Welcome to the Lockout Landing Edition of Thursday links.The current status of the CBA negotiations is in this link, at least as of mid-morning Wednesday. By the afternoon, there were not even any more meetings scheduled between the two warring sides.
Pitchers kept falling off the board yesterday, but at least the Angels got Raisel Iglesias. Here are some of those other pitcher deals.
Marcus Stroman signed with the Cubs prior to the lockout.
Dylan Bundy signed with the Twins.
The Giants signed Alex Wood to a two year deal at $12.5 Million each year.
Mark Melancon came to terms with the Diamondbacks for $14 Million a year for two years.
Corey Knebel signed a one year deal with the Phillies.
James Paxton signed a one year deal with the Red Sox.
Luis Garcia signed a two year deal with the Padres for a guaranteed $7 Million.
Taylor Clarke signed a deal with the Royals. He was just non-tendered by the Diamondback the day before.
This is the list of non-tendered free agents by team.
The Tigers have finalized their deal with Javier Baez.
The Dodgers and Chris Taylor reached a deal, pending his physical.
Former Cy Young Award winner LaMarr Hoyt passed away at the age of 66.
Photo credit: Rex Fregosi
So…..if you’re a team which signed a player to a 3 year and $75 million deal with each year at $25m and there is a year long lockout, does that become a 2 year and $50 million deal?
I think all MLB FA contracts are chronologically based not duration based (this seems how 2020 COVID contracts were handled) so yes, an entire season would be lost.
You still can find much longer odds on the Angels. BetMGM has them at 50-1 and FanDuel 32-1. It’s typical that these vary from site to site in the offseason. Offshore betting can bring better returns.
Behind the Mariners….. There’s not much to celebrate.
Where are the ALL IN freakin’ Rangers lol
Kershaw and Matt Olson are coming to the Rangers. Texas is thinking, GO BIG or GO HOME.
Kinda like “get it F’ing done.”
But I’m not quite a genius. 😎
the best thing about the lockout is that now any IIWPMs won’t be out of date by the next morning.
Is anybody else going to make one? I am about to publish the article with all the links to those articles compiled (with a recap of what Perry himself actually did).
there’s still so much that will be done. Perry will sign free agents and make trades that will alter the team for 2022. I know many of us plan to write one, although general laziness might reduce the actual number that get sent in.
They’ll be something to read. The links are going to be like “Our top story today, There’s still a lockout.” together with whatever new coloring pages or recipes show up on the Angels official site.
Edit: Plus whatever happens in the Eric Kay trial, the Bubba Harkins appeal, or the ongoing Trevor Bauer debacle, not to mention Arte’s bleedin’ real estate development.
Where is Garrett Morris for those of us who are hard of hearing?
Doctors say his condition has taken a turn for the worst.
For the WORSIEST
Still waiting on 2002’s, since he knows everything that is wrong with the team and with his amazing HINDSIGHT-VISION, knows who we should get.
I’d like to update and re-do mine, as when we started everything, real life Perry went and made moves that changed everything. Maybe we create a new set of rules, or give everyone a set amount of money to finish the roster? Thoughts?
I figured comparing our projected budget to what Perry apparently already spent would at least result in further argument about what the budget is. People are going to need something to comment about.
With only $8 million left to spend what’s the point?
Shortstop and back up catcher should still be addressed.
Trades could still be interesting as well. Detmers could possibly get us Jazz Chisholm Jr. plus a throw in like Louis Head from the Marlins. I just don’t think the Marlins need Detmers anywhere near as much as they need Chisholm.
Rengifo alone would be a slight overpay for Louis Head alone, although they have a minor league catcher who could be a throw in on that trade.
There are hours of fun available on the trade simulator.
Matt Thaiss for catcher and Freddy Galvis. Pour all the rest into the bullpen. Please, signing Iglesias does not make the other guys instantaneously better.
We all should go back and read through the Angel box scores and re-live all the nasty things that we hurled at the blowpen. You’ll come away with Ray Milland x-ray eyes! The horror of it all…
Well, given that Arte was still in the market for a 20M pitcher, and he knows we need at least a SS, and the FO is talking about trading for guys that cost 10M, I’d say that Arte’s not done spending yet and plans on a bigger payroll than 180M
Me. “Given that…. I’d say….” it’s just my guess based on what we’ve seen. It doesn’t make much sense to me that Arte’d spend what he has thus far, be willing to spend towards 20M on Stroman, know that we need a SS, but then come back and say he wants the payroll around 180M again. If we’re at 175Mish now I bet most of that Stroman money is still open for spending.
I mean we know they are looking at guys like Gray in a trade (10M).
So yeah, that’s what the source inside my brain says.
I’m not sure what to believe. Perry was very non committal in yesterdays presser. “Always trying to improve the team” Every team thinks they don’t have enough pitching” etc. These comments sound encouraging but are not really commitments to spend $20+ million on a pitcher and/or shortstop. Its hard to believe that anonymous sources whispering that the free spending Angels were/are in on a big name free agent as it could be just hot air ginned up by that agent or their mouth pieces to drive up their clients big pay day.
According to Fangraphs last years final payroll was around $182 million.
The closest we’ve seen Arte spend to the great splash of 2003-2004 was the nixed Joco Stripling trade which would have added another $10 million to the payroll to about $189 million . Unfortunately that money was never added through that trade or any other. So until Perry actually reels a big fish, I’m figuring it will just be another $182 million top heavy at the bottom payroll year.Which means we have a whopping $10 million left to spend so choose wisely.
Eh. I err on the side of “what do I actually know?”. We were pursuing Stroman, and I doubt we were offering 8M a season. We may not have offered 23M either, but somewhere in there is a number we offered, and we offered it knowing we still need a SS, catcher, and probably another cheapish pen arm. So there’s probably money to spend.
I also know that, as much as CtPG folks seem to think it happens somewhere out there, no GM ever comes out and says exactly what he’s gonna try to spend on what…. likely because he doesn’t know for sure.
The number probably varies a little depending on who it is PTP is trying to spend on. But I can’t call up anything in my head that says Arte’s probably crossed his arms and called it a day. Though really, if you’re saying 10M, I’m guessing more the 15-20M range, it’s not that far off. They could probably get Galvis, Blake Parker and Kim for that range of money… or Josh Harrison… or Tyler Anderson… or trade for someone…
Yah. We’ll have to see what happens, plenty of other teams still trying to get players, and the Dodger’s silence leads me to believe they are trading for someone…. as has been the case for years now, I think the main problem will be player’s choices rather than whether or not Arte will pay 10M more this year for pitching.
I was gonna fanpost a “Well, say we have 20M left to spend on payroll, what now?” post. See what ideas folks have with the guys we currently employ. The 18M being around what Stroman would have cost (just a guess, really have no idea how much more Arte will spend but that’d put us at 196 to 200M, a fun exercise.)
Listening to MLB Network Radio on XM this morning. One point the guy from The Athletic made is the players are pushing for a change in the revenue sharing arrangement to discourage tanking. I like that idea a lot. How many teams last season were mailing it in, either from the beginning of the season or at the trade deadline? Not a particularly stirring fan experience.
they are pushing to change it, but their changes would actually do the opposite (at least in theory of what they have said)
I’m sure they are claiming they want to eliminate revenue sharing because “if teams are forced to rely on ticket sales and not revenue sharing, then they can’t risk tanking because that will jeopardize ticket sales.”
That argument is not sound. if the owners of low-revenue teams believed they would have significantly higher ticket sales with a mediocre team than a bad one, they wouldn’t tank. The reasons team tank is because they believe a mix of good years and bad years will produce higher overall revenue than consistent mediocrity. Removing revenue sharing will remove any incentive low-revenue teams have to try for good years. Instead, they will perpetually tank, having consistent bad years.
I firmly believe the real motive for seeking to eliminate revenue sharing is because it means teams that are willing to spend money on players (like the Yankees and Dodgers) will have more money to do so.
Manfred has destroyed the integrity of baseball. Right now with what is going on in our country this is a disgusting position MLB has taken.
integrity ? When did MLB ever have any integrity?
Good question. Also, when did it become MLB? Before that it was the two entities. Was it after the Black Sox?
I’m probably in the minority, but I side with the owners moreso than the players on the lockout. There is definitely blame on both sides of course, but the players are shooting for the moon in negotiations and not willing to change.
The MLB has sent numerous proposals, and although not all of the things in the proposal are realistic, at the least the owners have TRIED to make concessions with some things that the players want. The MLBPA says the want higher salaries sooner (the owners made an offer), no service time manipulation (the owners have offered a solution), and it to be more competitive (the owners have made a proposal). I’m not saying that those offers are good enough, but they are at least something to try and find middle ground. For the players, it seems like there is no middle ground with what they are standing on.
Unless the players are willing to negotiate and try to find middle ground, this will last a while. Again, I’m not saying everything the owners have proposed is good, but at least it shows a willingness to negotiate
I feel bad for the minor league players – not the top draft choices, but the later round guys.
The owners and MLBPA are nothing more than millionaires and billionaires fighting over who is most important. Fuck ’em all – the game was much more enjoyable before so much money got involved.
This doesn’t really impact the minor leaguers right now. Obviously the new CBA will impact them down the line, but they aren’t part of the MLBPA.
MLB has already required owners to pay minor leaguers more and make changes i housing and pay. I tend to not “feel bad” for minor leaguers. They’re chasing a dream, they know what they signed up for.
Yes, understood. My point was that unless the owners and/or MLBPA give something to the MiLB players via the CBA process, they get nothing.
I get that, but the minor leaguers cannot be part of the CBA. The MLBPA is not going to fight for anyone not part of their union.
Concur. No good guys in this soap opera. Its hard as a fan to root for a system where profitability doesn’t seem too correlated with the quality of the product but the players have had no problem all these years just ignoring the plight of their fellow ballplayers in the minors.
What about the Bar and Restaurant workers and owners? All the businesses surrounding baseball? Stadium workers, behind the scenes people in TV and radio, food and catering, beer and alcohol salesperson, delivery people, the lawyers for all the Doyer fans…………..
….but the police and ER staff in and around Chavez Ravine will have the equivelent of vacation while Dodger Stadium is empty
Sammy Selman now doing the limbo.
Unless he performs ballet, he’s not getting a job.
Noticed that the MLB Team Owners seem to have it so bad that the price to ante up to play with the big boys is in the Billions. And the players have it so bad that it is possible to pull in 43 million a year while never making less than over a half million a year. That’s just a rough way to have to live, just brutal. With that said how about the third faction in the pie ring, the fans. Bring us to the table and then it will get real. This is my third time going through this selfish go arounds and it is so unnecessary as the fans always are the losers. What will save their butts next time? More Steroids? Manfred’s Superball? Do you really feel bad for Chris Bryant missing out on one year of Free Agency? No winners here, only losers and none more than the fans by increased prices, higher cable and streaming prices etc. in a time of extreme inflation and extreme greed. There is no justification at all for all of this to not have been settled upon a year ago. No player is worth the kind of money made today and no team is worth the Billions spent to purchase a team today. And no team has the right to ask the taxpayer to finance a Stadium in these times. Attendance will unfortunately continue to decline much more rapidly if this is not settled very soon and without the fans having to pay even more.
MLB Annual Salary Leaders since 1874
Remember the good old days GPB…..
I do remember and the beer in the saloon was warm and had to leave the old Lady on a bench sucking down the dust as the Pony Express deliver the latest scores, yup that was good ‘ol days.
There will still be a minor league Rule 5 draft.
There will probably still be a Rule 5 major league draft. The question is when?
This is an illustration from TBW & ex scout Bobby Fontaine’s book. There’s a whole chapter on the ” 1995 Replacements”I ts a great read for any Angel fan young or old.
I am reading this now and TBW has connected me with Bob. Look for a Zoom chat sometime soon.
There were so many unique forgotten stories that were part of Angel lore that Bob was a part of:
The ’95 replacement players
The 3 prospects we signed out of Russia
The Angels pursuit of El Duque
Jim Abbotts drafting and rookie year.
All those memories came rushing back. Crazy times.
Hey Jeff If you get a chance to talk to him, there was one thing I was curious about when I read the book that maybe he could shed some light on. Despite being the scouting director for many of the players on that World Series championship team, in fact he lists all of the top players signed and developed by the scouting and minor league staffs for the Angels during his tenure) There is no mention of Bengie Molina. I thought Bengie was signed as a NDFA by an Angel scout after attending a Yuma Community College. Considering he is right up there as one of the greatest catchers in Angel History, I’m shocked there’s no mention of Bengie whatsoever.
As I recall, Donkey got shafted by the union after the Angels 2002 win because he crossed the line in ’95.
Yes he did. Not sure how that ultimately worked out for him.
If I remember right the Angels players paid him? Maybe? They voted him a WS share.
Headed back to S Korea in March, so even if there is no baseball state side, at least I’ll be able to follow and catch some KBO games in person.
We could use some KBO advanced scouting. Let us know if you find any starting pitching, a shortstop or a back up catcher.
That’s cool. I was working such crazy hours last year I started watching KBO games.
I really like the Lorenzen signing. I think this is a bit overlooked right now, but the value of a guy who is a capable reliever AND can hit, OR potentially could work in as a starter who could pinch-hit on days Ohtani pitches and DHs… the flexibility is a huge help.
Me too. And I know people are denigrating him as a starter but his numbers aren’t that bad. He made most of his starts with the Reds in 2015 ( 21 GS’s) and another 5 starts over the last 4 years. If you throw out a horrible 6 game stretch as a starter in August of 2015 his ERA as a starter is a respectable 3.36 with even better numbers the last couple of years.
I think Lorenzen’s success comes down to Healy. if he’s fully healthy, with his skillset he could be one of the biggest steals of free agency.
I’ll get to the point. I meant Health not Jim Healy
myyour *ucking fault, Campanis is the *ucking guy!”
I thought you meant this guy.
Who? Bob Newhart’s neighbor?
No, I’m not talking about Howard Borden (would he be the other OTHER Howard?)
You mean these Howard(s)?
That’s MAJOR Healey to you.
If you’ve ever had a major healy, you know how painful it can be.
True. So true. I’ve heard they’re worse when you wear a thong.
The thong is actually is a protective device. If more people wore one, there’d be far less injuries.
to which body part?
The part(s) that need protecting.
Those are called your erroneous zones.
I really like his bullpen work. So as long as he doesn’t get hurt trying to stretch out as a starter, the fallback option is a late inning reliever at just under $7 million. That’s not a bad fallback option at all.
If he happens to stick in the rotation or just find a way to flex back and forth for 100 quality innings, that is also fine for $7 million.
I didn’t get the need to add him so early. But I’m warming to it.
The other thing I noticed about Lorenzen is he seems to have a flair for the big moment. I watched his hitting highlights and it looked like many of his hr’s tied or put the Reds ahead .
Re-signing Raisel gives us at least a chance at successful off-season. As much as I wanted Moreno to pay north of $100,000,000 for an arm, none of them were a sure thing. So, if we keep fortifying the bullpen, find a major league starter at shortstop, and trade for someone like Pablo Lopez or Luis Castillo without trading Marsh or Adell, or at least add someone like Greinke to the rotation, this will exceed the very low bar I’ve set for Minasian. I am still deducting points for spending $7,000,000 for Lorenzen as a starter if that’s an excuse to prevent us from doing any of the above.
Hey ML your numbers are a little cloudy. Its $6.75 Million for Lorenzen.
Fair enough, my bad, I quoted the original report number, and the difference is rounding error to your average billionaire. I personally don’t like the injury risk and lack of track record at this position.
I don’t see how we can get a guy without surrendering a Marsh/Adell/Sandoval it’s gonna take two of those 3 to get something done through a trade. Chris Bassitt is the lone upper level FA SP left. LET ME REINTERATE MY IIWPM (we have to get TWO/DOS/2 frontline SP’s if we wanna win more than 81 games one by FA and the other through a trade). Otherwise we’ll be competing for a Lottery Pick in the 2023 MLB Draft and might as well really move Raisel this time at the trading deadline.
Chris Bassitt isn’t a free agent.
“We need pitching! Arte bad! Billy dumb! Packy Naughten! Bicep bicep bicep cry laugh OK fingers I win!” Isn’t an IIWPM. Hell, ignore all the moves that have been made and tell us what you would have done with 45M. Double hell, I’ll give you 55M to work with. Just use that laser focus you have for Arte hate and point it at listing some moves you’d make to do a better job than PTP this year so we can see your brilliance with our own stupid eyes.
This aint a IIWPM . Its diatribe.
Just a note, I think Malancon is getting 7M a year for 2 years.
Oops! I had a rough day yesterday.
So the flow of baseball news effectively dies for a few months. See everyone in February!
Manfred is a jackass and I lay this stoppage directly at his feet…pathetic.
Very disappointed that Manasian did not go all out to get Marcus Stroman.
The next best FA SP is Kershaw…NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.
But…would it not be sweet irony to have #22 in Halo red going against Blue.
To Kershaws credit, he is still determining his health and is not entertaining offers.
Yep, that is a classy move.
PTP did not go all out to sign Stroman? Source?
My sources told me that Arte met with Stroman at the Del Taco on Katella in Stanton and said:
My source told me Stroman went to Chicago because The Jesus Lizard is his favorite band.
My source returned via the TARDIS and has just confirmed your source’s information.
hey, that’s by me!!! LOL!
Once I was in an arbitration hearing and when the arbitrator asked the opposing person to make a settlement offer, that’s what he said.
I responded, “Get serious. You’re not Michael Corleone and I’m not Senator Geary.”
The guy sat there with a blank expression and the arbitrator laughed so hard I thought he’d cough up a lung.
If he had gone all out he would be on our roster.
Um, no. That’s not how it works at all. If he went all out all it would guarantee is that he went all out. In fact, I’m going to say that he did go all out, more out than anyone has ever gone, like totally After Midnight level all out.
Then Stroman was like, “I want to be a Cub because I like their hats.” and that was it.
Anything you say gitch…you’re the expert. 😎
But actually, yes it does work just like that.
Like Scherzer to the Mets…get it f’ing done.
Money talks and I’m betting we sucked $$$.
😆 💩 💩
Apparently, the only people in pursuit of Stroman was the Cubs and 99% of this CtPG faithful Count me as a 1-percenter.
We’ll be just fine. As there were no true healthy ace-like pitchers besides Max, I still believe it is more important to beef up the bullpen than to chase any these other 1st or 2nd tier FA starters. Besides, I am bullish on Sandoval reaching even higher this year and Detmers emerging onto the scene. But that was not preclude me from making a trade for a Sonny Gray or signing a 3rd tier FA starter like a Tyler Anderson.
Last night the talking heads on the MLB Network were drooling over the season new teammates Jacob deGrom and Max Scherzer could have next year. It made me wonder if 2022 deGrom/Scherzer will be able to match 1977 Nolan Ryan/Frank Tanana.
‘77 Ryan: 141 ERA+, 341 K, 22 Complete Games, .193 BAA
’77 Tanana: 154 ERA+, 205 K, 20 Complete Games, .227 BAA
I had to spell out Complete Games for all of the youngsters out there who would have had no idea what the initials CG stand for. Also, with the Scherzer acquisition, I wonder if Syndergaard is now suffering from a little “signer’s remorse.”
If Syndergaard accepted his QO I’m not entirely sure the Mets go as hard for Scherzer. I’m sure they would still have interest, but maybe they get out-bid with less desperation.
I would have liked him on our team but you are signing the future, not the past and he is getting paid like he’s 27, not 37. He’s had arm and back issues in his last 2 full seasons (throwing out fake 2020 ‘season’) so there are warning signs.
$43M outbid even their crosstown rivals..
But if the 2022 season is cancelled then our 75 yr old billionaire is a genius and the Mets, Rangers, Cards, and Mariners, all will have egg on their faces.
Once we get done paying Trout, Rendon, and Upton then we’re on the same level as the Pirates in financials.
That’s great for the Mets, they got themselves “two 8-7 pitchers” since the Mets offense will provide zero run support for either Scherzer or deGrom LOL, and inevitably one or both of those guys will miss time with an injury. What are the chances both guys actually make 30 or more starts? So the Mets will still have to figure out how to win the other ~100 games or so…
Feels like MLB is Buttercuping us. We finally think we have a good team and…. no season. TrAdition!
Remember, there was almost a strike in Sept 2002.
We finally have a good team!?! I don’t think you’re allowed to say that around here.
We have a “good team” ? First, what is a “good team” – 80 wins? 90 wins? More? Less?
Secondly, are you stoned?
I’m prepared to say: we have a team. The team is based in California. The team plays on a baseball field. The team is owned by
We have a pretty good team……..pretty, pretty good.
Yes, but wouldn’t you prefer a gorgeous……exquisitely gorgeous team?
I’d prefer one that looks marvelous.
What can I say – it was hot and I was thirsty.
We don’t have a good team.
I don’t own a billion dollars, so just hope the players come out of this with a better deal and the season starts on time.
It would be nice if the players could try to come out better without hurting the fans, though. The players’ proposal to reduce team control to 5 years and reduce revenue sharing are pure money grabs – so the Yankees can offer even bigger contracts to players sooner – at the cost of competitive balance.
There are better ways to accomplish the same goal that won’t hurt competition. For example, start MLB service time when players are added to the 40-man roster and make rule 5 draft eligibility 1 year sooner. That eliminates service time manipulation and makes it harder for teams to bury prospects in the minors.
Instead of reducing revenue sharing, make it a .50 cent match. For every 1 dollar a team spends on budget, they get 50 cents of revenue sharing up to the sharing max. That forces low payroll teams to offer bigger contracts to keep their subsidies.
According to the artile linked, the MLBPA hasn’t budged on its bad ideas since May. Meanwhile, the MLB has made actual proposals like eliminating the QO system and implementing a draft lottery to remove the incentive for tanking.
Draft lottery seems like a no-brainer.
The parties will not talk seriously until February 2022. There’s zero pressure to finalize an agreement until the players and owners don’t have cash coming in the door.