance.

red floyd
Legend
4 months ago

comment image

The Halos did not lose last night! And I guarantee they will not lose tonight!

Cowboy26
Legend
4 months ago
Reply to  red floyd

*Unless they trade someone today.

Last edited 4 months ago by Cowboy26
Mia
Legend
Mia
4 months ago
Reply to  red floyd

It’s a good week to be Halo fans!

Brent
Trusted Member
4 months ago

https://twitter.com/markjburns88/status/1549782872839671808?s=20&t=zb8AiNwcFnzfBRiMlYf12w

This seems insanely off for basically everyone. I highly doubt beer only goes for $4.50 at even the cheapest option at the Big A. And parking has to be at least double that, right?

Marshallx89
Member
4 months ago
Reply to  Brent

They actually got the parking right – it is $10 at Angel Stadium. Though, the beer prices across the board are WAY too low. Beer at Angel Stadium is like $12 for domestic and $16 for craft I believe. Same for Padres.

Cowboy26
Legend
4 months ago
Reply to  Marshallx89

Maybe its also based upon average consumption so the average Angel fan consumes less beer than the higher priced fan experiences. So I guess what this means is the average Angel fan drinks less than other teams fans?

I kind of find that hard to believed with this stellar season.

Marshallx89
Member
4 months ago
Reply to  Cowboy26

That seems more reasonable – but the analysis assumes consumption of two beers. At least that what it says in the sub-headline.

Cowboy26
Legend
4 months ago
Reply to  Marshallx89

Per family or per inning?

Rallymanatee
Trusted Member
4 months ago
Reply to  Cowboy26

I’m such a cheapskate, I don’t usually even buy beer at the game. I wait till I’m home to drink my Kirkland Irish whiskey.

gitchogritchoffmypettis
Legend
Reply to  Brent

Just messin around with numbers… this will be totally wrong to a point, but if this chart is correct, when the Angels draw 3 Million people, they pull in 136.5 million bucks total from this. Of course you have to subtract all the operating costs, inventory costs, the percentage that ticket brokers, parking guys, or the city and state takes, etc. And of course this doesn’t include their TV deal or share of merch revenue.

But if taxes + everything else takes half of this that’s 68.25 million they make at the ball park. If the team sucks and they only draw 2.5 million that drops to 56.6 million. If a big chunk of that 2.5 million fans is 714 Ticket Ghosts that number gets even lower.

Now all these numbers are totally based on out the ass guesses taken from that chart. But it does show that there is a real cost to Arte when the team isn’t good. Add to that the team having gone through 2 Covid retarded seasons before this one….

You gotta wonder, are we at a point where Arte decides to cut bait now that the path to land ownership is muddled, or does he up the payroll and try to compete to get that profit margin up, or does he start payroll slashing to make up the shortfalls and trade Ohtani? He’s got to either draw more people or pay less money out.

Hint for Arte: Though it won’t fix things right away, the best funded analytics and development department in the world probably costs as much as you paid Cody Allen for half a season.

Note: I don’t give a shit about what ever “yeah but” you’re thinking of typing regarding numbers and income sources. The numbers are just to show that Arte really does take a large monetary hit when the team sucks enough to keep people away from the stadium. Whether the actual hit is 10M or 55M no one likes just letting that much money bleed away.

max
Trusted Member
max
4 months ago
Reply to  Brent

The parking prices are pretty suspect. Like why is parking in Seattle 17.61? Pretty sure it would be a nice round number, like 20 or 15.

red floyd
Legend
4 months ago
Reply to  max

Average of the public parking in the area.

max
Trusted Member
max
4 months ago
Reply to  red floyd

ah, ok

red floyd
Legend
4 months ago
Reply to  max

At least, that’s my theory and I’m sticking to it.

Jeff Joiner
Editor
Super Member
4 months ago
Reply to  Brent

Parking is spot on. However, they are missing a lot of context.

The Angels have a 4 tickets, 4 hot dogs, 4 sodas plan for $44 for most games. From watching MLB.TV I know many other franchises have something similar for at least a decent amount of games.

I also wonder how they calculated average ticket price. Average ticket to a Dodgers or Yanks game is much more expensive than a Tuesday night against the Rangers. Although that $32 looks about right as I often sit in Terrace Box seats or Terrace All Star seats and pay about that. (Being by the terrace is money with a 4 year old. Close to food, bathrooms, and the ability to walk around).

red floyd
Legend
4 months ago
Reply to  Jeff Joiner

I *HAVE* to sit in 100, 200, or 300. I have a severe fear of heights (more falling from heights) that the view level triggers. Unfortunately, I wind up paying through the nose for that.

UtahAlumnus
Trusted Member
4 months ago

Who the Angels draft doesn’t matter. Who they sign or trade or trade for, who gets fired and who’s hired as manger… none of that matters. It’s not the players or coaches. Not even the GM or other executives. It’s not the stadium or which city the team is named after. It’s not EVEN the TV announcers (yes not even those Apple TV+ dorks!).

The problem is culture and morale, which will never really change until the organization gets a new owner.

It’s no secret in MLB the current Angels ownership is dragging this team down. All the talent in the world won’t save it. The person at the top must change or it’ll be another two decades, before the Angels get to the postseason. And Ohtani and Trout (and even some of us) will be long gone.

Save the Angels, sell the team.

RexFregosi
Super Member
4 months ago
Reply to  UtahAlumnus

The Arte ‘must sell’ arguments are just like the ‘Fire Sosh’ argument a few years ago.

Ridiculous I think. How has replacing managers worked out – Was letting Sosh ride off to the sunset the answer to the team’s problems? (No, actually it’s much worse now)

Arte needs to up his game and adjust his approach but there’s absolutely no guarantee a new ownership group will magically spend the same on payroll as the Dodgers/Yankees and also create a player development infrastructure overnight to match the Rays/A’s.

I’m chilling and still have some optimism that Perry can get this going right again.

halofansince1978
Trusted Member
4 months ago
Reply to  RexFregosi

How has replacing managers worked out – Was letting Sosh ride off to the sunset the answer to the team’s problems? (No, actually it’s much worse now.)

You just made my day Rex. Thank you for this dose of reality!!!

PedroCerrano
Trusted Member
4 months ago

I was thinking the same the other day when Sosh was mentioned. I was anti Sosh and pro-Maddon hire but in hindsight perhaps my couch GM skills aren’t great. I’ve managed people and believe in a three ring bullseye of Core Values, Culture and what we do. The Angel way that Sosh brought from the old Dodger way was very similar. I don’t hear anyone from the Angels talking about one approach or being anywhere near an over-riding organizational philosophy.

Cowboy26
Legend
4 months ago
Reply to  PedroCerrano

Maddon was the Angel way. He was an integral part of the organization that was responsible for the development of the core of the 2002 World Series champions ( and beyond)

I dont really blame Soggy Joe for the current demise. What ever influence he had on this current team does not appear to be as detrimental as the regime management has now elected to leave in place.

gitchogritchoffmypettis
Legend
Reply to  Cowboy26

I think that team culture grows out of the soil of it’s fans. Owner, POBO, manager, players…. water that soil with a constant stream of piss instead of water and you get floppy wilted plants.

red floyd
Legend
4 months ago

What is this “POBO” of which you speak?

gitchogritchoffmypettis
Legend
Reply to  red floyd

It’s a guy who does the same thing as a GM…. just don’t call him a GM… cause the same team will also have a GM…. just don’t say “Hey, isn’t this the same as having a GM and AGM but with different titles?”. That’s fake news.

JackFrost
Super Member
4 months ago
Reply to  Cowboy26

Totally agree.

Cowboy26
Legend
4 months ago
Reply to  RexFregosi

From 2004 to 2009 the Angels won 5 division titles, went to 2 ALCS, and averaged 94.5 wins per season. Wouldn’t you say that was a winning culture, Ute? Yet it was the same dastardly owner as we have now.

You can praise the now retired Sosh but he did not build the rosters, draft the players or run their minor league system. There is no reason that Arte who is now staring head on at the potential loss of a generational talent, a fleeing fan base (despite the published totals), an ineffective coaching and management staff and a depleted farm and development system can’t step up and again provide the team with the resources they truly need to bring that winning culture back to Anaheim. Even if Arte is planning on selling the franchise I have to believe the value would increase proportionally to its success.

Hell the Angels are still wheeling out Bill Stoneman for ceremonial functions, why doesn’t Arte just ask him what he should do? I doubt it would be the same shit show we’ve been experiencing over the last 12 plus years. So if he’s not selling the franchise anytime soon ( which he isn’t) its time to spend some real money again and get back to the glory days before Arte bites the big one.

steelgolf
Super Member
4 months ago
Reply to  Cowboy26

First step to this teams demise was Carlton firing Eddie Bane.

Cowboy26
Legend
4 months ago
Reply to  steelgolf

No the first step to our demise was Carlton’s ascension.

When Stoneman retired that was game over.

steelgolf
Super Member
4 months ago
Reply to  Cowboy26

Point taken, the firing of Eddie was the 2nd step.

SC_Halo
Trusted Member
4 months ago
Reply to  RexFregosi

Arte needs to invest more on the baseball side and let those investments run the baseball side. Arte “getting out of the way” doesn’t necessarily mean sell the team.

gitchogritchoffmypettis
Legend
Reply to  RexFregosi

I can promise all of you that a new ownership group will NOT spend anywhere close to the Dodgers, Red Sox or Yankees. Not long term. Maybe if they are dying like an Illich, or a megalomaniac like Cohen, they will do it for a few years, but the Riverside Angels of Irvine will never have the long term payroll of those teams.

And you’re right. It could take two or three more years to see if Perry is actually making significant progress on the FO building front, 2020/21 probably slowed that down some. It won’t be instant. This is apparently unacceptable.

Rallymanatee
Trusted Member
4 months ago
Reply to  RexFregosi

Totally agree. We simply have run out of scapegoats. They started with GMs, then Soth’s coaching staff, then Soth himself, then more GMs, then the training staff, then more managers…The only person left to blame is Arte, so we’re gonna blame Arte. It’s only natural.

But if he sells the team, the same thing will happen with the new guy/girl that happened when he took over. We’d be initially excited. They’ll make a big splash with some stunt like lowering beer prices. They’ll sign an exciting player or two. But the chances are, it will probably all dwindle into familiarity and contempt again once the sheen wears off.

The fact is, there is no possible way Arte is to blame for a team that started 27-17 and then went 12-36. And there is no possible way Arte is to blame for injuries.

Out of curiosity, I did a quick search on who Mariners and Phillies fans blame because they have longer playoff droughts than the Angels. Guess what you find? Surprise! They blame the owners and front office!

Senator_John_Blutarsky
Super Member
4 months ago
Reply to  UtahAlumnus

It’s good to have a dream.

jefeRey14x
Member
4 months ago
Reply to  UtahAlumnus

Or, like, Tony comes back.

Jim Atkins
Super Member
4 months ago
Reply to  UtahAlumnus

The Halos need to revamp the front office completely. This crony-based management model doesn’t work against a modern baseball management system. If Arte can’t see that, he needs to get out of the business, take his massive capital gain, and go home to Phoenix.

Marshallx89
Member
4 months ago
Reply to  Jim Atkins

Agreed – it seems like one of the biggest reasons for the decline is that teams have recognized the importance of a strong FO and invested in it. These teams have high success rates in developing major prospects and hitting on key FA signings. The Angels seem to swing and miss on this part of the game more often than not.

Jayman28
Trusted Member
4 months ago
Reply to  Jim Atkins

You know he won’t

gitchogritchoffmypettis
Legend
Reply to  UtahAlumnus

It’s the evil…. Moreno Malvado is there…. his breath rasping…. the sweet creamy culture curdling under it’s heat…. the horror, the horror…. oh the drama of it all.

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GrandpaBaseball
Super Member
4 months ago

There are definitely two ways of looking at this. Your way of thinking, if I understand correctly, is that it does not really matter if Arte is the owner, suggesting that Arte, as the owner, has little to do with each year’s outcome.

A second way of looking at this is that Arte has everything to do with the yearly W-L outcomes.

It certainly is a perplexing question; just how much does Arte’s ownership have to do with the eventful season and the eventual ending of the season. Would new ownership do better? What would new owners keep things the same or be like McCourt and tear the team apart and drain the team dry of talent and then move on.

Leaning towards new ownership would mean that one must think the new ways of doing business would be the answer towards a new winning culture. The old ways only producing upside down W-L records, wasting Trout and Shohei’s careers and of course that it is fair to add, pissing off the team’s fans at CTPG.

Let’s be honest, with how under Arte’s leadership we have observed very little positive leadership. If not for Mike Trout, there would be not much keeping the Angels afloat, after all who wants to see a bunch of AAA players at major league prices?

I do not see a bright future for the team with how the Angels have painted themselves into a corner. I won’t ever give up on the team, but losing pretty much stinks, but in the next few years and with Trout not able to play because of constant injuries and Shohei leaving for greener pastures, what is the attraction?

So do I think people can learn from their mistakes, well, yes I do. Can Arte do the same, now that’s doubtful in my eyes, but maybe in the next few years he may do just that, it is possible, so yea, I’ll wait for it and hope that Arte will learn to be better at leading us to the playoffs. But at my age I will move on after a couple more losing seasons just because it is more fun to watch grass grow than being frustrated with how dumb the rich can act.

WallyChuckChili
Super Member
4 months ago

We should trade owners with the As.

We will suck but make the playoffs every 5 years for a couple years.

Win!

RexFregosi
Super Member
4 months ago

Yep – get us an owner that says the right things, then plans on moving the team to VEGAS.

That’s the A’s Owner – EXACTLY what could happen with a new owner.

Says the right things, then the stadium talks don’t go anywhere, and he says exactly what the A’s owner is saying.

Vegas baby!

gitchogritchoffmypettis
Legend

Good observations. To clarify my butter…

1) The owner does matter, sort of. There isn’t a team out there (even teams with POBOs) where the owner isn’t involved with the plan that establishes the day to day ops. He also has all the money. So yeah, he/she/they have some influence.

But as I’ve said a thousand times. There are crap owners with good teams. Cheap owners with winners. Owner’s I’d consider smart with crappy teams. Heavily involved owners and totally absent owners who both win and lose. Same with teams with POBOs and GMs that CoachDad likes. Though CtPG guy may think he can, owners can’t control players being injured nor can he force a player who has decided to suck to be good.

I’d say, other than just allowing a competitive payroll, the ownership has about 10% influence on if a team wins.

2) Most of this “the culture” bullshit is using unquantifiable vapor to justify emotional demands for physical results. Like a dark ages Jesuit questioning the heresy he sees in a wealthy landowner, or a mid-century Soviet commissar pondering how counter revolutionary that guy with a hot wife is. Amazballs! Teams that win have “good culture” and teams that lose don’t.

3) Consistency and adjustment are how you bungle your way into winning…. and having at least enough money to keep some good players. As a long time Steelers fan I know this. Believe it or not, in the 80s and early 90s, the Rooneys had a “bad culture that needs to be replaced if the Steelers are ever going to be good again…”

Arte screws up. Especially, in my eyes, when it comes to the farm and scouting. But he never screws up past a point where, if the f***ing players he pays would stay healthy and do their f***ing jobs we wouldn’t at least compete. Other than say 2016-17. He also never actually screws up by just laying back and collecting money…. he’s screws up trying.

But constantly chasing this manager, no wait, that one, and these free agents, no, wait, these ones, no wait, all of them, and we need to get rid of three GMs, then hire THIS GM, then hire a POBO (though no one on here can explain to me what the difference between a POBO and a GM who had an assistant he didn’t want to lose is) isn’t gonna do shit.

And changing owners? That guarantees nothing accept that we changed owners.

I say stick with PTP. It seems like Arte’s been largely out of his way for most of his tenure. Let PTP develop. See what happens with the farm and the types of FAs he brings in, etc. Don’t hyperventilate over every detail. Don’t call in ghost hunters to try and measure how much good baseball culture exists in the office building. Arte’s got the funds. Just let em bang away till they get it right.

If you want a good example of this, watch what happens with the laughing stock Rockies over the next couple of years….

4) He’s the owner. He’s rich. Boo f***in hoo. Nothing we can do about it, so work with what we’ve got or be a simpering bitch about it. Those are the choices we’re stuck with.

GrandpaBaseball
Super Member
4 months ago

I believe like you that PTP is doing a great job, and we can agree that Arte has allowed this team to jettison F.O. personnel at great expense to Scouting and Player Development. And yes we could end up with someone even worse than what we have, kind of be careful what you wish for.

But you will probably agree with me if I believe that Arte has now had 7 bad seasons and if it’s not working, change what you are doing. I really do believe Arte does not know what he is doing. He is directly responsible for the signing of Albert, Hamilton, and Rendon. I believe he was in full knowledge of what was going on in the minor leagues.

This next off season will be interesting in what he gives his blessings to do with who is signed-not signed and who is traded.

I am 60% he sells – 40% hold on.

Cowboy26
Legend
4 months ago

If Arte wants to keep Shohei ( BTW I dont think he will trade him this year or next) This offseason will be most telling. Arte has no choice. He will have to go over the CBT for the first time in 19 years in order have any hope of a winning season.

gitchogritchoffmypettis
Legend
Reply to  Cowboy26

It would also show us he will at least offer Shohei a large extension. If you’re gonna up the payroll in 23 or 24 then you might as well just get on with it. He won’t up it to 250 or something pre-Shohei, but say he goes and spends 30M on Adam Frazier, Chad Kuhl and Trevor Williams instead of cutting payroll… then he likely plans to try to pay Ohtani and have a payroll around 250M… at least through Rendon’s contract.

Same same if he were to extend Sandoval early…. the tax is going up. It’s at 230 now, will be higher by the time Shohei’s contract gets massive, say 260M is the tier 2 threshold by then, or even 250. It’s only 2% more tax than tier 1. But if you know you’re gonna want a guy like Sandy for a five or six year push you might as well lock him up.

FungoAle
Super Member
4 months ago

Perry’s epic failure this year might not cost him his job but if he duplicates something similar next year or falls short of the expanded post-season, he’s porked.