LA Angels Tuesday News Crash: Sweeps

As you may know, the Mariners swept the Astros in a big way. The Reds swept the Cubs to get into wild card position. Here is an overview of what is important to watch this week.

Mike Trout gave Alberto three signed bats and met his whole family in exchange for ball number 400. He played catch with Alberto for a while down by third base.

The lawsuit by Tyler Skaggs’ family is underway. The link told me it was the New York Times but it is the Athletic. It is not paywalled as of lunch time Monday.

I saw this article title about whether Weaver could be a starter again and my first thought was “What the hell? Is he going to pitch underhand?” (It turns out It’s about Luke Weaver, not Jered Weaver.)

Brandon Woodruff is on the injured list with a lat strain. I guess he could be back in the postseason.

The Cubs DFAd right-hander Nate Pearson for assignment. The Red Sox DFAd catcher Ali Sanchez while activating Wilyer Abreu from the injured list. The Marlins have designated outfielder Derek Hill for assignment. Charlie Morton apparently cleared waivers. He will sign with the Braves. The Braves also claimed Joel Payamps off waivers and DFAd Connor Seabold.

The qualifying offers are projected to be around $22 Million for this offseason.

Patrick Zalupski is the new owner of the Rays.

Photo credit: Rex Fregosi

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DowningDude
Legend
1 day ago

So I guess the Skaggs case is our Pennant Chase. Sad stuff. Just give the Skaggs family the franchise and send Arte away.

DowningDude
Legend
1 day ago

Thanks for the MLB guide link. Watching Guards and Tigres de Detroit.

FungoAle
Legend
1 day ago
Reply to  DowningDude

Skubal doing Skubal things

Fansince1971
Legend
1 day ago

Maybe this wrongful death trial will be the “unfinished business” and Arte will sell at its conclusion.

DowningDude
Legend
1 day ago
Reply to  Fansince1971

We can dream.

Brent
Super Member
1 day ago

Must be nice to have a new owner.

I hope we can say that ourselves sooner than later.

Also, follow Sam Blum on twitter for updates for the trial.

Born_in_59
Trusted Member
1 day ago

I see Aldegheri is scheduled to start tonight. I’m interested to see if his improvement in the minors carries over any. Regardless of how well he pitches, I’m expecting this to turn into a bullpen game.

DowningDude
Legend
1 day ago
Reply to  Born_in_59

Aldegheri? 😱

Kevin
Trusted Member
1 day ago
Reply to  Born_in_59

I thought Aldegheri looked like he might turn into something last year. I’m at the park tonight so I guess I will see up close and personal.

FungoAle
Legend
2 days ago

Ohtani 9-runs short of 150 runs scored this season, that’s crazy. Go Shohei. If he does that, MVP is cinched.

RexFregosi
Super Member
2 days ago
Reply to  FungoAle

the Dodger pitcher tonight against the D-Backs – I hope they rock him.

And those nine runs? wait for Friday. and I think he has the MVP.

bobblanton
Trusted Member
2 days ago
Reply to  RexFregosi

I hope he has a bad outing also. He deserves the MVP but I don’t have to be happy about it. lol

FungoAle
Legend
1 day ago
Reply to  RexFregosi

Go D-Backs.

2002heaven
Super Member
1 day ago
Reply to  RexFregosi

I’ll be elated for our former GM. He deserves all the success he gets after he was stabbed in the back here.
GO JERRY!!!

Brent
Super Member
1 day ago
Reply to  FungoAle

He’s had the MVP clinched since before the ASG.

FungoAle
Legend
1 day ago
Reply to  Brent

Recognizing there are writers who just will hand it to Ohtani due to the singular fact he is a 2-way player, in August, it was close but Kyle is having a dismal September.

Angels2020Champs
Legend
2 days ago

Robo umps for next year on challenges, hmm.

angelslogic
Legend
2 days ago

I like it. Interesting that only the batter, catcher, or pitcher can ask for the challenge. Managers or others may not.

bobblanton
Trusted Member
2 days ago
Reply to  angelslogic

Most games there are like 15-20 bad calls not sure 2 challenges are going to make a difference. Umps should wear glasses with that technology in them so they can make the right call on the spot

milehigh
Trusted Member
1 day ago
Reply to  bobblanton

Not sure where the data comes from to claim 15-20 bad calls a game. I like Ump Scorecards. I think they do a real good job of taking MLB data and quantifying in a way that allows anyone to see how an umpire called each game. The umpire accuracy and consistency is really pretty good. One game I just looked at had only 9 wrong calls out of 194.

I don’t get the idea behind the challenge. If you have the ability why not just go forward and have the tech just call the game.

Angels2020Champs
Legend
1 day ago
Reply to  milehigh

There has to be a game that matters where a human ump really messes stuff up for it to go full robo. I enjoy challenges allowed in cricket. I also like the NFL having a marker in the football that spots the ball (thanks buf v kc last playoffs). I can see this being a useful tool, but if I sit close enough to be heard can I challenge as a fan?!? Maybe banana ball can look into that.

gitchogritchoffmypettis
Legend

Once the Yankees or Dodgers are screwed out of further post season ratings by an umpire we’ll go full robot. For now you still need the human umps to do their best to get those two teams into the WS.

Dogface1956
Trusted Member
2 days ago

Trout is a quality person and player. I know many here would like to see him retire or be traded. My feeling is if any player has earned the right to decide how to finish up his career it is Trout. If he wants to be traded to a winning team, then the Angels should trade him. If he wants to finish his career as an Angel he has earned the right to stay here. If he wants to retire early again he has earned that right. As far as I know he has been the type of person we all would be proud to call our own son. His parents did a hell of a job raising an outstanding person the icing on the cake is he was one of; if not the best player of his generation.

Kevin
Trusted Member
2 days ago
Reply to  Dogface1956

Well said Doggy.

SD19
Trusted Member
2 days ago
Reply to  Dogface1956

Speaking of how cool he is, my son got a ball signed by him last night after his fall ball game. We played trouts kids team. Everyone left him alone during the game and he hung out afterwards and signed autographs and took pictures with our players. Couldn’t have been nicer. My son was pumped

DowningDude
Legend
1 day ago
Reply to  SD19

Awesome stuff.

Kevin
Trusted Member
1 day ago
Reply to  SD19

Outstanding. He will be an awesome hall of famer as a career Angel. Not many out there, maybe none.

FungoAle
Legend
2 days ago
Reply to  Dogface1956

With a No-Trade clause, he is calling the shots

Terry
Trusted Member
2 days ago

Recall the Angels signed Matt Harvey in 2019 to a one year $11 million contract, after Harvey had two really bad seasons. He lasted 45 innings with the Angels with an ERA over 7.

Angels2020Champs
Legend
2 days ago
Reply to  Terry

But he was a great time in the locker room! Surely there has to be value to that

comment image

Terry
Trusted Member
2 days ago

Skaggs case: First of all, great post by Rex Fregosi, very well done, thank you for all the info.

I wonder if the Angels Profesional liability carrier is involved, and the limits to the policy and terms of such policy. Insurance companies don’t like cases going to trial, particularly if they are picking up the insurer’s legal costs.

Per Fregosi’s post, there were a number of Angels employees who knew, or apparently knew of Skaggs drug problems, including two drug dealers, Kay and apparently Matt Harvey (was Harvey financially benefitting from allegedly supplying drugs?) As well as other players knowing about Skaggs problems.

It seems likely upper management knew, not necessarily Arte, had knowledge of the drug transactions going on with their employee, and didn’t stop it. If true, that seems very problematic for the defendants here.

The Angels have a senior v.p. named Molly Jolly? Great name.

Thank you again Mr. Fregosi for the info.

Senator_John_Blutarsky
Legend
Reply to  Terry

Whatever the outcome, it will be appealed and pursued as far as possible. At some point, both parties will decide to settle, either because some money now is better than the uncertainty of appeals, or the franchise is old and the new owners want all the crap from the prior regime to be eradicated.

Fasten the seatbelt – more crap like “pimple eating” will see the light of day, and the disgust associated with the franchise will undoubtedly grow. Arte’s tenure as owner will be remembered as the franchise’s lowest point in it’s history.

Terry
Trusted Member
2 days ago

Wasn’t Ippee an Angels employee?

RexFregosi
Super Member
2 days ago
Reply to  Terry

yes, the only reason I remember is because the Dodgers then more than doubled his salary. I recall he made $67k/yr but that maybe is imagination.

MarineLayer
Legend
2 days ago

Thank you Kikuchi for expressing frustration with the quick hook by Monty. I appreciate at least one team member showing a little fire. What can we do to get others to show that fire. I’m tired of this team imploded every Sept.

bobblanton
Trusted Member
2 days ago

Can’t you die from the white pus

Angels2020Champs
Legend
2 days ago
Reply to  bobblanton

That or get a gnarly high

comment image

bobblanton
Trusted Member
2 days ago

He should have smoked it off trouts back then not eat it. Yuck

Senator_John_Blutarsky
Legend
Reply to  bobblanton

The information that has come out thus far seems to indicate that there was widespread knowledge of Kay’s addiction. Knowing that Kay was an addict and needed money, what type of depraved mind comes up with having him “eat a pimple off of someone’s back” for cash?

This is sick on so many levels it boggles the mind. It’s so far beyond just “childish locker room antics” that it can’t be overlooked.

The Angels are broken. Their culture is one of depravity. Before the baseball outcomes can be fixed, everyone involved with creating this culture has to leave.

Terry
Trusted Member
2 days ago

True dat

Angels2020Champs
Legend
2 days ago

If that’s what they’re caught for, you could only imagine what they got away with. The ol “I had it tough, so you’ll have it tough” mentality.

bobblanton
Trusted Member
2 days ago

Nasty. Who pays someone to eat a pimple off their back. And who eats a pimple off someone’s back

Angels2020Champs
Legend
2 days ago
Reply to  bobblanton

Have you not been in a men’s sports locker room? You’d be surprised at how little changes between high school and ‘professional’ behavior. Should a coach(es) be culpable to that environment?! Or just play dumb

bobblanton
Trusted Member
2 days ago

I think multiple people could have helped him but ultimately it’s personal responsibility. But unfortunately California tries to blame the employer for everything

Angels2020Champs
Legend
2 days ago
Reply to  bobblanton

I’m down for scorched earth in this case. We can and do give the angels plenty of shit on here. I’m willing to bet (I don’t gamble) the vocal majority of the players enjoyed (laughed, participated, etc) the hazing “culture building” that went on in the locker room. If there were any dissenting opinions, I bet they were kept quiet (because that’s what ‘real’ leaders do, lead in rank and pay, not in actual lead by example or change of culture).

bobblanton
Trusted Member
2 days ago

Haha I get it

bobblanton
Trusted Member
2 days ago

This is why the Angels have several seasons in futility. No leadership in the clubhouse or management. Very sad MLB needs to tell Arte to sell. This is embarrassing

Angels2020Champs
Legend
2 days ago
Reply to  bobblanton

💯

Terry
Trusted Member
2 days ago
Reply to  bobblanton

Unless the employer was aware of the illegal behavior, and wasn’t pro active to address it. The employee(s) were apparently involve illegal behavior and some in management knew it allegedly, and didn’t stop it and an employee died.

YOUknowulovetheIE
Super Member
2 days ago
Reply to  bobblanton

If they gathered up enough money I could see a drunk 21 year old version of myself doing it. As a grown man who has a role in the organization, how humiliating.

Angels2020Champs
Legend
2 days ago

How weird, it’s like there is a law on no hazing in MLB. I wonder how well it would’ve gone over for the “whistleblower” to report puss eating hazing. Probably about as well as it would go in reporting gambling problems (cough cough ippei/ohtani) or anything else that is common in the “culture”. Overall these are problems of the sports culture itself, but sure lay blame to the angels as a whole because I hate arte!

https://img.mlbstatic.com/mlb-images/image/upload/fl_attachment/mlb/oddd2rjnccqfrdf0ecvk.pdf

Jeff Joiner
Editor
Legend
2 days ago

We didn’t lose last night!

Huge series between Detroit and Cleveland.

Seattle needs to avoid a letdown against Colorado.

Would be great to see Cohen miss the dance.

FungoAle
Legend
2 days ago
Reply to  Jeff Joiner

Skubal is going for the Tigers tonight, he needs to get the win to stop the bleeding. Skubal will also be in play on Sunday if needed. Tigers will have a tough series against Red Sox to close out the year.

Hard to see Mariners losing grip on 1st.

Reds vs Pirates, Cincy needs to win 2 out of 3, sweep would be great but the Pirates will have Skenes going Wednesday vs Hunter Green, great match-up. Come on Reds and Tito!

Would love to see the D-back sweep LA Dongers and shake up everything. Corbin Carroll, one of my favorite players.

gitchogritchoffmypettis
Legend
Reply to  FungoAle

Love D-Backs sweeping Doyers. Love Corbin Carroll. I concur.

And yes. Of course. Go Reds. Greene Vs that Pirates offense? He can beat Skenes 2 -1 or something. Then we need to hope for a Cleveland Vs Cincy World Series so major sports network execs have strokes.

Angels2020Champs
Legend
2 days ago

A discussion on Reddit about the Skaggs case:

https://www.reddit.com/r/baseball/comments/1no5apl/blum_angels_cant_argue_that_convicted_employee/

Wow, no one fighting and actually putting together thoughtful statements… here’s my favorite

“What happened to Tyler was a tragedy, the fact that someone is spending 22 years in prison because a 27 year old adult chose to do drugs and overdosed is one of the silliest things of America’s legal system. Now we have the (understandably grieving) family looking to sue the Angels for a billion dollars because their adult son overdosed? Where is this level of care for drug addicts dying every day in the streets?”

Fansince1971
Legend
2 days ago

I get the perspective but….an Angel employee (Kay) who directly reported to and was overseen by the upper echelon of the Organization (Tim Mead) supplied the actual drugs that killed Skaggs (this is what the jury found in the criminal case). That is really terrible and rightfully should expose the Organization to liability. Skaggs definitely had a drug problem. But an employee helped supply and support that problem and it obtained and supplied the drugs that actually killed him.

While I am a “personal responsibility” type guy, I see the responsibility and civil culpability of the Org for it’s employee’s actions.

Last edited 2 days ago by Fansince1971
Angels2020Champs
Legend
2 days ago
Reply to  Fansince1971

Really appreciate your input and willingness to discuss ‘71. These are just questions made to provoke more thought/discussion… wasn’t Tyler supplied by multiple people, including players who were given immunity? I’d say a guy eating pimple juices for money is not a higher up in the power structure of any organization. In fact, Kay is probably trying to impress the false idols we make of our athletes. Sadly in America, when you get good at sports or have enough money, your rules change and you get treated differently. Who’s going to be the one to tell Tyler
enough is enough when he’s the one “winning” at life? He, more than likely, kept yes friends around and didn’t stay in touch with those that challenged a lifestyle he chose. “The rigors” of a 162 season is laughable in the Skaggs lawsuit. A SP is lucky to get 20 starts in a season and doesn’t go 5 innings anymore. Police, military, fire, etc don’t sue the US or local governments when they get introduced to prescription medicine or indulge in alcohol/other legal substances. Tyler had access to much better resources than 99% of the population. He was also exposed to what every other person gets exposed to in a lifetime, choices. Anyway, my take is Kay should only do 2 years (they want to make an example of this case which could be interesting for California businesses in years to come… as in an another excuse to leave the state) and skagg’s family get paid out whatever was left on his contract. And arte selling the team of course.

PS a jury (of our peers) doesn’t always make the best decision. There are way too many examples but here’s a semi entertaining video on just that
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=XatOAULW03c&pp=0gcJCRsBo7VqN5tD

Last edited 2 days ago by Angels2020Champs
Fansince1971
Legend
2 days ago

I did not say Kay was in the upper echelon of the Org. I said he reported directly to Mead who was in the upper echelon. The Angels are legally responsible (Respondeat Superior) for the actions and omissions of their employee. That’s the law even if Skaggs had multiple suppliers and was a drug addict. If an employee of the Org supplied the drugs that killed Skaggs, the Org has legal/civil responsibility.

You mentioned that juries make mistakes and they certainly do. But in a criminal trial the standard of proof is WAY higher (beyond all reasonable doubt) as compared to a civil trial (preponderance of the evidence). A criminal jury (applying the higher standard of proof) found that Kay supplied the actual drugs that killed Skaggs and the judge would have had to determine that the evidence supports such a finding. So I think it’s a bit weak to hang your hat on “juries make mistakes”.

We certainly do not know all of the evidence linking Kay to the actual drug transactions for the narcotics that killed Skaggs. It must be pretty strong to have a criminal jury make that link.

Two things can be true. Skaggs was a drug addict and an Angels employee (who directly reported to Mead) supplied him with drugs including the drugs that killed him (per the criminal jury). The fact that Skaggs was an addict does not make the Org less liable for an employee supplying that addict with drugs that resulted in his death.

Last edited 2 days ago by Fansince1971
Angels2020Champs
Legend
2 days ago
Reply to  Fansince1971

I didn’t say you did or didn’t say anything. I wonder how Kay being a an admitted drug addict and getting help, then was signed off by a doctor, will come into play. I have many examples of employees doing bad things, then claiming they have a problem to which the employer has to help. That’s one of the ‘benefits’ of a union job… 90% of the union’s work is dealing with the 10% of their employee pool messing shit up.

Juries (and judges) do make mistakes and not all judgements stand the test of time.

As I’ve stated elsewhere, I’m ok with Kay doing time. I think it’s really lame the courts/public are pinning this on one employee (who ate pimple puss!) and other contributors get immunity. I’m ok with the skagg family getting $5 million or so… not $250 or so million. I’m okay with the angels needing some reform(s) that hopefully extend to all sports for the benefit of everyone. I’m not really for the status quo in California. I don’t think “the org” provided Skaggs with drugs, an employee of the org did and it’s very difficult for an org to control every aspects of its employees lives at all times.

gitchogritchoffmypettis
Legend

It’s gonna be rough if this becomes a “thing” in California. It would be simplest for a company to just fire anyone they suspect of using drugs in order to be safe from all this shit. But there are vast swaths of employers who strait up CAN’T fire an employee who gets caught using. So, as an employer you what? Can’t just clear a guy out if he has a drug habit? Now YOU are somewhat responsible for anything related to said drugs that might happen under your roof? Are YOU responsible for getting him off drugs? Are YOU responsible when he relapses over and over again? What about if he gets a couple other guys into drugs? On you? What if one of those guys, as is often the case, starts selling? On you? But remember. You may very well be in a position where you can’t fire him.

Soooo…. what? Mandatory drug testing every 30 days for all employees? For all companies? We will also probably need a whole new class of administrator in most companies who will handle all this testing and helping of addicts too. Sounds fun and inexpensive. Surely that cost won’t be passed on to the customer.

When I ask myself “What do you honestly think the vast majority of employers will do about this issue if they really think they can get sued for this?” I don’t think I like any of the answers and I also don’t think any of those answers will actually help with the drug problem.

Senator_John_Blutarsky
Legend

There’s only one answer: AI eliminates all employees, and the robots become our overlords. All because of Arte.

I guarantee you that there won’t be a robot getting coerced for money to eat a pimple off of someone’s back….

Terry
Trusted Member
2 days ago

Can a robot pitch and bat without striking out?

Terry
Trusted Member
2 days ago

I think one of the significant problems here for the Angels is an employee, now convicted, was dealing drugs to another employee with allegedly an employee in management with knowledge of the illegality. And management not apparently doing anything to address the problem. If this is determined to be accurate, the Angels could have significant exposure.

gitchogritchoffmypettis
Legend
Reply to  Terry

Pretty much. Can’t wait for it to become SOP for every employer to do their darndest to make sure that management is aware of the legality of everything every employee does so that they can then act if it looks like something may be illegal.

Fast foods gonna cost $20 a burger….

Actually my pal at lunch, who owns a business, said we should all get ready to work for ourselves as independent contractors…. who will likely have to carry “work insurance” as well as pay for our own benefits. Sergio’s Fast Food Sever Service Inc. I hadn’t even thought of that.

BruinsAngelsKings
Trusted Member
2 days ago
Reply to  Fansince1971

The Angels are legally responsible (Respondeat Superior) for the actions and omissions of their employee. 

You are clearly knowledgeable on legal matters like this, so I’ve got a question.

How is Kay’s situation meaningfully different from a server at In-N-Out serving a morbidly obese customer a 6×6 with animal fries and a shake, who then suffers a heart attack while eating?

I’m not trying to be contrarian, I’m genuinely curious about the legal implications. If I were a juror in the Skaggs trial, while I recognize the tragedy and feel for his family, I don’t think I could hold the Angels legally responsible.

Terry
Trusted Member
2 days ago

The difference is what Kay was doing was illegal, he was not a professionally licensed clinician to dispense the stuff. The employee at the restaurant service a burger and fries to a fat person is not illegal.

BruinsAngelsKings
Trusted Member
2 days ago
Reply to  Terry

Thank you for the clarification. However, it does beg further questions.

Is the exposure of the Angels amplified or made clearer because both people involved were employees?

Suppose I own company A and I employ Thomas. Thomas is dealing drugs on the side, and I know about it. Someone, not at all affiliated with the company, buys drugs from Thomas, overdoses, and dies. Is the company somehow liable?

Fansince1971
Legend
1 day ago

Depends if the drug transaction was done in the course and scope of your employee’s employment (such as during work hours or in work property). If so, you as the employer can be liable via respondeat superior. If outside the course and scope of employment – no employer liability. Course and scope is almost always an issue of fact for determination by the jury.

Here Kay was arguably acting in the course and scope of employment with the Angels (on a road trip with the team) when he supplied Skaggs with the drugs that killed him.

The course and scope issue will be a big one in this trial. The Angels will argue that when Kay secured and supplied the drugs he was outside the scope of employment. The jury will determine this issue.

Last edited 1 day ago by Fansince1971
gitchogritchoffmypettis
Legend
Reply to  Fansince1971

So if I go to Germany to get Mike Trout the best steroids, then bring them into the club house to give them to him, am I now in or out of the scope?

Fansince1971
Legend
1 day ago

If they are on a team road trip to Germany and you are there as an employee of the team – maybe – especially if you were acting in the course and scope of your employ when you secured and supplied the steroids.

Angels2020Champs
Legend
1 day ago
Reply to  Fansince1971

Honest question. What are the business hours of Kay and/or Skaggs. I don’t doubt there were transactions (like illegal gambling, trading/selling of prescribed and non prescribed medicine, etc) done during those hours and/or on the property. But can’t a good attorney team (say the one Skaggs has) put together a case that has a transaction (especially the one that killed someone) happened outside the hours/property/area. How can the angels be liable the entire road trip?

Fansince1971
Legend
1 day ago

That will be a central question. Was Kay in the course and scope of his employment when he secured and supplied the narcotics. Plaintiffs will argue that he was. Angels will argue he was not. The jury will ultimately decide this key issue. It’s factually driven and no black/white answer.

Issues such as the time of day, job responsibilities, communication responsibilities etc etc will all weigh in. Evidence such as text messages will be shown to the jury. Custom and practice will also be considered.

Last edited 1 day ago by Fansince1971
Fansince1971
Legend
1 day ago
Reply to  Fansince1971

I will add that the course and scope of employment issue would have been irrelevant in the criminal trial since it was Eric Kay being tried. That issue will be central to the civil trial since the Plaintiffs are trying to hold the Angels responsible via respondeat superior for Kay’s actions.

Whether or not Kay was in the course and scope of his employment with the Angels when he secured and supplied the narcotics will be determinative on the issue if the Angels potential liability for Kay’s actions.

There can also be separate causes of action against the Angels such as negligent hiring and supervision. These do not require course and scope since they are direct actions not vicarious.

Fansince1971
Legend
1 day ago

It’s not illegal to serve food to an obese person. It is a crime to supply illegal narcotics. That’s difference #1 and it’s a big one.

From a negligence standpoint it is not negligent to serve fast food to an obese person. There is no breach of a duty of care. There is a breach of a duty if you provide illegal substances to an individual and it kills them.

Your hypothetical is completely off base (no offense) and easily distinguishable. It’s a water cooler type discussion point – not a legal analysis.

I think if you sat on the jury and took your oath seriously you could put aside your preconceived biases and apply the law to the facts.

BruinsAngelsKings
Trusted Member
1 day ago
Reply to  Fansince1971

No offense taken, I was genuinely curious. Thank you for all your responses; it really clarifies things, at least for me.

As someone previously mentioned, this is a great thought-provoking discussion with real-world implications. Hopefully, we all learned something. I know I did.

Last edited 1 day ago by BruinsAngelsKings
gitchogritchoffmypettis
Legend

Simon Whistler. Human ChatGPT

gitchogritchoffmypettis
Legend
Reply to  Fansince1971

That’s the thing. Maybe I have some sand in my hoo hoo when it comes to Arte and any time he comes up my daddy issues enflame. So I want Skaggs apparently useless wife and mom to get a pile of money because Tim Mead (and thus Arte) didn’t do “something” that they couldn’t do. Maybe it will even force daddy to sell the team. I get it.

But do I REALLY want this? In America we seem to always lose sight of the fact that if we let the govt/legal system do something once then it becomes something it’s OK to do again… and again…. and again.

This feels like the expansion of the use of Executive Orders or The Patriot Act to me. Sure, I may have felt all ballsy when Obama said “I have a phone and a pen.” but am I glad that every president moving forward also gets to flex that? Maybe I was super into fighting terrorists and I wanted that Patriot Act at first. It was very popular when the bill was introduced. How bought now?

NOTE: I am not talking about ANY PARTICULAR SIDE HERE so don’t fly off the handle about how “they” are bad and blah blah. I’m not trying to point the boney finger at any one group, this is an issue with everybody in govt. but most importantly we the governed.

Allowing Skaggs Fam to sue and win against Arte & Co feels an awful lot like the P Act, or expanding the scope of the CIA, or Executive Orders, or creating the TSA and Homeland Security, or allowing pharma companies to be immune from vaccine lawsuits, or trying to expand the Supreme Court. These are all things that, if I ask myself “Do I want the politicians who I support THE LEAST to have this power?” the answer is clearly no. So I also need to not want “my guy” to have this power.

So the Skaggs suit may fit my current piss. But do I want ANY family whose lost someone to drugs supplied by a fellow employee to be able to sue the company? Cause that’s where this is going to expand to. Do I want employers to be responsible to do something every time it’s brought to their attention that an employee has a drug problem or they suspect an employee is selling them drugs? Whether it’s true or not? Do you want Irene and Concha from HR investigating a rumor that someone spread about YOU? Do you want a few extra HR mandated trainings because their insurance company demands it now?

Cause that’s where this bullshit is going. The legal profession and the court system and it’s bureaucracy are more than happy to let the public supply them with a whole new avenue of new law suits to mire us all in. Is this something WE think will actually make society any better?

Angels2020Champs
Legend
2 days ago

I enjoyed this read for both the entertainment value and the way it evokes more thought/discussion.

Angels2020Champs
Legend
2 days ago

Here’s the actual paperwork filed in Skaggs v the world:

https://www.rustyhardin.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/07/Skaggs-California-Complaint.pdf

Last edited 2 days ago by Angels2020Champs
Kevin
Trusted Member
2 days ago

Six more games left. Then a long off-season of rebuilding to make it look like the team has a chance in 2026. Let’s hope some gifts fall from the sky. Likely losing Kenley won’t help. I wonder if Hendricks will be back. He and Garcia apparently pitch better here than anywhere else.

FungoAle
Legend
2 days ago
Reply to  Kevin

Hendricks has as many quality starts as Kikuch, each have 11. Would not bother me if both are back.

gitchogritchoffmypettis
Legend
Reply to  FungoAle

When he’s on I really enjoy watching Hendricks pitch. He has old Maddox vibes.

Angelz4ever
Super Member
2 days ago

It’s a beautiful day for a neighborhood…a beautiful day for a neighbor….could you be me….won’t you be my neighbor?

Angels2020Champs
Legend
2 days ago

Can anyone copy and pasta the athletic link, it’s behind a paywall. Thanks in advance

RexFregosi
Super Member
2 days ago

There is a new story up today about the first day but this is yesterday’s and is comprehensive.

Trial pitting family of deceased pitcher Tyler Skaggs against Los Angeles Angels gets underway
By Sam Blum
Sept. 22, 2025

After four years of bitter legal battles over discovery, the Los Angeles Angels will go to court Monday as defendants in a wrongful death lawsuit brought by the family of former Angels pitcher Tyler Skaggs. At the heart of the upcoming trial is a central question: is a Major League Baseball team responsible for the death of one of its players?

It is expected that numerous current and former MLB players will testify, as well as several high-ranking Angels officials.
The Skaggs family is seeking $210 million in damages after Skaggs died on July 1, 2019 from a fentanyl overdose during an Angels road trip to Texas. Their side will have to show a jury that the Angels either knew or should have known that imprisoned former communications director Eric Kay was providing pills to Skaggs.
The Angels side will try to re-litigate the case against Kay, and thrust full responsibility for Skaggs’ death onto Skaggs himself.
The filings in this process have, at times, been explosive and contentious. In a filing in Orange County Superior Court on Thursday, Skaggs lawyers highlighted deposition testimony from a clubhouse attendant stating that he witnessed Mike Trout offering to pay for Kay’s rehab in 2018. The filing also included deposition testimony from four different Angels employees and executives, discussing clubhouse behavior they were aware of involving Kay — including eating a pimple off Trout’s back in exchange for cash. Other players were allegedly involved in other dares.
Throughout the process, the Skaggs side has accused the Angels of needlessly delaying the trial, and concealing key evidence entitled to them in the discovery process.
Now that the trial is officially beginning, here are answers to some of the most pressing questions about the case.
What will the Skaggs side argue?Skaggs lawyers will attempt to expose a culture within the Angels organization that allowed for Kay’s addiction to go largely unchecked, despite widespread knowledge of his drug problems.
They’ll highlight evidence suggesting Angels traveling secretary Tom Taylor and former Vice President for communications Tim Mead were notified of Kay and Skaggs’ dynamic before Skaggs died as the result of a fentanyl overdose in his Southlake, Texas hotel room. Taylor and Mead have previously declined to comment.

They’ll do this using text messages and testimony from Camela Kay, Eric’s wife, and his mother, Sandy Kay.
Camela Kay testified in her deposition that in April 2019, she told Taylor about Kay’s potential connection to Skaggs. Similarly, Sandy testified that she suggested to Mead that Skaggs might be receiving drugs from her son.
“I told him that Kelly (Kay, Eric’s sister) had said he told her those pills were for Tyler,” Camela testified that she told Taylor. Mead has previously said he was unaware that Kay was providing pills to Skaggs.
In a filing, the Skaggs side highlighted a log of Kay’s prescription history, showing evidence that Angels team physician Craig Milhouse was prescribing Kay the opioid Hydrocodone, and did so 15 times between 2009 and 2012.
Milhouse is also relevant to another part of the Skaggs’ case. In order to show that Kay was someone who would get drugs for players through various means, they’ll highlight testimony that Kay asked Milhouse to write a Viagra prescription for an unnamed person with the Angels.
Big picture, their goal is to show evidence that the Angels were aware of Kay’s addiction, and neglected to adequately address it, despite Kay’s direct access to the team and its players. This evidence will come from coworkers observing Kay acting erratically at work and in the press box, as well as players’ experiences interacting with Kay, and in some cases receiving pills from him.
Notably, the judge in this case has indicated she’s open to their arguments. In an August ruling denying the Angels’ motion for summary judgment, Judge H. Shaina Colover wrote, “There is evidence that … Angels Baseball had knowledge that Kay was distributing drugs to players and failed to take measures to get him to stop.”
Ultimately, the Skaggs side wants to show that if the Angels knew about Kay’s addiction, then they should have known he would be a liability to have in the clubhouse.

What will the Angels argue?The Angels’ argument will be centered on Skaggs’ responsibility in his own death. They’ll also seek to show that the team was not aware Kay was providing pills to Skaggs, and that it operated properly in dealing with Kay’s addiction.
“Under the law it is significant that Tyler Skaggs struggled with addiction for nearly a decade and knowingly used drugs from multiple different unsecured and illegal sources,” Angels attorney Todd Theodora told The Athletic in June.
The team has been paying for Kay’s legal defense, due to a shared interest in limiting the scope of his responsibility in Tyler’s death. If his conviction were to be overturned, it would help the Angels in their legal argument. If Kay is no longer criminally culpable, then the Angels’ civil culpability might also be impacted.
In team president John Carpino’s deposition testimony published in court filings earlier this week, he was asked if he disputed Kay’s conviction. Carpino said, “I do,” citing his belief that Kay had ineffective counsel and that there wasn’t enough fentanyl in Skaggs’ system to kill him.
“I am not in agreement with the jury’s decision,” he said.
The Angels have argued that Skaggs knowingly ingested dangerous and illegal pills, and that he had numerous drug sources, including former big league pitcher Matt Harvey, and Skaggs’ close friend Christopher Leanos. Harvey has previously declined to comment.
Leanos has not responded to a subpoena for his deposition testimony, and there is an active bench warrant for his arrest. The Angels also want to question Leanos about a deleted text exchange between him and Skaggs days before Skaggs died. The text, Angels attorneys argue, was Leanos warning Skaggs about the dangers of certain pills. The Athletic was not able to reach Leanos for comment.

The Angels will also argue that they had no recourse to fire Kay, because the team put him on leave to attend rehab in April 2019, and he successfully completed that rehab.
There will be evidence presented that numerous people in the organization were aware of Kay’s addiction before Skaggs died. But the Angels will argue that Kay’s recovery entitled him to return to his normal job.
“He has rights as an employee,” said Angels senior VP Molly Jolly in deposition testimony. “He’s, you know, protected in California for his privacy and to get treatment, and that’s what he did. And a doctor reinstated him to work.”
The Angels will also note that Skaggs’ family was aware of Tyler’s drug use, dating back to a 2013 addiction to Percocet, but that the team was never made aware of that addiction.
Which big league players might testify?Trout will almost certainly be called as a witness. His name was brought up in recent deposition testimony filed by the Skaggs family, though his actual deposition — taken in January — has yet to be released.
Trout offered to pay for Kay’s drug rehabilitation in 2018, according to former Angels clubhouse attendant Kris Constanti’s deposition testimony.
“We were over by Trout’s locker and Eric was asking for something, an autograph, I believe,” Constanti testified. “And (Trout) goes, “If you get help, I’ll pay for it. Aren’t you worried about your kids?”
Additionally, at least four witnesses testified that they’d heard Kay did gross or painful exercises in exchange for money. This included eating a pimple off of Trout’s back. There were other antics unrelated to Trout, such as deliberately getting hit by a batting cage fastball.
Through his attorney, Trout declined to comment.
comment imageDebbie Hetman, mother of Tyler Skaggs, hugs Mike Trout during a 2019 game where all Angels wore #45 in Skaggs’ honor. (John McCoy / Getty Images)
It’s also expected that pitcher Andrew Heaney — a very close friend of Skaggs — will testify about Skaggs, what he saw from his behavior and their friendship as a whole.
Harvey, who has admitted to being a separate drug source for Skaggs, could also be called to the stand. Former Angels C.J. Cron, Cam Bedrosian, Mike Morin all testified at Kay’s criminal trial that he provided them illegal pills. They’ve been deposed in the civil case, and could testify.
A witness list has not yet been made public.
Who are the lawyers?The Skaggs’ side’s top lawyers are both very high-profile.
Rusty Hardin, 83, has represented many athletes over the years, including pitcher Roger Clemens, who faced accusations that he perjured himself in front of U.S. Congress. The Houston-based lawyer also represented NFL quarterback Deshaun Watson, who was accused civilly of sexual misconduct.
The family recently brought on Shawn Holley to be co-lead counsel in their case. Holley is best known for being a part of the legal defense team that defended O.J. Simpson in his criminal trial, resulting in his acquittal. She has also represented many celebrity clients, including former Dodgers pitcher Trevor Bauer.
The Angels are represented by Todd Theodora and his firm, Theodora-Ohringer. Theodora has represented the Angels for decades. In 2005, when the city sued the team for changing the name from the Anaheim Angels to the Los Angeles Angels of Anaheim, he oversaw their successful defense of the name change.
Because both sides are expected to bring around a dozen lawyers, the judge said she was hoping to secure a larger courtroom for the trial.
What will be the court’s schedule?This trial is scheduled to take nearly two months from its Sept. 22 start date. The first two weeks are for “motions in limine,” when the judge will hear arguments and motions relating to the case before it actually begins.
Whether or not Kay’s criminal conviction holds up as evidence will be of paramount importance in that process. That will determine if the Angels can or cannot argue the circumstances surrounding Skaggs’ death, or present alternate theories of what happened. If the judge prevents such arguments from being made, it could shorten the length of the trial.

Jury selection is expected to start on Oct. 6, against the backdrop of the MLB playoffs. The judge said she wants to take the rare step of having six alternate jurors, meaning that 18 jurors will need to be selected. The lengthy trial, combined with the looming Thanksgiving holiday, creates extra concern that jurors will drop out.
Once the jury is selected, the actual trial will begin. In California, a unanimous verdict is not required; only nine of the 12 jurors need to agree on liability.
Could the two sides settle before, or during, the trial?Yes. Only about 1 percent of civil cases go to a trial, according to a 2017 study published by Duke Law School. The vast majority are resolved through settlements or some form of arbitration. That could still happen in this case. However, there is no indication that a settlement is being considered by either side.
Relations between the two sides have been extremely contentious. In a filing on Sept. 17, lawyers for the Angels alleged that the Skaggs family’s attorneys were committing witness tampering by allegedly hiding Garret Ramos, who is Skaggs’ half-brother and a witness the Angels would like to depose.
The Angels view Ramos as a key witness in this case. They presented criminal trial testimony that indicates he may have deleted a text message off of Skaggs’ cell phone in 2019, before law enforcement was able to access it.
There is a separate hearing scheduled for Thursday afternoon to hear the Angels’ request for terminating sanctions, which the team hopes results in a dismissal of the case.
When the team made the witness tampering allegation in front of the judge, Hardin said, according to court filings, that “When you accuse another lawyer of a crime, you better be strapped on.” The Angels wrote in a filing that their lawyer “understood this as a threat of violence.”

“I’m flattered that they’re trying so hard to get me and our firm off the case,” Hardin told The Athletic, while denying the allegation. “That’s a compliment, and I take it that way.”
Even as it appears the two sides aren’t on track for a settlement, one could be reached during the trial as well, ending the proceedings and excusing the jury from rendering a verdict.
Will Eric Kay testify? How about Arte Moreno?It is still undecided whether Kay will take the stand. He declined to do so at his criminal trial, a decision he has said he regrets.
Ultimately the Angels’ case will likely seek to re-litigate important elements of his criminal case. And with the Angels funding his legal defense, there is a mutually beneficial partnership between the Angels and Kay, and it might be in the Angels’ best interest to have Kay testify.
It seems unlikely that Moreno, owner of the Angels, will be called to the stand. There’s no evidence that he has given deposition testimony at any point. However, Carpino will likely be called to the stand, as well as Jolly, another high-ranking Angels official, among others.
Is there precedent for a case like this?It appears that no MLB team has been found responsible for the death of a player. However, there are some tangential examples of teams and organizations receiving culpability if an athlete dies under their watch.
The family of former University of Maryland football player Jordan McNair was awarded $3.5 million after he collapsed and died from heatstroke during a team workout in May 2018.
Zeke Upshaw, an NBA G-League player, collapsed and died from cardiac arrest in March 2018. His family settled a wrongful death lawsuit against the Pistons and NBA.
In 2016, the NFL agreed to settle a billion-dollar lawsuit with thousands of former players related to head injuries. However, the NFL admitted no fault as part of the settlement.

Angels2020Champs
Legend
2 days ago
Reply to  RexFregosi

The lawyers for Skaggs, that should say enough. Is Gloria Allred on that team too?!

Jeff Joiner
Editor
Legend
1 day ago
Reply to  RexFregosi

So if I’m reading this correctly:

In CA he has a right to return to work after completing rehab. So an employer who fired him or demoted him would be discriminating against him. Ok, makes sense.

In CA if an employee with a known drug habit interacts with other employees and supplies them with drugs the employer can be held liable if they knew about the employee being a drug user and seller. I can kind of see that.

But what I don’t see is those two laws being able to exist simultaneously.

gitchogritchoffmypettis
Legend
Reply to  Jeff Joiner

You just aren’t seeing the true north of this trail blazing future dazzle blend of laws and regulations Jeff. See, all you have to do is act like junkies never relapse and you’ll be fine. I think it would really help you see the logic if you never own a business, never really have a job and live in a gated community in a really nice area….

Senator_John_Blutarsky
Legend

Angels employees and executives, discussing clubhouse behavior they were aware of involving Kay — including eating a pimple off Trout’s back in exchange for cash.

Just please make it stop.

Turk's Teeth
Editor
Super Member
1 day ago

The reported humiliations and self-degradation of Kay is pretty stomach-turning. Both that he was such an ostensible simp and suck-up, and that players around him would participate in the ritual hazing of an adult with clear substance abuse issues.

I’d say that Phillip Seymour Hoffman should play him in the biopic, but we lost him to opiates as well.

Angels2020Champs
Legend
1 day ago
Reply to  Turk's Teeth

💯

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