LA Angels Tuesday News Crash: It Depends

On MLB.com’s list of which teams will be buyers and which will be sellers, Rhett Bollinger lists the Angels as “Both.”  In reading his remarks, it seems that he might have meant “It depends.”  The Pirates acquired Dillon Peters from the Angels for cash considerations.

Links From Around Baseball

The Marlins and Starling Marte have failed to come to an agreement concerning an extension of his contract.  He is very likely to be traded by the July 30 trade deadline.  To deepen the Marlins’ woes even further, Jazz Chisholm Jr. and Garrett Cooper were both injured in the same game over the weekend. 

Francisco Lindor is injured.  The Mets may be experiencing some buyer’s remorse at this point. To deepen the Mets’ woes even further, Jacob deGrom is also injured with the dreaded forearm tightness. 

Mookie Betts went down with a hip injury.  To deepen the Dodgers’ woes even further, Gavin Lux came down with a hamstring injury. 

Jake Fraley of the Mariners tested positive for COVID-19 on Saturday. 

Kole Calhoun was the victim of a rather bizarre double play when the Diamondbacks played the Cubs. 

MLB continues to suggest that the seven inning double header rule will be discontinued this winter.  Unfortunately, the man on second in extra innings rule may persist in some form. 

Photo credit: Rex Fregosi

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benjiface
Trusted Member
9 days ago

Can anybody with an Atheltic subscription tell us what Keith Law said about the Angels’ draft?

AnAngelsFan
Trusted Member
9 days ago
Reply to  benjiface

In sum, taking college seniors to fill out the AZL roster doesn’t address the needs for pitching at the MLB level, but if the Angels can sign the top 13 picks it will provide a pretty strong injection of pitching into the system.

Also some discussion on individual players.

Cowboy26
Super Member
9 days ago
Reply to  AnAngelsFan

He also said Bachman has some really filthy shit but he hasn’t been able to stay healthy and isn’t convinced he can stay healthy at the next level.

MarineLayer
Trusted Member
8 days ago
Reply to  Cowboy26

This is what I’ve been saying.

steelgolf
Trusted Member
9 days ago
Reply to  Twebur

Rengifo at 3rd base. I’ll expect a bonehead defensive play followed by an 0-4 at the plate.

Cowboy26
Super Member
9 days ago
Reply to  steelgolf

4 fly balls to medium center?

red floyd
Super Member
9 days ago
Reply to  Cowboy26

comment image

Twebur
Trusted Member
9 days ago
Reply to  steelgolf

…he will do the full Rengifo

Twebur
Trusted Member
Twebur
Trusted Member
9 days ago
Reply to  Twebur

Trout vs Albert 1st to 3rd.
Trout -110 favorite.

Fat man running……

Last edited 9 days ago by Twebur
JackFrost
Super Member
9 days ago
Reply to  Twebur

Trout would be more than -110. Probably Trout -290 at least.

BruinsAngelsKings
Member
9 days ago
Reply to  Twebur

Practicing his home run trot.

Jeff Joiner
Editor
Super Member
9 days ago

Interesting play on Kole and rather unlike him. He had to hit the dirt there to preserve his life. That ball was zinging right at his dome. But you’d think he’d get up and make it to first.

That’s not interference by the first baseman, but there seems to be a logical case that Kole only didn’t make it to first due to the throw being at his head.

matthiasstephan
Trusted Member
9 days ago
Reply to  Jeff Joiner

Am I right in thinking that if he had been hit by the ball, he would have been safe at first and the run would score?

Jeff Joiner
Editor
Super Member
9 days ago

I think so.

No way Kole was going to take that to the dome though.

AnAngelsFan
Trusted Member
9 days ago

If a runner intentionally deflects a thrown ball it is interference, so technically it would be a judgment call as to whether Kole intentionally headbutted the ball.

Note, the batter-runner is also out if 1) he is outside the running lane and 2) a throw TO 1st base hits him, and 3) the throw was catchable (because the interference applies to interfering with the player trying to catch the ball, not the one throwing it.) This rule doesn’t apply here since the throw was to home.

Last edited 9 days ago by AnAngelsFan
Eric_in_Portland
Super Member
9 days ago

Lifetime batting average

Brandon Marsh, .375
Ty Cobb, .366

FungoAle
Trusted Member
9 days ago

Hey, maybe we got something here.

angelslogic
Super Member
9 days ago

It wasn’t so much that Cishek gave up a home run (a solo shot is not that difficult to overcome), it was that he WALKED the two batters prior to that. There in no excuse for that. None.

JackFrost
Super Member
9 days ago
Reply to  angelslogic

Hit the nail on the head.

FungoAle
Trusted Member
9 days ago
Reply to  angelslogic

Outside of Rasiel, Perry lives to sign pitchers with lack of command.

Christianhanson
Trusted Member
9 days ago
Reply to  FungoAle

I would argue picking up Raisel was more or less something he ran into rather than a personal selection. D-Cell has been good his whole career, some of the other guys have really underperformed. However the high walk rates on this team are almost cancerous to a good pitching philosophy.

gitchogritchoffmypettis
Super Member

How do you “run into” calling a team and making a trade instead of that being a “personal selection”?

gitchogritchoffmypettis
Super Member
Reply to  FungoAle

Cishek truly sucks. Still, the primary reason, other than lack of a third pitch, that a pitcher ends up in a bullpen is lack of command. So, are you a GM? Yes? OK, did you sign a few relievers other than the top 5 closers in the game? Yes? Then you “live to” sign pitchers with a lack of command.

I friggin hate bullpens. What’s driving me nuts is that Watson was a low BB guy. So was Claudio. Cishek was OK. They are all veterans with track records, it’s not like it was up to Matt Wise to help them find their mechanics, etc. These three guys, plus Iglesias, should have added up to a fairly improved bullpen. But no, they all have walk totals that are up way over an extra walk per nine.

And no, “I knew they were gonna suck” guy, you didn’t. Just like you weren’t clamoring for Kendall Graveman, Craig Kimbrel, Hansel Robles or Brad Boxberger back in January. Chad Green. Chad Green is really good this year? WTF?

I hate relief pitchers.

gitchogritchoffmypettis
Super Member
Reply to  angelslogic

He is a frustrating reliever and I look forward to him being replaced by some curious new arm.

admkir
Trusted Member
9 days ago

Can we get a bucket of balls for CC [ Cishek & Claudio]?

red floyd
Super Member
9 days ago
Reply to  admkir

You may be overvaluing them.

YOUknowulovetheIE
Trusted Member
9 days ago

Glad to see marsh get some consistent playing time. Sandoval, fletch, and walsh had to force the angels to give them it. Unreal.

h27kim
Trusted Member
9 days ago

The best case scenario for ’21 Angels: somewhat ironically, probably an analogue of ’95 Mariners–the offense is quite good even without several key players, and likely to be downright scary in September if everyone is back at near 100% by then. Pitching is generally terrible, but there are a couple of great pieces that could help in a short series. (i.e. Trout = Griffey; Ohtani the Pitcher = R. Johnson, even if he looks less scary). Kinda weird and improbable, but the thought seemed to have a couple of legs and seemed interesting.

DMAGZ13
Trusted Member
9 days ago

Giving up 3 runs sucks, but the loss isn’t in the bullpen. The offense has to muster more than the pathetic showing over the past week.

Marsh is going to be great, just learn from the pros how to take care of his body.

However no Trout and shitty or injured Rendon the whole year is going to kill us. That’s like 7WAR off the projections. There’s only so much Mayfield and Gosselin you can take.

Jayman28
Member
9 days ago
Reply to  DMAGZ13

Just don’t get body maintenance advice from Kevin Kiermaier who is made out of glass because he likes body slamming the walls and turf, that applies to Pollack, Eaton, and Brantley too

Cowboy26
Super Member
9 days ago
Reply to  Jayman28

I’m sure there would be a good veteran mentor out there to help Marsh maintain his body while playing everyday at a top level without reckless abandon. But I’m too G.A. to search for that guy.

JackFrost
Super Member
9 days ago
Reply to  Jayman28

He’s the guy who likes to sprint 40 yds to reach across the face and body of his teammate to snatch fly ball outs from their gloves!

JackFrost
Super Member
9 days ago
Reply to  DMAGZ13

This is a good post. Even though Cishek was a major letdown last night, we had scored a grand total of ZERO runs to that point. Scoring 0 runs through 6 innings is not going to win you alot of games.

That said, we should have had at least one if not for a horrible missed call (catcher’s interference that impeded Fletcher from scoring) by BOTH the HP umpire AND the video review in New York/New Jersey or wherever it is. Good chance that early run and the momentum it created would have changed the course of that game completely and allowed us to add on more…

Does anyone else think it is odd that EVERY late inning or otherwise major, impactful review decision has gone against us this season, even when there was good video evidence to the contrary?

Last edited 9 days ago by JackFrost
Cowboy26
Super Member
9 days ago
Reply to  JackFrost

This started back In Houston over the lame base line running obstruction case against Walsh . What also us interesting, even when there is clearly not enough definitive proof to overturn a play at the plate, New York still does it anyways , ALWAYS taking runs off of the board for us.

JackFrost
Super Member
9 days ago
Reply to  Cowboy26

Yep. Don’t forget, in Houston there was another game changing/deciding blown review on that ball hit by Brantley against Raisel. Video showed it was clearly foul, and it was even called foul in the game I believe. Then NY REVERSED the decision and called it fair even though the original call was foul !!

Cowboy26
Super Member
9 days ago
Reply to  JackFrost

I don’t want to be conspiratorial , but this cant be happening at this rate against any other team. WTF is going on?

Cowboy26
Super Member
9 days ago
Reply to  Cowboy26

I think Arte needs to go all old Al Davis on Manfred

Christianhanson
Trusted Member
9 days ago
Reply to  Cowboy26

I doubt MLB wants to snub the Angels from the playoffs

JackFrost
Super Member
9 days ago

You have no idea what they want or don’t want.

JackFrost
Super Member
9 days ago
Reply to  Cowboy26

Good question. Very good question.

One thing that is almost certain; this is not merely an issue of umpire incompetence. If that were the case the result would be more random and not so specifically directed at us….

Christianhanson
Trusted Member
9 days ago
Reply to  JackFrost

I agree but it would argue that there is nothing to it. Calls go sideways for every team, its just that when you are not a great team those calls usually are the difference between winning and losing majority of the time.

JackFrost
Super Member
9 days ago

We are not just talking about regular “calls” in the course of a game.

When something is reviewed there is a very close examination of the play in question. Time and careful attention are paid in order to come up with the correct decision. Under these circumstances they should be right 99.9% of the time. If the video evidence is not strong enough to overturn the call on the field then let it stand.

That is not what is happening. We are having calls overturned, that go against us and in favor of our opposition despite strong video evidence to the contrary. That is not just “calls” going sideways.

Fansince1971
Super Member
9 days ago

I woke up this morning and still am pissed. This team has a chance to be great with even a decent bullpen. Add a front line starting pitcher and it could be World Series time.

And the thing that really gets me is all of us have been saying it for years. It’s been a mantra. Pitching pitching pitching!!!! So how come it doesn’t happen? It’s maddening!!

It’s one thing to truly suck and just live with it. But it’s another thing to be SO CLOSE and see the missing pieces so glaringly.

It’s frustrating enough that I need a little break. I’m going to skip today and tomorrow (off day) and not pay attention at all. Then I’ll root hard for a 6-1 type performance at Minnesota and Colorado.

eyespy
Super Member
9 days ago
Reply to  Fansince1971

Looks like someone has the case of the Roadhouse Blues.

Enjoy the vaycay friend, but like any vaycay you will need to return to reality if you choose.

Cowboy26
Super Member
9 days ago
Reply to  eyespy

Man you just got to let it roll. You know the future’s uncertain but the end is always near

JackFrost
Super Member
9 days ago
Reply to  Cowboy26

He’s got to keep his eyes on the road and his hands upon the wheel. Then he’ll have a real good time !

Christianhanson
Trusted Member
9 days ago
Reply to  Fansince1971

Save the blood pressure my dude, focus on what really matters!

benjiface
Trusted Member
9 days ago

Doug Eddings blowing a call at home plate that goes against the Angels. That’s never happened before! 🤥 😡

MarineLayer
Trusted Member
9 days ago
Reply to  benjiface

It’s hard to believe that idiot still has a job. Well, not really.

gitchogritchoffmypettis
Super Member
Reply to  benjiface

I am curious, is there an umpire we don’t hate? I seem to be pissed off at a different name every few days.

WallyChuckChili
Super Member
GrandpaBaseball
Super Member
9 days ago

The man on second rule should start in the 12th not 10th if it must be used. To charge the public for a 7 inning game is criminal.

We all knew that Marsh would be better than Adell. So happy for this young man. Is it time to move Trouty to RF? Less wear and tear. Walsh is more than capable in RF, and play Mike at 1st base a couple of games a week. Mike is very injury prone so make it easier for him.

JackFrost
Super Member
9 days ago

While I am glad to see Marsh get his first MLB hit and first multi-hit game, and am hopeful he will succeed at this level, I do feel it is just a bit too soon to be anointing him as the new, everyday CF for the Angels.

Unfortunately, he will have to prove himself over time to earn that spot Grandpa.

benjiface
Trusted Member
9 days ago
Reply to  JackFrost

I agree, although the “prove-it” logic is annoying (though sometimes true). The egos that enter into these decisions often hurt baseball teams more than they help

JackFrost
Super Member
9 days ago
Reply to  benjiface

I think if Marsh plays well the rest will work itself out. Whether he is in RF or CF is less important right now. The main thing is that he can develop in such a way that we’ll have another productive bat in the lineup and be solid defensively at whatever spot he plays.

Cowboy26
Super Member
9 days ago

And then move Trouty back to CF if (when) Marsh mellow gets injured?

Jim Atkins
Trusted Member
9 days ago

Wow, the Mets and Lindor is kind of Mo Vaughn-esque. So just how much rope does Cishek have with Maddon? The guy is digging himself in deeper and deeper, yet Joe keeps on trotting him out there.

smithy610
Member
9 days ago
Reply to  Jim Atkins

Who else is Maddon going to put out there? The only respectable reliever is Iglesias, and he can’t pitch 3 innings a night.

Jim Atkins
Trusted Member
9 days ago
Reply to  smithy610

True. Honestly, this inability of this team to come up with pitching in any capacity is a world-class mystery. Even when we had scouts, it wasn’t working.

Cowboy26
Super Member
9 days ago
Reply to  Jim Atkins

Maybe that was Arte’s point. If you suck either way whats the sense of having the added burden of paying scouts?

eyespy
Super Member
9 days ago
Reply to  Cowboy26

No scouts is being cheap, bad teams is to save money.

benjiface
Trusted Member
9 days ago
Reply to  smithy610

Watson is having a decent year, and pitched another scoreless inning last night. He’s been better than Cishek

benjiface
Trusted Member
9 days ago
Reply to  benjiface

Watson’s stats are skewed in large part by one horrific appearance

AnAngelsFan
Trusted Member
9 days ago
Reply to  benjiface

Good catch. I didn’t dig that deep. Watson has only given up an earned in 4 of his 20 appearances. He just looks worse than Cishek at a casual glance because he gave up 10 runs over the course of 2 games without recording a single out.

benjiface
Trusted Member
9 days ago
Reply to  AnAngelsFan

And I don’t care about FIP and WAR in this instance. Cishek has been bad. He’s allowing over 1.5 baserunners per inning pitched as well. He’s been brutal.

benjiface
Trusted Member
9 days ago
Reply to  benjiface

I’m very much an advanced stats fan, but I have eyeballs too, my eyeballs tell me Cishek has been poor this season.

MarineLayer
Trusted Member
9 days ago
Reply to  benjiface

My eyes say Cishek is a gimmick pitcher and MLB batters have figured him out.

AnAngelsFan
Trusted Member
9 days ago
Reply to  benjiface

No doubt Cishek has been awful, particularly with inherited runners. But most of the bullpen has been terrible.

The end result is that Cishek is the guy who should be brought in to replace the starter at the beginning of the 6th or 7th inning.

red floyd
Super Member
9 days ago
Reply to  AnAngelsFan

And how did that work out yesterday?

AnAngelsFan
Trusted Member
9 days ago
Reply to  red floyd

As well as it possibly could have.

The Angels lost, but they avoided increasing the risk of injury to pitchers by giving Cishek his fair share of the workload at a time when it makes the most sense to use him.

JackFrost
Super Member
9 days ago
Reply to  benjiface

Good point. We all know that ERA for relief pitchers can be very deceiving. Alot of stiffs will let inherited runners score (thus hurting the numbers of the departing SP AND their team) but then get out of jams when the baserunners belong to them…

If I remember correctly Cishek is one of those dudes who lets inherited runners score at a high rate…

Last edited 9 days ago by JackFrost
Cowboy26
Super Member
9 days ago
Reply to  JackFrost

Have you forgotten so soon? The Cheese Shit leads the Majors in IRS by a country mile.

JackFrost
Super Member
9 days ago
Reply to  Cowboy26

Yeah, that’s why I mentioned it. Though I forgot he was Numero Uno in shitting the inherited runners bed.

Last edited 9 days ago by JackFrost
red floyd
Super Member
9 days ago
Reply to  JackFrost

He’s something like 22 out of 45.

MarineLayer
Trusted Member
9 days ago
Reply to  smithy610

This. Can’t blame Madden for having ZERO reliable options.

Jeff Joiner
Editor
Super Member
9 days ago
Reply to  smithy610

Wantz is the only middle reliever I want to see. But he’d pitched Sunday.

Twebur
Trusted Member
9 days ago
Reply to  Jeff Joiner

We all Wantz to see more of him…..and less of the usual suspects.
I also think we Wantz, Cishek that, needs a new pitching coach.
Joe may never manage pitching well. But having better pitching will make it easier to manage.

Cowboy26
Super Member
9 days ago
Reply to  Twebur

I think it was building up that way and then Wantz goes all Rick Ankiel on the M’s on Sunday. That really set us back.

AnAngelsFan
Trusted Member
9 days ago
Reply to  Jim Atkins

I have bad new for you. Cishek is one of the better relievers on the team by ERA and FIP.
The only three better relievers are Wantz (8th inning), Iglesias (9th inning) and Rodriguez (in the minors).

I’m not sure whether Cishek is the best option to come in mid-inning when there are inherited runners, but he was definitely the right call to start the 7th inning last night.

Jeff Joiner
Editor
Super Member
9 days ago
Reply to  AnAngelsFan

Cishek allowing half his inherited runners to score only screws up everyone else’s ERA.

Dude is garbage right now and has been for a couple of months. He belongs on mop up duty until he either figures it out or is released.

Christianhanson
Trusted Member
9 days ago
Reply to  AnAngelsFan

I don’t blame Joe for putting Cishek in there if Ohtani has thrown a 110 plus pitches, but Ohtani wasn’t done yet and he was only at 93. He could have got through one more inning or at least a few more batters hopefully. To me the frustrating thing is that Ohtani is his best pitcher and yet he treats him with kid gloves while he is dominating, just to bring a horrible reliever. It was not a situation where he should have gone to the pen early.

Jeff Joiner
Editor
Super Member
9 days ago

I get that but the offense had scored zero runs. At some point Cishek was going to be brought in with predictable results. At this point we’re just debating at which point he should’ve been brought in to blow the game.

Jayman28
Member
9 days ago
Reply to  Jim Atkins

Apparently watching submariner arms pitch is Joe’s viagra

JackFrost
Super Member
9 days ago
Reply to  Jayman28

He likes to give the opposition “different looks.” However, I think it would be better if we found another more reliabler pitcher to provide that look.

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