Postgame Loss Thread

Angels lost 7-4, we will go as far as our pitching, but watching the Seattle pitching staff carve up the lineup sucked. Dayum though that Ohtani homerun was suhweeeet…

I spent the game getting Specturm to cancel streaming cable after they promised me it included Bally’s Sports West and it did not in fact include that channel (claim was they are having trouble maintaining the channel on streaming). Lame. Probably better to spend the night on hold watching gameday when the team stinks then missing some amazing transcendent moment.

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Angels2020Champs
Trusted Member
15 days ago

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Mia
Super Member
Mia
15 days ago

Roberts just pulled May after he winced after a pitch. Won’t see him for 2 years. Sucks.

JackFrost
Trusted Member
15 days ago
Reply to  Mia

I don’t want to sound cold and insensitive, and I never wish injury on anyone, BUT, if he’s out for awhile ( we don’t know that yet) that means the Angels won’t have to face him, and that is a good thing for us.

Angels2020Champs
Trusted Member
15 days ago
Reply to  JackFrost

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H.T. Ennis
Admin
Trusted Member
15 days ago
Reply to  JackFrost

We’d face him max one time this year, and the next guy up is probably 90% as capable as May. I don’t know how much one start is worth, but I don’t think this affects the Angels much at all.

JackFrost
Trusted Member
15 days ago
Reply to  H.T. Ennis

Well, we play the Dodgers two series this year if I am not mistaken. Since those series are not back to back I think we could face him twice, right??

Plus, I am not exactly feeling sorry for the Dodgers when misfortune strikes. I am sure their fans don’t feel sorry for us when our players are injured.

Mia
Super Member
Mia
15 days ago
Reply to  JackFrost

We’ll give up enough runs that it wouldn’t have mattered anyway. Really sucks to see one of the young studs in the game go down.

JackFrost
Trusted Member
15 days ago
Reply to  Mia

You’re right Mia. On a personal level it sucks for him. He is an up and coming star.

JackFrost
Trusted Member
15 days ago
Reply to  JackFrost

On the other hand, the report on mlb.com suggests that no specific injury has been stated.

We don’t know that there is any structural damage. Could be a pulled muscle for all we know..

Mia
Super Member
Eric_in_Portland
Super Member
15 days ago
Reply to  Mia

we’ll need to outscore them.

So, yeah, Trout….I find myself checking the White Sox box score. I have nothing against Mercedes. I hope he hits .395 all season (that’s where he is now after his 0 for 4 day) just as long as Trout has a higher average.

Mia
Super Member
Mia
15 days ago

We will indeed, Eric. We will indeed.

Last edited 15 days ago by Mia
H.T. Ennis
Admin
Trusted Member
15 days ago

I don’t understand Mercedes! His swing doesn’t look like it should work! Yet it does!

Eric_in_Portland
Super Member
15 days ago

the 9-15 Twins are getting blasted again. Wish we could have had those games against them.

Simba
Member
15 days ago

Spectrum streaming packages have never included FSW/Bally. Unfortunately you have to subscribe to cable and get a box. Then you can stream any of the channels you have in your cable package. But you still have to get/pay for that stinking box.

So far I’ve just been watching the occasional channel 13 game. I don’t have reception, but locast.org rebroadcasts area over-the-air channels.

FungoAle
Trusted Member
15 days ago
Reply to  Simba

Are you sure about this? I think your right. But from Reddit:

If you’re a spectrum internet customer you can subscribe to their “TV Choice” streaming TV package which allows you to pick 10 channels. Be sure to include FS1 as one of your channel choices. When you go to boot up the channel list – lo and behold BSMW will be there.

I had Choice in November but hd to get the damn box to watch the Lakers. I don’t remember if I was able to get Fox Sports West. Mmmmm. Spectrum is shady.

Simba
Member
13 days ago
Reply to  FungoAle

Pretty sure only FS1 is available. ESPN too, which may get a few Angels games.

Here’s a list of channels:

https://www.buytvinternetphone.com/blog/spectrum-tv-choice-channels-packages

Not a bad deal overall, but no Angels = no deal for me.

Fansince1971
Super Member
15 days ago

If Bedrosian becomes awesome, it will further implicate the Angels’ coaxing and development staff.

Angels2020Champs
Trusted Member
15 days ago
Reply to  Fansince1971

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Senator_John_Blutarsky
Trusted Member

Heaney is what he is: #5 starter / long relief. The problem is that we have several starting pitchers in the same slot.

The Angels are .500 team as constructed. If they get a few breaks along the way – they’ll be a few games above. If key players get injured – they’ll be below.

In 2025, the team should be really good (if our alien 👽 overlords still allow baseball).

GrandpaBaseball
Trusted Member
15 days ago

No one on this site has been harder on Heaney than me, and it goes back years. But he truly is pitching better than he has his whole career this season. He has only pitched 2 iffy games so far and has had 2 no decisions that he should have one but you know our BP and how good they are. Give him a little more time before we come down hard against him. I not long ago said that he would pitch W-L-ND-ND-L-W-L ND-L-W. But it was worse as you always had to add in the injury effect, which could still again prevail. We this season have only decent starters and they are decent, not great but that could also change as we got to believe.

steelgolf
Trusted Member
15 days ago

It is only May 1st. Too early to make the call that Heaney is pitching better than ever. Had he have gone 7+ innings in each of his starts, then maybe you could say he is pitching well.

WallyChuckChili
Trusted Member
15 days ago
Reply to  steelgolf

How many pitchers in the whole league have gone 7+ innings in each of their starts?

Fansince1971
Super Member
15 days ago

With the April that Trout, Ohtani, Walsh and even Pujols had, this team should be at least 15-9. It’s the same old story – pitching.

I will say that once Rendon becomes RENDON – that is one powerful lineup.

But it is always and forever pitching.

MarineLayer
Member
15 days ago

The Angels are just predictably bad. Nothing new. Watch Bedrosian resurge for Oakland.

FungoAle
Trusted Member
15 days ago
Reply to  MarineLayer

All we need Bedrock to do is pitch to his abilities and we’ll catch the A’s by mid-May.

h27kim
Member
15 days ago

So what to do about Heaney? The dude is a regular Jekyll and Hyde: very good or very bad, sometimes even in the same game. I don’t think he’ll ever “figure it out” while wearing a halo, but I had always worried that he’ll do it somewhere else. But whatever the case, it starts to look like he’ll be a goner at the end of the season if not earlier…

JackFrost
Trusted Member
15 days ago
Reply to  h27kim

Sadly, I agree that Heaney will never “figure it out.” While he is occasionally capable of giving you a Houston start, that kind of game will be one out of four starts, or sandwiched between two bad games.

This will not get it done. Last night was a perfect example. The team gave him the lead on two separate occasions and he could not hold it either time. Throwing 92 mph fastballs in the upper part of the strike zone is lazy and a recipe for disaster.

Every pitch needs to be thrown with forethought and precision , and that is just not happening with Heaney. I am ready to relegate him to long-relief for the time being and move C-Rod into the rotation.

KingsHalos10
Member
15 days ago
Reply to  JackFrost

None of our pitchers really pitch with authority, command the zone and control the game. They let the umps control the zone and end up leaving balls all over the zone in hittable spots. It seems like every team knows that. I understand the umps call balls and strikes, but the Angels pitchers never seen to attack with a plan for ground outs, pop ups and fly balls. Every pitcher has bad games, but ours seem to be almost all the time with not good control

JackFrost
Trusted Member
15 days ago
Reply to  KingsHalos10

In Heaney’s case that was definitely true last night. He threw waaay too many pitches early, going to 3 ball counts with almost every batter. This is not a good plan.

In addition to poor execution of his pitches I agree that he was not aggressive enough early in AB’s.

FungoAle
Trusted Member
15 days ago
Reply to  h27kim

I’m one of his few remaining fans on this site. I am perplexed as well and I agree, he’ll figure it out somewhere else. Heaney reportedly used Doug White over the offseason as a pitching mentor who is no longer on the Angel payroll.

Last edited 15 days ago by FungoAle
Fansince1971
Super Member
15 days ago
Reply to  h27kim

Heaney is a tough one. He didn’t pitch terribly last night. He got squeezed to some extent and he hung a few ‘out’ pitches and Seattle didn’t miss them. Tip your cap. He still kept the team in the game.

Angels got a bit unlucky last night. If either of those Pujols balls travelled a bit farther it would have been a totally different game.

Overall it was a meh performance by Heaney but not a terrible one. That’s a game the team could have won with a couple timely hits.

Halo71
Member
15 days ago

The Angels need a long winning streak, but when two of your starters are terrible, it’s next to impossible

GrandpaBaseball
Trusted Member
15 days ago

Why oh why did we not sign Machado the year prior to signing Rendon? Why did we sign Rendon to such a long contract? At this point I am over all disappointed in Rendon as I have not really seen his supposed Bat or glove, but admittedly he is a huge improvement over Rojas and Renny.

Jessica DeLine
Admin
Trusted Member
15 days ago

Angels curse

Senator_John_Blutarsky
Trusted Member
Reply to  Jessica DeLine

Arte curse

BoyWithApple
Member
Trusted Member
15 days ago

It’s the Best Player in Baseball Curse. The Angels snatched the only chance of a World Series victory away from Barry Bonds, and in return the Halos are gifted the best player of his generation as long as he never wins a playoff game.

I can see Ohtani and Trout coming in first and second in AL MVP voting and the Angels still failing to make the playoffs.

JackFrost
Trusted Member
15 days ago

Fuck Machado (May).

We don’t need his lazy, selfsh ass. Not having Machado is not the problem. Rendon is far better (his slow start this season notwithstanding. Though Manny has been no great shakes either).

Need I say it again, it is the pitching folks, primarily the starters. No surprises there. And yes, Arte and his stupidity is the main culprit.

KingsHalos10
Member
15 days ago
Reply to  JackFrost

Moreno needs to stop cutting corners on the team and front office. Spend on scouting, medical and ops as those are major areas of need.
We’ve been lucky to have an owner willing to spend, but unfortunately it’s on what he wants, not what the team needs.
He needs to go above his salary ceiling and above the lux tax at least once to compete especially for pitching until Pujols and Upton are off the books. Invest in developing pitching so when they come up, they have cost controlled pitching

h27kim
Member
15 days ago
Reply to  KingsHalos10

I’m not sure if the answer is “spending” on pitching. The free agent market for pitchers has been sparse: very few actually good pitchers have been on the market (Cole and maybe Bauer) and have been way overpriced (the Bauer reference). Else, there have been pitchers with various question marks. This is something that others (gitcho, fs1971) have frequently pointed out too: (quality) pitching is too rare, too expensive and, too unpredictable to be solved via free agency: you need a good system that can consistently develop arms that only needs an extra piece or two via FA. Only only we have not had this for many years, we have actively neglected this dimension especially after DiPoto’s departure: we have not drafted (many) pitchers, we have not signed international prospects (not counting Ohtani who was not exactly a development candidate), and we have not traded for (many) pitching prospects (can’t think of anyone “young,” only interesting but flawed arms who might slot into the bullpen soonish). So we are excited about CRod, and it’s nice that we have a young arm who might have an impact. But if we have to pin all our hopes on just one young prospect who had a lot of injury problems last few years, then we have a serious organizational problems. The thinness of the organization is especially glaring in arms.

Last edited 15 days ago by h27kim
KingsHalos10
Member
15 days ago
Reply to  h27kim

I’m not saying spending on Cole and Bauer, but at least spend on quality arms rather than constant dumpster diving. They tried and got outbid. The FA market is tough bc the pitchers everyone wanted the last 2 years wanted to be elsewhere. It forces the team to rush pitching prospects who need time to develop. That leads to the baseball ops and skimping on player development, scouting and management. There’s many issues that need to be addressed.
Problem I have is that the pitchers just simply don’t have it. They don’t attack or command the zone and let the defense take care of the rest. It seems they just CJ Wilson it and nibble the plate going the umps call it and when they don’t, they leave everything in the zone. No one really has that fire or drive and revolution on the mound like Weaver and Lackey had.

matthiasstephan
Trusted Member
15 days ago
Reply to  KingsHalos10

Who would you have signed?

I am always curious about the ‘quality arms’ vs. ‘dumpster diving’ discussion, when it is a series of arms at roughly the same price point, and all of which have ‘pitchers with various question marks’. Should we have signed Odorizzi instead of Quintana?

KingsHalos10
Member
15 days ago

Can’t Perry for Q. There wasn’t much out there in terms of quality. At this point, they have to fill the gaps with the 1 and 2 yr deals and hope for the best while not rushing the only young prospects the Angels have.
Not that these would have been any better, but I would have liked them to have brought back Richards and Shoe. Still projects, but at least they were home talent and fun to watch. Other than Happ, to just throw innings, the market was a crapshoot.

KingsHalos10
Member
15 days ago

That’s the hard part. Both are a gamble. Spend on names and previous performances vs cheaper castoffs with potential upside. Key for both is health and if they perform as advertised regardless how they’re paid.
I think it’s tough for baseball fans of other teams see the Angels high payroll and then play sub .500 ball especially having trout.

Between Q and Odorizzi, easier to look at Q for the 1 yr vs 3 for O. Q just becomes the next in line of Blanton, Harvey, Cahill and Teheran. All about risk and reward on those gambles.

KingsHalos10
Member
15 days ago
Reply to  h27kim

Totally agree with you about the lacking of drafting pitchers. The few they have either have been traded for Simba and or high risk pitchers that are starting to have arm issues (Canning). They need to start to draft all kinds of arms and develop them, but that’s where the lack in scouting and lower level development comes in as well. Still falls on Moreno skimping on everything other than bats and handcuffing the GM to build a competitive team.

GrandpaBaseball
Trusted Member
15 days ago
Reply to  KingsHalos10

We came out ahead in the Simba deal by far.

KingsHalos10
Member
15 days ago

Absolutely. Newcomb and Ellis hasnt panned out or been effective.

H.T. Ennis
Admin
Trusted Member
15 days ago
Reply to  h27kim

Right. We just as easily could have inked Corbin, and then we’d be having a totally different discussion here. I’d much rather spend money on hitting than pitching.

KingsHalos10
Member
15 days ago
Reply to  H.T. Ennis

The right hitting is fine, which was Rendon. Fits the lineup better to hit behind Trout than Upton. At least Upton is doing better this year. Pitching help has always been needed, but spending 25-30 mil on an arm isn’t the answer.

h27kim
Member
15 days ago
Reply to  H.T. Ennis

If we signed Corbin and everything else turned out the same, we’d be still missing a few arms in both rotation and pen. Nats’ championship team had two other very good and very exp arms with whom they turned out to be rather lucky with: Scherzer delivering value for the money that he got for most of his contract and Strasburg actually staying off of IL most of that year (and they still had lousy bullpen, which affected their starter usage which, good for them, didn’t blow up on them that year). We don’t have any kind of quality pitching depth at any level in the organization and no single free agent or even two can solve this, which is my contention.

KingsHalos10
Member
15 days ago
Reply to  h27kim

That’s right. The bad contracts of the past and Arte’s stubbornness to not spend where it’s needed to better the team while the contracts end are why the team is where theyre at. No one is taking a contract dump on aging players, so it’s a patch up job for the last 6 seasons.

There’s no pitching depth across the org. Forced into the high end FA market or bad 1 yr signings on reclamation projects aren’t helping. The idea is there, but they are not delivering which in turn is forcing them to bring up the prospects that aren’t ready. They need to continually draft pitching and let them develop.
Spending in the right areas is needed.

H.T. Ennis
Admin
Trusted Member
15 days ago
Reply to  h27kim

Agreed. There’s a decent amount of resentment towards Upton, but the Upton contract is not preventing us from doing anything. Maybe Arte’s payroll threshold is $25 million lower than lux tax and we have Lagares out there instead of Upton. The team is still functionally the same.

Gotta develop guys in the system (like C-Rod to have a chance). Right now, we’re just hoping for the one-year SP guys to pan out (Bundy did!!!) when most of them won’t. Odds say that if we keep doing this, one of these years we will luck into a top-5 team. I hope honest to goodness that we win the World Series that year.

KingsHalos10
Member
15 days ago
Reply to  H.T. Ennis

The free agent market is always a gamble. Seems they always wait and choose wrong not wisely. Consistently relying on projects and scrap heaps for both SP & RP is tough to see year in and out, but something’s got to change sooner than later. Depleting the farm is not the answer either, but they need to draft more arms to develop.
Bundy definitely was a smart move.

JackFrost
Trusted Member
15 days ago
Reply to  h27kim

No single FA starter would solve the problem going forward, but it COULD HAVE helped us win this year! For me, I am starting small; let’s make the playoffs and have a decent showing there.

That is my priority number 1. I am not looking to rebuild the whole farm system and org in 2021. Win now in 2021 without mortgaging the future Rebuilding the infrastructure is a long-term project anyways. It is not like signing a FA pitcher means we are deciding against a reboot. We all know Pujols and Upton are coming off the books.

Last edited 15 days ago by JackFrost
JackFrost
Trusted Member
15 days ago
Reply to  KingsHalos10

Offense sells tickets but pitching wins. Arte clearly cares more about selling tickets.

KingsHalos10
Member
15 days ago
Reply to  JackFrost

Agree, but fans want the post season. Hitting alone doesn’t get you there.

JackFrost
Trusted Member
15 days ago
Reply to  KingsHalos10

Yep. That is my point. And we agree.

KingsHalos10
Member
15 days ago
Reply to  JackFrost

We just want competent pitchers that can pitch efficiently and smart through 6 or 7. I guess that’s a hard ask. Haha.

JackFrost
Trusted Member
15 days ago
Reply to  KingsHalos10

Your SP does not need to be spectacular, just solid. This works for Oakland. They are in the middle of the pack in team ERA at 17th, meanwhile, we are dead last!!

KingsHalos10
Member
15 days ago
Reply to  JackFrost

Exactly. Reminds me when Gio Gonzalez went to the Nats. They wanted pitch to contact efficiency. Not trying to strike everyone out.

GrandpaBaseball
Trusted Member
15 days ago
Reply to  JackFrost

The better point that should have been said is that Machado is younger, arguably a better fielder and more versatile. Rendon right now questionable during his long contract. Your opinion of Machado withstanding is acknowledged but we have different opinions here, but Jack is yours not just as “Fucked?” as mine? I will not judge your opinion, but simply say compare the 2 seasons so far.

JackFrost
Trusted Member
15 days ago

Over the last three non-shortened seasons (for obvious reasons I skipped last year and looked at 2017-2019) Machado had 12.5 combined WAR.

Rendon had 18.4 combined WAR.

If we don’t even examine intangibles and character issues (where Rendon wins as well) Rendon is clearly the better player.

Last edited 15 days ago by JackFrost
H.T. Ennis
Admin
Trusted Member
15 days ago

As an Angel, Rendon’s OPS is .860.

As a National, Rendon’s OPS was………….. .859.

He’s fine. He finished 10th in MVP voting last year and he’s 12 games into this season.

Let’s all just relax on Rendon. There are a million more pressing issues than Rendon.

JackFrost
Trusted Member
15 days ago
Reply to  H.T. Ennis

Well said.

Cowboy26
Trusted Member
15 days ago

Because Anthony Rendon is better than Machado. Just look at their career road splits . Machado benefitted from the band box known as Camden Yards . Do you really think he would have put up large numbers at the Big A after losing the advantage of facing crappy Angel pitching? No way. Their contracts are similar in terms of player age duration. The only question is who will age better including health.

H.T. Ennis
Admin
Trusted Member
15 days ago
Reply to  Cowboy26

Yes, the Big A, also known as the 7th most hitter friendly park according to recent metrics.

WallyChuckChili
Trusted Member
15 days ago
Reply to  H.T. Ennis

Raise the Yellow Line!

H.T. Ennis
Admin
Trusted Member
15 days ago

There should definitely be some sort of basket thingy, because I hate it when fans are right next to home run balls. But yes.

GrandpaBaseball
Trusted Member
15 days ago

We had the lead and still lost, hmm, no way that could happen again. Oh you say it’s the pitching that is weak? Well losing to anyone team in our division sucks, but Arte is into Bondage as he likes to tie the hands of his GM’s and watch as they are helpless to retrieve some sort of pitching staff. Must say here that the surprises for me have been Ohtani and Heaney in how good they have been. The disappointments are many but Cobb and Quintana stand out.

Halo71
Member
15 days ago

Cobb and Quintana wouldn’t even be on the roster on a lot of teams

Chap24
Member
15 days ago

Disgusted. Same ol Heaney Same ol Halos.
There Is literally no one else to blame EVER other than Arte!..I’d rather be a small market spending team than spend a ton on a playoff ready offense only to scrape the bottom of the barrel for pitching EVERY year only to watch the real …smart small market teams out perform us EVERY single YEAR!!!

steelgolf
Trusted Member
15 days ago

Regular Spectrum cable has Bally’s. That is how I watched this game that was a rerun of other bad Angels games. Starting pitching goes 4 innings, gassed bullpen tries to keep them in it but gasses bullpen is gassed. Offense can’t overcome bad pitching. Brought to you by 2016, 2017, 2018, 2019, and 2020. In reality, this is just one long, drawn out 2016. The year that won’t end.

GrandpaBaseball
Trusted Member
15 days ago
Reply to  steelgolf

Include 2015, after all same results.

rspencer
Trusted Member
15 days ago

Well, at least we were .500 in April. That’s better than a lot of seasons I can remember.

JackFrost
Trusted Member
15 days ago
Reply to  rspencer

I am not gonna try to put the .500 lipstick on this pig. With the starts that Trout and Ohtani have had ( not to mention Walsh!) we should be well above .500.

Look at the A’s; the only bat really tearing it up has been Olsen, and yet they are well above .500.

BoyWithApple
Member
Trusted Member
15 days ago
Reply to  JackFrost

Bill James says that if you field a team where all the batters have a 100 OPS+ and all the pitchers have a 100 ERA+, that team is practically guaranteed to make the playoffs.

Eric_in_Portland
Super Member
15 days ago

The good: Trout now leads the majors in BA, OBP, SLG, OPS, probably WAR (haven’t looked tonight), OPS+. Ohtani hit his 8th., on pace for 50.

The bad: I don’t want to even start

matthiasstephan
Trusted Member
15 days ago

Looking for the positives (and I really don’t want to be in ‘Trout stat watching mode’ already this year) – Trout has the same fWAR as Ken Griffey Jr.

Fansince1971
Super Member
15 days ago

Unless you’re a stat freak this team is tough to watch

Mia
Super Member
Mia
15 days ago

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