LA Angels Monday News Crash: Dreary Weekends

In what only could be constituted as a Friday night news dump (the LA Times tweeted around 11 pm), Eric Kay is accused of giving oxycodone not only to Tyler Skaggs but also to at least five other Major League players.

The Angels were swept by the Cleveland Indians, including Sunday night in Williamsport.

New sensation Jose Marte is already injured. He appeared once for the club.

Mike Trout still wants to return this year, and he believes he can. There has been progress in his rehab, although no rehab assignment has been listed yet.

The team is down to a 0.1% chance of making the playoffs.

Around Baseball

Miguel Cabrera has reached 500 home runs. Congrats to an all-time legend!

The Oakland A’s continue to play Oakland and Las Vegas against one another, looking into potential ballpark proposals at both locations.

The Baltimore Orioles have lost 18 games in a row.

Title Image from Angels Twitter

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nishiogawakun
Super Member
2 years ago

Whether or not you’re an idealist or a realist when it comes where Arte lands after this debacle, it’s just one bad take after another. No, I absolutely do not think Arte is the most heinous owner all things considered, but I’m just tired of poor look after poor look. Yeah, he’s not a cheater like Crane, and yeah, he’s not the ultimate cheapskate like Nutting or Fischer. It definitely could be worse. But I do believe there is a greater chance that it could be better.

I’m tired of the meddling and forcing bad trades, I’m tired of the old boys club of incompetence in upper management, I’m tired of a myriad of PR bumbles and worse. I mean, I’m no lawyer, I have no idea if any of this has merit, but man, I think it’s all shameful. Bottom line, I think Arte makes the team worse, that’s just my opinion.

Does it keep me up at night? Of course not. But yuck, man. Just yuck.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/2021/08/23/tyler-skaggs-death-angels-federal-subpoena/?utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=wp_sports&utm_source=twitter

gitchogritchoffmypettis
Legend
Reply to  nishiogawakun

No, I absolutely do not think Arte is the most heinous owner all things considered, but I’m just tired of poor look after poor look. ” That’s a good way to put it. We could do a lot worse, and we could do well with him too, but man does he sure have a knack for stepping in the shit, from bad FA signings to bad employee behavior.

I am most frustrated with his lack of executive concern. I’m not a very reactive person. But after all these years, and all this crap, even if the Skaggs thing turns out to be nothing, I’d just be protective of my investment enough to set the whole executive team on an ice flow and hire all new people. Even if all of this crap can be chalked up to bad luck it’s just too many unlucky people in one room. Can’t fire myself, but I can work in a whole new circle of people. Perry’s fine. But everyone above him and all the people who work for them, I’d change them all out over the next couple years…. starting in 2019.

eyespy
Super Member
2 years ago

Not so easy to just say “I think it’s time to get me a new krew”

Or, “the business side of life is just great, but the baseball side? P.U. budday. Time to go find a bunch of yes men to do some work. Take some of the workload off of me bones between yeses. Off to make a post on Craigslist.”

Bro, this is Arte’s little Cartel, his Mob, they family, Ohana brah. They ain’t going a noplace notime nosoon.

gitchogritchoffmypettis
Legend
Reply to  eyespy

Well, maybe Carpino and friends will just decide they want to get into making artisanal cheeses or something and retire. They’ve got to go sometime.

2002heaven
Super Member
2 years ago
Reply to  eyespy

comment image

2002heaven
Super Member
2 years ago
Reply to  2002heaven

comment image
Our fixer……..

Twebur
Legend
2 years ago

who the hell is this 18 year old…14 games 17 innings 0 runs.
https://www.milb.com/player/alex-martinez-692624

Eric_in_Portland
Legend
2 years ago
Reply to  Twebur

14.54 Ks per 9. Also walks a few. 8 in those 17 innings. 5 inherited runners scored out of 12.

Cowboy26
Legend
2 years ago

Yes it looks like he suffers from a touch of the IBS (Inherited Baserunners Scored)

Twebur
Legend
2 years ago
Reply to  Cowboy26

…..IBS has medication to help control it.

Cowboy26
Legend
2 years ago
Reply to  Twebur

The Angels team doctor should prescribe it to the Cheese Shit.

eyespy
Super Member
2 years ago
Reply to  Cowboy26

IRS

gitchogritchoffmypettis
Legend

Are you angry that Arte Moreno and Tim Meade did nothing to fire Eric Kay after he first got caught for drug use and went to rehab after an OD?

Well, then let’s figure out which politicians created the laws that make it damn near illegal to fire/demote a guy for a drug problem and hold them and the politicians who still support these regulations accountable. If there is a labor, legal, trade organization that spawns these regulations, find out which politicians they support, and vote them out. Are there journalists who supported these regulations? Go shit all over them.

Fly oh you angry birds, fly! Cause it doesn’t matter what Arte or Meade or anyone knew, I don’t think they could have fired Kay and there’s a good chance they could have even been sued for watching him more closely after his first overdose and creating a hostile work environment. You want some feet to lay this squarely at? They’re out there, but you’re going to have to stop being a lazy POS, find out who they are, and do some politicking. Let your outrage be your fuel, let me know what you find out, maybe I’ll get mad too.

For now all I see is a sad degenerate junky trying to save his skin, an entitled junky who died, and sad people suing who they can cause the gravy train broke down. If more facts come out then I’ll change my mind accordingly, but for now all I can do is shrug at this.

eyespy
Super Member
2 years ago

Should have been a fan post

Cowboy26
Legend
2 years ago

Politicians? I blame Marion Barry Then.

Twebur
Legend
2 years ago
Reply to  Cowboy26

Blame John F. Kennedy……rumors LSD and weed, bootlegger family.

gitchogritchoffmypettis
Legend
Reply to  Twebur

Dude, if you actually read about how mobbed up guys like FDR, Truman and the Kennedy clan were you wonder how any of them would get elected from prison today.

eyespy
Super Member
2 years ago

Truman, ha, you need to go back and check your facts.

gitchogritchoffmypettis
Legend
Reply to  eyespy

Here. Check my facts.

Cowboy26
Legend
2 years ago

Oh When you said Truman was mobbed up I thought you were talking about Jim Carrey. That would have explained alot.

Guest
2 years ago
eyespy
Super Member
2 years ago
Reply to 

I thought I heard in a game that Shohei hasn’t gotten an 0-2 hit this season either. Thinking Matty V said it. Could be this stat, being Matty is Sir Jibba-Jabbahz a-lot-all-the-time-plus-more, but Ohtani was batting when it was brought up.

We thought it was a weird stat being once at 0-2, what was the most Sho could foul off before:

1) Getting a ball to change the count.

2) Striking out

3) Hit by pitch

AKA_rmhalofan
Member
2 years ago
Reply to 

I can say the same thing.

Mia
Legend
Mia
2 years ago

If what is being alleged in the Eric Kay trial is true and can be proven, this is Arte’s Donald Sterling moment. Might even be much worse in the end.

2pints
Trusted Member
2 years ago
Reply to  Mia

There has yet to be any shred of evidence linking Arte to any of this. If they can’t prove Arte knew about this and did nothing to fix it, then this isn’t even close to the Donald Sterling situation.

gitchogritchoffmypettis
Legend
Reply to  2pints

If I really really want to be pissed at Arte for something does that make him at least 12% more guilty? Huh? Come on. How about 10%? What if I feel very strongly that Arte is guilty, even if nothing he did is anywhere close to the legal definition for guilt, BUUUTTTT there are a shit ton of people on social media declaring that he’s a witch… I mean rich… I mean a negligently homicidal maniac? So then he planned the murder right?

Cowboy26
Legend
2 years ago

A witch? Is he made out of wood?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zrzMhU_4m-g

2pints
Trusted Member
2 years ago

Pretty sure I saw Arte get blamed for Trout’s calf strain somewhere in this thread. Lots of blame being thrown Arte’s way for a myriad of things. Heavy lies the crown.

Guest
2 years ago

Unpopular Theory: The toxic clubhouse culture in the Angels organization has directly led to the many serious injuries to players over the last several years and could be to blame for Trout’s body suddenly starting to break down.

I’m now wondering how many Tommy John Surgeries or season-ending injuries could’ve been avoided if guys just took the proper rest and rehab for once minor issues.

It’s also the reason why we never get a straight answer from the organization regarding the true nature of a players’ injury. The rot starts at the top.

GrandpaBaseball
Legend
2 years ago
Reply to 

“Suddenly”, I think he has been broke down for a while now. Look it up and you’ll see that he has a hard time keeping up at playing in 75 to 80% of the games. In 2012 and 2013 he was young and could play in 155 or so games but take is not the way it has been for a while now.

Senator_John_Blutarsky
Legend

Jahmai Jones was called up by the Orioles today. Now we know who will unleash their vengeance in the series.

Mia
Legend
Mia
2 years ago

I remember Jeff had a lot of content about him over on Halos Heaven. Was always rooting for him. If he beats up on us tonight I’ll be fine, our season is over and it’ll be another prospect we developed properly.

Happy he’s getting his shot.

Last edited 2 years ago by Mia
Cowboy26
Legend
2 years ago
Reply to  Mia

If Jahmai beats up on us tonight he’ll have to do it with his very own fisticuffs.

h27kim
Trusted Member
2 years ago
Reply to  Mia

I’ve always liked him and that the org was making a series of mistakes in developping him by shifting his position and messing with his swing every year. If he does well with the Orioles, I’ll also a happy person

AllenB
Super Member
2 years ago

I know we better not lose to these guys. It will prove that we are WORSE than we already knew we were. Two things that don’t give me much confidence…..Jahmai Jones being called up and Bundy going for us tonight. They would love to beat up on the pitcher that once played for them. They’ve lost 18 straight. I guess there is no better time to right that ship.

gitchogritchoffmypettis
Legend
Reply to  AllenB

Jahmai Jones is a 24 year old hitting .238 in AAA.

Cowboy26
Legend
2 years ago

And its our fault for tinkering with his swing back in 2018

Guest
2 years ago

https://twitter.com/FlyByKnite/status/1429950510098837505?s=20

Holy CRAP!! This confirms what many of us already know deep down, that this organization is a goddam mess. I’m sure we’re gonna get some more unsavory details about the club as the case plays out, as it looks like Kay is singing like a bird.

Last edited 2 years ago by Bl0chead
Senator_John_Blutarsky
Legend
Reply to 

Let’s wait and see what comes out in the trial…

Designerguy
Super Member
2 years ago
Reply to 

Standard hyperbole from an attorney. Surprised the attorney didn’t claim the organization sacrificed a goat before each game.

It doesn’t matter the sport, all players are encouraged to “play through the pain.” That pressure usually comes from other players.

Twebur
Legend
2 years ago
Reply to  Designerguy

“Standard hyperbole from an attorney.”
and
“It doesn’t matter the sport, all players are encouraged to “play through the pain.” That pressure usually comes from other players.”

Spot on…..again, Arte is a villain, but he has company. This culture is commonplace in professional sports. Sure, maybe not from a front office PR guy, but it comes from from someone in the organization, family or friend, someone they trust. They are above hitting the streets to buy whatever it is they use. Players need to play to get paid, so competitive they are more than willing to take risks in long term health, not even thinking about the possibilities. Lucky for them they aren’t likely to die like Skaggs.

2pints
Trusted Member
2 years ago
Reply to  Twebur

This isn’t just pro sports either. I remember in HS back in Texas my buddy Billy Bob, who was the center for our football team, was bullied into playing through an obvious concussion by our Coach Kilmer and then our star QB Lance Harbor got injured when Billy Bob missed a block. It almost derailed our entire season, but thankfully the backup QB, Mox, stepped in and played well.

Twebur
Legend
2 years ago
Reply to  2pints

I played HS basketball half of my sophomore, all of my Junior season with a hairline fracture in my wrist. Played through it for one reason, I could mostly tolerate the pain and I lied about it. Not to be tough, because I wanted to play, no other reason. Paid for it in the end with a bone graft after it didn’t heal.

It’s unfortunate when coaches push kids with a concussion or other serious injury to play. If it’s known or suspected really disgusting and probably criminal.

2pints
Trusted Member
2 years ago
Reply to  Twebur

Yeah, the good thing in my case was that during halftime of the championship game Coach Kilmer walked out and Lance became the new coach, ensuring that future generations of teams/players wouldn’t have to endure Kilmer’s BS anymore. The whole thing gave me the blues though, some might even call them the Varsity Blues  😉 

Cowboy26
Legend
2 years ago
Reply to  2pints

You need call Rusty Hardin with this story he can probably get you and your old teammates some serious $$$$

gitchogritchoffmypettis
Legend
Reply to  2pints

I’m still mad at Mox for not helping me out of my whipped cream bikini. But in the end I got out of Texasville, TX and earned my cosmetology degree. Now I’ve been divorced by a truck driver.

Sports suck.

ihearhowie3.0
Super Member
2 years ago
Reply to  Designerguy

Aren’t players themselves also personally incentivized to play through pain so as not to diminish their market value by being perceived as injury prone?

I think the Angels could have done better but I agree that this is dumb

Cowboy26
Legend
2 years ago
Reply to 

Wow after reading this I’m surprised Barry Bonds didn’t sue the Giants for forcing him to grow a larger diameter head

Kay must not be singing too much or then why would he have not reached a plea deal yet in the criminal trial?

Last edited 2 years ago by Cowboy26
gitchogritchoffmypettis
Legend
Reply to 

This confirms that a couple of ladies really want some money.

eyespy
Super Member
2 years ago

And they should hold out for as much as they can. I really hope they don’t agree to a plea bargain.

2pints
Trusted Member
2 years ago
Reply to  eyespy

I could be wrong, but I think a plea bargain is in a criminal case. I think what you meant was that you hope they don’t settle out of court.

eyespy
Super Member
2 years ago
Reply to  2pints

Yes, settle, thank you Mr Quart

Cowboy26
Legend
2 years ago
Reply to  eyespy

Here I thought his alter ego was Captain Cuatro Cups

eyespy
Super Member
2 years ago
Reply to  Cowboy26

Could be 3Cs, I was just being respectful by using his professional name.

2pints
Trusted Member
2 years ago
Reply to  eyespy

Mr. Quart was my father, call me 2pints

eyespy
Super Member
2 years ago
Reply to  2pints

Sorreeeeeeeeee

Designerguy
Super Member
2 years ago
Reply to  eyespy

comment image

AKA_rmhalofan
Member
2 years ago
Reply to 

Didn’t Tyler die in Texas? Not saying fentanyl wasn’t delivered to Angels stadium on that day or that Tyler didn’t die of a fentanyl overdose, but how would he have died from THAT fentanyl?

steelgolf
Super Member
2 years ago
Reply to  AKA_rmhalofan

He died on travel day, the evening they had just arrived from Anaheim, where Tyler was sporting a cowboy hat as they were leaving, if memory serves me correctly.

Jim Atkins
Super Member
2 years ago

I just looked at the schedule, and there isn’t a game Sunday. That seems seriously weird. Anybody know the rationale?

Cowboy26
Legend
2 years ago
Reply to  Jim Atkins

The Angels ran out of pitchers?

Designerguy
Super Member
2 years ago
Reply to  Cowboy26

That problem started about 2017.

Twebur
Legend
2 years ago
Reply to  Jim Atkins

Several teams have a Friday or Saturday or Sunday off this year. Seattle in April had Friday and Sunday off. I don’t ever remember this happening. Maybe it’s a “mental health day” or “load management day”.

Last edited 2 years ago by Twebur
eyespy
Super Member
2 years ago
Reply to  Twebur

Fan Appreciation Day

Twebur
Legend
2 years ago

Federal prosecutors intend to prove that former Los Angeles Angels staffer Eric Kay ran a drug distribution operation that supplied illegal narcotics to several MLB players

https://sports.yahoo.com/feds-ex-angels-staffer-eric-kay-used-tyler-skaggs-as-middleman-to-deal-drugs-to-multiple-mlb-players-212429811.html

eyespy
Super Member
2 years ago
Reply to  Twebur

To me, “operation” and “middle-man” are two totally different things

Twebur
Legend
2 years ago
Reply to  eyespy

I didn’t hear of this before…..3 months before Skaggs death, not fired, sent to rehab?

Kay worked for the Angels from 2006 through 2019. The civil suit against the Angels alleges that Kay was a known drug abuser. He overdosed at Angel Stadium around three months prior to Skaggs’ death, according to Friday’s court filing. Prosecutors claim that law enforcement officers found traces of oxycodone and fentanyl on items seized from Kay’s work desk.

Senator_John_Blutarsky
Legend
Reply to  Twebur

Not good.

AnAngelsFan
Super Member
2 years ago

The press for firing a drug addict instead of letting him go to rehab and giving him a chance to turn his life around would have been worse.

Not to mention the headache of a worker’s compensation and employment lawsuit when Kay claimed the Angels made him work unreasonable hours without proper compensation at the threat of losing his job, which caused him so much stress and mental anxiety he relapsed.

Eric_in_Portland
Legend
2 years ago
Reply to  AnAngelsFan

like Cokehead.

Designerguy
Super Member
2 years ago
Reply to  Twebur

This probably falls under California labor law. If an employee voluntarily comes forward, in most cases you have to provide for a rehab option (doesn’t matter if it’s booze, drugs or anything else). Otherwise, you open yourself up to a massive wrongful dismissal lawsuit.

gitchogritchoffmypettis
Legend
Reply to  Designerguy

Yup. You pretty much can’t fire him if he admits he’s got a problem. But hey, don’t let the facts get in the way of a nice smeared mascaraed, runny nosed tirade.

Take it from someone who’d know, and if I piss anyone off I don’t care. Momma Skaggs doesn’t exactly strike me as a “Caesar’s Wife” type and I’m not really gonna buy all the dramatic flourishes in a civil complaint brought by her at face value. She totally has the right to try and sue. But I’m not believing her version of things just cause she’s the guys mom. For all I know she’s the one telling him to not be a puss and go out and pitch cause contracts don’t grow on trees.

AnAngelsFan
Super Member
2 years ago

Caveat: Generally, you can fire a drug addict who is a “current user” of drugs because the ADA and FEHA only protects alcoholics, former alcoholics, and former drug addicts. Also, enrolling in rehab does not automatically negate your status as a “current user” (although that argument might get you a settlement).

However, since the Angels employ more than 25 people, there is a separate California law that requires them to provide a reasonable accommodation to employees that ask to enroll in rehab. Thus, in this situation, the Angels could not have fired Kay.

As an aside, you can still fire someone for poor job performance even if the poor performance relates to the addiction. Thus, for example, you can’t fire an employee for being an alcoholic, but you can fire them for wrecking a company car while drunk.

gitchogritchoffmypettis
Legend
Reply to  AnAngelsFan

You can still get sued for firing a guy who is an addict for poor job performance if you know he’s an addict. I’ve seen it happen. I think you can probably pull it off if said addict starts a kitchen fire or wrecks a company car while high, but said addict can take action if you know they has an “illness” and you fire them for poor performance. The usual out is if the addict misses work enough times and it’s not for treatment, etc. At least that’s what the HR folks at my work are stuck with.

Thankfully most addicts can’t keep it together long enough to have much legal standing and wash out fast.

red floyd
Legend
2 years ago

I assume “was the proximate cause of the death of a valued employee” qualifies.

gitchogritchoffmypettis
Legend
Reply to  red floyd

As a way to prevent Kay from selling drugs to Skaggs so he can kill himself? I’m talking about firing Kay after his first known OD but before the Skaggs death.

AnAngelsFan
Super Member
2 years ago
Reply to  red floyd

It would be a really bad idea to fire Kay for poor performance because he sold drugs to Skaggs, because that would be an admission that selling drugs to Skaggs was part of his job.

matthiasstephan
Super Member
2 years ago
Reply to  AnAngelsFan

Unless the ‘poor performance’ was related to how much time he was spending ‘moonlighting’ as a drug dealer instead of doing his actual job.

AnAngelsFan
Super Member
2 years ago

Yes, you can definitely still get sued and it will probably get you a settlement. The question of whether “drugs affected your work performance” would be a question for the jury, and if you can get a case to the jury, you can get a big settlement before that.

Cowboy26
Legend
2 years ago
Reply to  AnAngelsFan

Do the Angels really employ more than 25 people? At least Half of that pitching staff shouldn’t even have a job

Jeff Joiner
Editor
Legend
2 years ago
Reply to  Twebur

Big scary words to say Kay copped enough pills to help cover his habit and that Tyler would sometimes hook other guys up. Kay’s texts show a guy buying 6 pills or so, maybe 20 once, not moving heavy weight.

I’ve never shied away from my past and this is exactly the way the drug scene worked when I was in it. E was the big party drug. One guy would get 20 at a discount, sell a few to his friends at regular freight, then keep 3-4 for himself for free.

That said, it would indicate that Tyler’s drug use was known among players. You know who to hit up for what. And if the other players are opposing players, that means his reputation really was out there.

Cowboy26
Legend
2 years ago
Reply to  Jeff Joiner

At the risk of getting eviscerated on this site, I have to ask: At what point is Tyler Skaggs not primarily responsible for Tyler Skaggs death?

AnAngelsFan
Super Member
2 years ago
Reply to  Cowboy26

When (if) the jury says so in the civil lawsuit.

At what point should Tyler Skaggs not be held primarily responsible for Tyler Skaggs’ own death? That’s a harder question to answer.

The question of whether Kay should be held criminally responsible for dealing illicit drugs is also significantly different than whether Skaggs’ is primarily responsible for his own death.

gitchogritchoffmypettis
Legend
Reply to  AnAngelsFan

Kay can totally be held responsible for selling Skaggs the drugs that killed him, along with all the special legal ramifications that come with selling drugs that happened to kill a guy. That’s the law and I’m cool with it.

eyespy
Super Member
2 years ago

And if he did it while on the clock, the team is liable too. Who owns the team?

2pints
Trusted Member
2 years ago
Reply to  eyespy

I really don’t get why so many here want this to hit Arte so badly. Can you explain why?

gitchogritchoffmypettis
Legend
Reply to  2pints

I hope it takes Arte in the pants because it will make me feel better about the general failure my life has become and the fact that, though I think I’m pretty smart and am a good person, no one seems willing to recognize and reward me while other people who I see as worse than me do well in life. I’m really humble, and it really makes me mad when other people who are less humble get stuff. Also, I drink to turn off the constant trickle of frustration and this gives me an inflated sense of righteousness and anger. So I pretty much auto-comment shit that points at Arte being an arch villain because I need a safe enemy to attack. My dad/boss/ex-wife/men who are actually in front of me have always been too big a threat. Arte’s safe.

But that’s just me. I don’t know what’s up with some of the other guys on this site.

eyespy
Super Member
2 years ago

If true, get help. If not, grow up.

gitchogritchoffmypettis
Legend
Reply to  eyespy

The only help for an avenging soul like myself is sweet sweet justice…. and if I’m still unhappy, more justice, until everyone I don’t like has been justiced and I see the world as a flat placid lake of equality.

Then, if I’m still unhappy, alcohol.

And I can’t grow up. Then I’d have to accept the fact that life isn’t fair and get on with it.

eyespy
Super Member
2 years ago

cool

eyespy
Super Member
2 years ago
Reply to  2pints

Well, I’m not so in the wanting for justice to be served against Arte, but I am against all of the supporters of laws but then enabling the things they ban.

These guys are the ones that allowed cocaine, greenies, alcohol, steroids, etc., etc. But at the same time supported the lawmakers to make these same things illegal, but at the same time keeping their property exempt for most of the punishment that the common citizen is sentenced to.

If the Angels ownership is found to have been enabling these actions, or what I feel would be worse it being blind negligence. It could open a whole can of worms for sports in the USA on who is accountable.

This is also why I am hoping that Tyler’s wife and mother go the distance with the lawsuit. Dig deep. I’m hoping that the other five players never played for the Halos. Spread the love.

This may be the straw that pushes the responsibility of who is enabling today to who is actually doing the harm to themselves..

gitchogritchoffmypettis
Legend
Reply to  eyespy

If there is any actual proof that Arte etc knew that Kay was selling drugs to players and didn’t turn him in then yeah, they are gonna get reamed as they should be. But there’s a big difference between believing there should be proof, really hoping there is proof and there actually being proof so we’ll have to see what scrubs out. It’s totally possible we’ll have some revelatory email (or something) revealed that totally screws the org. We just have to see.

In my life, as in many others lives, the solution to this problem was to, you know, stop using drugs. Or, as many of my friends have sadly done, continue using drugs until you die or kill someone.

I’m still not clear on who their loved ones are allowed to sue over this. Can dead rockstars sue their label?

AnAngelsFan
Super Member
2 years ago

I don’t even think there are allegations that Arte knew.

At worst, Tim Mead knew. Honestly, what are the odds Tim Mead went to Arte and said “Our employee Kay is dealing drugs but I don’t think we should fire him because it makes the players happy.”

AnAngelsFan
Super Member
2 years ago
Reply to  eyespy

As a general rule, employers are not liable for intentional torts committed by their employees, such as rape, assault, and selling drugs, nor should they be liable.

There are exceptions, which is why Skaggs’ family is going after Tim Mead.

eyespy
Super Member
2 years ago
Reply to  AnAngelsFan

Owners have been enablers for a long time.

They may put up a false wall between game and business.

A what happens in the clubhouse stays in the clubhouse. Make up their own laws that seem to supersede the real laws in society.

Owners are all the same from team sports to thoroughbreds. If doping makes them perform better, have at it.

gitchogritchoffmypettis
Legend
Reply to  eyespy

Which real laws in society are you referring to that they are superseding? I’m not saying they don’t exist, I just can’t think of them, you keep bringing them up, so maybe you know?

eyespy
Super Member
2 years ago

Beanballs. Bench clearing brawls. PEDs.

Whatever the Astros, Dodgers, and Red Sox were doing. Unless the MLB is like the WWE when it comes to competition.

gitchogritchoffmypettis
Legend
Reply to  eyespy

Huh?

AnAngelsFan
Super Member
2 years ago
Reply to  eyespy

So? It is not illegal to employ drug addicts and it does not make you liable for them taking drugs, even if they do it at work.

You are only liable if you are supplying them drugs. Here, Skaggs’ family needs to prove that Angels’ management knew Kay was dealing drugs, not just that he and Skaggs were taking drugs and partying together.

gitchogritchoffmypettis
Legend
Reply to  eyespy

Is that really the law? If so, can I see it? I’m curious how this liability works cause the company I work for is loaded…. and loaded.

Twebur
Legend
2 years ago
Reply to  Cowboy26

Truth is very difficult. No evisceration should be warranted.

Sad truth that we lose around 70,000 Americans every year under similar circumstances. Only hear about it when it involves the elites from our society.
With fentanyl out there, it’s Russian roulette.

gitchogritchoffmypettis
Legend
Reply to  Cowboy26

When there are no more billionaires to sue.

eyespy
Super Member
2 years ago
Reply to  Cowboy26

Never. There is always blame to give. Stupidity is charitable.

https://youtu.be/MKIaS0lh-uo

h27kim
Trusted Member
2 years ago
Reply to  Twebur

Feds always exaggerate and make it sound like everyone they are prosecuting is Al Capone, though.

Designerguy
Super Member
2 years ago
Twebur
Legend
2 years ago
Reply to  Designerguy

Could be listing to the game on the radio……

Senator_John_Blutarsky
Legend
Reply to  Designerguy

What do you have in the cooler?

Twebur
Legend
2 years ago

……his pants.

eyespy
Super Member
2 years ago

Has to be in the GameThread. Thems da rules.

red floyd
Legend
2 years ago
Reply to  Designerguy

Did you get arrested?

Designerguy
Super Member
2 years ago
Reply to  red floyd

If being built like a Greek god and having chiseled features is a crime, well, then I’m guilty as charged.

red floyd
Legend
2 years ago
Reply to  Designerguy

Only if that Greek god is Dionysus from Fantasia.

Cowboy26
Legend
2 years ago
Reply to  red floyd

If you were the greek God of Walks we could really use you.

Designerguy
Super Member
2 years ago
Reply to  Cowboy26

Would you settle for a Ministry of Silly Walks?

https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x2hwqki

eyespy
Super Member
2 years ago
Reply to  Designerguy

Liar liar pants on fire

Designerguy
Super Member
2 years ago
Reply to  eyespy

The assumption is I’m wearing pants. If they’re on fire, it’s not my buns getting toasted.

[stands arms akimbo]

Senator_John_Blutarsky
Legend
Reply to  Designerguy

“Chestnuts roasting over an open fire, JackFrost nipping at your nose….”

red floyd
Legend
2 years ago

Chestnuts, not man nuts.

eyespy
Super Member
2 years ago
Reply to  red floyd

Deez Nuts???

Cowboy26
Legend
2 years ago
Reply to  Designerguy

But can he pitch?

WallyChuckChili
Legend
2 years ago

How many young future fans did the Angels lose by losing the LL game. Besides a Bubba long foul ball, it was all the Indians.

Only bright spot is that the Indians didn’t gain any new fans, Since there will be no Indians team next year.

2pints
Trusted Member
2 years ago

Seeing Trout and Ohtani signing autographs for the kids makes me think your assessment is flawed.

YOUknowulovetheIE
Trusted Member
2 years ago

Question for the fans. Non bias answers please. Did miggy deserve the mvp over trout in 2012? I know the advanced stats make the argument lean towards trout, but that triple crown gave it to miggy. If trout beats raises him batting avg to 330, he wins it imo.

Senator_John_Blutarsky
Legend

I objectively believe Trout had as a good a season as Miggy did in 2012. I thought the difference was that Detroit won the central that year and the Angels finished 3rd in the west (even with a .549 win percentage)

2pints
Trusted Member
2 years ago

My argument that I’ve made many times:

Miggy had the triple crown – Trout had the triple crown of lead off hitters. highest OBP, most runs scored & most stolen bases.

Detroit made the playoffs and Halos did not – Not only did the Halos have a better season record than Detroit in a much tougher division, but after Trout was called up the Halos had the best record in the AL.

AnAngelsFan
Super Member
2 years ago
Reply to  2pints

Trout didn’t actually do that. He was third in OBP behind Mauer and Fielder.

Speaking of Fielder, both he and Verlander were top-10 finishers in MVP voting with more than 10%. Detroit might have made the playoffs, but the award is most valuable player, not most valuable teammates.

2pints
Trusted Member
2 years ago
Reply to  AnAngelsFan

Dammit! Well my second point stands 🙂

AnAngelsFan
Super Member
2 years ago
Reply to  2pints

As far as I know, yes, it does.

red floyd
Legend
2 years ago
Reply to  AnAngelsFan

And apparently Miggy was more valuable than Trout because Cokehead couldn’t hit two more HR.

Jeff Joiner
Editor
Legend
2 years ago

Simply, no.

Miggy was a great hitter.
Trout was a great hitter, fielder, and base runner.

The fact it became an old school vs. new school debate clouded the obvious.

AnAngelsFan
Super Member
2 years ago

Trout wins if he gets to .330 avg? Do you realize that was only 3 hits? With just 3 more hits Trout would have had .331 avg.

It’s ludricous to argue Miggy deserved it because of 3 hits. Trout’s additional .06 in OBP was at least as good as Miggy’s additional .04 in AVG. Now, Miggy did have a substantially higher slugging of .606 compared to .564. However, Trout had 49 stolen bases compared to 4 If you add net steals as total bases and calculate a revised SLG, Trout comes out at .642 compared to .611. Thus, there is a strong argument Trout was the better offensive player.

However, a single + stolen base isn’t quite as good as a double or home run, so it is reasoanble to argue they were equally valuable offensively. Of course, Trout’s 2012 blows Miggy’s out of the water once you consider their defensive contributions, so conceding equal offensive contributions doesn’t justify Miggy winning the award.

Trout deserved the MVP. Even if you agree every sport should adopt a horse racing term for a particular statistical accomplishment, the batting triple crown in baseball would make far more sense if it used OBP rather than AVG (in which case Miggy wouldn’t have won). And there has to be a myriad of stats that would be better than RBIs. Something like % of RBI opportunities converted, or even hits + BB + Sacs with runners on base would be a better stat for the triple crown.

red floyd
Legend
2 years ago
Reply to  AnAngelsFan

Let’s not forget that Cokehead was only one HR behind Miggy. Had Cokehead hit two more HR, then no Triple Crown for Miggy.

Last edited 2 years ago by red floyd
AnAngelsFan
Super Member
2 years ago
Reply to  red floyd

Lol, exactly. The Angels played the Rangers in their second-to-last series that year and Hamilton didn’t go deep once. Imagine if they threw him a couple of softballs to propel Trout into 1st place for the MVP voting.

That would have been morally wrong, but it highlights the absurdity of selecting a MVP because he got a “Triple Crown.”

TheOrangeCurtain
Trusted Member
2 years ago

Cool. Baltimore has lost 18 in a row, they’re due for a W soon. And the pathetically underachieving Halos are limping into Baltimore now. I love my team, but I’m so exasperated just hoping they’ll somehow rip off a nice winning streak and rise way above .500.

Senator_John_Blutarsky
Legend

So we’re set up to be swept. Got it.

Designerguy
Super Member
2 years ago

Crab cakes with a side of buttercup.

red floyd
Legend
2 years ago
Reply to  Designerguy

And LOBsters.

eyespy
Super Member
2 years ago
Reply to  red floyd

GET gOUT

Jim Atkins
Super Member
2 years ago

Kind of seems to me that the Kay trial is possibly the first step in Arte selling the team. The trial is going to implicate Mead, no way around it. At that point, with the scandal inside the highest ranks of the front office, MLB puts some quiet heat on Arte to unload the team at a significant profit and get out of MLB so they can kind of whitewash this scandal. Manfred, MLB central, and the other owners REALLY don’t want an ownership scandal like this hanging over their heads.

eyespy
Super Member
2 years ago
Reply to  Jim Atkins

Someone was in Williamsport, giving good, could have been better, press.

2pints
Trusted Member
2 years ago
Reply to  Jim Atkins

There would need to be solid evidence, like a video, recording or documents, showing that Arte was aware of this to push Arte to sell. Donald Sterling wasn’t pushed out until the racist recording came out, even though everyone knew how awful he was already. I think that this causing Arte to sell the team is a pipe dream. I also think that there’s a 50/50 chance that if Arte were to sell the team we could end up with a worse owner.

Cowboy26
Legend
2 years ago
Reply to  2pints

So now we’re comparing Arte to Donald Sterling? Seriously? Arte Moreno is not been unmasked as a MLB drug cartel kingpin that would now force a sale of the team. And the last time I checked Incompetency is not a reason that the league could use to kick out any team owners. (Or there would be a constant revolving door.)

Hell, considering that the Wilpons were able to survive the Bernie Madoff debacle, Arte ain’t going anywhere.

2pints
Trusted Member
2 years ago
Reply to  Cowboy26

Sterling is the only owner I could think of where the league forced him to sell due to a scandal. I don’t think the two are comparable in any way, nor do I think he should or will be forced to sell the team. I was merely responding to the comment about it, not advocating for it.

2002heaven
Super Member
2 years ago
Reply to  2pints

Frank McCourt & Eddie DeBartolo with the 49’ers. What did McCourt do wrong BTW besides not being able to afford being the owner of MLB’s 3rd most valuable franchise behind the Yankees and RS? NFL took away the Niner’s away from DeBartolo because he was linked to bribery allegations to a Louisiana law maker. Bottomline is it’s easier to loose your team for wrong doing than in the past……….YAYYYYYYY!!!!!!! There’s hope!!!!!!!

Jeff Joiner
Editor
Legend
2 years ago
Reply to  2002heaven

McCourt disgraced the league by filing for BK. He exceeded the agreed upon allowance for debt and was unable to effectively run his franchise. Arte is none of that.

DeBartolo bribed a lawmaker and the NFL was pretending to not like gambling. Still, a crime was proven to have occured.

If there’s a paper trail linking Arte to the drug dealing, he’ll be in the same boat as DeBartolo. But unless that happens, he’s not in the conversation.

gitchogritchoffmypettis
Legend
Reply to  Jeff Joiner

Exactly. Arte makes money and he spends money. It’s nothing like Sterling even without the racism. He holds the line on the luxury tax. Other owners aren’t gonna risk replacing that without a really good reason no matter how many bitches keen for it on the interwebs.

Arte’s two or three good FA signings away from being 2000s Steinbrenner instead of 80s Steinbrenner.

gitchogritchoffmypettis
Legend
Reply to  2pints

No. Anyone who would buy a baseball team will certainly be a better owner than Arte. It’s science.

eyespy
Super Member
2 years ago

Until he isn’t. That my friend is the CTPGs mentality, the one you are proudly a part of, with me.

gitchogritchoffmypettis
Legend
Reply to  eyespy

As is well known. I think Arte’s fine as an owner. Not good, but OK. He’s not gonna sell the team if he has all this land to develop. My real thinking though is that, while there is a chance a new owner could be well healed enough to buy the Angels yet still suck, like the Ricketts with the Cubs, I think there’s a better than 50/50 chance a new owner wouldn’t spring for a team this expensive without a plan to try and win.

My main fear is that they can still make plenty of mistakes. Much like hiring Maddon, just “bringing in baseball people” doesn’t actually accomplish jack shit. Ask the Mets.

Fleckstein
Trusted Member
2 years ago

Yeah, doesn’t anyone remember when Disney owned the team and brought cheerleaders to games? I’d rather have Arte than the Mouse House as owners.

red floyd
Legend
2 years ago
Reply to  Fleckstein

The Mouse was smart enough to hire baseball guys to run the team, and LET them run the team.

eyespy
Super Member
2 years ago
Reply to  red floyd

And win it all

steelgolf
Super Member
2 years ago
Reply to  Jim Atkins

Arte is not selling just yet, at least not because of this scandal. He will move forward on his vision for the stadium parking lot development, etc.

2002heaven
Super Member
2 years ago
Reply to  steelgolf

You sound hopeful…….

Cowboy26
Legend
2 years ago
Reply to  2002heaven

You sound Dope full

2002heaven
Super Member
2 years ago
Reply to  Cowboy26

You should FO……..Arte supporter.

gitchogritchoffmypettis
Legend
Reply to  2002heaven

comment image

gitchogritchoffmypettis
Legend
Reply to  Jim Atkins

…. and I finally get a date with Eva Green…..

Fansince1971
Legend
2 years ago

I believe Tim Mead provides the link needed to reach upper management for punitive damages against the Organization in the civil case.

However I seriously doubt that anyone goes to jail or is prosecuted in the Federal criminal case other than Eric Kay. I hope he goes away for a very long time.

Cowboy26
Legend
2 years ago
Reply to  Fansince1971

Exactly. The Angels involvement is more about their deep pockets for the Civil trial than anything involving the Feds. The last time I checked there are no criminal charges being pursued against any other current/former Angel employee or executive other than Eric Kay. Considering the Justice Departments tried & true shotgun approach where everyone gets charged in order to illicit multiple signing canaries I really doubt they have anything remotely substantial on Tim Mead, Tom Taylor or anyone else in the Angel Hierarchy.

losangel
Trusted Member
2 years ago
Reply to  Fansince1971

Do you think Skaggs would want Eric Kay to “go away for a very long time” like you do?

2002heaven
Super Member
2 years ago
Reply to  Fansince1971

Yes of course.
This isn’t the US Military where the buck stops way up the chain of command…….
People with Stars, Eagles and silver oak leaf clusters can end up in jail too.

GrandpaBaseball
Legend
2 years ago

Eric Kay is a drug dealer. That is plain and simple as it gets. The real question now comes as how many more people are going to lose their careers over this and why did not someone come forward prior to outcomes that could not be reversed. I am sickened that this has happened to our team under Arturo Moreno’s ownership. Tim Mead tried to get out with taking no responsivity for what was left in his wake. Please Angels and Lawyers do not tell us who the other players who involved are, just get them help as needed.

As for Eric Kay he should be prosecuted to the fullest. Arte should be held accountable too as him likes to be involved in all aspects of the team.

Charles Sutton
Editor
Super Member
2 years ago

Kay has a constitutional right to confront his accusers. If guys are going to testify against him, their identity will be revealed. I’m hoping they already got help.

Senator_John_Blutarsky
Legend

The 5 names will come out, they may still be in MLB but not necessarily with the Angels. The Kay trial starts in October, those involved will likely start disclosure in the time between the end of the regular season and the playoffs starting.

Charles Sutton
Editor
Super Member
2 years ago

Perry really cleaned house with Angels pitching last offseason. Maybe all five of those guys are gone now.

2pints
Trusted Member
2 years ago
Reply to  Charles Sutton

No reason to assume the 5 guys are all pitchers.

Cowboy26
Legend
2 years ago
Reply to  2pints

An obvious but educated guess is that one of them is the Heandog. This story that was published months prior to TS’s death showed that Heaney had been dealing with his own demons. https://www.ocregister.com/2019/04/05/angels-andrew-heaney-opens-up-about-mental-emotional-toll-of-injuries/

steelgolf
Super Member
2 years ago
Reply to  Charles Sutton

We don’t even know if the other 5 were all ex-Angels. For all we know they could be players for other teams who never played for The Angels. maybe players from other teams that Skaggs has played for. DBacks?

Jeff Joiner
Editor
Legend
2 years ago
Reply to  steelgolf

Exactly. Could be any players from any team.

eyespy
Super Member
2 years ago
Reply to  Charles Sutton

Who says they a pitchers? Who says they are recent players? Who says they played for the Angels?

ihearhowie3.0
Super Member
2 years ago

I’m sure it’s been mentioned elsewhere this weekend on here but the Eric Kay stuff seems bleak for Arte or at least (sadly) Tim Mead.

The guy OD’d at the stadium and a co-worker took him to the hospital but nobody in the organization knew he was on drugs and acting recklessly around his workplace?

If this scandal doesn’t get the executive cohort of Arte’s buddies booted I don’t know if anything will. Most organizations would view this as a red alert to change the people in charge.

Jeff Joiner
Editor
Legend
2 years ago
Reply to  ihearhowie3.0

It does look horrible. I do wonder about the timeline, though. Other documents have already stated Kay was hospitalized and went to rehab. That Mead visited Kay in a hospital.

Is this the same OD?

steelgolf
Super Member
2 years ago
Reply to  Jeff Joiner

And visiting someone in the hospital does not mean that he knew Kay was dealing drugs to players or others in the Angels organization or MLB. It is going to be very interesting seeing what comes out in this trial.

Jeff Joiner
Editor
Legend
2 years ago
Reply to  steelgolf

Good point. Knowing your employee, possibly friend, is in the hospital and needs help is different from knowing that person is dealing pills to your other employees.

GrandpaBaseball
Legend
2 years ago

Being swept by Cleveland Indians is very sad with poor performance with the bats. Seems brutal but as our pitching has been improving more pitchers on the team are getting hurt. I hope that everything will work out for next season health wise. As for Trouty returning tis season I ask Why? To take a chance of reinjury is just not smart.

Fansince1971
Legend
2 years ago

Agreed Trout should not play this season and he likely will not. However I am sure the lure of September ticket sales for a mediocre team may have the Organization considering it.

Jeff Joiner
Editor
Legend
2 years ago

If it helps Trout and the training staff plan his off season, then bring him back for a few weeks. If not, shut him down. There needs to be a reason for him to come back.

eyespy
Super Member
2 years ago
Reply to  Jeff Joiner

The reason, is to play. It’s in the name of the job.

Charles Sutton
Editor
Super Member
2 years ago

The playoff odds appear to have been downgraded to 0.0% so no more pressure to win games or anything.

Last edited 2 years ago by Charles Sutton
Fansince1971
Legend