LA Angels Tuesday News Crash: Trainees?

MLB argues that minor league players should not be paid during spring training because they are trainees rather than employees. This interesting case goes to trial June 1, 2022 unless it gets disposed of by last Friday’s summary judgment hearing.

Here is an overlay of Shohei Ohtani’s fastball and splitter. Shohei does love striking people out.

The Angels got a grade of “C” for their 2006 draft with the big prize being Jordan Walden as it turned out.

I wonder what reason Garrett Richards had to Venmo $1,700 to Eric Kay.

This article gets into the nitty gritty of player valuation. While those guys make a lot of money, they don’t make it for all that long.

Noah Syndergaard announced that he can’t announce the beginning of baseball season.

The Angels have a couple of mentions in this list of the worst $100 Million signings as you might expect. Albert Pujols got an honorable mention and Josh Hamilton made it into the top ten. Vernon Wells is also mentioned, although he was classified as the Blue Jays screw up.

What do you think? Does MLB need a salary cap?

The Cardinals are hiring data and software engineers.

Photo credit: Rex Fregosi

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Fansince1971
Legend
2 years ago

I realize that The drug use issue that has come out during the Kay trial is not limited to Anaheim. Obviously the problem is much broader and somewhat reflects issues in greater society. But it leaves me feeling a bit dead inside about the sport, particularly in light of the fact that drug use does not even appear as one of the crux issues debated during this labor dispute.

I am beginning to view all of this strife between the owners and the players as being related only to money and not to the greater good and solving the problems of the sport. There is not even lip service being paid during the CBA negotiations to the drug issues that we are seeing everyday in the Kay trial. Obviously the usage we are hearing about from the players testifying in the Kay trial is just the tip of the iceberg. And yet the issue of pervasive drug use in the sport of baseball appears to be almost meaningless to the owners and players.

Even football recognized the PR problems associated with head injuries and concussions and took unified action both in new rules and concussion protocol to give the appearance like they knew something had to be done. This was as much to quell a PR and legal nightmare as to protect the players. But it at least gave the appearance of doing the right thing.

By comparison, Major League Baseball owners and players seem to have lost their compass. They appear to have ceded the high ground.

I have reached the point where I am sick of the players, I am sick of the owners. I am sick of the failure to consider the fans. Baseball has a major PR problem related to drug usage as well as the labor dispute. And yet no one seems to want to deal with it. Instead, the two sides are embroiled in a battle that is purely about money. As a fan and, I hope, a responsible human being, my frustration with the sport has never been higher I was a much younger man in 1994, and I think my tolerance levels were higher. Now, my inclination is to focus my attention elsewhere, rather than wasting my time involved with a sport that seems willing and determined to destroy itself.

BruinsAngelsKings
Trusted Member
2 years ago
Reply to  Fansince1971

 👍 

DMAGZ13
Trusted Member
2 years ago

I’m going to push back on the idea of let them party, managers should not be baby sitting them. If your performance is crap, you should be clean AF and trying to better. What a joke. Harvey sucked, Skaggs wasn’t exactly living up to the hype and Richards was made of glass. What right did they have to be screwing around on company trips and time?

Also, Eppler had to have been aware of Skaggs problem since he traded for this guy, AND all of these other morons. Harvey too, that was desperation.

Mike Sciosia really lost control of this squad and Brad Ausmus was no better.

Last edited 2 years ago by DMAGZ13
gitchogritchoffmypettis
Legend
Reply to  DMAGZ13

In a perfect world, I totally agree. But, this being the real world, please tell me which manager/GM you know has cracked down on this type of thing? Or was it just the Angels who have/had a bunch of junkies on their team?

The MLB’s drug testing policy is a joke. Even if it wasn’t, how are managers and GMs empowered to address these issues with a player? Players totally lose their shit when a manager comes to them and tells them he wants to try them at a new position. Imagine if BBB went to a player and said “I really need you to stop popping pills, smoking weed and snorting rails.”. Can teams really even punish a player on their own? Is there actually control to be lost?

Eric_in_Portland
Legend
2 years ago

This is going to be a nightmare season. I suspect that this trial news will make it more difficult for Perry.

Cowboy26
Legend
2 years ago

I doubt it has any impact. the lockout will have way more impact than Kay’s trial.

gitchogritchoffmypettis
Legend
Reply to  Cowboy26

I’d bet the players in general are even less shocked to learn some guys did drugs than they were to learn that the Astros (and only the Astros mind you) were stealing signs. Followed closely by the revelation that some players cheat on their wives.

steelgolf
Super Member
2 years ago

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/matt-harvey-admits-to-using-percocet-in-clubhouse-and-dugout-during-tyler-skaggs-trial-175735206.html

They were using drugs in both the clubhouse AND the dugout! Yikes. None of the coaches or managers noticed them taking drugs, popping pills in the dugout?

Fansince1971
Legend
2 years ago
Reply to  steelgolf

Really nice! This really is rocking my core as an Angel fan.

BruinsAngelsKings
Trusted Member
2 years ago
Reply to  Fansince1971

If you think think was/is only happening with the Angels then I’ve got some ocean front property in Arizona for you. If I had to guess, I’d bet the house that each team has some degree of this problem. Or did up until August 2019.

Last edited 2 years ago by BruinsAngelsKings
steelgolf
Super Member
2 years ago

We at least know The Mets had the problem with Harvey.

FungoAle
Legend
2 years ago

Definitely and I don’t fault the superiors for not doing strip searches, pulling cell phone records or having security to open up lockers to ensure the team is clean.

RexFregosi
Super Member
2 years ago
Reply to  Fansince1971

Angel fandom remains strong but a bunch of pitchers in the second half of the 2010s are assholes and can eat shit forthwith.

gitchogritchoffmypettis
Legend
Reply to  RexFregosi

Yah. This is a bummer, but it doesn’t shock or surprise me. The 86 Mets were when I was really little and everyone was scared of drugs. Nothing was done about that whole situation. 35 years later and all sorts of “respectable” people openly admit to using drugs and that it was harmless and the war on drugs was just racism and blah blah…. but I’m supposed to think a bunch of guys who are even MORE entitled than the average players in 1986 are all saying “Nay! Never shall drugs pass my lips for my body is a temple and plus also the kids!”. Hell no, especially now that, in order to excuse athletes “need” to smoke weed, they can all claim “I is in pain. Needs em drugz. I is sad victim.” like pain was invented in 1992 or something.

I’m willing to bet the list of players on drugs during games is really really long and I’m not gonna tie myself up in indignant knots because managers and FOs didn’t somehow put a stop to it. If they’d even tried it would have been a “Manfred evil control poor players I hate my dad!” shit show.

Let’s just make life easy. I am now 85% sure David Fletcher is coked up all game, wears velour track suits when he’s at home, and has a whole stable of hookers on call around the league cities. I still like to watch him play baseball. He’s not my friend or my son. He can do what ever he wants as long as I’m entertained. If he dies I’m sure there are other players I will enjoy. Bury him in one of those dope track suits. Onward. Upward. Huzzah!

RexFregosi
Super Member
2 years ago

The 86 Mets were good enough to get away with it. These guys were not.

And yes I’d see them in a whole other light if they had played in October

Fansince1971
Legend
2 years ago
Reply to  RexFregosi

I’m honestly feeling a bit frayed between this information (which will only get worse) and the lack of any real movement on the CBA. As a guy in his later 50s, I don’t want to waste my time on this crap. I’ve got better things to do and to spend my hard earned money on.

gitchogritchoffmypettis
Legend
Reply to  Fansince1971

That’s why we should all just get into horse racing. At least I know the horse isn’t knowingly taking all those drugs, nor is he beating his wife. Nor has a horse used his barely graduated high school while being given passing grades all his life so he won’t miss “the big game” brain to tell me how to vote or feel about political issues. Hell, horses die on the track, unlike athletes, who just try to convince us that the game they play is similar to going to war.

Horses bro. We can trust horses…. just not their owners or trainers…..

bradllee424
Trusted Member
2 years ago
Reply to  RexFregosi

This organization needs to get its act together. I have loved this team since the ’80’s, but right now it is really testing my faith.

Rallymanatee
Trusted Member
2 years ago
Reply to  Fansince1971

I used to naively think the Angels were a more wholesome team than others. It was just wishful thinking though.

RexFregosi
Super Member
2 years ago
Reply to  steelgolf

i don’t think the coaches should know what’s in their pockets, but coaches also notice even the slightest deviation in mechanics and delivery. really interesting this got by them and they could start an MLB game.

these guys were quite functional (in a “second-division pitching staff level of achievement and just good enought to waste Trout’s prime” sort of way)

Fansince1971
Legend
2 years ago
Reply to  RexFregosi

Reading this, I feel I have wasted my money for years on 4 season tickets to watch a bunch of doped up players. Just leaves me with a really bad taste.

BruinsAngelsKings
Trusted Member
2 years ago
Reply to  Fansince1971

The only difference now than 30+ years ago is that it is now confirmed as a result of the trial. The problems always been there.

Remember, this a sport that had greenies (amphetamines) available by the handful for decades in the clubhouse.

gitchogritchoffmypettis
Legend
Reply to  Fansince1971

I’d say to just go root for the Tigers and their pile of hungry youngsters or something…. but they’re probably all doped up too. The Angels are junkie, but they’re our junkies.

MarineLayer
Super Member
2 years ago

Speaking of umping, did any of you see how terrible the reffing was in the Super Bowl. To me, the nadir was handing a 75 yard TD to Cinn on the blown facemask takedown, and then trying to justify after the game with the benefit of reply. At the very least, the right thing to do come correct and admit the mistake.

To the benefit of the Rams, Cinn was handsy on our receivers the entire game, so I’m not sure why they started callling it at the end. Maybe they woke up from their drug stupor, as the Umps room at Angels Stadium is just down the road.

Not to complain, but just like a strike zone, the most important thing an ref or ump can do is to be consistent, which they clearly weren’t.

Furthermore, I don’t understand why the face mask was not a reviewable play. Football may have an even bigger problem than baseball getting it right.

red floyd
Legend
2 years ago
Reply to  MarineLayer

The refs were hanging with Snoop before the game.

2002heaven
Super Member
2 years ago

comment image
Since 2010 the Pirates have developed the following good players……..Gerrit Cole, Adam Frazier, Josh Bell, Starling Marte, Trevor Williams, Gregory Polanco.
The Angels since 2010…….Mike Trout, David Fletcher………….? Yet CTPG got bent over this logo back on Nov 30, 2021…They also developed Andrew McCutcheon….. This team also won 98 games the year after we did in 2014……

Twebur
Legend
2 years ago
Reply to  2002heaven

Jared Walsh told you to eat it….Kole Calhoun said hello. I’ll add theses 2 to the list and take away McCutcheon, 2005. Cole was a 1 #1…..how many from your Porch Pirate list were drafted early first round? Palonco was a 2009 singing, he’s off the list… closing the gap….Marte was singed by the Piretes in 2007, so he’s out……we are getting closer. .

Last edited 2 years ago by Twebur
Cowboy26
Legend
2 years ago
Reply to  Twebur

Shohei also says Kon’nichiwa.

And since we are including players that have since left their original organization, you forgot about Patrick Corbin & Garret Richards ( both drafted same draft as the GOAT) as well as C. J. Cron & Michael Clevinger.

Narrative Fail 😩

Twebur
Legend
2 years ago
Reply to  Cowboy26

Shhhhhhh…..we cant tell him Trout, Patrick Corbin & Garret Richards were drafted in ’09.

2002heaven
Super Member
2 years ago
Reply to  Cowboy26

In the Pirate’s case that would be everybody, since they’re a small market team that isn’t getting paid welfare every year like we are from the FSW TV cable deal. So they have to trade them or let them walk. That’s a hell of team though if they could hold on to most of those guys.
The thing is, imagine if we could/would do that too!
 💪  💪  👈 

Last edited 2 years ago by 2002heaven
Twebur
Legend
2 years ago
Reply to  2002heaven

“The Pirates, who play in a stadium financed by public money, not being able to make money off $200 million-plus in revenue sharing while only spending $72 million on their major league roster seems to be an intractable mathematical problem.”

https://www.sbnation.com/2019/10/30/20938397/bob-nutting-pittsburgh-pirates

CHEAP AND EVIL ARTE, SAY HELLO TO CHEAP NUTT

Last edited 2 years ago by Twebur
gitchogritchoffmypettis
Legend
Reply to  2002heaven

Yes Tooty. Pirates no get welfare. Good Tooty. Good thoughts.

gitchogritchoffmypettis
Legend
Reply to  2002heaven

Oh my gawd. PLEASE go root for the Pirates! I beg you. You will be so happy there and Yinzers love guys like you so much! Please please please for the love of gawd please go root for an awesome team with a great owner, the Pirates.

Jeff Joiner
Editor
Legend
2 years ago

Turk’s Teeth brought up an interesting point that the Angels bring in a ton of pitchers with injury histories on one year deals in our admin chat.

Those would be the exact type of guys who have been recently prescribed pain pills and are most likely to try to stay on the hill to earn that next contract. In short, a recipe for pill abuse. (This part is mine).

Fansince1971
Legend
2 years ago
Reply to  Jeff Joiner

This is a great point! The dumpster diving likely provided lots of Kay customers.

gitchogritchoffmypettis
Legend
Reply to  Jeff Joiner

This is likely.

RexFregosi
Super Member
2 years ago

Breaking – we had a whole staff of guys pitching high on oxy – no wonder no playoffs since 2014

ffs

Fansince1971
Legend
2 years ago
Reply to  RexFregosi

Getting harder and harder to support these guys.

Twebur
Legend
2 years ago
Reply to  RexFregosi

Getting the Oxy from the Umpire Room also explains why the Umps always appear to be high while calling games……..not sure why they seem to screw us more? Don’t you want your dealer to like you?

Jim Atkins
Super Member
2 years ago
Reply to  Twebur

Well, we finally have an explanation for Angel Hernandez.

MarineLayer
Super Member
2 years ago
Reply to  Jim Atkins

The aptly named “Angel” Hernandez.

Marcotor
Trusted Member
2 years ago
Reply to  Twebur

It’s the International Conspiracy of Umpires to Only Screw the Angels.

Go to ANY other fan site, with knowledgeable fans and you will discover they all believe the umps are out to screw only their team. If you want a good laugh, check out Seattle (!) or NYY

TheCheetah
Member
2 years ago
Reply to  RexFregosi

https://apnews.com/article/mlb-sports-entertainment-texas-baseball-301927ae541c3d2403016d32eb76a80d

Pitchers Matt Harvey, Mike Morin and Cam Bedrosian and first baseman C.J. Cron played for the Angels during the years federal prosecutors say Eric Prescott Kay obtained drugs for players. Kay faces drug distribution and conspiracy charges.

RexFregosi
Super Member
2 years ago
Reply to  TheCheetah

that’s just today.

Makes me wonder why we kept Richards, Skaggs, Heaney but Shoey is the one we let walk?!?

Of course – all that matters is the Arm – nothing else.

Fansince1971
Legend
2 years ago
Reply to  RexFregosi

We don’t know if the front office knew the link between G Rich, Skaggs and Heandog do we?

FungoAle
Legend
2 years ago
Reply to  Fansince1971

We suspecting the FO knew about all the pill-popping? Fans (me) should be upset that Skaggs, loosey-goosey, pitched as uneven as he did versus diving in on the FO.

All makes sense now why he kept underperforming when he appeared to have the stuff to breakout. Good ol’ Mr. “Life-of-the Party” Skaggs. Knew from the beginning, guys like Richards and Heaney knew Tyler’s dirty secrets. The look on their faces at his wake said it all. I’m sure Richards got to enjoy the percocet parade during his grueling rehab(s), maybe he flipped one to Tyler. Simply, Tyler is victim of his own demise and was caught playing with fire. Period. The name dragging unnecessary and is made for TMZ TV.

gitchogritchoffmypettis
Legend
Reply to  FungoAle

All I know is I want to watch THE ENTIRE REST OF THE MLBPA chew their own tongues to try not to say anything sanctimonious about this. As soon as any of these ex-Angels pitchers gets thrown under the bus as some kind of “special problem” these guys are gonna turn around and start listing name after name of players they’ve snorted a line with.

As soon as some douche pulls a “Clevinger” and spouts off about how disgusted he is with Richards or Heaney or Harvey there will be a thunderclap heard round the nation…. it will be the sound of 1000 assholes clenching all at once as all the drugged up players suddenly get worry.

Fansince1971
Legend
2 years ago

$1,700 to Kay from Richards? Birthday present for his buddy? Such a bad look.

Mikeal1st
Trusted Member
2 years ago

Parity in baseball? Matt Snyder doesn’t bring up tanking, I think teams trying to trade away all of their players worth anything in hopes of having an incredibly strong (low paid) farm system and rookie players is a very strong indication that there is an imbalance in baseball. Looking at the list of teams that have had success, the great majority of small market teams that have had success are because of tanking. My thought is not only a salary cap, but also a salary floor. What do you think?

gitchogritchoffmypettis
Legend
Reply to  Mikeal1st

Oh yeah. I love the idea of an NFL style salary cap. But You’d also need a pretty high salary floor and no revenue sharing that doesn’t go to players salaries. But I’d really enjoy watching MLB teams “manage the cap” and see more players move around. Also, having no big financial difference between Cleveland and New York would be huge.

steelgolf
Super Member
2 years ago

It is 2022 and the lawsuit over players not being paid during spring training was filed in 2014!!! It is a long, slooooowwwww, drawn out process.
Garret Richards made Venmo payments to Kay? Well, that is not a good look for Richards, Kay, or The Angels organization.

Fleckstein
Trusted Member
2 years ago

Pretty weak sauce to say they are trainees when teams charge fans for game attendance during spring training. Hope the MiLB players win that battle resoundingly.

AnAngelsFan
Super Member
2 years ago
Reply to  Fleckstein

I might buy the argument for free agent Spring Training invitees, but not when a player is locked to a particular team by draft or contract. The former are basically job applicants, but the latter were acquired through the expenditure of resources (money + draft slot) and represent the team trying to maximize value from its expenditures.

matthiasstephan
Super Member
2 years ago
Reply to  AnAngelsFan

Exactly. If this were open tryouts, sure. But to call Spring Training invites ‘trainees’ and not want to treat them as employees is nonsense.

I don’t know what insulation they had in 2014, based on the MLB’s structure of purchasing contracts etc, but in the new league position in which they can control vast scopes of who has a team, where, and who gets to play there …

Jim Atkins
Super Member
2 years ago
Reply to  AnAngelsFan

If the organization requires the presence of those persons for their continued employment, then they should be paid. Period.

gitchogritchoffmypettis
Legend
Reply to  Jim Atkins

yup. in a nut shell.

Jeff Joiner
Editor
Legend
2 years ago
Reply to  Jim Atkins

Exactly.

Jeff Joiner
Editor
Legend
2 years ago
Reply to  Fleckstein

Tickets, TV money, radio money. I know this isn’t on par with MLB level revenue, but paying these guys $500-$1000 per week could be easily covered.