Good morning Angels fans, who are you rooting for in the playoffs? Have some links and try not to fight.
Well, Eric Kay got his imprisonment time. 22 years. 20 for selling drugs leading to Skaggs death, and 2 years for badmouthing the Skaggs family, angering the judge.
Former Angel Dustin Garneau has retired. The catcher caught the Skaggs no hitter. Weird timing.
The Playoffs now continue, with the bracket and schedule looking like this.
After game 1, NYY, Houston, Phillies, and the Dodgers are ip 1-0 in the best of 5 series. The Houston Seattle game in particular has the most mixed feelings amongst Angels fans, especially with how the Mariners blew it in one of the most blowing it ways possible.
Game 2 for all 4 NL teams are today, but not for the AL, that is tomorrow, for some reason.
One of the oddities of Baseball has been Nick Castellanos performing well when someone famous dies or there is a tragic event. So last night during game 1 of the NLDS, Angela Lansbury died, which meant Nick Castellanos did his thing.
Oh yeah, last thing, it rained yesterday in SoCal. Did you get any? The Dodgers did.
Anything I missed? Post below for upvotes.
I have a question about the whole legal thing.
So regarding whatever civil lawsuits that might be targeting the Angels in the next bunch of months.
Say that Arte manages to sell in the next couple of months, and the new owner takes over and has all new staff.
Then there are trials, and obviously in order to have people testify before a court, you need to have people relevant to the case. So you won’t see any of the new people testifying, they’ll have to bring in Arte and all his business buddies as needed (assuming it ever gets that far).
But those guys are completely separated from the Angels organization at that point. And I assume any lawsuit targets the Angels organization, not the individuals like Arte and his buddies.
So how are those guys incentivized to put up much of a defense? Isn’t there conflict of interest? Those guys could get up on the stand, and say “Yes your honor, we did drugs big time. We like drugs at the Big A.” And then walk away back to their Newport Beach homes and face no consequences, while the Angels new ownership gets raked over the coals.
I know I’m totally wrong somewhere and don’t understand, so that is why I’m asking my question, to the people who are lawyers, know law, or who try to pretend to be lawyers while answering questions on this site.
Plaintiffs will probably depose them before the sale. Before the sale, the story will probably be “We have zero tolerance. That’s why we ditched Josh Hamilton.” If they change their story later they can be impeached at trial.
I could be wrong, but any litigation will need to be solved prior to the sale going through. This should actually very likely help the Skaggs family since Arte will be forced to settle so the sale can go through.
There are rumors that Artie has actually settled with the families the legal papers just have not been finalized, have not seen anything in print, but that would make sense for Artie to get all the stuff cleaned up before selling the team.
In large or any business sales the buyer will always ask the seller to indemnify them against in lawsuits that are brought against the business before the buyer took over the business, it’s pretty standard stuff.
All of this talk about signing Ohtani is so premature. Until a new owner is in place and determines budgets it’s wild speculation to the point of the ridiculous.
Wait…”wild speculation” on CtPG is no longer permissible?
So much for the Perry Minasian articles.
So much for 80% of comments.
i’ve done some things at night i’m glad i’ve forgotten and many other choices at night i wish i could forget, many things i’m not too proud of, etc. and some of my choices were down right skanky, but i’m not sure i’ve felt as dirty as I did this morning –
what the hell – was i REALLY rooting my ass off for the Astros last night?
Lol, I can’t say I like any of the fellow AL West teams but Astros are the clear bottom for me
That’s what the Giant Meteor is for, so you don’t have to root for either the Trashstros or the Latte Sippers.
Guys am I way off on valuation on what its going to take annually for an Ohtani extention? Would 40mil AAV work? That’s only $10mil more than he’s making now. Yes we would have to increase payroll, but I think it may just work out with the young, cheap pitching staff that the Angels are creating. It’s going to be a very fun offseason, and I’m looking forward to reading/sharing all of our GM ideas!
I just don’t think the Angels can build a competitive team with so much going to three players. Hate to see the Unicorn go.
They can. Many of the teams that are close to us in salary (Blue Jays, Astros) also have at least three players making 20+M and some (Altuve, Springer) making quite a bit more.
If Rendon had been contributing, and Trout was healthy all year, we wouldn’t be having this conversation. It isn’t how much he makes, it is how often people are on the field. And that was carrying Upton’s 25M (so we were essentially already paying the 30M Ohtani will make next year).
That’s what I’m seeing as well when I built the spreedsheet. Look, the big three need to be on the field, that’s #1. But Perry has done a good job of building a young core (and really cheap) that will allow us to be top heavy. I don’t see a new owner giving away Ohtani for $10million, which is what I think the additional payroll will need to be in order to build a team.
20+ M is very different from 38-50M per year. That’s several fairly important roster additions worth of payroll per year.
sure but we would have 3 guys making $40 million (average) each and no history of the owner wanting to go above $180 million. Add in the others under contract and arbitration guys and that’s half the roster trying to be fit in for 20-30 million.
Trout and Rendon make 35M. Ohtani has a contract at 30M. No one is at 40M (yet).
I just don’t think most people around here grasp that business men (women, groups, mush piles) buy teams. Unless there are a bunch of secret new ways the team can make more money per year, the team’s income potential pretty much is what it is. It goes up, but so do operating costs, payroll demands, etc etc etc.
How likely is it that NewOwnerz looks at the team they just bought, looks at what it brings in per year in a good year, and decides it would be smart to up payroll by 30% for several years?
Do we just think Arte was THAT cheap? That there’s an extra 15% in there that NewOwnerz will decide they don’t want and will spend on Ohtani+Players instead? Do we think that “investing in winning” will produce that extra 30%+ bump year in and year out above what the team was making off 3mil fans per year at a 180M payroll in the past? Do we think NewOwnerz will just have their balls on fire to win because winnerz and biceps and shit and screw making money? How long can they do that? Why would they do that?
I just don’t think NewOwnerz will make huge long term payroll changes. I think they’ll hopefully make baseball ops changes that actually get 190M worth of baseball out of a 190M payroll. But that will take some time. I don’t think said plan will involve overpaying a 34 year old Ohtani in a few years. But hey, if I’m wrong I’ll enjoy me some Ohtani.
New York Mets Opening Day Payroll 2021, $167mil
New York Mets Opening Day Payroll 2022, $253mil
Dodgers 2011, $104mil
Dodgers 2012, $95mil
Dodgers 2013, $216mil
We aren’t the Dodgers or the Mets. We are also not likely to get an owner as stupid as Cohen. Also, let’s see how long Cohen is willing to be as stupid as Cohen.
Whomever buys the team is not going to pay cash for the team. Some part of the purchase will be financed, and cost of paper these days has gone up significantly compared to prior years. Cash flow will matter.
I could see a new owner thinking that signing Ohtani to the biggest contract in MLB history would immediately ingratiate him/her with the fanbase. If you thought lowering beer prices bought Arte years (decades?) of goodwill from the fans, signing Ohtani would really get the fans behind them.
We’ll have to see. The “drunken sailor unicorn” we all wish for is more likely to happen if it’s mostly a single owner buying and not a “group”. These single folks would also be more inclined to care if the fanbase is stuffed full of good graces since, really, why does the owner need “good graces” to be farmed for the crime of buying the team? But a single ego may be more into this…. which I’d appreciate.
Though you gotta love the same people who bitch constantly about BIG SPLASH Arte demanding possibly the biggest splash evah from the new owner right off the bat.
Apparently new ownerz will enable a 300mil payroll and can just print money while neglecting other expenses of running an organization because hope and faith.
I can’t tell what you mean. New owners can print money (sarcasm?) + but they will be dumb and cut corners elsewhere? Or Arte does this? + same one track complaint theme a lah TootyToo?
Or it is dubious to think NewOwnerz will spend at a pie in the sky level + something about them not spending on the rest of the org for some reason I can’t connect to the first pat + same one track complaint theme a lah TootyToo?
What I meant is that people assume the new ownerz will just up the payroll to 300mil in their first year and won’t have other expenses to deal with.
Ahhh. Well yes. That’s absolutely why they will do. It makes perfect sense.
Shohei brings in a ton of extra revenue from advertising/merchandising, etc. LA times said 10 million, bleacher nation article 25-30 mil, a guy I know who knows a guy says Japan alone is 10s of millions. So what is an overpay?
The Springfield Bullhorn said who gives a shit? I’m sure Shohei brings in extra money, how much? Who knows? Merch, etc is split with the other teams, I know that. I’m sure there are some fans that come to the Big A simply to see him too.
I also know that, while that influx probably matters a little bit, I don’t see teams uping their payroll by 30M because they think (Star’s name here) will generate that amount by simply being on the team. So I don’t expect NewOwnerz to do it either. If they do, hurray. I’m just not counting on it.
Well, do you realistically think that there isn’t another team out there that won’t offer him 42M AAV? Or 45M AAV? Or 45M AAV over a contract that’s a year longer than the Angels offered?
More importantly, do you believe that Ohtani’s agents believe that’s not out there? Or that Ohtani will NOT want to take a look and will demand that they ignore those possiblities and just sign an Angels extension?
Most importantly, what does his mom think and how often, on average, are the Angels players having sex in a week?
I’ll happily keep Shohei, but chasing him in the FA market could mean another off season of tying up our whole plan waiting for the biggest name on the market to decide where he wants to go, then if we “win” we are tangled up with paying “the Babe” for ten years when he will almost certainly not hit anywhere near like the Babe when he eventually limits out to being a DH. It’s a tough call even when you take emotions out of it, which I do.
The best way to retain Ohtani if he wants to stay is via a tiered contract where he can say he got $300 million for seven years or whatever. But it is structured where he makes like $30 million in year one and other money is backlogged to $45-48 million in years 6-7 when Rendon will be gone etc.
$40 million for 2 players. 1 elite pitcher 1 elite 30hr power/speed threat on offense that gets punished for DHing. I’d pay $28 mil for the arm and $17 mil for the bat on the market. He’s been worth it over the past two seasons. Mostly because of availability. The question isn’t if he’s worth it; the question is how sustainable is it?
Sooooo….. run it back for 10 more?
I guess we don’t know if we wants the stability of a 10 yr/$400 million deal but I can certainly see a $50 million AAV shorter deal on the table especially if he wants opt out flexibility.
I’d pay Ohtani a CRAP TON, like 55M a year, for 5 years and also bloat the payroll if I were NewOwnerz…. then clamp down and get myself a cheap team full of young guys and a 150M a year payroll after Rendon/Ohtani contract out and start making money off my three billion dollar team.
But that’s just me. I also seriously doubt Ohtani goes for that.
I agree. I’d get “stupid” (or stupiderer) on the annual salary over a shorter duration (no more than 6 years) and give Ohtani an “out” after three years.
No way I’m going 10 years….
Just watch, as soon as he signs this giant contract and then starts to stink the first year into his contract, fans here if CTPG will be whining and saying “this was a bad signing.
They also to fail to understand that you have to convince him to sign an extension here, they have never made the playoffs his whole entire time here and they think if we throw money at him he will stay?
Oh wait, they will think “the new ownerz will just convince him by saying “27-13”, muh injuries, and Cali Swag and somehow that will convince him to stay in this mess.
They also think the new ownerz will boost the payroll to 300mil and don’t have to deal with other expenses because something something modern monetary theory.
Well, we’ve never grasped the concept of players wanting to play in other places and just not caring if the Angels offer them a truck load of money around here. We also don’t really grasp the concept of how expensive a baseball team is. It does seem like a lot of people just think Arte bought the team for XX million and then cash just piled up in his bank account to the tune of several billion and he just sleeps on it.
Kind of like the folks at Pinstripe Alley… without the generations of wining to justify the fanbase’s attitude.
“It does seem like a lot of people just think Arte bought the team for XX million and then cash just piled up in his bank account to the tune of several billion and he just sleeps on it.”
Couldn’t have agreed more.
I agree with what has been said by others, that regardless of how I would be glad if we got super rich new owners who boosted the payroll to afford Ohtani plus more money to surround him with solid players, that it would be super risky giving Ohtani what he wants. Even if he is super great right now. Because if he wants $45MM for 10 years, we’re probably going to really struggle with that at some point. And we’ve seen how injuries can happen.
Gerrit Cole throws shocking shade at Los Angeles Angels (thecomeback.com)
He’s not wrong
He’s not wrong……..but he’s also a clueless, entitled douche bag.
A workout at 10:40AM…….I feel for the Asshole.
You’re also not wrong
Huge deal being the “ace” for The Yankees. Too bad they are paying him a huge amount to be slightly worse than Patrick Sandoval, ERA wise.
This is bullshit. If Arte had just shown me he is committed to championshitness by showing Cole an extra eight million dollars a year then he’d be here and we’d have already won the 2022 World Series.
And he would be a “grit-filled real Angel” instead of a douche who felt us up and bailed from the limo.
He just had to say “Cali Swag” and somehow he would have signed here over New York where he gets the chance to go to the playoffs every year.
That right there is a funny, funny truth bomb….and I don’t like any of douche-bag Yankees
I root for two teams ordinarily… The Angels and whoever is playing the Yankees.
SInce the Angels are out, I feel like I’m pulling for the Dodgers just because I think Mookie Betts is such a classy guy.
I’m more about the Yankees losing and actually was pulling for the Guardians to sweep, after winning their first game, so they get more rest and are ready to play the Yankees. It’s hard, but I kind of feel the same about the Astros but I wouldn’t shed a tear if they lost to the M’s.
ANybody got a link to the USA Today article about the Angels selling quickly?
Hate linking it as it’s a “Nightengale special” where he’s likely picking up 0.1% of the proceeds in return for writing this SHILL piece.
Link seems worthless … actually found that link here:
I suggest the Nightengale quote is a plant by Arte . Isn’t Bobby Nightengale buds with Arte’s no. 1 ass kisser Roger Lodge?
Why wouldn’t you use him to plant the $3,000,000,000 figure even before any potential buyer names have been revealed?
Literally right now there are teams of very highly paid analysts working long hours of due diligence for various potential buyers to determine what the team should sell for, what it will likely sell for, and what they’d be willing to pay for it. They base the determinations on hundreds of factors, and I can promise you that not a single one of those factors is this piece by Nightingale. The $3B number is getting floated because that is a bit above where other recent sales of pro sports teams have been.
Personally, I wouldn’t be at all surprised if the team sells for well over $3B considering the market its in. The number of bored billionaires continues to increase, and those guys/gals need to plant their money somewhere. There’s been rumors that the Phoenix Suns will end up selling for over $4B.
Ballmer’s already got the Clips, I wouldn’t mind him. And if Cuban wants a crack at MLB, I wouldn’t mind him, either.
It sounds like the owner of the LA Times may be interested. He came in second in the bidding for the Dodgers.
Yeah, he’s my lead horse cause he’s already been vetted a fair amount via that Dodgers process. I’d also like to be owned by ANOTHER ethnic minority owner… that’d be cool in a small and unimportant way.
its the little things
I dont believe Patrick Soon-Shiong bid on the Doyers . I do believe he bought some of Magic’s Starbucks franchises and his 11% stake in the Lakers so that Magic could buy into the Guggenheim Ownership group.
But there is another LA Billionaire Sports team owner that almost bought the Doyers… https://bleacherreport.com/articles/1121940-report-rams-owner-stan-kroenke-approved-by-mlb-as-bidding-finalist-for-dodgers
Both have denied interest
I’m not horribly worried. Anyone with the cash (or ability to pull together the cash) to buy the team will be a pretty smart cookie. The team’s never gonna qualify for revenue sharing, so we won’t get a Nutting. So if those guys are out I’m still pretty optimistic about NewOwnerz.
I’m just not on the “Keep Shohei and have a 290M payroll for evah” dream train.
Just read where Nightengale says he’s picking Judge for MVP because the Yankees won their division. SMH, so if Ohtani and Judge had switched teams the accomplishment of an individual award of MVP would go to Ohtani because the Yankees have better management?
Actually, I understand this. If Judge and Ohtani were equal, which they actually aren’t, Judge was better, but if they were both within some skinny 0.3 WAR of each other or what not I’d probably vote for the guy whose WAR actually meant something in the big picture.
I disagree. It’s an individual achievement award so shouldn’t have anything to do with the team. Simply put, if Judge hit 100 HR’s for a team that lost 100 games, I don’t think anyone would argue he shouldn’t be the MVP, so a teams record should have nothing to do with it.
What if you have two guys who hit 100 HR? But one made the play offs?
I go with the guy with a bigger WAR, better OBP…?
I just see no sense in factoring in what the rest of the team does. MVP is not a team award.
Jesus man. OK, I guess you need the question spelled out in extreme detail. What if they have the same f***ing WAR but one of them makes the play offs? They even have the same number of stolen bases and sacrifice bunts too.
OMG you’re rude.
You use something beside team record. That’s what OBP… means.
“selling quickly” in the USA Today article seems to indicate the next few months. After an agreement is reached, it then requires league approval (which would likely be a formality). Upon a sale agreement unless new ownership is allowed to give PTP direction on the next season’s roster – the 2023 roster is most likely still going to built under Arte’s rules.
But but but…. your facts hurt my heart and squish my dreams.
I don’t agree with any of that…..
BTW I finally found out what a troll looks like…….Giant Middle Earth Trolls from Lord Of The Rings series……..I wonder if they’re smart?
Kind of the fantasy war movie version of a tank
is this a visual representation of your arc as a troll on HH and here?
The ridiculous AL off days ( which was done for TV viewing) definitely benefits the visiting teams to give their aces an extra day of rest .
The Mariners imitated the Angels yesterday. Bad choice.
What I like about this series is one of these teams will lose and be eliminated.
What I dislike about this series is one of these teams will win and not be eliminated.
Cup half full versus empty.
Scott Servais is still a damm good field skipper
Just think both him and his boss (GPD) used to work for us……..wonder if Soth really wanted him gone for that REASON!!!
Kay gone, I wonder when the shoe will drop on the civil suit against the Angels. I imagine any prospective owner would demand that mess be settled before they arrive.
I’m sure The insurance carriers control the case now. Arte won’t be settling that case independent of the carriers
How in the hell do you not understand that ANY phone calls you make or emails you send from jail are definitely going to be recorded and filed away? Especially since he was involved in communications! Well, he will file his appeal and probably end up doing somewhere between 5 to 10 years.
Not sure he will want out, he’s going to be BROKE the rest of his life.
My friends at work and I were talking about this whole Skaggs mess again. One of them had a good way of deciding what they think of the whole civil suit, which I thought was very direct.
Since simply being rich isn’t actually a crime, would we be comfortable with Momma and Wifey Skaggs suing a business owner that we know for a huge chunk of his net worth while claiming he/she is liable for their loved one and an employee clandestinely doing drugs?
Because, supposedly, the law is the same for you, me, our friend that owns a large contracting company (which we KNOW has a few guys that use drugs, share drugs, and have even had a couple crew members die from OD), and Arte/the Angels.
Basically, if Arte can be held civilly responsible for this then so can anyone in the same situation.
Is that something we want?
No, that would set a precedence that would create all kinds of problems.
Official Instagram Justice Take:
“But what if I really don’t like one person, but the other person is my friend? That changes everything about like laws and stuff right?”
Unfortunately, in the hands of our “justice system” these days, someone will make a podcast or “documentary” that will result in Kay getting freed and paid for his trouble.
Isn’t that what we already have, though? Negligence lawsuits have been around for my entire life and if said business owner’s negligence led to the death of an employee there’s a price to pay.
Now, the price to pay for killing an employee who likely makes $10 million per year vs. one who makes $75,000 per year will be different. Us normal folks are literally worth less so our deaths don’t prevent our families from living with Robin Leach.
Sure. The problem is, is “negligence” different when the dead guy is an important white person with a weepy white wife and the purportedly negligent person is a billionaire. As apposed to a building contractor in central California and his dead electrician…. whose family just gets on with life.
The Angels are a private corporation owned by stockholders which I assume to be Arte & Carol Moreno. Unless you pierce the corporate veil ( highly highly unlikely) The Angels and their carriers will be on the hook for any liability.
The Corporation in all likely hood will be sold before any resolution of the civil matters are reached in this case.
there is zero chance a new owner will allow this case to continue as a sale goes through. Arte will have to settle.
When you say zero I assume you mean 50 50?
Cuz This shit happens ALL the time during mergers and acquisitions. the worse thing that will happen is the new Owner and Arte will agree to a hold back.
For example do you think the Civil litigation concerning this case was settled before the Guggenheim Dodger sale closure? https://www.cnn.com/2014/02/20/justice/california-dodgers-baseball-beating
The Skaggs will have very little impact on the closing of the Angel sale. Bet on it