Good morning Angels fans! How are you today? That bad huh? Have some links.
Angels News
Angels vs the Dodgers in Los Angeles round two is tonight. After round 1 ended in an Angels loss, this game is crucial.
Tomorrow, the Angels face the Mariners for the first time this season. Wait, that can’t be right. How did that happen? Who makes these schedules, why did it take until mid June to face the Mariners?!
Oh great, Bowtie at the Athletic discusses what the Angels should do with Ohtani. If you can’t read it, basically if the Angels miss the playoffs this year, Ohtani will leave one way or another.
Taylor Ward is back! Here is a SI article on his journey to a starter.
Around Baseball
Fox Sports showed the wrong first pitch of Dodgers at Giants and thought no one would notice. Like, why? If they just showed no first pitch it would be way less obvious.
Pitch clock down in the minors is doing its job. Nearly 25 minute game time decrease. This might mean it will be implemented next year. 1982 was the last time the average game time was 2:35.
Strasburg is back! Oh wait, nevermind, back to IL for you.
Ryu is out for the season with an arm injury. Injuries are really piling up for pitchers this year.
Speaking of injuries, Tatis Jr. is still not healthy enough to even swing a bat. That giant contract of his is a relief for him with how much time he has missed in his career already.
There was a tornado warning in Chicago. Yu Darvish didn’t care though.
A couple of Athletic paywall articles to check out if you have it. Assault is ignored in the MiLB. Liam Hendricks very much cares about LGBT. Oh, right, he is ALSO injured.
Anything I missed? Post below for upvotes.
Two quotes from an excellent Baseball Reference article that explain what most of us have been alluding to. The interesting thing about the first quote is that only Arte holds the ability to lower the % of payroll that Trout and Rendon represent by raising the budget.
Both points underscore why I think the team has to trade Ohtani who is unlikely to sign in Anaheim. Maybe Eppler and the Mets would be a good trade partner as Ohtani came to Anaheim partly due to his relationship with Eppler.
“The Angels’ payroll is oddly structured. According to Spotrac, both Trout ($37.1 million) and Anthony Rendon ($36.6 million) account for more than 19 percent of the club’s total salaries each. Serious contenders don’t typically have such top-heavy payrolls. To wit, only two teams since 2011 have made it to the World Series with 19 percent of their payrolls tied up in just one player: the 2019 Washington Nationals (Scherzer) and 2020 Tampa Bay Rays (Charlie Morton). The Angels have two such players.”
“Neither Trout nor Rendon will come off the books and free up space for an Ohtani megadeal any time soon. Both are under contract through at least 2026, and their salaries loom so large that the Angels currently have more money committed to 2025 than any other team.”
We are a just a poorly run team and organization. Duffy when he plays always bats cleanup which is stupid. He’s the perfect guy to use as a competent bat to extend the lineup. Also Adell came up and raked during his last stint so if Marsh is going to sit vs lefties why is Lagares here? Spare me the play everyday in AA excuse. Adell is already better than Lagares and that’s without even factoring in upside.
Actually I get the whole R-L-R-L deal .. it makes it difficult on the other side to counter late in the game.
I get what you’re saying but….. well at least he hits the ball
Boy – you really showed us tonight calling out someone for complaining about Duffy as a clean up hitter. LMFAO. Dude has no place batting cleanup on a major League roster … Was a scrub on a 90 loss team last year and now “the best hitter” on a team who can also lose 90. Woof
What! WHAT! POORLY RUN!!!! I’ll have you know that Artie Moreno runs this team with a stern and iron fist, and he knows what he’s doing, he’s a kazillionaire, he must know what he’s doing because he has the two best player’s in the game. You, you, you can’t say mis- mismanaged or poorly run, oh my chest, my ches………
I don’t come to CtPG for the in-depth analysis, the hot takes, or even the recommendations, whether they be the “Arte sell the team!” type or the “Your reaction is dumb because Perry doesn’t read this” type.
Truthfully I come here to feel comfort in knowing I’m not the only numbskull in the world that can’t seem to stop getting hurt by this team. Somehow it brings peace to my soul.
It is a roller coaster ride all the time being an Angels fan. In ’61 we were compared unfairly with the team in Blue, then in ’62 we thought we were really going to long term winners and then the bubble popped. In ’67 we were in the race with Boston, Detroit, Minnesota, and Chicago until late August and that blew up, although we knocked the Tigers out of the race on the last day of the season. In the 70’s it was a dream that Ryan and Tanana take us to the WS and then in ’79 Baylor led the way for more dreams. The 80’s we were sure that we would be on top of the world with Grich, Reggie, Baylor, Carew, and a lot of great to very good players, but twice we were kicked in the nuts by Boston, after helping them in ’67. Later came Wally World and then the nineties and we sometimes were good and sometimes not so much. The 2000’s were the best decade with the winning WS team and having competitive teams almost every year. Who will ever forget the ’09 team? Then came Trouty and in ’14 we were the best team in the league but again broken hearted.
Roller Coaster ride, but it is at times thrilling. The last 7 or 8 have been the most heart breaking without a doubt. I was very sure and had no doubts that after ’04 we would win several WS, but I don’t ever switch teams just for the sake of being a front runner, no I hang in and keep hoping.
Nishiogawakun…… I feel your pain…..!
What probably really hurts guys like you is that you do it to yourself. Like a woman with daddy issues. She needs to stop going to Trevor’s house and getting her face punched. You need to stop watching Angels games if they make you sad. Both you and Trevor’s stripper girlfriend are hurt more by what this tells you about yourself than the actual “hurting”.
I had a wonderful night. Me and a couple guys lifted weights, the game was on the radio, nothing happened to I ignored it. Then I made some dinner, watched The Expanse. Checked in on the game a few times. Decided it was not worthy of the glorious light of my attention, and watched more SciFi that doesn’t suck.
Then I tried to draw a centipede made of skulls. It looks like crap. Checked the game, saw Ohtani get a hit, sighed, looked at my craptopede, sighed again, and went on with my life.
Nobody’s doing anything to you bruh.
Ayup. I watched for an inning and a half. Then watched something on Netflix with my beautiful wife. Checked back on the game. It was now 4-0. Decided I don’t care. Took the dogs for a walk. Are some popcorn while watching a comedy.
We have no real vested interest in this team. They are not our friends. The players don’t give a shit about us. We make no money from success and lose no money from failure. Uniforms are just laundry. Put different laundry on any player – including Trout – and we would not like him. So why let his daily performance (and that of the others) decide your moods.
Gitcho – you’re right. Psychotic but right (Animal House). We all need appropriate boundaries as fans and we need to stop caring so much about something over which we have no control and about players who don’t even know who we are and wouldn’t come to help if we were in need.
Figures of speech mi amigo. But thanks for giving me a breakdown of your evening. 🙂
No Wade or Mayfield in the lineup!
W/S had 22 hits today, about a week’s worth for some teams, must be the food spread before game time, plenty of carbs and sugar.
Hey remember when some of the big brained folks on here not too long ago lauded DiPoto because he built this all mighty empire in Seattle?
Fun times lol .. thats what I turn too when I
get depressed of our situation ….
Mocking them just in time for a 5 game series this weekend.
See. This is what happens when moms start “encouraging” their kids to play “safer” sports like soccer. Before you know it you have a whole generation of candy assed bitch boys who never grew up with a completely logical and well founded sense of abject fear when it comes to jinxes.
Next thing you know you are paying a lot of money to help China take over the world, destroy the environment and build slave labor camps because it would just be too hard to not buy Apple and have people who buy Apple see that you didn’t buy Apple.
Obviously soccer = Supporting Fascists, and fascism loves jinxes.
I think everyone can see this and agrees. No need to reply.
Soccer isn’t safe….heading the ball causes concussion. Not an approved
CTE-Free-Sport.
Mother approved “Wii Sports” is the way to go. Inside, well filtered air conditioning, don’t get over heated, also might cause CTE. Take a break when the Wii tells you too, go outside, make sure you have on your water-prof SPF 50 sunscreen.
I’ve been encouraged to act like an elitist on this board whenever posts such as this come about.
Henceforth.. here here.. what is this chap down in stewage yapping about? I can’t hear him from up here! Such a shame.. anyways back to our brandy…..
Watch them beat us 4 out of 5, lol.
You think we’ll steal a game?
Hey Jack.. you can’t kill what’s already dead 😉
*taps forehead*
True enough….
He does that, he can’t help himself, jinks is just some silly cat that is after Dixie and Pixie.
Careful, they are better than their record. Logan Gilbert and Rodriquez playing well.
Went to Jack in Box today…Free Cheeseburger with a Doyers win and 10 K’s. Nice young lady asked me, did they win? Of course they won, they played the Angels. Did they have 10 or more strikeouts? Please, of course they did, again they played the Angels. The Angels can have 10 K’s by the 6th on a good night………took my order and I told her “I will see you tomorrow.”
Like the Laker deals. When the opponent scored under 100-points, 2 free tacos with a drink. JIB kept raising the point threshold during the year cuz the Lakers were a poor team. Tried so hard to give those tacos away.
“Doomah”!!!
By the way; it does not matter that you are using facts and speaking truth. According to a few people here you are still a “Doomer.”
Free Cheeseburgers! It’s the only thing I get out of this relationship!
I don’t think it’s the facts that make a person a Doomah. It’s that they are an asshole and, like most assholes, all they can do is shit on things. One tone, one color, always brown and smelly.
Gee, I hope you wear strong deodorant. Otherwise you would have to smell yourself !!!
💩
About the only good thing i can think of about the Doyers. Their promo is with JitB. Ours is with f***ing Chick-fil-a.
Perry fired Joe Maddon on the day that Joe got a mohawk haircut to end the losing streak.
Can’t help but feel sorry for Joe. He didn’t have an opportunity to show it to the team.
Who knows what could have happened if Joe walked into the clubhouse with a mohawk? It might have loosened the guys up enough to play a better brand of baseball.
We’ll never know because Perry fired him on the day Joe got his mohawk.
We should have seen it coming. Joe was not Perry’s guy. Joe couldn’t keep his coaching staff at the start of the season. Joe, supposedly, wasn’t enough of an “analytics” manager to make Perry happy. And, Perry did not extend Joe’s contract.
Perry used the 12 game losing streak as a perfect opportunity to fire Joe. He wasn’t going to keep him around after the season anyway.
Perry made a “personnel” decision to fire Joe instead of a baseball decision. I mean he used the losing streak to get rid of the guy he didn’t want instead of doing what was best for the team.
In retrospect, looking back, keeping Joe to the end of the season offered the team the best chance of making the playoffs.
Is there really anyone out there who believes that Phil Nevin is the answer?
Phil is not the analytics guy that Perry wants to run the team either.
At the end of the season, barring a World Series appearance, Phil will be gone, too.
Nevin is gone at this years end. Ray Montgomery is the real plan. Get onboard.
Dont feel sorry for Joe. He’s fine, he is a legend (in his own mind).
So thats why Perry was in tears that day.
Perry should have been in tears….. He made a selfish decision that was not in the best interest of the team.
Agree here. Joe gave us our best chance at the postseason. And until June, he was progressing well towards that goal.
On thee Arte sells front, what if the prospective buyer were to enter negotiations with both Arte and the city of Anaheim to purchase both the Angels and the property at the same time
Dillon Thomas is an Astro.
In short, Perry jettisoned a guy the Astros wanted, sent Adell down to AAA, and left Nevin with Wade, Rengifo, Mayfield, Duffy, and Squid all on the roster.
I’m, like, aghast at the idea Minasian knows what he’s doing.
There are a lot of facets to being a GM. So far I’ve liked most of Perry’s player acquisitions but his roster management is lacking.
Hopefully this is a learning experience for him.
Wade, Mayfield can all be set free never to return, we would be better off without them because the Angels like Rengifo, rather he play over either of them. Anything Wade or Mayfield can do Rengifo is as good.
But, Dillon Thomas is a 30 year old career minor leaguer….who gives a crap if he is here, in Salt Lake or in Houston?
With that said, with certainty I predict he will do damage against us at some point this season.
Free Da Plumber. Leaky pipes and all
you should note that Stefanic’s .337 compares to Squid’s .313 at SLC.
Yes and you should note I did not stay at a Holiday Inn last night. But I’m not sure how Squid’s 16 AB’s at AAA this year are relevant to anything.
Good point on the small sample. Rengifo was also at .313 with 99 atbats. The Plumbers minor league numbers won’t translate into mlb stats but, like you, I think he should come up and be playing
It’s not comparable. Odd he has not gotten an chance to start given the middle infield shit-show.
Rengifo is not in Wades class as a fielder, Wade is not anything than what he was signed for, this is as a backup. Mayfield is a AAA player, as is Rengifo. Duffy is a singles hitter who knows his roll and that is as at a backup roll. When you are signed with the Angels you will get a lot of playing time. tRadiTion.
All three suck, it’s a redundancy on top of a redundancy..They all play the OF and IF (none of it well) don’t need all three, Rengifo wins by a nose over Mayfield. Wade in the lineup every night hurts my eyes.
Here FIFY: “All
threefive suck,”You inadvertently left off Ren-Hee-Haw-Blow & The Squid and his recently elusive defense.
Why are we putting up with such low standards?
Team payroll cap.
Then sell the team.
Have you told the billionaire who owns the team you’re tired of his shit and you just don’t see why you should have to put up with him anymore? Maybe demand that he overspend on payroll for gah knows how long because fan stands for fanatic?
should work.
I will the next time I talk to him but it’s been a few years .
Just call and tell em you own a huge parcel of lands and meadows in Los Angeles County you want to sell for sixty dollars.
This is why I’d go for a Plummer attempt. I have no reason to believe in the Plummer cause everyone rakes in SLC, and he’s not gonna replace Squid cause he can’t play short. But I’m willing to “risk” life without Wade, just like I’m pretty sure my heart will go one without Dillon Thomas. I think it’s a perfect time to try the Plummer so we can all turn on him when he hits .230 with a couple errors. It will also be fun if he turns out to be Dustin Pedroia.
Hurt a lot? 😂
It reminds me of the Lakers who signed a ton of crappy guards and nothing else. They needed to at least spread out the crappy at all the required positions.
It’s really pretty simple.
Is the farm system better? Yes.
Is this roster better than the last couple? Yes.
Are the players playing to their norms? No.
The answer? Obviously the owner is doing this.
Also, Oligarch. Say Oligarch even if you don’t really know what an Oligarch is.
I hope you’re right, but how much longer do we have to wait for him to learn?
Overpaying for under performing bullpen pieces (my goodness, he whiffed on every one of them), bringing in scrubs to man the middle infield, and forcing his managers to play Juan Lagares are all on the negative side of the ledger. Taking a diminished Snydergaard on a fairly expensive one-year contract seems neutral. I don’t believe he is a long-term play unless he turns up the heat in the second half. Lorenzen has been a win so far. The overall grade is not passing since the finished product is, well, unfinished.
And Lagares – who is the player that should have been jettisoned in favor of keeping Thomas (at least on the 40-man).
So when Dillon Thomas gets DFA’d in a couple of weeks by the Asstros I’m not sure it will really matter.
Dilly is a saint!
Didn’t know he played football as well. 😂
Saint Bernard!
I can’t believe we’d even have Jo Adell, Taylor Ward and Dillon Thomas on the roster! These are not MLB players! PTP is a puppet who’s in over his head!
Oh… are we not doing that now? It was cool in April……
😂
I am not sure we are going to miss Dillon Thomas. But the larger point is why did Wade play in CF a few days ago instead of Marsh? (and why Adell could not have stayed up a couple days longer until Ward came back?)
My only guess is LF is “Marsh’s position”. We don’t want Trout to start getting jumpy…
It’s still only June. Maybe it’s just time for the Angels to put it into second gear.
Lollygaggers!
Perfect reference for right now. Love that scene.
I would like to see them win today. Fairly low expectations but let the end result be a W. Is this too much to ask?
Dodgers (-195).
In this case, YES!
Arturo Moreno is not a fan of Baseball in any of its forms. He makes decisions because he does not pay for a President of Baseball Operations and pays himself. His only focus is the bottom line. He will never see the value of paying more to win, he wins now with bringing in money. Why spend another 50 million? With the 2 biggest draws in the game, mission accomplished. Once he makes up his mind there is no changing it, period. He does not want an experienced POBO or GM as he will be arguing too much, and after all it is his team.
If selling is what you would like to be around for, I don’t see happening for a year or two as he enjoys the cash coming in. Plus he wants to have his own stadium to lease back to the team. This man is very smart and don’t ever think it’s not so. To make big money does not mean you have to win, he has proven this for 20 years now.
So true. He had this team handed to him and it was the only way he could remain a billionaire. If there was any other way for him to make loads of money he would do it because he is not a baseball fan, but he’s trapped between his disdain for baseball and his greed. He is also incapable of changing his mind, which is why Joe is still managing, Upton’s in left, none of our MiLB guys are developing and he still wears bolo ties every day.
Good points you mention, how about bringing in new folks to replace his VP’s, or increasing payroll, how long was he underpaying to take care of business for the minor league kids, and yes, he did inherit a winning team and soon started cutting corners elsewhere to pay for his high payroll choices. As guess on my part, it seems to have become noticeable after 2009. Cutting back on all levels of scouting, investing in player development, and you want to be sarcastic that I’m completely wrong. Other than in player payroll and ticket and concession price, where did he raise the spending threshold? On experienced GM and Asst. GM’s? Or maybe in scouting? Player development? Drafting? Experienced PxP announcers? He was forced into spending maybe more money in the minors, but he did get to cut one team from the Angels minor league roster, so there is that. He was not a Billionaire prior to purchasing the Angels. And he is a lot smarter than many here believe him to be. But as having a hand in building this team to be a winner and really caring he has more than a decade to prove that and he has failed at that while still making money. Disdain for the sport is not exactly what was written by me, but it comes before building a winner as he has shown. I don’t want him to sell, but it sure would work better if he could learn from his mistakes, but alas he does not see it as mistakes because it’s about the money.
I would feel like we’d won some sort of championship if he’d just get rid of KuhlPino. Other than EastCoastBazeball love I don’t really even have a well formed reason why I dislike those guys and for all I know it would change nothing to fire them. But I still want them to go away.
There is a point that we can agree on, but maybe not stop at just one and try for the top two.
I’d argue the opposite. Arte loves baseball. So much he thinks he knows the game and can be a GM. And because he’s the owner, nobody can tell him otherwise.
At a certain point you’d think he’d look at the results his moves for Pujols, Hamilton, and Rendon have gotten him and think “maybe I need to hire somebody to help me.”
I keep holding out hope each GM will be it. So far, Perry’s spending and drafting haven’t matched up with previous regimes. And he’s gotten rid of Pujols and Upton along with Maddon.
Please, let this be the GM that actually has control. Now comes the part of hoping the GM is actually good.
Yes, Arte does love baseball but loves being an owner even more. Arte and Jerry Jones are one in the same. Always making bad decisions just to show that they are smarter than everyone else in the room. Rengifo could’ve been a Dodger if it wasnt for Arte.
Was that the Jockstrap trade?
Grandpa, are you joining the group you like to call The Doomers? Because you just said exactly what I’m thinking.
Good point you make, but I believe PTP really did a good overall job of putting this team together, he covered all the teams needs and stayed within his allotted budget. What I mentioned during Spring Training was staying healthy and everyone, especially Trout having big years and we would be winners. Well, the best laid plans of….never mind, you are fully aware of the crash and burn. I’m only giving my opinion that some decisions need to be made next month and beyond about the real direction this team needs to make, and that includes the owner. The Owner shows his contempt to making a real winning team by for years short changing and cutting corners, to having a real winning team.
No dooming here based on PTP’s budget and who was available on the cheap. Wade and Capt. Jack and Rengifo have under performed. Squid was not supposed to be a starter but a back up. Everyone here posted there ideas of who should have been signed to play SS. Most of those choices have failed also in one way or another this year btw. I think Thor was a good pick up, but not at 21 mil per. But pitching is always at a premium, especially in July (coming up, right) and again in the off season.
If I project being a Doomer it should be noted that I think we should be sellers next month. We have too many needs to plug all the holes and still have enough players for the future. We need at least one catcher, one ML hitting ss and keeping Squid as the backup, one OF’er capable of playing the corners. Two or three but settling for one very good relief pitcher with long term future.
I am really bummed at what has broken down, but PTP would have been exulted if the injuries did not take the team down followed by hitting, pitching and fielding taking a huge dump out on the field. It’s time for Adell to come up and play for his career in the next 5 weeks. Time to make a very expensive trade with Oakland for a starter, or one with the Reds for a starter. Time to pull a rabbit out of the hat for a relief pitcher or two and find an OF’er to play almost full time as Ward and Trout will go down shortly. (Mancini or Hays from Balt.) Otherwise trade for youth and trade away the tradeable pieces and rebuild.
Doomer, that is up to you guys if I am one. I don’t whine and complain much and when I do I try to come up with a solution.
Pitch clock and robo umps will make it so much better for Angels fans because the calls will be better and the pain of losing will be much shorter.
It’s true. A bunch of the CtPG CoachDads can get an episode of Matlock in before bed after the game before they doze off. Moods will elevate.
I’d rather Rosenthal start writing articles about prospective buyers for the Angels if we’re going to have serious convos about trading Trout and Ohtani.
The Marlins signed Stanton knowing they weren’t gonna be there to deal with the fallout so Arte could do the same. Perhaps signing Ohtani is the first clue Arte’s gonna get out.
Probably fitting that this Angels owner has been given the proverbial “born on third base” advantage of having 2 generational players yet can’t bring them home to score.
DO NOT TRADE TROUT! Must TRY to KEEP OHTANI. Most of the offensive talent is there! Need 1-2 infielders who are decent hitters (Fletch coming back) and 1-2 bullpen arms. Bachman can be one of them !
Much of the talent we need is here in the org; Ky Bush and Bachman etc..
Arte needs to fire himself. Most important factor for our success is that ARTE SELL THE TEAM !!!
When owners in the past wanted to sell and get out they shaved payroll down to almost nothing, but in this case that won’t happen because Ruth/Gehrig only come around once every 50 years. They are what makes the Halos value over 2 B$ and he will be most happy golfing or playing shuffleboard or whatever. But what if he sells to that creep who owns Facebook, then we find another team I guess.
Can’t see that, Also, I don’t think any owner will be worse than him! In any case, as long as not Zuckerfuck I will take my chances !!
Elon Musk?
Who ever buys the team, they will be rich and will likely have a say in who is on the team POBO ORNO. So fans with daddy issues will still be unhappy.
The same type of guy who is on this board’s on the Pittsburgh Steelers site too… all over it…. complaining about something, and it’s hard to find a more stable FO in sports than that.
Those bitches use the same excuse too, “It’s not that I can’t live without complaining all the time, it’s that I’m a REAL FAN and FAN is short for fanatic dontcha kno.”
Actually yes! He would not be cheap, he is young and has a screw convention, winner’s mentality!
Hell yes !!
I can see it now. “Ohtani Flamethrower Giveaway Night” for the first 20,000 people.
I’d go to the game for that.
How about Steve Ballmer?
He would be fantastic! I would LOVE that !!
Then all he would need to is buy the Ducks and he would own 3 of the 4 second-fiddle teams in LA.
Maybe the Spanos family is looking to sell the Chargers, then he can have all 4!
The Chargers will be for sale within the next 2 years.
https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/chargers-owner-dean-spanos-sued-by-sister-for-financially-ruinous-business-family-rebuts-false-charges/
Who knew, but Dean does seem overwhelmed in running a team that did want to join with another broke dick team and build a stadium on top of a toxic waste cesspool.
Well, I do question how well run the Lakers are. So out of 8 major sports league teams here in LA area, only 2 seem to have it together really, and they both own their own stadiums……hmm
I wonder how he feels about that.
You want an owner who actually cares about winning?
You are looking at him in this picture!!
What does this look say?
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I just woke up from napping at my desk at the office and man I really need a shower.
I can tell by all the huge rings on his fingers… oh, wait…
Give him time. The team HAS made improvements under his ownership. This past season was lost in advance when his TWO BEST PLAYERS missed the whole season (Kawai) or a lot of it (Paul George).
WTF have they won since Ballmer took over? Oh yeah, not a GD thing. Just goes to show that throwing money at a problem, or in this case a team, does not guarantee success. If that were the case, the doyers of MFY would win the WS every year.
Even with their move to Inglewood, the Clippers will always be the JV team in LA in terms of the NBA.
They made it to the Western Conference Finals for the first time in their history. And yes, that IS a step in the right direction.
Wait, throwing money at a problem doesn’t work?
Just asking for a few major world powers.
Both “Wow and “Yikes”. 😂 I don’t know whether to laugh or cry out, but I’ll laugh at the meaning there.
Frank McCourt and Jeff Loria say hello.
We have 0% chance of knowing if a new owner will suck or not. There aren’t FA tampering rules for ownership sales, so Arte’d actually be able to find out if interested new owners like The Murdochs or DeBeers or King Leopold of Belgium want Trout n Ohtani’s contracts around.
I agree. I think as fans we are all upset over what has happened and just want to trade everyone which from a fan standpoint is understandable. No reason to trade Trout since his contract is along ways from expiring. If this was six years from now I would say get what you can for him. As far as Ohtani, I wouldn’t trade him right now either. The only time you would trade him is next July if the team stinks again. Hopefully that won’t be the case next year.
I am not one of those people wanting to trade everyone. If the back end of our bullpen had not imploded for the last two weeks we would be right in the thick of this thing and still thinking playoffs…
Pretty much. We need a big pile of players, most of which have consistently done a solid to great job for multiple years, to DO WHAT THEY HAVE ALWAYS DONE. We aren’t asking for a miracle here, and most of us don’t think we’ll win the WS even if the team gets right, but we can compete.
That is what needs to be fixed first and foremost. Plus a new hitting coach to mix things around would help as well.
So the key question is can Perry make in season adjustments to turn this ball club around?
His former employer still run by one of his mentors certainly did last year.
https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/the-braves-turned-a-lost-season-into-a-championship/
100% good with trading both. Just look at the Red Sox, traded fan favorite Mookie Betts and got an above average OF back plus a couple other key elements. Did not miss a beat. Since getting married and fatherhood, Mike’s drive has been stunted.
I’d float an Ohtani trade to the Dodgers, try to get 3-4 players back. Two MLB ready and two top 10 prospects. Shohei will leave if we finish behind the Rangers and Mariners. He wants a post-season legacy.
I haven’t seen it this year, but did the huge nextgen advertisement get removed in the stadium?
I have a pretty cool story about the owner. He went from a parts house guy in anaheim making minimum wage and helping us on side jobs to one of the biggest hvac business owners in california. Ismael is such a good dude and he worked his ass off to get where he is now.
Still there plus in game sponsorships as well
And has commercials. Good to see the dude went from an altima on 20’s to a Bentley.
It’s about time for a new system for my house. Hadn’t heard of NeXgen.
Last night was the most Angels fan experience ever. You get all the way to the end, give yourself a chance, then blow it.
Feels like finally getting up the nerve to ask out the girl you’ve had a crush on all school year just to see her kiss the guy you hate the most and walk off into summer break.
And for some guys here, that guy looked like Anthony Rendon.
Nevin took over vs Boston than NY Mets and now the Dodgers. He will have a winning record by the end of the month.
we still shouldn’t go 2-5 if we’re a good club. Beat up the bad clubs, play .500 ball against the good clubs. We’ve been close, so that’s semi-encouraging.
Ever since the end of the 2009 ALCS this has been a nightmare
It was the beginning of the end where the Angels turned into MLB’s version of a corrupt and poorly run BANANA REPUBLIC. We’re worse than the LA Unified School District or the Veteran’s Admiration
I actually agree with the Athletic article about Ohtani. The reality is that he’s gonna require another enormous contract to stay. Unless Arte intends to up the budget to the $225 million range (which he won’t) then having Trout, Rendon and Ohtani means $100 million per year committed to 3 players. Add in raises to Walsh, Sandoval etc and the payroll commitments are probably $140 million-plus. With an approximate budget of $180 million, the team will continue to remain hamstrung.
If the Angels continue down this path, trading Ohtani does make good baseball sense. He would command a wealth of top prospects which the team desperately needs.
I agree. I’ve said all along that since Rendon has Ohtani’s money already, given Arturo’s self-imposed salary cap, there is no room for both of them. So I want the prospects, although I’d like to get a pro in to replace Minasian so we don’t get totally fleeced. I suspect Arturo will sign Ohtani since it turns out he’s really just in the billboard business. I look forward to many years of Velasquez, Rengifo, and Lagares, or their ilk, in the starting lineup.
I think Perry is actually a pro and could handle the Ohtani negotiations just fine. He’s handcuffed at this point by a budget that is around 85% gone before the season begins. That and a terrible farm that he inherited.
I am the Ohtani owner in an AL only fantasy keeper league. I traded Ohtani for prospects Noelvis Marte of Seattle, Oswald Peraza of MFY, and sore armed Nate Pearson of Toronto. I’m going for the win this year and my trading partner is rebuilding. That’s a lot, but Ohtani is a unicorn, and I’m happy with the transaction.
I guess this is my way of wondering what we could get for Ohtani, and from whom for a 1.5 year rental before the $400 million contract for a DH in his 30’s who won’t be pitching much longer. I hope you’re right about Minasian.
Well, there is Upton’s money coming off of the books. Also, hoping that some of the pitching prospects push forward – so we have years of Sandoval, Suarez, Detmers, Ky Bush, Bachman, Adell, Marsh, Walsh all making less – allowing for more spending on Ohtani.
However it would be a bad PR nightmare
The last time that happened was the Jim Abbott trade 30 yrs ago. The Dodgers also experienced that 25 yrs ago when they traded Mike Piazza.
Let’s see….players OD’ing, club personnel selling drugs to players, firing scouts during the pandemic, minor league players “homeless”, revolving door of GMs and managers, having the quivalent of Babe Ruth and Mickey Mantle on the roster and not winning, etc.
….and we’re worried about a “PR nightmare”?
This franchise by definition is a PR nightmare.
When attending any games now and especially when Shohei pitches, do you notice 25-30% of the crowd is Asian, most notably Japanese? That’s a lot of related souvenirs and a lot of tickets and food and drink and kids. I don’t think that Arte will screw this up by resigning the guy that puts asses in the seats. Arte doesn’t care if we win, only how much money he can make. If I was aware of Albert’s decline then his advisors were too, but he saw $ with taking some of the Dodgers Hispanic crowd and adding same from the OC. Rendon is not Irish in case anyone didn’t notice. He has cut corners for 20 years and still makes bucks, He would rather have a team that makes money than one that wins. At 75 he’s not going to change, and why should he if he makes his goals. To him the budget did increase, he now spends more on the minor leagues, lawyers, having a real scouting director and still able to cut into the FO budget. Everyone thinks he wants to win, nope, he likes the money to much. He will never live to spend all his money if he sold the team today.
You nailed it. That’s why we can’t win when Arturo as the owner.
It’s a bad PR nightmare right now
The Rendon contract and his associated (lack of) performance has made this a decision to either keep Trout or keep Ohtani. There’s no way to keep three players that will consume $110M of annual payroll.
The part that sucks about this is that players like Trout or Ohtani will never bring their true value in a trade. Not every prospect turns out to be a ML starter. If we were to get 40% of value returned in trade, PTP will have done exceptionally well.
Why would the team just settle on prospects. If you are going to trade either Trout or Ohtani you better make damn sure you get some major league quality players. I don’t want to wait another 10 plus years to win again.
Exactly. A trade for Ohtani should include 1-2 MLB pieces as well as a couple of quality prospects.
However, the market for Ohtani would likely be pretty limited. Somebody with enough talent to spare. Probably the financial power to be able to reasonably expect to extend him.
Dodgers, Padres, Mets, Mariners. There are some ideas on the trade simulator. Kind of fun to look at just to get an idea.
I think the yankees have the trade pieces and $ to want ohtani.
Not ironically you’d need a big league pitcher and hitter in any Ohtani trade.
Perhaps. I’d look for the best overall package of talent more than anything.
Let’s say the Brewers go nuts and want to hand us a quality starter, quality bullpen arm, and a couple of prospects. There’s no MLB bat there but we are filling two MLB holes which leaves resources to fill another.
One trade on that simulator does intrigue me. Ohtani to SD for CJ Abrams and Mackenzie Gore. That’s 5 years of quality SS and 5 years of decent pitching right there.
I can’t argue with any of this in a logical way, but I flinch thinking that 50 years from now baseball fans might talk about baseball greats including Nolan Ryan and Ohtani (who went on to pitch 5 no-hitters and hit 300 HR and considered the modern Babe Ruth) and some guy will say “Trivia Question: what team actually had both of those players and traded them both away to save money?”
Agree. My preference would be NOT to trade Shohei. But if we keep losing we might not have a choice. He won’t want to resign here !!!
Ohtani’s trade value is not good right now. He has had a subpar season thus far and you wouldn’t get a lot in return at this point. Let this thing play out until next July and go from there. This season is probably gone but you never know about next season.
THIS. This is my issue. Ohtani killed it… for one year. Don’t get me wrong, he doesn’t suck, but he’ll be heading into year 5 of stupid Babe Ruth comparisons and he’s not Babe Ruth.
We’re not getting an “MLB bat and MLB starter plus a couple good prospects” for him. Not now anyway, maybe if he explodes the rest of the way and we trade him in December.
Ohtani home run tear before the All Star break has brainwashed folks here to think this is his norm.
I think it was his norm until the HR Derby ruined his swing.
Dodgers, more depth. Dustin May, Gonsolin + prospects.
Yeah, I would take Gonsolin and others; see my trade above.
Jeff, I say more like 3-4 MLB pieces, with one stud being Gonsolin.
See above.
The Angels wouldn’t trade him to the Mariners or Dodgers that is for certain. A trade of Ohtani isn’t going to happen this season. I think you go into next season and hopefully the team can string a good season together and hopefully they can re-sign him before next season ends.
Mariners no way, but LAD possibly. The M’s you play 18 times per season, and in division, Doyers only 6. If Dodgers offer a good enough package I think it is possible…
Never trade with Freidman.
He has had very poor FA signings.
Totally. This is why you do not trade them. If the Dodgers would give you Gonsolin, Lux, Taylor, Graterol and two really good young pitchers at the AAA level MAYBE you consider trading Ohtani. But it should take a package like that…
Not sure if you looked at the sim, but Ohtani is valued at 97.5 and those four guys combined add up to 76.3. Then you’d add prospects.
I know it is a sim, but this trade is in line with reality.
I played around with it and got Lux and Urias at the big league level, highly touted pitching prospect Bobby Miller and lefty prospect Vesia. I’d take that over Graterol and Taylor. That’s two MLB pieces, a stud prospect, and a good prospect.
IF the Angels traded Ohtani it would be with the total mindset that they will WIN very quickly thereafter and negate the PR nightmare. It may work, it may not. In either case you still need players to do their jobs, and that seems hard right now.
Agreed. And I think my trade fairy tale does a decent job of that.
Urias takes Ohtani’s place in the rotation. Lux instantly becomes our best middle infielder, fixing another area of severe weakness.
Those are both win now moves.
Miller instantly becomes our top prospect. He’s already at AA and pretty much finished. It is pretty realistic to think he’s ready for the show next season. And he might be our best arm when he gets here.
We’d no longer need a six man rotation. Urias, Sandoval, Lorenzen, Detmers, with Miller likely slotting in early in the year is a solid 5 man rotation and allows Silseth, Suarez, and others to provide depth in AAA.
Lux and Fletcher mean no more Wade, Squid, or Mayfield in the starting lineup.
If a franchise has to gut their farm and give up a couple of MLB level players to get Ohtani, haven’t they become what the Angels are today: having “Babe Ruth” on the roster and can’t make the play-offs?
There’s very few teams that will pay a player at least $40M per year for five or six years, and give up prospects, and give up MLB talent to acquire Ohtani.
If Ohtani was traded, I’d bet Gitch’s paycheck that the CtPG servers would crash do the overload of unhappy posters (and 2002’s image captures) with what PTP received in return.
This is why Ohtani and Trout will not be traded. Those kinds of trades really cannot be done. Unfortunately if we can’t win next season we will lose Ohtani for nothing.
Yes. The salty internet tears will preserve my delicious fishes for many winters if we trade Trout and Ohtani. I don’t think we will though because both are at near minimum value (for them) and both generate money. And yes, the trade return expectations would be totally AOC speech level unrealistic. But it would entertain me.
To play devil’s advocate here, Thor is raking in $25 million this year and Upton is getting another $28 million. I know most of Pujols savings was basically moved over to Rendon’s back loaded deal, but that is already in place.
I’d prefer to extend Thor but if the price is prohibitive (and I’m not sure it would be), that’s $25 million saved. Perhaps extend Lorenzen and bring in an infielder with that money.
And that leads me to Upton’s dead money. It could be slid Ohtani’s direction IF and only IF (and that is a big IF) Perry’s 2021 draft class is able to produce a largely in house pitching staff. Top to bottom.
That means very limited free agent acquisitions for a few years, particularly this one.
I see you point but I still don’t think this team can shoulder another enormous contract and be competitive given Arte’s budget.
Counting on prospects to do well is risky business- although I hope it happens.
If a player and prospect haul of a really top young shortstop (who could fill the position for something like 5 seasons), a high prospect outfielder, a good starting pitcher and top pitching prospect could be had for Ohtani- I would do it. I’d be sad – but it’s a good baseball move.
This is the first time I’ve felt this kind of article makes sense. Previously even before this season I felt Ohtani was way too comfortable here and his personality will have him lean in this direction.
But Rendon’s contract really, really complicates things if he doesn’t even look healthy enough to move like how the Mariners were able to shed Cano.
Serious question, when was the last time the Angels were sellers and how did it pan out? Can Perry make a good trade that will benefit this team?
I don’t think that we’ve done super bad with the mini-selloffs we did in the past few years, at least.
We nabbed players like Buttrey, Sandy, etc.
Buttrey, Sandoval, Stassi, Felix Pena, and the reliever we got from SD for Castro is back in the minors and throwing heat.
It’s a good question. Trading a generational player like Ohtani is difficult and I’m not sure there are many times in the history of baseball where that type of trade has been made. But I think the Angels have to do it unless Arte increases the budget. Otherwise I think Ohtani is gone after next season with nothing in return.
Of that we probably all agree… that one of the worst Ohtani outcomes transaction-wise is that we watch him walk out the door as a FA and get nothing but a compensation draft pick. That would be immense failure by the GM.
I would not extend Walsh, flip him for some other talent. Severe splits should never get extended. See Joc Pederson.