Angels Swept in Toronto Postgame

We call this a good old fashioned LOBster fest of a series in these parts. LOB being the acronym for Left on Base and all. When the bottom of the lineup features castoffs and wire claims, it is tough to depend on them to punch in the MLB caliber hitters getting on base in front of them.

12 Angels were stranded on the basepaths today, leading to a third straight loss in the land of the Maple Leafs.

Mike Trout didn’t need anybody do drive him in. He got the scoring started with a solo shot in the first inning.

Taylor Ward also had a great game, going 3 for 3 with a walk, RBI, and stolen base through 7 innings. He finally made an out in the 9th inning. The fact he reached base safely 4 times but did not score a run tells you all you need to know about how the bottom of the order fared.

Tyler Anderson was decent, Brock Burke really came through to keep the game tied, but the defense again had a critical miscue.

Back to 3 games under .500 as the team heads home for a crucial 7 game stretch starting tomorrow.

Subscribe
Notify of
67 Comments
Newest
Oldest Most Voted
Inline Feedbacks
View all comments
DMAGZ13
Trusted Member
1 hour ago

Barely watched this series, knew it would be bad because they are bad every trip to Toronto. Could’ve won all 3, at least 1 to stay 1 game under but that’s too much I guess. The fact that they can’t score a free runner from 2B with no outs ever since this rule was adopted is not a player issue but an organizational problem that stems from coaching. And the coaching is what Perry is implementing. And also I’d say the biggest reason our offense sucks is the strikeouts and that’s coaching too. Let’s face it, Perry has done maybe 3 things only in 5 years related to development, it’s Ward, drafting Neto, Schanuel. Wash gets credit for Adell and Soriano. After that everything has been a miss. Perry is in over his head and he should be fired just like Rizzo was today.

JackFrost
Legend
10 minutes ago
Reply to  DMAGZ13

Glad you said this… You echoed alot of my thoughts, especially this part :

“The fact that they can’t score a free runner from 2B with no outs ever since this rule was adopted is not a player issue but an organizational problem that stems from coaching. And the coaching is what Perry is implementing. And also I’d say the biggest reason our offense sucks is the strikeouts and that’s coaching too.”

This leads me back to my discussion of coaching and philosophy, especially that of our hitting coach Johnny Washington. I said back in early May that he has to go. I backed that statement up with statistical facts. The Angels at that time were at the bottom of the League in OBP and also led of all baseball in strikeouts.

Yeah, the HR’s are great, but they are also problematic. If your team relies almost solely on HR’s to score then you are especially susceptible to long run scoring droughts and cold periods… We see this every year in the playoffs with teams who rely too much on the longball — they get shut down.

The Angels, as you accurately stated, are horrible at moving/advancing runners, bad at getting them in from 3rd with less than two outs and in the bottom five in MLB in hits per game and walks per game. We also, as most know, lead all of MLB baseball in strikeouts per game, and that number is 9.80. BTW, we are also in the bottom five in number of Sacrifice Flies per game (only three teams are worse).

This has to reflect on the hitting coach, in our case Johnny Washington. When I first suggested he needed to be fired I was attacked by many on this site. And it just so happened that about a week later we went on an offensive explosion for about a week that coincided with a four game sweep of the A’s in Sacramento.

People at that time laughed at me, but they didn’t realize that the week in question was an outlier and that my underlying critique was accurate. Similar to what you are saying DMAGZ I am suggesting the Angels offensive problems stem from a lack of a coherent and intelligent philosophy, and not from a lack of talent on the roster. This is the real issue with the team right now. And I would say it is primarily on the offensive side, not the pitching.

Last edited 10 minutes ago by JackFrost
Fansince1971
Legend
7 minutes ago
Reply to  JackFrost

It’s a feast or famine team which is to say it is inconsistent. Over 162 games, inconsistency really hurts. When things are going good, it’s gravy. But for an inconsistent team, famine is usually the other side of the coin.

FungoAle
Legend
2 hours ago

Chad Stevens stymied today, still requires 2,999 more hits to clinch his HOF induction

gitchogritchoffmypettis
Legend

In response to some of the long DMs some of you have been sending me regarding this topic, you can stop begging and listing all the ways that the team needs me and I can both help the Angels AND maintain my status as an interstate artist/playboy/vigilante justice. I have sent the Angels an email and let them know I am indeed available in this upcoming draft as well as the last 20.

Stoopid Stoneman. Stoopid Reagins. Stoopid JeDi. Stoopid Eppler. Stoopid Perry.

WallyChuckChili
Legend
gitchogritchoffmypettis
Legend

And thus dies the “We can rebuild…. AND PUSH FOR THE POST SEASON!” bullshit.

It’s cool. Keep playing tough. Trade some old men for new kids. Draft well. Get O’Hoppe on a good track. Root for Nolan, Zach, Adell and Mike Trout to finish strong. Maybe play spoiler a little. Solid entertaining season. Be even better next year. I’m in.

Christ this was an ass itch of a series. Sucks.

WallyChuckChili
Legend
4 hours ago

Letting Campero bat with the bases loaded, Genius Ray!

Eric_in_Portland
Legend
5 hours ago

we all know we have a bad run differential. I just took a quick look at some of the games that have caused it.

We lose 8-1 (opening day!) Ryan Johnson 1.2 innings, 5 runs
another early loss, 12-5, Ian Anderson 1 inning, 5 runs
a Silent C game where he put us in a hole and then we lost 14-3 with Michael Darrell-Hicks pitching an inning, giving up 4. Ian Anderson returned to give up 3.
One of Hendricks’ bad starts, we lost 11-4, mostly on him
One you might remember, a 9-1 loss with Jansen coming in and giving up 6 in 2/3 of an inning
Another poor Silent C outing which Darrell-Hicks did not help, giving up 3 in one inning
and the most recent one, a couple of weeks ago, losing 11-2 to the Orioles. Brogdon gave up 4 in 1.1 of relief.

in those 7 games we were outscored 78-17. In all other games, 82 of them, we have a run differential of +12. So my point is that a lot of that bad differential came from horrible relief pitching that ended with us getting blown out. And this means when the pen does its job we’re actually decent.

angelslogic
Legend
4 hours ago

Interesting stuff.

Turk's Teeth
Editor
Super Member
3 hours ago

I do think, though, that this analysis could be done for almost team – and “if not for these 5-10 terrible games, we’d have more positive x” could be said of most.

The difference is that the Angels don’t have as many blowouts in the other direction to even things out. The Dodgers were blown out 18-1 by Houston on July 4. They also lost to the Cubs in Wrigley 16-0 earlier this year. But they still have a +81 run differential, despite double digit blowout losses, because they have a number of large margin victories on the other side of the ledger as well.

What’s unusual – and I’ll risk fans getting pissed off by saying, what’s lucky – is that the Angels have had so many one-run or small-margin victories, despite lacking what teams typically need to succeed in those one-run contests: a lockdown bullpen, good team defense, and strong situational hitting (walking, bunting, moving the player over).

So the Angels having good fortune in one run victories has seemed like a mixed blessing because, one, if they could get more men on base and get them home, there shouldn’t be so many one-run games in the first place (and there certainly should be more blowouts, given the Angels longball prowess). And two, winning a lot of one-run games doesn’t seem repeatable or sustainable over a full season without better defense, more on-base ability and team RISP (as a team, they lead the MLB in strikeout % with men in scoring position).

gitchogritchoffmypettis
Legend
Reply to  Turk's Teeth

This is totally true…. though also likely gets fixed by 4 or five better players on next years squad.

Turk's Teeth
Editor
Super Member
3 hours ago

If the team gets them, great.

Just requires the front office to do something they haven’t done in a while – trade currently viable players for younger goods, and spend more broadly in the Kikuchi tier of talent in free agency, rather than on rehabbing veterans and one-year wonders.

gitchogritchoffmypettis
Legend
Reply to  Turk's Teeth

Don’t worry. I see what you are saying without saying and I agree. Offer Tyler Mahle 90M over three years.

Roy Hobbs
Super Member
2 hours ago

That is true, accurate, and very funny.

JackFrost
Legend
3 hours ago
Reply to  Turk's Teeth

You could actually argue a tad earlier in the season that we did have a lock down bullpen, at least for the very back end, especially Kenley. And THAT was the reason we were so good in one run games…He was 15 for 15 in saves chances before he finally blew his first save against the Nats last weekened….And in fact, the only time he got hit was in a game (I think there were two games he gave up a run or runs) where Wash threw him into a non-save situation… He has since come out and said he does not like being utilized that way, so I would say that was not an accident….

So, our closer was indeed lockdown. Our set-up guys were close to perfect as well, so I contend that the record in 1 run games was not lucky but the result of the back-end of the pen being very good. Now, you might argue that they cannot keep that up, and I might be inclined to believe you. But the fact that they have been that good was not the result of luck… It was not like alot of hard hit balls were caught on the warning track etc.. Kenley has been generating the kind of outs he always has, weak contact and letting his defense make relatively easy plays behind him.

He has done it before, thus I say not really “lucky.”

Last edited 3 hours ago by JackFrost
Turk's Teeth
Editor
Super Member
25 minutes ago
Reply to  JackFrost

I wouldn’t argue that though. You’re speaking about a closer converting occasional saves (already a dubious metric), not a 7-8 man bullpen.

Through the end of April, the Angels’ bullpen ERA was worst in the AL and second-worst in the MLB, at 5.49. Over the same period, Ben Joyce had a 6.23 ERA and Zeferjahn a 4.15 ERA, so calling the set-up guys “close to perfect” seems ill-remembered.

In May, it got far worse: 6.93 team ERA. Joyce and Stephenson went down for the count, and only Strickland had a sub-4 ERA.

I don’t think that’s remotely a lockdown ensemble, so yes, I think it remains quite lucky that the Angels won so many one run contests despite one of the least performant team bullpens in the sport, one of the worst team defenses in the sport, and K% and BB% rates that don’t portend to getting them on and getting them in.

JackFrost
Legend
48 seconds ago
Reply to  Turk's Teeth

Well, you ended by talking about K% and BB% which I don’t disagree with and never argued against. I think the offensive approach and performance is pathetic, outside of an impressive SLG % backed by our high HR totals… I mention above in a separate comment all the problems with relying so much on the HR for scoring… so I don’t disagree with you about the offensive problems…

As for the bullpen I indeed did not remember Joyce and Zef (early on only !) being that bad.. I will have to go back and look at game logs but I suspect those ERA’s were inflated by 1 bad outing that was most likely not a high leverage or Hold situation, but I could be wrong on that.

Cowboy26
Legend
3 hours ago
Reply to  Turk's Teeth

Good teams are lucky.

EOS

WallyChuckChili
Legend
1 hour ago
Reply to  Cowboy26

I like getting Lucky!

Roy Hobbs
Super Member
2 hours ago
Reply to  Turk's Teeth

My thoughts exactly, we have been more lucky than good, excellent pitching not withstanding.

JackFrost
Legend
2 hours ago
Reply to  Roy Hobbs

So, if you are saying “excellent pitching nothwithstanding,” then what are you suggesting was lucky ? Our HR’s ? We had a couple great comeback wins in the 9th inning when we were trailing … Were those “lucky?”

Last edited 2 hours ago by JackFrost
Roy Hobbs
Super Member
2 hours ago
Reply to  JackFrost

All I’m saying is that the pitching was the only reason we had a chance to win those games because we weren’t scoring a lot of runs. The fact is, winning lots of close games is more about luck than being good. Winning more blowouts is the definition of being good. The single strongest correlation to a team’s success is the number of runs they score. So yes, winning lots of close games is lucky whether you’re a good team or a bad team. The things you mention are important and likely helped us in those close situations, but the pitching is what got us those opportunities, not our ability to score runs.

JackFrost
Legend
1 hour ago
Reply to  Roy Hobbs

Well, I disagree with your basic premise. Winning alot of close games is not necessarily lucky. In fact, I would say the opposite is true. But it really comes down to how your team is constructed, and if there is an ascertainable approach or philosophy.

So, for example the 1982 Cardinals were a team built on speed, pitching and defense. They were tailored to the park they played in. I have not looked, but I would be willing to bet they had a whole shit ton of wins by 1-2 runs… That does not make them “lucky.” And they sure as hell were a good team, in fact GREAT. They won the World Series that year.

Their team was designed to keep the game close, manufacture runs, get a lead and they shut it down with their pen (Closer was Bruce Sutter). And they were very good at what they did.

So, I will repeat that run differential is not all it is cracked up to be. I won’t say it is unimportant because you certainly don’t want to be in the bottom third statistically. But it is not everything. A one run win is worth just as much as a five or six run win. At the end of it all a win is a win.

Last edited 1 hour ago by JackFrost
Roy Hobbs
Super Member
1 hour ago
Reply to  JackFrost

That’s ok, we’ll agree to disagree, but the numbers say otherwise.

Last edited 1 hour ago by Roy Hobbs
JackFrost
Legend
1 hour ago
Reply to  Roy Hobbs

As regards the 82′ Cardinals, 50 of their 92 wins that year were by 1-2 runs. More than half their wins were by 1-2 runs. So they DID play alot of close games and won alot of close games.

As I stated they were World Series Champs that season.

Last edited 1 hour ago by JackFrost
Turk's Teeth
Editor
Super Member
5 minutes ago
Reply to  JackFrost

Honestly, Jack, you were dismissing run differential and playoff odds just a week ago, saying that there was “no universe” – rather exaggerated, categorical language – where the Red Sox had better playoff chances than the Angels, even if they had positive run differential and were underperforming expectations.

It’s roughly a week later, and the Red Sox are the first team behind Seattle for WC3, have a winning record, and are 6.5 games out of the division lead, while the Angels are 11.5 games out.

Front offices and team data ops use run differential and prediction systems for a reason – not because they are silly toys or misleading distractions, but because the predictions of mature models converge on outcomes more often than they diverge.

gitchogritchoffmypettis
Legend

Yah. We aren’t 25 players away from being OK. More like eight or nine all through the 25 man. Soonish we’ll be an alright team.

Roy Hobbs
Super Member
2 hours ago

Hopefully

Senator_John_Blutarsky
Legend

Yeah, but 29 other teams can say the exact same thing….

Eric_in_Portland
Legend
49 minutes ago

One thing I think is interesting is that all but one of those blowouts I listed happened between opening day and May 4th. So since May 5th we have a positive run differential

smithy610
Super Member
5 hours ago

I never thought I’d say this but I miss Ron Washington.

The Angels are 7-8 so far under the Montgomery era, so right about where they are the entire season – hovering around .500. Not a huge difference, records-wise.

But while the Boston sweep was impressive, and not being totally outclassed by the trash cans was good as well, maybe Ron wins that WSH series, and maybe steals a game, or two, against Toronto.

Oh well. Sell, sell, sell.

gitchogritchoffmypettis
Legend
Reply to  smithy610

I have it on good authority that Ron Washington is stupid and needs to be fired along with all the coaches. After all, he didn’t start Kyreeen Paris until something like game 3 AND he can’t make Rengifo bunt…. or brush his teeth.

Turk's Teeth
Editor
Super Member
5 hours ago

For any rational front office, this would be the clarifying series that confirms that the team should neither buy or stand pat at the deadline. End of the day the Angels are three games under .500, with most everyone from opening day but Joyce and Moncada still on the field.

Should Houston win today, they go 20 games over .500, and 11.5 games up on the Angels. If Seattle wins, the Angels fall 4.5 games under WC3, with 7 other teams competing for the same privilege. The current 1-in-25 odds for of making the playoffs via the wild card continue to seem correct to me.

This is the moment you put all the chips in to trade for controllable young talent that adds to the current core – the one thing sustaining fan interest.

Keep Kikuchi, Detmers and Adell, but Ward, Jansen, Anderson, Hendricks, and if anyone will have them, Moncada, Newman and Rengifo, need to go. If a Dana, Klassen or Aldegheri are needed to sweeten the pot and enhance the return, don’t think twice.

2GA2Join
Super Member
5 hours ago
Reply to  Turk's Teeth

Yes yes please yes.

And no drafting of Doyle either.

C’mon Perry you can get this right…

Senator_John_Blutarsky
Legend
Reply to  Turk's Teeth

Absolutely agree. I sure hope Arte and his Minion do not get delusional about the playoffs this season.

Cowboy26
Legend
3 hours ago
Reply to  Turk's Teeth

So O’Hoppe, Soriano, Neto, Moore and Schanuel are also Ok to trade.

Got it.

Turk's Teeth
Editor
Super Member
1 hour ago
Reply to  Cowboy26

Eh, no.

Roy Hobbs
Super Member
2 hours ago
Reply to  Turk's Teeth

Here here!

Phil
Member
5 hours ago

Trout didn’t make the All-Star team (barring being a last minute replacement).
Now, he can rest during that weekend.

Senator_John_Blutarsky
Legend
Reply to  Phil

Didn’t earn a position based on performance. I’d like to see him facing live pitching and working pitch recognition during the ASG break.

Last edited 4 hours ago by Senator_John_Blutarsky
smithy610
Super Member
4 hours ago
Reply to  Phil

Agree. I’d also rather he rest those knees and hopefully he will be able to run harder in the 2nd half, even if he can’t/won’t take the field still.

smithy610
Super Member
5 hours ago

You decide if JRod deserves to make it over Jo Adell:

IMG_8228
TrojanBoiler
Super Member
5 hours ago
Reply to  smithy610

The WAR discrepancy is due to defense I’m assuming?

WallyChuckChili
Legend
4 hours ago
Reply to  TrojanBoiler

100 more games of defense?

angelslogic
Legend
4 hours ago
Reply to  smithy610

Bias – against a team that uses two different cities to name itself.

Senator_John_Blutarsky
Legend
Reply to  smithy610

Without a better record and players delivering an exceptional first half of the season, the Angels could only expect one ASG roster slot. Kikuchi as the Angels rep for the ASG was the right call.

FungoAle
Legend
56 minutes ago

Kuuuuuch! Agree.

Roy Hobbs
Super Member
2 hours ago
Reply to  smithy610

Jo was an Allstar for 1 month out of 3 and J Rod has an elite defense reputation. If Joe plays the rest of the season just like June and picks up next year where he left off, he’ll be appropriately recognized.

FungoAle
Legend
52 minutes ago
Reply to  smithy610

I hate WAR. With a 100 less plate appearances (a 100!) Adell still takes him in the key offensive categories. Muther F-ers.

smithy610
Super Member
5 hours ago

Both Wayne Randazzo and Jeff Fletcher weren’t happy about the Jo Adell snub:

https://x.com/JeffFletcherOCR/status/1941975275350233373

https://x.com/WayneRandazzo/status/1941974841944343035

smithy610
Super Member
5 hours ago

Congrats to Yusei for being named to the All-Star game. Very well-deserved!!

FungoAle
Legend
59 minutes ago
Reply to  smithy610

Makes sense, Kikuchi has had a good run for last 5 weeks or so, limiting the walks and thus scoring chances

angelslogic
Legend
6 hours ago

Three one-run losses in a row to a good team is a metaphor for just how close the Angels are to being a winning team that just isn’t quite there yet.

angelsown3417
Trusted Member
6 hours ago

Kikuchi an All-Star

Roy Hobbs
Super Member
6 hours ago

In agreement with everyone. Our pitching has kept us in it and was good enough to win all 3 games. Not so much the hitting. The kids, except for Adell, are all regressing after hitting way over their heads for a significant period of time. As others have stated, we need more lottery tickets. We should trade everyone but the kids. We are better than last year but mostly because of our pitching. There is reason to believe that we can have decent pitching going forward into next year but we need a lot of offensive and defensive upgrades which may not happen until 2027.

MarineLayer
Legend
6 hours ago

Tank, sell at the deadline. Replenish the farm system.

Cowboy26
Legend
3 hours ago
Reply to  MarineLayer

Wash. Rinse. Repeat.

That concept worked really well for the Nationals. So much so it cost their believed POBO his job.

FungoAle
Legend
1 hour ago
Reply to  Cowboy26

That Soto trade was epic for the Nats. They don’t usually workout but they hit on this one.

Cowboy26
Legend
33 minutes ago
Reply to  FungoAle

Then why did they shit can their architect of that trade before the ASB? they couldn’t handle the wondrous tank?

FungoAle
Legend
57 minutes ago
Reply to  MarineLayer

Don’t need to tank, Angels won’t be part of the draft lottery but just sell some guys.while still shooting for the WC

Fansince1971
Legend
6 hours ago

10 minutes ago
The numbers behind the numbers show the Angels over performing substantially. Also the lack of significant injuries has been a huge positive. It is a feast or famine lineup with lots of Ks which does not bode well over 162. Also the defense is not very good.

I do like their fight. It’s nice to see. The bullpen is actually pretty decent.

Thinking the smart thing to do is to be sellers. We will see. If not sellers then stay put. Don’t sell young players.

Senator_John_Blutarsky
Legend
Reply to  Fansince1971

The pitching staff being healthy is huge. Any injuries to the SP would be devastating for the team.

Pineapple12
Legend
6 hours ago

Our bottom 3 starters and bullpen combined to limit Toronto to 11 runs over 3 games.

Offense was disastrously poor all series.

We will see how much resolve this team has left in these next 7 home games before the ASB.

Last edited 6 hours ago by Pineapple12
SD19
Trusted Member
6 hours ago

The half ass check swings are driving me crazy. No clue what the philosophy is there but they pretty much all are doing it. Played a hot team tough but clearly not well enough.

AllenB
Super Member
6 hours ago

14 K’s. SMDH

67
0
Would love your thoughts, please comment.x
()
x